ISH: Where MJ and Shaq allegedly had a higher peak than Wilt Chamberlain

[CavaliersFTW]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Sry kids, but.... no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSOHMtPvz8

No matter what way you try to slice it those guys peaks do not in any way shape or form touch Wilt's. Prime? Perhaps it's debatable due to rings if they are that important to you. But actual individual peak performance? GTFOH the guy owns the record book and nobody has ever even come close to rewriting it. Seriously some of these poll results are flat out embarrassing.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://rapradar.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/mj-gif.gif

http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/31/0216.shaq.gif

[keepinitreal]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Sry kids, but.... no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSOHMtPvz8

No matter what way you try to slice it those guys peaks do not in any way shape or form touch Wilt's. Prime? Perhaps it's debatable due to rings if they are that important to you. But actual individual peak performance? GTFOH the guy owns the record book and nobody has ever even come close to rewriting it. Seriously some of these poll results are flat out embarrassing.

:bowdown:

I'd love to see this guy play in today's NBA

[fpliii]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Sry kids, but.... no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSOHMtPvz8

No matter what way you try to slice it those guys peaks do not in any way shape or form touch Wilt's. Prime? Perhaps it's debatable due to rings if they are that important to you. But actual individual peak performance? GTFOH the guy owns the record book and nobody has ever even come close to rewriting it. Seriously some of these poll results are flat out embarrassing.

when are you putting up some Russell highlight videos? love your work, you must unearth the GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

when are you putting up some Russell highlight videos? love your work, you must unearth the GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown:
His project is taking a while, it's gotta be done right but in due time I will start to upload some roughcuts

[SourPatchKids]

Damn. There's probably very few sports I could beat him at.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://rapradar.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/mj-gif.gif

http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/31/0216.shaq.gif
Deuce you can laugh about it (and dislike my youtube video's - i know that was u lol) all you want but there really is no argument here. In terms of "peak" the summit that Wilt built and the disparity between it and the next best is massive.

[magnax1]

There is a reason Jordan is considered the best player ever lol. There is nothing silly about saying Jordan had a better peak then Wilt.

[L.Kizzle]

You got a Chet Walker video?

[andgar923]

There is a reason Jordan is considered the best player ever lol. There is nothing silly about saying Jordan had a better peak then Wilt.

to be fair, this is about 'peak' not career. What makes MJ GOAT is his combination of individual achievement, skill and titles.

Wilt is lacking in one of those.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Deuce you can laugh about it (and dislike my youtube video's - i know that was u lol) all you want but there really is no argument here. In terms of "peak" the summit that Wilt built and the disparity between it and the next best is massive.
I did not dislike any of your videos, lol
But like I said before - competition and era, repeat after me - competition and era.

George Mikan had a higher peak than everybody. 5 Championships in 6 years! All while being the best player in the league. That is the same defense Wilt faced essentially.

[magnax1]

to be fair, this is about 'peak' not career. What makes MJ GOAT is his combination of individual achievement, skill and titles.

Wilt is lacking in one of those.
So? Peak vs Peak Jordan and Wilt are really neck and neck to me. Jordan in his peak season lead the league in scoring at 33 points, while shooting 60 TS%, averaged 8 assists, got 8 rebounds, and played at a DPOTY level (which he had just come off of) Wilt was great, and I think he's right there, as I said, but 24-24-8 as the best defender with 64 TS% in a much faster pace is really not on any sort of different level at all. They're the two most amazing seasons ever too me, but I don't know what you could think there is that really separates them much.

[CavaliersFTW]

There is a reason Jordan is considered the best player ever lol. There is nothing silly about saying Jordan had a better peak then Wilt.
http://youtu.be/XNRo6RJNq6s

It is silly actually.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://youtu.be/XNRo6RJNq6s

It is silly actually.
:facepalm You just don't get it

[CavaliersFTW]

I did not dislike any of your videos, lol
But like I said before - competition and era, repeat after me - competition and era.

George Mikan had a higher peak than everybody. 5 Championships in 6 years! All while being the best player in the league. That is the same defense Wilt faced essentially.
So Mikan faced off against Bill Russell and Walt Bellamy in his peak? GTFOH :oldlol: Your always trying to convince people that Wilt played in an era identical to the late 40's and early 50's but everybody and their mother these days knows Wilt faced against Kareem Abdul Jabbar and dozens of other bigmen that would shred big men in the post today. I'm not Jlauber, I'm not gonna slap an essay in your face - I'll just post footage instead, it's more concrete - u can't try to sway people Wilt faced Mikan'esq opponents when he's clearly duking it out with Kareem or Russell :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

:facepalm You just don't get it
I do get it, your constantly baiting for Jlauber. I get it. :D

[Legends66NBA7]

CavsFTW, what years are you considering Wilt's peak ?


Wilt is lacking in one of those.

Even so, his lone 2 rings are 2 of the greatest teams of all-time and can surely compete with any of MJ's teams.

I do have Jordan over Wilt, but not exactly the titles reason.

[CavaliersFTW]

CavsFTW, what years are you considering Wilt's peak ?



Even so, his lone 2 rings are 2 of the greatest teams of all-time and can surely compete with any of MJ's teams.

I do have Jordan over Wilt, but not exactly the titles reason.
2 seasons are Wilt's "peak(s)"

1962 when coach Mcguire gave Wilt a greenlight on offense and told the team to feed him and told Wilt to try and get 50 a night... Wilt does it - on insane minutes - yadda yadda yadda

1967 when Alex Hannum has Wilt focus on facilitating and only taking high % shots. Scores over 20 a game on .680%, plays insane defense (his defense is phenomenal at this point), and he is #3 or something in assists (and unlike the season after these assists came within the flow of the game, they weren't forced due to Wilt chasing an accolade). Wins a ring on an all-time historically great team. Almost avgs a triple double in the playoffs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So Mikan faced off against Bill Russell and Walt Bellamy in his peak? GTFOH :oldlol: Your always trying to convince people that Wilt played in an era identical to the late 40's and early 50's but everybody and their mother these days knows Wilt faced against Kareem Abdul Jabbar and dozens of other bigmen that would shred big men in the post today. I'm not Jlauber, I'm not gonna slap an essay in your face - I'll just post footage instead, it's more concrete - u can't try to sway people Wilt faced Mikan'esq opponents when he's clearly duking it out with Kareem or Russell :oldlol:
He faced Kareem for the first time in 1969.
Wilt first played in NBA game in 1959.
Mikan won an NBA Title in 1954.

So he did not "duke it out" with Kareem for the 9/13 seasons.

List of players over 7 foot, 230 pounds in Wilt's time
Mel Counts - 7'0", 230 lbs
Swede Halbrook - 7'3" 235 lbs (played only 2 seasons)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252158

Wilt was 7'1, 275-300 pounds. Those are facts.

[CavaliersFTW]

He faced Kareem for the first time in 1969.
Wilt first played in NBA game in 1959.
Mikan won an NBA Title in 1954.

So he did not "duke it out" with Kareem for the 9/13 seasons.

List of players over 7 foot, 230 pounds in Wilt's time
Mel Counts - 7'0", 230 lbs
Swede Halbrook - 7'3" 235 lbs (played only 2 seasons)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252158

Wilt was 7'1, 275-300 pounds. Those are facts.
:roll:

Your missing a couple dozen players :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt Chamberlain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE

George Mikan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xEoCsDKXPo


What's the difference?

[Deuce Bigalow]

:roll:

Your missing a couple dozen players :roll:
No I'm not. 1 player in from 1959-1973 that played over 3 seasons was 7'0", 230 pounds.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt Chamberlain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE

George Mikan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xEoCsDKXPo


What's the difference?
Mikan to Wilt is about the same as Bob Cousy to Michael Jordan. C'mon man your just asking for Jlauber to come in here and nuke the thread.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

He faced Kareem for the first time in 1969.
Wilt first played in NBA game in 1959.
Mikan won an NBA Title in 1954.

So he did not "duke it out" with Kareem for the 9/13 seasons.

List of players over 7 foot, 230 pounds in Wilt's time
Mel Counts - 7'0", 230 lbs
Swede Halbrook - 7'3" 235 lbs (played only 2 seasons)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252158

Wilt was 7'1, 275-300 pounds. Those are facts.

Wilt Chamberlain, clowning a bunch of 6'9 Dwight Howard clones since 1959.

:bowdown:

[Legends66NBA7]

2 seasons are Wilt's "peak(s)"

1962 when coach Mcguire gave Wilt a greenlight on offense and told the team to feed him and told Wilt to try and get 50 a night... Wilt does it - on insane minutes - yadda yadda yadda

1967 when Alex Hannum has Wilt focus on facilitating and only taking high % shots. Scores over 20 a game on .680%, plays insane defense (his defense is phenomenal at this point), and he is #3 or something in assists (and unlike the season after these assists came within the flow of the game, they weren't forced due to Wilt chasing an accolade). Wins a ring on an all-time historically great team. Almost avgs a triple double in the playoffs.

Yeah, that would be mine too.

Wilt 67 was probably the best version of Wilt to me.

[Legends66NBA7]

What's the difference?

That Wilt's highlights were way better.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Mikan to Wilt is about the same as Bob Cousy to Michael Jordan. C'mon man your just asking for Jlauber to come in here and nuke the thread.
No it isn't. Mikan won a Championship in 1954. Wilt played in an NBA game in 1959.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That Wilt's highlights were way better.
It isn't what Wilt was doing, it was the defense. The defenses looks the same.

[CavaliersFTW]

No I'm not. 1 player in from 1959-1973 that played over 3 seasons was 7'0", 230 pounds.
Sry, I'm not writing an essay for you on the sizes of players from Wilt's time vs the sizes of players from today because I have a life. But the gist will come out like this:

Players from Wilt's time were as tall as players today. Literally, no measurable differences in height at all - trends from that time vs today have changed as far as how players get listed, thus it is an illusion only on paper that players back then weren't as tall (they didn't like to exaggerate, they didn't measure in shoes), or not as heavy as reality (they never updated their list weight after the NCAA). Players on avg did weigh less in Wilt's time than they do today but not nearly as much as anyone would think. This includes Wilt himself - his list info as well as everyone elses is misleading. And the disparity between the weight of Wilt and his competition is if anything - less than the disparity between the weight of say, Shaq and his competition. So if your gonna asterisk Wilt, might as well make a bigger asterisk for Shaq. :rolleyes:

Examples:

Thurmond 232-245 - same height w/o shoes as Tyson Chandler
Embry 245-270 - same height w/o shoes as Tristan Thompson
Kareem 230-237 - same height w/o shoes as Zydrunas Ilgauskus
Russell 215-240 - same height w/o shoes as Andre Drummond
Unseld 245-265 - same height w/o shoes as Ben Wallace
Bellamy 240-265 - same height w/o shoes as Joakim Noah
Reed 240-250 - same height w/o shoes as Andre Drummond
Lanier 265-290 - same height w/o shoes as Tyson Chandler
Boerwinkle 265-275 - same height w/o shoes as Andrew Bynum

discussion over

[Deuce Bigalow]

Sry, I'm not writing an essay for you on the sizes of players from Wilt's time vs the sizes of players from today because I have a life. But the gist will come out like this:

Players from Wilt's time were as tall as players today. Literally, no measurable differences in height at all - trends from that time vs today have changed as far as how players get listed, thus it is an illusion only on paper that players back then weren't as tall (they didn't like to exaggerate, they didn't measure in shoes), or not as heavy as reality (they never updated their list weight after the NCAA). Players on avg did weigh less in Wilt's time than they do today but not nearly as much as anyone would think. This includes Wilt himself - his list info as well as everyone elses is misleading. And the disparity between the weight of Wilt and his competition is if anything - less than the disparity between the weight of say, Shaq and his competition. So if your gonna asterisk Wilt, might as well make a bigger asterisk for Shaq.

Examples:

Thurmond 232-245 - same height w/o shoes as Tyson Chandler
Embry 245-270 - same height w/o shoes as Tristan Thompson
Kareem 230-237 - same height w/o shoes as Zydrunas Ilgauskus
Russell 215-240 - same height w/o shoes as Andre Drummond
Unseld 245-265 - same height w/o shoes as Ben Wallace
Bellamy 240-265 - same height w/o shoes as Joakim Noah
Reed 240-250 - same height w/o shoes as Andre Drummond
Lanier 265-290 - same height w/o shoes as Tyson Chandler
Boerwinkle 265-275 - same height w/o shoes as Andrew Bynum

discussion over
Yeah, right. Check the vids, the tape, pics, whatever you want, and you'll see that they are not near Wilt. Except Kareem whom Wilt did not play from 1959-1968, his prime and when he put up his numbers.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yeah, right. Check the vids, the tape, pics, whatever you want, and you'll see that they are not near Wilt. Except Kareem whom Wilt did not play from 1959-1968, his prime and when he put up his numbers.
:roll:

I own the vids and tape. I watch more "tape" of that era in a week than you've probably ever see in your life. There are players in Wilt's era who are huge, tall, long, and athletic that aren't named Wilt Chamberlain. Sry if it doesn't fit your agenda but it is what it is :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

:roll:

I own the vids and tape. I watch more "tape" of that era in a week than you've probably ever see in your life. There are players in Wilt's era who are huge, tall, long, and athletic that aren't named Wilt Chamberlain. Sry if it doesn't fit your agenda but it is what it is :confusedshrug:
http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG/37/3798/XCJIF00Z.jpg
http://216.117.181.169/art/team/other/b63.jpg
http://liveuploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/wilt-chamberlain-bill-russell-8x10-photo_3666d6391c227b296a80f292c53e58dc-509887-236x300.jpg
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/07/54/75/2019156/9/628x471.jpg

4 inches shorter, 60 pounds lighter.

[Legends66NBA7]

It isn't what Wilt was doing, it was the defense. The defenses looks the same.

Yeah, because I'm going to analyze defenses in a highlight clip spanning 2 minutes and 12 seconds long ?

And your wrong. Watch the clips again. Mika is getting D'd up by some player I can't really say... and he's getting hook shots to go down with ease and the defender can't do really anything but stay in front.

Wilt is getting defended by Bill Russell in some of the clips (who exactly is Mikan's defensive rival ? Does it even matter when the other guy is considered the great defender of all-time ?)... Russell blocked one of the shots too... Russell is actually making Wilt work in some of those plays. Where do you see any blocked shots in Mikan's video or even making him work harder for a basket near the rim ?

"The defense looks the same". :rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://randommax.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/206558.png

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2008/02/12/trottersx.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/GeorgeMikan.jpg/220px-GeorgeMikan.jpg

Don't see a difference

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

78 year old Bill Russell is still about Dwight Howard's height.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/686/84800069.jpg/sr=1

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8bj38OwRr1r31jjho1_1280.jpg

[PHILA]

CavaliersFTW (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/member.php?u=228042)

He is a Lakers fan. Don't feed the troll.

[Deuce Bigalow]

78 year old Bill Russell is still about Dwight Howard's height.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/686/84800069.jpg/sr=1
Did Bill look like this?: http://www.wallpapersd.com/media/images/8a48b7d12e.jpg

Or have atleast a 3 foot vertical? http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/8/5/857142.1135103982406.198376242uw.jpg

[DatAsh]

Did Bill look like this?: http://www.wallpapersd.com/media/images/8a48b7d12e.jpg

Or have atleast a 3 foot vertical? http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/8/5/857142.1135103982406.198376242uw.jpg

I'm pretty sure Bill Russell had a higher vertical than Dwight. He was an Olympic caliber high jumper at the time.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He is a Lakers fan. Don't feed the troll.
How am I trolling? :oldlol:

I've used videos and pictures. I'm not making this shit up, you can use google or youtube.

[PHILA]

Did Bill look like this?:

Or have atleast a 3 foot vertical?

He went toe to toe with Wilt Chamberlain, who had unprecedented physical abilities. :no:




Height: 7-1
Weight: Varied from 265 to 320 lbs
Vertical: 40+ inches
Wingspan: 7-8
Standing Reach: 9-6
Hand Length: 9.5"
Hand Spread: 11.5"
Bench Press: 500 lbs
Deadlift: 625 lbs
Clean & Jerk: 435 lbs
Shoulder Press: 400 lbs
40 yard dash: 4.6 seconds (Barefoot & wearing a suit/tie)
440 yard dash: 49.0 seconds
880 yard dash: 1:58.3
High Jump: 6-6
Broad Jump: 22 feet
Shot Put: 53 feet, 4 inches

[LosBulls]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Sry kids, but.... no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSOHMtPvz8

No matter what way you try to slice it those guys peaks do not in any way shape or form touch Wilt's. Prime? Perhaps it's debatable due to rings if they are that important to you. But actual individual peak performance? GTFOH the guy owns the record book and nobody has ever even come close to rewriting it. Seriously some of these poll results are flat out embarrassing.
Do you not realize MOST of his blocks were ****ing GOALTENDS?

[CavaliersFTW]

http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG/37/3798/XCJIF00Z.jpg
http://216.117.181.169/art/team/other/b63.jpg
http://liveuploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/wilt-chamberlain-bill-russell-8x10-photo_3666d6391c227b296a80f292c53e58dc-509887-236x300.jpg
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/07/54/75/2019156/9/628x471.jpg

4 inches shorter, 60 pounds lighter.
And just think, Ben Wallace measured over 2 inches shorter than Russell w/o shoes and weighed over 100lbs less than Shaq - stop reaching Deuce, cherry picking pics isn't going to change the fact that Wilt's peak is the Everest of NBA peaks. Your going on ignore list if you keep sidebarring my thread. I don't feel like hearing your bullshit, once people go on my ignore list they never get removed.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm pretty sure Bill Russell had a higher vertical than Dwight. He was an Olympic caliber high jumper at the time.
Prove it.

Here's Dwight

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/3792651_f520.jpg

http://everyjoe.com/files/2007/11/dwight-howard-kissing-rim.jpg

http://dogandponyshowwebsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dwighthowardsupermandunk.jpg

[LosBulls]

I'm pretty sure Bill Russell had a higher vertical than Dwight. He was an Olympic caliber high jumper at the time.
You do realize High Jumping records from back then don't come close to what they are now?

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Imagine Wilt Chamberlain with modern fitness training and steroid usage.

:bowdown:

[Deuce Bigalow]

And just think, Ben Wallace measured over 2 inches shorter than Russell w/o shoes and weighed over 100lbs less than Shaq - stop reaching Deuce, cherry picking pics isn't going to change the fact that Wilt's peak is the Everest of NBA peaks. Your going on ignore list if you keep sidebarring my thread. I don't feel like hearing your bullshit, once people go on my ignore list they never get removed.
You think Wilt could just do whatever he wanted and get any post position he wants against this guy?

http://www.gq.com/images/slideshows/mens/standalone/gq/feature/1106/athletes/00016f.jpghttp://detroitsportsnation.com/pistons24seconds/files/2012/01/Ben-Wallace11.jpghttp://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/ben_wallace2.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

He went toe to toe with Wilt Chamberlain, who had unprecedented physical abilities. :no:




Height: 7-1
Weight: Varied from 265 to 320 lbs
Vertical: 40+ inches
Wingspan: 7-8
Standing Reach: 9-6
Hand Length: 9.5"
Hand Spread: 11.5"
Bench Press: 500 lbs
Deadlift: 625 lbs
Clean & Jerk: 435 lbs
Shoulder Press: 400 lbs
40 yard dash: 4.6 seconds (Barefoot & wearing a suit/tie)
440 yard dash: 49.0 seconds
880 yard dash: 1:58.3
High Jump: 6-6
Broad Jump: 22 feet
Shot Put: 53 feet, 4 inches

Correction on high jump 6-6.75 and broad jump 22 feet 8 inches

also 46 feet 2.5 inch triple jump

shot put / 880 / 440 is likely not 100% solid figures - (it isn't verifiable as he didn't compete in them in the NCAA)

And Bill Russell had a 6-9.25 high jump and a 23 foot broad jump. :D

[Deuce Bigalow]

Vertical: 40+ inches
Bench Press: 500 lbs
Deadlift: 625 lbs
Clean & Jerk: 435 lbs
Shoulder Press: 400 lbs

:roll:

[PHILA]

high jump 6-6.75 and broad jump 22 feet 8 inches

also 46 feet 2.5 inch triple jump

And Bill Russell had a 6-9.25 high jump and a 23 foot broad jump.

:applause:

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

You think Wilt could just do whatever he wanted and get any post position he wants against this guy?

http://www.gq.com/images/slideshows/mens/standalone/gq/feature/1106/athletes/00016f.jpghttp://detroitsportsnation.com/pistons24seconds/files/2012/01/Ben-Wallace11.jpghttp://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/ben_wallace2.jpg

Look at a picture of Lakers Wilt. Then add steroids and modern fitness training.

He'd eat Ben Wallace for lunch.

[PHILA]

:roll:


As a skinny rookie in '59, Chamberlain could clean & jerk 265 lbs & military press 210 lbs. By the mid 60's those numbers increased to 435 lbs & 400 lbs. According to esteemed author Gary M. Pomerantz in Wilt, 1962: The Night of 100 Points And the Dawn of a New Era, Chamberlain could deadlift 625 lbs. Today his playing weight would likely be around 315-320 lbs, which was not as suited for the up & down style of the era. Remember he did report to camp 315.


http://i.imgur.com/F8ayu.png
http://i.imgur.com/7Nkzu.png
http://i.imgur.com/YRmNb.png


Meriden Journal - Sep 6, 1963 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CqxIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xwANAAAAIBAJ&pg=3715,469887&dq)

http://i.imgur.com/9hHKU.png







Sports Illustrated - October 26, 1959

Consider the following: he has run the quarter mile in 49 seconds flat, bettered 6 feet 7 in the high jump, put the shot 51 feet, can lift 265 pounds in the clean-and-jerk and 210 in the military press. For none of these feats did Chamberlain prepare himself through normal training; they were casual, offhand achievements by an athlete who has always devoted his free time and effort to basketball.





The Miami News - Nov 7, 1962

'He can clean and jerk a 375-lb. weight, run the quarter mile in 47s, and high-jump over 6-11.'




[I]November 29, 1965

NEW YORK (NEA)

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is what a real 40+" vertical looks like


http://dallaspenn.com/pics/albums/album02/spudwebb1.jpg

[Legends66NBA7]

Don't see a difference

So your just going to bail on the videos you posted ? Okay.

[CavaliersFTW]

Look at a picture of Lakers Wilt. Then add steroids and modern fitness training.

He'd eat Ben Wallace for lunch.
And keep in mind Wallace - no matter how buff - is 6-7 listed 240 (prob topped out closer to 255, 260)

Wilt is 7'1 w/o shoes and when he lifted with Arnie weighed 327. Sh*t, even as a scrawny rookie Wilt weighed 258.

[KOBE143]

Reenactment of Wilt's 100 point game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFxzqt8Gr6I&feature=related

[Legends66NBA7]

Wilt is 7'1 w/o shoes and when he lifted with Arnie weighed 327.

Wait, he weight trained with Arnold ?

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Wait, he weight trained with Arnold ?

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ2MTM3MjY1Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzA3NjEzNA@@._ V1._SX640_SY428_.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Wait, he weight trained with Arnold ?
Not sure if "with" he actually might have just lifted on his own for most of the period he was working with him for a movie (though friends of Wilt's do suggest he lifted in the gym with Arnie at least once) - I just know that he weight trained pretty much his whole life but was particularly active for / during the production of Conan the Destroyer - and at the time he was weighed at a very trim looking 327lbs

http://www.thisisnotporn.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Wilt-Chamberlain-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-and-Andre-the-Giant.jpg

[PHILA]

Wait, he weight trained with Arnold ?

http://articles.philly.com/2012-01-10/sports/30612013_1_elevator-sixers-new-appreciation

January 10, 2012

I will be 55 in a few months, the age he was when I interviewed him. This gives me a whole new appreciation for that interview. It is natural at this age to reflect on one's decisions in life, to contemplate making the most of the good years that remain.

Wilt seemed in far better shape then than I am now, absolutely no gut, sculpted in his tight T-shirt. The world never fully appreciated what an athlete he was. During the filming of Conan the Destroyer, with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Wilt said he put five 50-pound weights on his rib cage, elevated his feet on an incline board, and did 30 sit-ups.

"Arnold couldn't believe it," Wilt said. "He wouldn't even try it."

When I met him that day in 1991, the Sixers had just retired his number, and he told me that was "the most moving day of my life." So many fans thanking him. "I should have been the one saying 'Thank you,' " he said.

Wilt died in 1999.

He would have loved the video homage to him the Sixers showed Monday night and will again many times this season to reconnect the team with its legacy.

The man was undeniably Philadelphia's greatest homegrown athlete. He was large, and he was larger than life. And thanks, Wilt, for sharing one day with me.

[CavaliersFTW]

You do realize High Jumping records from back then don't come close to what they are now?
You do realize the technique changed don't you? (The fosbury flop adds a foot of potential height).

[Legends66NBA7]

Damn guys, your quick on this. Thanks. :cheers:

I had watched Conan the Destroyer not too long ago, actually, and thought Wilt was in great shape at the time. Hard to imagine he was in his 50's.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Trench Richardson can bench press 475: http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trent_richardson.jpghttp://www.theclevelandfan.com/images/stories/Browns/trent-richardson-beast.jpg

Michael Pittman: 485 lbs: http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee350/Jarg007/michaelpittman.jpg

Vernon Davis: bench-pressed 465 pounds, power-cleaned 365 pounds -http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee350/Jarg007/vernondavis.jpg



And this guy can do 500?....http://g.cdn.mersap.com/basquetbol/files/2010/07/wilt2.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwS6dxlR6g

Oh look, here's the weak un-athletic 6 foot white center Wilt faced his MVP / Ring season in the NBA Finals :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://articles.philly.com/2012-01-10/sports/30612013_1_elevator-sixers-new-appreciation

January 10, 2012

I will be 55 in a few months, the age he was when I interviewed him. This gives me a whole new appreciation for that interview. It is natural at this age to reflect on one's decisions in life, to contemplate making the most of the good years that remain.

Wilt seemed in far better shape then than I am now, absolutely no gut, sculpted in his tight T-shirt. The world never fully appreciated what an athlete he was. During the filming of Conan the Destroyer, with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Wilt said he put five 50-pound weights on his rib cage, elevated his feet on an incline board, and did 30 sit-ups.

"Arnold couldn't believe it," Wilt said. "He wouldn't even try it."

When I met him that day in 1991, the Sixers had just retired his number, and he told me that was "the most moving day of my life." So many fans thanking him. "I should have been the one saying 'Thank you,' " he said.

Wilt died in 1999.

He would have loved the video homage to him the Sixers showed Monday night and will again many times this season to reconnect the team with its legacy.

The man was undeniably Philadelphia's greatest homegrown athlete. He was large, and he was larger than life. And thanks, Wilt, for sharing one day with me.
You think Wilt was as strong as Arnold?

[CavaliersFTW]

Trench Richardson can bench press 475: http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trent_richardson.jpghttp://www.theclevelandfan.com/images/stories/Browns/trent-richardson-beast.jpg

Michael Pittman: 485 lbs: http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee350/Jarg007/michaelpittman.jpg

Vernon Davis: bench-pressed 465 pounds, power-cleaned 365 pounds -http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee350/Jarg007/vernondavis.jpg



And this guy can do 500?....http://g.cdn.mersap.com/basquetbol/files/2010/07/wilt2.jpg
And out of curiosity I just looked up he only weighs 250lbs? :lol

300+ Wilt >>>>>>>>>>>>

Don't care how jacked a guy looks, if Wilt is a much bigger guy than all of those guys he is very plausibly able to be stronger than them by simple scaling of his muscle mass alone let alone unforseen physical gifts he may have such as high-twitch muscle fiber. He is proportioned like a solid strong athlete except he is upscaled to gargantuan proportions. The rules of physics that apply to these smaller guys don't apply to Wilt, he's naturally got a bigger frame than they do. Can't understand how your so dense that you don't understand this. U seriously must be trolling :oldlol:

[Quickening]

And out of curiosity I just looked up he only weighs 250lbs? :lol

300+ Wilt >>>>>>>>>>>>

Don't care how jacked a guy looks, if Wilt is a much bigger guy than all of those guys he is very plausibly able to be stronger than them by simple scaling of his muscle mass alone let alone unforseen physical gifts he may have such as high-twitch muscle fiber. He is proportioned like a solid strong athlete except he is upscaled to gargantuan proportions. The rules of physics that apply to these small but jacked guys don't apply to Wilt, he's naturally got a bigger frame than they do. Can't understand how your so dense that you don't understand this. U seriously must be trolling :oldlol:

Coming from someone who has obviously never benched shit in his life.... zero chance Wilt benched 500 pounds.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And out of curiosity I just looked up he only weighs 250lbs? :lol

300+ Wilt >>>>>>>>>>>>

Don't care how jacked a guy looks, Wilt is a much bigger guy than all of those guys. He is proportioned like a solid strong athlete except he is upscaled to gargantuan proportions. The rules of physics that apply to these small but jacked guys don't apply to Wilt, he's naturally got a bigger frame than they do. Can't understand how your so dense that you don't understand this. U seriously must be trolling :oldlol:
:facepalm

The longer and taller you are, the more range of motion.

You seriously are an idiot, you and your old delusional dementia Wilt buddies.
400 pound shoulder press? :facepalm 500 pouund bench press:facepalm
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
40-50" vert :facepalm :facepalm

[DatAsh]

You do realize High Jumping records from back then don't come close to what they are now?

They used a completely different technique.

[Poetry]

You think Wilt could just do whatever he wanted and get any post position he wants against this guy?

http://www.gq.com/images/slideshows/mens/standalone/gq/feature/1106/athletes/00016f.jpghttp://detroitsportsnation.com/pistons24seconds/files/2012/01/Ben-Wallace11.jpghttp://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/ben_wallace2.jpg

Shaq had his way. 20+ points in 20/23 regular season head-to-head match ups.

I'm sure Wilt would do just fine.

[CavaliersFTW]

:facepalm

The longer and taller you are, the more range of motion.

You seriously are an idiot, you and your old delusional dementia Wilt buddies.
400 pound shoulder press? :facepalm 500 pouund bench press:facepalm
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
40-50" vert :facepalm :facepalm
:roll: mad as hell

all his apparent physical disadvantages he should have had due to leverage never stopped him from doing anything - such as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSOHMtPvz8&t=1m3s
(note the full rack on his lat-pulldowns)

Wilt didn't move like he was long... he moved like a genuine athlete. That's what people like you can't accept, - that he wasn't an ordinary big man - he was an incredible athlete. The exception to all of the rules. Not an example of your average joe bound by them. What you think big tall people should be like, isn't what he was like that's why people were so amazed with him. That's why he does sh*t in his highlights that even Shaq didn't do. That's why his peak >>>>>>>>> any other players.

[coin24]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wilt fanboys:lol Your mountain lion wrestling, 20000 women fu*king hero would be a scrub in todays league... JaVale McGee at best:lol

Better than MJ or Shaq??? :roll: You have got to be fu*king joking!!!!

[coin24]

:facepalm

The longer and taller you are, the more range of motion.

You seriously are an idiot, you and your old delusional dementia Wilt buddies.
400 pound shoulder press? :facepalm 500 pouund bench press:facepalm
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
40-50" vert :facepalm :facepalm


THIS....


I love when people who have never lifted weights bullshit about figures like that...
If you're taller/long armed, you have a much longer range of motion. Its WAY easier for shorter/stockier guys to lift heavier on presses...

500 pound bench? No chance. 400 pound shoulder press?:roll:

Whats with all the stupid old farts coming out this offseason and crapping on about Wilt everyday???:confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

THIS....


I love when people who have never lifted weights bullshit about figures like that...
If you're taller/long armed, you have a much longer range of motion. Its WAY easier for shorter/stockier guys to lift heavier on presses...

500 pound bench? No chance. 400 pound shoulder press?:roll:

Whats with all the stupid old farts coming out this offseason and crapping on about Wilt everyday???:confusedshrug:
Right, every person who ever witnessed Wilt do something or other is a liar because a 20 year old couch expert like yourself "knows" about lifting :oldlol:

315lbs in this pic, 327lbs when he was working out in the 80's - and yall think he can't lift as much weight as 250lb people cause you sit on your pc's and look at pics of how much more "buff" the 6-3 250lb dudes looked in their professional photo shoots and football gear

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8LHD3s7-w48/UEa4VWs1xuI/AAAAAAAADlo/vYimbewa8TE/s640/Sequence%252001.Still001.jpg

Side by side Wilt would dwarf those people. Not just in height - but in stature and ever other dimension due to his significantly greater body mass.

[BlueandGold]

:roll: mad as hell

all his apparent physical disadvantages he should have had due to leverage never stopped him from doing anything - such as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSOHMtPvz8&t=1m3s
(note the full rack on his lat-pulldowns)

Wilt didn't move like he was long... he moved like a genuine athlete. That's what people like you can't accept, - that he wasn't an ordinary big man - he was an incredible athlete. The exception to all of the rules. Not an example of your average joe bound by them. What you think big tall people should be like, isn't what he was like that's why people were so amazed with him. That's why he does sh*t in his highlights that even Shaq didn't do. That's why his peak >>>>>>>>> any other players.

Cavs.. what do you say to people who say that the # of possessions per game and pace of the 60s/70s was much faster than the 90s or 00s and also the fact that there were much less games to play during the season and especially in the playoffs, where you only had to win 2 playoff seasons for a championship :facepalm

Also just because wilt has the best peak as far as numbers makes him the superior peak player. It's a little fishy that Wilt's peak was 5 years apart (you said his peak was in 62 and 67) while Jordan had essentially a decade long peak and Shaq a little less (7-8 years).

Also both Jordan and Shaq had much more impressive playoff and finals peaks than wilt, showing up big when it really mattered. Both were also forced to play much more playoff games to win their champions (16 games to 8).

[Deuce Bigalow]

Right, every person who ever witnessed Wilt do something or other is a liar because a 20 year old couch expert like yourself "knows" about lifting :oldlol:

315lbs in this pic, 327lbs when he was working out in the 80's - and yall think he can't lift as much weight as 250lb people cause you sit on your pc's and look at pics of how much more "buff" the 6-3 250lb dudes looked in their professional photo shoots and football gear

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8LHD3s7-w48/UEa4VWs1xuI/AAAAAAAADlo/vYimbewa8TE/s640/Sequence%252001.Still001.jpg

Side by side Wilt would dwarf those people. Not just in height - but in stature and ever other dimension due to his significant amount of greater body mass.
No one is saying he isn't strong.

And no he would not dwarf people that are stronger than him. He would just be taller.

[PHILA]

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/chat.htm


NBA legend Wilt Chamberlain 4-18-97

Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
M3 says:
Question for Wilt...watched you bench press about 465 lbs like it was a match stick at the Stanford gym when you were working out there for some reason...how much can you still push up?

Host Wilt_Chamberlain says:
Well, probably I can push up a little more than that right now, because I was bench pressing some great weights. I was a shot-putter and lifting weights was a great joy to me. I liked to show off, I don't do that anymore, but I could probably bench press more than 465 pounds now.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/chat.htm


NBA legend Wilt Chamberlain 4-18-97

Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
M3 says:
Question for Wilt...watched you bench press about 465 lbs like it was a match stick at the Stanford gym when you were working out there for some reason...how much can you still push up?

Host Wilt_Chamberlain says:
Well, probably I can push up a little more than that right now, because I was bench pressing some great weights. I was a shot-putter and lifting weights was a great joy to me. I liked to show off, I don't do that anymore, but I could probably bench press more than 465 pounds now.
So 2 years before he died he could bench press more than 465 pounds?

[CavaliersFTW]

So 2 years before he died he could bench press more than 465 pounds?
He thinks he can - that doesn't mean he actually could. What comes out of his mouth wasn't the important bit, he's always exaggerated or been over-confident in his own abilities to some extent. But it's what the other person says is the important bit. I like how you glossed right over it lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ok, you guys can stick to your high amount of weight Wilt could pick up.

But, lets talk about vertical because we actually have picture of Wilt.

40"+ vertical looks like

http://dallaspenn.com/pics/albums/album02/spudwebb1.jpg
http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2345247.jpg
http://i1.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens9187791module81279371photo_1264468455vin ce_carter_vertical.jpg

Please no bullshit quotes, or that one video that makes me lol everytime cavs or jlolber uses

[coin24]

Right, every person who ever witnessed Wilt do something or other is a liar because a 20 year old couch expert like yourself "knows" about lifting :oldlol:

315lbs in this pic, 327lbs when he was working out in the 80's - and yall think he can't lift as much weight as 250lb people cause you sit on your pc's and look at pics of how much more "buff" the 6-3 250lb dudes looked in their professional photo shoots and football gear

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8LHD3s7-w48/UEa4VWs1xuI/AAAAAAAADlo/vYimbewa8TE/s640/Sequence%252001.Still001.jpg

Side by side Wilt would dwarf those people. Not just in height - but in stature and ever other dimension due to his significantly greater body mass.


Actually i've been lifting for close to 10 years now, obviously you never have as you believe bullshit figures like those:lol
I think its you who sits behind his PC watching shitty old footage of Wilt and fapping. Telling all of us how much he weighed and how great he was:lol


Worse than a LeBron stan...

[CavaliersFTW]

Ok, you guys can stick to your high amount of weight Wilt could pick up.

But, lets talk about vertical because we actually have picture of Wilt.

40"+ vertical looks like

http://dallaspenn.com/pics/albums/album02/spudwebb1.jpg
http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2345247.jpg
http://i1.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens9187791module81279371photo_1264468455vin ce_carter_vertical.jpg

Please no bullshit quotes, or that one video that makes me lol everytime cavs or jlolber uses
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WtOXPzNdgQM/T0xwAy-SLYI/AAAAAAAADFA/uW-0_meZdeM/s800/Corbis-U1257039.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SmzQLSELikw/UExn_Pq-AmI/AAAAAAAADnI/lAKbmCWEfpo/s800/IMG_3884.jpg

[coin24]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WtOXPzNdgQM/T0xwAy-SLYI/AAAAAAAADFA/uW-0_meZdeM/s800/Corbis-U1257039.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SmzQLSELikw/UExn_Pq-AmI/AAAAAAAADnI/lAKbmCWEfpo/s800/IMG_3884.jpg


Solid 20" vert:bowdown:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2007/02/05/502880/WiltChamberlainKansas2.jpghttp://www.texarkanagazette.com/Entertainment-Blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/wilt-dunking.jpg
http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/wilt_chamberlain_1971_01_01.jpg

Clearly not 40"

[Deuce Bigalow]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WtOXPzNdgQM/T0xwAy-SLYI/AAAAAAAADFA/uW-0_meZdeM/s800/Corbis-U1257039.jpg
Why post this one? It obviously an angle from the ground looking up
Nothing is even close to level.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2007/02/05/502880/WiltChamberlainKansas2.jpghttp://www.texarkanagazette.com/Entertainment-Blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/wilt-dunking.jpg
http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/wilt_chamberlain_1971_01_01.jpg

Clearly not 40"
:facepalm :roll:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4376/michaeljordan.jpg

2 can play this game. Same logic, MJ = "Clearly not 40". In fact, looks like he can barely squeak it over the rim! Gotta love cherry picking images.

[CavaliersFTW]

Why post this one? It obviously an angle from the ground looking up
Nothing is even close to level.
:oldlol: all the pics u posted are from "the ground looking up" genius

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm :roll:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4376/michaeljordan.jpg

2 can play this game. Same logic, MJ = "Clearly not 40". In fact, looks like he can barely squeak it over the rim! Gotta love cherry picking images.
Except I can find dozens of him at the rim

http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Michael-Jordan-vertical-3.jpg

http://www.nbadunks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/MichaelJordan1985.jpg

[oolalaa]

Ok, you guys can stick to your high amount of weight Wilt could pick up.

But, lets talk about vertical because we actually have picture of Wilt.

40"+ vertical looks like

http://dallaspenn.com/pics/albums/album02/spudwebb1.jpg
http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2345247.jpg
http://i1.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens9187791module81279371photo_1264468455vin ce_carter_vertical.jpg

Please no bullshit quotes, or that one video that makes me lol everytime cavs or jlolber uses

Perception. Do you not realise that vertical jumps appear greater the smaller the person is?

:oldlol: at you posting pics of 5"7 Spud Webb IN A DUNK COMPETITION, 6"5 Jordan after a LOOONG run up with his legs bent back IN A DUNK COMPETITION, and T-Mac sitting on someones ****ing shoulders!! Not disingenuous at all :banana:

[WillC]

There should be no debate about it: Wilt Chamberlain had the best peak ever.

The man was dominant.

Btw, the WIP video is superb. Keep up the great work.

[Punpun]

The guy two posts above me mistook ****ING VINCE CARTER for T-Mac.

:yaohappy:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Perception. Do you not realise that vertical jumps appear greater the smaller the person is?

:oldlol: at you posting pics of 5"7 Spud Webb IN A DUNK COMPETITION, 6"5 Jordan after a LOOONG run up with his legs bent back IN A DUNK COMPETITION, and T-Mac sitting on someones ****ing shoulders!! Not disingenuous at all :banana:
No, that is not true at all

vertical is how far you leave the ground. Doesn't matter how tall, 40" off the ground will look like 40" off the ground if that is what they have. Spud's is nearly 50".

Wilt doesn't have a 40" vert.Hell, some of you old poeple think Wilt had a 50" vert :roll:

[WillC]

Who gives a shit what his vertical is? :facepalm

[oolalaa]

The guy two posts above me mistook ****ING VINCE CARTER for T-Mac.

:yaohappy:

They're ****ing cousins, give me a break!! :oldlol: They look eerily similar in that photo. Even with you saying that it's hard to tell.

[Punpun]

They're ****ing cousins, give me a break!! :oldlol: They look eerily similar in that photo. Even with you saying that it's hard to tell.

Dude, no. This is one of the most iconic dunk ever. The DUNK OF DEATH BRUH. HE DUNKED OVER A 7"0+ guy . OVER HIM. During the olympics.

Carter.

:bowdown:

[coin24]

They're ****ing cousins, give me a break!! :oldlol: They look eerily similar in that photo. Even with you saying that it's hard to tell.


You talking about the Vince Olympic dunk???

Its up there with the most famous dunks ever:oldlol:

[Punpun]

Who gives a shit what his vertical is? :facepalm

Jlauber.

[WillC]

They're ****ing cousins, give me a break!! :oldlol: They look eerily similar in that photo. Even with you saying that it's hard to tell.

....but it's arguably the most iconic dunk of the 2000s. Everyone knows it's Vince Carter.

[oolalaa]

So, apparently, there is a black hole in my memory :cry: My only defense is that I wasn't heavily into hoops in the early 2000s.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan would have averaged like 38-46 ppg/10+ reb/7+ ast back then depending on the season and would have had games of 80+ points a few times. Not sure why you don't think it's debatable that he, Shaq, and possibly KAJ had better peaks.

[WillC]

Jordan would have averaged like 38-46 ppg/10+ reb/7+ ast back then depending on the season and would have had games of 80+ points a few times. Not sure why you don't think it's debatable that he, Shaq, and possibly KAJ had better peaks.

But Jordan didn't play back then :facepalm

[Soundwave]

I haven't seen a lot of that footage, but man Wilt was a monster of a man.

You see him take Kareem to school a few times in that video, pretty cool.

[jlip]

Jordan would have averaged like 38-46 ppg/10+ reb/7+ ast back then depending on the season and would have had games of 80+ points a few times. Not sure why you don't think it's debatable that he, Shaq, and possibly KAJ had better peaks.

MJ's assists would be less had he played in the 60's, not more. '85-'90 is probably the most assist inflated era in league history. Those years are to assists what the 60's were to rebounds. During the 60's only 2 players ever reached double digit assists for a season (Guy Rogers and Big O), and the high was 11.48apg. From '85-'90, which includes MJ's highest assist seasons, multiple players were topping 12apg, maxing out at 14+, and doing it in less than 40mpg. It took Big O 45mpg to reach his 11 assists.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ast_per_g_yearly.html

[OldSchoolBBall]

MJ's assists would be less had he played in the 60's, not more. '85-'90 is probably the most assist inflated era in league history. Those years are to assists what the 60's were to rebounds. During the 60's only 2 players ever reached double digit assists for a season (Guy Rogers and Big O), and the high was 11.48apg. From '85-'90, which includes MJ's highest assist seasons, multiple players were topping 12apg, maxing out at 14+, and doing it in less than 40mpg. It took Big O 45mpg to reach his 11 assists.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ast_per_g_yearly.html

I never suggested MJ would average 10+ assists (unless he was scoring only 25-33 ppg instead of 40+ ppg), but he would almost certainly average 7 assists simply due to the defensive attention he would draw as well as his aggressive playing style.

[Asukal]

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/chat.htm


NBA legend Wilt Chamberlain 4-18-97

Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
M3 says:
Question for Wilt...watched you bench press about 465 lbs like it was a match stick at the Stanford gym when you were working out there for some reason...how much can you still push up?

Host Wilt_Chamberlain says:
Well, probably I can push up a little more than that right now, because I was bench pressing some great weights. I was a shot-putter and lifting weights was a great joy to me. I liked to show off, I don't do that anymore, but I could probably bench press more than 465 pounds now.

You know what? Wilt is the Chuck Norris of basketball. :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Taking into account competition, impact, all-around skills, postseason play, and intangibles (leadership, play in crunchtime, etc) - it's still MJ.

[CavaliersFTW]

Taking into account competition, all-around skillset, impact, postseason play, and intangibles - leadership, play in crunchtime, etc - it's still MJ.
:oldlol: nope - MJ has no case here

[shaq2000]

OP doesn't understand peak. Wilt's was nowhere near the level of Shaq's or Jordan's. If you want to talk about careers, longevity or individual talent, sure. Wilt is somewhere in the mix. But peaks? Wilt shouldn't be in the conversation. #3 at the absolute best. Shaq's and Jordan's peak years were utter dominance.

[CavaliersFTW]

Jordan would have averaged like 38-46 ppg/10+ reb/7+ ast back then depending on the season and would have had games of 80+ points a few times. Not sure why you don't think it's debatable that he, Shaq, and possibly KAJ had better peaks.
:biggums:


Ridiculous. No. Peak MJ would be lucky to average Baylors partial season avg of 38ppg for a full season on slightly better efficiency in "Wilt's era". 46ppg is stupid to even suggest. MJ's peak is not miles beyond Oscars, or Baylors, or Barry's, or Jerry West's. You transport him into the era with increased offensive charge calls or particularly the few seasons with a narrower lane the guy is not going to be touching 40 points per game that is a totally baseless and random number you came up with.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol: nope - MJ has no case here

Don't be a fool.

[CavaliersFTW]

OP doesn't understand peak. Wilt's was nowhere near the level of Shaq's or Jordan's. If you want to talk about careers, longevity or individual talent, sure. Wilt is somewhere in the mix. But peaks? Wilt shouldn't be in the conversation. #3 at the absolute best. Shaq's and Jordan's peak years were utter dominance.
Shattering the record book by a mile and putting it so far out of reach that it still stands today with no challengers ever coming close isn't utter dominance? :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Don't be a fool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRo6RJNq6s

[magictricked]

Jordan would have averaged like 38-46 ppg/10+ reb/7+ ast back then depending on the season and would have had games of 80+ points a few times. Not sure why you don't think it's debatable that he, Shaq, and possibly KAJ had better peaks.First he'd have to learn to dribble the ball correctly. Jordan would be called for every violation known to mankind the way the game was called in the 60's. Traveling, palming, carry over. 75% of his moves would be illegal. Every crossover would result in a tweeeeet

[iamgine]

MJ's per 36 minutes ppg in '87 was 33 ppg.

Regarding Wilt's 50 point seasons...his per 36 minutes ppg was 'only' 37 ppg. Adjust that for pace it would be much lower. If you factor that by playing 48 minutes means he also played in a lot of garbage minutes against 60's scrubs it would be lower still. Nice stamina though...

[Young X]

If Wilt was way better than Shaq and MJ, then where do you rank George Mikan in comparison to them?

[Colbertnation64]

I really could not give a **** what his vertical leap was or how much he could bench press.

Watch the guys college games. The way he explodes in the air on a block attempt and runs up and down the court is out of this world. It's not how high he could jump, it's how he did it with such quickness. Just the way he could move around the court, jump, and run were comparable to a guard. Wilt would still kill the NBA today.

http://i.imgur.com/SXDDZ.png

[senelcoolidge]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/002TeaMeJUedn/653x.jpg
Wilt after this playing days.

http://sports.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/nba_g_oneal2_400.jpg
34-35 year old Shaq. I didn't want to post any of the Phoenix, Cleveland, or Boston pics..just not pretty.

Wilt took care of himself. The guy could have played into his 40's. Teams offered him contracts years after his retirement.
If you are 7'1" why do you need to jump more than 30-40 inches off the ground..not necessary, but Wilt does show it in some of the footage out there. A guy that is 5'7" or 6'6" needs every inch to get up higher, but a 7 footer doesn't have to jump that high for a 10 foot goal. Use some logic guys. Maybe if the basket was 12 or 13 feet high ok.

[ThunderStruk022]

:biggums:


Ridiculous. No. Peak MJ would be lucky to average Baylors partial season avg of 38ppg for a full season on slightly better efficiency in "Wilt's era". 46ppg is stupid to even suggest. MJ's peak is not miles beyond Oscars, or Baylors, or Barry's, or Jerry West's. You transport him into the era with increased offensive charge calls or particularly the few seasons with a narrower lane the guy is not going to be touching 40 points per game that is a totally baseless and random number you came up with.

Hey look, it's one of those 20-somethings who think it's cool to go against the grain and be 100% all about the old school players. We get it. You know your history. But to suggest MJ's peak wouldn't average even close to 40 ppg in an era where teams were getting an absurd amount of possessions (and just assuming he wouldn't adjust to the different rules) is just stupid. I mean at his scoring best he was averaged 33-37 ppg, so to suggest he wouldn't even touch 40 in the 60s is ignorant.

Wilt's peak is right up there at the top for me. It's Wilt, Shaq, and Jordan in some order. But come on dude, you can like the players that actually played in your lifetime, too. You don't have to be that extreme with your old school love.

[Mr Know It All]

Sports fans in general are usually moronic. No respect for the history of the game or other eras, just "my era is the best era" kind of bullshit that will make them cry when the same uninformed morons from another generation will call MJ overrated and say he played in a weak era.

The disrespect of Wilt on this board is flat out embarrassing.

[CavaliersFTW]

Hey look, it's one of those 20-somethings who think it's cool to go against the grain and be 100% all about the old school players. We get it. You know your history. But to suggest MJ's peak wouldn't average even close to 40 ppg in an era where teams were getting an absurd amount of possessions (and just assuming he wouldn't adjust to the different rules) is just stupid.

Wilt's peak is right up there at the top for me. It's Wilt, Shaq, and Jordan in some order. But come on dude, you can like the players that actually played in your lifetime, too. You don't have to be that extreme with your old school love.
MJ is oldschool too dipshit. And i've defended MJ many times on this forum but this specific topic is just a :facepalm

One man owns the recordbook by a mile and his name wasn't MJ, nor was it Shaq. People are making up so many excuses for MJ and / or Shaq. I'm only pointing out the obvious.

[ILLsmak]

Being by far the best player on a winning team trumps stats.

It's kind of like if someone was running the 100m and was blowing everyone out of the water then near the end his legs just broke off and he fell to the ground. People would forever be saying, "But if he had finished, it would have been legendary."

Others would say, "He didn't."

-Smak

[Odinn]

These Wilt-obssessed guys can be annoying... Like Kobe-stans.

[ThunderStruk022]

MJ is oldschool to dipshit. And i've defended MJ many times on this forum but this specific topic is just a :facepalm

One man owns the recordbook by a mile and his name wasn't MJ, nor was it Shaq. People are making up so many excuses for MJ and / or Shaq. I'm only pointing out the obvious.

You don't think Jordan, who averaged 35 and 37 ppg at his scoring best wouldn't touch 40 ppg in an era where the pace for teams was 20-30 possessions higher than the late 80s?

And when I say old school for you, dipshit, I mean the really old school. You seem to go to all ends to defends the players from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. If you're defending guys from later eras, that's cool and I apologize. I don't have a problem with you defending the guys from that era, but come one, your profile says your 25. It's ok to not always defend guys who played 30 years before you were born. I know you've seen a lot of film and stuff, but it's ok to appreciate the players that played in your lifetime, too.

[ThunderStruk022]

These Wilt-obssessed guys can be annoying... Like Kobe-stans.

Especially the ones in their 20s and 30s who weren't alive when he played and, for whatever reason, seem to think being all about the Wilt/Russell era guys is the cool thing to do. They think it's not as annoying as Kobe/Jordan/LeBron stans, but the old school/50s-70s stans can be just as annoying.

[Mach_3]

How the fcuk is that block at 1:25 not goaltending? That ball was CLEARLY coming down :lol


No wonder he had such crazy ass block games

[Pointguard]

Cavs.. what do you say to people who say that the # of possessions per game and pace of the 60s/70s was much faster than the 90s or 00s and also the fact that there were much less games to play during the season and especially in the playoffs, where you only had to win 2 playoff seasons for a championship :facepalm

Also just because wilt has the best peak as far as numbers makes him the superior peak player. It's a little fishy that Wilt's peak was 5 years apart (you said his peak was in 62 and 67) while Jordan had essentially a decade long peak and Shaq a little less (7-8 years).

Also both Jordan and Shaq had much more impressive playoff and finals peaks than wilt, showing up big when it really mattered. Both were also forced to play much more playoff games to win their champions (16 games to 8).

Not really. In the playoffs Wilt's had averages of in different seasons:
37/ 23/ 2
35/ 26.6/ 3.1
34.7/ 25.2/ 3.3
29.3/ 27.2/ 4.4
28/ 30.2/ 3
21.7/ 29.1/ 9


And who know how many blocks per game but I'm sure it was above 4. Which I would put up against Shaq's peak.

I'll quote the Legend below.



Legends66NBA7 writes:
In elimination games, from 1960-66, Wilt averaged 40ppg in 12 games. He had 3 of his 4 50+ point games were in those elimination games too. I don't have all the averages, but I'm pretty sure he's averaged in 20+ range in rebounds and his fg% is high.

In elimination games, from 1967-73, Wilt averaged 23ppg in 12 games (different roles). He wasn't the main scoring option anymore (he was defenive minded Wilt at this time), but still was able to pull out a 45/27 game, 30/27/11 blocks (reported), etc...


The bolded is a finals game.

So Wilt was stellar. I'll take 40 and 22 in playoff elimination games along with 33/26 playoff peak of 35 games and consider it among the best playoff/playoff elimination peaks.

[Young X]

One man owns the recordbook by a mile and his name wasn't MJ, nor was it Shaq. People are making up so many excuses for MJ and / or Shaq. I'm only pointing out the obvious.
What about owning the record book in the playoffs?

[Pointguard]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Sry kids, but.... no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSOHMtPvz8

No matter what way you try to slice it those guys peaks do not in any way shape or form touch Wilt's. Prime? Perhaps it's debatable due to rings if they are that important to you. But actual individual peak performance? GTFOH the guy owns the record book and nobody has ever even come close to rewriting it. Seriously some of these poll results are flat out embarrassing.
Anybody know the 26 blcok game referenced? Against who and when?

[ThunderStruk022]

Not really. In the playoffs Wilt's had averages of in different seasons:
37/ 23/ 2
35/ 26.6/ 3.1
34.7/ 25.2/ 3.3
29.3/ 27.2/ 4.4
28/ 30.2/ 3
21.7/ 29.1/ 9


And who know how many blocks per game but I'm sure it was above 4. Which I would put up against Shaq's peak.

I'll quote the Legend below.



The bolded is a finals game.

So Wilt was stellar. I'll take 40 and 22 in playoff elimination games along with 33/26 playoff peak of 35 games and consider it among the best playoff/playoff elimination peaks.

And we're just supposed to pretend Shaq's 40ish/20ish and 30/16 averages or so in a much slower era isn't just as impressive as Wilt's games?

You just can't take Wilt's numbers at face value, as impressive as they were. That goes for the blocks too (that wren't goal tends like some of the ones in the OP video). Like I said, Wilt's peak is right there at the top in my opinion. I'm also one that believes he would be a 30-33 ppg 15-17 rpg player in this era at his peak, too. I'm just saying you can't take Wilt's numbers at face value, especially when you compare them to Shaq's similar numbers in a much slower paced era.

[OldSchoolBBall]

:biggums:


Ridiculous. No. Peak MJ would be lucky to average Baylors partial season avg of 38ppg for a full season on slightly better efficiency in "Wilt's era". 46ppg is stupid to even suggest. MJ's peak is not miles beyond Oscars, or Baylors, or Barry's, or Jerry West's. You transport him into the era with increased offensive charge calls or particularly the few seasons with a narrower lane the guy is not going to be touching 40 points per game that is a totally baseless and random number you came up with.

You're out of your gourd if you don't think Jordan is averaging 43+ points for at least one season back then. Absolutely crazy.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Yeah, Jordan would never average 43 ppg despite owning seven of the eight best pace-normalized scoring seasons ever (points per 75 possessions). :oldlol: Guess whose name doesn't appear on that list? Wilt.

[Al Thornton]

this is especially insane because the op is like 14 wishing he was in his 70s

[CavaliersFTW]

You don't think Jordan, who averaged 35 and 37 ppg at his scoring best wouldn't touch 40 ppg in an era where the pace for teams was 20-30 possessions higher than the late 80s?

And when I say old school for you, dipshit, I mean the really old school. You seem to go to all ends to defends the players from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. If you're defending guys from later eras, that's cool and I apologize. I don't have a problem with you defending the guys from that era, but come one, your profile says your 25. It's ok to not always defend guys who played 30 years before you were born. I know you've seen a lot of film and stuff, but it's ok to appreciate the players that played in your lifetime, too.
It only looks like I defend the 60's and 70's more because a lot more hot garbage is said about those decades since it is devoid of readily available quality footage and coverage for fans to feast on. My all time favorite players to watch cover every decade like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, MJ, Dr. J, Hakeem, D-Rob, Shaq, Lebron (yes, even though he left Clev) - list goes on and on. I treat basketball like how I treat paleontology (for which I study and have done work for). Having any precoceived notions (such as "weak era") before looking thoroughly at evidence is absolutely retarded, I go by what I learned from film and other forms of archival data not what 16-30 year old Kobe stans (who only assume what they know based on limited evidence at best) have told me. From what I see with my own eyes with my now expansive library of content - the 60's and 70's was not "weak" (particularly big men) and the guy who owns the record book who happend to play during those years deservedly owns that record book. And the distinction of having the highest peak of all time.

I think MJ would hit the same scoring ceilings all the players (except Wilt) hit back then and for good reason. There is only one reason Wilt scored what he scored and that was because of a unique set of circumstances and a special relationship between himself and '62 coach Mark McGuire (also '67 coach Alex Hannum because I also believe '67 qualifies as a peak season of Wilt's). Literally if you knew why / how Wilt scored 50 and why nobody else could back then you'd know that he and he alone was only ever going to have such a green light in the first place. Everybody has run into the mid 30's scoring ceiling except Wilt. Hell, even Wilt himself would have had a sub 40ppg scoring ceiling if he hadn't been influenced by McGuire. Place Jordan on any team in the 60's (including Wilt's Warriors) and he isn't going to have the permission Wilt had - nor the stamina - to play "every minute" and touch every offensive posession. Nor could he make the same total game impact via rebounds / blocks / etc. The offensive #'s "pace" of the 60's gets balanced out with multiple offensive weapons - not super inflated single superstar stats. Wilt is the ONLY one of the 60's superstars who had 40+ he's an exception to the rule not an example of it, the rest had offensive #'s resembling stars from more recent era's like the 1980's-present. They blipped a little in '62 but it's no more of a blip than say, the blip the modern league had when they removed hand checking. Nobody (except Wilt) touched 40 a game. If MJ played back then he'd be sharing touches with players like Baylor, or Oscar, or Pettit, or some other star (or perhaps a handful of journeymen or veterans). Peak MJ's rebound numbers in the 60's would def be up, but his assists would be about the same, and his offensive numbers would be about the same.

[Legends66NBA7]

What about owning the record book in the playoffs?

Wilt does have some of that too.

But that's why Jordan's case for the GOAT really takes a strong notion.


And we're just supposed to pretend Shaq's 40ish/20ish and 30/16 averages or so in a much slower era isn't just as impressive as Wilt's games?

When I did post the numbers, the other stats I didn't have (which I really needed to look at) were FGA. Now, nobody saying Shaq wasn't a great elimination game player, but Wilt probably is the best ever, was my point. The thread I was responding too was talking about how Wilt always folded under pressure and I wasn't trying to compare eras there.


Yeah, Jordan would never average 43 ppg despite owning seven of the eight best pace-normalized scoring seasons ever (points per 75 possessions).

We don't know if Jordan would be the same player from 84-93,95-98,01-03... if he played in Wilt's era. He would completely different if he was born in that time, playing in his prime.


this is especially insane because the op is like 14 wishing he was in his 70s

Yeah, just forget learning about history ? :confusedshrug:

[Poochymama]

For those of you that are interested. Here are MJ's Wilt-minute-adjusted-pace-adjusted scoring numbers through the first three peat, respective to Wilt's first 9 seasons.

84-85: 45.7 ppg
85-86: NA - not capable of playing Wilt minutes due to injury
86-87: 61.1 ppg
87-88: 52.9 ppg
88-89: 44.0 ppg
89-90: 47.9 ppg
90-91: 51.2 ppg
91-92: 45.8 ppg
92-93: 52.0 ppg

I know there's more to it than that(how would they use him, would the guys back then guard him with the same efficiency that the guys in his time guarded him, how often would he be called for traveling :lol, how would the extra minutes affect his efficiency ), but it does help to put Jordan's first 9 seasons in somewhat close to the proper context. It's certainly more accurate than comparing their numbers straight up(non pace, non minute adjusted).

[CavaliersFTW]

For those of you that are interested. Here are MJ's Wilt-minute-adjusted-pace-adjusted scoring numbers through the first three peat, respective to Wilt's first 9 seasons.

84-85: 45.7 ppg
85-86: NA - not capable of playing Wilt minutes due to injury
86-87: 61.1 ppg
87-88: 52.9 ppg
88-89: 44.0 ppg
89-90: 47.9 ppg
90-91: 51.2 ppg
91-92: 45.8 ppg
92-93: 52.0 ppg

I know there's more to it than that(how would they use him, would the guys back then guard him with the same efficiency that the guys in his time guarded him, how often would he be called for traveling :lol, how would the extra minutes affect his efficiency ), but it does help to put Jordan's first 9 seasons in somewhat close to the proper context. It's certainly more accurate than comparing there numbers straight up(non pace, non minute adjusted).
Not capable of playing Wilt's minutes - at all.

[Poochymama]

Not capable of playing Wilt's minutes - at all.

You're deluded if you truly believe that. There are plenty of professional athletes in today's game capable of playing Wilt minutes, its just a different style of game and a different methodology concerning minutes.

Back then it was, play your best players until they're exhausted, and keep playing them regardless of the score. Now it's play your best players until their performance starts to dip because of fatigue(not the max they're capable of), and take them out of blowout games for respect.

[ThunderStruk022]

Not capable of playing Wilt's minutes - at all.

How in the hell do you know this? Why are you so god damn presumptuous with these statements? You don't think prime/peak Jordan, who was known for being insanely durable with incredible stamina, couldn't play 44+ minutes per game? I'm not saying he'd be playing Wilt's 45-48 mpg but weren't the other superstar players of that era playing 42-44 mpg? Why wouldn't Jordan be able to play Wilt minutes "at all"? That's like you're insinuating he wouldn't touch those minutes when there's not a major difference between 45-46 mpg and 43-44 mpg.

Dammit man, I agree with Wilt being absurd at his peak and worthy of GOAT peak consideration. But you're acting like it's not even up for discussion and then go as far to say Jordan wouldn't be capable of playing Wilt's minutes.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Not capable of playing Wilt's minutes - at all.

Jordan could EASILY play 43+ mpg. You're talking about perhaps the best conditioned athlete in NBA history when factoring in his energy level on both sides. Get a grip. :oldlol:

[-23-]

Not capable of playing Wilt's minutes - at all.


LOL you're a ****. Wilt played in blowout games like a fking dipshit.

[upside24]

Trench Richardson can bench press 475: http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trent_richardson.jpghttp://www.theclevelandfan.com/images/stories/Browns/trent-richardson-beast.jpg

Michael Pittman: 485 lbs: http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee350/Jarg007/michaelpittman.jpg

Vernon Davis: bench-pressed 465 pounds, power-cleaned 365 pounds -http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee350/Jarg007/vernondavis.jpg



And this guy can do 500?....http://g.cdn.mersap.com/basquetbol/files/2010/07/wilt2.jpg
Wilt was a god. You didn't know? Some of the proposed max lifts for Wilt are numbers usually reserved for professional bodybuilders on HGH and steriods and they are around 6 foot typically. Wilt, having extremely long arms would have more trouble locking out a heavy max bench. Same for a shoulder press.

That along with the sleeping with 10,000 women and killing a mountain lion story make it hard to believe that he had the kind of brute strength professional body builders with advanced anabolic compounds have to work years to develop

[Owl]

To be honest I'm confused about this discussion. On the one hand we have people casually dismissing Wilt's strength and athleticism as though the specific amount he could press or his vertical leap alters how remarkable an athlete he was. Then on the other hand we're getting that Wilt unquestionably has the best peak. There's no one who has it unquestionably. There are those who would pick Kareem who got no votes for first or second place or thus far third place here, for example http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=918286

We're all going to have different criteria. For some Wilt playing so many minutes is stat padding, to others it's a remarkable show of endurance and the added value in those extra minutes is one reason why he is more dominant (and of course some will be in the middle).

So claiming any one person should clearly have it, as though all other choices (and the posters who made them) were stupid seems, well, unusual. I, personally, was surprised that Shaq got so many votes, but then if the criteria was who was most undisputably the best player in the league then Shaqs 3 title winning span could claim it (because to my mind a youngish Duncan is weaker competition than Magic was for most of MJ's peak or Russell and Oscar were Chamberlain's peak), though one might choose Kareem. So the different criteria and interpretations we bring (a couple more areas where people would have different interpretations would be eras relative strengths and weighting of playoff performance) will inevitably lead us to different conclusions.

To those who think it is unquestionably Wilt (or anyone else), I'd honestly be interested to hear what span you'd choose as his peak, why it is so clearly the best peak, and if you don't have Wilt (or said other person) as the GOAT why are they not? i.e. where does Wilt (or said player) lose ground on the player you consider GOAT?

For what it's worth I don't think a forum is the optimal way of doing this as people will be influenced by the first voters and so vote pragmatically.

[DatAsh]

For what it's worth I don't think a forum is the optimal way of doing this as people will be influenced by the first voters and so vote pragmatically.

That's not always a bad thing though. Quality posts can influence subsequent votes in both a positive and negative fashion.

[Psileas]

For those of you that are interested. Here are MJ's Wilt-minute-adjusted-pace-adjusted scoring numbers through the first three peat, respective to Wilt's first 9 seasons.

84-85: 45.7 ppg
85-86: NA - not capable of playing Wilt minutes due to injury
86-87: 61.1 ppg
87-88: 52.9 ppg
88-89: 44.0 ppg
89-90: 47.9 ppg
90-91: 51.2 ppg
91-92: 45.8 ppg
92-93: 52.0 ppg

I know there's more to it than that(how would they use him, would the guys back then guard him with the same efficiency that the guys in his time guarded him, how often would he be called for traveling :lol, how would the extra minutes affect his efficiency ), but it does help to put Jordan's first 9 seasons in somewhat close to the proper context. It's certainly more accurate than comparing their numbers straight up(non pace, non minute adjusted).

Also, how would the pace affect the analogy of the percentage of shots he takes (faster pace=more distribution), while you'll have to remove the points generated from 3-pointers (convert them to 2-pointers).
It's a league with a different philosophy. Without using this context, it's difficult to extrapolate numbers as a means to see what X would average back then - it should be made more clear if you consider that in theory, many more guys from Jordan's era would have pace+minute adjusted ppg averages at 40+. Even prime Chris Mullin would have multiple "adjusted" seasons more prolific than any season by West or Oscar, or even peak Baylor and, sorry, but, Mullin wasn't a better scorer than those guys. People don't even use these types of adjustments for Kobe or LeBron compared to the 80's-90's to make such points.

Here's something to consider: 1974 Jerry West, at 36, with his whole body banged with injuries, would get a pace+minute adjusted average close to 30 ppg in "1962 terms", while a 1962 younger, healthier West himself "only" got 30.5. 1986 Kareem, at 39, would average an adjusted ppg average close to what 1972 Kareem averaged for the Bucks. Things look rather problematic, don't you think?

[LAClipsFan33]

Also, how would the pace affect the analogy of the percentage of shots he takes (faster pace=more distribution), while you'll have to remove the points generated from 3-pointers (convert them to 2-pointers).
It's a league with a different philosophy. Without using this context, it's difficult to extrapolate numbers as a means to see what X would average back then - it should be made more clear if you consider that in theory, many more guys from Jordan's era would have pace+minute adjusted ppg averages at 40+. Even prime Chris Mullin would have multiple "adjusted" seasons more prolific than any season by West or Oscar, or even peak Baylor and, sorry, but, Mullin wasn't a better scorer than those guys. People don't even use these types of adjustments for Kobe or LeBron compared to the 80's-90's to make such points.

Here's something to consider: 1974 Jerry West, at 36, with his whole body banged with injuries, would get a pace+minute adjusted average close to 30 ppg in "1962 terms", while a 1962 younger, healthier West himself "only" got 30.5. 1986 Kareem, at 39, would average an adjusted ppg average close to what 1972 Kareem averaged for the Bucks. Things look rather problematic, don't you think?

This is Ether...

[Owl]

That's not always a bad thing though. Quality posts can influence subsequent votes in both a positive and negative fashion.
Yeah, I tried to phrase it in such a manner that indicated that specifically tactics negatively influence voting. I would acknowledge that focused debate of a high calibre before a final vote (i.e. people could indicate preferences but can't vote until the discussion has been had) could be a very good thing. But besides tactical voting, another problem with the forum as a platform for such a debate is that you get elements of groupthink and people might not want to put an opinion that seems distinctly minority for fear of looking stupid. Anonymous (sealed) voting would be better for that (which wouldn't necessarily preclude debate, you could have it after a debate, and perhaps also before, to create a shortlist of candidates).

[BlueandGold]

Cavs.. what do you say to people who say that the # of possessions per game and pace of the 60s/70s was much faster than the 90s or 00s and also the fact that there were much less games to play during the season and especially in the playoffs, where you only had to win 2 playoff seasons for a championship :facepalm

Also just because wilt has the best peak as far as numbers makes him the superior peak player. It's a little fishy that Wilt's peak was 5 years apart (you said his peak was in 62 and 67) while Jordan had essentially a decade long peak and Shaq a little less (7-8 years).

Also both Jordan and Shaq had much more impressive playoff and finals peaks than wilt, showing up big when it really mattered. Both were also forced to play much more playoff games to win their champions (16 games to 8).

Posting this again so Cavs has the opportunity to respond.

[Soundwave]

A more relevant debate might be Wilt Vs. Kareem Abdul Jabbar since they actually played against each other.

[Poochymama]

Also, how would the pace affect the analogy of the percentage of shots he takes (faster pace=more distribution), while you'll have to remove the points generated from 3-pointers (convert them to 2-pointers).
It's a league with a different philosophy. Without using this context, it's difficult to extrapolate numbers as a means to see what X would average back then - it should be made more clear if you consider that in theory, many more guys from Jordan's era would have pace+minute adjusted ppg averages at 40+. Even prime Chris Mullin would have multiple "adjusted" seasons more prolific than any season by West or Oscar, or even peak Baylor and, sorry, but, Mullin wasn't a better scorer than those guys. People don't even use these types of adjustments for Kobe or LeBron compared to the 80's-90's to make such points.

Here's something to consider: 1974 Jerry West, at 36, with his whole body banged with injuries, would get a pace+minute adjusted average close to 30 ppg in "1962 terms", while a 1962 younger, healthier West himself "only" got 30.5. 1986 Kareem, at 39, would average an adjusted ppg average close to what 1972 Kareem averaged for the Bucks. Things look rather problematic, don't you think?

Don't take my post the wrong way(not that you did, but it appears others may have). My post wasn't meant to bash Wilt or the era, I was just trying to put things in a little bit better perspective.

I can't say I honestly believe that Jordan would average those numbers in Wilt's era, but I do believe those numbers are closer to what he'd average than what his numbers were in his own era. I do think Jordan was a slightly better scorer than Wilt(and definitely in the playoffs) and as such would tend to average slightly more ppg in any given area, but like you said, there's too many variables to truly account for to get an absolutely accurate figure.

As for who had the better peak? I think it's very debatable. Jordan was a slightly better scorer, better passer/playmaker, better in the clutch, and stepped his game up more for the playoffs/finals. Wilt was 90-95% the scorer Jordan was, a MUCH BETTER rebounder(I have him 2nd all time), and a much more impactfull defender(again I have him 2nd all time). If we're just talking regular season I'd go with Wilt for his rebounding and defense(67), but with playoffs included I'm leaning slightly in Jordan's favor.

To say that these two don't have comparable peaks is asinine.

[Pointguard]

And we're just supposed to pretend Shaq's 40ish/20ish and 30/16 averages or so in a much slower era isn't just as impressive as Wilt's games?
Just for clarity's sake, are you BlueandGold under another screename? I have responded to him before and another screen-name had come at me in a personal tone, and it wasn't your screenname. Shaq's best playoff run is 30 and 15 not 40 and 20ish. My response was to BlueandGold according to his context that Wilt was never impressive like Shaq in the playoffs. You have a different context. Doesn't make sense for me to respond to the same head in two different contexts.



You just can't take Wilt's numbers at face value, as impressive as they were. That goes for the blocks too (that wren't goal tends like some of the ones in the OP video). Like I said, Wilt's peak is right there at the top in my opinion. I'm also one that believes he would be a 30-33 ppg 15-17 rpg player in this era at his peak, too. I'm just saying you can't take Wilt's numbers at face value, especially when you compare them to Shaq's similar numbers in a much slower paced era.
Once again, this is another context. To you I will say Wilt's value is in relation to other players. If he's leads the league in everything he's dominant. In comparing peaks you can only measure the player against his peers. If Wilt had more separation, then it is more than likely he was more dominant. If any player now lead the league in ppg by 10% over seven years now he's going to be more impressive to us than Shaq was. If he did it while out rebounding a Dennis Rodman clone as well, we will look at the guy more impressively than we do Shaq. Pace won't factor into the argument at all. All things are relative and you know you lying if you think otherwise.

[Pointguard]

When I did post the numbers, the other stats I didn't have (which I really needed to look at) were FGA. Now, nobody saying Shaq wasn't a great elimination game player, but Wilt probably is the best ever, was my point. The thread I was responding too was talking about how Wilt always folded under pressure and I wasn't trying to compare eras there.

You didn't need to explain yourself, that quote was on me and it fit appropiately by itself.

[magictricked]

also the fact that there were much less games to play during the season
Blue and Gold they've been playing 80 plus games a season since 1960

[Poetry]

The guy two posts above me mistook ****ING VINCE CARTER for T-Mac.

:yaohappy:

lol :lol

[Legends66NBA7]

You didn't need to explain yourself, that quote was on me and it fit appropiately by itself.

Okay then.