Could MJ do what Lebron did?

[Miserio]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.

[RRR3]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.
http://www.easyfundraisingcards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/living-under-a-rock1.jpg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Any all star surrounded with teammates capable of playing top 5 defense is capable of upsetting one good team in a series, beating two teams without winning records and getting swept in the Finals.

:confusedshrug:

[LastEpisode]

Yes he can, now go to sleep..

[tmacattack33]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.



"Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life"

:biggums:










:wtf:












:roll:

[Miserio]

I know he won one last year. Im a celtic fan, i suffered his game 6 against us. The point was even if he didnt won that one, he would have been a top 20 alltime for what he did before.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I know he won one last year. Im a celtic fan, i suffered his game 6 against us. The point was even if he didnt won that one, he would have been a top 20 alltime for what he did before.

for getting swept in the finals :no:
for beating 1 .500 playoff team :no:
for beating a second .500 playoff team :no:

for beating one good team (the Pistons):biggums:

:roll:

[sekachu]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.


yes, prime MJ could lead 07 cavs to 50 plus win but not sure reaching a nba final


Talk about horrible team then let me ask you back a question. Do you think lebron could carry 85, 86 bulls team to 50+ wins and reaching final?

[coin24]

Prime MJ wins 2 rings on those 60+ wins Cavs teams because he's not a choking piece of shit...

They go from best team in the league, to scrubs surrounding LeBrick as soon as they lose??:lol Classic LeBron stans...

He also wins vs the Spurs because hes the GOAT...


Good for Bronzey, he joined some other "superstars" and won a ring. Shame it'll only be one though as the East got stronger now, and the Lakers will destroy them if they meet in the finals:cheers:

[Micku]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.

It was very impressive. But didn't Jordan did something similar in the 1989 playoffs when he made "the shot". The Bulls beat the superior team against the Cavs, who beat four straight against that season, then beat the Knicks, who also had a better record than them, but lost to the Pistons who eventually won the championship.

An interesting fact is that the only team that Pistons lost a couple of games to were the Bulls in that playoffs. The Pistons swept every other team, including the Lakers in the Finals.

[funnystuff]

for getting swept in the finals :no:
for beating 1 .500 playoff team :no:
for beating a second .500 playoff team :no:

for beating one good team (the Pistons):biggums:

:roll:
Why do you hate this dude so much ---> :lebronamazed:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Why do you hate this dude so much ---> :lebronamazed:

I hate ignorance and mythology. I don't hate LeBron. I know nothing about him outside of the fact that he is good at playing a game in which 5 players try to put a ball in a raised hoop while 5 other players try to stop them. :confusedshrug:

[keepinitreal]

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef0162ff071fd7970d-600wi

[Ikill]

Lebrons 07 playoff run is so overrated oh but Lebron carried a horrible team to the finals and no played could of beat the Spurs with that Cavs. Lebron played like shit in the playoffs for the most part he shot under 40% in 12 games so i have a hard time believing Lebron was carrying anything. Also i don't consider a team that is top 5 in defense and rebounding and can go 3-1 without their best player. Also the east was weak beating two 500 teams that were injured is not impressive and than a old past its prime Pistons without Ben Wallace. Lets also not forget the Cavs lost by an average of 6 points with Lebron averaging 22 points on 36%. If Lebron plays bad and not terrible in the 07 finals Cavs would be going back to Cleveland up 3-1 or at the very least its 2-2. I think you could of replaced quite a few players with Lebron in 07 and they win it all. But lets ignore the facts and say the Cavs had no chance

[KOBE143]

I know one thing that MJ couldn't do that Lebron did..


2011 finals..

[tmacattack33]

Lebrons 07 playoff run is so overrated oh but Lebron carried a horrible team to the finals and no played could of beat the Spurs with that Cavs. Lebron played like shit in the playoffs for the most part he shot under 40% in 12 games so i have a hard time believing Lebron was carrying anything. Also i don't consider a team that is top 5 in defense and rebounding and can go 3-1 without their best player. Also the east was weak beating two 500 teams that were injured is not impressive and than a old past its prime Pistons without Ben Wallace. Lets also not forget the Cavs lost by an average of 6 points with Lebron averaging 22 points on 36%. If Lebron plays bad and not terrible in the 07 finals Cavs would be going back to Cleveland up 3-1 or at the very least its 2-2. I think you could of replaced quite a few players with Lebron in 07 and they win it all. But lets ignore the facts and say the Cavs had no chance

I've never even heard anyone try to use that 3-1 stat before (which is crazy considering the amount of Lebron haters there are).

But anyway...

If you really look at games without said player in such high regards...from 2004 to 2010, Lebron missed 26 games.

Cleveland was 10-16 (.385) in these games.

With him they were 339-209 (.618).



I expect that now you will change your mind and say that a team's record without their star player doesn't really matter or whatever.

[G.O.A.T]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.

If the Bad Boys were at the same phase of their progression as the Goin' to Work Pistons were in '07, yes, Jordan could have done it.

The Bulls teams that won five playoff series between 1988-1990 (and only lost to Detroit, the best team during that era) were not much better, if at all than the '07 Cavs. Pippen didn't become Pippen until 1990ish, and even then he wasn't always sure of himself on offense. Same with Grant. Oakley was the best player MJ had played with and they traded him to get Cartwright.

[bdreason]

It was an impressive run, but I actually think MJ would have been a better fit for that roster. He certainly could have won 50 games, and probably would have beaten the Magic and Pistons as well.


I don't think he beats the Spurs in the Finals though.

[SourPatchKids]

I know one thing that MJ couldn't do that Lebron did..


2011 finals..
http://www.narutobase.net/forums/images/smilies/lmao.gif

[pauk]

Well said and dont mind the negative comments (you are in a Lebron hatred infested forum aka. butthurt Kobetards).

[pauk]

I know one thing that MJ couldn't do that Lebron did..


2011 finals..

How the hell do you know when Jordan wasnt in Lebrons situation? Throw Jordan teammates like Larry Bird & Magic Johnson (since so many pathetically like to compre Bosh/Wade to them) and other completely new teammates... tell him to play a completely new role, tell him to share the ball, tell him its gona be a completley new offense.... and im sure what happened to Lebron in that Finals series would happen to ANYONE (unless that guy was way to selfish)... Lebron was simple passive, unselfish, confused, new role, offense, teammates, everything... he wasnt allowed to be 100% LEBRON.........


This year he was... and Wade saying finally "its your team Lebron, you are the leader, take us away" made things even easier....

[blacknapalm]

How the hell do you know when Jordan wasnt in Lebrons situation? Throw Jordan teammates like Larry Bird & Magic Johnson (since so many pathetically like to compre Bosh/Wade to them) and other completely new teammates... tell him to play a completely new role, tell him to share the ball, tell him its gona be a completley new offense.... and im sure what happened to Lebron in that Finals series would happen to ANYONE (unless that guy was way to selfish)... Lebron was simple passive, unselfish, confused, new role, offense, teammates, everything... he wasnt allowed to be 100% LEBRON.........


This year he was... and Wade saying finally "its your team Lebron, you are the leader, take us away" made things even easier....

not even a crackhead would compare bosh to magic or bird.

MJ wouldn't have needed wade to say that...like ever. i know it's in lebron's nature to be unselfish and aware of his teammates' needs and capabilities but there's no way MJ would have sat on the perimeter confused. even if he struggled elsewhere, he'd be attacking the basket. he'd be more demanding.

he wouldn't be watching haslem try to grab a rebound or do two immediate chest passes in the 4th quarter. the times lebron guarded terry? he didn't need the approval of his teammates on that end. terry was going off when lebron guarded him.

MJ wouldn't have let any of that happen. he would have emptied his clip and if he did go down...he'd go down in flames. low FG%, fouling out, getting a T, etc. you would have known he was doing all he could to win the game or was at least attempting to do so. he was otherworldly competitive and his focus was maniacal, to the point he didn't care if he offended anyone else. MJ's mental intensity was one of his biggest attributes.

[coin24]

How the hell do you know when Jordan wasnt in Lebrons situation? Throw Jordan teammates like Larry Bird & Magic Johnson (since so many pathetically like to compre Bosh/Wade to them) and other completely new teammates... tell him to play a completely new role, tell him to share the ball, tell him its gona be a completley new offense.... and im sure what happened to Lebron in that Finals series would happen to ANYONE (unless that guy was way to selfish)... Lebron was simple passive, unselfish, confused, new role, offense, teammates, everything... he wasnt allowed to be 100% LEBRON.........


This year he was... and Wade saying finally "its your team Lebron, you are the leader, take us away" made things even easier....


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Only Pauk can defend Bronzeys 2011 finals:lol :facepalm


Pathetic. Straight up choke... MJ in that situation? Championship.

[longtime lurker]

Iverson essentially did the same thing in 2001 :confusedshrug:

[pauk]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Only Pauk can defend Bronzeys 2011 finals:lol :facepalm


Pathetic. Straight up choke... MJ in that situation? Championship.

No, but to imply that thats ALL which happened... simply "Lebron choked" is completely ignorant and what a typical Lebron butthurting ignorant kid would only wish....

Did you know that Lebron shot 48% FG in that Finals? Which is higher than all Kobes Finals series FG% percentages except only one.... Did you know that he led everybody in assists and rebounds (around with Chandler) in that Finals?

Scoring wise Lebron was simply passive, confused with how he was gona approach the game with his new role and with Wade & Bosh around him and on the other end tired physically & mentally, then Wade caught fire and so he didnt mind defering to him at all, they were doing good except in the clutch time where nobody was able to match Dirk Nowitzki, he played his best games of his entire life.... that entire year was a learning process for him and his teammates in every chemistry way and it hit them at the worst time... meanwhile, take a look at what happen to Kobe that exact Playoff run against Mavs.... what excuse did he have?

[shallehalle]

Prime MJ wins 2 rings on those 60+ wins Cavs teams because he's not a choking piece of shit...

They go from best team in the league, to scrubs surrounding LeBrick as soon as they lose??:lol Classic LeBron stans...

He also wins vs the Spurs because hes the GOAT...


Good for Bronzey, he joined some other "superstars" and won a ring. Shame it'll only be one though as the East got stronger now, and the Lakers will destroy them if they meet in the finals:cheers:
Prime MJ wouldn't win shit in 2009 when they faced Orlando, unless Howard would get injured

2010.. yeah probably

Prime MJ would not have won with Cavs in 2007 against Spurs, it's not like MJ always won during his career

[LeBird]

Jordan? Maybe, but probably not. IMO players that could realistically do it would be Magic, Bird and Wilt.

[pauk]

not even a crackhead would compare bosh to magic or bird.

MJ wouldn't have needed wade to say that...like ever. i know it's in lebron's nature to be unselfish and aware of his teammates' needs and capabilities but there's no way MJ would have sat on the perimeter confused. even if he struggled elsewhere, he'd be attacking the basket. he'd be more demanding.

he wouldn't be watching haslem try to grab a rebound or do two immediate chest passes in the 4th quarter. the times lebron guarded terry? he didn't need the approval of his teammates on that end. terry was going off when lebron guarded him.

MJ wouldn't have let any of that happen. he would have emptied his clip and if he did go down...he'd go down in flames. low FG%, fouling out, getting a T, etc. you would have known he was doing all he could to win the game or was at least attempting to do so. he was otherworldly competitive and his focus was maniacal, to the point he didn't care if he offended anyone else. MJ's mental intensity was one of his biggest attributes.

No... The "problem" the trio of Lebron-Wade-Bosh created at the beginning is what the trio of Jordan-Barkley-Bird (or insert other names next to Jordan) created in the Olympics.... understand what i mean? Jordan showed he couldnt simply alienate them even though he knew (and everybody knew) he was probably the best player there.... he had to figure out a way to use everybody and play a team game, its a different role/approach than being the one-man-army he was in Chicago, this ended up with even Barkley ending up with averaging the most points, imagine if this was the Finals and now Barkley won the FMVP or they even lost the series..... would you then say Jordan choked or would you be honest and say it like it is, he simply was unselfish, cautious of alienating him and that other all-star/superstar.... Its a different approach & strategy and its not something you can figure out immediately, if that Olympic team had someone to challenge them this chemistry problem would be put to display..... in Chicago he was allowed to be Jordan, Pippen was a true sidekick all the time, Wade wasnt that for Lebron the 1st year... not even close... its not until this year Wade allowed Lebron to be LEBRON, he verbally expressed that over and over... and look what happened...

Besides, Lebrons approach to the game and his teammates is more closer to Magic Johnson/Larry Bird rather than Michael Jordan, he is more unselfish.... this is basically the biggest difference between MJ & Lebron...

Speaking of Larry Bird, he had a similar transmission in 1981 Finals as Lebron did in 2011 Finals... except he had even back to back 8 point games... for the same exact reason as Lebron that 1st year in Miami, he was a Rookie basically and was simply unselfish, first time in the Finals and had Parish & Cedric Maxwell next to him... Cedric Maxwell caught fire and so Bird facilitated (see a pattern here with Lebron & Wade in 2011 Finals?), they won that championship though and Cedric Maxwell was the FMVP (lucky for Bird or else i recon that performance would be somewhat more notable as one of his worst performances ever, for simply doing the right thing)...........

[KOBE143]

No... The "problem" the trio of Lebron-Wade-Bosh created at the beginning is what the trio of Jordan-Barkley-Bird (or insert other names next to Jordan) created in the Olympics.... understand what i mean? Jordan showed he couldnt simply alienate them even though he knew (and everybody knew) he was probably the best player there.... he had to figure out a way to use everybody and play a team game, its a different role/approach than being the one-man-army he was in Chicago, this ended up with even Barkley ending up with averaging the most points, imagine if this was the Finals and now Barkley won the FMVP or they even lost the series..... would you then say Jordan choked or would you be honest and say it like it is, he simply was unselfish, cautious of alienating him and that other all-star/superstar.... Its a different approach & strategy and its not something you can figure out immediately, if that Olympic team had someone to challenge them this chemistry problem would be put to display..... in Chicago he was allowed to be Jordan, Pippen was a true sidekick all the time, Wade wasnt that for Lebron the 1st year... not even close... its not until this year Wade allowed Lebron to be LEBRON, he verbally expressed that over and over... and look what happened...

Besides, Lebrons approach to the game and his teammates is more closer to Magic Johnson/Larry Bird rather than Michael Jordan, he is more unselfish.... this is basically the biggest difference between MJ & Lebron...

Speaking of Larry Bird, he had a similar transmission in 1981 Finals as Lebron did in 2011 Finals... except he had even back to back 8 point games... for the same exact reason as Lebron that 1st year in Miami, he was a Rookie basically and was simply unselfish, first time in the Finals and had Parish & Cedric Maxwell next to him... Cedric Maxwell caught fire and so Bird facilitated (see a pattern here with Lebron & Wade in 2011 Finals?), they won that championship though and Cedric Maxwell was the FMVP (lucky for Bird or else i recon that performance would be somewhat more notable as one of his worst performances ever, for simply doing the right thing)...........
excuse.. excuse.. blah blah blah.. Just accept it already.. LeBrick choked big time.. Deal with it..

[The Iron Fist]

Face five. 500 or worse teams in 21 playoff series?

Not sure anyone has had that luxury.


Good job, good effort though.

[Da_Realist]

If the Bad Boys were at the same phase of their progression as the Goin' to Work Pistons were in '07, yes, Jordan could have done it.

The Bulls teams that won five playoff series between 1988-1990 (and only lost to Detroit, the best team during that era) were not much better, if at all than the '07 Cavs. Pippen didn't become Pippen until 1990ish, and even then he wasn't always sure of himself on offense. Same with Grant. Oakley was the best player MJ had played with and they traded him to get Cartwright.

This.

[guy]

How the hell do you know when Jordan wasnt in Lebrons situation? Throw Jordan teammates like Larry Bird & Magic Johnson (since so many pathetically like to compre Bosh/Wade to them) and other completely new teammates... tell him to play a completely new role, tell him to share the ball, tell him its gona be a completley new offense.... and im sure what happened to Lebron in that Finals series would happen to ANYONE (unless that guy was way to selfish)... Lebron was simple passive, unselfish, confused, new role, offense, teammates, everything... he wasnt allowed to be 100% LEBRON.........


This year he was... and Wade saying finally "its your team Lebron, you are the leader, take us away" made things even easier....

:oldlol: What a completely stupid thing to say. So it would take a player thats too selfish to play better then Lebron did in the Finals? Do you not understand how stupid that sounds? And Lebron was playing with those "completely new teammates" for about 9 months at that point when you include training camp, and seemed to have no problem playing with them when they basically steamrolled through the Eastern Conference facing very good teams. :oldlol: at you making it seem like Lebron was faced with this impossible, difficult, and burdening situation. Just stop making excuses. He choked. He won his ring now and he deserves all the props in the world for what he did this year. But that doesn't change the fact that he choked worse then arguably any superstar ever has last year, and its certainly ridiculous to think that something like that would've happened to Jordan.

[guy]

As for the question, I don't see why not. Lebron didn't even exactly play that great in those playoffs. They played some bad teams in the first 2 rounds, and then played one of the most lackadaisical and complacent elite teams I've ever seen in the ECF.

[daily]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.It wasn't that bad a team and the east was fairly weak at the time. Lebron having bad teams to carry is a myth

[b1imtf]

How the hell do you know when Jordan wasnt in Lebrons situation? Throw Jordan teammates like Larry Bird & Magic Johnson (since so many pathetically like to compre Bosh/Wade to them) and other completely new teammates... tell him to play a completely new role, tell him to share the ball, tell him its gona be a completley new offense.... and im sure what happened to Lebron in that Finals series would happen to ANYONE (unless that guy was way to selfish)... Lebron was simple passive, unselfish, confused, new role, offense, teammates, everything... he wasnt allowed to be 100% LEBRON.........


This year he was... and Wade saying finally "its your team Lebron, you are the leader, take us away" made things even easier....
Everything looked fine until the finals

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird could.

Maybe even others like Kareem, Magic, Walton, Russ, Hakeem...

[Money 23]

Prime MJ wins 2 rings on those 60+ wins Cavs teams because he's not a choking piece of shit...
Seeing as 2009 and 2010 LeBron are PEAK versions, so the comprable years for MJ would be 1990, 1991, and 1992 ... yes MJ easily wins in 2009 v.s. the Lakers, and probably 2010 v.s. the Celtics and then the Lakers. MJ's mentality is the perfect organic basketball mentality. Doesn't force the issue ala Kobe at the expense of others trying to establish alpha status, and doesn't become too passive ala LeBron to not offend any teammate by stepping on toes.

[lilgodfather1]

No because that would mean the Cavs would be starting a 6-5 player at small forward. Larry Hughes was shorter than MJ, and was hurt for much of it. In 2009 MJ never played a series as good as LeBron did, so the results don't change EVEN if we say MJ puts up the greatest series of his career. 38/8/8 is too good to expect a repeat of.

Edit: 2008 the team wasn't used to playing together after the mega trade that shipped out a third of the roster for Wally, Ben, and West, who all became starters in the playoffs so the fact that the Cavs brought Boston to game 7 is a miracle in itself. I will admit though MJ might have played better than LeBron did for the first 6 games (he was pretty bad through 5), but if it still went to 7 then LeBron's game 7 would cancel out anything MJ would have done.

In 2010 the Cavs should have won the title, but LeBron quit so I assume MJ could have.

[Young X]

No because that would mean the Cavs would be starting a 6-5 player at small forward. Larry Hughes was shorter than MJ, and was hurt for much of it. In 2009 MJ never played a series as good as LeBron did, so the results don't change EVEN if we say MJ puts up the greatest series of his career. 38/8/8 is too good to expect a repeat of.
Please explain.

[Money 23]

No because that would mean the Cavs would be starting a 6-5 player at small forward. Larry Hughes was shorter than MJ, and was hurt for much of it.
Larry Hughes is 6'7 and MJ is 6'6. Larry Hughes played SF on the Wizards with 40 year old MJ playing either SG or SF. They switched back and forth at the positions. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about.



In 2009 MJ never played a series as good as LeBron did
:oldlol:

He's played better series, and has had other comparable series in far greater numbers than LeBron's one series.

2009 Cavs did lose because Mo Williams failed to show up. So maybe that one is un-avoidable. MJ suffered the same fate in 1989 and 1990 because the lack of a 2nd option stepping up.

But MJ wins w/ the Cavs in 2010. LeBron quit after game 3, and had already mentally moved on to a new franchise and future potential success at the expense of his current teammates.

Went out like a b1tch that season. MJ wouldn't go down like that ...

[lilgodfather1]

Larry Hughes is 6'7 and MJ is 6'6. Larry Hughes played SF on the Wizards with 40 year old MJ playing either SG or SF. They switched back and forth at the positions. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about.



:oldlol:

He's played better series, and has had other comparable series in far greater numbers than LeBron's one series.

2009 Cavs did lose because Mo Williams failed to show up. So maybe that one is un-avoidable. MJ suffered the same fate in 1989 and 1990 because the lack of a 2nd option stepping up.

But MJ wins w/ the Cavs in 2010. LeBron quit after game 3, and had already mentally moved on to a new franchise and future potential success at the expense of his current teammates.

Went out like a b1tch that season. MJ wouldn't go down like that ...
Post the series that were better than the 2009 ECF... Good luck finding one that was against a comparable defense. Don't forget to pace adjust the numbers too. Hughes was 6'6 tops.

[Money 23]

Post the series that were better than the 2009 ECF... Good luck finding one that was against a comparable defense. Don't forget to pace adjust the numbers too. Hughes was 6'6 tops.
The Magic weren't some great all-time caliber defense, my dude.

Apart from D12, they didn't have one above average defender on that team.

MJ in actuality is 6'5, Larry Hughes is taller than MJ.

No pace adjustments. The numbers are what they are ... it's all relative to the league they played in at the time.

MJ's had many superior playoff series than LeBron's 38/8/8 in a loss v.s. the Magic in 2009.

I'll just wait for Loki / Oldschoolbball to come in and drop knowledge with numbers and context. I don't have time to do the research. But he's had MANY ... I should expect this kind of stupidity from such a young buck like you.

You think LeBron is the best player of all-time, stay on his nuts 24/7 and believe today's defenses are super advanced. Your basketball knowledge is all kinds of messed up.

[Young X]

Post the series that were better than the 2009 ECF... Good luck finding one that was against a comparable defense. Don't forget to pace adjust the numbers too.
MJ averaged 45/5/5/3 stls on 56% vs the Cavs in 1988. The Cavs held the Bulls to 102 pts on 46% in that series, which is 1 point and 1% higher than what the Magic held the Cavs to in their series. That's just one series.

[Money 23]

MJ averaged 45/5/5/3 stls on 56% vs the Cavs in 1988. The Cavs held the Bulls to 102 pts on 46% in that series, which is 1 point and 1% higher than what the Magic held the Cavs to in their series. That's just one series.
Seriously.

But dude just wait, Loki will come in here with stats from multiple series that will bust lilgodfather1 open like a virgin pu$$y. Just wait ...

Guy stays hanging on to LeBron's mushroom tip.

[tmacattack33]

Iverson essentially did the same thing in 2001 :confusedshrug:

Iverson had Mutombo and Aaron Mckie. Both of them are better than any one Lebron had.


And Philly showed they were capable of doing damage without Iverson. When he was hurt the following year, their defense improved (which is no surprise, he was a bad defender surrounded by four good to great defenders) and they didn't do so bad.

[Mr Exlax]

The thing that blew me away about Lebron last season was that he led his team in a ton of categories. It's amazing that he had to do all that just to win while still having players like Wade and Bosh on the team. He literally had to do everything and still win. It's s not a good sign to me that one player has to lead a team in that many categories just to win. I don't remember seeing Jordan do that.

[coin24]

No, but to imply that thats ALL which happened... simply "Lebron choked" is completely ignorant and what a typical Lebron butthurting ignorant kid would only wish....

Did you know that Lebron shot 48% FG in that Finals? Which is higher than all Kobes Finals series FG% percentages except only one.... Did you know that he led everybody in assists and rebounds (around with Chandler) in that Finals?

Scoring wise Lebron was simply passive, confused with how he was gona approach the game with his new role and with Wade & Bosh around him and on the other end tired physically & mentally, then Wade caught fire and so he didnt mind defering to him at all, they were doing good except in the clutch time where nobody was able to match Dirk Nowitzki, he played his best games of his entire life.... that entire year was a learning process for him and his teammates in every chemistry way and it hit them at the worst time... meanwhile, take a look at what happen to Kobe that exact Playoff run against Mavs.... what excuse did he have?



We're not talking about Kobe here... Stay on topic

LeBron straight up choked in the 2011 finals. One of the most embarassing performances from a "superstar" of all time:lol
No ones saying he didnt have a great year in 2012, that doesnt mean you excuse all his shitty previous failures...

The whole team chemistry thing is the biggest load of BS ever. They had a great run through the season/east playoffs, you know what the difference in the finals was? LeBitch happened... GOAT finals choke...

[Money 23]

LeBron straight up choked in the 2011 finals.
Oh absolutely. One of the worst in history. Don't let pauk (Savanna James) tell you different.

There is no way around it, he choked in 2011 in a MAJOR way. And in 2010, totally quit on his team and franchise

And not just in one single game where he was frustrated. He quit on an entire series / season after an amazing game 3 performance, where the Cavs played to their potential.

The Cavs could've beat those Celtics. Or at the very least gave them a series. He straight up quit like a spoiled child.

That's why this year's ring still doesn't make up for the exits of 2010 and 2011 he left on his resume.

In 2010, he refused to even try. When he was at the top of his game, no less.

[tmacman]

No... The "problem" the trio of Lebron-Wade-Bosh created at the beginning is what the trio of Jordan-Barkley-Bird (or insert other names next to Jordan) created in the Olympics.... understand what i mean? Jordan showed he couldnt simply alienate them even though he knew (and everybody knew) he was probably the best player there.... he had to figure out a way to use everybody and play a team game, its a different role/approach than being the one-man-army he was in Chicago, this ended up with even Barkley ending up with averaging the most points, imagine if this was the Finals and now Barkley won the FMVP or they even lost the series..... would you then say Jordan choked or would you be honest and say it like it is, he simply was unselfish, cautious of alienating him and that other all-star/superstar.... Its a different approach & strategy and its not something you can figure out immediately, if that Olympic team had someone to challenge them this chemistry problem would be put to display..... in Chicago he was allowed to be Jordan, Pippen was a true sidekick all the time, Wade wasnt that for Lebron the 1st year... not even close... its not until this year Wade allowed Lebron to be LEBRON, he verbally expressed that over and over... and look what happened...

Besides, Lebrons approach to the game and his teammates is more closer to Magic Johnson/Larry Bird rather than Michael Jordan, he is more unselfish.... this is basically the biggest difference between MJ & Lebron...

Speaking of Larry Bird, he had a similar transmission in 1981 Finals as Lebron did in 2011 Finals... except he had even back to back 8 point games... for the same exact reason as Lebron that 1st year in Miami, he was a Rookie basically and was simply unselfish, first time in the Finals and had Parish & Cedric Maxwell next to him... Cedric Maxwell caught fire and so Bird facilitated (see a pattern here with Lebron & Wade in 2011 Finals?), they won that championship though and Cedric Maxwell was the FMVP (lucky for Bird or else i recon that performance would be somewhat more notable as one of his worst performances ever, for simply doing the right thing)...........
I could see tears coming down your eyes while typing this. he choked, get over it. Also, quit trying to use big words that don't make sense. transmission? What? :biggums: :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

That 07 Piston's team is one of the biggest choking teams ever. They played about as horrible as a team could play. I don't really think it's what Lebron did, but what the PISTON'S DIDN'T DO. They should have never lost that series.

[Money 23]

That 07 Piston's team is one of the biggest choking teams ever. They played about as horrible as a team could play. I don't really think it's what Lebron did, but what the PISTON'S DIDN'T DO. They should have never lost that series.
True.

Little known fact, LeBron was terrible that entire series apart from that one game, too.

This was also a Pistons sans Ben Wallace, a team that was starting to become a shell of what they were at their peak from 2003 - 2006

[guy]

No... The "problem" the trio of Lebron-Wade-Bosh created at the beginning is what the trio of Jordan-Barkley-Bird (or insert other names next to Jordan) created in the Olympics.... understand what i mean? Jordan showed he couldnt simply alienate them even though he knew (and everybody knew) he was probably the best player there.... he had to figure out a way to use everybody and play a team game, its a different role/approach than being the one-man-army he was in Chicago, this ended up with even Barkley ending up with averaging the most points, imagine if this was the Finals and now Barkley won the FMVP or they even lost the series..... would you then say Jordan choked or would you be honest and say it like it is, he simply was unselfish, cautious of alienating him and that other all-star/superstar.... Its a different approach & strategy and its not something you can figure out immediately, if that Olympic team had someone to challenge them this chemistry problem would be put to display..... in Chicago he was allowed to be Jordan, Pippen was a true sidekick all the time, Wade wasnt that for Lebron the 1st year... not even close... its not until this year Wade allowed Lebron to be LEBRON, he verbally expressed that over and over... and look what happened...



:oldlol: Right. I'm sure Jordan deferred to Barkley because he was afraid they might lose to Angola and Croatia if the chemistry wasn't right.

[lilgodfather1]

MJ averaged 45/5/5/3 stls on 56% vs the Cavs in 1988. The Cavs held the Bulls to 102 pts on 46% in that series, which is 1 point and 1% higher than what the Magic held the Cavs to in their series. That's just one series.
What was the pace... Besides MJ put up including assists at minimum 55 poins, and LeBron at minimum 54 points. Considering that the three point shot has become a larger part of the game in the last decade means LeBron likely gave his team more points including the assists.

Face it one more point added doesn't change the series, and considering MJ likely had 10+ more possessions to get the stats is a yawner.

[ILLsmak]

Larry Hughes is 6'7 and MJ is 6'6. Larry Hughes played SF on the Wizards with 40 year old MJ playing either SG or SF. They switched back and forth at the positions. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about.



:oldlol:

He's played better series, and has had other comparable series in far greater numbers than LeBron's one series.

2009 Cavs did lose because Mo Williams failed to show up. So maybe that one is un-avoidable. MJ suffered the same fate in 1989 and 1990 because the lack of a 2nd option stepping up.

But MJ wins w/ the Cavs in 2010. LeBron quit after game 3, and had already mentally moved on to a new franchise and future potential success at the expense of his current teammates.

Went out like a b1tch that season. MJ wouldn't go down like that ...

Yeah, although the Jamison trade was stupid, people forget that team in 2010 was a championship contender. All Bron had to do was play well. If he played like he played in 12 they win the ring.

-Smak

[TheMarkMadsen]

No... The "problem" the trio of Lebron-Wade-Bosh created at the beginning is what the trio of Jordan-Barkley-Bird (or insert other names next to Jordan) created in the Olympics.... understand what i mean? Jordan showed he couldnt simply alienate them even though he knew (and everybody knew) he was probably the best player there.... he had to figure out a way to use everybody and play a team game, its a different role/approach than being the one-man-army he was in Chicago, this ended up with even Barkley ending up with averaging the most points, imagine if this was the Finals and now Barkley won the FMVP or they even lost the series..... would you then say Jordan choked or would you be honest and say it like it is, he simply was unselfish, cautious of alienating him and that other all-star/superstar.... Its a different approach & strategy and its not something you can figure out immediately, if that Olympic team had someone to challenge them this chemistry problem would be put to display..... in Chicago he was allowed to be Jordan, Pippen was a true sidekick all the time, Wade wasnt that for Lebron the 1st year... not even close... its not until this year Wade allowed Lebron to be LEBRON, he verbally expressed that over and over... and look what happened...

Besides, Lebrons approach to the game and his teammates is more closer to Magic Johnson/Larry Bird rather than Michael Jordan, he is more unselfish.... this is basically the biggest difference between MJ & Lebron...

Speaking of Larry Bird, he had a similar transmission in 1981 Finals as Lebron did in 2011 Finals... except he had even back to back 8 point games... for the same exact reason as Lebron that 1st year in Miami, he was a Rookie basically and was simply unselfish, first time in the Finals and had Parish & Cedric Maxwell next to him... Cedric Maxwell caught fire and so Bird facilitated (see a pattern here with Lebron & Wade in 2011 Finals?), they won that championship though and Cedric Maxwell was the FMVP (lucky for Bird or else i recon that performance would be somewhat more notable as one of his worst performances ever, for simply doing the right thing)...........


:roll: This dude's so butthurt he can't even speak english.

I swear pauk you're just Lebron's long lost father, trying to ammend for a broken past.

It's a little late son.

[Da_Realist]

MJ averaged 45/5/5/3 stls on 56% vs the Cavs in 1988. The Cavs held the Bulls to 102 pts on 46% in that series, which is 1 point and 1% higher than what the Magic held the Cavs to in their series. That's just one series.

45 points on 56% is ridiculous.

He had another 45 point series...vs Miami in 92.
45 pts, 10 rebs, 7 asts, 3 stls, 1 blk on...get this...

61% from the field.

That's just disgusting.

[Young X]

What was the pace... Besides MJ put up including assists at minimum 55 poins, and LeBron at minimum 54 points. Considering that the three point shot has become a larger part of the game in the last decade means LeBron likely gave his team more points including the assists.

Face it one more point added doesn't change the series, and considering MJ likely had 10+ more possessions to get the stats is a yawner.
- I can't find the pace for that series, but the Bulls were the slowest team in the league that season and any small advantage that MJ might have had in pace is easily countered by LeBron recieveing 16 FT's per game.

- LeBron had more assists and defensive rebounds, but MJ was better in every other category including points, fg%, FT%, steals, blocks, and offensive rebounds.

[keepinitreal]

look at what MJ did in the 1980's. he was pretty awesome, but he didn't have the help he had in the 1990's.

[Asukal]

Could Lebron do what MJ did?

Fixed. :rolleyes:

[Young X]

People don't understand what MJ did in the late 80's, in 1989 he was 0.6 rebounds away from leading his team in every category, he lead a 47 win Bulls team past two 52+ win teams without homecourt, while averaging 38/8/8/2.7 stls on 53%. In the ECF the Bulls were the only team to beat the Pistons in the playoffs, and took them to six games despite winning 16 less games than them. Unless you think the '07 Pistons were better than the '89 Pistons, this shouldn't be a debate.

[KOBE143]

People don't understand what MJ did in the late 80's, in 1989 he was 0.6 rebounds away from leading his team in every category, he lead a 47 win Bulls team past two 52+ win teams without homecourt, while averaging 38/8/8/2.7 stls on 53%. In the ECF the Bulls were the only team to beat the Pistons in the playoffs, and took them to six games despite winning 16 less games than them. Unless you think the '07 Pistons were better than the '89 Pistons, this shouldn't be a debate.
this

Retarded LeBrick stans always like to brought up his 2007 PO run.. They act like no one can carry that team into the finals except LeBron but forget to mention his competition.. The east teams back then were weak.. Almost every teams there sucks.. Winning in the ECF series was almost equivalent in winning in the first round for the West team.. To me 2007 east team is equal to 2001 east team.. Actually AI 2001 PO run was far better than LeBron 2007 overrated PO run..

2001 East >>> 2007 East team (Both sucks tho)
2001 Sixers = 2007 Cavs
2001 AI >>> 2007 LeBron

See.. Theres really nothing impressive in his run.. If AI can do that then imagine Jordan or Kobe in that weak east competition.. Absolute domination..

[Da_Realist]

People don't understand what MJ did in the late 80's, in 1989 he was 0.6 rebounds away from leading his team in every category, he lead a 47 win Bulls team past two 52+ win teams without homecourt, while averaging 38/8/8/2.7 stls on 53%. In the ECF the Bulls were the only team to beat the Pistons in the playoffs, and took them to six games despite winning 16 less games than them. Unless you think the '07 Pistons were better than the '89 Pistons, this shouldn't be a debate.

...while averaging 18 points more than the 2nd leading scorer on the team. His averages were

32.5 pts (1st)
8.0 rebs (2nd)
8.0 asts (1st)
2.9 stls (1st)
0.8 blks (1st)
and shot 54% from the field. The only person who shot better on the team was Ed Nealy, who only averaged 0.8 ppg.

The ironic thing is...casual fans would gain much more respect for what he did had he gained 1 more rebound and lost, say 10 points. Then we could say, "MJ led the team in every single category" even though he would have CLEARLY been less productive.

It's like how a triple double has become the benchmark for well-roundedness but a 38, 8 and 9 statline is just another game.

[LeBird]

It was an all-time effort from Jordan...but you guys do realise that he had Pippen and Grant at the time. Lebron didn't have a player of that caliber, let alone two.

[Young X]

It was an all-time effort from Jordan...but you guys do realise that he had Pippen and Grant at the time. Lebron didn't have a player of that caliber, let alone two.
Pippen and Grant were only in their second seasons, Pippen averaged 14 pts and 6 rebounds, and Grant averaged 12 pts and 9 rebounds.

[Ne 1]

for getting swept in the finals :no:
for beating 1 .500 playoff team :no:
for beating a second .500 playoff team :no:

for beating one good team (the Pistons):biggums:

:roll:

Even calling a depleted Pistons squad without Ben Wallace "good" is being generous. Not to mention if it wasn't for Boobie Gibson bailing out LeBron, the Cavs would have lost to the Pistons that year.

[LeBird]

Pippen and Grant were only in their second seasons, Pippen averaged 14 pts and 6 rebounds, and Grant averaged 12 pts and 9 rebounds.

Cartwright had similar numbers as well. Which is still better than what Lebron had. Those numbers also hide how good Grant and Pippen were - and were becoming. I don't think anyone seriously thinks that roster was weaker than the Cavs that Lebron had.

[Da_Realist]

Cartwright had similar numbers as well. Which is still better than what Lebron had. Those numbers also hide how good Grant and Pippen were - and were becoming. I don't think anyone seriously thinks that roster was weaker than the Cavs that Lebron had.

Relative to the late 80's Eastern Conference, maybe. They were probably the 3rd best team that year with MJ in god mode. It just so happens that the very best team that year played in their own division and whom they had to play 6 times in the regular season. Very different times. The Central Division was the toughest division in the league back then. The Bulls, Pistons, Cavs, Hawks, Bucks all had to play each other 6 times in the regular season.

MJ carried that team. He gave an all-time performance to beat a very good Cavs team in the first round (averaging 40 pts, 6 rebs, 8 asts, 3 stls, shot 52% from the field and hit the series ending shot on the road in Game 5). Then he followed that up by averaging 36 pts, 10 rebs, 8 asts, 3 stls, 1 blk and 55% in upsetting the Knicks in the next round. The Bulls took two games from the eventual champs and maybe could have done more had Pippen not been hurt early in Game 6.

[DatAsh]

Cartwright had similar numbers as well. Which is still better than what Lebron had. Those numbers also hide how good Grant and Pippen were - and were becoming. I don't think anyone seriously thinks that roster was weaker than the Cavs that Lebron had.

Lebron also didn't have to face anywhere near the talent though. Relative to the competition, Lebron's team was probably better off. 2007 Lebron wasn't as good of a player as 1989 Jordan though.

[madmax17]

I was thinking about this today while I was watching 07 cavs vs pistons. I start saying im the biggest michael jordan homer of all time and I particulary dont like LeBron pretty much but... who in the history of the game could carry such horrible teams to 50+ wins every season and competing in the playoffs against anyone (even reaching a NBA finals)? Seriously. Even if Lebron never wins a ring in his life, that feat is extremely impressive.
http://www.gifsoup.com/view/300063/kelsey-dunk-fail-o.gif

Aaand it's gonna be the first slam dunk in wo.... never mind.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Could MJ do what LeBron did?

Be outscored by an opposition bench player in his second NBA Finals?

No, I don't think MJ could be outscored by Danny Ainge in a NBA Finals.

Excellent topic.

[coin24]

Could MJ do what LeBron did?

Be outscored by an opposition bench player in his second NBA Finals?

No, I don't think MJ could be outscored by Danny Ainge in a NBA Finals.

Excellent topic.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Segatti]

Could MJ do what LeBron did?

Be outscored by an opposition bench player in his second NBA Finals?

No, I don't think MJ could be outscored by Danny Ainge in a NBA Finals.

Excellent topic.
:lol :applause:

[The Iron Fist]

It was an all-time effort from Jordan...but you guys do realise that he had Pippen and Grant at the time. Lebron didn't have a player of that caliber, let alone two.
Post the records for the opponents each faced in the playoffs.

[Money 23]

Could MJ do what LeBron did?

Be outscored by an opposition bench player in his second NBA Finals?

No, I don't think MJ could be outscored by Danny Ainge in a NBA Finals.

Excellent topic.
LOL ...

A better comparison would be a 6th man of the year type, like Vinnie Johnson

But the essence of your post still makes complete sense.

:oldlol:

[gilalizard]

No.

Not even MJ got favored by the refs as much as LeBron.

[LongLiveTheKing]

No.

Not even MJ got favored by the refs as much as LeBron.

All you do is complain about the refs. Is that all you comment about?

[coin24]

All you do is complain about the refs. Is that all you comment about?


Cool username:roll: :roll: :roll:

Miami lebrons fan??

[LongLiveTheKing]

Cool username:roll: :roll: :roll:

Miami lebrons fan??
I'm guessing your a Kobe stan? And I am a Heat fan.

[coin24]

I'm guessing your a Kobe stan? And I am a Heat fan.

Lakers fan first;)

[Bandito]

I'm guessing your a Kobe stan? And I am a Heat fan.
I am a heat fan but my username is Longlivetheking...I wonder who uses that as an alias.:lol :lol

[MiamiThrice]

No he couldn't.

There isn't anyone in the NBA that could have those Cavs as Finalist favorites each and every year going into the playoffs except for LeBron. LeBron is a better "Team Carrier" than any other player in NBA History because of how diverse and versatile he is. He can pass as good as any point guard, he can rebound as well as any power forward, and he also is a 30 PPG scorer that shoots around 50% from the field while getting to the line like a freight train. Oh and this guy also anchored a defense. Honestly, who else on that team was a good defender? Varejao? Uhhhh?? Yeah Cleveland was a top 5 defense with LeBron, and the very next year they went 2nd to last in the NBA.

That said I'd take Jordan when I have a good supporting cast of all-star players that can also do things with the ball because Jordan is a much better off the ball player than LeBron is. When LeBron doesn't have the ball a lot of the times he has a tendency to go invisible which is exactly what happened in the NBA Finals 2011. He improved his off-ball play in 2012 though and we saw much more instances of him and Wade playing off one another dominating simultaneously.

Noone in the history of the NBA could do more with less than LeBron. His game is just too well suited to carrying scrubs and it's a testament to the greatness that LeBron James is.

[LakersReign]

No he couldn't.

There isn't anyone in the NBA that could have those Cavs as Finalist favorites each and every year going into the playoffs except for LeBron. LeBron is a better "Team Carrier" than any other player in NBA History because of how diverse and versatile he is. He can pass as good as any point guard, he can rebound as well as any power forward, and he also is a 30 PPG scorer that shoots around 50% from the field while getting to the line like a freight train. Oh and this guy also anchored a defense. Honestly, who else on that team was a good defender? Varejao? Uhhhh?? Yeah Cleveland was a top 5 defense with LeBron, and the very next year they went 2nd to last in the NBA.

That said I'd take Jordan when I have a good supporting cast of all-star players that can also do things with the ball because Jordan is a much better off the ball player than LeBron is. When LeBron doesn't have the ball a lot of the times he has a tendency to go invisible which is exactly what happened in the NBA Finals 2011. He improved his off-ball play in 2012 though and we saw much more instances of him and Wade playing off one another dominating simultaneously.

Noone in the history of the NBA could do more with less than LeBron. His game is just too well suited to carrying scrubs and it's a testament to the greatness that LeBron James is.
http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan beat the '89 Cavs and Knicks with no better team around him than what Lebron had, and then handed Detroit their only two losses of the 1989 postseason. he did this while averaging 35/7/8/3/1. Anyone think that any team Lebron beat in the EC to make it to the Finals was better than any of those teams? Didn't think so.

[coin24]

Jordan beat the '89 Cavs and Knicks with no better team around him than what Lebron had, and then handed Detroit their only two losses of the 1989 postseason. he did this while averaging 35/7/8/3/1. Anyone think that any team Lebron beat in the EC to make it to the Finals was better than any of those teams? Didn't think so.

:applause: :applause:

[ripthekik]

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif
:roll: :applause:
these lebrontards are hilarious

[LakersReign]

:roll: :applause:
these lebrontards are hilarious

"miami thrice" is really 32dayz/bwink23, with yet another sock puppet account. The ret**d actually thinks people take his basketball opinions seriously after the NUMEROUS idiotic nonsense he's posted on here. Like admitting to being on a porn site, while thinking about Kobe. Idiot of the worst kind:facepalm

[RRR3]

"miami thrice" is really 32dayz/bwink23, with yet another sock puppet account. The ret**d actually thinks people take his basketball opinions seriously after the NUMEROUS idiotic nonsense he's posted on here. Like admitting to being on a porn site, while thinking about Kobe. Idiot of the worst kind:facepalm
I don't usually agree with you but miamithrice IS a douchebag moron

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No he couldn't.

There isn't anyone in the NBA that could have those Cavs as Finalist favorites each and every year going into the playoffs except for LeBron. LeBron is a better "Team Carrier" than any other player in NBA History because of how diverse and versatile he is. He can pass as good as any point guard, he can rebound as well as any power forward, and he also is a 30 PPG scorer that shoots around 50% from the field while getting to the line like a freight train. Oh and this guy also anchored a defense. Honestly, who else on that team was a good defender? Varejao? Uhhhh?? Yeah Cleveland was a top 5 defense with LeBron, and the very next year they went 2nd to last in the NBA.

That said I'd take Jordan when I have a good supporting cast of all-star players that can also do things with the ball because Jordan is a much better off the ball player than LeBron is. When LeBron doesn't have the ball a lot of the times he has a tendency to go invisible which is exactly what happened in the NBA Finals 2011. He improved his off-ball play in 2012 though and we saw much more instances of him and Wade playing off one another dominating simultaneously.

Noone in the history of the NBA could do more with less than LeBron. His game is just too well suited to carrying scrubs and it's a testament to the greatness that LeBron James is.

:roll:

[KG215]

No he couldn't.

There isn't anyone in the NBA that could have those Cavs as Finalist favorites each and every year going into the playoffs except for LeBron. LeBron is a better "Team Carrier" than any other player in NBA History because of how diverse and versatile he is. He can pass as good as any point guard, he can rebound as well as any power forward, and he also is a 30 PPG scorer that shoots around 50% from the field while getting to the line like a freight train. Oh and this guy also anchored a defense. Honestly, who else on that team was a good defender? Varejao? Uhhhh?? Yeah Cleveland was a top 5 defense with LeBron, and the very next year they went 2nd to last in the NBA.

That said I'd take Jordan when I have a good supporting cast of all-star players that can also do things with the ball because Jordan is a much better off the ball player than LeBron is. When LeBron doesn't have the ball a lot of the times he has a tendency to go invisible which is exactly what happened in the NBA Finals 2011. He improved his off-ball play in 2012 though and we saw much more instances of him and Wade playing off one another dominating simultaneously.

Noone in the history of the NBA could do more with less than LeBron. His game is just too well suited to carrying scrubs and it's a testament to the greatness that LeBron James is.

Not a single player in the history of the NBA could have those Cavs teams competing at the same level they were with LeBron? No one? I really hope you don't honestly believe that.

[KG215]

"miami thrice" is really 32dayz/bwink23, with yet another sock puppet account. The ret**d actually thinks people take his basketball opinions seriously after the NUMEROUS idiotic nonsense he's posted on here. Like admitting to being on a porn site, while thinking about Kobe. Idiot of the worst kind:facepalm

Well then, the two of you have something in common.

[Mr Exlax]

Not a single player in the history of the NBA could have those Cavs teams competing at the same level they were with LeBron? No one? I really hope you don't honestly believe that.

The only person that I think could've had that team competing was maybe prime Shaq. That's not to say that I'm correct, that's just my opinion. Again, I've never seen another player have to lead his team in so many different things just to make their team a threat. Jordan demanded a trade, Kobe demanded a trade and Lebron elevated the players around him. Not a knock on the greatness of any of the guys, just my own observation.

[guy]

The 02, 03, and 07 Eastern Conference were easily by far the worst its ever been in the past 30 years or so.

[LeBird]

Lebron also didn't have to face anywhere near the talent though. Relative to the competition, Lebron's team was probably better off. 2007 Lebron wasn't as good of a player as 1989 Jordan though.

True. Still wouldn't say that Lebron's team was better off. Some arguing for Jordan have made good cases but I think the Bulls team was stronger in the sense that while without Jordan they'd never get to where they were; I don't think they'd be jokes either. Cavs were basically the worst team in the league without Lebron.

[Mr Exlax]

Cavs were basically the worst team in the league without Lebron.

This is why I said Lebron should've gotten MVP that year D.Rose got it. We got to see just how bad that Cavs team was lol. Yeah they lost maybe 1 or 2 other pieces, but really those didn't matter. He should get the MVP every year from now on just because of that lol.

[lilgodfather1]

This is why I said Lebron should've gotten MVP that year D.Rose got it. We got to see just how bad that Cavs team was lol. Yeah they lost maybe 1 or 2 other pieces, but really those didn't matter. He should get the MVP every year from now on just because of that lol.
LeBron didn't get the MVP because he "had too much help". Rose was literally the only option for the MVP in 2011. Dwight's team wasn't good enough, LeBron had too much help, Kobe's team wasn't good enough, etc. All the great players had down years, and DRose won the MVP because of it. The Cavs may have been putrid without LeBron, but LeBron had just left in an unprecidented way, and formed an unprecidented team.

MVP is as much about the best story, as it is about the best player, and Rose was the best story. If they had given the MVP to LeBron than it would have been crazy backlash.

[Mr Exlax]

LeBron didn't get the MVP because he "had too much help". Rose was literally the only option for the MVP in 2011. Dwight's team wasn't good enough, LeBron had too much help, Kobe's team wasn't good enough, etc. All the great players had down years, and DRose won the MVP because of it. The Cavs may have been putrid without LeBron, but LeBron had just left in an unprecidented way, and formed an unprecidented team.

MVP is as much about the best story, as it is about the best player, and Rose was the best story. If they had given the MVP to LeBron than it would have been crazy backlash.

No you misunderstood what I'm saying. It was to be funny. I was saying that the Cavs were so bad w/o Lebron that he should've gotten it just because of that.

You know on the MVP award, I've been saying that they NBA needs to come up with some kind of criteria. That season that D.Rose won, he wasn't leading the league in anything. He wasn't even the best at his position. I'm still pissed that Dwight didn't get it that season.

[guy]

No you misunderstood what I'm saying. It was to be funny. I was saying that the Cavs were so bad w/o Lebron that he should've gotten it just because of that.

You know on the MVP award, I've been saying that they NBA needs to come up with some kind of criteria. That season that D.Rose won, he wasn't leading the league in anything. He wasn't even the best at his position. I'm still pissed that Dwight didn't get it that season.

Rose was clearly the best PG in the league in the 2011 regular season. There was no one that really came close.

[guy]

LeBron didn't get the MVP because he "had too much help". Rose was literally the only option for the MVP in 2011. Dwight's team wasn't good enough, LeBron had too much help, Kobe's team wasn't good enough, etc. All the great players had down years, and DRose won the MVP because of it. The Cavs may have been putrid without LeBron, but LeBron had just left in an unprecidented way, and formed an unprecidented team.

MVP is as much about the best story, as it is about the best player, and Rose was the best story. If they had given the MVP to LeBron than it would have been crazy backlash.

Lebron had the same help this year and he won. The Heat underachieved in the 2011 regular season, were horrible in the clutch Lebron especially, and had some embarrassing comebacks against them. That was the biggest reason IMO that Lebron didn't win.

And Kobe's team was good enough. He just wasn't that good.

[Young X]

Rose was clearly the best PG in the league in the 2011 regular season. There was no one that really came close.
CP3>Rose in 2011.

[guy]

CP3>Rose in 2011.

No he wasn't. He was still somewhat recovering from his previous injury and he was also unmotivated with 1 foot out the door already. He didn't do much in that regular season. There's a reason why his numbers and play got much better in the 2011 playoffs and then once he got the Clippers. He played inspiring basketball once he was motivated.

[Da_Realist]

Again, I've never seen another player have to lead his team in so many different things just to make their team a threat.

From Young X: People don't understand what MJ did in the late 80's, in 1989 he was 0.6 rebounds away from leading his team in every category, he lead a 47 win Bulls team past two 52+ win teams without homecourt, while averaging 38/8/8/2.7 stls on 53%. In the ECF the Bulls were the only team to beat the Pistons in the playoffs, and took them to six games despite winning 16 less games than them. Unless you think the '07 Pistons were better than the '89 Pistons, this shouldn't be a debate.

From me: ...while averaging 18 points more than the 2nd leading scorer on the team. His averages were

32.5 pts (1st)
8.0 rebs (2nd)
8.0 asts (1st)
2.9 stls (1st)
0.8 blks (1st)
and shot 54% from the field. The only person who shot better on the team was Ed Nealy, who only averaged 0.8 ppg.

The ironic thing is...casual fans would gain much more respect for what he did had he gained 1 more rebound and lost, say 10 points. Then we could say, "MJ led the team in every single category" even though he would have CLEARLY been less productive.

It's like how a triple double has become the benchmark for well-roundedness but a 38, 8 and 9 statline is just another game.


From me: MJ carried that team. He gave an all-time performance to beat a very good Cavs team in the first round (averaging 40 pts, 6 rebs, 8 asts, 3 stls, shot 52% from the field and hit the series ending shot on the road in Game 5). Then he followed that up by averaging 36 pts, 10 rebs, 8 asts, 3 stls, 1 blk and 55% in upsetting the Knicks in the next round. The Bulls took two games from the eventual champs and maybe could have done more had Pippen not been hurt early in Game 6.


Jordan demanded a trade.

When?

[Da_Realist]

Had the Pistons been in the Western Conference in 1989, the Bulls would have gone to the Finals that year. I don't think any other team would have beaten Chicago except Detroit and LA.

[Young X]

No he wasn't. He was still somewhat recovering from his previous injury and he was also unmotivated with 1 foot out the door already. He didn't do much in that regular season. There's a reason why his numbers and play got much better in the 2011 playoffs and then once he got the Clippers. He played inspiring basketball once he was motivated.
Rose had a better regular season, but that doesn't mean that he was a better player. Paul, ability wise was still better than Rose in almost every category other than ppg and that's only because he took 8 less shots than Rose, the Lakers series proved that he still had the abilty to score more when his team needed it.

[Mr Exlax]

From Young X: People don't understand what MJ did in the late 80's, in 1989 he was 0.6 rebounds away from leading his team in every category, he lead a 47 win Bulls team past two 52+ win teams without homecourt, while averaging 38/8/8/2.7 stls on 53%. In the ECF the Bulls were the only team to beat the Pistons in the playoffs, and took them to six games despite winning 16 less games than them. Unless you think the '07 Pistons were better than the '89 Pistons, this shouldn't be a debate.

From me: ...while averaging 18 points more than the 2nd leading scorer on the team. His averages were

32.5 pts (1st)
8.0 rebs (2nd)
8.0 asts (1st)
2.9 stls (1st)
0.8 blks (1st)
and shot 54% from the field. The only person who shot better on the team was Ed Nealy, who only averaged 0.8 ppg.

The ironic thing is...casual fans would gain much more respect for what he did had he gained 1 more rebound and lost, say 10 points. Then we could say, "MJ led the team in every single category" even though he would have CLEARLY been less productive.

It's like how a triple double has become the benchmark for well-roundedness but a 38, 8 and 9 statline is just another game.


From me: MJ carried that team. He gave an all-time performance to beat a very good Cavs team in the first round (averaging 40 pts, 6 rebs, 8 asts, 3 stls, shot 52% from the field and hit the series ending shot on the road in Game 5). Then he followed that up by averaging 36 pts, 10 rebs, 8 asts, 3 stls, 1 blk and 55% in upsetting the Knicks in the next round. The Bulls took two games from the eventual champs and maybe could have done more had Pippen not been hurt early in Game 6.



When?

All that's cool, but you didn't understand what I typed. I said that I haven't seen another player do it. I didn't say that MJ couldn't do it or didn't do it. I personally haven't seen it. Can you post some stuff like that from when Lebron was in Clevland? How many more points did he score than the next person? Oh and when Scottie got there, didn't he become the defensive anchor pretty much? Like he was the one that had to defend the threats on the other end right?

If memory serves me correct, Jordan complained and kinds sorta demanded a trade from the Bulls like Kobe did to the Lakers. More like a threat. That's how/why they got him Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen right? He demanded some help and the threat of demanding a trade got shit moving.

I also think it's a bad thing when 1 person leads their team in that many things. I guess it looks cool, but I can't see how someone would win like that. Cut the head off and the body will fall kinda thing.

[LakersReign]

Well then, the two of you have something in common.

says this ret**d(kg215) who just embarrassed himself, like "miami thrice" since he CAN'T AND WON'T back that up with an actual link. So yeah, you(kg215) would know all about being a ret**d(kg215) and having something in common with him....wouldn't you? Good job, good effort:applause:

[guy]

Rose had a better regular season, but that doesn't mean that he was a better player. Paul, ability wise was still better than Rose in almost every category other than ppg and that's only because he took 8 less shots, the Lakers series proved that he still had the abilty to score more when his team needed it.

This is not about ability, but performance. Rose played as clearly the best PG in the league that year.

[Young X]

All that's cool, but you didn't understand what I typed. I said that I haven't seen another player do it. I didn't say that MJ couldn't do it or didn't do it. I personally haven't seen it. Can you post some stuff like that from when Lebron was in Clevland? How many more points did he score than the next person? Oh and when Scottie got there, didn't he become the defensive anchor pretty much? Like he was the one that had to defend the threats on the other end right?

If memory serves me correct, Jordan complained and kinds sorta demanded a trade from the Bulls like Kobe did to the Lakers. More like a threat. That's how/why they got him Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen right? He demanded some help and the threat of demanding a trade got shit moving.
How do you remember if Jordan demanded a trade, if you didn't see him play?

[guy]

All that's cool, but you didn't understand what I typed. I said that I haven't seen another player do it. I didn't say that MJ couldn't do it or didn't do it. I personally haven't seen it. Can you post some stuff like that from when Lebron was in Clevland? How many more points did he score than the next person? Oh and when Scottie got there, didn't he become the defensive anchor pretty much? Like he was the one that had to defend the threats on the other end right?

If memory serves me correct, Jordan complained and kinds sorta demanded a trade from the Bulls like Kobe did to the Lakers. More like a threat. That's how/why they got him Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen right? He demanded some help and the threat of demanding a trade got shit moving.

No thats not what happened at all. Jordan complained, but he never publicly demanded a trade the way Kobe did. And getting Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen wasn't some altering move in the beginning. They were unproven prospects that the Bulls drafted. It took a year or two for those draft picks to be very impactful.

[RRR3]

says this ret**d(kg215) who just embarrassed himself, like "miami thrice" since he CAN'T AND WON'T back that up with an actual link. So yeah, you(kg215) would know all about being a ret**d(kg215) and having something in common with him....wouldn't you? Good job, good effort:applause:
reigny mode

[Mr Exlax]

How do you remember if Jordan demanded a trade, if you didn't see him play?

I was a big fan of Scottie Pippen so Jordan's stats didn't register to me. I can't remember exactly where I heard that he threatned to demand a trade. I know it wasn't anything printed. Just word of mouth. Could've been pure speculation at that. I think I saw it on TV when I was real young. Either way it makes sense though because I still can't grasp how they ended up with 2 players drafted in the top 10 that season. Probably because I didn't care enough to do any research lol.

[LakersReign]

"Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....I thought my name was supposedly "rob fleming/flemming, and I was supposedly suffering from PTSD from supposedly being captured and raped by Muslim terrorists in Iraq?" What happened to all that? Something else they CAN'T AND WON'T prove. Coincidence, or recurring pattern?:roll:

[Mr Exlax]

No thats not what happened at all. Jordan complained, but he never publicly demanded a trade the way Kobe did. And getting Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen wasn't some altering move in the beginning. They were unproven prospects that the Bulls drafted. It took a year or two for those draft picks to be very impactful.

The media coverage wasn't the same back then. It was public because I heard about it lol. I live in Houston. Oh and 2 years for players to pan out is pretty damn good I think. Get me 2 top 10 picks in the same draft I'm going to think they're trying to get me some help. Don't take this as me hating on MJ. I don't think he was wrong for wanting/needing some help. It's a team sport.

[RRR3]

"Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....I thought my name was supposedly "rob fleming/flemming"? Something else they CAN'T AND WON'T prove:roll:
boring :sleeping

[Young X]

This is not about ability, but performance. Rose played as clearly the best PG in the league that year.
That's arguable, Paul had a big advantage over Rose in assists, while turning the ball over less, led the league in steals, and his playoff series was clearly better than any of Rose's series that year.

[Mach_3]

Well you can clearly see the age of every poster here just going by each post :roll:

[RRR3]

Well you can clearly see the age of every poster here just going by each post :roll:
Yep. Reigny=8 years old

[LakersReign]

AND....RIGHT ON CUE....the little ret**ded child(rrr3) repeats like a pathetic parrot(rrr3). Which is simply more proof that he(rrr3) truly is my(LR) b****h(rrr3):lol

*Repeat*


OAN: WOW....never knew the U.S. military took 8 year olds and sent them to Iraq to be "captured and raped by Muslim terrorists.":wtf:

How come you're(rrr3) the only person on the planet who's aware that this is going on?:confusedshrug:

Pure dumba**(rrr3):hammerhead:

[guy]

The media coverage wasn't the same back then. It was public because I heard about it lol. I live in Houston. Oh and 2 years for players to pan out is pretty damn good I think. Get me 2 top 10 picks in the same draft I'm going to think they're trying to get me some help. Don't take this as me hating on MJ. I don't think he was wrong for wanting/needing some help. It's a team sport.

There's stuff like from the Jordan Rules book quoting Jordan saying things along the lines of "get me out of here" but nothing as serious as Kobe's trade demand or even Magic's trade demand earlier in his career. My point about Pippen and Grant not being altering in the beginning is that they weren't some highly regarded prospects that were going to make a star player feel like there team was much better. Grant and Pippen both only averaged about 20 mpg there first season.

[guy]

That's arguable, Paul had a big advantage over Rose in assists, while turning the ball over less, led the league in steals, and his playoff series was clearly better than any of Rose's series that year.

While Rose had a 9 ppg advantage. If you want to bring up stats, that huge advantage outweighs any of CP3's. And one playoff series doesn't outweigh the whole regular season and Rose playing in 2 other playoff series, especially when Rose still had a great 2nd round.

[Mr Exlax]

There's stuff like from the Jordan Rules book quoting Jordan saying things along the lines of "get me out of here" but nothing as serious as Kobe's trade demand or even Magic's trade demand earlier in his career. My point about Pippen and Grant not being altering in the beginning is that they weren't some highly regarded prospects that were going to make a star player feel like there team was much better. Grant and Pippen both only averaged about 20 mpg there first season.

That's pretty much along the same lines IMO. Like neither one of the guys really wanted to be traded, they just have to say it to get shit rolling. 20 minutes, but they didn't suck you know. They were still better than any other teammates he had before other than Charles Oakley. Again, they got him not 1 but 2 top 10 picks. If they didn't pan out just 2 years you would have to agree that they at least were trying to get him some help. 2 top 10 picks? That's crazy to me. Crazy good thought that they were able to do it.

[Da_Realist]

All that's cool, but you didn't understand what I typed. I said that I haven't seen another player do it. I didn't say that MJ couldn't do it or didn't do it. I personally haven't seen it.

I figured this.


Can you post some stuff like that from when Lebron was in Clevland? How many more points did he score than the next person?

2007 Lebron

27.3 pts (1st) 12 more points than the next guy.
6.7 rebs (3rd)
6.0 asts (1st)
1.6 stls (1st)
1.3 blks (2nd)

Shot 48% (2nd)


Oh and when Scottie got there, didn't he become the defensive anchor pretty much? Like he was the one that had to defend the threats on the other end right?

No.


If memory serves me correct, Jordan complained and kinds sorta demanded a trade from the Bulls like Kobe did to the Lakers.

No.


More like a threat. That's how/why they got him Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen right? He demanded some help and the threat of demanding a trade got shit moving.

He put pressure on the front office, but never threatened to leave.


I also think it's a bad thing when 1 person leads their team in that many things. I guess it looks cool, but I can't see how someone would win like that. Cut the head off and the body will fall kinda thing.

But you said... I've never seen another player have to lead his team in so many different things just to make their team a threat. :wtf:

So when Lebron did it, it showed greatness but when Jordan did it, it didn't???

[Mr Exlax]

I figured this.



2007 Lebron

27.3 pts (1st)
6.7 rebs (3rd)
6.0 asts (1st)
1.6 stls (1st)
1.3 blks (2nd)

Shot 48% (2nd)



No.



No



He put pressure on the front office, but never threatened to leave.



But you said... I've never seen another player have to lead his team in so many different things just to make their team a threat. :wtf:

So when Lebron did it, it showed greatness but when Jordan did it, it didn't???

Damn bro you gotta go back and read my other posts. Everything you just replied to is your own opinion. Good for you. As far as the threats/put pressure on front office it's all the same thing to me. Not that it's a bad thing at all. It's a team sport. Everybody wants a good team. When I said that I never saw Jordan do it, it's not to say he didn't or couldn't. I was too young to be concerned about stats. Then when Scottie got there Scottie was my favorite player so Jordan's stats were none of my concern. Just go back and read some of the stuff that me and Guy were talking about.

Oh and can you check the PPG gap between him and the next highest that season? And man don't put little faces in responses to me. We're having a discussion. If I said I didn't see it, then I didn't see it. Ya dig?

[Da_Realist]

Damn bro you gotta go back and read my other posts. Everything you just replied to is your own opinion. Good for you. As far as the threats/put pressure on front office it's all the same thing to me. Not that it's a bad thing at all. It's a team sport. Everybody wants a good team. When I said that I never saw Jordan do it, it's not to say he didn't or couldn't. I was too young to be concerned about stats. Then when Scottie got there Scottie was my favorite player so Jordan's stats were none of my concern. Just go back and read some of the stuff that me and Guy were talking about.

I don't see how you saw Scottie when he got there but didn't see Jordan pretty much lead the team in everything and drag that team to the ECF every year until the team matured into a championship contender. Kinda hard to miss a guy being that good even if Pippen is your favorite player. But, ok...

You must have watched with the sound turned off and somehow focused on Pippen even when he was out of the camera angle.

[guy]

That's pretty much along the same lines IMO. Like neither one of the guys really wanted to be traded, they just have to say it to get shit rolling. 20 minutes, but they didn't suck you know. They were still better than any other teammates he had before other than Charles Oakley. Again, they got him not 1 but 2 top 10 picks. If they didn't pan out just 2 years you would have to agree that they at least were trying to get him some help. 2 top 10 picks? That's crazy to me. Crazy good thought that they were able to do it.

No they weren't along the same lines. Kobe's trade demand was very public and to the point that Kobe was actually listing teams to the Lakers and the Lakers were actually listening to offers. Jordan and the Bulls never got anywhere near to that point. Its not even close to the same situation.

My initial point about the Bulls getting Grant/Pippen is that Jordan's frustration with management wasn't lessened right after they got those two because they weren't impact players right away. It wasn't like how Kobe became less frustrated in the beginning of 08 once Bynum showed he can be a double-double guy or when Gasol came there and became an impact player right away.

[Mr Exlax]

I don't see how you saw Scottie when he got there but didn't see Jordan pretty much lead the team in everything and drag that team to the ECF every year until the team matured into a championship contender. Kinda hard to miss a guy being that good even if Pippen is your favorite player. But, ok...

You must have watched with the sound turned off and somehow focused on Pippen even when he was out of the camera angle.

No ****face I was like 6 years old! I didn't have that love for basketball or even the understanding. I just knew I liked Scottie because he was always in the middle of everything.

[Young X]

Lebron averaged 25 pts on 42% (on 20 shots), 8 rebounds and 8 assists in the '07 playoffs, if you think MJ's worse than that, your'e cray.

[Mr Exlax]

No they weren't along the same lines. Kobe's trade demand was very public and to the point that Kobe was actually listing teams to the Lakers and the Lakers were actually listening to offers. Jordan and the Bulls never got anywhere near to that point. Its not even close to the same situation.

My initial point about the Bulls getting Grant/Pippen is that Jordan's frustration with management wasn't lessened right after they got those two because they weren't impact players right away. It wasn't like how Kobe became less frustrated in the beginning of 08 once Bynum showed he can be a double-double guy or when Gasol came there and became an impact player right away.

I just chalk it all to putting pressure on the front office. Again, it's not a bad thing to do. That's how you win a team game is by getting a good team.
They weren't impactful right then and there, but in 2 years they won a championship. He obviously saw the talent that both the guys possesd. They were two top 10 picks so somebody knew about them or saw something in them. That's enough to show your star player that's frustrated that you're tyring to get him some talent. 2 top picks. I need to go back and figure out how they pulled it off. I can't remember their record the season before that draft.

[Da_Realist]

No ****face I was like 6 years old! I didn't have that love for basketball or even the understanding. I just knew I liked Scottie because he was always in the middle of everything.

You got a hell of a memory to have been 6 years old.

[juju151111]

No ****face I was like 6 years old! I didn't have that love for basketball or even the understanding. I just knew I liked Scottie because he was always in the middle of everything.
So basically you admit having no clue then :facepalm Where does this Scottie guarded best players come from.

[Mr Exlax]

focused on Pippen even when he was out of the camera angle.

I've done this for the last couple of seasons when Orland plays. If anybody other than Dwight has the ball I'm not paying attention lol. I'm a Dwight homer now.

[guy]

I just chalk it all to putting pressure on the front office. Again, it's not a bad thing to do. That's how you win a team game is by getting a good team.
They weren't impactful right then and there, but in 2 years they won a championship. He obviously saw the talent that both the guys possesd. They were two top 10 picks so somebody knew about them or saw something in them. That's enough to show your star player that's frustrated that you're tyring to get him some talent. 2 top picks. I need to go back and figure out how they pulled it off. I can't remember their record the season before that draft.

They got the other pick through a series of trades.

My point was it didn't show Jordan enough at that specific time. Later on obviously it worked out, but it wasn't the same thing as a GM getting some star player or highly touted rookie. Both Grant and Pippen were relative unknowns. In fact, Pippen didn't even come from a Division I school, so it was an amazing pickup but still thought of as a risk.

[Mr Exlax]

They got the other pick through a series of trades.

My point was it didn't show Jordan enough at that specific time. Later on obviously it worked out, but it wasn't the same thing as a GM getting some star player or highly touted rookie. Both Grant and Pippen were relative unknowns. In fact, Pippen didn't even come from a Division I school, so it was an amazing pickup but still thought of as a risk.

But that's two picks in the top 10 man. That's enough to show any player that they're trying I think.

[Mr Exlax]

You got a hell of a memory to have been 6 years old.

Ok 8 years old. Even then, still hazy though because I thought Pippen was the best player. I remember it, but I didn't fully understand the game obviously.

[Mr Exlax]

So basically you admit having no clue then :facepalm Where does this Scottie guarded best players come from.

At 8 years old bro yeah I didn't have a clue. Anyway, it was a question not a statement. Do you know how to read?

[guy]

But that's two picks in the top 10 man. That's enough to show any player that they're trying I think.

Never heard of star players ever caring about draft picks unless it was a very hyped up prospect.

[Mr Exlax]

Never heard of star players ever caring about draft picks unless it was a very hyped up prospect.

They never get the luxury of getting high draft picks most of the time I would think. I would think management would talk it over with the key player as well. I would hope so anyway. But really though man. If I'm demanding some help and they get me 2 of the top 10 players picked in the draft i'm gonna be happy right then and there. It shows that they're trying. Not late round picks. Top 10 picks. Were there any flare ups from Jordan after they got there?

[guy]

They never get the luxury of getting high draft picks most of the time I would think. I would think management would talk it over with the key player as well. I would hope so anyway. But really though man. If I'm demanding some help and they get me 2 of the top 10 players picked in the draft i'm gonna be happy right then and there. It shows that they're trying. Not late round picks. Top 10 picks. Were there any flare ups from Jordan after they got there?

Yes there were flare ups actually because they weren't that good right away. The draft is really not that dependable and the fact remains that they were relative unknowns. Whether they were top 10 or not is kind of irrelevant cause no one knew who they were and there wasn't much hype behind thme.

[Mr Exlax]

Yes there were flare ups actually because they weren't that good right away. The draft is really not that dependable and the fact remains that they were relative unknowns. Whether they were top 10 or not is kind of irrelevant cause no one knew who they were and there wasn't much hype behind thme.

Top 10 means a lot bro. Somebody had to have scouted them. There have been more good players than bad players drafted in the top 10.

[Mr Exlax]

I figured this.



2007 Lebron

27.3 pts (1st) 12 more points than the next guy.
6.7 rebs (3rd)
6.0 asts (1st)
1.6 stls (1st)
1.3 blks (2nd)

Shot 48% (2nd)



No.



No.



He put pressure on the front office, but never threatened to leave.



But you said... I've never seen another player have to lead his team in so many different things just to make their team a threat. :wtf:

So when Lebron did it, it showed greatness but when Jordan did it, it didn't???


Hey one more thing. Do you know what Jordan's rank was on the team for these same stats the year they won the first championship?

[guy]

Top 10 means a lot bro. Somebody had to have scouted them. There have been more good players than bad players drafted in the top 10.

Right. Star players aren't doing that scouting though. Getting 2 top draft picks on your team isn't anywhere near getting a proven all-star PF like Gasol on your team.

[Mr Exlax]

Right. Star players aren't doing that scouting though. Getting 2 top draft picks on your team isn't anywhere near getting an all-star PF like Gasol on your team.

Yeah that's an immediate impact, but two top 10 in a draft ain't too bad either. Even though they weren't hyped or anything, SOMEBODY scouted them to draft them that high. Not 100% sure they're gonna be good, but they won a ring after just 2 years of playing together. That's good stuff to me. Good enough to stop a star player from bolting out the door too.

[guy]

Yeah that's an immediate impact, but two top 10 in a draft ain't too bad either. Even though they weren't hyped or anything, SOMEBODY scouted them to draft them that high. Not 100% sure they're gonna be good, but they won a ring after just 2 years of playing together. That's good stuff to me. Good enough to stop a star player from bolting out the door too.

Well yes, Jordan wasn't really complaining about anything by Pippen and Grant's 3rd year, but before that he was and wasn't really unjustified in doing so.

[Mr Exlax]

Well yes, Jordan wasn't really complaining about anything by Pippen and Grant's 3rd year, but before that he was and wasn't really unjustified in doing so.

So in two years they got that much better or did Jordan finally start trusting his teammates?

[LBJFTW]

Oh absolutely. One of the worst in history. Don't let pauk (Savanna James) tell you different.

There is no way around it, he choked in 2011 in a MAJOR way. And in 2010, totally quit on his team and franchise

And not just in one single game where he was frustrated. He quit on an entire series / season after an amazing game 3 performance, where the Cavs played to their potential.

The Cavs could've beat those Celtics. Or at the very least gave them a series. He straight up quit like a spoiled child.

That's why this year's ring still doesn't make up for the exits of 2010 and 2011 he left on his resume.

In 2010, he refused to even try. When he was at the top of his game, no less.

Anyone who watched that series knows what you say is fact. It's not even debatable that he quit on an entire franchise. How anyone can be a fan of an athelete who quits on his team in 2010, joins the 2nd best player in 2011 and chokes, and then finaly manages to beat a young thunder team in 2012 is laughable.

It's one thing to actually try and then lose, it's another thing to give up and stand around when you should be in an offensive set.

Comparing him to Jordan is laughable. Guy was in the league for 7 years then decides to quit just because a teamate was accused of banging his mom.

Weakest mental player with the most physical gifts in the history of the game hands down.

[guy]

So in two years they got that much better or did Jordan finally start trusting his teammates?

Combination of both, but them getting better also resulted in him trusting them more, and he had alot to do with them getting better.

[Mr Exlax]

Anyone who watched that series knows what you say is fact. It's not even debatable that he quit on an entire franchise. How anyone can be a fan of an athelete who quits on his team in 2010, joins the 2nd best player in 2011 and chokes, and then finaly manages to beat a young thunder team in 2012 is laughable.

It's one thing to actually try and then lose, it's another thing to give up and stand around when you should be in an offensive set.

Comparing him to Jordan is laughable. Guy was in the league for 7 years then decides to quit just because a teamate was accused of banging his mom.

Weakest mental player with the most physical gifts in the history of the game hands down.


I'll still take that triple double he got when he quit on the team. Still had better numbers than anybody on his team and the other team.

[Mr Exlax]

Combination of both, but them getting better also resulted in him trusting them more, and he had alot to do with them getting better.

Yeah I've heard so many times how much fun it was to be in a practice with Jordan lol.

I guess a lot of the posters on the board are too young to remember or they weren't born yet to include Jordan in the leading a sorry team discussion. I being one of them.

[LBJFTW]

I'll still take that triple double he got when he quit on the team. Still had better numbers than anybody on his team and the other team.

Yes in game 6. But what about game 5 where he shot 3-14, and looked disinterested. Nice try.

[guy]

Yeah I've heard so many times how much fun it was to be in a practice with Jordan lol.

I guess a lot of the posters on the board are too young to remember or they weren't born yet to include Jordan in the leading a sorry team discussion. I being one of them.

Yea. If Pippen and Grant were the players most people remember them as right from the beginning, the Bulls might've won another 2-3 titles in those years.

[guy]

Yes in game 6. But what about game 5 where he shot 3-14, and looked disinterested. Nice try.

He even looked disinterested in that game 6 despite his gaudy numbers, which is a testament to how great he is but also show how stats can be misleading cause I wouldn't call that a great game at all. He also had like 9 turnovers which was just seemed lazy and avoidable.

[Mr Exlax]

That Boston series I think they had him figured out. Limit him and the rest of the team will crumble. Then throw in a coach like Mike Brown who can't really run an offense and it's shutdown city. That's the best way to beat Lebron. One of his best talents is making his teammates better. Limit him from doing just that and then it's 1 vs 5. Coach Thibs with that killer defensive scheme. I wish I respected coaching when i was young.

[Money 23]

One of his best talents is making his teammates better. Limit him from doing just that and then it's 1 vs 5. Coach Thibs with that killer defensive scheme. I wish I respected coaching when i was young.
Agreed. The next series they did just the opposite to Kobe.

Force him to make his teammates better.

If you can be versatile, like say Jordan ... it renders both of these approaches moot.

[Mr Exlax]

Agreed. The next series they did just the opposite to Kobe.

Force him to make his teammates better.

If you can be versatile, like say Jordan ... it renders both of these approaches moot.

The only thing is that Jordan didn't win until he got a better team and a better coach. It's a team sport. No matter how great 1 player is, he can be beat by a better team.

[Money 23]

The only thing is that Jordan didn't win until he got a better team and a better coach. It's a team sport. No matter how great 1 player is, he can be beat by a better team.
Phil Jackson wasn't better than Doug Collins initially. Years down the line he was.

All he needed was Pippen to continue to step up, and be mentally tough like he was.

Once MJ trusted in his teammates enough, it was all over. And yes, obviously it is a team sport. You really schooled me on insight there.