Peak Grant Hill vs Peak LeBron James

[Shade8780]

Who was better?

[eriX]

but lebron haven't gone past his peak yet?

[KOBE143]

but lebron haven't gone past his peak yet?
Also Grant never peak..

[Raz]

Also Grant never peak..

27 is very close to his peak.

LeBron wins this one easily

[GOBB]

Lebron. What did Grant Hill do better than Bron? Besides bone a hot female like Tamia. :bowdown:

[pauk]

You are kidding me right?

When people say Prime Grant was similar to Lebron they mean that Grant had a similar gamestyle at that size, same with some other players from that 90s era (Pippen, Penny)... but that doesnt mean Grant was as good as Lebron.. or even close... Lebron is like a Prime Grant/Penny/Pippen on steroids... its kindof like comparing a Dog to a Wolf or a Leopard to a Lion... same in a way.... but....

[Lebron23]

27 yrs.old Finals MVP LeBron James.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Peak Lebron... You guys overrate the crap outta Hill. :oldlol:

[swi7ch]

Easy, LBJ. He's the second greatest SF behind Larry Legend.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

This really isn't close, Lebron.

[Magic 32]

Lebron is like a Prime Grant/Penny/Pippen on steroids...

:banana:

[Nash]

Is this some kind of joke? :lol

Successful troll is successful.

[FreezingTsmoove]

So I guess Grant Hill is the new ISH Overrated player of the week. I expect many other Grant Hill vs threads now. Expect a Grant Hill vs Iverson thread soon its bound to happen

Also OP this is the stupidest thread I have seen all day

[ripthekik]

a thread like this an all the lebron diick riders come out in full force :roll:

[KG215]

You are kidding me right?

When people say Prime Grant was similar to Lebron they mean that Grant had a similar gamestyle at that size, same with some other players from that 90s era (Pippen, Penny)... but that doesnt mean Grant was as good as Lebron.. or even close... Lebron is like a Prime Grant/Penny/Pippen on steroids... its kindof like comparing a Dog to a Wolf or a Leopard to a Lion... same in a way.... but....

It may not be that close but Grant Hill was a better rebounder and a better back to the basket player. You scoffed at that notion a week or two ago when someone brought it up.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Lebron's peak is very subjective, is it 2009, 2010 or 2012? Either way, any of these versions are clearly better than Hill ever was, and it's not debatable.

Hill's scoring skill set by 2000 looked more complete with his jump shot, ability off the dribble and post game. His mid-range game and post game had become better than Lebron's, imo, but Lebron is much more physically gifted. Grant didn't have the same freakish athleticism and was about 30-40 pounds lighter.

Both are similar in their ability to handle the scoring and playmaking role, though I'd say Lebron was an even more gifted passer. Grant's rebounding was probably even more impressive, but Lebron's rebounding really impressed me much more this past season than ever before, so if you consider 2012 Lebron's peak than the gap isn't that big.

The biggest difference is probably their defense. Lebron has become an excellent defender these last few years, especially in Miami, while Hill was nothing special defensively when he was in Detroit. He's actually shown more defensively in his late 30's than he did in his prime.

They seem closer if you just compare their skill sets, but if you look at effectiveness and what Lebron does for his team's success, it's not close. I've also never seen Hill dominate games quite as much or as frequently as I've seen Lebron. Part of that is Lebron playing in a more favorable era for perimeter players, but most of it is because he's just flat out better.

I'm not sure if this would have happened with 2000 Grant Hill, but if you look at some of Hill's playoff appearances, just picture the shit Lebron would take for similar performances.

I'll use 1997 as an example. Hill did have his inferior Piston team up 2-1 on a very good Hawk team, but he blew that 2-1 lead including a 4th quarter lead in game 5 while going scoreless in the 4th quarter of that elimination game. The '99 series vs Detroit was eerily similar from Hill's performance being similar(effective all around, not great down the stretch) and even similar in Mutombo's effectiveness in both series. Though that's irrelevant.

[Whoah10115]

Grant Hill is not overrated, so this comparison isn't awful.



But Lebron has certainly hit a different stride. It'd have been cool to see Hill get more of those prime years. Also, Hill has become a great defender these last 5 years. It'd have been interesting to see if his defense would have taken a jump, like Lebron's did.



Hill is the better ball-handler and rebounder. Also better as a pure point. But Lebron's ability to score is on a much higher level. That and his defense are the difference. And it's pretty clear. At this point, Lebron is the 2nd best peak SF ever.

[MiamiThrice]

Grant Hill is a player that has become overrated in hindsight. Although he was a remarkable player, LeBron James has one of the best absolute peaks of any player ever. If you look at LeBrons numbers and what he had to overcome in these playoffs it is truly remarkable. There really hasn't been anyone that has dominated the way LeBron has EVER. Every time LeBrons team was down in the playoffs he responded with a SIGNATURE performance.

Defensively is a big difference as well. Hill has become a good defender in his later years, but when he was younger he wasn't really good at all. LeBron is the marquee defensive player in the league at his position on top of being a guy that could potentially average 30-10-10. He is just amazing. Elite scoring, passing, and rebounding.

[KG215]

Grant Hill is a player that has become overrated in hindsight. Although he was a remarkable player, LeBron James has one of the best absolute peaks of any player ever. If you look at LeBrons numbers and what he had to overcome in these playoffs it is truly remarkable. There really hasn't been anyone that has dominated the way LeBron has EVER. Every time LeBrons team was down in the playoffs he responded with a SIGNATURE performance.


Every time? Hyperbole much? You could at least say he had a good game or something and not accentuate signature to put it over the top.

[Smoke117]

Grant Hill wasn't even better than Scottie Pippen at his peak and mainly because of what Shaqattack said (he was nothing special defensively on his days as a Piston) not to mention Grant Hill was basically put into the ideal situation under Doug Collins that Pippen never was: He was basically given the ball and allowed to do whatever the hell he wanted to do with it. Notice in 2000 his rebounding and assist are at an all time low besides his rookie season. As Hill took on a bigger scoring role he couldn't also keep up with the other parts of his game. You don't really see that as something that Lebron has lost as his scoring went up though it went up immediately, but I also think he could be much better rebounder than he has been through out his career. Either way, Lebron takes this easily obviously and this is one of those: why even make this thread type questions.

[Shade8780]

Is this some kind of joke? :lol

Successful troll is successful.
:lol at out of all people, you are calling someone a troll.

[D.J.]

Going solely by skill set, it's very close. Both guys were excellent scorers, good rebounders, and good passers. Both could fill a box score easily and record triple-doubles.

In actuality, it's not close at all. LeBron is more efficient and provides more intangibles. LeBron has also become a very good man defender. His help D is still the better of the two, but he's made strides to improve his overall D. While Hill was never a terrible defender, he was never a great defender. He was average, slightly above average.

Hill also wasn't clutch at all. He tended to fold in tight games and often disappeared in the 4th quarter. Best example was in the 1997 playoffs against Atlanta. Up 2-1 in the series with multiple chances to eliminate Atlanta and couldn't get it done.

But in Hill's defense, we never saw his overall game peak. We saw him peak athletically. At 27, Hill only played 5 seasons. LeBron at 27 played 8 seasons. Hill had less mileage on his legs and had potential to become the best SF not named Larry Bird. Injuries took that away and LeBron has been healthy.

Also in actuality, Hill wasn't even better than Scottie Pippen. Pippen was a bit below Hill as a scorer, but was his equal in terms of playmaking and was light years ahead of him as a defender.

[Money 23]

Hill was just getting to his peak before his injuries crippled him as a player.

His defense is honestly just as good as LeBron's defense ... not in terms of versatility (LeBron's size allows him to do that) ... but the man defense is just as good.

Early in Hill's career might not have been the same caliber scorer as Bron, but he also played in a league that didn't hand out free-throws to increase PPG numbers.

He was hitting 27 / 28 ppg the year before his ankle injury murked his career.

So I will say Hill is a poor man's LeBron, but he's not near as far off from him in terms of overall impact as some LeBron stans in this thread would lead you believe.

[D.J.]

His defense is honestly just as good as LeBron's defense ... not in terms of versatility (LeBron's size allows him to do that) ... but the man defense is just as good.


LeBron is the better man defender. Not light years better, but clearly better. Help D is a clear LeBron advantage. Hill was only a slightly above average defender at best



Early in Hill's career might not have been the same caliber scorer as Bron, but he also played in a league that didn't hand out free-throws to increase PPG numbers.


He was a better mid-range shooter, but wasn't able to attack the hoop like LeBron.



He was hitting 27 / 28 ppg the year before his ankle injury murked his career.


He was scoring more, but other aspects of his game suffered.



So I will say Hill is a poor man's LeBron, but he's not near as far off from him in terms of overall impact as some LeBron stans in this thread would lead you believe.


The difference is noticable. LeBron simply impacts games much more than Hill ever did.

[tmacattack33]

Lebron, definitely.

But the gap isn't so huge. And if you say it is, you are not giving props to Lebron so much as dissing Hill.

Peak Grant Hill would be vying for the second best player in the game along with Durant right now.

[tmacattack33]

Every time? Hyperbole much? You could at least say he had a good game or something and not accentuate signature to put it over the top.

They were down three times this year. Indiana Game 4, Boston Game 6, and OKC game 2. Two of those were classic performances, and the other was a very nice performance. So, it really isn't much of a hyperbole, you just have to realize what games he was talking about.

[Psileas]

In the recent poll about the greatest peaks, LeBron's 2009-12 period was voted the "6th greatest of all time" over Kareem's, Russell's, Magic's and Bird's. I didn't keep up with the discussion of every topic, but I guess that Grant Hill got 0 mentions and he'd probably still be at 0 even if the project was extended to top-20.
Not that most ISHers are authorities on the matter, but it's still not close.

[fsvr54]

Hill never reached his peak.

[LikeABosh]

Did Grant Hill ever even have a peak?

[Bandito]

Lebron. What did Grant Hill do better than Bron? Besides bone a hot female like Tamia. :bowdown:
Only for that I would consider Grant Hill better than Lebron by a lot.

[KG215]

In the recent poll about the greatest peaks, LeBron's 2009-12 period was voted the "6th greatest of all time" over Kareem's, Russell's, Magic's and Bird's. I didn't keep up with the discussion of every topic, but I guess that Grant Hill got 0 mentions and he'd probably still be at 0 even if the project was extended to top-20.
Not that most ISHers are authorities on the matter, but it's still not close.

Yeah, but that poll became a joke once Kobe got voted in at #5. Still, I can see a case for LeBron's peak in the 7-10 range. Wouldn't put him ahead of the 1-4 guys in that poll, nor wold I put him ahead of Kareem, Bird, Russell and maybe Magic...yet.

[bizil]

I give the nod to Lebron. But at the same token, I don't think its a landslide by any stretch of the imagination. In terms of SF's who have point forward skills, great rebounders (for a SF) great defense, and very good-great scoring, Bron, Pippen, Hill, and Hondo are as good as it gets. So Hill indeed was a great one before the injuries. But Bron is the better passer, scorer, and defender. Even though Hill isn't far behind Bron in any of those aspects. Plus Bron is the most freakish athlete the league has seen considering his size (6'8 and 260-270 pounds) and athletic ability as a combo. It's almost as if Bron is the evolution to Hill's style of play.

However, Hill still had upside to his game that we never got to experience. U gotta realize the injury bug hit Hill at 27 years of age, the exact age Bron is today. Hill would have been the standard at SF that Bron would have had to meet head on in classic wars if not for the injuries. Hill was only 29 or 30 when Bron first hit the L. If not for injuries, those two would have been vying for SF supremacy. Bron most likely would have elicpsed him, but Hill would established his legacy as top 10 GOAT SF minimum. Hill, Penny, and T Mac all could have shook up the GOAT SF, PG, or SG debates big time if it wasn't for those damn injuries.

[plowking]

Peak Grant Hill would be vying for the second best player in the game along with Durant right now.

No he wouldn't, since he never did in his own era either.

Lebron, Durant, CP3, Rose, Howard, etc are all better. He wasn't even better than Penny Hardaway at the time they were playing.

Penny was a better pre-Lebron-mini-Lebron type player than Hill was.

[tmacattack33]

No he wouldn't, since he never did in his own era either.

Lebron, Durant, CP3, Rose, Howard, etc are all better. He wasn't even better than Penny Hardaway at the time they were playing.

Penny was a better pre-Lebron-mini-Lebron type player than Hill was.

That's because his era included MJ, Shaq, Malone and David Robinson all playing at high level. As well as Penny as you mentioned.

In 99, after MJ was gone and David Robinson's play had fallen off, I'm sure he was discussed as a top 3 player behind Shaq and Malone.

Last year, Dwight and Rose were hurt, and Wade sucked (he was also hurt, by not as seriously). Paul was not as impressive as he could have been either. So there was a big whole there behind Lebron that those guys previously had filled.

If prime Hill was playing, he would have been there with Durant.

[Bigsmoke]

Hill never reached his peak.

he was already like 28 before getting bit by the injury bug.

players usually reach their primes at around that age.

[Dragonyeuw]

I think Hill in terms of skill level is fairly comparable, in a few ways perhaps even more refined. In terms of overall impact on the court though, it really isn't close. Lebron especially the last 4 years has reached a level that Grant Hill never sniffed. He was never the scorer or defender Lebron is, and can't impose his will on the game physically like a determined Lebron can. Rebounding and passing/playmaking for others is probably the areas in which there's at least a reasonable level of comparison.

[arifgokcen]

I remember watching peak hill.Every aspect of his game aside from help defense was as good as lebron.The problem wasnt really the injuries or his athletic ability.He can be as good of a rebounder or scorer or distributer or defender as lebron.However the problem is when he scores other parts of his game suffered.When he tried to be point forward he struggled to score.Lebron basically gives you everything every night.From peak hill one night you will get fantastic defense other night scoring or rebounding and dishing out.However he never put it all together.

As for comparison sake lebron peak is already top 10 and we already witnessed one of the greatest peaks of all time and if he can keep up this pace(though i doubt it) for another 3 years we could possible call this peak the best peak of all time.

If we list the peaks of all players hill peak wouldnt even be top 10 among active players.Thats how far along they are on the peak scale

[Dragonyeuw]

I remember watching peak hill.Every aspect of his game aside from help defense was as good as lebron.The problem wasnt really the injuries or his athletic ability.He can be as good of a rebounder or scorer or distributer or defender as lebron.However the problem is when he scores other parts of his game suffered.When he tried to be point forward he struggled to score.Lebron basically gives you everything every night.From peak hill one night you will get fantastic defense other night scoring or rebounding and dishing out.However he never put it all together.



Was never as dangerous a scorer. Was never as versatile defensively. What you said is precisely why it's not really a close comparison. Hill has certain aspects that are 'comparable' ( I happen to think he's at least equal as a rebounder), but Lebron can impact the game in so many ways when he's on without a particular aspect of his individual game suffering.