#32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Patrick Ewing was voted the #31 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

21 PPG | 9.8 RPG | 1.9 APG

11

[L.Kizzle]

Another Knick Clyde Frazier.

[funnystuff]

Stockton.

[BlackVVaves]

Stockton

Passing...PASSING... PASSING.

He's a passing machiiiiine :dancin

[Stern]

Clyde Frazier

[fsvr54]

Next two have to be between Walt and Stockton, in any order.

[TheBigVeto]

How is Ewing and Isiah above Stockton?

Anyway, Stockton.

[dyna]

Elvin Hayes

[INDI]

Stockton

[ganja0710]

john stockton.

[iamgine]

Bob Mcadoo

1x MVP
2x MVP runner up
2 championships

[ScalabrineStan]

Stockton

[kennethgriffin]

lol@ the all time leader in assists and steals being top 30 all time


he woulda been in my top 25 atleast...

[StateOfMind12]

Vote - Walt Frazier, he is getting underrated severely.

[ganja0710]

Vote - Tracy McGrady, he is getting underrated severely.
yeah, what he said. :bowdown:

[Round Mound]

Stockton!!! In His Prime 16-17 PPG on 53-54% FG, 13-14 APG, 3 SPG etc
:bowdown: The All Time Assist and Steal Leader. Best Pure PG Ever !!!

[Snoop_Cat]

Frazier easily... should've been taken over Ewing too.

Stockton was a great player on both ends, a team player, and had terrific longevity. But, he was never the "takeover" player that I would expect in a guy this high on the list.

[TheeBeast]

John Stockton

[miles berg]

Stockton

[MasterDurant24]

Frazier.

[rhythmic]

In his two only relatively healthy seasons Bill Walton posted up:

19/14/4/3 on 53% in 34 minutes
19/13/5/2.5 on 52% in 33 minutes

Finals MVP, MVP (#2 in MVP voting the other year), 2 time All-Star, All-NBA 2nd, All-NBA 1st, x2 All-defensive 1st team.

I seriously think if he didn't have an injury riddled career, he'd be top three player of all-time. Great scorer (very versatile), best passer of any big man in league history (IMO), terrific rebounder and an absolutely monster defensively.

My pick is definitely Bill Walton, his two years are as good as anyone else's in league history.

I know he won't win due to longevity. I think his peak is as good as almost anyone's and that's enough for me to vote him at this spot.

This dude right here, would have obliterated Ewing.

[coin24]

Frazier:cheers:

[tmacman]

Tracy Mcgrady

[G.O.A.T]

Top candidates should be Walt Frazier, Dave Cowens, Bill Walton and Dolph Schayes. Paul Arizin too if you consider Cousy a top 25 guy.

[Eric Cartman]

John Stockton

[pauk]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/1104/sports.figures.with.statues/images/john-stockton.jpg

[DirtySanchez]

It's a crime Stockton is still here...all time leader in steals and assist.
If he was all time in scoring and not white I bet he go higher.

Geeez I feel like a tea party member screaming reverse racism. Lol

[WillC]

The greatest passer in NBA history still hasn't been voted in? This isn't just about longevity, people. He's the purest point guard of all-time. Ewing over Stockton? Sure, if you want someone who settles for the jump shot in clutch time.

My vote is for Stockton.

Also, I find it funny that people have voted for Ewing ahead of Walt Frazier :facepalm

[OmniStrife]

Tracy Mcgrady
:roll:




John Stockton

[iamgine]

If Stockton is voted here, why not Nash? His longevity is pretty good too. Nash was at least 2x MVP. The closest Stockton got to MVP was #8.

[fpliii]

The greatest passer in NBA history still hasn't been voted in? This isn't just about longevity, people. He's the purest point guard of all-time. Ewing over Stockton? Sure, if you want someone who settles for the jump shot in clutch time.

My vote is for Stockton.

Also, I find it funny that people have voted for Ewing ahead of Walt Frazier :facepalm

What? Most prolific perhaps due to the all-time lead, but longevity doesn't make you greater, per se.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Got to go with John Stockton here.
Led the league in assists 9 times, and also has the most career assists in NBA History.
Led the league in steals twice, also has the most career steals in NBA History.
So obviously he was a great passer and defender, but he also scored the ball very efficiently, 61% TS% career average, with a season as high as 65.6% TS.
Well deserved :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

The greatest passer in NBA history still hasn't been voted in? This isn't just about longevity, people. He's the purest point guard of all-time. Ewing over Stockton? Sure, if you want someone who settles for the jump shot in clutch time.

You do know that everyone from Sprewell to Kevin Johnson and Mark Price types were ranked over stockton in his prime right?

How is someone like Ewing ranked over Stockton for literally 15 years suddenly worse than him when both have been gone for 10 years?

I really want to know. Not a single person who voted for Stockton has even made a half assed argument for it. He flat out was NOT ranked over Pat and likely wins a poll of anyone credible from like 1983 to 1998. So why should he be behind him in retrospect?

[Kblaze8855]

Even though I know people are doing the "Vote for the same guy till he wins" thing for Stockton and wont care about Dave Cowens working his ass off, being considered greater in his era, and having a flat out more accomplished career....id still like to say just for his sake....

Dave Cowens won the MVP...voted by the players at the time. He was second at least one other time if not twice. He led his team in points, rebounds, asssists, steals, and blocks....the only other people to ever do that are already on the list. Several of them top 20. Some top 10.

He was not all nba first team like Stockton...but really...you have to be better than Kareem to be better than Stockton, Pistol Pete, Frazier, and others getting votes lately?

He was still an all star level player vs people that top 5 guys on this list get credit for playing. And I dont even mean Kareem. Magic works the 76ers with Doc, Dawkins, Jones, and so on....it counts. Cowens does it and nobody cares because it was in the 70s? When some of them were better than when Magic played them......

This guy was one of the best defenders and rebounders in the league. His most famous play(the only play of his anyone remembers)...hes a center stuck one on one with Oscar robertson...rips him straight up and out hustles him to the ball as the arena explodes with the forced shot clock violation...game 6 of the NBA finals. Score tied at 86. Iconic play.

Game 7 he has 28/14/4 outplaying Kareem to win the title. He had 26/19 and 21/17 to closeout his next finals series to get ring #2.

He was a 21/16 playeri n his prime and at 30....months before Larry Bird was drafted...he was still a 19/14/5 player.

Again...I dont think anyone votes him in...I just wish people cared.

[WillC]

What? Most prolific perhaps due to the all-time lead, but longevity doesn't make you greater, per se.

Ignore longevity then, if you choose to.

Who has the highest APG in a single season?

Stockton.

Who led the NBA in assists per game for the most consecutive seasons?

Stockton.

[blablabla]

Clyde Frazier

[Raz]

John Stockton

[Kblaze8855]

Ignore longevity then, if you choose to.

Who has the highest APG in a single season?

Stockton.

Who led the NBA in assists per game for the most consecutive seasons?

Stockton.

And in his two highest assists seasons he was 9th and 12 in MVP voting behind such people as Nique, Kevin Johnson, Drexler, terry Porter, Tom Chambers and so on. He was hanging out down with Buck Williams and Kenny smith types there.

And all of these people were ahead of Stockton on all NBA teams while he was leading the league in assists:


Kevin Johnson
Mark Price
Mitch Richmond
Penny
Tim Hardaway
Payton


All of the following people were ahead of Stockton MVP voting wise in his prime which I will say ended in the late 90s:


Fat Lever
Tom Chambers
Brad Daugherty
Dennis Rodman
Shawn Kemp
Joe Dumars
Sprewell
Mookie Blaylock
Kevin Willis
Grant Hill
Glenn Rice
Anthony Mason
Zo
Mutombo
Vin Baker
Antione Walker


Not counting the many elite players of that time of course.


The NBA coaches...not fans...the coaches...they chose Fat Lever over Stockton during a 15/14 57% shooting on a good team. Coaches chose Fat lever and Alvin Robertson to be on the all star team over John.

In 1990(end of 90...pre playoffs) after back to back 17/15 seasons in the GM poll on who you want to start a team...Kevin Johnson got 6 times the votes Stockton did(1). Stockton tied Buck Williams and was 4 behind James worthy.

Now...what makes you and so many others more qualified to judge these guys standing 25 years later than the people watching them daily at the time?

What was wrong with them? These....players, coaches, GMs, and fans who didnt seem to find Stockton nearly as elite a player as rankingsl ike this suggest?


No doubt many many people thought he was the best point guard by the mid 90s. Ive read many things making that clear...and I watched him at the time and would agree.

He was the best point for much of the 90s. I just....dont know what happened 20 years later to make people so much more impressed than they were then. John NEVER came up as the best or one of the best players. But now....many say hes above Ewing?

Its just funny how time changes these things. In 50 years John might be top 10 the way its going.

[guy]

I honestly think Patrick Ewing should be right there with David Robinson and not 7 spots behind. I don't really see that big of a difference between the 2. One was just lucky he didn't have to go up against Jordan and eventually get Tim Duncan on his team. Both should be below Isiah as well.

[MiamiThrice]

And in his two highest assists seasons he was 9th and 12 in MVP voting behind such people as Nique, Kevin Johnson, Drexler, terry Porter, Tom Chambers and so on. He was hanging out down with Buck Williams and Kenny smith types there.

And all of these people were ahead of Stockton on all NBA teams while he was leading the league in assists:


Kevin Johnson
Mark Price
Mitch Richmond
Penny
Tim Hardaway
Payton


All of the following people were ahead of Stockton MVP voting wise in his prime which I will say ended in the late 90s:


Fat Lever
Tom Chambers
Brad Daugherty
Dennis Rodman
Shawn Kemp
Joe Dumars
Sprewell
Mookie Blaylock
Kevin Willis
Grant Hill
Glenn Rice
Anthony Mason
Zo
Mutombo
Vin Baker
Antione Walker


Not counting the many elite players of that time of course.


The NBA coaches...not fans...the coaches...they chose Fat Lever over Stockton during a 15/14 57% shooting on a good team. Coaches chose Fat lever and Alvin Robertson to be on the all star team over John.

In 1990(end of 90...pre playoffs) after back to back 17/15 seasons in the GM poll on who you want to start a team...Kevin Johnson got 6 times the votes Stockton did(1). Stockton tied Buck Williams and was 4 behind James worthy.

Now...what makes you and so many others more qualified to judge these guys standing 25 years later than the people watching them daily at the time?

What was wrong with them? These....players, coaches, GMs, and fans who didnt seem to find Stockton nearly as elite a player as rankingsl ike this suggest?


No doubt many many people thought he was the best point guard by the mid 90s. Ive read many things making that clear...and I watched him at the time and would agree.

He was the best point for much of the 90s. I just....dont know what happened 20 years later to make people so much more impressed than they were then. John NEVER came up as the best or one of the best players. But now....many say hes above Ewing?

Its just funny how time changes these things. In 50 years John might be top 10 the way its going.

Shut the **** up

All the point guards from that era said John Stockton was the guy they hated going up against the most. He probably wasn't a legit franchise player, but he is literally the prototypical point guard. If your teaching a kid how to play the point, you show them John Stockton. Literally had no weaknesses at the position.

I vote Stockton

[Legends66NBA7]

The greatest passer in NBA history still hasn't been voted in? This isn't just about longevity, people. He's the purest point guard of all-time. Ewing over Stockton? Sure, if you want someone who settles for the jump shot in clutch time.

Ewing was clearly better than Stockton for the duration of their primes. There's a reason a lot of people would take Ewing over Stockton, and it's not because of someone who's settling for a jump shot.

Also speaking of clutch time... Elimination game numbers:

Ewing: 23.4ppg 13rpg 2.4apg 0.9spg 2.1bpg 2.6tpg 48.3%fg 25%3pt (1-4) 74.1%ft (28 games)

Stockton: 13.3ppg 2.9rpg 10.5apg 1.8spg 0.4bpg 2.7tpg 44.9%fg 28.8%3pt 88.3%ft (32 games)


Also factor in that Ewing's defense was better than Stockton's, I don't think you will find anybody saying Ewing's really that much of someone who's going to shy away from pressure moments in comparison to Stockton.

Hell, even Karl Malone played better than Stockton in elimination games and he often gets much more blame (not that he shouldn't, since he was the best player on those Jazz teams) for their playoff failures.

[Legends66NBA7]

I honestly think Patrick Ewing should be right there with David Robinson and not 7 spots behind. I don't really see that big of a difference between the 2. One was just lucky he didn't have to go up against Jordan and eventually get Tim Duncan on his team. Both should be below Isiah as well.

Ewing was 0-5 vs Jordan lead teams, but he also had chances when Jordan wasn't in the way. He blew his chances too and other times his teammates didn't step up.

I do agree that their closer all-time.

[crisoner]

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3646/mattdamonposterhi3.jpg

Matt Damon

[guy]

Ewing was 0-5 vs Jordan lead teams, but he also had chances when Jordan wasn't in the way. He blew his chances too and other times his teammates didn't step up.

I do agree that their closer all-time.

My point is Robinson never had to face Jordan that many times nor did he ever win a title without someone better then him like Tim Duncan.

And yes, his best chance came when Jordan retired and in that first year he got beat by someone better then both of them in Hakeem.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him. He sure as hell lost sometimes when he should've won. But so did Robinson. If you switch their career situations, I don't think much is different.

[redhonda76]

I honestly think Patrick Ewing should be right there with David Robinson and not 7 spots behind. I don't really see that big of a difference between the 2. One was just lucky he didn't have to go up against Jordan and eventually get Tim Duncan on his team. Both should be below Isiah as well.

I agreed. Also there is no way Reed to be above Ewing either. It goes to show you who and how many are just clueless.

[WillC]

Shut the **** up

All the point guards from that era said John Stockton was the guy they hated going up against the most. He probably wasn't a legit franchise player, but he is literally the prototypical point guard. If your teaching a kid how to play the point, you show them John Stockton. Literally had no weaknesses at the position.

I vote Stockton

^Well said.

I'd take Stockton's career over Ewing's, thank you very much.

There are 10 centers who were more dominant than Ewing:

- Wilt, Russell, Kareem, O'Neal, Olajuwon, Moses, Mikan, Robinson, Reed and Cowens. You could also make a case for Walton.

At point guard, the list of players I'd take ahead of Stockton is very short:

- Magic, Oscar, Cousy and Isiah.

That's it.

Give me the 5th best PG ever over the 11th best C.

Thanks.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm not trying to make excuses for him. He sure as hell lost sometimes when he should've won. But so did Robinson. If you switch their career situations, I don't think much is different.

Yeah, I agree here.

If Duncan does come to the Spurs in 97 and Ewing wins some chips, he's probably ranked over Robinson.

[Kblaze8855]

Shut the **** up

All the point guards from that era said John Stockton was the guy they hated going up against the most.

And that means hes better than MVPs who led teams to titles or players ranked over him for almost 20 years?



He probably wasn't a legit franchise player

Depends on the franchise. Hes a franchise player in place of Nash on the suns.

But on many teams...no. He isnt. Which is odd for someone ranked top 50. I dont guess its unique. But it is odd.



but he is literally the prototypical point guard. If your teaching a kid how to play the point, you show them John Stockton. Literally had no weaknesses at the position.

I vote Stockton


The prototypical shooting guard is probably a Ray Allen, Reggie, or Sam Jones type. Doesnt mean they are better than someone everyone thinks is better than them for 2 decades.




I'd take Stockton's career over Ewing's, thank you very much.

There are 10 centers who were more dominant than Ewing:

- Wilt, Russell, Kareem, O'Neal, Olajuwon, Moses, Mikan, Robinson, Reed and Cowens. You could also make a case for Walton.

At point guard, the list of players I'd take ahead of Stockton is very short:

- Magic, Oscar, Cousy and Isiah.

That's it.

Give me the 5th best PG ever over the 11th best C.

Thanks.


The 11th best center was considered better than the 5th best point for over 15 years. During that time GMs, coaches, fans, and players made that quite clear. That you would rather have him means little. Id rather have Kevin Mchale than Karl Malone. Doesnt mean he was considered better.

And its not like I even dislike Stockton. You google my name here and Stockton....you will find nothing but praise. In fact...this is me from 2011:



I suspect a lot of people would say that. Stockton went hard. I dont respect anyone any more than I respect John Stockton. Played hard every second, played smart, was clutch, could make any pass anyone ever needed thrown, and he was relentless. Scrappy. The kinda guy I can respect out there. Win or lose. I never had a bad word to say about Stockton.



Something else where I ranked him over Kidd:



Gotta say Stockton. some might mention some of the big playoff games Kidd has had and say Stockton was never capable of such things but....I just dont buy it for the most part. He had a role to play and he played it. But he was a more than capable scorer. If you look into some of his exploits closing games in the playoffs its clear he put the team far ahead of his own scoring. He didnt care about anything but who won the game.

Hes had a few more off shooting games in the playoffs than I think people are aware of...but he was willing to put up shots if nobody had it going and the game was slipping away. I remember quite a few times the Jazz got knocked out and John was going harder than anyone down the stretch trying to fight it off.

He played hard every night for damn near 20 years. He took over late in finals games and never got love for it. He held a solid offense together for 15+ years and played defense on anyone you put in front of him. He was also a dick....who didnt care if you hated him if he got to win. He even set good screens and would go in with the bigmen and snatch a rebound if he had to though his numbers dont show it.

Nothing but respect for stockton. And the longevity lovers have to respect him. he was putting up like 13/11 when he was 38 and leading a 50+ win team.

A team the Mavs knocked out in the first round I believe but..still...


Ive loved John Stocktons game.

But really. I watched John Stocktons entire career.

People didnt rank him as high as they do in retrospect. they just didnt. I find that....odd.

Thats all. I find it odd.

And when people start putting him over MVPs who led multiple title teams and mentioning assist titles from years he was like...all nba third team or years coaches picked Fat Lever over him? Just...feels like a reach.

If in his prime doing absurd numbers NBA coaches put Alvin Robertson over him and GMs would rather have Kevin Johnson....how does he bypass MVPs and champs....by getting worse from then on?

Just bad reasoning. Want to vote for him because you like him and respect him? Fine. So do I. But...its just a shitty case.

John Stockton over some of these guys is just....hard to defend.

[WillC]

Yeah, I agree here.

If Duncan does come to the Spurs in 97 and Ewing wins some chips, he's probably ranked over Robinson.

Nonsense.

Better defender? Robinson.
Better rebounder? Robinson.
Better scorer? Robinson.

[Legends66NBA7]

Nonsense.

Better defender? Robinson.
Better rebounder? Robinson.
Better scorer? Robinson.

I didn't say I would agree with it. People would fall for the rings, though.

Playoff performing is Ewing, agreed ?

[Amare4lyfe]

Nonsense.

Better defender? Robinson.
Better rebounder? Robinson.
Better scorer? Robinson.

Playoff performance? Ewing
Clutch? Ewing
Leadership? Ewing

Playoff performance > Regular season performance

[Deuce Bigalow]

#32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

17- John Stockton
7- Walt Frazier
1- Elvin Hayes
1- Bob McAdoo
1- Bill Walton

[WillC]

The argument for Ewing is a convincing one.

However, I really dislike the argument that Ewing was a better MVP candidate each year compared to Stockton. You could make a similar case for McGrady or Carmelo Anthony over Pierce based on that logic, but come on, you'd be an idiot to vote for those players ahead of Pierce in an all-time rankings list.

Same applies here; you need to consider a player's peak, longevity, team success, individual awards, style of play, etc.

Stockton ticks every box and was the perfect point guard with no weakness.

[TheBigVeto]

The argument for Ewing is a convincing one.

However, I really dislike the argument that Ewing was a better MVP candidate each year compared to Stockton. You could make a similar case for McGrady or Carmelo Anthony over Pierce based on that logic, but come on, you'd be an idiot to vote for those players ahead of Pierce in an all-time rankings list.

Same applies here; you need to consider a player's peak, longevity, team success, individual awards, style of play, etc.

Stockton ticks every box and was the perfect point guard with no weakness.

He's got 1 weakness, that's why he's disrespected:
1. His skin color