Do y'all realize next year Kobe will be all-time playoff leader in point scored!!

[Umad101]

Passing both Kareem and mj. Give props

[KOBE143]

Breaking another record..

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: All hail Lord Mamba..

[StacksOnDeck]

6th ring also

[BankShot]

Only if they make the playoffs......

Relax dude

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. Michael Jordan - 5,987
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 5,762
3. Kobe Bryant - 5,640

132 playoff points away from #2.
347 playoff points away from #1.

If the Lakers get to the Western Conference Finals and Kobe is healthy and can play, the record will be his.

[Jacks3]

:bowdown:

[red1]

:applause: he will get it fo sho

[G-Funk]

give props mother****3rs!

[G.O.A.T]

Another example of why he is unquestionably a top ten player (Mikan included) all-time.

I don't think he can lead a team to a title anymore, but if there is a team he could, it'd be this year's Lakers cast. I third title as the man, with the rest of his nearing exclusive longevity for a guard resume makes him a serious candidate to crack the top 4-8. Kobe versus Wilt or Kareem would actually be debatable.

[SyRyanYang]

I don't usually ride his ****, but this is one hell of an achivement:applause: :bowdown:

[KG215]

Not sure how to feel about this. The change in number of teams, rounds, and games available in the playoffs has changed pretty drastically. The NBA didn't even extend to a sixteen team playoff format until 1984 and they didn't extend the first round to a best-of-seven until 2003.

Good for Kobe, though.

[BankShot]

Another example of why he is unquestionably a top ten player (Mikan included) all-time.

I don't think he can lead a team to a title anymore, but if there is a team he could, it'd be this year's Lakers cast. I third title as the man, with the rest of his nearing exclusive longevity for a guard resume makes him a serious candidate to crack the top 4-8. Kobe versus Wilt or Kareem would actually be debatable.

I would hope that any quasi-intelligent fan of the game, should be able to see the greatness in Kobe Bryant.... and its sad to say that views on him are way too polarized to have a civil debate about his place in the historical hierarchy of all-time NBA greats.

I'm not sure if its just a sign of the times and that the modern sports fan has pretty much potentially unlimited resources, or that said unlimited resources has allowed immature uniformed fans to enter the debate with those attempting to stay unbiased.... but Kobe Bryant has become so incredibly polarized on the internet that it has become damn-near impossible to have a public conversation about him without it exploding into mayhem.

[G.O.A.T]

Not sure how to feel about this. The change in number of teams, rounds, and games available in the playoffs has changed pretty drastically. The NBA didn't even extend to a sixteen team playoff format until 1984 and they didn't extend the first round to a best-of-seven until 2003.

Good for Kobe, though.

I still think it's significant, but your point needs to be understood by those who would use this very contextual record to elevate Kobe's all-time rank.

[BankShot]

I don't usually ride his ****, but this is one hell of an achivement:applause: :bowdown:

This is a perfect example of my last post.

I'm not trying to single you out here.... but its pretty sad that applauding the achievement of being the NBA's all-time playoff scorer is equated to "d*ck riding" on a message board where I truly believe that there are a lot of members that are just to talk basketball.

Sad indeed. :facepalm

[b1imtf]

What if the Lakers miss the playoffs?

[KG215]

I still think it's significant, but your point needs to be understood by those who would use this very contextual record to elevate Kobe's all-time rank.

Right, this is something that can and should be used to accentuate his resume but shouldn't be held over the heads of prolific playoff scorers who came before the 16 team playoff era. It shows Kobe's incredible consistency and longevity, but people should also take into account the extra number of playoff games he's been afforded, especially over the players from the 50s through the mid-80s.

[G.O.A.T]

I would hope that any quasi-intelligent fan of the game, should be able to see the greatness in Kobe Bryant.... and its sad to say that views on him are way too polarized to have a civil debate about his place in the historical hierarchy of all-time NBA greats.

I'm not sure if its just a sign of the times and that the modern sports fan has pretty much potentially unlimited resources, or that said unlimited resources has allowed immature uniformed fans to enter the debate with those attempting to stay unbiased.... but Kobe Bryant has become so incredibly polarized on the internet that it has become damn-near impossible to have a public conversation about him without it exploding into mayhem.

You can do it, you just have to isolate the conversation to those who can exclude their personal bias.

You are certainly correct in saying that Kobe will perpetually be over or underrated to an extreme degree by the fans/haters, but those perspectives are easily discernible from the free thinking minority.

[G.O.A.T]

Right, this is something that can and should be used to accentuate his resume but shouldn't be held over the heads of prolific playoff scorers who came before the 16 team playoff era. It shows Kobe's incredible consistency and longevity, but people should also take into account the extra number of playoff games he's been afforded, especially over the players from the 50s through the mid-80s.

Imagine Jerry West's totals if he had an extra round or two against lesser competition over his 13 playoff seasons.

[Legends66NBA7]

You are certainly correct in saying that Kobe will perpetually be over or underrated to an extreme degree by the fans/haters, but those perspectives are easily discernible from the free thinking minority.

What type of ranking (Top 10, 15, 20 etc..) do you feel has Kobe too low or underrating ? And vice-versa, overrating ?

[All Net]

What if the Lakers miss the playoffs?

This place would crash and people would die with shock.

[BankShot]

Imagine Jerry West's totals if he had an extra round or two against lesser competition over his 13 playoff seasons.

There's always hypotheticals in assessing the importance of statistical milestones in pro sports because of the change in how they are kept and used as the game evolves.

Just like how blocks weren't recorded as an official stat in the NBA until the mid-1970s (???)

I'm sure Wilt would be up there if they were always recorded.... but there's no need for an asterisk or anything like that in the record books. We just need more intelligent and critically-thinking fans that can actually understand what it means instead of getting their panties in a knot when the numbers don't match what they feel. (not saying you do that)

[Legends66NBA7]

This place would crash and people would die with shock.

Not a chance, unless the key pieces to the team (Kobe, Howard, Gasol, Nash) are out for a long time.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Another example of why he is unquestionably a top ten player (Mikan included) all-time.

I don't think he can lead a team to a title anymore, but if there is a team he could, it'd be this year's Lakers cast. I third title as the man, with the rest of his nearing exclusive longevity for a guard resume makes him a serious candidate to crack the top 4-8. Kobe versus Wilt or Kareem would actually be debatable.

You can't honestly believe Kobe is close to as good offensively AND defensively as those two.

There is a significant gap in impact.

:facepalm

[BankShot]

What type of ranking (Top 10, 15, 20 etc..) do you feel has Kobe too low or underrating ? And vice-versa, overrating ?

There's too much silly ranking in sports these days.... espcially with every fan having a voice via the internet.

Is there really a difference between Kobe being #11 or #9 by some bozo on the internet? What about being Top-15 versus Top-10? What are you driving at here??

The practice of ranking causes way too much unnecessary conflict in the discussion of sports because it forces one to place a concrete quantitative value on dynamic and complex comparisons.

What makes it worse is that those ranking these players are often extremely under-informed, unable to set aside their personal biases, and unwilling to admit to their lack of knowledge of those before their time.

[Legends66NBA7]

Is there really a difference between Kobe being #11 or #9 by some bozo on the internet? What about being Top-15 versus Top-10? What are you driving at here??

The practice of ranking causes way too much unnecessary conflict in the discussion of sports because it forces one to place a concrete quantitative value on dynamic and complex comparisons.

What makes it worse is that those ranking these players are often extremely under-informed, unable to set aside their personal biases, and unwilling to admit to their lack of knowledge of those before their time.

100% agreement with you here.

With the bold, I have asked this question on ISH as well, not particularly on Bryant, but other players involved, with a bit of a difference, I used in an example like this:

Let's say... Hakeem is ranked in the Top 10, at the 10 spot, Moses is ranked in the Top 15, at the 11 spot. Is the gap really THAT big, even if you want to say Hakeem > Moses, all-time ?

My question was too more, if one did have a definitive consensus ranking list, maybe one can see a player being overrated or underrated. I guess, like you mentioned before, a player like Bryant... it's too hard too ask and were often too caught up with lists like these.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

To me this still just shows how far above Kobe Michael Jordan was. Kobe's played a few more seasons than Jordan, had the 7 game first round series to bolster his numbers, and he still hasn't caught Mike.

Wow. Jordan = undisputed GOAT.:pimp:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

1 more game in the first round vs 16-1

:lol

Keep the excuses flowing guys

[KG215]

1 more game in the first round vs 16-1

:lol

Keep the excuses flowing guys

What are you acting so insecure about? One more game in the first round compared to who?

The best-of-seven first round should probably just be thrown out, although it can add up over a 10-15 year career. The ones that are really at a disadvantage in this particular discussion are the players pre-1984 (when the playoffs expanded to 16 teams).

[SyRyanYang]

This is a perfect example of my last post.

I'm not trying to single you out here.... but its pretty sad that applauding the achievement of being the NBA's all-time playoff scorer is equated to "d*ck riding" on a message board where I truly believe that there are a lot of members that are just to talk basketball.

Sad indeed. :facepalm
I'm in fact a huge Kobe fan. But some dumb things Kobe stans say here embarrass me. So I wanna single myself out.

[monkeypox]

Not sure how to feel about this. The change in number of teams, rounds, and games available in the playoffs has changed pretty drastically. The NBA didn't even extend to a sixteen team playoff format until 1984 and they didn't extend the first round to a best-of-seven until 2003.

Good for Kobe, though.

If they didn't extend the first round to 7 games they would have beat the Suns and moved on to the second round. From then they had a pretty decent chance to beat the Clippers to get to the WCF, from there who knows. But there are some extra games to even things out a bit.

[OmniStrife]

Another record for LeBron, and if not, Durant to break...


next.

[kNIOKAS]

ok quick give me the most playoffs games played?

[L.A. Jazz]

it would be a great thing, but with this old roster, the WCF are not a sure thing.

[v1ncelis]

MJ 179 games 5987 points
Kobe Bean 220 games 5640

Not impressed at all.

[Jacks3]

So because the GOAT was scoring at a higher rate... that means Kobe being the all-time scorer isn't impressive? :biggums:

[Rubio2Gasol]

Another record for LeBron, and if not, Durant to break...


next.

How much does Durant have already?

[Psileas]

Passing both Kareem and mj. Give props

Actually, Kobe will have the chance to break 3 of Jordan's playoff records next season:

1) Career playoff points
2) Career playoff games with 20+ points
3) Consecutive double digit scoring playoff games.


MJ 179 games 5987 points
Kobe Bean 220 games 5640

Not impressed at all.

Take away Kobe's first 3 seasons and he's still close to Jordan, at 5,312 points, in 192 games played. Unless 27.7 ppg is still "not impressive" for you...

[scandisk_]

lots of bitterness in this thread

props to the Mamba :rockon:

LMFAO at anyone trying to downplay this feat (not saying that it's a sure shot this season).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What are you acting so insecure about? One more game in the first round compared to who?

The best-of-seven first round should probably just be thrown out, although it can add up over a 10-15 year career. The ones that are really at a disadvantage in this particular discussion are the players pre-1984 (when the playoffs expanded to 16 teams).

What is there to be insecure about? Kobe will likely retire with the most playoff points of all time. Those who are annoyed with that are trying to come up with excuses. None of them seem to remember that Kobe's dominance was so great that he once ringed up in only 17 games. How many hypothetical points did he leave on the table as a result of being so dominant that year?

[longtime lurker]

lots of bitterness in this thread

props to the Mamba :rockon:

LMFAO at anyone trying to downplay this feat (not saying that it's a sure shot this season).

Amen. It's sad that people just can't accept a great achievement by a great player. And yes it should matter when making comparisons to other great players because he's doing something that out of the thousands of players to be in the NBA only a handful have achieved what he has.

[pauk]

Congrats.

[The_Yearning]

Another record for LeBron, and if not, Durant to break...


next.

Records are easy to break playing in the weak East.

[pauk]

MJ 179 games 5987 points
Kobe Bean 220 games 5640

Not impressed at all.

Yea, its not as impressive as what Jordan did, more of a matter of longevity... but still, its a decent feat, congrats.

[Dictator]

Yea, its not as impressive as what Jordan did, more of a matter of longevity... but still, its a decent feat, congrats.

Coming from the guy who said Yao Ming is arguably a better player than Kobe. :coleman:

[Peteballa]

Very impressive. Great achievement to add to an already illustrious career.

[Baby Arm Johnso]

An interesting statistic for the top 3 playoff scorers would be shots taken to achieve their point totals and field goal shooting percentage in playoffs verses regular season.

Sorry but I'm too tired to look this up . . . anybody?

[Bcogswell]

Not so sure he will achieve it this year or not but either way its going to be a hell of an achievement when he does.

[jlip]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Only the most insecure "hater" would not consider this an achievement.

P.S. Contextualizing it does not make you a "hater."

[pegasus]

So because the GOAT was scoring at a higher rate... that means Kobe being the all-time scorer isn't impressive? :biggums:
This. I don't understand why people have to try and diminish Kobe's accomplishments by comparing him to Jordan, who is the undisputed GOAT. No one is even saying Kobe is #2 or anything.

He is one of the top ten players ever, and one of the greatest scorers, and this feat will only further validate that.

[Umad101]

Not so sure he will achieve it this year or not but either way its going to be a hell of an achievement when he does.
Why not he's only 347 points away that basically achieved in 10-15 games. Were not even talking about making it to the finals,that's like a trip to the second round or WCF which u know the lakers are definitely capable of

[juju151111]

Kobe longevity record is amazing. Congrats

[Umad101]

Kobe longevity record is amazing. Congrats
U know the hate in this thread isn't as bad as I thought it would be

[INDI]

Why not he's only 347 points away that basically achieved in 10-15 games. Were not even talking about making it to the finals,that's like a trip to the second round or WCF which u know the lakers are definitely capable of

I expect him to average about 25 games this post season so it should take him exactly 14 games to do it. The lakers are good enough to sweep a round ( or two ) so they should get to the wcf in about 8-11 games.

I believe he will get it only if they make it to the championship, if not then he might literally fall 1 or 2 games short of the record.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I expect him to average about 25 games this post season so it should take him exactly 14 games to do it. The lakers are good enough to sweep a round ( or two ) so they should get to the wcf in about 8-11 games.

I believe he will get it only if they make it to the championship, if not then he might literally fall 1 or 2 games short of the record.

I think he should be limited to 30 or so minutes a game until they meet OKC assuming everyone is healthy.

No need for him to average 25 a game at least not in the first round.

[juju151111]

U know the hate in this thread isn't as bad as I thought it would be
Who is hating?

[LakersReign]

I would hope that any quasi-intelligent fan of the game, should be able to see the greatness in Kobe Bryant.... and its sad to say that views on him are way too polarized to have a civil debate about his place in the historical hierarchy of all-time NBA greats.

I'm not sure if its just a sign of the times and that the modern sports fan has pretty much potentially unlimited resources, or that said unlimited resources has allowed immature uniformed fans to enter the debate with those attempting to stay unbiased.... but Kobe Bryant has become so incredibly polarized on the internet that it has become damn-near impossible to have a public conversation about him without it exploding into mayhem.

The real reason why it explodes into mayhem, is only cuz you have a bunch of kids, who only started watching the NBA back in '03(cuz of Lebron), who insist on trying to speak about things they CLEARLY know nothing about. They sit there trying to force feed other people their bias, acting like it's an absolute. Then, when proven wrong, all they can do is resort to personal attacks and insults, like the immature idiots they so obviously are. Any reasonable NBA fan, Laker/Kobe fan or not, should be able to have a decent conversation/discussion about Kobe. If you can't then, you're a moron, who's basketball opinions shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Umad101]

I expect him to average about 25 games this post season so it should take him exactly 14 games to do it. The lakers are good enough to sweep a round ( or two ) so they should get to the wcf in about 8-11 games.

I believe he will get it only if they make it to the championship, if not then he might literally fall 1 or 2 games short of the record.
1st round-sweep(4gms)
2nd round-sweep(4gms)
3rd round-in 6 games( doubt we go less than 6 games with the thunder)

14x25=350 dont even have to get to the finals and he still can become #1

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Amazing record indeed. This longevity is quite remarkable, especially comparing it to the other players of his time.

[Umad101]

Who is hating?
Couple ppl on front 2 pages

[Pointguard]

Another example of why he is unquestionably a top ten player (Mikan included) all-time.

I don't think he can lead a team to a title anymore, but if there is a team he could, it'd be this year's Lakers cast. I third title as the man, with the rest of his nearing exclusive longevity for a guard resume makes him a serious candidate to crack the top 4-8. Kobe versus Wilt or Kareem would actually be debatable.

I think everybody in the top ten gets a lot of total points if they play in a lot of games, save for Russell and Magic, who would eventually get moved out of the top ten if such a quality is given a lot of credence. I think ppg is a better illustrator of impact. I think Kobe is top nine anyway and this aspect of his game is a testament to it but I don't know if I move him up because of it. Its a great accolade and definitely a great bragging right. But I'm always a quality over volume guy.

[JellyBean]

Wow. That is some serious work being put in by Kobe. Mad props to the Black Mamba. :applause:

[BlueandGold]

Not sure how to feel about this. The change in number of teams, rounds, and games available in the playoffs has changed pretty drastically. The NBA didn't even extend to a sixteen team playoff format until 1984 and they didn't extend the first round to a best-of-seven until 2003.

Good for Kobe, though.
The flip-side to that argument would be in Kobe's favor though, making his 5 championships all that tough to obtain since even Jordan didnt have to play a 7 game series in the first round. Hell even the semifinals up to the late 80s was 5 games.

[TryToBeUnbias]

Kobes Longevity Sheds light on Kareems longevity to me at least as well..

[KG215]

The flip-side to that argument would be in Kobe's favor though, making his 5 championships all that tough to obtain since even Jordan didnt have to play a 7 game series in the first round. Hell even the semifinals up to the late 80s was 5 games.

Neither are really all that significant and I wasn't even talking about Jordan. I was mainly talking about players in the pre-16 team playoff era.

[jlip]

Kobes Longevity Sheds light on Kareems longevity to me at least as well..

Their respective "longevities" (I just made that word up.), IMO, have to be looked at differently considering the ages in which they started their careers. Kareem's first game was played as a 22 year old. Kobe's first game was played as an 18 year old. I would say that Karl Malone's longevity is a better comparison when considering Kareem's.

[pegasus]

1st round-sweep(4gms)
2nd round-sweep(4gms)
3rd round-in 6 games( doubt we go less than 6 games with the thunder)

14x25=350 dont even have to get to the finals and he still can become #1
Yep, that's very realistic, especially knowing he averaged 30ppg in 10 playoff games this past season. 25ppg is totally achievable for him.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Coming from the guy who said Yao Ming is arguably a better player than Kobe. :coleman:
There's a reason why he was voted the 3rd worst poster on ISH http://poll.pollcode.com/pmdvsm

[Money 23]

Well, he's been in the league a LONG ass time.

He's been blessed with rosters capable of getting to the playoffs EVERY SINGLE season he's been in the league.

And then even more blessed to have been on teams with rosters capable of going DEEP in the playoffs (2006 and 2007 being exceptions)

He should be the all-time playoff leader in points given his talents, skills, capabilities and as I explained ... circumstances.

Ultimately, beyond the longevity of it all, I'm not super impressed.

Such a regular season beast at his peak putting points on the score board, and only one time in the playoffs scoring 50?

:/

[DFish]

Such a regular season beast at his peak putting points on the score board, and only one time in the playoffs scoring 50?

:/

How many times has LeBeta scored 50 in the playoffs? Would none times be an accurate answer?

[Money 23]

How many times has LeBeta scored 50 in the playoffs? Would none times be an accurate answer?
Where did I say otherwise?

With that said game 6 v.s. Boston in the ECF this year he could've EASILY surpassed 50. But took his foot off the gas after he saved his entire reputation as a player and stomped out the Celtics in ONE SINGLE GAME by blowing them out IN BOSTON.

But LeBron isn't my guy. My dude did it in the playoffs 8 times. Why?

Cause he's the greatest ever. And his teams needed it, because he wasn't gifted all kinds of help, and because he didn't puss his way out of town to join superior talent.

[RRR3]

How many times has LeBeta scored 50 in the playoffs? Would none times be an accurate answer?
He's scored 49 before:confusedshrug: 1 whole point wow:rolleyes:
LeBron has a higher PPG in the playoffs anyways.




Next.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Where did I say otherwise?

With that said game 6 v.s. Boston in the ECF this year he could've EASILY surpassed 50. But took his foot off the gas after he saved his entire reputation as a player and stomped out the Celtics in ONE SINGLE GAME by blowing them out IN BOSTON.

But LeBron isn't my guy. My dude did it in the playoffs 8 times. Why?

Cause he's the greatest ever. And his teams needed it, because he wasn't gifted all kinds of help, and because he didn't puss his way out of town to join superior talent.

and he played 8 times as many cupcake playoff defenses

:applause: :oldlol:

[poido123]

MJ 179 games 5987 points
Kobe Bean 220 games 5640

Not impressed at all.

This. longevity and playing in good teams over a long career got him this record.
MJ's 5987 points from 179 games is much more impressive.

[Money 23]

and he played 8 times as many cupcake playoff defenses
Not really.

The lone time Kobe scored 50 was on a team whose philosophy is to NOT play defense.

D'Antoni's Suns

:oldlol:

MJ went 50+ on some of the best and most physical defenses ever, and a top five team of all time got lit up for 63.

Try again, kiddo.

[poido123]

and he played 8 times as many cupcake playoff defenses

:applause: :oldlol:

Obvious troll. Looked at avatar and :facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Not really.

The lone time Kobe scored 50 was on a team whose philosophy is to NOT play defense.

D'Antoni's Suns

:oldlol:

MJ went 50+ on some of the best and most physical defenses ever, and a top five team of all time got lit up for 63.

Try again, kiddo.

04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1

MJ vs 97 Heat

Game 1 15 for 31
Game 2 4 for 15
Game 3 14 for 25
Game 4 9 for 35
Game 5 11 for 31

MJ vs 93 Knicks

Game 1 10 for 27
Game 2 12 for 32
Game 3 3 for 18
Game 4 18 for 30
Game 5 11 for 24
Game 6 8 for 24

:confusedshrug:

[Money 23]

Here goes Ming's Foot with his defensive rating agenda.

Even though he's been schooled time and time again that the comparison doesn't make sense across eras given change in pace, playing style, and even minor influences like rule changes and loss of basketball skills ...

Such as the early 2000s when no one knew how to pass, catch and shoot, run an offense or simply make jumpers because the league became too focused on drafting dumb HS'ers with athletic POTENTIAL.

Thus a drop in PPG averages.

Thus negating the concept of comparing defensive ratings across eras. It's not relative. And makes no sense.

But keep livng in your dumb fantasy world haha

[Yao Ming's Foot]

97 Jazz 104.0
92 Knicks 104.2
92 Blazers 104.2
10 Thunder 104.6
91 Pistons 104.6
89 Pistons 104.7
97 Bullets 104.9
91 Lakers 105.0
10 Jazz 105.0
98 Hornets 105.3
88 Pistons 105.3
98 Jazz 105.4
98 Jazz 105.4
06 Suns 105.8
88 Cavs 106.0
93 Cavs 106.0
95 Hornets 106.1
08 Nuggets 106.3
07 Suns 106.4
08 Jazz 106.5
98 Nets 106.6
93 Suns 106.7
09 Nuggets 106.8
87 Celtics 106.8
96 Magic 106.9
91 Knicks 107.3
09 Jazz 107.3
89 Knicks 107.5
95 Magic 107.8
90 Bucks 108.1
91 76ers 108.1
92 Cavs 108.2
90 76ers 108.4
10 Suns 110.2
93 Hawks 110.2
92 Heat 110.9

Yeah 8 times looks about right.

:confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Here goes Ming's Foot with his defensive rating agenda.

Even though he's been schooled time and time again that the comparison doesn't make sense across eras given change in pace, playing style, and even minor influences like rule changes and loss of basketball skills ...

Such as the early 2000s when no one knew how to pass, catch and shoot, run an offense or simply make jumpers because the league became too focused on drafting dumb HS'ers with athletic POTENTIAL.

Thus a drop in PPG averages.

Thus negating the concept of comparing defensive ratings across eras. It's not relative. And makes no sense.

But keep livng in your dumb fantasy world haha

Wow a Jordan mythologists hyping up offensive statistics across eras and then in the very next post claiming that defensive statistics can't be compared across eras due to the same reasons that make Jordan's inflated stats look so great. Do you guys ever get smarter? Please never change.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Who knew dumb athletic high schoolers were such great defensive players?

:oldlol:

[Poochymama]

97 Jazz 104.0
92 Knicks 104.2
92 Blazers 104.2
10 Thunder 104.6
91 Pistons 104.6
89 Pistons 104.7
97 Bullets 104.9
91 Lakers 105.0
10 Jazz 105.0
98 Hornets 105.3
88 Pistons 105.3
98 Jazz 105.4
98 Jazz 105.4
06 Suns 105.8
88 Cavs 106.0
93 Cavs 106.0
95 Hornets 106.1
08 Nuggets 106.3
07 Suns 106.4
08 Jazz 106.5
98 Nets 106.6
93 Suns 106.7
09 Nuggets 106.8
87 Celtics 106.8
96 Magic 106.9
91 Knicks 107.3
09 Jazz 107.3
89 Knicks 107.5
95 Magic 107.8
90 Bucks 108.1
91 76ers 108.1
92 Cavs 108.2
90 76ers 108.4
10 Suns 110.2
93 Hawks 110.2
92 Heat 110.9

Yeah 8 times looks about right.

:confusedshrug:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

@ the 06 Suns being a better defensive team than the 88 Pistons. I guess Kobe would do better against Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, and Dennis Rodman than he would against Steve Nash, Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa. Yep that makes sense.

YMF, I do applaud the fact that you continue bring up these useless statistics thinking they mean something, despite the fact that numerous people showing you exactly why they're useless, also despite the fact that literally no one ever agrees with you other than the most outrageous Kobe stans(even most of those guys aren't that stupid).

Keep doing what you're doing and never let op. Maybe someday you'll convince someone other than youself and other kobe stans:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Another DRtg comparison? Don't mind if I do!

Kobe, at age 30, in the 2009 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.2ppg, .457%fg, 5.3reb, 5.5ast

Jordan, at age 30, in the 1993 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
35.1ppg, .472%fg, 6.7reb, 6.0ast

Kobe, at age 32, in the 2011 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
22.8ppg, .446%fg, 3.4reb, 3.4ast

Jordan, at age 33, in the '96 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.7ppg, .459%fg, 4.9reb, 4.1ast

Kobe, at age 33, in the 2012 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 104):
30.0ppg, .439%fg, 4.8reb, 4.3ast

Jordan, at age 34, in the '97 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 102):
31.1ppg, .456%fg, 7.9reb, 4.8ast

Now imagine PEAK Jordan against these defenses. :eek:

[jongib369]

Jordan- 179 playoff games - 5987 pts- total 15 + playoff games = 8.. 20+ 2

Kareem- 237 - 5762 = 7.. 2

Kobe- 220- 5640 = 7.. 5

Highest density of playoff games in 5 year period

Kareem played the majority of his playoff games in latter part of his career age 36 to 41- 96 games..Kobe age 21 to 26- 91 games...Jordan 29 to 35 87 games

Playoff seasons averging 20 + FGA

Jordan= 12 out of 13

Kareem= 10 out of 18

Kobe= 10 out of 15

Playoff seasons averaging 22 + FGA

Jordan= 12 out of 13

Kareem= 7 out of 18

Kobe= 8 out of 15

Seasons averging less than 19 FGA

Jordan- 1 out of 13

Kareem- 8 out of 18

Kobe- 5 out of 15

[Poochymama]

Another DRtg comparison? Don't mind if I do!

Kobe, at age 30, in the 2009 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.2ppg, .457%fg, 5.3reb, 5.5ast

Jordan, at age 30, in the 1993 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
35.1ppg, .472%fg, 6.7reb, 6.0ast

Kobe, at age 32, in the 2011 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
22.8ppg, .446%fg, 3.4reb, 3.4ast

Jordan, at age 33, in the '96 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.7ppg, .459%fg, 4.9reb, 4.1ast

Kobe, at age 33, in the 2012 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 104):
30.0ppg, .439%fg, 4.8reb, 4.3ast

Jordan, at age 34, in the '97 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 102):
31.1ppg, .456%fg, 7.9reb, 4.8ast

Now imagine PEAK Jordan against these defenses. :eek:

just add 2-3ppg, 1-2rpg, 2-3 apg and upt the efficiency by 5%. That's peak Jordan in comparison to second threepeat Jordan(though I do think Jordan was better mentally and a better leader in the second three peat).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

@ the 06 Suns being a better defensive team than the 88 Pistons. I guess Kobe would do better against Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, and Dennis Rodman than he would against Steve Nash, Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa. Yep that makes sense.

YMF, I do applaud the fact that you continue bring up these useless statistics thinking they mean something, despite the fact that numerous people showing you exactly why they're useless, also despite the fact that literally no one ever agrees with you other than the most outrageous Kobe stans(even most of those guys aren't that stupid).

Keep doing what you're doing and never let op. Maybe someday you'll convince someone other than youself and other kobe stans:roll:

It's pretty simple. Offensive numbers were inflated in 1988. That's the reason why the second best D in the league gave up a whopping 105.3 points per 100 possessions. If they played in 2006 their defensive rating would be lower. Unfortunately for Jordan mythologists that didn't happen. Jordan didn't played those Pistons under 2006 rules and referees. We use how the entire league fared against the Pistons in 1988 as the basis for Jordan's offensive statistics against them.

[Chrono90]

Hope he does it!!!

But main thing in his head is winning chips. I think winning 2 more chips as the fmvp would bring him in a serious better than MJ debate. If he wins 3 or more, then its going to be war.

At this point, Kobe's stats alone wouldn't surpass Jordan. Jordan's is clearly better. The only ammo now is winning more championships.

[DatAsh]

It's pretty simple. Offensive numbers were inflated in 1988. That's the reason why the second best D in the league gave up a whopping 105.3 points per 100 possessions. If they played in 2006 their defensive rating would be lower. Unfortunately for Jordan mythologists that didn't happen. Jordan didn't played those Pistons under 2006 rules and referees. We use how the entire league fared against the Pistons in 1988 as the basis for Jordan's offensive statistics against them.

Perhaps offensive numbers were inflated because the offenses were better back then with less isolation play and better ball movement?

How do you know that's not the case?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Perhaps offensive numbers were inflated because the offenses were better back then with less isolation play and better ball movement?

How do you know that's not the case?

Because I have seen zero evidence to support that hypothesis. The most parroted theory around here is that high schoolers started getting drafted and they don't know how to play offense. That's a fine theory until you consider the fact for however weak they may be on offense they are naturally going to be weaker NBA defenders, negating any supposed leaguewide destruction of offensive efficiency.

[DatAsh]

Because I have seen zero evidence to support that hypothesis. The most parroted theory around here is that high schoolers started getting drafted and they don't know how to play offense. That's a fine theory until you consider the fact for however weak they may be on offense they are naturally going to be weaker NBA defenders, negating any supposed leaguewide destruction of offensive efficiency.


Yet you believe the contrary when there is zero evidence to back that up? What gives?

I smell bias.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yet you believe the contrary when there is zero evidence to back that up? What gives?

I smell bias.

Does it make sense to you to believe that NBA coaches and players suddenly forgot how to play efficient offensive basketball from about 1999 to 2004 and have gradually been lifted of this amnesia as we get closer to present day?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

[QUOTE]A history of NBA scoring and rule changes


THE 1980s
1980: 105.3
1981: 105.5
1982: 106.9
1983: 104.7
1984: 107.6
1985: 107.9
1986: 107.2
1987: 108.3
1988: 108.0
1989: 107.8


SIGNIFICANT RULE CHANGES
1980: In perhaps the most important rules change league scoring has ever seen, the 3pt shot was adopted by the NBA.

The results are seen immediately - a jump to 105 PPP and the league never looked back.

1982: Zone defense rules clarified with new rules for Illegal Defensive Alignments. In other words, the death of zone defense.

With zone defenses severely limited, teams began to take the physical limitations of handchecking to the limit. While the Bad Boy Pistons were especially known for this, it did not stop teams from scoring at an efficient rate that was simply unheard of 10-20 years prior. League scoring hit an all-time high 108.3 PPP in 1987, just when the Bad Boys were starting their run.

THE 1990s
1990: 108.1
1991: 107.9
1992: 108.2
1993: 108.0
1994: 106.3
1995: 108.3
1996: 107.6
1997: 106.7
1998: 105.0
1999: 102.2

SIGNIFICANT RULE CHANGES
1994: The 24-second clock is reset only when the basketball hits the rim. Previously, the clock would be reset if the ball hit either the rim or the backboard. This is a huge blow towards offenses, as it is much easier to force a 24 second violation with the change.

1995: There was A LOT going on in the 90s, particularly in 95.
A. The league shortened the three-point line (22 feet in the corners extending to 23 feet, nine inches at the top of the key) to a uniform 22 feet around the basket.
B. Awarded three foul shots for any player fouled while attempting a three-point field goal.
C. Hand-checking eliminated from the end line in the backcourt to the opposite foul line.
D. "Clear path

[Young X]

The '90 Pistons held the Bulls to 93 pts on 41% in their series
The '08 Celtics held the Lakers to 94 pts on 44% in their series

MJ vs '90 Pistons: 32 pts on 47%
Kobe vs. '08 Celtics: 26 pts on 41%

[Money 23]

The '90 Pistons held the Bulls to 93 pts on 41% in their series
The '08 Celtics held the Lakers to 94 pts on 44% in their series

MJ vs '90 Pistons: 32 pts on 47%
Kobe vs. '08 Celtics: 26 pts on 41%
Exactly.

[KG215]

This thread is about Kobe and should've stayed that way, but I've learned that anytime someone brings up Jordan's superior scoring YMF will be there with his DRtg statistics.

Every. Single. Time.

[Money 23]

Every. Single. Time.
Alborz / KB42PAH

[upside24]

This thread is about Kobe and should've stayed that way, but I've learned that anytime someone brings up Jordan's superior scoring YMF will be there with his DRtg statistics.

Every. Single. Time.
:lol Don't know why, but this is the funniest post I've read in a while.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

This thread is about Kobe and should've stayed that way, but I've learned that anytime someone brings up Jordan's superior scoring YMF will be there with his DRtg statistics.

Every. Single. Time.

At least you are finally getting the order correct. Maybe the Jordan mythologists should refrain from posting inflated Jordan numbers in topics about Kobe " Every. Single. Time.". :confusedshrug:

[DatAsh]

Does it make sense to you to believe that NBA coaches and players suddenly forgot how to play efficient offensive basketball from about 1999 to 2004 and have gradually been lifted of this amnesia as we get closer to present day?

It's just as illogical to assume that coaches suddenly figured out how to coach defense in the early 2000s and then slowly started to forget over the coming years.

And why is that the only logical explanation for an offensive decline? It's certainly possible that the offensive talent just wasn't up to snuff during that period, and just looking at the offensive talent in the league at that time I'd say it's highly probable.

Ball movement and team play was at an all time high in the eighties, think 2012 Spurs, but better. It's by no means a stretch to think that that contributed in some part to the inflated offensive statistics.

Personally, I think it's a combination of both. Having lived through and witnessed all the offenses and defenses in question, I'd rate them as follows

Inside Offense
1. 1980s(Kareem, Olajuwon, Parish, McHale, Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Malone)
2. 1990s(Olajuwon, O'Neal, Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Mourning)
3. early 2000s(O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett)
4. late 2000s and early 2010s(Dwight)

Perimeter Offense
1. late 2000s and early 2010s(poor ball movement put easily the best talent with Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Durant, + great PGs)
2. 1980s(less talent but excellent ball movement)
3. 1990s(less talent but great ball movement)
4. early 2000s(mediocre talent and bad ball movement)

Inside Defense
1. early 2000s(Shaq, Mutombo, Duncan, Wallace, Garnett)
2. 1990s(Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo)
3. 1980s(Eaton, Olajuwon, Ewing)
4. late 2000s early 2010s(Dwight)

Perimeter Defense
1. 1990s(greatest overall talent Jordan, Pippen, Payton, Rodman, Dumars, Blaylock, Kidd)
2. early 2000s(great talent with Kobe, Bowen, Artest, Kidd)
3. late 2000s early 2010s(solid perimeter defenders though no handchecking really puts a damper of perimeter defense)
4. 1980s(perimeter defense just didn't seem like a priority until the late 80s)

Overall Offense
1. 1980s
2. 1990s
3. late 2000s early 2010s
4. early 2000s

Overall Defense
1. early 2000s
2. 1990s
3. late 2000s early 2010s
4. 1980s

[Money 23]

At least you are finally getting the order correct. Maybe the Jordan mythologists should refrain from posting inflated Jordan numbers in topics about Kobe " Every. Single. Time.". :confusedshrug:
Jordan mythologists are closer to the definitive truth than young psychotic Kobe apostles and their distorted view of reality in order to fit the agenda.

With MJ, the myth and legend are so strong and is so close to the actual man / performance its hard to tell where one ends, and the other begins.

Bottom line is ... you hate it, but deal with it because its closer to reality than your fantasy world.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It's just as illogical to assume that coaches suddenly figured out how to coach defense in the early 2000s and then slowly started to forget over the coming years.

And why is that the only logical explanation for an offensive decline? It's certainly possible that the offensive talent just wasn't up to snuff during that period, and just looking at the offensive talent in the league at that time I'd say it's highly probable.


Talent levels don't drastically change from year to year, but defensive rules did.

:facepalm

[Jacks3]

Another thread ruined by the crazed, insecure Jordan apostles.

:facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The '90 Pistons held the Bulls to 93 pts on 41% in their series
The '08 Celtics held the Lakers to 94 pts on 44% in their series

MJ vs '90 Pistons: 32 pts on 47%
Kobe vs. '08 Celtics: 26 pts on 41%

This is some STRONG ether. :applause:

[Money 23]

This is some STRONG ether. :applause:
That 6 point difference is monumental, too. That's more than a class difference between scorers.

And it's against real comparable elite competition that separates them.

As I've always said, the devil is in the details.

[DKLaker]

What if the Lakers miss the playoffs?

The only way that happens is if the Mayan Calendar end of the world stuff is true :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[coin24]

Godbe da GOAT:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[DKLaker]

LMAO at all of these arguments :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
None of the arguments make the least bit of difference because after next season the record books will show Kobe as #1, DEAL WITH IT!!!!! :banana:

[KG215]

Talent levels don't drastically change from year to year, but defensive rules did.

:facepalm

Maybe not, but that doesn't meant he offenses couldn't be or weren't better in the 80s. It's not some outlandish thought. Some believe the offenses of the 80s were better than they are now or have been in 15-20 years. There's a reason some people were saying this year's Spurs team may have been the best passing team they've seen since the Showtime Lakers and Bird Celtics of the 80s. Ball movement, fastbreak and transition, and halfcourt execution as a whole was considered to be at a higher level than it is now or has been the last 20 years or so.

When someone brings this up, you throw it aside because they can't prove it with stats. Although you could use ORtg in the same manner you use DRtg for your argument. Of course you'd just dismiss it because it doesn't fit your agenda that the lower DRtgs of the early and mid-2000s means defenses were better then than they were in the 80s and 90s.

[The Iron Fist]

Right, this is something that can and should be used to accentuate his resume but shouldn't be held over the heads of prolific playoff scorers who came before the 16 team playoff era. It shows Kobe's incredible consistency and longevity, but people should also take into account the extra number of playoff games he's been afforded, especially over the players from the 50s through the mid-80s.
Then you make sure you are there to tell of Bill Russells greatness and how he faced the best of the best in his day and not a watered down league full of expansion.

Show consistency if you want to talk about context.

[Kblaze8855]

It was mentioned that Kobe was about to be the all time playoff assist leader for non points a while back. Similar issues so........



Reading this topic really makes me wonder why people who dont care enough about history to look into it argue about peoples place in it.

There are so many reasons this "record" doesnt matter its hard for me to even believe this was posted to begin with. Forget if you think Bird and older players just...failed to lead their teams to as much playoff success as Kobe and therefore played less games....

When I was a kid....the #1 seed got a BYE in the playoffs.

The Celtics didnt even PLAY the first round every year. Now its 4 to 7 games. And in those times....even if you didnt get a bye? The first round was THREE games. Best of 3...so...you win games one and two...series over.

Larry Bird was probably working on his 3rd ring before he could even play the first round if he had the #1 seed and if he played it...its a 3 game series.


Talking about Kobe as about to break a record nobody before now had a chance to set under anything close to the same conditions? Really?

And its not like a playoff totals record is always due to playing the best. Even if everyone in question played the same number of rounds....one guy sweeps his way to the finals and the other goes the distance playing worse all along...the guy who played better and led his team to Ws....has WORSE totals.

Bill Russell won 11 rings in 12 finals trips and played less playoff games than Sam Perkins who while playing in 2 more playoffs(played longer than Bill) went out first round 6 times and made 9 less finals.

People have won the title only playing 12 games. You can not make the conference finals and play 14 today. Kobe just played 12 games and lost in the second round.

It is not even close to fair to compare totals vs players of the past. Them playing too well HURT their numbers. Dominate too much and get a #1 seed you dont even play the first round. Or get a #2 seed and play a weak team and sweep them...in 2 games.

Played too well to stack numbers.

But lets just take the totals at face value and ignore everything...call it hating if it makes it obvious Kobe wont have the record due to playing the best in this area or even the most longevity. He will have it(till lebron takes it) because his era gives you more playoff games to play per round which is why 4 players from the Shaq/Kobe lakers are top 5 all time in playoff games played.

Its not superior dominance. Its not having a first round bye, not having a 2 game first round when you dont have a bye, and not finishing off teams very quickly leading to long playoff series.

Which should be too obvious to make such a topic. Either you care about history or you dont. If you dont care how these things come about...why talk about where someone ranks in relation to people from the past?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It was mentioned that Kobe was about to be the all time playoff assist leader for non points a while back. Similar issues so........

Well you since you mentioned Bird and Russell lets see how many additional games would they have needed to play in to be in contention for the record...

Bill Russell at 2673 playoff points needs 3315 more to top Jordan and with a 16.2 ppg playoff average would have to play in 205 more playoff games to get there.

Larry Bird at 3897 playoff points needs 2090 more to top Jordan and with a 23.8 playoff average would have to play in 88 more playoff games to get there.

Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes boss. Neither of those players approach the record under the current system (which changed in 2003 btw)

[Jacks3]

He could potentially retire with 7-8 rings and as the all-time regular and post-season scorer.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Kblaze8855]

Well you since you mentioned Bird and Russell lets see how many additional games would they have needed to play in to be in contention for the record...

I mention its about an assist topic from the past and you tell me about their points?

Its about the games modern players get to stack totals. Not each specific number.

Kobe...then Lebron...then Durant...will have a lot of these records. and it wont be because of superior game to game performance.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I mention its about an assist topic from the past and you tell me about their points?

Its about the games modern players get to stack totals. Not each specific number.

Kobe...then Lebron...then Durant...will have a lot of these records. and it wont be because of superior game to game performance.

This thread is about points. If you think another legend would have had the record that Kobe will likely retire with given how the playoffs have evolved over time name him. If you can't then I don't see what validity your post has. Kobe is an elite scorer who has been in 7 Finals he would have been in the running under any scenarios. :confusedshrug:

[EnoughSaid]

LeBron will tear up these records and nobody will remember anything Kobe has done in the Playoffs.

[Legends66NBA7]

nobody will remember anything Kobe has done in the Playoffs.

Who's nobody ? Maybe your referring to some random casual fans, but anybody who follows the history of the game will remember Bryant for doing a lot of great things in the playoffs.

[Kblaze8855]

He would be. As would Lebron. And probably Durant and whoever comes after them. But records about totals when everyone before current players were dealing with shorter series, first round byes, and so on?

Serious "Eh..." status record.

Lot of those out there I suppose. Im generally unimpressed by them. Not the greatness of the players who set them. It always takes a great player to do these things.

But the records? I think I know too much about these things to care.

Im reasonably sure nobody is gonna catch the 60s rebounders playoff totals even with more games played now. Were Wilt and Russell great rebounders? no doubt. But lets not pretend Dennis Rodman could expect to have 135 shots missed in a finals game and act like that isnt a factor.

Even if it acts as something of a bring down to people who dont know any better....its true.

Players before recently...did not get as many playoff games. The totals will be thrown off in favor of everyone who did not have to deal with the old system. Just how it is.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

He would be. As would Lebron. And probably Durant and whoever comes after them. But records about totals when everyone before current players were dealing with shorter series, first round byes, and so on?

Serious "Eh..." status record.

Lot of those out there I suppose. Im generally unimpressed by them. Not the greatness of the players who set them. It always takes a great player to do these things.

But the records? I think I know too much about these things to care.

Im reasonably sure nobody is gonna catch the 60s rebounders playoff totals even with more games played now. Were Wilt and Russell great rebounders? no doubt. But lets not pretend Dennis Rodman could expect to have 135 shots missed in a finals game and act like that isnt a factor.

Even if it acts as something of a bring down to people who dont know any better....its true.

Players before recently...did not get as many playoff games. The totals will be thrown off in favor of everyone who did not have to deal with the old system. Just how it is.

I didn't see any names listed in there. Which players given the same playoff format Kobe played with would have had a higher playoff point total that Jordan has now?

[magictricked]

KBlaze I understand your point but if it was completely valid wouldn't those players of the 60's that you say are handicapped by not having the chance to play in as many playoff games as modern players be ahead in regular season points where they did play as many games?

Since 1960 they've played at least 80 games a season and yet of all those 60's greats only one has scored more regular points than Kobe.

You're trying to diminish the modern era player because he has more opportunities available to him and that's not right. If it was right we'd have to put those 60's and 70's players in the same box with Kobe and go back to the 50s when they played even less playoff games to find the true playoff leaders.

[Kblaze8855]

You did not see names. You saw reasoning. I dont think you do those kinds of conversations. You want something you can google and do some math about? For the purpose of what?

There are several obvious people who are barely behind who had multiple years of first round byes. Others who were elite scorers but had the conference finals as their first round. Losing up to 14 games at 27-45ppg will clearly make an impact on totals.

If you need me to say their names so you can quote it and present me with numbers I dont care about...im gonna go ahead and spare myself the scrolling past it as I scoff and you the math that anyone who cared could do themselves.

The point is obvious. there are many great scorers who never had a fair shake at a totals record because they played less playoff games. You can feel free to google how many times such and such made the finals and what their ppg getting there was.

Fact is...the many elite scorers this league has had...were not given as many games to stack these totals.

Considering that...PPG seems quite a bit more fair to consider. not that im terribly concerned about that either.

[Kblaze8855]

KBlaze I understand your point but if it was completely valid wouldn't those players of the 60's that you say are handicapped by not having the chance to play in as many playoff games as modern players be ahead in regular season points where they did play as many games?
Kobe has scored less per game than several players he has scored more points than. We really need to discuss the many reasons why that is? The many many things that happened from the 90s to now that did not happen in the 60s to 80s?

Are these things you think the world needs to discuss again? having seen it done for the last 10 years I can rather firmly say....I dont.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You did not see names. You saw reasoning. I dont think you do those kinds of conversations. You want something you can google and do some math about? For the purpose of what?

There are several obvious people who are barely behind who had multiple years of first round byes. Others who were elite scorers but had the conference finals as their first round. Losing up to 14 games at 27-45ppg will clearly make an impact on totals.

If you need me to say their names so you can quote it and present me with numbers I dont care about...im gonna go ahead and spare myself the scrolling past it as I scoff and you the math that anyone who cared could do themselves.

The point is obvious. there are many great scorers who never had a fair shake at a totals record because they played less playoff games. You can feel free to google how many times such and such made the finals and what their ppg getting there was.

Fact is...the many elite scorers this league has had...were not given as many games to stack these totals.

Considering that...PPG seems quite a bit more fair to consider. not that im terribly concerned about that either.

Well I guess that really sucks for that hypothetical player without a name. No wonder you are not impressed with Kobe's sustained playoff prowess. Hypothetical player is clearly more impressive. You were too busy finding a way to minimize Kobe's success that you never bothered to ask yourself if his "advantages" actually mattered. Kobe's going to crush the record. Hypothetical man still would have been beat. :oldlol:

[dunksby]

It's an impressive feat but records are just records, Stockton leads the all-time NBA records in assists and steals but you don't see his name on this board cause he does not have much to show for it but getting owned by MJ. Kobe on the other hand would not need to set all-time records to be discussed by fans 24/7 and we all know why.
All in all there is always a great player behind an all-time record.

[macpierce]

it will be another notch on his belt.

:kobe:

[SourPatchKids]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4vah61znS1qhwi0mo1_500.gif

[TheBigVeto]

What if the Lakers miss the playoffs?

LOL. Dude, are you going to kill David Stern or something? If not, that ain't gonna happen.

[Quickening]

ChuckBe.:bowdown:

[swi7ch]

* Came straight from HS meaning more NBA years
* Did not retire for 2 years


Those two were the reasons he will surpass MJ. If MJ did the same, no way Kobe is surpassing him.

[Odinn]

I remember this thread from the start of 2012 playoffs.:oldlol:

Also Kobe is already the all-time playoff leader in fga missed!:oldlol:

[Psileas]

I didn't see any names listed in there. Which players given the same playoff format Kobe played with would have had a higher playoff point total that Jordan has now?

-Michael Jordan himself, obviously.

-Shaq would have an argument, although Kobe would still be ahead if the same system was used for his whole career.

-Jerry West: In the just 11 postseasons when he was healthy, give him a new full best of 7 round each year. 55-60 more games would put him at over 6,000 points.

-Kareem: Do the same thing, then add the fact that, using today's rules, his team would still make the 1976 playoffs, instead of having teams from the same conference with worse records making them above the Lakers, I can see him at 7,000+ points.

[Jacks3]

I remember this thread from the start of 2012 playoffs.:oldlol:


Kobe: 5 rings

Entire Sperms franchise: 4

Guess you're still bitter about Bryant and the Lakers owning your sperms in 2001, 2002, 2004, AND 2008. :oldlol:

[KingBeasley08]

Kobe: 5 rings

Entire Sperms franchise: 4

Guess you're still bitter about Bryant and the Lakers owning your sperms in 2001, 2002, 2004, AND 2008. :oldlol:
dude kobe's got 5 rings, not you. stop living thought your favorite athletes cuz you have no life :roll: