The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

[jlip]

In light of the story surrounding Lebron's and Durant's controversial off season workouts and the multiple claims of this being reflective of this generation's "lack of competitive spirit", I decided to do some research on some older legends to determine if they did similar things. Here is what I've uncovered.

Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were actually close friends. The Celtics and Wilt Chamberlain's Philadelphia Warriors often played each other on Thanksgiving Day. On games in Philadelphia, Russell, along teammates K.C. Jones and Sam Jones, would eat turkey dinner at Chamberlain's house.
Source (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/bio/_/id/4152/bill-russell)


In this video (http://msn.foxsports.com/topics/m/video/25402347/russell-talks-friendships.htm) (@ 2:51 mark) Bill Russell says, "When Elgin was playing for the Lakers...every pre game meal we had, we had together. In Boston he was at my house. And at Minneapolis and in LA, I was at his house."

The video also speaks of how Russell, after having Thanksgiving dinner with Wilt's family, would take a nap in Wilt's bed, and then they would head to the game.

What captured me in this video is the fact that the host, Chris Rose, actually was under the familiar impression that "old school" competitors would never fraternize with one another like that, telling Russell that such things just don't sound like his perception of what "old school" players used to do. He was wrong.

This was not some off season workout we're talking about. This was during the season and just a couple of hours before the game. Try telling Russell he wasn't competitive.

[jlip]

"Johnson calls Thomas "Zeke,"...Thomas calls Johnson Earvin or Buck...Zeke says he and Buck are kindred spirits in many ways, one their shared spontaneity. To illustrate, Thomas recreated a typical off-season conversation. It begins with a call from him, though it could just as easily be the other way around.
"What are you doing?"
"Nothing."
Me. too. Want to go to New York?"
"Yeah."
"Meet you there."
The would meet, go to a play, go dancing, take a hansom cab ride through Central Park...

"He's not Magic and I'm not Isiah; we're just two guys, two friends, two brothers talking...We play ball, call each other names and get a lot off our chests," Johnson said.

Thomas was Johnson's house guest and cheerleader during the Laker-Celtic wars of the past few years. There's an "Isiah Room" in the mansion.The friendship is on hold. "On the court, he's the enemy, and it will be that way until the day the series ends," said Johnson. "We can talk then."

Source- June 14, 1988 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=p8cqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KMwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3466,818633&dq=magic+johnson+isiah+thomas+friends&hl=en)


While having this type of friendship during the offseason these two rivals, who played the same position, were still competitive enough to try and take each other's head off in the Finals. Try telling Magic and Isiah that they were not competitive.

[jlip]

"Michael Jordan is my friend and I keep that separate from basketball," Barkley said Thursday. "One thing doesn't have anything to do with the other. I don't have to put the friendship aside during the finals."

Both players have said they intend to play golf during the series...
Source- June 11, 1993 During the Finals (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=-jZSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=STYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=3601,4078566&dq=michael+jordan+charles+barkley+friends&hl=en)


Magic Johnson, already unpopular in Phoenix, has another critic: Charles Barkley.

Barkley is unhappy at Magic for saying that Barkley and Michael Jordan have been too friendly during the NBA Finals.

Magic is just talking to talk," Barkley said Thursday...

In his role as an NBC analyst, Johnson implied he was surprised that Barkley and Jordan had gone out to dinner during the championship series, which the Bulls can wrap up Friday night by winning Game 5.

Barkley dined with Jordan at Jordan's restaurant after Sunday's Game 3. Johnson also was there.

Meanwhile, Barkley said he and Jordan dined together at the popular nightspot after Wednesday night's game.

Source- June 18, 1993 During the Finals (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=a2FWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4_ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=5699,6033990&dq=michael+jordan+charles+barkley+friends&hl=en)

[jlip]

So maybe Durant and Lebron should show real "old school competitive drive" by going out to dinner and having sleepovers with each other right before the game like Wilt, Russell, MJ, and Barkley.

[Raz]

Keep

Will sell post #5 for 50 cents.

[LakersReign]

"Johnson calls Thomas "Zeke,"...Thomas calls Johnson Earvin or Buck...Zeke says he and Buck are kindred spirits in many ways, one their shared spontaneity. To illustrate, Thomas recreated a typical off-season conversation. It begins with a call from him, though it could just as easily be the other way around.
"What are you doing?"
"Nothing."
Me. too. Want to go to New York?"
"Yeah."
"Meet you there."
The would meet, go to a play, go dancing, take a hansom cab ride through Central Park...

"He's not Magic and I'm not Isiah; we're just two guys, two friends, two brothers talking...We play ball, call each other names and get a lot off our chests," Johnson said.

Thomas was Johnson's house guest and cheerleader during the Laker-Celtic wars of the past few years. There's an "Isiah Room" in the mansion.The friendship is on hold. "On the court, he's the enemy, and it will be that way until the day the series ends," said Johnson. "We can talk then."

Source- June 14, 1988 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=p8cqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KMwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3466,818633&dq=magic+johnson+isiah+thomas+friends&hl=en)


While having this type of friendship during the offseason these two rivals, who played the same position, were still competitive enough to try and take each other's head off in the Finals. Try telling Magic and Isiah that they were not competitive.

Yet another butthurt Lebron fanboy, desperately looking for validation of Lebron's behavior. Big surprise.:rolleyes:

You CONVENIENTLY forgot to mention that Magic and Isiah are no longer friends. Since it's alleged that Isiah was the one who started telling people Magic had HIV. Too bad there's no part in any of that which says they decided to team up together to dominate the league, like Lebron/Wade/Bosh did. Nice try though:applause:

[jlip]

Yet another butthurt Lebron fanboy, looking to validate Lebron's behavior. Big surprise.:rolleyes:

You CONVENIENTLY forgot to mention that Magic and Isiah are no longer friends. Since it's alleged that Isiah was the one who started telling people Magic had the AIDS virus. Too bad there's no part in any of that which says they decided to team up together to dominate the league, like Lebron/Wade/Bosh did. Nice try though:applause:

You will soon be on the ignore list. I don't know why I am dignifying your ignorance, but I am going to do it. Did you not read that WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING they were good friends and despite being rivals they spent a considerable amount of time together in the offseason while still remaining true competitors on the court? The article was written during the 1988 Finals before anyone knew that Magic was HIV positive. And... What the heck does some feud that they had AFTER Magic retired and the Heat Big 3 have to do with Lebron and Durant working out? :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DatAsh]

Yet another butthurt Lebron fanboy, desperately looking for validation of Lebron's behavior. Big surprise.:rolleyes:

You CONVENIENTLY forgot to mention that Magic and Isiah are no longer friends. Since it's alleged that Isiah was the one who started telling people Magic had HIV. Too bad there's no part in any of that which says they decided to team up together to dominate the league, like Lebron/Wade/Bosh did. Nice try though:applause:

Jlip is not a Lebron fanboy.

[blablabla]

Yeah but i don't like Lebron so I have to hate on his behavior no matter what

[get these NETS]

magic and isiah's friendship deteriorated,naturally, once the pistons ascended to the Finals level while Lakers were still there.


there's a famous quoe that Obama used during his initial pres. run..."when I was down 20 points, they(the Clintons) said I was a nice guy"..after Hillary took the gloves off once the race got close


let barkley and jordan face each other in finals 2 years in a row and see how close they would be today


as far as wilt and Bill, their friendship had more to do with lack of support mechanisms for these super visible Black athletes in a much more openly racist society than exists today.

[LakersReign]

You will soon be on the ignore list. I don't know why I am dignifying your ignorance, but I am going to do it. Did you not read that WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING they were good friends and despite being rivals they spent a considerable amount of time together in the offseason while still remaining true competitors on the court? The article was written during the 1988 Finals before anyone knew that Magic was HIV positive. And... What the heck does some feud that they had AFTER Magic retired and the Heat Big 3 have to do with Lebron and Durant working out? :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

(Sarcasm)Damn.....I'm like.....soooooo....scared. The preferred OFFICIAL b***h move of ISHiots, who can't defend their arguments, so they dip out like a b***h:sleeping

Do whatever you want, but FACTS WILL ALWAYS BE FACTS.....PURE AND SIMPLE!!!! And the FACT is, there is no comparison between Magic/Isiah and Lebron/Wade/Bosh, so keep reaching:facepalm

[KG215]

You will soon be on the ignore list. I don't know why I am dignifying your ignorance, but I am going to do it. Did you not read that WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING they were good friends and despite being rivals they spent a considerable amount of time together in the offseason while still remaining true competitors on the court? The article was written during the 1988 Finals before anyone knew that Magic was HIV positive. And... What the heck does some feud that they had AFTER Magic retired and the Heat Big 3 have to do with Lebron and Durant working out? :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Don't worry. Although every single part of his post was completey wrong, he'll comeback with an emoticon ellipses filled post telling you how he "owned" you and how he's right.

I'm 100% convinced he's mentally ill.

[KG215]

(Sarcasm)Damn.....I'm like.....soooooo....scared. The preferred OFFICIAL b***h move of ISHiots, who can't defend their arguments, so they dip out like a b***h:sleeping

Do whatever you want, but FACTS WILL ALWAYS BE FACTS.....PURE AND SIMPLE!!!! And the FACT is, there is no comparison between Magic/Isiah and Lebron/Wade/Bosh, so keep reaching:facepalm

I was half right. Only one emoticon.

The rest is just a bunch of unrelated incoherent psychobabble.

[LakersReign]

Don't worry. Although every single part of his post was completey wrong, he'll comeback with an emoticon ellipses filled post telling you how he "owned" you and how he's right.

I'm 100% convinced he's mentally ill.

...cuz left4dead MADE UP some bullcrap, and SAID it's true, even though he can't prove it. And a pure ret**d(kg215) like you, is seriously dumb enough to beleive him....right?:roll:

[KG215]

Who the hell is left4dead?

[blablabla]

Who the hell is left4dead?
a poster

[DatAsh]

Don't worry. Although every single part of his post was completey wrong, he'll comeback with an emoticon ellipses filled post telling you how he "owned" you and how he's right.

I'm 100% convinced he's mentally ill.


That accurately describes 90%+ of LakersReign posts.

[KG215]

a poster
And did he post in this thread and I missed it? Because LakersReign said "left4dead" is making stuff up and I don't see a post by left4dead.

[KG215]

Keep backpeddling:sleeping

If this is how you are in real life, every day must be an adventure and, every day you don't end up either dead or in jail has to be counted as a good day. That's how stupid you are.

[LakersReign]

Look who's(kg215) MAKING SH*T UP now?:roll:


Good luck with all that:sleeping

[KG215]

MORE backpeddling cuz he(kg215) just realized how ret**ded he just made himself look:roll:

Oh, the irony.

How did I make myself look retarded?

[lilbeastnani]

Nobody said that people on rivaling teams weren't ever friends and didn't hang out or talk off the court. But if you need understanding of what is meant, go watch that Dream Team documentary that NBATV put out. A lot of those guys were friends. Magic, Larry, Michael, Barkley, Ewing, etc etc... they were friends off the court. But as competitors, they wanted to one up each other, not train together. You wouldn't hear a story of Magic and Larry up in the gym together after one of them lost to the other in the finals despite the fact that what they had was a "friendly" rivalry. They wanted to one up each other so they would be focused on themselves and their teammates not on being buddy buddy and working out together. Now, my post here isn't to criticize Lebron or Durant and what they are doing but merely to say that there's clear differences between this era and the last. I prefer the previous era personally but that's just my preference. I don't consider one to be right and one to be wrong.

[LakersReign]

Learn how to read...kg215....learn how to read:rolleyes:

[WillyJakk]

OP, you do realize that the guys who were involved have one thing beyond friendship in common, right?

The prominent guy WON.

Bill beat Wilt and Elgin, Magic split w/ Zeke, Jordan beat Charles, LeBron beat KD.

Guys get cool w/ other guys they compete w/ and get to know them, they see things off court that lends insight to the others personality and personal traits and they think they "know" them, in other words, they likely feel like "I can try this guy this way or that way cause he won't get mad, but I can't try him this way cause he will get mad. I can't try this guy period so I know how to do certain things w/ him."

I see it alot cause it's also like that in regular noncompetitive relationships, you feel your friends have certain qualities about them and you pretty much know what lines you can cross and w/ who and you know what lines not to cross w/ certain friends as well.

Same in sports and once you feel like you "know" a guy a certain way, you may feel you can dominate him and I'm quite sure each one of those guys felt the same exact way.

Zeke is the exception cause he was too strong willed to fall for Magic's "spell" considering he was the true definition of an alpha male growing up.

[Owl]

OP, you do realize that the guys who were involved have one thing beyond friendship in common, right?

The prominent guy WON.

Bill beat Wilt and Elgin, Magic split w/ Zeke, Jordan beat Charles, LeBron beat KD.

Guys get cool w/ other guys they compete w/ and get to know them, they see things off court that lends insight to the others personality and personal traits and they think they "know" them, in other words, they likely feel like "I can try this guy this way or that way cause he won't get mad, but I can't try him this way cause he will get mad. I can't try this guy period so I know how to do certain things w/ him."

I see it alot cause it's also like that in regular noncompetitive relationships, you feel your friends have certain qualities about them and you pretty much know what lines you can cross and w/ who and you know what lines not to cross w/ certain friends as well.

Same in sports and once you feel like you "know" a guy a certain way, you may feel you can dominate him and I'm quite sure each one of those guys felt the same exact way.

Zeke is the exception cause he was too strong willed to fall for Magic's "spell" considering he was the true definition of an alpha male growing up.
Not sure what you're getting at here. I would think both parties would benefit equally from inside knowledge. Unless you're suggesting the dominant personality instigated the friendship for purely self-interested, utilitarian purposes (Russell denied that this was the case with Wilt). I'm not sure that you couldn't just point to the one that won after the fact and say that person was "the prominent guy", which I'm not sure what is meant by in this context.

This isn't meant to mock, I'm just not sure that I get your point, so clarification would be appreciated.

[Crown&Coke]

it has been rumored that Russell would be nice to Wilt and do the pre-game meal stuff just to rattle his head before games.

But I have no issue with players being cool with one another. They do have lives outside of the arena btw. And its likely they like hanging with people similar to themselves, i.e. rich and athletic. Not too many of those types running around.

what will irk me is if they start being all buddy-buddy on the court.

[Rake2204]

Nobody said that people on rivaling teams weren't ever friends and didn't hang out or talk off the court. But if you need understanding of what is meant, go watch that Dream Team documentary that NBATV put out. A lot of those guys were friends. Magic, Larry, Michael, Barkley, Ewing, etc etc... they were friends off the court. But as competitors, they wanted to one up each other, not train together. You wouldn't hear a story of Magic and Larry up in the gym together after one of them lost to the other in the finals despite the fact that what they had was a "friendly" rivalry. They wanted to one up each other so they would be focused on themselves and their teammates not on being buddy buddy and working out together. Now, my post here isn't to criticize Lebron or Durant and what they are doing but merely to say that there's clear differences between this era and the last. I prefer the previous era personally but that's just my preference. I don't consider one to be right and one to be wrong.I partly agree with you, but I partly don't. The portion I do agree with is the notion that those guys in the 90's wanted to one up each other. However, the portion I disagree with regards the older guys not wanting to train together.

Many players, if I recall correctly, thought the Dream Team practices were some of the best basketball moments they've ever experienced. They loved playing on the same team as one another and facing off in practice against one another. Further, many players would often put together open runs in the off season as a means of training, maintaining, and improving. Even on the set of Space Jam, Jordan was rounding up a lot of his opponents for runs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rD424rjpyQ).

And surely, perhaps the argument could be made that there's a difference between playing against rivals in the off-season versus doing exercises with them, but I don't find the situations to be terribly different. Both the LeBron and Durant workout and the runs with the Dream Team and Space Jam (and others) seemed to have the same desired goal for everyone participating: to face the best and to work with the best so as to become the best (or maintain being the best).

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson didn't work out together from what we've heard, but I wouldn't doubt Johnson worked out with Isiah Thomas at some point. I'd bet stars likely trained with many other stars back then, but maybe just not the connections we wanted. So while Magic may have worked with Isiah (just as a hypothetical), we say, "Yeah but he didn't work out with Larry." To me that'd be similar to saying sure, LeBron works out with Kevin Durant, but he's not working out with Dirk Nowitzki so. . .

Even from a personal standpoint, on a much much smaller scale, training with my area's best players in the offseason on an AAU team was great for me. By and large it provided an opportunity for me to push myself day in and day out in hopes of developing my game well enough to take down those same teammates once the season hit. We were tight over the summer but once we met on the court, there was nothing to set aside, we knew it was war time.

[Owl]

Nobody said that people on rivaling teams weren't ever friends and didn't hang out or talk off the court. But if you need understanding of what is meant, go watch that Dream Team documentary that NBATV put out. A lot of those guys were friends. Magic, Larry, Michael, Barkley, Ewing, etc etc... they were friends off the court. But as competitors, they wanted to one up each other, not train together. You wouldn't hear a story of Magic and Larry up in the gym together after one of them lost to the other in the finals despite the fact that what they had was a "friendly" rivalry. They wanted to one up each other so they would be focused on themselves and their teammates not on being buddy buddy and working out together. Now, my post here isn't to criticize Lebron or Durant and what they are doing but merely to say that there's clear differences between this era and the last. I prefer the previous era personally but that's just my preference. I don't consider one to be right and one to be wrong.
A bunch of elite players including Chuck and Ewing (iirc) helped MJ get back into game shape by joining scrimmages on the set of Space Jam. Magic even played once the summer before his comeback.

This a small section on it here.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1007724/3/index.htm
So maybe it hasn't been done one on one before but stars have worked out together, they play in each others charity games, Magic and Bird shared commercials etc


Stars fierce burning and personal hatred is usually a media construct (with occasional exceptions e.g. Jordan vs Isiah) and (most) players are entirely capable of separating rivalries on court with relationships on it. Isiah picked Bird's brain to try and get insights into winning, they wouldn't have talked if they really disliked each other.

[Indian guy]

MJ and Barkley were having dinner together pretty much every night during the '93 Finals. Picture that for a second - here's Barkley, getting his ass kicked by MJ every night, yet still going out to eat with him after the game.

This is why the whole notion of stars from the past not being buddy-buddy or being these uber-competitive guys who didn't socialize off the court is so moronic. Stop being an idiot. Being friends with a peer doesn't make you any less competitive.

[PJR]

Unfortunately players today are victims of the information age. The facebooks, and twitters, discussion forums and such. Information widespread in a matter of minutes. Shit like workouts between two great players would be a non-story 20 years ago. Today? Something so trivial is broken down and analyzed lol...

[lilbeastnani]

Unfortunately players today are victims of the information age. The facebooks, and twitters, discussion forums and such. Information widespread in a matter of minutes. Shit like workouts between two great players would be a non-story 20 years ago. Today? Something so trivial is broken down and analyzed lol...
I can agree to that. The media back in those days used to be microphones and newspapers, and reached a much smaller demographic. Today the media is youtube, blogs, internet, TMZ, gossip websites, etc etc.... Lebron takes a shit and 5 minutes later it's front page news with pics and video clips...

Having said that I feel like rivalries these days are a lot more friendly than they were back in those days. It has been mentioned that Barkley/Jordan had dinner every night during the finals... I fully admit I didn't know that and it would definitely be front page news if it happened now. At the same time (even though I don't know this) I can assume that when they went out to dinner the last thing they talked about was basketball. And then when they were on the court together they weren't smiling and laughing together in a friendly manor, they were talking shit. They were friendly and they were friends but there's no doubt about it that it was a rivalry.

Durant/Lebron to me are a different breed. If you look at the best players of today, they don't really seem to directly go at each other. Who is Lebron's rival? He doesn't have one. The closest person he has to a rival is Kevin Durant and they work out together, they like each other, they play flag football together in the offseason, compete against each other in charity games, etc etc... And they "go at" each other in terms of just playing within themselves and playing their games but you never get a sense of a real rivalry between them. Durant's teammates go at Bron hard, Durant doesn't.

The only guys I see who still have that fierce competitive nature about them are the guys who came in towards the end of that era and towards the beginning of the next era. Guys like Kobe or Paul Pierce for an example.

[nycelt84]

Back in the days when the NBA was a 8 team league there were stories that after doubleheaders especially at Madison Square Garden all the players who just played would all go out together for big league parties. Wilt also used to travel with Knicks players back to New York after games in Philly when he lived in NY.

[Math2]

Friendliness did not extend on court. And you don't see Magic jumping over to the Pistons because he can't win on his own. :facepalm

[Heilige]

MJ and Barkley were having dinner together pretty much every night during the '93 Finals. Picture that for a second - here's Barkley, getting his ass kicked by MJ every night, yet still going out to eat with him after the game.


Jordan was softening him up...

[QUOTE]The day before game 4 of the Bulls Suns finals with the Bulls leading the series 2-1. Michael and Charles Barkley went golfing. They played 48 holes of golf. And Michael bought Charles a $20,000 diamond earring. Johnny asked MJ,

[PJR]

Friendliness did not extend on court.

http://www.eastsidedavecountry.com/wp-content/uploads/Kissies.jpg

[Hands of Iron]

The day before game 4 of the Bulls Suns finals with the Bulls leading the series 2-1. Michael and Charles Barkley went golfing. They played 48 holes of golf. And Michael bought Charles a $20,000 diamond earring. Johnny asked MJ, “what did you do all that for?” Michael responded, “he won’t get in my way the rest of the series, what’s $20,000 to me? Charles thinks we’re great friends. I hate that fat f—.” Jordan dropped 55 in game 4 and Barkley never touched him once.

:oldlol:

[TheBigVeto]

Jordan was softening him up...



http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2011/09/29/more-stories-of-michael-jordan-being-michael-jordan/

http://dsy.posterous.com/50904227

Wonder how Round Mound takes that story.

[Rake2204]

I understand a direct comparison in this regard never ends well, but haven't you guys all had tons of moments where you've played ball against people you knew but hated them for as long as the game was going? Some of the folks on the basketball court I most often tend to get to know off the court are those who really, really battle with me, often resulting in arguments, cheap shots, and a nasty will to win from both sides. We beat the hell out of each other and we feel like we hate each other. Then when the game ends, we high five and both of us understand and truly know that it's all good.

I have to imagine similar feelings have occurred in the NBA for as long as it has existed. Further, the bonds are likely easier to come by because of the unique life scenario every single NBA player finds themselves in. Who can relate to a multi-millionaire who plays a game for a living? Another multi-millionaire who plays a game for a living. At the end of the day, these guys work in the entertainment industry. It's not life or death. If nothing else, they're probably a lot more isolated than so-called normal folk. Their fame, wealth, and line of work does not lead to easy moments of finding friends who respect them for who they are and can relate to how they live. As such, it's not surprising many players tend to stick together, regardless of team (business) alliance.

[b1imtf]

Keep

Will sell post #5 for 50 cents.
I can pay 45 cents tops...

[WillyJakk]

Not sure what you're getting at here. I would think both parties would benefit equally from inside knowledge. Unless you're suggesting the dominant personality instigated the friendship for purely self-interested, utilitarian purposes (Russell denied that this was the case with Wilt). I'm not sure that you couldn't just point to the one that won after the fact and say that person was "the prominent guy", which I'm not sure what is meant by in this context.

This isn't meant to mock, I'm just not sure that I get your point, so clarification would be appreciated.

When I say prominent I mean the more domineering personality.

Wilt was a gentle giant who didn't wanna hurt anyone unless provoked, Bill played more intensely and comes across as a more sincere dude than Wilt while physically he was just more imposing than Elgin who seemed more laid back.

Magic was domineering but wanted to be loved while Zeke didn't give sh*t whether he was liked or not, he wanted to win, Magic wanted to win, therefore Zeke would not bow down to Magic.

Jordan of course had and still has the more domineering personality of he, Charles, and Pat therefore he knew they'd eventually bow down and I'm sure some of those elbows Barkley gave Pip during their rivalry he likely "Waterboy'ed" Mike's head in Pippen's body cause Mike knew he wouldn't elbow him like that.

LeBron has a more domineering personality than KD, that should be evident by KD not even being able to check his own teammate (Westbrook) so I'm sure LeBron feels this deep down, whether KD changes remains to be seen, that is if the Thunder even get back to the Finals.

[SevereUpInHere]

Jordan was softening him up...



http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2011/09/29/more-stories-of-michael-jordan-being-michael-jordan/

http://dsy.posterous.com/50904227

Do you know how long it takes to play 48 holes of golf? I doubt this is true.

[L.Kizzle]

In light of the story surrounding Lebron's and Durant's controversial off season workouts and the multiple claims of this being reflective of this generation's "lack of competitive spirit", I decided to do some research on some older legends to determine if they did similar things. Here is what I've uncovered.

Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were actually close friends. The Celtics and Wilt Chamberlain's Philadelphia Warriors often played each other on Thanksgiving Day. On games in Philadelphia, Russell, along teammates K.C. Jones and Sam Jones, would eat turkey dinner at Chamberlain's house.
Source (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/bio/_/id/4152/bill-russell)


In this video (http://msn.foxsports.com/topics/m/video/25402347/russell-talks-friendships.htm) (@ 2:51 mark) Bill Russell says, "When Elgin was playing for the Lakers...every pre game meal we had, we had together. In Boston he was at my house. And at Minneapolis and in LA, I was at his house."

The video also speaks of how Russell, after having Thanksgiving dinner with Wilt's family, would take a nap in Wilt's bed, and then they would head to the game.

What captured me in this video is the fact that the host, Chris Rose, actually was under the familiar impression that "old school" competitors would never fraternize with one another like that, telling Russell that such things just don't sound like his perception of what "old school" players used to do. He was wrong.

This was not some off season workout we're talking about. This was during the season and just a couple of hours before the game. Try telling Russell he wasn't competitive.
This is quit different from others. You gotta remember back then black couldn't really eat at restaurants. So when in town at an opposite house, they eat sometime even sleep in he guess room. It was more looking out for your brother.

[bdreason]

I have no doubt that bigtime competitors trained together in the past... they just didn't post it on facebook, or twitter it out for the whole world to know.


Without modern day social media, none of us would probably even know LeBron and Durant were training together.

[Poetry]

Jordan was softening him up...



http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2011/09/29/more-stories-of-michael-jordan-being-michael-jordan/

http://dsy.posterous.com/50904227

The stories don't fact check properly.

Trey Kerby even mentions it in the first paragraph. To quote him, "Red flags all around."

Read some of the responses for specific errors.

[jlip]

MJ and Barkley were having dinner together pretty much every night during the '93 Finals. Picture that for a second - here's Barkley, getting his ass kicked by MJ every night, yet still going out to eat with him after the game.

This is why the whole notion of stars from the past not being buddy-buddy or being these uber-competitive guys who didn't socialize off the court is so moronic. Stop being an idiot. Being friends with a peer doesn't make you any less competitive.

Could you imagine the media firestorm if it had been reported that after losing game 1 of the Finals, Lebron had decided to go to a club with Durant? We would be hearing all types of lies about how the greats of the past would never have done that, and how Lebron still doesn't "get it" lacking their competitive drive.

[SourPatchKids]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[pauk]

Good job jlip! Skip Bayless wont like this... :)


PS: Dont mind LakersReign and the other Lebron hatred blinded "butthurtians"...

[Mr Exlax]

The thing is that none of the guys are "rivals". They are opponents, but not rivals. That's why I'm ok with Lebron and Wade playing on the same team. They were never "rivals". Their teams never had a series in the playoffs against each other. How are you a rival with someone you've never even got into a shoving match with?