Why 60's and 70's players "can't dribble/handle"

[CavaliersFTW]

...and also why modern players from the modern era can't just go back in time and automatically "dominate" like most young fans assume. Kobe or Lebron can't go play in the 60's and move around the floor with the freedoms they have today w/o having a sh*t load of dribbling and ball handling turnovers. They might even need a dribbling coach for whatever amount of time to help them crack the habit and dependency on palming. This call if ever called today would baffle both players and fans because it stopped being enforced gradually from the 1960's til present despite it (AFAIK) still being in the rule book. A typical AI or Kobe ISO play is heavily dependent on a lot of palming. Heck, most of the time Kevin Durant can't even bring the ball up the court without palming. This rule isn't BS that oldschool fans make up to prop up or make excuses for old players, it really did exist:

http://youtu.be/PDRQ0FYhC0U

[TheBigVeto]

...and also why modern players from the modern era can't just go back in time and automatically "dominate" like most young fans assume. Kobe or Lebron can't go play in the 60's and move around the floor with the freedoms they have today w/o having a sh*t load of dribbling and ball handling turnovers. They might even need a dribbling coach for whatever amount of time to help them crack the habit and dependency on palming. This call if ever called today would baffle both players and fans because it stopped being enforced gradually from the 1960's til present despite it (AFAIK) still being in the rule book. A typical AI or Kobe ISO play is heavily dependent on a lot of palming. Kevin Durant can't even bring the ball up the court without palming. This rule isn't BS that oldschool fans make up to prop up or make excuses for old players, it really did exist:

http://youtu.be/PDRQ0FYhC0U

If modern players go back in time they won't get the ball across the midcourt because they'll be whistled for palming every time.

[tmacattack33]

Maybe. But use a better video.

In that video, the ball is on the other side of the guy. I can't even see what happened.

[kennethgriffin]

this is such bullsh*t


kobe gets called for palming every game it seems. the refs hate the guy and he still does his thing


and that looked like a self pass, ofcourse it was called. west should be ashamed for even trying something that dumb


and ontop of it we have no clear angle of his hand and its position on the ball


sure they get away with more these days. but kobe in the 60's would average 15rpg and drop 40 every night


6-5 elgin baylor with similar athleticism averaged nearly 20rpg in his prime

[CavaliersFTW]

Maybe. But use a better video.

In that video, the ball is on the other side of the guy. I can't even see what happened.
Yah, that camera angle isn't the greatest sorry, next time I'm watching a vintage game and I see the call again I will.

[CavaliersFTW]

this is such bullsh*t


kobe gets called for palming every game it seems. the refs hate the guy and he still does his thing


and that looked like a self pass, ofcourse it was called. west should be ashamed for even trying something that dumb


and ontop of it we have no clear angle of his hand and its position on the ball


sure they get away with more these days. but kobe in the 60's would average 15rpg and drop 40 every night


6-5 elgin baylor with similar athleticism averaged nearly 20rpg in his prime
:facepalm your only mad because I used Kobe as an example. If I had only thrown exclusively Lebron under the bus I bet you would have jumped on him about it but the fact is every player commits old school palming violations in today's game including Kobe. It's just part of how the game evolved.

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm your only mad because I used Kobe as an example. If I had only thrown exclusively Lebron under the bus I bet you would have jumped on him about it but the fact is every player commits old school palming violations in today's game including Kobe. It's just part of how the game evolved.


saying kobe cant go back and drop way bigger lines and "it would be harder for him" is basically saying wilt could average 50 and dropping 100 in todays game or maybe do better

people give less credit to numbers/achivements back in the day for a reason.

players evolve. the game evolves

to think someone like kobe couldnt take what he knows into the past and dominate is a slap in the face to evolution

that being said... i rank players based on their impact in "their" era. it makes no sense to compare 1 guys stats to anothers in a different era. its how good you were compared to the guys you faced that matters

[CavaliersFTW]

saying kobe cant go back and drop way bigger lines and "it would be harder for him" is basically saying wilt could average 50 and dropping 100 in todays game or maybe do better

people give less credit to numbers/achivements back in the day for a reason.

players evolve. the game evolves

to think someone like kobe couldnt take what he knows into the past and dominate is a slap in the face to evolution
I never said Kobe couldn't be elite back then - I only said he couldn't just be plucked from todays game and put into a game back then and automatically dominate. He'd either make the adjustment and start dribbling like Jerry West or Elgin Baylor or get whistled right out of a game. I actually think he'd be one of the better players to transition because he studies oldschool players and he'd probably pick up on the rule after the very first few whistles and I can see him above most players being focused and disciplined enough to resist the urge to palm relatively quickly. But it'd likely take him at least several weeks to get fully comfortable with it. Other players who don't study oldschool ball like Wisebe would have a more difficult time adjusting. Lanky players that are tall enough to be centers like Kevin Durant or Kevin Garnett would probably have an especially hard time controlling the ball without the aid of using the sides of their hands anymore for stability.

If you can't tolerate the fact the Kobe would need to make adjustments to his game before he'd be able to start putting up numbers back then than I dunno what to tell you. All I'm sayin is he wouldn't be doing modern looking moves, and he'd be forced to play by the 60's rules. That means no "sick crossovers". I'm not saying old school is better, I'm just pointing out what makes a key difference in their ball handling that most modern fans are 100% oblivious too. The "evolution" of the game isn't a one way street. Some things have been added to the game but some things have also been taken away, including rules that used to make the game look less pretty. Old school players didn't have the same freedom to show off "handles" like modern players do.

[fpliii]

saying kobe cant go back and drop way bigger lines and "it would be harder for him" is basically saying wilt could average 50 and dropping 100 in todays game or maybe do better

people give less credit to numbers/achivements back in the day for a reason.

players evolve. the game evolves

to think someone like kobe couldnt take what he knows into the past and dominate is a slap in the face to evolution

that being said... i rank players based on their impact in "their" era. it makes no sense to compare 1 guys stats to anothers in a different era. its how good you were compared to the guys you faced that matters

griff - I thought you said we should rank players based on public perception (not just NBA fans)?

[Poetry]

My boy Stock would need to adjust his game too, he was notorious for palming.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2666/3903249711_69f9e66ef5.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

griff - I thought you said we should rank players based on public perception (not just NBA fans)?

no i said public perception aka majority opinion world wide is what makes jordan the GOAT and it has nothing to do with any message board basketball nerds opinion

i'm not saying i rank my guys based on that criteria. i'm just saying its what the world goes by. and they outnumber us 4 billion to a few hundred on ISH

i dont agree with people ranking the top 5 players ever as

#1 jordan
#2 Kobe
#3 Magic
#4 Bird
#5 Wilt

but you know what. i don't mind people saying it either. looks better than my list where i have kobe ranked 6th

[kennethgriffin]

I never said Kobe couldn't be elite back then - I only said he couldn't just be plucked from todays game and put into a game back then and automatically dominate. He'd either make the adjustment and start dribbling like Jerry West or Elgin Baylor or get whistled right out of a game. I actually think he'd be one of the better players to transition because he studies oldschool players and he'd probably pick up on the rule after the very first few whistles and I can see him above most players being focused and disciplined enough to resist the urge to palm relatively quickly. But it'd likely take him at least several weeks to get fully comfortable with it. Other players who don't study oldschool ball like Wisebe would have a more difficult time adjusting. Lanky players that are tall enough to be centers like Kevin Durant or Kevin Garnett would probably have an especially hard time controlling the ball without the aid of using the sides of their hands anymore for stability.

If you can't tolerate the fact the Kobe would need to make adjustments to his game before he'd be able to start putting up numbers back then than I dunno what to tell you. All I'm sayin is he wouldn't be doing modern looking moves, and he'd be forced to play by the 60's rules. That means no "sick crossovers". I'm not saying old school is better, I'm just pointing out what makes a key difference in their ball handling that most modern fans are 100% oblivious too. The "evolution" of the game isn't a one way street. Some things have been added to the game but some things have also been taken away, including rules that used to make the game look less pretty. Old school players didn't have the same freedom to show off "handles" like modern players do.


even if you were even 1% correct. which you're not

kobe wouldnt even go back in time and be the guy dribbling around like jerry west

kobe would be a SF/PF in the 50's/60's

and his entire game would be backing people down on the post or 1 dribble moves from a face up position

kobes footwork is one of the best in the league and it hasnt changed one bit in terms of 60's to today. so YES. you could pick kobe directly out of todays nba and put him in that era and he would OBLITERATE the competition


if you wanted to pick a better guy as an example you should have used an allen iverson type of player

[fpliii]

no i said public perception aka majority opinion world wide is what makes jordan the GOAT and it has nothing to do with any message board basketball nerds opinion

i'm not saying i rank my guys based on that criteria. i'm just saying its what the world goes by. and they outnumber us 4 billion to a few hundred on ISH

i dont agree with people ranking the top 5 players ever as

#1 jordan
#2 Kobe
#3 Magic
#4 Bird
#5 Wilt

but you know what. i don't mind people saying it either. looks better than my list where i have kobe ranked 6th

what if my top 5 is:

Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe

?

do you think that's realistic, or are my criteria flawed?

[CavaliersFTW]

even if you were even 1% correct. which you're not

kobe wouldnt even go back in time and be the guy dribbling around like jerry west

kobe would be a SF/PF in the 50's/60's

and his entire game would be backing people down on the post or 1 dribble moves from a face up position

kobes footwork is one of the best in the league and it hasnt changed one bit in terms of 60's to today. so YES. you could pick kobe directly out of todays nba and put him in that era and he would OBLITERATE the competition


if you wanted to pick a better guy as an example you should have used an allen iverson type of player
:facepalm Kobe a power forward in the 60's? :oldlol:

http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg

Kobe would get buttraped trying to back down Nate Thurmond, Bob Pettit or Luke Jackson... like it would be a joke, are u f*cking serious dude? :oldlol:

[fpliii]

:facepalm Kobe a power forward in the 60's? :oldlol:

http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg?w=309

Kobe would get buttraped trying to back down Nate Thurmond, Bob Pettit or Luke Jackson... like it would be a joke, are u f*cking serious dude? :oldlol:

we need the obligatory Nate pic with veins popping out on top off veins

mean looking man right there

[kennethgriffin]

what if my top 5 is:

Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe

?

do you think that's realistic, or are my criteria flawed?


lol i'm the biggest jordan hater of all time and even i can't even think of any possible criteria that would keep him out of the top 5 all time


the only possible way to keep jordan out is if you made it strictly peak stats

then it could be

#1 wilt
#2 oscar
#3 baylor
#4 hakeem
#5 shaq

[CavaliersFTW]

we need the obligatory Nate pic with veins popping out on top off veins

mean looking man right there
http://i.imgur.com/ygNdv.jpg

Kobe the mighty 6-4.75" 205lb power forward backing guys like 6-11 245lb Nate Thurmond down in the post :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm Kobe a power forward in the 60's? :oldlol:

http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg?w=309

Kobe would get buttraped trying to back down Nate Thurmond, Bob Pettit or Luke Jackson... like it would be a joke, are u f*cking serious dude? :oldlol:


well... SF in the 60's and PF in the 50's


regardless that doesn't change the fact that kobe would be a post up player.

[fpliii]

lol i'm the biggest jordan hater of all time and even i can't even think of any possible criteria that would keep him out of the top 5 all time


the only possible way to keep jordan out is if you made it strictly peak stats

then it could be

#1 wilt
#2 oscar
#3 baylor
#4 hakeem
#5 shaq

well think about it this way

Russell is the best defensive player ever
Magic is the best offensive player ever
Wilt has the best stats ever
Kareem has the best longevity ever

what was Jordan the best at? Kobe's watched MJ play, and has improved on everything Jordan did in his day

more clutch, more shooting range, better defender, and he got almost the same stats against harder defenses


http://i.imgur.com/ygNdv.jpg

Kobe the mighty power forward backing guys like Nate Thurmond down in the post :roll:

:lebronamazed:

[kennethgriffin]

well think about it this way

Russell is the best defensive player ever
Magic is the best offensive player ever
Wilt has the best stats ever
Kareem has the best longevity ever

what was Jordan the best at? Kobe's watched MJ play, and has improved on everything Jordan did in his day

more clutch, more shooting range, better defender, and he got almost the same stats against harder defenses



:lebronamazed:


well thats not really a top 5. thats a top 1,1,1,1,1

[Round Mound]

Fundamentals Have Been Decreasing Since the Mid 90s

[CavaliersFTW]

well... SF in the 60's and PF in the 50's


regardless that doesn't change the fact that kobe would be a post up player.
Yokedbe could be a SF in the 60's, but not any sub 205lb version of Kobe (like present Kobe, or early years Kobe) unless he was just pulling swingman duties like Havlicek did at a similar bodymass - remember, Kobe started out his career at only 178 - he's naturally skinny, he lifts weights to get big he doesn't have natural bulk like true SF's of that era had like 230lb Baylor, 225lb Chet Walker, or 235lb Gus Johnson. Those guys are heavier set than Kobe, I don't think he'd back them down very easily w/o his modern gym membership to Bally's total fitness.

[fpliii]

well thats not really a top 5. thats a top 1,1,1,1,1

so what's the problem? isn't 5 #1's better than one 1, one 2, one 3, one 4, one 5?

I mean, you don't honestly think that if Kobe played in the 80s-90s he'd be worse than Jordan today (or if Jordan played in the 90s-00s-10s, he'd be better than Kobe has been), do you?

[kennethgriffin]

Yokedbe could be a SF in the 60's, but not any sub 205lb version of Kobe (like present Kobe, or early years Kobe) unless he was just pulling swingman duties like Havlicek did at a similar bodymass - remember, Kobe started out his career at only 178 - he's naturally skinny, he lifts weights to get big he doesn't have natural bulk like true SF's of that era had like 230lb Baylor, 225lb Chet Walker, or 235lb Gus Johnson. Those guys are heavier set than Kobe, I don't think he'd back them down very easily w/o his modern gym membership to Bally's total fitness.

kobe plays sg and sf today

he could do it with ease in the 60's... bulk or skinny..

dude backs down lebron at times in the block. hes strong as f*ck

[CavaliersFTW]

kobe plays sg and sf today

he could do it with ease in the 60's... bulk or skinny..

dude backs down lebron at times in the block. hes strong as f*ck
so then what your saying is - nothing would change :confusedshrug: :lol

obviously he'd still be valuable at both positions - he still has much value as a SG even in the 60's esp if the coach wanted to play a bigger lineup - the difference in size of players then vs now get's blown out of proportion. Kobe wouldn't be gigantic in the 60's - though obviously at 205 he'd be a good SG/SF combo back then (he's currently about identical height/weight as John Havlicek who was 203-208lbs). In comparison West was 175-185 as a pure SG and Baylor was 212-236lbs as a pure SF so that gives u an idea of some typical weight range of players playing SG / Swingman / SF type positions back then

[kennethgriffin]

Fundamentals Have Been Decreasing Since the Mid 90s

they can't all be like sir charles and be so fundamentally round

















http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/gtwhhjnhjhhhhh.png

[fpliii]

kobe plays sg and sf today

he could do it with ease in the 60's... bulk or skinny..

dude backs down lebron at times in the block. hes strong as f*ck

LeBron?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwS6dxlR6g

[kennethgriffin]

so then what your saying is - nothing would change :confusedshrug: :lol

obviously he'd still be valuable at both positions - he still has much value as a SG even in the 60's esp if the coach wanted to play a bigger lineup

ive never said the physical attributes change over time

i said the skills do

sf's in the 60's are around the same size as a big 2guard in todays game.. sure


but as far as tallent goes... kobe has more in his pinky finger than in the entire body of some of those guys

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwS6dxlR6g

who said kobe would be matched up with a 6-11 F/C?

[fpliii]

ive never said the physical attributes change over time

i said the skills do

sf's in the 60's are around the same size as a big 2guard in todays game.. sure


but as far as tallent goes... kobe has more in his pinky finger than in the entire body of some of those guys

what makes you think he would've been able to back down Nate Thurmond though? are you nuts bro?

[fpliii]

who said kobe would be matched up with a 6-11 F/C?

you


even if you were even 1% correct. which you're not

kobe wouldnt even go back in time and be the guy dribbling around like jerry west

kobe would be a SF/PF in the 50's/60's

and his entire game would be backing people down on the post or 1 dribble moves from a face up position

kobes footwork is one of the best in the league and it hasnt changed one bit in terms of 60's to today. so YES. you could pick kobe directly out of todays nba and put him in that era and he would OBLITERATE the competition


if you wanted to pick a better guy as an example you should have used an allen iverson type of player

[kennethgriffin]

i never said he could back down nate thurmond

i said he would back down SF's... not F/C's


and when i said sf/pf in the 60's/50's

i was trying to say SF in the 60's... PF in the 50's

[fpliii]

i never said he could back down nate thurmond

i said he would back down SF's... not F/C's


and when i said sf/pf in the 60's/50's

i was trying to say SF in the 60's... PF in the 50's

you said sf/pf in 50/60, so that wouldn't make sense

regardless, what would happen if they went head to head?

Kobe would get laid out and completely destroyed

[kennethgriffin]

you said sf/pf in 50/60, so that wouldn't make sense

regardless, what would happen if they went head to head?

Kobe would get laid out and completely destroyed


lol sure... nate would crush kobe in a post up

and kobe would run circles around him


who cares about miscommunication battles right now? all that matters is i said kobe wouldnt back down nate now... who cares if someone thought they saw me say something i didnt mean lol


the point of the thread is to say kobe couldnt pull And 1 moves in the 60's

my point is. he wouldnt be handling the ball... he would be a post up player against guys like baylor ( who at 6-5 was grabbing nearly 20rpg at the time )... so with kobes rebounding skills i would expect the same lol

[fpliii]

lol sure... nate would crush kobe in a post up

and kobe would run circles around him


who cares about miscommunication battles right now? all that matters is i said kobe wouldnt back down nate now... who cares if someone thought they saw me say something i didnt mean lol


the point of the thread is to say kobe couldnt pull And 1 moves in the 60's

my point is. he wouldnt be handling the ball... he would be a post up player against guys like baylor ( who at 6-5 was grabbing nearly 20rpg at the time )... so with kobes rebounding skills i would expect the same lol

just messing around bro, chill :cheers:

20 rpg wouldn't happen since Kobe doesn't play a power game, but they'd go up

[CavaliersFTW]

i never said he could back down nate thurmond

i said he would back down SF's... not F/C's


and when i said sf/pf in the 60's/50's

i was trying to say SF in the 60's... PF in the 50's

F/C = they rotated as power forwards

Thurmond was a power forward. Willis Reed was a power forward. Jerry Lucas was a power forward. Elvin Hayes was a power forward. I mean, we're talking guys that are vastly superior physical presences than Kobe in the block. Not saying Kobe couldn't use a post move or two to shake them from time to time but he couldn't play as a fulltime power forward in the 60's, those guys are too big, and post moves were actually commonplace back then Kobe wouldn't be using a lost-art back then - everyone had a hook shot and rudimentary post game back then. Too many guys back then could eat him alive at simply establishing and holding a defensive position in the block to play PF. Kobe's best bet is to play SG and SF, post players back then are better than you think. Save for guys like KG or Duncan a lot of those power forwards / centers back then traded long range for better post games than players learn today.

[CavaliersFTW]

lol sure... nate would crush kobe in a post up

and kobe would run circles around him


who cares about miscommunication battles right now? all that matters is i said kobe wouldnt back down nate now... who cares if someone thought they saw me say something i didnt mean lol


the point of the thread is to say kobe couldnt pull And 1 moves in the 60's

my point is. he wouldnt be handling the ball... he would be a post up player against guys like baylor ( who at 6-5 was grabbing nearly 20rpg at the time )... so with kobes rebounding skills i would expect the same lol
No, that's not the point of the thread :facepalm

The point of the thread is that he couldn't palm the ball and dribble with modern looking "handles" (IE a crossover). That doesn't mean he couldn't draw a foul and perform an and 1, that's a totally different thing. Kobe is built like a SG / SF no coach in their right mind would make Kobe a dedicated pivotman in the era of Wilt / Thurmond / Reed / Russell / Jabbar etc. Your talking about a golden age of pivot play. He'd be a sg / SF and he'd be ranked up their with peak Baylor and peak West putting up gaudy looking stats no doubt, and he'd also have one of the slickest post games too. But I think your underestimating just how good even average players were in the block back then. That's when post play was actually taught to players:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/123/f/1/jimmyking1964_by_dantheman9758-d4ygg1c.gif

Wanna know what would make Kobe truly stand out and shine vs those guys? His range. No 3pt line back then means a time traveled Kobe could be sinking shots further out than most players are used to defending.

[kennethgriffin]

No, that's not the point of the thread :facepalm

The point of the thread is that he couldn't palm the ball and dribble with modern looking "handles" (IE a crossover). That doesn't mean he couldn't draw a foul and perform an and 1, that's a totally different thing. Kobe is built like a SG / SF no coach in their right mind would make Kobe a dedicated pivotman in the era of Wilt / Thurmond / Reed / Russell / Jabbar etc. Your talking about a golden age of pivot play. He'd be a sg / SF and he'd be ranked up their with peak Baylor and peak West putting up gaudy looking stats no doubt, and he'd also have one of the slickest post games too. But I think your underestimating just how good even average players were in the block back then. That's when post play was actually taught to players:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/123/f/1/jimmyking1964_by_dantheman9758-d4ygg1c.gif

Wanna know what would make Kobe truly stand out and shine vs those guys? His range. No 3pt line back then means a time traveled Kobe could be sinking shots further out than most players are used to defending.

that defense :roll: :roll: :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/123/f/1/jimmyking1964_by_dantheman9758-d4ygg1c.gif


too much :roll: :roll: :roll:

[jstern]

...and also why modern players from the modern era can't just go back in time and automatically "dominate" like most young fans assume. Kobe or Lebron can't go play in the 60's and move around the floor with the freedoms they have today w/o having a sh*t load of dribbling and ball handling turnovers. They might even need a dribbling coach for whatever amount of time to help them crack the habit and dependency on palming. This call if ever called today would baffle both players and fans because it stopped being enforced gradually from the 1960's til present despite it (AFAIK) still being in the rule book. A typical AI or Kobe ISO play is heavily dependent on a lot of palming. Heck, most of the time Kevin Durant can't even bring the ball up the court without palming. This rule isn't BS that oldschool fans make up to prop up or make excuses for old players, it really did exist:

http://youtu.be/PDRQ0FYhC0U

I agree, but the palming does make the game better. I don't mean palming like AI, but just regular palming that allows the players to move a lot better.

But before criticizing the players from the 60s, people should realize that.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The game was so much better back then. Players today wouldn't be able to do anything back in the tough era.

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg



http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/facepalm/grand/facepalm_asian_gif.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

The game was so much better back then. Players today wouldn't be able to do anything back in the tough era.

http://i33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg



http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/facepalm/grand/facepalm_asian_gif.gif
Not suggesting that at all. I'm only educating people about a rule which resulted in players not having the same freedoms to "handle" the ball like today. If players today were warped back into that time they'd be whistled for violations that fans like you were never even aware of. People always say certain players would have to make adjustments from then to now. Well, the inverse is also true for many players.

w/o informing people of these rule difference trolls like you will just ruin NBA history by trying to convince everyone sh*t like "inferior athleticism" was the reason they dribbled so ungracefully:
http://youtu.be/0gKjEKroCPg
which clearly doesn't fit as any sort of reasoning because not everyone from the 60's / 70's was unathletic yet they all dribbled the same way. Jerry West was for example, was considered a far better player than this guy.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not suggesting that at all. I'm only educating people about a rule which resulted in players not having the same freedoms to "handle" the ball like today. If players today were warped back into that time they'd be whistled for violations that fans like you were never even aware of. People always say certain players would have to make adjustments from then to now. Well, the inverse is also true for many players.

w/o informing people of these rule difference trolls like you will just ruin NBA history by trying to convince everyone sh*t like "inferior athleticism" was the reason they dribbled so ungracefully:
http://youtu.be/0gKjEKroCPg
which clearly doesn't fit as any sort of reasoning because not everyone from the 60's / 70's was unathletic yet they all dribbled the same way. Jerry West was for example, was considered a far better player than this guy.
If they started calling, they would adjust. Were talking about the best players in the world, they can dribble.
I know what you're saying, I just get a sense that you may be thinking that basketball back then is better than today...

[Poetry]

that defense :roll: :roll: :roll:

Modern defense has its negative points as well.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2rm6vs6.png

[CavaliersFTW]

If they started calling, they would adjust. Were talking about the best players in the world, they can dribble.
I know what you're saying, I just get a sense that you may be thinking that basketball back then is better than today...
Not "better", but I would like to bring relevance of 60's and 70's era so that it becomes better understood, and it's players assume well deserved places alongside discussions and comparisons with 80's / 90's / 00's players. Contrary to what many people say I believe it is actually possible to compare players back that far if enough of these rule tweaks and subtle game differences become understood so that when they are watching film, less assumptions will be made about why the players aren't doing certain things (like crossing over). There are fans today that don't see that kind of thing happen, and they assume the players back then sucked at dribbling and they also assume a player today would just be able to go back in time and do those kind of moves to them. It makes comparisons in their mind impossible but really it isn't difficult at all to imagine players making adjustments if you understand what the difference maker is (a rule being different... not lack of talent / athleticism). Derrick Rose wouldn't by "tying up" Lenny Wilkins any more readily than Lenny would be immediately crossing him over if transplanted in today's game. Both would need to make adjustments (Rose dropping a habit... Wilkins acquiring newfound control / moves) new to old or old to new would need to make a change. And I think in both scenarios it should be assumed possible for the athletes to make said adjustments.

[jongib369]

Great thread, its nice to SEE an example of that rule

Btw I talked to jlauber earlier and he's been VERY sick. But he's going to be okay just a bad case of the flu and some family matters has kept him away. BUT, he made his first Wilt Highlight...He sent me the file not having a youtube channel himself to upload...the video is somewhat strange...title was to his request as well... but I did it for him anyway!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmshjqvaytg

[ILLsmak]

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/123/f/1/jimmyking1964_by_dantheman9758-d4ygg1c.gif



**** that he traveled.

-Smak

[Legends66NBA7]

**** that he traveled.

-Smak

No different then today, I guess.

:oldlol:

[senelcoolidge]

My Dad played high school basketball back in the 60's. When I was a little kid..this was in the late 80's/early 90's he used to take us to the play ground to play basketball to get some exercise. Looking back I remember he had a set shot, hook shot, and he dribbled differently. I knowing basketball of that time (late 80's/90's) when I dribbled the ball, my father would correct me. He was the first person to tell me about palming. You could only dribble with your hand on top of the ball, not the side. Palming was a traveling violation and it was enforced in the 60's but I guess to give players more liberties it was not enforced as much up until today when they don't call it at all. It's still in the rule book. Rules were strictly enforced. Even assists are inflated in today's game. Assists were accounted differently in those days. Iverson was notorious for palming the ball. This guy here kind of explains the violation.

http://youtu.be/ykaGClxbtqc

[Toizumi]

Not "better", but I would like to bring relevance of 60's and 70's era so that it becomes better understood, and it's players assume well deserved places alongside discussions and comparisons with 80's / 90's / 00's players. Contrary to what many people say I believe it is actually possible to compare players back that far if enough of these rule tweaks and subtle game differences become understood so that when they are watching film, less assumptions will be made about why the players aren't doing certain things (like crossing over). There are fans today that don't see that kind of thing happen, and they assume the players back then sucked at dribbling and they also assume a player today would just be able to go back in time and do those kind of moves to them. It makes comparisons in their mind impossible but really it isn't difficult at all to imagine players making adjustments if you understand what the difference maker is (a rule being different... not lack of talent / athleticism). Derrick Rose wouldn't by "tying up" Lenny Wilkins any more readily than Lenny would be immediately crossing him over if transplanted in today's game. Both would need to make adjustments (Rose dropping a habit... Wilkins acquiring newfound control / moves) new to old or old to new would need to make a change. And I think in both scenarios it should be assumed possible for the athletes to make said adjustments.

I think the best thing to do is to not compare players that played in completely different between era's in terms of skillset.

The 60's weren't a joke, no era is. This league (well, ABA and NBA) had the best players in the world always. You can't play better competition than the best there is, so all credit due to the stars of the old days.

However, I hate it when people post footage from the 60's and compare it to todays game: "See, we had great moves back then as well". Of course they did. However, a lot of old game footage consists of guys that strictly dribble with their right and aren't fluent at all. Not just because of the game rules, but because that was how they played back then. Some guys stand out of course, but there were a lot of players that in today's era would be considered stiffs. Yes, they were the best players in the world back then and I fully recognize and respect that, but still.. It's not just rules and circumstances or whatever.

Who cares how Russell and Wilt would do in todays game. It's all speculation.