Better Career - Kobe from 05-12 vs. Lebron from 05-12

[WockaVodka]

Lets say we eliminate everything before 2005 which would be everything Kobe did with Shaq, would you still say Kobe had a better career than Lebron did? Of course, in this case we would also remove Lebron's rookie season.

[Freedom Kid7]

I'd actually say Kobe still has the best career, even post-Shaq
:confusedshrug:

[MiamiThrice]

LeBron James

It's not even ****ing close either. As much shit as LeBron gets for having "stacked teams" LeBron had to do more in his 2012 playoff run than Kobe did in either 09 or 10. The Heat are great on paper, but when you actually watch them play they are entirely dependant on LeBrons talents both offensively and defensively. This is especially the case when Wade is out/injured as he was for nearly all of the postseason.

Kobe had by far the most stacked teams when he won even without Shaq. In the Kobe era(both Shaq and Gasol) the Lakers have always won because of their dominant frontcourt, not because of Kobe.

Then we compare their actual on court play. Kobe has a more diverse scoring arsenal, but LeBron is just more dominant and efficient which ultimately is what it comes down to. Kobes defensive prime was the Shaq titles, so that's canceled out. LeBron easily wins on defense, rebounding, playmaking, scoring inside the paint.

More MVPs.

I don't even need to keep going. Anyone who truly understands basketball can see this is obvious.

[Heavincent]

LeBron James

It's not even ****ing close either. As much shit as LeBron gets for having "stacked teams" LeBron had to do more in his 2012 playoff run than Kobe did in either 09 or 10. The Heat are great on paper, but when you actually watch them play they are entirely dependant on LeBrons talents both offensively and defensively. This is especially the case when Wade is out/injured as he was for nearly all of the postseason.

Kobe had by far the most stacked teams when he won even without Shaq. In the Kobe era(both Shaq and Gasol) the Lakers have always won because of their dominant frontcourt, not because of Kobe.

Then we compare their actual on court play. Kobe has a more diverse scoring arsenal, but LeBron is just more dominant and efficient which ultimately is what it comes down to. Kobes defensive prime was the Shaq titles, so that's canceled out. LeBron easily wins on defense, rebounding, playmaking, scoring inside the paint.

More MVPs.

I don't even need to keep going. Anyone who truly understands basketball can see this is obvious.

http://www.orangepower.com/attachments/asian_man_lol_gif-gif.11969/

[MiamiThrice]

http://www.orangepower.com/attachments/asian_man_lol_gif-gif.11969/

Heavincent with a generic meme/smiley/one liner post containing no basketball substance whatsoever. Can anyone really say their surprised? :oldlol: I predict we'll see several more from him before this thread is over.

Inb4 Heavincent makes no posts actually bringing up valid points pertaining to the topic

[swag2011]

hmmm. It's debatable.

Kobe.
28/5/5 R
29/5/5 PS
MVP
2FMVP/2Rings/3Finals
7x 1st team all-nba
6x 1st all-defense
2x scoring champ
2 Gold Medals

I don't feel like doing Lebron's stats too but i know it's close

[KOBEtherealKing]

LeBron James

It's not even ****ing close either. As much shit as LeBron gets for having "stacked teams" LeBron had to do more in his 2012 playoff run than Kobe did in either 09 or 10. The Heat are great on paper, but when you actually watch them play they are entirely dependant on LeBrons talents both offensively and defensively. This is especially the case when Wade is out/injured as he was for nearly all of the postseason.

Kobe had by far the most stacked teams when he won even without Shaq. In the Kobe era(both Shaq and Gasol) the Lakers have always won because of their dominant frontcourt, not because of Kobe.

Then we compare their actual on court play. Kobe has a more diverse scoring arsenal, but LeBron is just more dominant and efficient which ultimately is what it comes down to. Kobes defensive prime was the Shaq titles, so that's canceled out. LeBron easily wins on defense, rebounding, playmaking, scoring inside the paint.

More MVPs.

I don't even need to keep going. Anyone who truly understands basketball can see this is obvious.



Just continuing the trend.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9x58eZVpT1rsw1yf.gif

[Heavincent]

Heavincent with a generic meme/smiley/one liner post containing no basketball substance whatsoever. Can anyone really say their surprised? :oldlol: I predict we'll see several more from him before this thread is over.

Inb4 Heavincent makes no posts actually bringing up valid points pertaining to the topic

Act like a retard and you're gonna get one-liners in return. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

[LongLiveTheKing]

http://www.orangepower.com/attachments/asian_man_lol_gif-gif.11969/
Lebron 3 MVPs 1 Chip, 0 First round exits, 3 Finals Appearances, horrible 2011 Finals
Kobe 1 MVP 2 Chips, 2 First round exits, 3 Appearances, 3 shots attempted in a Game 7, and lose 3-1 lead.
Lebron was more efficient
Lebron had a better career from those years

[BlackVVaves]

Why would you remove the years he played with Shaq?

2001 and 2003 were two very good years for Kobe. 2001 because of his postseason performance, 2003 because if not for him carrying the Lakers offense when Shaq was overweight, injured, and disinterested, the Lakers were on their way to missing the playoffs.

2002 was a solid year as well for Kobe, though not as impressive as 2001 or 2003.

If you're going to cite the sidekick thing, which I'm sure you will, then I cam understand everything up until and including 2000 being removed, astericked, ect. Shaq was THE reason why the Lakers won a ring that year, and any Kobe stan denying that should go take a look of that entire season and post season for proof.

But the Lakers don't win in 2001 or 2002 without Kobe, period, and they miss the playoffs if he wasn't on that team in 2003.

[MiamiThrice]

hmmm. It's debatable.

Kobe.
28/5/5 R
29/5/5 PS
MVP
2FMVP/2Rings/3Finals
7x 1st team all-nba
6x 1st all-defense
2x scoring champ
2 Gold Medals

I don't feel like doing Lebron's stats too but i know it's close

LeBron James
Regular Season: 28.6 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.0 APG
Postseason: 28.5 PPG 8.7 RPG 6.7 APG
3 Time MVP(should have been 4 in a row, Rose was undeserving)
1 Finals MVP/1 Ring/3 Finals
6x All NBA 1st Team
2 x All NBA2nd Team

A lot of Kobes awards in recent years(such as All defense) have been given out purely on reputation as well. LeBron James has been the clear cut best player in basketball for around 5 years now.

[KG215]

Act like a retard and you're gonna get one-liners in return. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

I know you'll say Kobe has been better, but surely you agree, by looking at this timeframe, it's very close. Right?

[Heavincent]

How's he acting like a retard? While I wouldn't say "LeBron and it's not even close" he does have a case for having a better 2005-2012 career than Kobe. At the very least it's very close.


It's not even ****ing close either. As much shit as LeBron gets for having "stacked teams" LeBron had to do more in his 2012 playoff run than Kobe did in either 09 or 10


Kobe had by far the most stacked teams when he won even without Shaq. In the Kobe era(both Shaq and Gasol) the Lakers have always won because of their dominant frontcourt, not because of Kobe.

That's how buddy. Those are things only a retarded Lebron/Heat homer would say. I always see you getting mad at Kobe homers for saying dumb shit. So at least be consistent pal.

[KG215]

That's how buddy. Those are things only a retarded Lebron/Heat homer would say. I always see you getting mad at Kobe homers for saying dumb shit. So at least be consistent pal.

Yeah, that's why I edited my post. Saying it's LeBron by far is dumb in my opinion, too. Not sure who I'd give the edge to but it's definitely debatable.

Surely you will acknowledge that, right?

[daily]

Why would you remove the years he played with Shaq?

2001 and 2003 were two very good years for Kobe. 2001 because of his postseason performance, 2003 because if not for him carrying the Lakers offense when Shaq was overweight, injured, and disinterested, the Lakers were on their way to missing the playoffs.

2002 was a solid year as well for Kobe, though not as impressive as 2001 or 2003.

If you're going to cite the sidekick thing, which I'm sure you will, then I cam understand everything up until and including 2000 being removed, astericked, ect. Shaq was THE reason why the Lakers won a ring that year, and any Kobe stan denying that should go take a look of that entire season and post season for proof.

But the Lakers don't win in 2001 or 2002 without Kobe, period, and they miss the playoffs if he wasn't on that team in 2003.This

If you're going to compare careers compare careers, don't pick and choose certain years that mold to an agenda

[Heavincent]

Yeah, that's why I edited my post. Saying it's LeBron by far is dumb in my opinion, too. Not sure who I'd give the edge to but it's definitely debatable.

Surely you will acknowledge that, right?

Sure.

But I think that Kobe's 01 and 02 titles are a lot more valuable than some of the dipshits on ISH would want you to believe, so cutting his career in half like that brings him down a lot.

[Riley Martin]

Better career: Kobe
Better peak level of play: LeBron

[avonbarksdale]

are we really arguing this

kobe won 2 rings as the man in 3 trys

lebron won 1 ring with 2 legitimate superstars after losing one with them and one as the man

was lebron a more dominant and better player? yes, but his career clearly isn't better, more mvps ok but kobe won two championships straight and lebron won one, that is more important than any regular season accolades

[TheeBeast]

Better career: Kobe
Better peak level of play: LeBron

Sounds about right. Lebron obviously had better all around stats but that doesn't take away the fact that Kobe was the best, most explosive scorer leading his team to winning 2/3 finals while Lebron only won 1/3.

[MiamiThrice]

This

If you're going to compare careers compare careers, don't pick and choose certain years that mold to an agenda

It's not molding to an agenda. Its a valid question. Everyone has Kobe higher on the all-time list if you include full careers, this guy wants to see if he's still higher excluding those years.

It's funny how insecure the Kobe fans get about the topic question because deep down they know the answer is LeBron , but they will never admit it.



That's how buddy. Those are things only a retarded Lebron/Heat homer would say. I always see you getting mad at Kobe homers for saying dumb shit. So at least be consistent pal.

Clearly your knowledge of basketball is limited and the only thing you can understand is "big names" like DWYANE WADE, and CHRIS BOSH.

Pau Gasol was much more impressive than either Wade or Bosh in both of LAs championship runs. The Lakers had a tremendous team full of contributing players and an amazing frontcourt. In 2009 and 2010, there was not a single NBA team that had the ability to match up against prime Pau Gasol, prime Lamar Odom,and Andrew Bynum. These guys were all long, and dominant figures which assured LA would win the ever important rebounding battle. The role players on those teams were also great. Trevor Ariza, Shannon Brown, Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar. These were guys that knew their role and exceled at it. People laugh at those players now, but a few years ago they were valuable commodities.

Miami had probably the worst bigmen of any NBA team in a LONGGGG time. Winning the battle in the paint is the key to winning basketball games. LeBron took this upon himself and played primarily Power Forward in the postseason in which he dominated like never before. Had Miami continue to start the notso physical Chris Bosh and Ronny Turiaf/Joel Anthony they do not win it all.

I'd consider LeBron a bigman before Bosh. Guy plays on the perimeter like no other and shoots jumpers all day.

Now time to post your smiley/meme/one liner. We all know it's the only thing your capable of. You've probably never even played basketball.

[pauk]

LeBron James

It's not even ****ing close either. As much shit as LeBron gets for having "stacked teams" LeBron had to do more in his 2012 playoff run than Kobe did in either 09 or 10. The Heat are great on paper, but when you actually watch them play they are entirely dependant on LeBrons talents both offensively and defensively. This is especially the case when Wade is out/injured as he was for nearly all of the postseason.

Kobe had by far the most stacked teams when he won even without Shaq. In the Kobe era(both Shaq and Gasol) the Lakers have always won because of their dominant frontcourt, not because of Kobe.

Then we compare their actual on court play. Kobe has a more diverse scoring arsenal, but LeBron is just more dominant and efficient which ultimately is what it comes down to. Kobes defensive prime was the Shaq titles, so that's canceled out. LeBron easily wins on defense, rebounding, playmaking, scoring inside the paint.

More MVPs.

I don't even need to keep going. Anyone who truly understands basketball can see this is obvious.

Very well said.

[longtime lurker]

LeBron James
Regular Season: 28.6 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.0 APG
Postseason: 28.5 PPG 8.7 RPG 6.7 APG
3 Time MVP(should have been 4 in a row, Rose was undeserving)
1 Finals MVP/1 Ring/3 Finals
6x All NBA 1st Team
2 x All NBA2nd Team

A lot of Kobes awards in recent years(such as All defense) have been given out purely on reputation as well. LeBron James has been the clear cut best player in basketball for around 5 years now.

I love how you don't bother to post Lebron's all defensive team selections. Also if by cutting out half of Kobe's career and he's still close to Lebron doesn't including the other half mean that he's clearly a better player than Lebron at the moment?

[shaq2000]

Better career: Kobe
Better peak level of play: LeBron

This but I'd change it to

better career: Kobe
better overall talent: LeBron
better peak: Kobe

due to Kobe being the better volume scorer and, imo, better defender peak-to-peak. But LeBron is more consistent and a better facilitator.

[MiamiThrice]

I love how you don't bother to post Lebron's all defensive team selections. Also if by cutting out half of Kobe's career and he's still close to Lebron doesn't including the other half mean that he's clearly a better player than Lebron at the moment?

Didn't see them as important when Kobe gets on simply because of reputation, especially the past few years. Since 2005 LeBron has been unquestionably the better defender. These days Kobe is relegated to being that guy who guards the shooter in the corner.

Kobes defensive prime was during the threepeat where he would shut guys down. Even when you include that I'd still go with LeBron because he has the ability to shut down ANY position on top of being one of the best help defenders the game has ever seen. The LeBron chasedown block is famous for a reason. And LeBron does all this WHILE shouldering the offensive load. His endurance is crazy. Kobe was best defensively then because of youth, but more importantly because he didn't have to exert as much energy offensively because Shaq was the main option. Imagine if LeBron hada guy like 00 Shaq and focused primarily on defense. Dear god.

Comparing their defensive game since 2005? Not even close. Has Kobe ever gotten as many votes for Defensive Player of the Year as LeBron? He only makes the teams because of a reputation given to him by the media.

[pauk]

Better career: Kobe
Better peak level of play: LeBron

How did he have a better career? The only thing he got more is that 1 championship, 1 fmvp.... which doesnt overcome 1 much more impressive championship run by Lebron accompanied with 3 mvps and better level of play (domination, team impact, stats, productions, milestones, records)

[Doranku]

35 ppg, 81 points, 62 in 3 against the Western Conference Champs, 2 NBA Championships, 2 Finals MVPs, 1 MVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 NBA Championship*, 1 NBA Finals MVP*, 3 NBA MVP (1*)

[Sleu27]

Didn't see them as important when Kobe gets on simply because of reputation, especially the past few years. Since 2005 LeBron has been unquestionably the better defender. These days Kobe is relegated to being that guy who guards the shooter in the corner.

Kobes defensive prime was during the threepeat where he would shut guys down. Even when you include that I'd still go with LeBron because he has the ability to shut down ANY position on top of being one of the best help defenders the game has ever seen. The LeBron chasedown block is famous for a reason. And LeBron does all this WHILE shouldering the offensive load. His endurance is crazy. Kobe was best defensively then because of youth, but more importantly because he didn't have to exert as much energy offensively because Shaq was the main option. Imagine if LeBron hada guy like 00 Shaq and focused primarily on defense. Dear god.

Comparing their defensive game since 2005? Not even close. Has Kobe ever gotten as many votes for Defensive Player of the Year as LeBron? He only makes the teams because of a reputation given to him by the media.



http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/saes329/Didnt-read-lol_o_141041.gif

[longtime lurker]

Didn't see them as important when Kobe gets on simply because of reputation, especially the past few years. Since 2005 LeBron has been unquestionably the better defender. These days Kobe is relegated to being that guy who guards the shooter in the corner.

Kobes defensive prime was during the threepeat where he would shut guys down. Even when you include that I'd still go with LeBron because he has the ability to shut down ANY position on top of being one of the best help defenders the game has ever seen. The LeBron chasedown block is famous for a reason.

Comparing their defensive game since 2005? Not even close. Has Kobe ever gotten as many votes for Defensive Player of the Year as LeBron? He only makes the teams because of a reputation given to him by the media.

:facepalm except the media doesn't vote for all defensive teams...why leave it out? Lebron James is an overrated defender he can't shut down any position this is a myth. Somehow the "media" is wrong when it comes to voting defensive teams, but they become legit when voting defensive player of the year and MVP....makes sense actually no that's just your dumbass agenda

[longtime lurker]

How did he have a better career? The only thing he got more is that 1 championship, 1 fmvp.... which doesnt overcome 1 much more impressive championship run by Lebron accompanied with 3 mvps and better level of play (domination, team impact, stats, productions, milestones, records)

3 straight finals, 2 for 3 in the finals, dominance, scoring records, etc. Personally I think MVP voting is an absolute joke.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe from 05-12

29/5/5 average
30/6/5 playoff average
3 straight finals
2 straight rings
7 straight 1st team all nba's
6 straight 1st team all defense'a
2 straight finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 asg mvps


lebron

27/7/7 average
28/7/7 playoff average
3 finals
1 title
6 1st team all nba's
4 1st team all d's
1 finals mvp
3 season mvps
2 asg mvps



hmmmmmm

tough choice... wait no it isnt


kobe

[pauk]

3 straight finals, 2 for 3 in the finals, dominance, scoring records, etc. Personally I think MVP voting is an absolute joke.

Ofcourse you think MVP (which is the most significant award towards telling how much impact the player did inflict upon his team due to his talent, skills, productions, domination, leadership etc.) is an absolute joke... especially when Kobe has only one...

[pauk]

One more thing, comparing a guys career where he was somewhere 20-27 to Kobes best years 26-33 personally i think is unfair to Lebron, but he amusingly enough had a somewhat better career anyways....

A more fair comparasant would be Kobes first 8-9 years compared to Lebron... because thats all Lebron has played afterall... But then again, the debate would be very one sided... so i understand the cherrypicked years for Kobe...

[kennethgriffin]

kobe from 05-12

29/5/5 average
30/6/5 playoff average
3 straight finals
2 straight rings
7 straight 1st team all nba's
6 straight 1st team all defense'a
2 straight finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 asg mvps


lebron

27/7/7 average
28/7/7 playoff average
3 finals
1 title
6 1st team all nba's
4 1st team all d's
1 finals mvp
3 season mvps
2 asg mvps



half of kobes career is top 10 all time

literally 05-12 is better than hakeem

[MiamiThrice]

One more thing, comparing a guys career where he was somewhere 20-27 to Kobes best years 26-33 personally i think is unfair to Lebron, but he amusingly enough had a somewhat better career anyways....

A more fair comparasant would be Kobes first 8-9 years compared to Lebron... because thats all Lebron has played afterall... But then again, the debate would be very one sided... so i understand the cherrypicked years for Kobe...

Good post bro. It just tells you how truly special LeBron is. For a high school kid to come in and dominate immediately....the league has never seen anything like it.

You can never win with the Kobe fans. Unless the question is skewed to their own agenda, they will always cry.

[kennethgriffin]

Good post bro. It just tells you how truly special LeBron is. For a high school kid to come in and dominate immediately....the league has never seen anything like it.

You can never win with the Kobe fans. Unless the question is skewed to their own agenda, they will always cry.
no bro

stupid post bro

pauk is tryng to say its unfair for us to compare kobe with 3 MOTHER *FU*CKING titles and multiple 1st team/both ends stripped away to lebron

unfair? jesus h fu*cking christ... unfair is comparing half of one guys career to another guys full career


and no lebrons career since 05 isnt "somewhat better"

da fuq

kobe from 05-12

29/5/5 average
30/6/5 playoff average
3 straight finals
2 straight rings
7 straight 1st team all nba's
6 straight 1st team all defense's
2 straight finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 asg mvps


lebron

27/7/7 average
28/7/7 playoff average
3 finals
1 title
6 1st team all nba's
4 1st team all d's
1 finals mvp
3 season mvps
2 asg mvps

[Sleu27]

kobes peak is better

[MiamiThrice]

no bro

stupid post bro

pauk is tryng to say its unfair for us to compare kobe with 3 MOTHER *FU*CKING titles and multiple 1st team/both ends stripped away to lebron

unfair? jesus h fu*cking christ... unfair is comparing half of one guys career to another guys full career


and no lebrons career since 05 isnt "somewhat better"

da fuq

kobe from 05-12

29/5/5 average
30/6/5 playoff average
3 straight finals
2 straight rings
7 straight 1st team all nba's
6 straight 1st team all defense's
2 straight finals mvps
1 season mvp
3 asg mvps


lebron

27/7/7 average
28/7/7 playoff average
3 finals
1 title
6 1st team all nba's
4 1st team all d's
1 finals mvp
3 season mvps
2 asg mvps

You can glorify media awards all you want(LOL allstar game MVPs?), but what it comes down to is LeBron is flat out better on the court. He impacts the game more than Kobe does. He plays primary ball handler for his team, best rebounder, playmaker, top scorer, defensive specialist. He does it all for his team. Kobe was good, but his only real responsibility was being the top scorer with high volume shooting. He had other guys to dominate the boards, dominate the paint, Phil jackson to orchestrate the triangle offense. LeBron had to run an offense, dominate the paint through rebounding and interior scorer, AND have the responsibility of guarding the other teams top scorer.

LeBron puts up BETTER numbers on BETTER percentages.

Kobe has more rings, but that is a team accomplishment and Kobe has ALWAYS had the better supporting cast. LeBrons playoff run this year trumps any of Kobes.

Good luck with those allstar game MVPs, Ill take the guy that can truly carry a franchise and isn't the beneficiary of having great team time after time. Any time Kobes team comes up short, the Lakers find a huge steal. When LeBron comes up short, he simply has to get better. And he has.

[KOBE143]

Kobe and its not even close..

[swag2011]

You can glorify media awards all you want(LOL allstar game MVPs?), but what it comes down to is LeBron is flat out better on the court. He impacts the game more than Kobe does. He plays primary ball handler for his team, best rebounder, playmaker, top scorer, defensive specialist. He does it all for his team. Kobe was good, but his only real responsibility was being the top scorer with high volume shooting. He had other guys to dominate the boards, dominate the paint, Phil jackson to orchestrate the triangle offense. LeBron had to run an offense, dominate the paint through rebounding and interior scorer, AND have the responsibility of guarding the other teams top scorer.

LeBron puts up BETTER numbers on BETTER percentages.

Kobe has more rings, but that is a team accomplishment and Kobe has ALWAYS had the better supporting cast. LeBrons playoff run this year trumps any of Kobes.

Good luck with those allstar game MVPs, Ill take the guy that can truly carry a franchise and isn't the beneficiary of having great team time after time. Any time Kobes team comes up short, the Lakers find a huge steal. When LeBron comes up short, he simply has to get better. And he has.

Isn't the MVP award a "media award"? And let's not act like his playoff run was completely better than any of Kobe's. In 09, Kobe put up 30/5/5 on 45% shooting. In 01, Kobe put up 29/7/6 on .469% shooting. Compare that to this year for Lebron who put up 30/9/5 on 50% shooting. Clearly not that far apart.

IMO, i think Lebron's playoff run this past year gets hyped up so much because he finally got over that hump and won a ring. Not saying he wasn't amazing because he was, but keep it real.

[Chrono90]

Kobe and its not even close..

I agree its Kobe for sure. But Lebron has an argument in his own rights cause of his stats and season mvps and one title.

But at the end of the day, if we're talking about career from 05 to 12, it's got to be Kobe.

[swag2011]

Ofcourse you think MVP (which is the most significant award towards telling how much impact the player did inflict upon his team due to his talent, skills, productions, domination, leadership etc.) is an absolute joke... especially when Kobe has only one...

Well it is, considering Shaq has only 1 MVP award as well. isn't Shaq considered to be "most dominant player ever"? Don't you Kobe haters say he had the most impact, defensive attention, did so much for the 3 peat teams back in the early 00s? How can one player that dominates the game so much only have 1 MVP award?

[Chrono90]

You can glorify media awards all you want(LOL allstar game MVPs?), but what it comes down to is LeBron is flat out better on the court. He impacts the game more than Kobe does. He plays primary ball handler for his team, best rebounder, playmaker, top scorer, defensive specialist. He does it all for his team. Kobe was good, but his only real responsibility was being the top scorer with high volume shooting. He had other guys to dominate the boards, dominate the paint, Phil jackson to orchestrate the triangle offense. LeBron had to run an offense, dominate the paint through rebounding and interior scorer, AND have the responsibility of guarding the other teams top scorer.

LeBron puts up BETTER numbers on BETTER percentages.

Kobe has more rings, but that is a team accomplishment and Kobe has ALWAYS had the better supporting cast. LeBrons playoff run this year trumps any of Kobes.

Good luck with those allstar game MVPs, Ill take the guy that can truly carry a franchise and isn't the beneficiary of having great team time after time. Any time Kobes team comes up short, the Lakers find a huge steal. When LeBron comes up short, he simply has to get better. And he has.


If we're talking about career, it's included with team success. If we're talking about individual talent, we can't bring teammates into it. But we're talking about career. I don't think good teammate is an argument. And plus, Lebron flop teams to Miami to team with Wade and Bosh both in their primes. It goes for both.

[kennethgriffin]

You can glorify media awards all you want(LOL allstar game MVPs?), but what it comes down to is LeBron is flat out better on the court. He impacts the game more than Kobe does. He plays primary ball handler for his team, best rebounder, playmaker, top scorer, defensive specialist. He does it all for his team. Kobe was good, but his only real responsibility was being the top scorer with high volume shooting. He had other guys to dominate the boards, dominate the paint, Phil jackson to orchestrate the triangle offense. LeBron had to run an offense, dominate the paint through rebounding and interior scorer, AND have the responsibility of guarding the other teams top scorer.

LeBron puts up BETTER numbers on BETTER percentages.

Kobe has more rings, but that is a team accomplishment and Kobe has ALWAYS had the better supporting cast. LeBrons playoff run this year trumps any of Kobes.

Good luck with those allstar game MVPs, Ill take the guy that can truly carry a franchise and isn't the beneficiary of having great team time after time. Any time Kobes team comes up short, the Lakers find a huge steal. When LeBron comes up short, he simply has to get better. And he has.


so because he is taller, bigger, faster and stronger hes better?

no...

i listed what kobe did from 2005-2012

half his career even with all his accomplishments gone is still a top 10 all time player...

its not even close.

i dont get why people think their opinion is the end all be all

how about instead of listing your own opinion. list other legends, coaches and the things both guys did

kobe will always be a better player than lebron all time. know why?

because kobe has "it"... whatever "it" is... jordan had it... kobe has it... lebron doesnt

you see it in their eyes at the end of games.

lebron might have gotten his 0.5 asterisk title on a ring chasing team in a lockout year. but that doesnt make him on kobe or jordans level

even his best buddy wade said it... he aint there yet. he has a long way to go

[RazorBaLade]

Ofcourse you think MVP (which is the most significant award towards telling how much impact the player did inflict upon his team due to his talent, skills, productions, domination, leadership etc.) is an absolute joke... especially when Kobe has only one...

and of course you value mvps because lebron was in the right situation to get them and kobe wasnnt and has less

so what does it prove

[ronron15]

It's not by a landslide.

But it goes to Kobe.

[Ruutu]

How is Kobe peak better ? He has never been better overall player than Lebron!
But those Kobe vs Lebron threads dont work cos Kobe fans gonna say Kobe is the best and vice versa.
People who are just fans of the game of basketball know who better player is!

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Pau Gasol + lost years with no defense playing scrubs = "better supporting cast" than elite defensive teams and later 2 all stars

:roll:

[MiamiThrice]

If we're talking about career, it's included with team success. If we're talking about individual talent, we can't bring teammates into it. But we're talking about career. I don't think good teammate is an argument. And plus, Lebron flop teams to Miami to team with Wade and Bosh both in their primes. It goes for both.

I'm not going to credit Kobe for having better teammates when comparin two players. Flip the players and the Lakers become that much more deadly while Cleveland loses in the first round with Kobe demanding a trade. Can you imagine how Kobe would act if he had to endure a starting lineup of Sasha Pavlovic, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Illgauskas? That shit is comparable to Kobes first round exit teams. Kobe wouldn't be able to handle that shit like LeBron did(getting that group to the Finals).


Isn't the MVP award a "media award"? And let's not act like his playoff run was completely better than any of Kobe's. In 09, Kobe put up 30/5/5 on 45% shooting. In 01, Kobe put up 29/7/6 on .469% shooting. Compare that to this year for Lebron who put up 30/9/5 on 50% shooting. Clearly not that far apart.

IMO, i think Lebron's playoff run this past year gets hyped up so much because he finally got over that hump and won a ring. Not saying he wasn't amazing because he was, but keep it real.

Uhhh 30/9/5 on 50% shooting is FAR better than any of Kobes.... Not to mention along with elite defense and carrying the team through adversity. People counted them out vs Indiana, and Boston, and LeBron shut everyone the **** up with dominant performances. The Heat were underdogs in the Finals as well.

The MVP is something that is a good indicator of who owned the season. Sometimes it's right. Sometimes it's wrong. For the past 4 years ago LeBron has deserved the MVP every year. (And he got it every year except 2011 where they gave it to Rose). NBA Win shares is a good stat of who the most valuable to their team is. Here is a list of the league leaders he past few years.

http://oi49.tinypic.com/33k39mq.jpg

As you can see even with supposedly "stacked" teams in Miami, LeBron easily leads the league just as he did in Cleveland. This stat generates approximately how many wins each player brings to their team and it's no surprise the real MVP is usually the one who leads this stat. My only disagreement is that Shaq over Garnett in 2005. Otherwise it looks great

http://oi46.tinypic.com/25a7yoh.jpg

Here are the playoff leaders in win shares the past few years. Notice LeBron has the highest of anyone since 2005? Oh and look at that! Looks like Bill James has Pau Gasol as making more of an impact than Kobe in the 2010 Finals! The win stat formula recognizes that LA won because of their dominant post play, not the shot chucking guard.


so because he is taller, bigger, faster and stronger hes better?


That combined with superior basketball abilities, yes.

[eliteballer]

If LeBron played in the West he never would have made it out of the first round:coleman:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm not going to credit Kobe for having better teammates when comparin two players. Flip the players and the Lakers become that much more deadly while Cleveland loses in the first round with Kobe demanding a trade. Can you imagine how Kobe would act if he had to endure a starting lineup of Sasha Pavlovic, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Illgauskas? That shit is comparable to Kobes first round exit teams. Kobe wouldn't be able to handle that shit like LeBron did(getting that group to the Finals).

Yeah man Kobe would rage if he was surrounded by the 4th best defensive team in the league and didn't have to face a team with a winning record until he got to the Conference Finals. The delusion is strong with this one.

:applause:

[MiamiThrice]

If LeBron played in the West he never would have made it out of the first round:coleman:

Proof?

LeBron is the one player in the league that him alone can make any team relevant. Put him on literally any ****ing team and that team becomes deadly. Even the Bobcats. If you put LeBron on the current Bobcats they immediately become a Top 3 seed with no other additions.

[MiamiThrice]

Yeah man Kobe would rage if he was surrounded by the 4th best defensive team in the league and didn't have to face a team with a winning record until he got to the Conference Finals. The delusion is strong with this one.

:applause:

Number of times LeBrons lost in the first round: 0

Number of playoff series Kobe has won without Shaq/Gasol: 0

Amount of times Kobe has cried for a trade because he can't win a single playoff series on his own: 1

Next.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Proof?

LeBron is the one player in the league that him alone can make any team relevant. Put him on literally any ****ing team and that team becomes deadly. Even the Bobcats. If you put LeBron on the current Bobcats they immediately become a Top 3 seed with no other additions.

Is that why he didn't win anything until he had the best 2nd AND 3rd best teammate in the league?

:oldlol:

[eliteballer]

Proof?

LeBron is the one player in the league that him alone can make any team relevant. Put him on literally any ****ing team and that team becomes deadly. Even the Bobcats. If you put LeBron on the current Bobcats they immediately become a Top 3 seed with no other additions.

:roll: The chokes of 2009, 2011, and joke finals of 2007 say hi. There's a reason he jumped ship from Cleveland to play with superstars. He's not THAT good.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Number of times LeBrons lost in the first round: 0

Number of playoff series Kobe has won without Shaq/Gasol: 0

Amount of times Kobe has cried for a trade because he can't win a single playoff series on his own: 1

Next.

Tough to lose in the first round if your average first round opponent has a losing record.

:confusedshrug:

I'm sure Cavs fan wished LeBron only asked for a trade instead of bouncing to join an already superstar laden team at his first opportunity. I wonder if hes going to opt out early to sign with the Lakers next.

[MiamiThrice]

Is that why he didn't win anything until he had the best 2nd AND 3rd best teammate in the league?

:oldlol:

LeBron criticized for not winning a title without an allstar teammate?

Kobe gets a pass for not winning a single playoff series without an allstar teammate?

Yeah looks like another Kobe dicksucker.:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


:roll: The chokes of 2009, 2011, and joke finals of 2007 say hi. There's a reason he jumped ship from Cleveland to play with superstars. He's not THAT good.

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Yeah there is a reason,because Cleveland management failed him with a viablecast for 7 years. Kobe started crying after 3. LeBron still had the Cavs contending year in and year out with a roster full of scrubs. Kobe was getting raped by a team with Boris Diaw at center with a similar cast.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[eliteballer]

The Cavs weren't real contenders. They were just playing in the East. If LeBron was that good he would have 3 titles at least by now, ie 2009 2011.

http://files.niketalk.com/smilies/smokin.gif

[bdreason]

Who cares.

[Cali Syndicate]

Ha

[Yao Ming's Foot]

2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)

Any all star is capable of leading their team to victory in a playoff series if surrounded by teammates capable of playing top 5 defense against the teams listed above.

How many of those teams would have even made the Western Conference playoffs?

[eliteballer]

The Cavs weren't real contenders. They were just playing in the East. If LeBron was that good he would have 3 titles at least by now, ie 2009 2011

http://files.niketalk.com/smilies/smokin.gif

[MiamiThrice]

2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)

Any all star is capable of leading their team to victory in a playoff series if surrounded by teammates capable of playing top 5 defense against the teams listed above.

How many of those teams would have even made the Western Conference playoffs?

What great defenders did LeBron James have anchoring his defense?

LeBron played who was on the schedule. And he dominated. Maybe Kobe should have gotten better regular season so he could play the lower seeded teams. Looks like your boy doesn't have the ability to dominate and carry a team night in and night out like LeBron does. Don't worry though bro blowing a 3-1 series lead to a team anchored by Boris Diaw at center is cool. It's also cool to give up on your team in the deciding game because your butthurt you can't win.

Winning Percentage in the first round: 100% for the King

Even with shit teams. And that's what it comes down to.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What great defenders did LeBron James have anchoring his defense?

LeBron played who was on the schedule. And he dominated. Maybe Kobe should have gotten better regular season so he could play the lower seeded teams. Looks like your boy doesn't have the ability to dominate and carry a team night in and night out like LeBron does. Don't worry though bro blowing a 3-1 series lead to a team anchored by Boris Diaw at center is cool. It's also cool to give up on your team in the deciding game because your butthurt you can't win.

Winning Percentage in the first round: 100% for the King

Even with shit teams. And that's what it comes down to.

PER CHAMPIONSHIP BELTS, WIN SHARES CUPS AND FLAWLESS FIRST ROUNDS

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Lebron apologists redefining the definition of basketball greatness never gets old.

The Cavs were a top 4 defensive team a year before LeBron started to tell anybody with a microphone he was going to start trying on defense.

:confusedshrug:

[Cali Syndicate]

While Lebron has never had a first round exit, he wouldn't have gotten past the 06 and 07 Suns either with the cast Kobe played with. Kobe almost took the 06
Suns too.

But who had the better career from that period? It's all subjective IMO. Kobe has the rings, Lebron has the accolades. Both obviously dominated the league as the top players in the league. I'd like to say Kobe but it's easily debatable.

[plowking]

3 straight finals, 2 for 3 in the finals, dominance, scoring records, etc. Personally I think MVP voting is an absolute joke.

Funny considering the MVP is the most prestigious award in the NBA.

[MiamiThrice]

PER CHAMPIONSHIP BELTS, WIN SHARES CUPS AND FLAWLESS FIRST ROUNDS

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Lebron apologists redefining the definition of basketball greatness never gets old.

The Cavs were a top 4 defensive team a year before LeBron started to tell anybody with a microphone he was going to start trying on defense.

:confusedshrug:

I see you failed to name the great defenders Cleveland had anchoring their defense. Here I'll save you the trouble.

LeBron James

Thats it

2010 ClevelandCavs Defensive Rating(pre-Decision): 7th
2011 ClevelandCavs Defensive Rating(post-decision): 29th

Next


While Lebron has never had a first round exit, he wouldn't have gotten past the 06 and 07 Suns either with the cast Kobe played with. Kobe almost took the 06
Suns too.

But who had the better career from that period? It's all subjective IMO. Kobe has the rings, Lebron has the accolades. Both obviously dominated the league as the top players in the league. I'd like to say Kobe but it's easily debatable.

Give LeBron a 3-1 series lead on those Suns and I'd be willing to take my chances.

LeBron would also get whatever he wanted inside on a 2007 Suns team with Boris Diaw at center that was just begging to get upset.

[eliteballer]

I see you failed to name the great defenders Cleveland had anchoring their defense. Here I'll save you the trouble.

LeBron James

Thats it

2010 ClevelandCavs Defensive Rating(pre-Decision): 7th
2011 ClevelandCavs Defensive Rating(post-decision): 29th

Cavs also lost Mike Brown(great defensive coach), Varejao
(for most of the year), Shaq, and Illgauskus. Thats a lot of size and intimidation inside.....

[eliteballer]

The Cavs weren't real contenders. They were just playing in the East. If LeBron was that good he would have 3 titles at least by now, ie 2009 2011

http://files.niketalk.com/smilies/smokin.gif

[Cali Syndicate]

LeBron would also get whatever he wanted inside on a 2007 Suns team with Boris Diaw at center that was just begging to get upset.

Doesn't matter what Lebron would get inside if the opposing team gonna outscore you anyways.

[Cali Syndicate]

The Cavs weren't real contenders. They were just playing in the East. If LeBron was that good he would have 3 titles at least by now, ie 2009 2011.

http://files.niketalk.com/smilies/smokin.gif

Lebron went 39ppg (on a efficient clip) 8apg 8rpg in 09 against the Magic. Yeah he was that damn good. Not sure what else he could have done.

Can't argue 2011 though.

[Magic 32]

Total regular season wins for playoffs teams in 06, 07, 08 and 09.

2006 EC = 379 wins
2006 WC = 406 wins

2007 EC = 365 wins
2007 WC = 418 wins

2008 EC = 383 wins
2008 WC = 434 wins

2009 EC = 398 wins
2009 WC = 427 wins

And the EC teams had the luxury of playing crappy teams more often. The disparity in wins between the non-playoff teams is even more flagrant. No wonder it was so easy to get far in the eastern conference playoffs.

:oldlol:

[brandonislegend]

The East was pretty sad, they played the Wizards like 10 years in a row lol.

[longtime lurker]

Ofcourse you think MVP (which is the most significant award towards telling how much impact the player did inflict upon his team due to his talent, skills, productions, domination, leadership etc.) is an absolute joke... especially when Kobe has only one...

No it's a joke because Kobe only has 1, Shaq only has 1 and Steve Nash has 2.

It's a joke because you could be the best player in the league but if you play with a bunch of scrubs good luck winning.

It's a joke because the media voted for Derek Rose last year because they were mad at Lebron, yet this year Lebron wins with the 4th best record in the league while there's another guy that has a better record in a tougher conference, who played as well if not better.

It's a joke apparently all the years Kobe and Shaq played together they cancelled each other out(go figure :rolleyes: ) yet Lebron can win playing with Wade AND Chris Bosh!

The biggest reason it's a joke is because it's voted on by the media who a majority haven't played the game. There are morons that base it on PER, the best story and oh there's that idiot voted for PJ Brown :biggums:

[lebeast666]

Stop comparing Lebron to Kobe. it's just putting down Lebron and making him look bad. Kobe fvking overrated by these stans

[NLZ]

Not a fan of people that have short-term memory... Kobe dominated, like no other (not including C's). Kobe dominated his position (guard) more than any F/C dominated theirs. That's why I'll always have Kobe over Tim Duncan, sure Duncan might have been more effective in his prime, but he's a F/C. F/C by default are more important, doesn't make them better. By far best guard with decent bigs > best big with 5+ other dominant bigs in the discussion that are a little worse than the best big with decent guards.

Prime = Kobe.
Peak = Kobe.
Career = Kobe, for now. I can see LeBron taking this as he finishes with 5+ MVPs.

Before the Finals it was 60% LeBron, 40% Durant. Think about that for a second, think about prime Kobe being compared to current Durant. You really think Durant would even be in the discussion?

[kennethgriffin]

Funny considering the MVP is the most prestigious award in the NBA.


for a guy without an mvp... the mvp is the most prestigious award

but for a guy with an mvp... the championship is the most prestigious award


because after you win the mvp. your place in history is determined by #of rings


hense moses malones 3 mvps 1 title being unanimously 100% of the time ranked below kobe/hakeem/shaqs multiple titles and 1 mvp

[PP34Deuce]

statistics can be manipulated in any way. and stats to me dont tell the full story when its close. the stats show what we already know; lebron is great all around while kobe was a phenominal scorer.

game 7 bosh was big reason mia beat bos.

the guy who gets it done as the main guy on his team has the better career and thats kobe. lebron has given us crazy triple doubles..kobe has given us clutch baskets.and crazy scoring games.

they have diff roles and abilities. they both dominate at them.

[kennethgriffin]

statistics can be manipulated in any way. and stats to me dont tell the full story when its close. the stats show what we already know; lebron is great all around while kobe was a phenominal scorer.

game 7 bosh was big reason mia beat bos.

the guy who gets it done as the main guy on his team has the better career and thats kobe. lebron has given us crazy triple doubles..kobe has given us clutch baskets.and crazy scoring games.

they have diff roles and abilities. they both dominate at them.


lebrons a more productive 1,2,3 quarter player

kobe is a more productive 1,2,3,4 quarter + OT,D-OT,T-OT player

[lilgodfather1]

Despite the fact that LeBron was in his early 20's for most of this time period he still had better overall statistics. He won 3 MVP's to Kobe's 1, and one FMVP to Kobe's 2. Kobe is 2-1 in the finals in this time period, and LeBron is 1-2. This is actually really really close despite LeBron being so young, which says a ton about his career imo. I don't think there is a clear cut winner in this one... Both players missed the playoffs in the same year.

Points scored
04-05 - 11-12

Kobe - 17,269
LeBron - 17,391

Winner LeBron

Rebounds

Kobe - 3,331
LeBron - 4,511

Winner LeBron

Assists

Kobe - 3,028
LeBron - 4,286

Winner LeBron

Steals

Kobe - 896
LeBron - 1,064

Winner LeBron

Blocks

Kobe - 246
LeBron - 524

Winner LeBron

Field Goal %

Kobe - 5969FGA - 13200FGM - 0.452
LeBron - 6172FGA - 12565FGM - 0.491

Winner LeBron

As illustrated by those stats LeBron is quite clearly superior to Kobe in every single category. I didn't do 3's because i'm too bored to do so. If someone wants to go ahead.

[red1]

Lebron has been a better player since 08 or 09 but kobe has been more successful career-wise during this timespan. I say this because Kobe has had a better balance of individual shine and team success

[Quickening]

Despite the fact that LeBron was in his early 20's for most of this time period he still had better overall statistics. He won 3 MVP's to Kobe's 1, and one FMVP to Kobe's 2. Kobe is 2-1 in the finals in this time period, and LeBron is 1-2. This is actually really really close despite LeBron being so young, which says a ton about his career imo. I don't think there is a clear cut winner in this one... Both players missed the playoffs in the same year.

Points scored
04-05 - 11-12

Kobe - 17,269
LeBron - 17,391

Winner LeBron

Rebounds

Kobe - 3,331
LeBron - 4,511

Winner LeBron

Assists

Kobe - 3,028
LeBron - 4,286

Winner LeBron

Steals

Kobe - 896
LeBron - 1,064

Winner LeBron

Blocks

Kobe - 246
LeBron - 524

Winner LeBron

Field Goal %

Kobe - 5969FGA - 13200FGM - 0.452
LeBron - 6172FGA - 12565FGM - 0.491

Winner LeBron

As illustrated by those stats LeBron is quite clearly superior to Kobe in every single category. I didn't do 3's because i'm too bored to do so. If someone wants to go ahead.
:applause:

[LakersReign]

No it's a joke because Kobe only has 1, Shaq only has 1 and Steve Nash has 2.

It's a joke because you could be the best player in the league but if you play with a bunch of scrubs good luck winning.

It's a joke because the media voted for Derek Rose last year because they were mad at Lebron, yet this year Lebron wins with the 4th best record in the league while there's another guy that has a better record in a tougher conference, who played as well if not better.

It's a joke apparently all the years Kobe and Shaq played together they cancelled each other out(go figure :rolleyes: ) yet Lebron can win playing with Wade AND Chris Bosh!

The biggest reason it's a joke is because it's voted on by the media who a majority haven't played the game. There are morons that base it on PER, the best story and oh there's that idiot voted for PJ Brown :biggums:

DAMN.......Lontime Lurker just put his foot all up in pauk's a** on that one:roll:

[shaq2000]

Winning Percentage in the first round: 100% for the King

Against mostly shitty .500 teams though. Not the most impressive of feats.

2004 - couldn't make the playoffs

2005 - couldn't make the playoffs

2006 1st Rd: Wizards (5th seed: 42-40; .525)

2007 1st Rd: Wizards (7th seed: 41-41; .500)

2008 1st Rd: Wizards (5th seed: 43-39; .524)

2009 1st Rd: Pistons (8th seed: 39-43; .476)

2010 1st Rd: Bulls (8th seed: 41-41; .500)

2011 1st Rd: 76ers (7th seed: 41-41; .500)

2012 1st Rd: Knicks (7th seed: 36-30; .545)

[DatAsh]

Not a fan of people that have short-term memory... Kobe dominated, like no other (not including C's). Kobe dominated his position (guard) more than any F/C dominated theirs. That's why I'll always have Kobe over Tim Duncan, sure Duncan might have been more effective in his prime, but he's a F/C. F/C by default are more important, doesn't make them better. By far best guard with decent bigs > best big with 5+ other dominant bigs in the discussion that are a little worse than the best big with decent guards.

Prime = Kobe.
Peak = Kobe.
Career = Kobe, for now. I can see LeBron taking this as he finishes with 5+ MVPs.

Before the Finals it was 60% LeBron, 40% Durant. Think about that for a second, think about prime Kobe being compared to current Durant. You really think Durant would even be in the discussion?

2012, 2009, and 2010 Lebron were better than any version of Kobe. The only people who seem to disagree with that are people with a very strong bias for Kobe Bryant.

[kennethgriffin]

2012, 2009, and 2010 Lebron were better than any version of Kobe. The only people who seem to disagree with that are people with a very strong bias for Kobe Bryant.
Where can i buy your book


Since your opinion is more valuable than the legends that say otherwise

They all have books... Just wondering where i can pick up yours :p

[longtime lurker]

Despite the fact that LeBron was in his early 20's for most of this time period he still had better overall statistics. He won 3 MVP's to Kobe's 1, and one FMVP to Kobe's 2. Kobe is 2-1 in the finals in this time period, and LeBron is 1-2. This is actually really really close despite LeBron being so young, which says a ton about his career imo. I don't think there is a clear cut winner in this one... Both players missed the playoffs in the same year.

Points scored
04-05 - 11-12

Kobe - 17,269
LeBron - 17,391

Winner LeBron

Rebounds

Kobe - 3,331
LeBron - 4,511

Winner LeBron

Assists

Kobe - 3,028
LeBron - 4,286

Winner LeBron

Steals

Kobe - 896
LeBron - 1,064

Winner LeBron

Blocks

Kobe - 246
LeBron - 524

Winner LeBron

Field Goal %

Kobe - 5969FGA - 13200FGM - 0.452
LeBron - 6172FGA - 12565FGM - 0.491

Winner LeBron

As illustrated by those stats LeBron is quite clearly superior to Kobe in every single category. I didn't do 3's because i'm too bored to do so. If someone wants to go ahead.

So in other words it's pretty close.

[DatAsh]

Where can i buy your book


Since your opinion is more valuable than the legends that say otherwise

They all have books... Just wondering where i can pick up yours :p

Most players that I know admit that Lebron has had the better peak. Kobe is the better player in an all time sense(5-10) than Lebron(11-17) and I think most players would agree with that as well.

[Magic 32]

:applause:

http://www.albany.com/byesline/check%20my%20stats2.jpg

http://www.eukicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Nike-X-Kobe-Bryant.jpg

[lilgodfather1]

So in other words it's pretty close.
Yep I guess it depends on what you value more team success (titles) or individual dominace (stats/MVP's). Realistically I think the extra title by Kobe is the equalizer in all of this, but I personally would also say if there is an edge it is incredibly slight either way. I don't think there is a winner.

[kennethgriffin]

Most players that I know admit that Lebron has had the better peak. Kobe is the better player in an all time sense(5-10) than Lebron(11-17) and I think most players would agree with that as well.
LMAOROFLOLOLULZLORZLMFFFFFPOOPOOOOOOOOOOYadayaayfa yayblarghblooopbleeeppbeepnoopb

[Freedom Kid7]

LMAOROFLOLOLULZLORZLMFFFFFPOOPOOOOOOOOOOYadayaayfa yayblarghblooopbleeeppbeepnoopb
:biggums: .

I agree with you here though. I think it's close, but Kobe has had the better career throughout those years. LeBron has probably been a superior player except 05-06 and maybe 07 - 08, but this isn't a discussion about who has been the best player moreso as a career respective.

[DatAsh]

LMAOROFLOLOLULZLORZLMFFFFFPOOPOOOOOOOOOOYadayaayfa yayblarghblooopbleeeppbeepnoopb

I obviously didn't mean that in a literal way, though I'm not sure why you interpreted it that way to begin with.

I actually think Kobe comes out on top of the question in the original post, but the peak vs peak argument pertains to a different question entirely.

[Vertical-24]

Didn't see them as important when Kobe gets on simply because of reputation, especially the past few years. Since 2005 LeBron has been unquestionably the better defender. These days Kobe is relegated to being that guy who guards the shooter in the corner.

Kobes defensive prime was during the threepeat where he would shut guys down. Even when you include that I'd still go with LeBron because he has the ability to shut down ANY position on top of being one of the best help defenders the game has ever seen. The LeBron chasedown block is famous for a reason. And LeBron does all this WHILE shouldering the offensive load. His endurance is crazy. Kobe was best defensively then because of youth, but more importantly because he didn't have to exert as much energy offensively because Shaq was the main option. Imagine if LeBron hada guy like 00 Shaq and focused primarily on defense. Dear god.

Comparing their defensive game since 2005? Not even close. Has Kobe ever gotten as many votes for Defensive Player of the Year as LeBron? He only makes the teams because of a reputation given to him by the media.

LeBron vs. Kobe from 05-12 is a very close comparison, much closer than people on both sides want you to believe. And some of the arguments i'm hearing for both players are rather convincing, while others just seem desperate.

Addressing the issue of Kobe's defense, Kobe from the years 1999-2009 was an extremely elite defender. Especially when it comes down to man-to-man defense, something that when he focuses on it, he excels at it (example: when he locked down RW in the RS). The only two All-Defensive titles Kobe may not have deserved were in '10 and '11. The others are all legit as far as I am concerned. And i'm a harsh critic when it comes to superstars.

And to say from 2005-up that LeBron is a far superior defender? Give me a break. It wasn't until around '09 that LeBron truly even became a great defender, imo, and that's exactly why his All-Defensive awards began to rack up. Around 05-07, all I remember hearing about was LeBron LACKING in defensive effort. Sportswriters, commentators and analysts ALL RAVED at the fact that LeBron having the size and athleticism that he has, was NOT a good defender because of lack of effort. So to say that LeBron was inarguably a better defender than Kobe since 05 is simply a smack in the face of Kobe, who in 06 was still an absolute shutdown defender despite the enormous load he also carried offensively. Oh and btw, we're not talking about hypotheticals here (your argument about LeBron having '00 Shaq). Story is LeBron did NOT focus on defense, so lets not bring up something to try to justify it. At the end of the day he didn't have 00 Shaq, so don't mention it.

LeBron since 09 has become an elite defender, and those are the only years I would concede to him being better than Kobe defensively. That's 3 years to Kobe's 4 if we're using 05-12 as the basis.

As far as overall career is concerned...its pretty damned close as I stated earlier. LeBron has had a hell of a career from 05 and up, and Kobe has too.

Regardless of how close it may be, i'm going to give the nod to the man who led his team to three back to back finals, winning two of those three. Career comparisons are based on success, and Kobe has been the more successful of the two during these years. Rings mean a lot in this game and Kobe has them.

[Odinn]

http://c1209.hizliresim.com/11/8/ctp2k.jpg

Kobe Bryant;
1x MVP
2x FMVP
2x All-Star Game MVP
6x All-NBA 1st, 1x All-NBA 3rd
6x All-D 1st, 1x All-D 2nd
11x WC Player of the Month
3.376 MVP Share
378-222(0.630) regular season games record
59-42(0.584) playoff games record
15-5(0.750) playoff series record
1x Missed the Playoffs
2x 1st Round Exit
3x NBA Finals
2x NBA Championship


LeBron James
3x MVP
1x FMVP
2x All-Star Game MVP
6x All-NBA 1st, 2x All-NBA 2nd
4x All-D 1st
20x EC Player of the Month
4.380 MVP Share
408-202(0.669) regular season games record
72-43(0.626) playoff games record
15-6(0.714) playoff series record
1x Missed the Playoffs
0x 1st Round Exit
3x NBA Finals
1x NBA Championship


Is there anything you want from me to add?

[guy]

05 - Lebron
06 - Kobe
07 - Kobe
08 - Kobe
09 - Lebron
10 - Kobe
11 - Lebron
12 - Lebron

[dyna]

Lebron

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I see, so Lebron deserved awards that he wasn't given and most of Kobe's awards weren't deserved and were given to him because of reputation alone.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Inside Hoops.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/Effyou.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

I see, so Lebron deserved awards that he wasn't given and most of Kobe's awards weren't deserved and were given to him because of reputation alone.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Inside Hoops.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/Effyou.jpg


This basically sums up every Lebron v Kobe thread on ISH.

Kobe gets credit for nothing that he's actually done, he was given all his rings, and awards based off reputation.

While Lebron gets credit for more hypothetical situations that could have occured that he PROBRABLY would have done amazing in, than any player in the NBA.

I'm a fan of both players, more so Kobe than Lebron. But I feel like Kobe get the biggest double standard treatment here on ISH.

It's like if Kobe didn't win the game playing 1 v 5 he didn't do enough.

And even then in a 1 v 5 game, We'd here how Kobe chucked to many shots.

[Heavincent]

This basically sums up every Lebron v Kobe thread on ISH.

Kobe gets credit for nothing that he's actually done, he was given all his rings, and awards based off reputation.

While Lebron gets credit for more hypothetical situations that could have occured that he PROBRABLY would have done amazing in, than any player in the NBA.

I'm a fan of both players, more so Kobe than Lebron. But I feel like Kobe get the biggest double standard treatment here on ISH.

It's like if Kobe didn't win the game playing 1 v 5 he didn't do enough.

And even then in a 1 v 5 game, We'd here how Kobe chucked to many shots.

Yeah that's the way it goes on ISH.

That whole "Kobe can't win a title without a good team" thing kills me :oldlol: It's just laughable. People act as if the other all time greats won titles playing with a bunch of scrubs.

People on ISH are ****ing goofy.

[longtime lurker]

Yeah that's the way it goes on ISH.

That whole "Kobe can't win a title without a good team" thing kills me :oldlol: It's just laughable. People act as if the other all time greats won titles playing with a bunch of scrubs.

People on ISH are ****ing goofy.

Kobe can't win without a player with two functioning legs :coleman:

[Doranku]

If Kobe played in the East like LeBron, he'd have had three straight MVPs from '06-'08.

[KingBeasley08]

kobe did have more rings but I'd say Lebron was a better individual player

[lilgodfather1]

kobe did have more rings but I'd say Lebron was a better individual player
There's no real debate that over this time span LeBron has been the better player. The debate is about their careers, which is inches apart at this juncture. Honestly both resumes would suggest players in the top 15 range quite easily.

[RazorBaLade]

Despite the fact that LeBron was in his early 20's for most of this time period he still had better overall statistics. He won 3 MVP's to Kobe's 1, and one FMVP to Kobe's 2. Kobe is 2-1 in the finals in this time period, and LeBron is 1-2. This is actually really really close despite LeBron being so young, which says a ton about his career imo. I don't think there is a clear cut winner in this one... Both players missed the playoffs in the same year.

Points scored
04-05 - 11-12

Kobe - 17,269
LeBron - 17,391

Winner LeBron

Rebounds

Kobe - 3,331
LeBron - 4,511

Winner LeBron

Assists

Kobe - 3,028
LeBron - 4,286

Winner LeBron

Steals

Kobe - 896
LeBron - 1,064

Winner LeBron

Blocks

Kobe - 246
LeBron - 524

Winner LeBron

Field Goal %

Kobe - 5969FGA - 13200FGM - 0.452
LeBron - 6172FGA - 12565FGM - 0.491

Winner LeBron

As illustrated by those stats LeBron is quite clearly superior to Kobe in every single category. I didn't do 3's because i'm too bored to do so. If someone wants to go ahead.

Minutes played

24,375 Lebron

23,104 Kobe


Something to consider. Not a huge difference maker, but it does matter. Kobe had to be slowed by phil because he was playing for rings. Kobe would win pts by a ton.

[LakersReign]

This basically sums up every Lebron v Kobe thread on ISH.

Kobe gets credit for nothing that he's actually done, he was given all his rings, and awards based off reputation.

While Lebron gets credit for more hypothetical situations that could have occured that he PROBRABLY would have done amazing in, than any player in the NBA.

I'm a fan of both players, more so Kobe than Lebron. But I feel like Kobe get the biggest double standard treatment here on ISH.

It's like if Kobe didn't win the game playing 1 v 5 he didn't do enough.

And even then in a 1 v 5 game, We'd here how Kobe chucked to many shots.

That's the main reason why reasonable NBA fans, Laker/Kobe fans or not, don't take bandwagon Lebron fans seriously:rolleyes:

[The Iron Fist]

2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)

Any all star is capable of leading their team to victory in a playoff series if surrounded by teammates capable of playing top 5 defense against the teams listed above.

How many of those teams would have even made the Western Conference playoffs?
I made a thread about this last week (the quality of teams faced in the playoffs teams .500 or worse) and it got deleted, gee, I wonder why?

Because it doesn't show bronze in a positive light. Nearly one fourth of the teams bronze faced in the playoffs were scrubs, and we're supposed to be impressed by that?

[INDI]

LeBron James

It's not even ****ing close either. As much shit as LeBron gets for having "stacked teams" LeBron had to do more in his 2012 playoff run than Kobe did in either 09 or 10. The Heat are great on paper, but when you actually watch them play they are entirely dependant on LeBrons talents both offensively and defensively. This is especially the case when Wade is out/injured as he was for nearly all of the postseason.

Kobe had by far the most stacked teams when he won even without Shaq. In the Kobe era(both Shaq and Gasol) the Lakers have always won because of their dominant frontcourt, not because of Kobe.

Then we compare their actual on court play. Kobe has a more diverse scoring arsenal, but LeBron is just more dominant and efficient which ultimately is what it comes down to. Kobes defensive prime was the Shaq titles, so that's canceled out. LeBron easily wins on defense, rebounding, playmaking, scoring inside the paint.

More MVPs.

I don't even need to keep going. Anyone who truly understands basketball can see this is obvious.

as for the second and third options

dwade >> gasol
bosh >> bynum (at the time bynum was only averaging like 9 and 6)

as for the role players

chalmers > dfish
odom > haslem
mike miller > vujacic/brown
shane battier = ariza/artest
cole = farmar
james jones > luke walton
ronny turiaf = josh powell
joel anthony = mbenga

etc...


I don't see this more talented laker team that your talking about

[Segatti]

Kobe. Everybody who actually watched the games does know that Kobe's fg is worst because he didn't tried to protect his fg like the other guy. And he is more clutch (much more), a better lockdown defender (people need to learn that a lockdown defender worth more than a versatile defender)...

Lebron is a better passer (by little) and a better rebounder (but a SF has to rebound more than a SG), and that's about it.

[shaq2000]

LeBron vs. Kobe from 05-12 is a very close comparison, much closer than people on both sides want you to believe. And some of the arguments i'm hearing for both players are rather convincing, while others just seem desperate.

Addressing the issue of Kobe's defense, Kobe from the years 1999-2009 was an extremely elite defender. Especially when it comes down to man-to-man defense, something that when he focuses on it, he excels at it (example: when he locked down RW in the RS). The only two All-Defensive titles Kobe may not have deserved were in '10 and '11. The others are all legit as far as I am concerned. And i'm a harsh critic when it comes to superstars.

And to say from 2005-up that LeBron is a far superior defender? Give me a break. It wasn't until around '09 that LeBron truly even became a great defender, imo, and that's exactly why his All-Defensive awards began to rack up. Around 05-07, all I remember hearing about was LeBron LACKING in defensive effort. Sportswriters, commentators and analysts ALL RAVED at the fact that LeBron having the size and athleticism that he has, was NOT a good defender because of lack of effort. So to say that LeBron was inarguably a better defender than Kobe since 05 is simply a smack in the face of Kobe, who in 06 was still an absolute shutdown defender despite the enormous load he also carried offensively. Oh and btw, we're not talking about hypotheticals here (your argument about LeBron having '00 Shaq). Story is LeBron did NOT focus on defense, so lets not bring up something to try to justify it. At the end of the day he didn't have 00 Shaq, so don't mention it.

LeBron since 09 has become an elite defender, and those are the only years I would concede to him being better than Kobe defensively. That's 3 years to Kobe's 4 if we're using 05-12 as the basis.

As far as overall career is concerned...its pretty damned close as I stated earlier. LeBron has had a hell of a career from 05 and up, and Kobe has too.

Regardless of how close it may be, i'm going to give the nod to the man who led his team to three back to back finals, winning two of those three. Career comparisons are based on success, and Kobe has been the more successful of the two during these years. Rings mean a lot in this game and Kobe has them.

I agree with basically this entire post. :applause:

I scratch my head when I see people saying that LeBron has been the better defender outside of the last 3 years.

[ripthekik]

outside of 2012 what has lebron done? choked year after year, was not a winner.

[silenc]

To me Lebron... More MVPs

[Boogey]

IMO Kobe did. Simple to see unless chips don't account for anything.

[ripthekik]

To me Lebron... More MVPs
so you'd take a guy who'd give you great stats but fail every year in the playoffs.. ok

[Doranku]

http://oi46.tinypic.com/25a7yoh.jpg

Here are the playoff leaders in win shares the past few years.

Billups over Duncan in '05. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I can't omg, losing it. What an ATROCIOUS statistic. Are there actually people out there who use this stat seriously in their arguments?

This is the bad thing about statistics these days. We've got loons out there manipulating a bunch of numbers together to create biased statistics that support their agenda, slapping a simple, misleading title on it such as "win shares", and then sitting back and watching as the sheep run around using these absurd metrics as if they're gospel even though I GUARANTEE 99% of them (and surely an idiot like MiamiThrice is included in this 99%) don't even know the first thing about how the statistic is calculated.

[G-Funk]

To me Lebron... More MVPs


Dirk, AI, Rose>>>Wade

More MVP's

[Cali Syndicate]

outside of 2012 what has lebron done? choked year after year, was not a winner.

Most, if not every great player, would not have been winning ships with the cast surrounding Lebron.

[LakersReign]

Billups over Duncan in '05. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I can't omg, losing it. What an ATROCIOUS statistic. Are there actually people out there who use this stat seriously in their arguments?

This is the bad thing about statistics these days. We've got loons out there manipulating a bunch of numbers together to create biased statistics that support their agenda, slapping a simple, misleading title on it such as "win shares", and then sitting back and watching as the sheep run around using these absurd metrics as if they're gospel even though I GUARANTEE 99% of them (and surely an idiot like MiamiThrice is included in this 99%) don't even know the first thing about how the statistic is calculated.

It's exactly the same thing with PER, even though Hollinger, the same guy who invented it, PUBLICLY admitted it's a flawed formula. But, yeah, you're right about the idiot, miami thrice. The clown admitted he was on a porn site and Kobe came to mind. Pretty much telling us all we needed to know about his basketball knowledge:lol

[TheeBeast]

To me Lebron... More MVPs

Nash>Kobe
Moses Malone>Shaq

:rockon:

[silenc]

Dirk, AI, Rose>>>Wade

More MVP's
So you gonna act like MVPs aint shit? Lebron and Kobe is very close, but regular season also boost your legacy.

[Segatti]

Dirk, AI, Rose>>>Wade

More MVP's

Dirk is ahead of Wade all time easily.

[crisoner]

So you gonna act like MVPs aint shit? Lebron and Kobe is very close, but regular season also boost your legacy.

Shaq only had one. He dominated the NBA for how many years and got freaking one.

MVP's regular season and Coach of the Year Awards are BS.
Only thing that matters is winning the title and being the best player through out the playoffs in that title run.

[BGriffin's Dad]

So you gonna act like MVPs aint shit? Lebron and Kobe is very close, but regular season also boost your legacy.

most lebron stans will say that kobe's 81 point game aint shit precisely because it was during the regular season :oldlol:

no consistency

[silenc]

Shaq only had one. He dominated the NBA for how many years and got freaking one.

MVP's regular season and Coach of the Year Awards are BS.
Only thing that matters is winning the title and being the best player through out the playoffs in that title run.
If thats the only criterion then Bill Walton should be top 20 NBA player of all time. Better than all of those no ringers....

[D.J.]

Can you imagine how Kobe would act if he had to endure a starting lineup of Sasha Pavlovic, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Illgauskas? That shit is comparable to Kobes first round exit teams. Kobe wouldn't be able to handle that shit like LeBron did(getting that group to the Finals).


That's significantly better than Smush Parker, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, and whoever else started from time to time for that Lakers squad. 2 things:


1)The Lakers were in a much tougher conference than the Cavs

2)The '07 Cavs didn't even play a winning team until the ECF. The Wizards and Nets were both .500.

[StateOfMind12]

The only reason why Kobe is still above Lebron in the all-time list is because of longevity. Removing 4-5 years of his prime would hurt him, his career, and his all-time ranking significantly.

The answer is Lebron.

[Nevaeh]

The only reason why Kobe is still above Lebron in the all-time list is because of longevity. Removing 4-5 years of his prime would hurt him, his career, and his all-time ranking significantly.

The answer is Lebron.

And it's real easy to have longevity when you don't have to carry a team for half of your career either.
:rolleyes:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And it's real easy to have longevity when you don't have to carry a team for half of your career either.
:rolleyes:

And when you take years away from the game to sit the bench for the Birmingham Barons?

[lilgodfather1]

Minutes played

24,375 Lebron

23,104 Kobe


Something to consider. Not a huge difference maker, but it does matter. Kobe had to be slowed by phil because he was playing for rings. Kobe would win pts by a ton.
Kobe just played in less games over that time span than LeBron. A player shouldn't get docked for being healthier than another one. It should be a positive that LeBron was able to play more games, and minutes not a negative. I actually didn't know that, and didn't even think to look at it. The longevity, dominance, versatility, and stats all say LeBron. The title count says Kobe. If 4 out of 5 things suggest one player over the other than you can't argue with 80% I guess.

[Optimus Prime]

This thread is a prime example of showing who understands basketball and who doesn't. :facepalm

MVP is a media popularity contest. At the end of the day, postseason, rings and FMVPs are what matter.

And boy howdy, Kobe's teams are always stacked, I tell you what! I mean he ran with Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown for years before Pau arrived. ALWAYS STACKED I TELL YOU! :rolleyes:

:kobe:

[crisoner]

If thats the only criterion then Bill Walton should be top 20 NBA player of all time. Better than all of those no ringers....

Walton would of been top 5 if he was not injured.

[Vertical-24]

Kobe just played in less games over that time span than LeBron. A player shouldn't get docked for being healthier than another one. It should be a positive that LeBron was able to play more games, and minutes not a negative. I actually didn't know that, and didn't even think to look at it. The longevity, dominance, versatility, and stats all say LeBron. The title count says Kobe. If 4 out of 5 things suggest one player over the other than you can't argue with 80% I guess.

The longevity says LeBron? So playing 13+ years of elite basketball gets depleted by 8 :oldlol: Nice try jack

[longtime lurker]

This thread is a prime example of showing who understands basketball and who doesn't. :facepalm

MVP is a media popularity contest. At the end of the day, postseason, rings and FMVPs are what matter.

And boy howdy, Kobe's teams are always stacked, I tell you what! I mean he ran with Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown for years before Pau arrived. ALWAYS STACKED I TELL YOU! :rolleyes:

:kobe:

Finals MVP's are overrated too. IN the end rings matter and what role you played in getting those rings matter

[ZaaaaaH]

This is such a easy question but ya retards just sat here and argue about a Hypothetical question.:facepalm


LeBron Himself will answer this question. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv37ykpYk84



So only 2 opinion really matters here. Kobe and Lebrons and Lebron clearly said Kobe was better much as you stans/fans want to disagree.

I agree with Lebron he is better then Kobe now.

[ripthekik]

This thread is a prime example of showing who understands basketball and who doesn't. :facepalm

MVP is a media popularity contest. At the end of the day, postseason, rings and FMVPs are what matter.

And boy howdy, Kobe's teams are always stacked, I tell you what! I mean he ran with Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown for years before Pau arrived. ALWAYS STACKED I TELL YOU! :rolleyes:

:kobe:

good post.

[silenc]

Walton would of been top 5 if he was not injured.
Is Walton top15 player of all time? Because he should be better than Robertson and West. Is he better than Barkley and Malone?

[Whoah10115]

This is pretty close, but I will take Kobe by a midge.

[Money 23]

2005 - Kobe
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe / LeBron
2009 - LeBron
2010 - LeBron
2011 - LeBron
2012 - LeBron

Literally that simple. The first year where LeBron truly challenged him is 2008. An often slept on year in Bron's career. He really improved his jumper, became a better scorer, really improved as a defender following Team USA's 2007 summer tournament (w/ Kobe's influence on defense I might add)

One could make the argument for him in 2008. And that game 7 he had v.s. the 2008 Celtics was better than anything Kobe could muster up in the Finals that season. It's a toss up that year, honestly.

[Bandito]

2005 - Kobe
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe / LeBron
2009 - LeBron
2010 - LeBron
2011 - LeBron
2012 - LeBron

Literally that simple. The first year where LeBron truly challenged him is 2008. An often slept on year in Bron's career. He really improved his jumper, became a better scorer, really improved as a defender following Team USA's 2007 summer tournament (w/ Kobe's influence on defense I might add)

One could make the argument for him in 2008. And that game 7 he had v.s. the 2008 Celtics was better than anything Kobe could muster up in the Finals that season. It's a toss up that year, honestly.
I think the same as you too. If you think anything different you're pretty much a tard from any side LOL. But mostly it was because of Kobe getting older and Lebron getting better.

[Money 23]

I think the same as you too. If you think anything different you're pretty much a tard from any side LOL. But mostly it was because of Kobe getting older and Lebron getting better.
Yup. I am totally unbiased when it comes to these two. I was a Kobe fan for awhile, was a fan of LeBron's too (until the punk ass Decision) but I always keep it real.

If you back track my posts to 2008 (Samurai Swoosh), before even Kobe went to the Finals. I was saying LeBron was pretty much establishing himself as the best player in the game given his jumper and defensive improvements.

Even as a Kobe fan I felt that 2008 MVP was a lifetime achievement award. It was kind of questionable given I felt LeBron was the better individual player, and CP3 did more with less on the Hornets.

It's really a split decision for that season, but given LeBron's epic game 7 performance v.s. those dominant 2008 Celtics, I give him the slight edge over Kobe ... who never mustered up a performance that dominant against them, ultimately facing the same trap defenses and doubles from that amazing defense of the 2008 Celtics.

That's called perspective. Anyone as you said arguing either way or being unfair is just that ... biased.

[StateOfMind12]

One could make the argument for him in 2008. And that game 7 he had v.s. the 2008 Celtics was better than anything Kobe could muster up in the Finals that season. It's a toss up that year, honestly.
That was just one game though. Kobe easily had a better overall series in the 2008 Finals vs. the Celtics than Lebron was in the 2008 ECSF vs. the Celtics.

[Bandito]

That was just one game though. Kobe easily had a better overall series in the 2008 Finals vs. the Celtics than Lebron was in the 2008 ECSF vs. the Celtics.
Yeah but you hae to take into consideration the whole season and the whole playoffs. At least it was a toss up for me.

[Money 23]

That was just one game though. Kobe easily had a better overall series in the 2008 Finals vs. the Celtics than Lebron was in the 2008 ECSF vs. the Celtics.
I said it's a toss up. I personally might choose LeBron. And yes, that game 7 alone was more impressive than on average what Kobe did against the same team. Kobe played well below his reg season and playoff averages. I believe he scored 26 ppg on like 41 or 42% shooting. He didn't play well at all. LeBron didn't play great for an entire series against that amazing defense, either. But like the 2007 series v.s. the Pistons, he had a REALLY memorable performance when things were on the line.

[FPJ]

Better Career - Kobe

Better Player - Lebron

I dont care about awards, MVP's, especially regular season one's are BS. LeBron should have won every year and im not a Lebron fan. Even Kobe said Lebron is the best player in the league.

[dunksby]

Stupid condition for the comparison but I will bite and say Kobe, I'd pause and think about it hard if LeBron had not choked like that in 2011 though.

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe played well below his reg season and playoff averages. I believe he scored 26 ppg on like 41 or 42% shooting. He didn't play well at all.
The same applies to Lebron. He averaged like 25 ppg with 35% FG in that series and Lebron's RS numbers were tremendous.

A large part of why the Cavs were in that series was because Ray was choking his brains out. He averaged less than 10 ppg and less than Rajon Rondo. It is part of why I consider putting Reggie Miller above Ray Allen because Reggie was a consistent playoff performer while Ray was an inconsistent one.

[RRR3]

The same applies to Lebron. He averaged like 25 ppg with 35% FG in that series and Lebron's RS numbers were tremendous.

A large part of why the Cavs were in that series was because Ray was choking his brains out. He averaged less than 10 ppg and less than Rajon Rondo. It is part of why I consider putting Reggie Miller above Ray Allen because Reggie was a consistent playoff performer while Ray was an inconsistent one.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[lilgodfather1]

The longevity says LeBron? So playing 13+ years of elite basketball gets depleted by 8 :oldlol: Nice try jack
You really are some kind of stupid... I don't know what type of reading comprehension they teach in the third world country you hail from, but I would complain if I were you.

[RRR3]

Swoosh is LeBron growing on you? Just wondering you've been praising him a lot lately.

[Magic 32]

Even as a Kobe fan I felt that 2008 MVP was a lifetime achievement award. It was kind of questionable given I felt LeBron was the better individual player, and CP3 did more with less on the Hornets.


Kobe had to be the leader of 3 different teams that year. One with Bynum, one without him, and finally one with Gasol. He was masterful with all three and had the team at the top of the west the entire time.

He was the MVP.

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe had to be the leader of 3 different teams that year. One with Bynum, one without him, and finally one with Gasol. He was masterful with all three and had the team at the top of the west the entire time.

He was the MVP.
I think that Chris Paul had a better supporting cast in 2008 than Kobe did too. The 2008 Hornets were actually really good and underrated and the 2008 Lakers were really overrated.

[Money 23]

I think that Chris Paul had a better supporting cast in 2008 than Kobe did too.
And that would be down right false ...

He also didn't have Phil Jackson coaching his squad.

His next best player was David West. A man that was literally MADE by Chris Paul in terms of his worth as a player.

[avonbarksdale]

HOW ARE YOU SAYING LEBRON

kobe won 2 rings in 2 tries, lebron won 1 in 3 times,

[Odinn]

HOW ARE YOU SAYING LEBRON

kobe won 2 rings in 2 tries, lebron won 1 in 3 times,
:facepalm

[StateOfMind12]

And that would be down right false ...

He also didn't have Phil Jackson coaching his squad.
He had Byron Scott, who is a great coach in his own right.


His next best player was David West. A man that was literally MADE by Chris Paul in terms of his worth as a player.
I have no idea what you are talking about. West creates his own shot quite well. Tyson Chandler was the one that got spoon-fed all the time from Chris Paul with the alley-oops but West created most of his own shots. West obviously benefited from the pick and pop from Paul but West didn't need to be spoon-fed to score.

Kobe should have been the MVP and he was. He was already leading the Lakers to the best record out West even when Gasol wasn't on the team. Gasol wasn't as good in 2008 as he was in 2009 or 2010 or any of his other all-star years either. He relied on Kobe to create most of his shots that season which is why he got exposed as bad as he did in the 2008 finals.

[Cali Syndicate]

He had Byron Scott, who is a great coach in his own right.


I have no idea what you are talking about. West creates his own shot quite well. Tyson Chandler was the one that got spoon-fed all the time from Chris Paul with the alley-oops but West created most of his own shots. West obviously benefited from the pick and pop from Paul but West didn't need to be spoon-fed to score.

Kobe should have been the MVP and he was. He was already leading the Lakers to the best record out West even when Gasol wasn't on the team. Gasol wasn't as good in 2008 as he was in 2009 or 2010 or any of his other all-star years either. He relied on Kobe to create most of his shots that season which is why he got exposed as bad as he did in the 2008 finals.

The percentage of West's points coming from an assist as a Hornet with CP3 was just as high as Pau's has been while playing as a Laker with Kobe.

Therefore "West created most his shots while most of Pau's points was spoon fed" is.....false.

[lilgodfather1]

HOW ARE YOU SAYING LEBRON

kobe won 2 rings in 2 tries, lebron won 1 in 3 times,
At least check your facts...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And that would be down right false ...

He also didn't have Phil Jackson coaching his squad.

His next best player was David West. A man that was literally MADE by Chris Paul in terms of his worth as a player.

:oldlol: If that's true why are his numbers nearly identical in 09 and 10 (when Paul missed half of the season.)?