Defense at the PG position?

[fpliii]

Throughout league history there has always been a premium on man post defense (not so much today), help defense, anchoring a defense, and perimeter man defense (especially today, considering the new hand-checking standards have pushed the game outwards, though defenders have fewer weapons). But what about PGs guarding PGs? How important is it for your guy to guard his man? How much effort do you want him to exert on that end?

Who are the top defensive PGs today (you can reward versatility if you'd like, for guys who can guard wings as well)? All-time?

[#number6ix#]

Westbrook, Bradley, shumpert come to mind first for me... It's so hard to stay in front of any point guard plus no hand checking almost makes it impossible to b a lockdown defender at da point

[Fiasco]

Mike Conley is probably the best, actual point guard on defense. Rondo is cool too. Bradley + Shump I don't count cause they play 2 as well.

[fpliii]

Westbrook, Bradley, shumpert come to mind first for me... It's so hard to stay in front of any point guard plus no hand checking almost makes it impossible to b a lockdown defender at da point

good nominations


Mike Conley is probably the best, actual point guard on defense. Rondo is cool too. Bradley + Shump I don't count cause they play 2 as well.

what about CP3?

[IGOTGAME]

Pg defense has become a lot more important because of new rules and emergence of these ultra attacking pgs.

I would say that guys like Rubio, Conley, CP3 and Rondo are tops.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Read the book: "How to dismantle a Lakers Squad"

Co-Written by JJ Barea & Westbrook

Special Thanks to: Derek Fisher, Ramon Sesions, Steve Blake.

[Clippersfan86]

Eric Bledsoe, CP3 two of the top 5 PG defenders on the same team. Bradley and Rondo are also top 5 PG defenders on the same team. Then you have next tier guys.like Rubio and Conley.

[imdaman99]

Mike Conley is probably the best, actual point guard on defense. Rondo is cool too. Bradley + Shump I don't count cause they play 2 as well.
Conley is not the best, Westbrook dominated him in the Grizzlies series last year. Unless you're talking about past year, where CP3 ran amok on him. He has great steal #s, but that hardly means he plays great defense. It means he is a gambler and plays the passing lanes.

I nominate Westbrook. He can lock down most PGs and plenty of SGs too. Rondo is pretty good as well, although he has his problems with the Roses and Westbrooks of the world. To a lesser extent, Eric Bledsoe too. But he gets so much less burn than the rest.

[Clippersfan86]

Westbrook is in the Conley, Rubio tier IMO. So top 5 to 7 ish.

[knickscity]

Rondo is probably the best.

Conley is pretty good.

I really don't chris Paul is elite, but he gets alot of steals.

[IGotACoolStory]

I always thought Billups was one of the better defensive point guards. Not sure how much now after his injury and aging a bit.

Lowry's not bad either.

[Clippersfan86]

Rondo is probably the best.

Conley is pretty good.

I really don't chris Paul is elite, but he gets alot of steals.

You realize almost all of CP3's steals are man D right? Unlike Rondo who's elite off the ball CP3.is an elite on ball defender. If he was a couple inches taller he'd be a Gary Payton type with his tenacity and effort on D.

[yobore]

CP can really ratchet up the D but he has one glaring weakness which is when you put him on guys who can catch and shoot they are not scared of him contesting at all. At the end of games though he is my pick because of his intensity, ball pressure, and the fact that the refs let him hack people.

[mattvNJ]

Mike Conley is probably the best, actual point guard on defense. Rondo is cool too. Bradley + Shump I don't count cause they play 2 as well.

despite being biased id have to agree, rondo, sump and conley all are great defenders at the pg spot. I expect conley to solidify his spot as one of the better pg's in the league this season.

[Suckafree]

How does John Wall go on D?
He looks like he should be elite on that end of the floor

[theaussieguy]

i thought it was pretty much a widely accepted fact Rondo has the best overall defense as a PG with his 6'10 wingspan

[fsvr54]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNdGNWM--nQ

[CavaliersFTW]

You realize almost all of CP3's steals are man D right? Unlike Rondo who's elite off the ball CP3.is an elite on ball defender. If he was a couple inches taller he'd be a Gary Payton type with his tenacity and effort on D.
:oldlol: u crack me up man

[lilgodfather1]

I don't watch many Wolves, or Grizz games so I can't comment on them. However I watched a lot of Celtics games, and Rondo is a great defender for a PG, and Chalmers is likely a top 10 defender at the PG. I do know one thing though Kyrie is a revolving door :facepalm .

[scm5]

I don't watch many Wolves, or Grizz games so I can't comment on them. However I watched a lot of Celtics games, and Rondo is a great defender for a PG, and Chalmers is likely a top 10 defender at the PG. I do know one thing though Kyrie is a revolving door :facepalm .

Kyrie is a rookie. Give him some time, he will be a good defender.

Also, I agree that Rondo is probably the best defender at PG. His wingspan, mobility, tenacity, and IQ all contribute a lot to his D.

[Graviton]

Rose is one of the best, especially when it comes to man-to-man defense. He is excellent at stopping penetration and contesting shots. There is a reason why he dominates other elite PGs, he has the explosive offense to tire them out, but he also bodies them up and doesn't let them score a lot. I can't remember the last time a PG went off on the Bulls, while their team D is a factor, Rose is also a big reason for it. He is one of the strongest PGs, built like a pitbull, no one pushes him around and no one overpowers him. There is a reason why Spo put Lebron on him.

If I had to rank the Top 5, it would be...

1) Bradley
2) Rose/Westbrook
3) Westbrook/Rose
4) Shumpert
5) CP3

Lol Rondo is a pretty overrated defender, just like CP3 he gambles a lot and gets blown by at times, and they are also too aggressive at times and pick up unnecessary fouls. Rose exposes both of them every time they play, but Westbrook and Shumpert actually give him a challenge. Can't wait to see Bradley vs Rose when he is back, best defensive PG vs best offensive PG.

[chips93]

Westbrook is in the Conley, Rubio tier IMO. So top 5 to 7 ish.

seriously?

westbrook makes tons of errors

he can lock a guy up, but he loses concentration all the time, mixes up switches, etc.

conley and rubio are far more steady, smarter defenders

[crisoner]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iBSl2vwtEkk/Tvf3I2Ik50I/AAAAAAAAAAo/52WqurHq-LM/s1600/Sonics.jpg

Man I miss GP.

[Graviton]

seriously?

westbrook makes tons of errors

he can lock a guy up, but he loses concentration all the time, mixes up switches, etc.

conley and rubio are far more steady, smarter defenders
That can be said about most of them, but when Westbrook is focused, like he was in the Olympics, he can terrorize any PG. When he doesn't have to score or run the team, he can be truly great.

Conley and Rubio may be smart, but their physical limitations are still there, Rose/Westbrook will still dominate them no matter how "smart" they are.

[chips93]

That can be said about most of them, but when Westbrook is focused, like he was in the Olympics, he can terrorize any PG. When he doesn't have to score or run the team, he can be truly great.

so we are judging guys based on what they could do if they gave 100% rather than what they actually do. maybe russ would be a beast defensively if he focused on it, but he doesnt, and he isnt. we can only judge them on what they actually do out on the court.


Conley and Rubio may be smart, but their physical limitations are still there, Rose/Westbrook will still dominate them no matter how "smart" they are.

just the same as how a smart passing team, like the spurs, can take advantage of westbrook's weakness (lack of focus and IQ)

[Pointguard]

How does John Wall go on D?
He looks like he should be elite on that end of the floor

When he wants to be he will be the best, excluding a fully healthy Shumpert. He has the potential for sure. But he also has the potential to be the best offensively and he's clearly not there either.

For me its, Shumpert, Bradley, Rose, Westbrook and CP3

Billups is by far the most proven. And Deron Williams gets honorable mention.

[NuggetsFan]

People mentioning Billups are on crazy. He's got no lateral quickness anymore. Good at defending the post but in today's league give me somebody who can stay infront of his man rather than guard a PG trying to post up.

He's better of guarding the two than he is the one. Age has just ruined that part of his game, hasn't been that top tier defensive PG in awhile.

Captain Kirk deserves a mention. I don't think he's quite as good as he once was defensively but for a PG he has to still be up there. Rondo is probably the best, even if he kinda regressed this year abit defensively IMO.

[LongLiveTheKing]

I like Westbrook's D he's so fast.

[inclinerator]

jeremy lin

[fpliii]

love the responses so far

more all-time picks would be great :cheers:

[Freedom Kid7]

All-Time? Jason Kidd's awful shooting was saved by the elite defense he gave at his position. Make a steal, harass the shooter, defend the perimeter. Whatever. He did defense, and he did it very damn well.

Gary Payton is an obvious pick here. He could defend with intensity and use awesome trash talk to psychologically piss you off to the point where you played worse.

Clyde Fraizer is a good one too. Kinda sorta gambled a lil' bit, but was still good and was a pretty good defender, even when he didn't gamble.

[Clippersfan86]

I see people are ready to be surprised by Bledsoe's defense. Ask Spurs and Grizzlies fans how good his D is.

[therammingman]

Read the book: "How to dismantle a Lakers Squad"

Co-Written by JJ Barea & Westbrook

Special Thanks to: Derek Fisher, Ramon Sesions, Steve Blake.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Pointguard]

People mentioning Billups are on crazy. He's got no lateral quickness anymore. Good at defending the post but in today's league give me somebody who can stay infront of his man rather than guard a PG trying to post up.

He's better of guarding the two than he is the one. Age has just ruined that part of his game, hasn't been that top tier defensive PG in awhile.


He's by far the most proven, outside of Kidd whom I forgot to mention. But I don't have them in my current group. But its wrong to talk about the current group without giving respect to the guys they look up and still play.

[therammingman]

rod strickland and alvin robertson

[bizil]

In terms of all time, I think these are some of the best ever:

Payton
Clyde Frazier
Dennis Johnson
Mo Cheeks
Kidd
Jerry West (once he slid over to PG later in his career)
Stockton
Norm Van Lier

If I had to pick one, I would pick GP. Could check PG, SG, and even some SF's. Frazier, Kidd, and DJ were similar in that way as well. Current guys u got Paul, Rondo, and Conley. I see some Shumpert mentions on here, but he's more of SG who's versatile enough to check PG, SG and SF.

[jdm_dc_fan]

Some of you guys need to realize Westbrook wouldn't be able to guard himself. neither would Rose. There is no one who can lock up RW or DRose. That shouldn't take credit away from any other PG in the league.

My list would be

Rondo
cp
Westbrook
Rose (thibs)
nash :coleman:

[Whoah10115]

Even tho he didn't have a great defensive season last year, Rondo is still the best one. Like others have said, Bradley (and especially Shump) are SG's.


Westbrook is a very good man defender, but he isn't elite. Teague is very good and maybe better. Chalmers is better overall.



Chris Paul is a great man defender on the perimeter, and has great hands and timing. He's up there. Jrue Holiday is getting there. Ricky Rubio is already up there. Kyle Lowry and Mike Conley are both great defensive players, and top tier.

[fpliii]

shameless bump, but I thought it might be useful to have this on the front page with the WB discussion

defense from PGs doesn't mean all that much IMO, but if your point can guard wings as well, it's definitely a plus (from a teambuilding POV)

the question is, do you actively scout for it, or is it just a bonus/afterthought?

[Graviton]

shameless bump, but I thought it might be useful to have this on the front page with the WB discussion

defense from PGs doesn't mean all that much IMO, but if your point can guard wings as well, it's definitely a plus (from a teambuilding POV)

the question is, do you actively scout for it, or is it just a bonus/afterthought?
It means a lot if you don't have a good SG defender. Why do you think PGs are tearing it up? They are all offensive minded but none concentrates on D.

Rose is actually one of the best man to man defenders at his position and it's part of why other PGs didn't go off vs Bulls, he usually tired them out with his defense+offense.

Westbrook plays more of a harasser and puts pressure on other elite PGs, he is great as well.

If you don't have a great perimeter defender(which many teams lack) , then your team will be diced by Westbrook, Paul, Parker, Rose, Irving and all the other lightning quick PGs.

[RRR3]

Even tho he didn't have a great defensive season last year, Rondo is still the best one. Like others have said, Bradley (and especially Shump) are SG's.


Westbrook is a very good man defender, but he isn't elite. Teague is very good and maybe better. Chalmers is better overall.



Chris Paul is a great man defender on the perimeter, and has great hands and timing. He's up there. Jrue Holiday is getting there. Ricky Rubio is already up there. Kyle Lowry and Mike Conley are both great defensive players, and top tier.
WHOOOOO! Chalmers shoutout! :djparty :party: :bowdown: :bowdown:
http://i.imgur.com/EX98o.gif


Will rep when I can :cheers:

[fpliii]

It means a lot if you don't have a good SG defender. Why do you think PGs are tearing it up? They are all offensive minded but none concentrates on D.

Agreed about the bolded. My question for you then is though, with the lack of dominant SG prospects, if your PG is your best perimeter defender, haven't you reduced your 2 guard to a specialist?

Rose is actually one of the best man to man defenders at his position and it's part of why other PGs didn't go off vs Bulls, he usually tired them out with his defense+offense.

Agreed.

Westbrook plays more of a harasser and puts pressure on other elite PGs, he is great as well.

True. As I said, IMO WB is also capable of guarding 2's and 3's decently as well (not sure how much of this can be attributed to his physical tools, but he seems like a smart/skilled defender as well).

If you don't have a great perimeter defender(which many teams lack) , then your team will be diced by Westbrook, Paul, Parker, Rose, Irving and all the other lightning quick PGs.

Good points! :cheers:

[Graviton]

@fpilii

Well, if you don't have an adequate SG/SF defender then you are a lottery team most likely lol, and most of the bad teams in NBA have that exact problem. If your PG is the best defender, then the SG/SF better be some amazing scorers/rebounders or help defenders.

I think a lot of PGs nowadays can check SGs as long as they are 6'2 and have enough strength. Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Holiday, Teague, Bradley, Bledsoe. The SG position is dying too, most of them are just 6'4-6'5 and basically little Wades like Harden/Gordon.

Line ups are just getting smaller and compact, quick defenders are more valuable now. But it's best to have an anomaly at a certain spot. Like Rose/WB are PGs but no other PG can guare them without sacrificing his own game, mismatch created. Kobe is 6'6 but even Thabo/Allen can't guard him because he just posts them up. Lebron is too big for SGs/SFs and too fast for PFs to guard. Melo at PF is a nightmare to guard. Durant is too long at the perimeter but physical defenders bother him.

[jdm_dc_fan]

Rondo and avery best defensive back court. And courtney Lee of the bench. :applause:

By the way, can we agree Rondo can score with the best of them when he needs to? Or is DRose an average defender?

Playoffs Celtics VS bulls.

Rondo:FG 45%/ 3P 44%/ FT 65%/ RB 9.3/ AST 11.6/ STL 2.7/ BLK 0.4/ PTS 19.4
DRose:FG 49%/ 3P 0% / FT 80%/ RB 6.3/ AST 6.4 / STL 0.6/ BLK 0.7/ PTS 19.7

Turn over to assist ratio
Rondo: AST/11.6 to TO/2.1 Difference 9.5
DRose: AST/6.4 to TO/5.0 Difference 1.4

7 game average.

Hope D Rose's Defense has progressed significantly since '09.

[blablabla]

Kyle Lowry is a good defender, healthy rose too

and prime andre miller was great

[iggy>]

Holiday is a good defender. Yet he has 0 mentions in this thread.

[FatComputerNerd]

Holiday is a good defender. Yet he has 0 mentions in this thread.


Came here to post this.

He is probably the best defensive PG in the league currently.

[Nelson14]

rondo

[roffie]

Read the book: "How to dismantle a Lakers Squad"

Co-Written by JJ Barea & Westbrook

Special Thanks to: Derek Fisher, Ramon Sesions, Steve Blake.

hahaha repped

[chips93]

pretty much eery good pg in the nba uses the pick and roll to get into the paint. so id rather have a mobile big man who can move his feet to stay with pgs, for help defense.

there are lot of good defensive teams with poor defender at the pg position, but few good defensive teams with bad defensive bigs

if theres one spot where you cam afford to have a poor defender its at pg.

[bmulls]

When did Rubio get the reputation of a good man defender? I thought that was one of his main criticisms

[Teanett]

When did Rubio get the reputation of a good man defender? I thought that was one of his main criticisms

the first time he stepped on a court?
the guy was a already a good defender when he was 16.

[Whoah10115]

A couple people complaining about no mentions of Jrue...apparently those people don't actually read the posts lol.




When did Rubio get the reputation of a good man defender? I thought that was one of his main criticisms



That's what people say when they don't watch him. He played great D on Kobe before coming into the NBA (and Kobe brought it up) and if anyone watches him, he's the PG with likely the best defensive upside. No one gets around him, he fits thru picks, he has some of the best hands in the entire league. He's so physical that you think he might be fouling you...He's really tough on-ball.

[Cali Syndicate]

Kirk Hinrich has been an underrated defender throughout his career. Versatile too.

[Whoah10115]

Absolutely agree on Hinrich.


It's like the difference between CF and LF/RF in baseball. CF is the most important. It's the place in the outfield you can least afford to have a subpar defensive player. So much so that you'd rather have a .180 GG CF than your bats in the corners than the opposite.


But Barry Bonds has 8 deserved GG's. In baseball, they give out 3 GG's (mostly to accommodate CF), not one per position.


What I'm trying to say is that YES the big man is a more important piece to a defense than a guard. And yes, the guard position is generally less an issue on defense than a SF. But Smoke is wrong when he thinks it doesn't matter much or when he values average defenders (Shaq) over elite wing defenders (something he's suggested with MJ). It's just bullshit.

[PP34Deuce]

Avery Bradley is above them all.

Last season I saw this guy stop uber athletic PGs in iso and PnR.


This play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsk_Uc6abI

Shows his high IQ in PnR defense with Garnett. Gets a nasty block on Westbrook

This Play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZhWnwDwpnA

Recovery like an elite CB gets a clean block on Westbrook

I know Bledsoe,Holiday, are very good, but Bradley is a true game changer for our team. Intangible energy that makes the lineup want to shut guys down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrNNEUXMLw0

[b0bab0i]

Avery Bradley is above them all.

Last season I saw this guy stop uber athletic PGs in iso and PnR.


This play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsk_Uc6abI

Shows his high IQ in PnR defense with Garnett. Gets a nasty block on Westbrook

This Play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZhWnwDwpnA

Recovery like an elite CB gets a clean block on Westbrook

I know Bledsoe,Holiday, are very good, but Bradley is a true game changer for our team. Intangible energy that makes the lineup want to shut guys down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrNNEUXMLw0

Coming back from an injury, we don't know if he will be the same or might regress.

[PP34Deuce]

Coming back from an injury, we don't know if he will be the same or might regress.

That is a good concern. 2 shoulder injuries are scary but hes only 21-22 and that doesnt affect his elite speed and quickness. Bradley also just has a really smart defensive IQ. If healed right I dont worry about his defense, I expect his offense to be shaky for a month as he works back into form.

[Whoah10115]

That is a good concern. 2 shoulder injuries are scary but hes only 21-22 and that doesnt affect his elite speed and quickness. Bradley also just has a really smart defensive IQ. If healed right I dont worry about his defense, I expect his offense to be shaky for a month as he works back into form.



But is he gonna be a PG?

[Burgz V2]

conley, cp3, rondo, westbrook are elite

I think kyrie should be a better defender than he is, same with John Wall. Kyle Lowry is also a pretty good man defender he's up there too

[Clippersfan86]

Avery Bradley is above them all.

Last season I saw this guy stop uber athletic PGs in iso and PnR.


This play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsk_Uc6abI

Shows his high IQ in PnR defense with Garnett. Gets a nasty block on Westbrook

This Play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZhWnwDwpnA

Recovery like an elite CB gets a clean block on Westbrook

I know Bledsoe,Holiday, are very good, but Bradley is a true game changer for our team. Intangible energy that makes the lineup want to shut guys down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrNNEUXMLw0

Bradley also lucked into a situation where he plays next to a defensive mastermind in KG and a defensive minded coach who believes in him. Not saying he's not an elite defender because he IS. Just saying it's a bit amplified due to perfect people around him.

[inclinerator]

jeremy lin

[Smoke117]

I always thought Billups was one of the better defensive point guards. Not sure how much now after his injury and aging a bit.

Lowry's not bad either.

Chauncey Billups was one of the most overrated defensive pg's ever. He didn't do shit and neither did Hamilton. That was all front court. Ben Wallace was a monster and Rasheed was an very good defender on the Blazers and became a great one on the Pistons. The best guy at defending pg's was Scottie Pippen. He just used his length to smother them and his height and long arms to block their view and passing lanes.

[jdm_dc_fan]

Bradley also lucked into a situation where he plays next to a defensive mastermind in KG and a defensive minded coach who believes in him. Not saying he's not an elite defender because he IS. Just saying it's a bit amplified due to perfect people around him.

Avery bradley
Shumpert



Bledsoe

[b0bab0i]

Avery bradley
Shumpert



Bledsoe
The top 2 on your list are both injured. Lets hope that when they come back, they will still be the same.

[Clippersfan86]

The top 2 on your list are both injured. Lets hope that when they come back, they will still be the same.

Both massive injuries. Bradley still isn't near healed after what 6 months? Shump tore his ACL?