To the people who think Bird was a better passer than Lebron....

[pauk]

...i am gona end those thoughts right now if you dont mind....

Before i start keep in mind that Larry Bird is one of my top 3 favorite players of all time. The only agenda here is nothing but the truth based on only factual exhibits and for the reason of simply respect for the damn game & its players...

Alright... first of all...

Lebron was the first 6'8"+ drafted "PG/SG" since Magic Johnson: http://www.thedraftreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=662

For a big reason as all scouting reports said even before he joined the NBA:

"Shows unbelievable ability when it comes to passing the ball. Simply has that uncanny court vision and knack for seeing plays develop before they occur."

"Has unbeliavable ballhandling for his size."

"His vision and passing skills are what sets him apart. A player with his combination of size, and point guard skills is very rare. The only player to have this in the past was Magic Johnson. There are no more than 5 players in the NBA that have the vision and passing skills of LeBron (2003)"

"NBA Comparasion: Magic Johnson"

Lebron has played/started Point-Guard in the NBA alot of times and will still do it when asked from the coach. When he plays the Point-Guard position, he not only plays it because he can, but he can do it actually better than any Point-Guard in the NBA in actually any facit of the game... as evident of his productions & wins during anytime he started Point-Guard... as a Point-Guard his assists blow up to amazing & consistent heights, while still maintaining his all-round play & productions.... One example is in his Cavs season 2010 (where he averaged 8.6 APG), during the time Mo Williams was injured Lebron started the PG position 13 games in a row and produced like this:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Untitled-2-2.png

That is:
31.7 PPG
7.3 RPG
11.6 APG
12 wins, 1 loss

Larry Bird averaged 6.3 APG for his career
Lebron James averages 6.9 APG for his career

Larry Birds highest average was 7.6 APG
Lebron James highest average was 8.6 APG (which is the highest assist average in NBA history by a SF and a non-PG)

Lebron James is also on a pace to become the first Non-PG to be on the Top 10 All-Time assist leaders list.... this is a 100% guarantee he will, unless someone shoots him.

What you see upstairs is something Larry Bird wasnt able to do as a passer due to the lack of overall pointguard skills... and as you can see Lebron was a more productive passer than Larry Bird was, he had greater ballhandling ability/pointguard skills aswell which overall allowed him to even further exploit that passing ability & court vision, which resulted in finding more passing angles where he could dish out even more as he could move with the ball wherever to whatever spot better....... which resulted in him actually being only the 2nd 6'8"+ guy allowed with trust to start the PG position in the NBA ever (2nd ofcourse to only Magic and Magic was by far the bets passer ever, its not a coincidence)....


PASSING SKILLS HIGHLIGHTS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scb53J8dkIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCx8atwHxXM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx5lTh3oWLQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooEELfpn2C8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPr3NNGL_fg

and alot more....

If you have seen enough games of Lebron what you will realize is that besides the fact of him doing a better job than Bird of dishing the ball is that he also moves the ball better to so many key spots on the floor with such precision and impeccable timing throughout the course of the games. When you take into consideration the situation in which his assists are delivered, the timing, how accurate it is, how quickly it flies and how intelligent it was... you will then realize how special it is, he will in some cases deliver the ball before even his teammate knew he was open.

Larry Bird could also do this but to a somewhat lesser assembly and mostly from stationary situations, he simply was a pure scoring SF that was unselfish and loved to make the flashy pass... he possessed amazing passing & vision...

My point is, Lebron & Larry were the two best non-PG passers in NBA history..... but if you want to call somebody better in that department then the answer is more safer by saying Lebron James rather than Larry Bird due to the verifiable evidence....

Even if you refuse to recognize this right now due to whatever agenda, you will recognize this when Lebrons career is over.... Until then, sit back and enjoy seeing Lebron dishing much more of some of the best passes in NBA history and dishing himself ALL assist records as a Non-PG...... which probably no Non-PG will ever be able to touch after he retires....


Over and out...

http://gifsoup.com/view3/4116430/lebron-between-legs-pass-o.gif
http://i.minus.com/iqLZL6TgbdHhG.gif
http://i42.tinypic.com/v59xe8.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zozj6ftg1roog4vo1_500.gif
http://gifsoup.com/view1/4116509/lebron-eyes-behind-his-head-o.gif

[stallionaire]

No shit. Anyone who thinks Bird was a better passer is an absolute retard.

[tmacattack33]

I can't say I've watched many Bird games...and i probably havent watched any of his regular games...only the classics that they show on ESPN Classic and NBA TV.

So I can't say. And even if I did watch him play, it'd still probably be hard to say who was better with it. I mean, we would be trying to differentiate between the player in the 99.8th percentile and the player in the 99.7th percentile or whatever.

But yeah, Lebron's a ridiculously good passer. I was especially impressed with how he proved to be our best facilitator on team USA over Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

[ChuckOakley]

Not sure what a 13 game sample of LBJ playing PG has to do with who the better passer is.
LBJ is a better PG because of his ball handling, speed, muscle, athleticism, and the fact he has specifically played full time point guard. Bird was arguably the better/more creative passer.

[Money 23]

Bird was just as good. And did it without having to dribble as much. His touch passes were a thing of abosulte beauty. Not to say LeBron sucks, but Bird is right there with him.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



/thread

[Whoah10115]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



/thread



Is correct.



Larry Bird is the better passer and it's pretty obvious. People is dumb.

[NumberSix]

LeBron passes a good ball.

[DatAsh]

I don't think people are neccesarily saying that Larry would make a better point guard when they refer to him as the better passer. They're referring to the actual act of passing the ball in and of itself, and Larry definately has an argument for being better in that department. Lebron would make a better pg than Larry because of his superior ball-handling and penetration skills, but when it comes to actually passing the basketball, the two are very close, and I don't think you can definitively say that Lebron is better. When push comes to shove, Larry is probably a top five passer ever.

[Whoah10115]

I don't think people are neccesarily saying that Larry would make a better point guard when they refer to him as the better passer. There referring to the actual act of passing the ball in and of itself, and Larry definately has an argument for being better in that department. Lebron would make a better pg than Larry because of his superior ball-handling and penetration skills, but when it comes to actually passing the basketball, the two are very close, and I don't think you can definitively say that Lebron is better. When push comes to shove, Larry is probably a top five passer ever.


Bird is definitively better.

[RaininTwos]

I honestly don't know. Passing is one those skills that really cannot be compared that well when it's this close. I don't understand why people pretend there is such a huge gap between them though, it's clear Lebron is a great passer.

[pauk]

I don't think people are neccesarily saying that Larry would make a better point guard when they refer to him as the better passer. There referring to the actual act of passing the ball in and of itself, and Larry definately has an argument for being better in that department. Lebron would make a better pg than Larry because of his superior ball-handling and penetration skills, but when it comes to actually passing the basketball, the two are very close, and I don't think you can definitively say that Lebron is better. When push comes to shove, Larry is probably a top five passer ever.



Not sure what a 13 game sample of LBJ playing PG has to do with who the better passer is.
LBJ is a better PG because of his ball handling, speed, muscle, athleticism, and the fact he has specifically played full time point guard. Bird was arguably the better/more creative passer.

I have over 100 games with Larry Bird on vhs/dvd/xvid/mpeg/divx and what not and seen maybe more, but i have seen just as many and probably more of Lebron games, i can tell you right now personally two things which is absolutely 100% sure in my mind...

1. Lebron & Larry were the best passing non-PGs i ever seen, not even close.

2. In terms of passing creativity alone its very close, but to say Bird was better at that is wrong, especially when considering Lebron was able to factually do more of that due to what his overall pointguard skills allowed him to, it allowed/allows Lebron to utilize his passing ability to a bigger extent as Larry Bird didnt have those pointguard skills, it presented even more unique passing angles and creative passes. Now you maybe understand what it has to do with who the better passer is... With my own eyes, I have seen a couple of passes Bird couldnt make which Lebron could (i can show you if you wish) and i have seen none of Birds which Lebron couldnt duplicate.

..and oh, Larry Bird is definitely on my top 5/top10 in terms of passing creativity alone, but guess what, so is Lebron.

[Money 23]

I honestly don't know. Passing is one those skills that really cannot be compared that well when it's this close. I don't understand why people pretend there is such a huge gap between them though, it's clear Lebron is a great passer.
The only one insinuating there is a gap is the thread creator.

No one is saing LeBron ISN'T a great passer. Why aren't you critiquing pauk?

And why do you stay hating past generation of players you unfortunately didn't get to watch in context?

[DatAsh]

Bird is definitively better.

I'm inclined to agree, but I was trying to stay objective and somewhat reasonable.

[Freedom Kid7]

Pauk, don't use stats to use your point. That's not fair or logical. LeBron's numbers will decrease once his peak ends, and with the way he's played throughout the playoffs and the year I don't know if his passing skills will be utilized like they were in Cleveland.

Also, if you do want to go off numbers, Peak Bird had a better AST/TO ratio in his peak than Peak LeBron did (I'm counting both '09 and '12), and had a better AST/TO for all his playoff games than LeBron did.

I'm not gonna discredit LeBron though. He is a good passer for a guy like him, but Bird was a better passer overall.

[CavaliersFTW]

Pauk, don't use stats to use your point. That's not fair or logical. LeBron's numbers will decrease once his peak ends, and with the way he's played throughout the playoffs and the year I don't know if his passing skills will be utilized like they were in Cleveland.

Also, if you do want to go off numbers, Peak Bird had a better AST/TO ratio in his peak than Peak LeBron did (I'm counting both '09 and '12), and had a better AST/TO for all his playoff games than LeBron did.

I'm not gonna discredit LeBron though. He is a good passer for a guy like him, but Bird was a better passer overall.

Using Pauk's "passing and efficiency" priorities against him :applause: :oldlol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Morton_Ether_1846.jpg/800px-Morton_Ether_1846.jpg

[RaininTwos]

The only one insinuating there is a gap is the thread creator.

No one is saing LeBron ISN'T a great passer. Why aren't you critiquing pauk?

And why do you stay hating past generation of players you unfortunately didn't get to watch in context?
Let's see:
1) I didn't criticize pauk, becuase he's not going to change his opinion...that's what trolls do.
2)When I said people, I wasn't just referring to sentiments shared in this thread. I was speaking in general.
3)I didn't say one negative thing about Bird in that post, how am I hating?

[TheBigVeto]

Bird is a better passer. But the gap is not big.

[Cali Syndicate]

Bird was never even close to the PG ball dominant player Lebron is FYI.

All time leading assist leader for a non PG but thing is Lebron basically is a PG. Call him a point forward all you want but he embodies the style of play of a PG more than any player on any of his teams.

[Money 23]

3)I didn't say one negative thing about Bird in that post, how am I hating?
You have a subtext in all your posts regarding comparisons to past ball players. I've seen it for years, man.

I've never heard ANYONE in general say LeBron isn't a great passer, or one of the all-time greats at the skill of passing.

If anything that's what he was praised for relentlessly coming out of H.S. Hell, he's still praised for it to this day.

LeBron's passing ability and willingness to distribute is the defining difference of him as a superstar and consequently of his generation of players. Even more striking of ability considering LeBron leads a generation that followed the most selfish wannabe MJ generation, which simply wanted to chuck shots to mimmick his Airness.

It's what seperates him from many recent superstars of the past 15 - 20 years.

[28renyoy]

Andre Miller>LeBron as a passer. He averaged 10.8 apg for a season and has a higher career apg average

[KG215]

Yeah, better PG does not equal better passer. More APG does not equal better passer. I'm not saying Bird is the better passer but the reasoning you use is flawed, as is often the case.

[Round Mound]

"PURE" Passing...Bird is Better

Lebron is a Better "CREATOR" of Offense cause of his Superior Handles and Driving Ability Athletic Ability too...Causing The Defense to Close On Him...Thereby Leaving Other of His Teamates Open.

[RaininTwos]

You have a subtext in all your posts regarding comparisons to past ball players. I've seen it for years, man.

You are making an argument out of nothing, there wasn't any subtext at all.

[Jacks3]

Maybe hes a better play-maker due to the superior ball-handling and much greater athleticism, which means he can break down defenses with the dribble to a greater extent. Do more drive & kick, run the P/R, etc.

But passing? As in vision, instinct, skill, creativity? Bird is easily better.

Not even close.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ

And I say this as someone who considers Bron to be the better overall player.

[Myth]

http://i.minus.com/iqLZL6TgbdHhG.gif

Overrated pass. Look how Durant has to reach for the ball.

[Money 23]

Overrated pass. Look how Durant has to reach for the ball.
Dude. That is a GREAT pass.

Two handed bounce pass ACROSS THE COURT to lead his man?

[stallionaire]

Overrated pass. Look how Durant has to reach for the ball.

He barely reaches for the pass. Shut up.

[tmacattack33]

Overrated pass. Look how Durant has to reach for the ball.

Yeah, the ball could have been thrown a little more accurately physically maybe.

The great part of the play (and of most great passes) was Lebron's vision in finding Durant there in the first place.

Great passers seem to be able to see the future, and they know when a player will be open even before it even happens. And that is where most of their greatness lies.

[BuGzBuNNy]

I have a feeling the other thread might be deleted so I'll put my post from that one in here:

The zip that Lebron regularly puts on the ball is unmatched as far as I'm concerned...his passes "get there", and on target. The value of that can't go unspoken. My favorite passes from him are the one's he throws across the width of the court to someone open that had he not zipped the ball the way he did he wouldn't have looked so wide open because the defender would have had time to get to the guy before the shot.

I can think of one in particular that he threw to James Jones in the corner in that Christmas game vs LA even though he missed the shot, but I can't find it. Here's an example in the video that someone else linked in this thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooEELfpn2C8&t=0m25s

[Money 23]

Yeah, the ball could have been thrown a little more accurately physically maybe.
Not really. Notice the defender lunging for it and coming close. LeBron led Durant perfectly.

[RaininTwos]

Sarcasm detectors must be in disrepair on this forum.:lol

[G-train]

Overrated pass. Look how Durant has to reach for the ball.

That's not an overrated pass.
That is a brilliant pass by any measure.

[tmacattack33]

Not really. Notice the defender lunging for it and coming close. LeBron led Durant perfectly.

True.

Regardless, the best part of that pass was his vision in knowing he was there and that a pass could have been made.

And what the gif doesn't even show is that before Lebron got the ball, there had just been like 2-3 failed fast-breaks back and forth between the teams and everything was getting out of hand. Probably 99% of players would have just caught the ball and proceeded to dribble and "slow it down"...maybe even dribbling the ball backwards a few times and waiting for everyone to clear before proceeding to bring the ball up the court.

[BlackVVaves]

Higher assists per game equate superior passing skills?

So Andre Miller is a better passer than Larry Bird than, according to Pauk logic? No wait, I need to insert some highlights from YouTube and provide links to basketball reference before I can give it the pauk stamp.

The gap between the two is slim, if not completely non-existent. However, per usual, the lining of your logic as to why the gap is small (or why one is better than another) is faulty.

[chazzy]

I've noticed pauk's go-to description when belittling Lebron's competition is the term "pure scoring" and he actually used it on Larry Bird! :lol

[Pushxx]

I'll take Bird's passing ability and court vision.

[get these NETS]

Higher assists per game equate superior passing skills?

So Andre Miller is a better passer than Larry Bird than, according to Pauk logic? .


bird and lebron play th same position

andre miller plays pg


stop hugging bird's nuts and pay attention to what dude wrote

[arifgokcen]

This is a tough one.We have two sides.Lebron is one of the best passers however in terms of creativity i think bird has the edge though thats not saying much because.Both are truly exceptional.Another point is bird was never a PG.He just didnt have the tools for that.

So i think if we are looking for a PG i would say definitely lebron however if you want something out of the post position or in the half court i would say bird.

However with all that being said i would want lebron as my distributor because lebron can pass out of the post too but bird couldnt play PG even for stretches.

[get these NETS]

not sure how many years Bird played with DJ but from that point on....Bird might have thrown some great passes here and there but that was never his main responsibility.

Bron has been the best passer on every team he's been on....has primarily run the offense and has NEVER played with a pg of DJ's caliber

Bird was a high volume scorer with superior clutch ability...he had pg level vision and passing ability but that was more of a bonus to what his team needed from him

Bron exhibits pg level passing ability and vision and that's a key part of his game,,he's taken criticism throughout his career for finding WIDE open teammates for layups rather than taking contested shots

[bdreason]

I feel like LeBron is a better open court player and passer, while Bird was a better improvisational passer.

[SHAQisGOAT]

You're simply unproving your point by saying LeBron plays more PG and he's more of a PG than Bird :facepalm ... No sh*t, he has better handles (not that Bird didn't have it) plus he's obviously more athletic, Bird didn't have the lateral quickness to be PG.

LeBron has had much more ball-handling duties than Bird, easier to get more assists that way.
Larry at most played point forward, almost never brought the ball up court, plus he played with real PG's and at least good passers, in Tiny, DJ, Ainge, Henderson plus guys like Walton, even McHale.
Bird did most of his passing from the SF position, or from the post, even on fastbreaks, he worked more as a playmaker and starter rather than a PG, he didn't have to possess the ball too much to have big passing numbers.

Plus you think that it takes more to drive and dish (like LeBron does many times) than to pass from a stationary position like Larry did? lol

And LeBron has played with great 3pt spot shooters throughout his career, he always draws the double team when driving, easy to kick it to the outside, Bird didn't work with much of that.

Bird has much less USG% than LeBron and also played less minutes for his career right now, much less ball-handling duties/time.
LeBron one of my favorite players right now but he's not a better passer than Bird.

I can also show great highlights of Bird, better imo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A - His long passes are just unmatched in the history of the NBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

[SHAQisGOAT]

Andre Miller>LeBron as a passer. He averaged 10.8 apg for a season and has a higher career apg average


LOL, seriously :lol

[andgar923]

I already said why Bron isn't as great, but I'll repeat it.

Bron takes too long to pass in comparison, he telegraphs his passes much more, can be indecisive very often, and to be honest is very predictable. He also doesn't come close in reading the defense like Bird does. Bird is quicker and more decisive at reading the defense, his reactions and execution are instantaneous far more than Bron's.

Not to say Bron isn't a great passer, just not as good when compared to Bird and a few others.

[noosaman]

Lebron is perhaps the best passer in the closing minutes of a game, LOL.

[BlackVVaves]

bird and lebron play th same position

andre miller plays pg


stop hugging bird's nuts and pay attention to what dude wrote

:roll: shut up kid. No really, just shut up. :oldlol: Pauk would use the same logic if comparing Bron to a shooting guard, as he has before.

Get a clue :sleeping

[LakersReign]

AND....yet again, pauk proves exactly why reasonable NBA fans don't take pathetic know nothing about basketball before '03 bandwagon Lebron fans, seriously. The idiot can't stand to hear people say Lebron sucks at something, so he has to try and belittle or discredit other great players, in comparison to him, to try and make him look good. Then turn right around and try to say how great Lebron supposed is. Hilarious:rolleyes:

[Bandito]

Lebron is perhaps the best passer in the closing minutes of a game, LOL.
best as in the most willing then yes he is:lol

[dunksby]

I've noticed pauk's go-to description when belittling Lebron's competition is the term "pure scoring" and he actually used it on Larry Bird! :lol
"Pure scorer" and "pure shooter" are his favorite backhanded compliments :lol
I wish they kept a stat for the amount of time a player possesses the ball so we could have less idiotic claims by LeBronytes or Melo fanboys.

[Blue&Orange]

I thought this was a joke thread, then i saw the first two posts, and i realized it's an handicap thread.

If we gave Lebron, Larry Bird's body, does Lebron even play in the NBA?

[28renyoy]

"Pure scorer" and "pure shooter" are his favorite backhanded compliments :lol
I wish they kept a stat for the amount of time a player possesses the ball so we could have less idiotic claims by LeBronytes or Melo fanboys.

welcome to pauk. foreigners are a complete joke when it comes to american sports, they just dick ride their favorite player like no other.

[Champ]

Both are great passers.

Like Magic, Lebron has the edge in passing in the open court and on the break, while Bird was the better/more creative passer in the half court set.

As someone noted before, Lebron might pass the ball with more zip than anyone in NBA history, while Bird might be among the most ambidextrous passers ever.

Bird was also a tremendous inbound passer and outlet passer, two subtler elements of his passing game that are often overlooked.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird was also a tremendous inbound passer and outlet passer, two subtler elements of his passing game that are often overlooked.

He was like quarterback out there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A

[coin24]

Bird >>>>>>>>> Bronzey...


Pauk = Retard

[oolalaa]

I don't know what the op said - I ignored that clown a while a go - but, from what I can gather, it stats, stats, stats, and more stats. I'm guessing he didn't mention how insanely ball dominant Lebron is, how he brings the ball up the floor infinitely more than Bird ever did, and how he hovers around the key with the ball for approximately half of his posessions. Larry Bird always had a very good point guard who could handle the point, allowing Bird to set up on the elbow. Bird also didn't get the benefit of the large number of 'slash & kick' assists that Lebron gets every game. Lebron is FAR more ball dominant, and passes the ball FAR more than Bird ever did.

Yeh, Lebron spreads the floor better than Bird, but no forward in history dished out more 'guaranteed bucket passes' than Bird. I don't care what the stats say, on pure passing ability it's not close. It's Bird all day, every day and 33 times on Sunday.

[pauk]

What ive seen is nothing but opinions due to various agendas.... ofcourse, there is no factual data to prove that Larry Bird WAS a better passer....

To say that Lebron is in no shape or form a better passer than Larry Bird is the most ludicrious thing i ever heard based on the verifable exhibits which only points towards only Lebron.... there is zero/nada factual data in terms of visual or stats which can provide Larry Bird being a better passer...

This is absolutely sickening....

THIS IS SOMETHING YOU WILL LOOK BACK AND LAUGH AT WHEN LEBRONS CAREER IS OVER.......... I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT

[BoutPractice]

I guess you can say Bird had better passing ability from the forward position, while LeBron is more comfortable driving and kicking in the mold of a point guard (though he is gradually turning into more of a forward).
The comparison is difficult because both are brilliant passers with no real shortcomings in that aspect of the game...

[KG215]

What ive seen is nothing but opinions due to various agendas.... ofcourse, there is no factual data to prove that Lebron WASNT a better passer....

Seriously, how do you say this stuff with a straight face?

Any argument like this is opinion based. The thread you started was opinion based, regardless if you believe it or not. Just because you go to BBR and post some APG numbers coupled with some cherry-picked Youtube videos and GIFs doesn't make your thread arguing that LeBron is a better passer any less opinion based than this one.

[Kblaze8855]

What ive seen is nothing but opinions due to various agendas.... ofcourse, there is no factual data to prove that Larry Bird WAS a better passer....





You are approaching delete on sight levels of awful posting.

[tpols]

Here's the difference between Bron and birds passing..

LeBron does the moving and passes to his stationary teammates while bird stays stationary and passes to his moving teammates. Bron can break down Ds with ease and just deliver it to the guy whose defender had to help. Bird couldn't do that half as well so his passing was more based on a real team offense where he craftily found caters.

LeBron athleticism is more responsible for his passing capabilities while birds passing is pure skill with little other contributing factors.

[pauk]

Seriously, how do you say this stuff with a straight face?

Any argument like this is opinion based. The thread you started was opinion based, regardless if you believe it or not. Just because you go to BBR and post some APG numbers coupled with some cherry-picked Youtube videos and GIFs doesn't make your thread arguing that LeBron is a better passer any less opinion based than this one.

Opinion based on FACTUAL & AUTHENTICATE words... i backed up anything i said....

Nobody else here did, you only throw insults and disagree

[KG215]

there is zero/nada factual data in terms of visual or stats which can provide Larry Bird being a better passer...
The fact that you use APG numbers in this case and other stats in other arguments as a crutch tells most of us all we need to know about you. More so than probably any other basic stat (PPG, RPG, SPG, BPG) APG is the least indicative of saying someone is/was better than someone else at what that stat represents.

[BuGzBuNNy]

Here's the difference between Bron and birds passing..

LeBron does the moving and passes to his stationary teammates while bird stays stationary and passes to his moving teammates. Bron can break down Ds with ease and just deliver it to the guy whose defender had to help. Bird couldn't do that half as well so his passing was more based on a real team offense where he craftily found caters.

LeBron athleticism is more responsible for his passing capabilities while birds passing is pure skill with little other contributing factors.
This is the best argument I've seen, but I don't want to make it seem like Lebron wouldn't be a good passer w/o his athleticism. He still makes great stationary passes as well.

[KG215]

Opinion based on FACTUAL & AUTHENTICATE words... i backed up anything i said....

Nobody else here did, you only throw insults and disagree

You used APG numbers and like a 13 game stretch where LeBron was the primary PG in Cleveland when Mo Williams was hurt. Neither of which actually prove he is a better passer than Bird.

[pauk]

Jesus Christ... you know what? I give up... if you cant see the obvious which is right infront of your eyes where visually & statistically and in any other way showing Lebron being a better passer, then i cant help you...

You are poor stubborn souls that just simply disrespects the game of basketball right now, i hope you people realise that...

Obviously at this point your nostalgic feelings towards the past and loathing for Lebron is to much..... When Lebrons career is nearing to an end or when it ends, you will look upon yourself in disgust for thinking Bird was a better passer, especially with the zero verifable data in existance which can prove anything otherwise....

So i give up, i will let your stubborn minds be at peace.... Larry Bird was a better passer and Lebron is horrible.... and oh i am horrible poster to.... i hope you are a happy and can sleep better at night....

[Kblaze8855]

Ive been here since 2001....and you would without question make the short list of the worst posters ive ever seen. The only thing that would keep you out of that worst of the worst is making an honest effort to explain yourself and not just....generally being a dick.

For people I believe are serious and act somewhat like adults....you contend with the worst ive seen in over 10 years.

[tpols]

Ive been here since 2001....and you would without question make the short list of the worst posters ive ever seen. The only thing that would keep you out of that worst of the worst is making an honest effort to explain yourself and not just....generally being a dick.

For people I believe are serious and act somewhat like adults....you contend with the worst ive seen in over 10 years.
:roll:ether

[KG215]

Jesus Christ... you know what? I give up... if you cant see the obvious which is right infront of your eyes where visually & statistically and in any other way showing Lebron being a better passer, then i cant help you...
You thinking it's a "no-brainer" in LeBron's decision is just as silly and absurd as other thinking there's a huge gap between Bird and LeBron.


You are poor stubborn souls that just simply disrespects the game of basketball right now, i hope you people realise that...

Right, got it. If we don't agree with pauk then we are disrespecting the game of basketball. Thank you for setting us all straight.


Obviously at this point your nostalgic feelings towards the past and loathing for Lebron is to much..... When Lebrons career is nearing to an end or when it ends, you will look upon yourself in disgust for thinking Bird was a better passer, especially with the zero verifable data in existance which can prove anything otherwise....
I highly doubt it. I don't think anyone is going to be kicking themselves and saying "I can't believe I ever thought Larry Bird was just as good of a passer as LeBron" after his career is over.

And, again, APG, a string of 12 or 13 games, and some cherry picked Youtube videos are not verifiable data.


So i give up, i will let your stubborn minds be at peace.... Larry Bird was a better passer and Lebron is horrible.... and oh i am horrible poster to.... i hope you are a happy and can sleep better at night....
The people that are saying there's a big gap between Bird and LeBron and LeBron isn't a good passer are trolling. If you can't see that, that's on you.

[LeBird]

Here's the difference between Bron and birds passing..

LeBron does the moving and passes to his stationary teammates while bird stays stationary and passes to his moving teammates. Bron can break down Ds with ease and just deliver it to the guy whose defender had to help. Bird couldn't do that half as well so his passing was more based on a real team offense where he craftily found caters.

LeBron athleticism is more responsible for his passing capabilities while birds passing is pure skill with little other contributing factors.

Short answer 'Yes' with an if, long answer 'No' with a but.

Meaning, sure Bird was stationary; but he also drew multiple defenders and hit the open man too. That's what made Bird a consistently dangerous threat on attack throughout his career - even when his physical prowess waned.

You give Bird an inch, and you heard "swish" a few seconds later. Bird was dangerous without needing to be super-athletic. Defenders didn't know whether to get close to him, which would open up space for a pass to another man; or to hang a bit but risk him getting off a shot. Lebron will really have to fix his shooting to stay a scoring threat in the twilight of his career. Bird during the last few years of his career - even with his back injury - recorded arguably his best season statistically (30/9/6).

Let's be clear: Bird was far far less ball dominant that Lebron yet they have basically the same assist stats. That should tell you that anyone saying Lebron is better on stats, isn't gauging them properly.

[pauk]

You are approaching delete on sight levels of awful posting.

I really thought you were one of the more unbiased, openminded and objective posters Kblaze... guess i was wrong.

What i just did was present to you nothing but legit certainty of factual exhibits which shows you why Lebron was a better passer...... and you have done absolutely nothing to declare those facts wrong except thrown opinions, you know why? Because you cant, there is zero statistically or visual descriptive explanatory which shows why Larry Bird was a better passer as everything can be attested oppositely towards Lebrons favor... why? Because Lebron was a better passer... is it really so hard to digest this? Really?

1. Any assist stat except assist totals (which will very soon be surpassed by Lebron anyways) Lebron stands high above Larry Bird on the pedestal, anything.

2. Any visual/creative pass which Larry Bird has done has been duplicated by Lebron and even much more often, while Lebron has accumulated passes which Bird never did himself...

3. Lebron talent & skill wise has a combination of tools to use those passing skills to even a higher level than Larry Bird... and he does....

Those are facts...

Larry Bird was one of my favorite players of all time, i have over 100 games with him and i can with safety confirm everything....

I love Larry Bird, but unlike you (and many others here) i am true basketball fan and i dont deny what i see.... and what i see and what ALL facts provide is that if anybody was a better passer between Bird & Lebron then it is Lebron........

What you are doing is nothing but posting ignorant comments, what did you hope to achieve with this ignorant comment anyways?

You are just wasting my time................ and the funny thing is, you are not disagreeing with me... you are disagreeing with FACTS.... becuse thats all i provided.... have fun...

[Money 23]

Ive been here since 2001....and you would without question make the short list of the worst posters ive ever seen. The only thing that would keep you out of that worst of the worst is making an honest effort to explain yourself and not just....generally being a dick.

For people I believe are serious and act somewhat like adults....you contend with the worst ive seen in over 10 years.
Best (and shortest) KBlaze post I've seen in my tenure here.

[CavaliersFTW]

Jesus Christ... you know what? I give up... if you cant see the obvious which is right infront of your eyes where visually & statistically and in any other way showing Lebron being a better passer, then i cant help you...
Visually, to many people Bird looks like he's the better passer - and at the absolute worst is perceived as completely equal even from the point of view of other Lebron stans. On a stat sheet, Lebron get's his numbers because he handles the ball more like a PG not because he's a "better passer".


You are poor stubborn souls that just simply disrespects the game of basketball right now, i hope you people realise that...
Classy. Right, we're all the ones being stubborn - every single individual on ISH, not you - your the only one being totally open minded and objective by pushing this agenda


Obviously at this point your nostalgic feelings towards the past and loathing for Lebron is to much..... When Lebrons career is nearing to an end or when it ends, you will look upon yourself in disgust for thinking Bird was a better passer, especially with the zero verifable data in existance which can prove anything otherwise....
:facepalm Nobody in this thread is loathing Lebron. Hell, call me an angry Cavs fan all you want but even I love watching Lebron still - he plays a lot like Oscar Robertson and Elgin Baylor two of my personal old-school favs. Plus, he's fresh off his championship, most people are riding Lebron's success now a days not hating on him. What's really sad right now is that your equating this:

"I'm not convinced that Lebron is a superior passer to Larry Bird"

with

"OMG I f*cking hate Lebron he sucks!!!!!!!!111"


So i give up, i will let your stubborn minds be at peace.... Larry Bird was a better passer and Lebron is horrible.... and oh i am horrible poster to.... i hope you are a happy and can sleep better at night....Our minds are at peace, we're all unanimously confident with our opinions ranging from Bird being no less than Lebron's equal (at worst), to actually being slightly-moderately better than Lebron because he's the greatest non-guard passer of all time (at best). Seeing as how this clearly doesn't sit well with you, your mind seems to be the one that isn't at peace. :oldlol: @ you believing your opinion effected anyone's ability to sleep here. Actually though, I can easily picture you tossing and turning all night thinking about how nobody on ISH believes Lebron is a better passer than Bird

[po3try]

I to have a problem with how some people dont see what is infront of their eyes.

Not only does Lebron inflict more assists and higher assist averages but his passing skills are far greater than Larry Bird. Let me try to explain.

For any great passer, the more of the floor you allow them to see, the better odds they’ll see the pass they need to make. Because LeBron is such a perimeter-oriented player, the defense is at a catch-22 with him. The smaller perimeter guys are the only ones quick enough to stay with him until he bumps them out of position. And bigger defenders are too slow and worried about him driving to the basket. This means they have to play off of LeBron and it gives him a great view of the floor.

What makes LeBron such a great passer (outside of his vision) is his strength. James is so strong that it’s merely a flick of the wrists and a pop of his hands to fire a pass 25 feet on a straight line, this the type of passing Larry Bird didnt have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np9rBLUtP3w&feature=player_embedded

On this play against Dallas to start the season, Marion is playing off of LeBron (partly because LeBron is 30 feet from the basket but also because of the driving capabilities) and it gives LeBron an open view of the floor.

As Wade comes across the lane and plants in front of the basket (something every coach tells you to do), LeBron has enough room and strength to fire the pass in there before Delonte West can recover and pick it off.

Another way in which LeBron is so good at picking apart defenses is his passing out of the post. With today’s help defense rules and schemes almost completely taking away straight-up post play, patient passing out of the post is key.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cetUQ8luyXk&feature=player_embedded

LeBron watches the help defense set up shop. His teammates know that as soon as their defender turns toward LeBron, they can cut down the lane if a third defender isn’t shading the basket. That’s exactly what Udonis Haslem does here with Roy Hibbert hanging around Joel Anthony for no reason.

LeBron is a better bounce passer too, which is instrumental in delivering the ball out of the post to cutters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umPTxPYRhuE&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0SRbDKzvWA&feature=player_embedded

I put these two videos together to show you just how special his crosscourt passing is. One of the biggest parts about being a gifted passer in the NBA is willingness to pass. There are times in which we see stars (LeBron included) force up shots on drives where there isn’t much daylight.

On these two plays, LeBron’s drives are almost completely designed to set up the shooters in the corners with Miami. He uses himself as his own decoy for the defense, knowing they’ll suck in to take away whatever shot he might put up. This is something Larry Bird was not better at than Lebron either.

There are only a few players (Magic Johnson in particular) that could rival LeBron’s crosscourt passing ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhXr7gOFBPY&feature=player_embedded

There are plays like this in which he dissects your halfcourt defense by being patient enough to wait for guys to be open under the hoop. When that happens, he can look away and deliver a bounce pass on the money for an easy score.

It leaves defenders wondering who was supposed to defend the player that scored because everyone was rotating over to worry about LeBron.


"LeBron is fantastic," Memphis coach Marc Iavaroni said. "I think he's got more passing ability than Magic [Johnson] because he can put it on a dime and with zip. It's a function of his ability to score. He allows people to get free. He's 6-foot-9, and he can see."

[CavaliersFTW]

I to have a problem with how some people dont see what is infront of their eyes.

Not only does Lebron inflict more assists and highest assist averages but his passing skills far greater than Larry Bird. Let me try to explain.

For any great passer, the more of the floor you allow them to see, the better odds they’ll see the pass they need to make. Because LeBron is such a perimeter-oriented player, the defense is at a catch-22 with him. The smaller perimeter guys are the only ones quick enough to stay with him until he bumps them out of position. And bigger defenders are too slow and worried about him driving to the basket. This means they have to play off of LeBron and it gives him a great view of the floor.

What makes LeBron such a great passer (outside of his vision) is his strength. James is so strong that it’s merely a flick of the wrists and a pop of his hands to fire a pass 25 feet on a straight line, this the type of passing Larry Bird didnt have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np9rBLUtP3w&feature=player_embedded

On this play against Dallas to start the season, Marion is playing off of LeBron (partly because LeBron is 30 feet from the basket but also because of the driving capabilities) and it gives LeBron an open view of the floor.

As Wade comes across the lane and plants in front of the basket (something every coach tells you to do), LeBron has enough room and strength to fire the pass in there before Delonte West can recover and pick it off.

Another way in which LeBron is so good at picking apart defenses is his passing out of the post. With today’s help defense rules and schemes almost completely taking away straight-up post play, patient passing out of the post is key.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cetUQ8luyXk&feature=player_embedded

LeBron watches the help defense set up shop. His teammates know that as soon as their defender turns toward LeBron, they can cut down the lane if a third defender isn’t shading the basket. That’s exactly what Udonis Haslem does here with Roy Hibbert hanging around Joel Anthony for no reason.

LeBron is a better bounce passer too, which is instrumental in delivering the ball out of the post to cutters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umPTxPYRhuE&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0SRbDKzvWA&feature=player_embedded

I put these two videos together to show you just how special his crosscourt passing is. One of the biggest parts about being a gifted passer in the NBA is willingness to pass. There are times in which we see stars (LeBron included) force up shots on drives where there isn’t much daylight.

On these two plays, LeBron’s drives are almost completely designed to set up the shooters in the corners with Miami. He uses himself as his own decoy for the defense, knowing they’ll suck in to take away whatever shot he might put up. This is something Larry Bird was not better at than Lebron either.

There are only a few players (Magic Johnson in particular) that could rival LeBron’s crosscourt passing ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhXr7gOFBPY&feature=player_embedded

There are plays like this in which he dissects your halfcourt defense by being patient enough to wait for guys to be open under the hoop. When that happens, he can look away and deliver a bounce pass on the money for an easy score.

It leaves defenders wondering who was supposed to defend the player that scored because everyone was rotating over to worry about LeBron.


"LeBron is fantastic," Memphis coach Marc Iavaroni said. "I think he's got more passing ability than Magic [Johnson] because he can put it on a dime and with zip. It's a function of his ability to score. He allows people to get free. He's 6-foot-9, and he can see."
Your sockpuppetry isn't fooling anyone Pauk :roll:

[pauk]

[QUOTE=po3try]I to have a problem with how some people dont see what is infront of their eyes.

Not only does Lebron inflict more assists and higher assist averages but his passing skills are far greater than Larry Bird. Let me try to explain.

For any great passer, the more of the floor you allow them to see, the better odds they

[LeBird]

"LeBron is fantastic," Memphis coach Marc Iavaroni said. "I think he's got more passing ability than Magic [Johnson] because he can put it on a dime and with zip. It's a function of his ability to score. He allows people to get free. He's 6-foot-9, and he can see."

Lebron is a wonderful passer. But you must be on crack to suggest he is on the level of Bird and Magic.



Your sockpuppetry isn't fooling anyone Pauk :roll:


I think you got him. LOL

[pauk]

Your sockpuppetry isn't fooling anyone Pauk :roll:

I guess so, anybody who doesnt agree with you and agrees with me must be me.... because clearly you have to be very foolish to think somebody who accumulates better passes at an even higher productivity is not a better passer....

This forum absolutely disgusts me with the amount of posters like you... anything which doesnt support YOUR thought is alienated and looked upon as a fool despite all the factual data which exists which does NOT support your thought... If its gona be like this then my time here is just not necessary... I better leave you people to your own fantasy of thoughts & opinions, anything else doesnt belong on this forum, no matter how factual it is... good riddance..

[Money 23]

Your sockpuppetry isn't fooling anyone Pauk :roll:
:oldlol:

Do you know what gave it away?

"I to have a problem"

The spelling error on the wrong form of "too" that pauk for some reason can't grasp and always butchers in all his posts.

Beyond the fact no one would be that passionately believing the same verbatim opinion as his to type out that much crap, and sound exactly like him in every possible way.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LakersReign]

I guess so, anybody who doesnt agree with you and agrees with me must be me.... because clearly you have to be very foolish to think somebody who accumulates better passes at an even higher productivity is not a better passer....

This forum absolutely disgusts me with the amount of posters like you... anything which doesnt support YOUR thought is alienated and looked upon as a fool despite all the factual data which exists which does NOT support your thought... If its gona be like this then my time here is just not necessary... I better leave you people to your own fantasy of thoughts & opinions, anything else doesnt belong on this forum, no matter how factual it is... good riddance..

Child(pauk) please:rolleyes:

You're(pauk) FINALLY getting a raw, cold, hard dose of your own medicine, and you don't like in much....do you?:lol

That's exactly what ret**ded bandwagon Lebron fans like you do to Laker/Kobe fans on here ALL THE TIME. So STFU, with all that cryin:sleeping

[KG215]

If its gona be like this then my time here is just not necessary... I better leave you people to your own fantasy of thoughts & opinions, anything else doesnt belong on this forum, no matter how factual it is... good riddance..

Good, we can finally agree on something.

And I have no idea how old you are but I hope it's no older than 13 or 14. People don't agree with you their thoughts and opinions are just fantasy and don't belong here? Can you not see that what you presented isn't any less opinion based than anything else? Just because you throw up a BBR screen-cap and APG numbers doesn't mean your argument is rock solid. And of course you saying LeBron has produced the same level of "creative" passes as Bird is 100% opinion.

[tpols]

Good, we can finally agree on something.

And I have no idea how old you are but I hope it's no older than 13 or 14. People don't agree with you their thoughts and opinions are just fantasy and don't be long here? Can you not see that what you presented isn't any less opinion based than anything else? Just because you throw up a BBR screen-cap and APG numbers doesn't mean your argument is rock solid. And of course you saying LeBron has produced the same level of "creative" passes as Bird is 100% opinion.
Reminds me of someone saying deron Williams is a better passer than jkidd based on better apg numbers a while back when kidds vision and ability were literally twice as good and probably the best since magic himself retired.

[KG215]

And for his sake, I truly hope that po3try account isn't an alt account. Because it'd be very pathetic for him to type all that out on another account, quickly log out and back into this pauk account, and quote his post and agree with himself.

Of course an alt account or two or three would explain how he got so much positive rep.

[Money 23]

Of course an alt account or two or three would explain how he got so much positive rep.
Which is the case for TONS of posters on ISH

[get these NETS]

:roll: shut up kid. No really, just shut up. :oldlol: Pauk would use the same logic if comparing Bron to a shooting guard, as he has before.

Get a clue :sleeping

you're a good sport.

don't know dude's history but I saw most of Bird's career and all of Lebron's.

I remember lebron's rookie year and carlos boozer time after time after time after time.....fumbling pinpoint bron passes when he was RIGHT under the rim...like a clown

I would watch the replay and be amazed at the vision and timing that the kid lebron had.....I'd say wow...that's a pass that jason kidd would throw

I'm much more impressed by bron's passing and vision since there have been tons of high volume scorers in modern nba..

[Riley Martin]

If its gona be like this then my time here is just not necessary... I better leave... good riddance..

Please do. You're a roadblock on the highway of unbiased/insightful basketball discussion.

I try to simply skip over your posts, but they're a cancer that affects the entire thread.

[get these NETS]

and to the people saying the give bron bird's body and see how well he does..
hahahhahahahahaah

get off the BULL....Bird and Bron were/are BOTH professional athletes...

Bird is not a little 10 year old boy being compared to a pro athlete......


you can't take anything away from what Bird accomplished but remember.....for prime or bulk of his career he played with 3 other guys who made it to the HOF...and on well balanced teams...he's not passing out of double teams every other play or playing with bozo the clown as his pg ...like early lebron

the steal bird made against isiah and laimbeer.....? DJ was there to catch the pass and make the layup...Bird wasn't playing with chumps

[ballup]

I'm just saying, Pauk spends too much time obsessing over one guy. People would take him more seriously if he wasn't so grotesquely biased. Just based on the starting post, you can tell he's not out to stimulate a healthy debate.

[BlackVVaves]

You know pauk, you always state how much you love Bird, in an attempt to add scarce objectivity to your posts, and yet you consistently make efforts to displace his place in history for Lebron. This isn't the first time at all.

Remember when you tried to convince me that Lebron's 2012 Finals run was better than Bird's 1984 Finals run, making claims such as "Lebron's competition was far better than Bird's competition" to back your argument?

And do you know what you "factual reasoning" was for saying that? That the teams Bron faced (in a shortened lockout season no less) had better winning percentages.

Do you not see how obsessed you are with playing the numbers game? What you do is no different than what you accuse other posters from doing. You ultimately make asinine statements that are essentially opinions that fit within the confinements of your agenda (Lebron is god), and then find any trace of information that you can effectively display or spin, thinking such will transcend your opinion to fact.

I mean really. No one that admired or respected Bird would make such a habit of prompting up a player who hasn't reached Bird's pinnacle in terms of career greatness yet.

[Kobr]

You know pauk, you always state how much you love Bird, in an attempt to add scarce objectivity to your posts, and yet you consistently make efforts to displace his place in history for Lebron. This isn't the first time at all.

Remember when you tried to convince me that Lebron's 2012 Finals run was better than Bird's 1984 Finals run, making claims such as "Lebron's competition was far better than Bird's competition" to back your argument?

He also claimed for a while, in complete seriousness, that LeBron is a better player than Magic Johnson and ahead of him on the all-time list. And this was before this year. But I think he quickly abandoned that view or at least stopped repeating it.

[Kblaze8855]

I really thought you were one of the more unbiased, openminded and objective posters Kblaze... guess i was wrong.


Im going to try to make something very clear....

Your opinion means less than nothing to me. Your opinions value comes with a negative sign. A large one....in a bold and highly visible font.

You...and people like you...often like me at some point. Possibly because I show a tad of respect to those I feel make a half decent effort to explain themselves...even if I dont agree. we cant all agree...which is fine.

But you....like the Wilt loving clown and any number of Kobe fans take what you do to such an extent that clicking one of your topics becomes a chore. I assume I should...I was asked to moderate...and because of it I at least give everything a shot.

But my god. Its like walking into a movie you know is gonna be terrible but you have to watch it because your girl asked ever so nicely(look into the movie "Kissed" for example...).

Your topics remind me of something Ebert once said about what I think was Battlefield Earth:




Here's a science-fiction film that's an insult to the words "science" and "fiction," and the hyphen in between them.



And as you make more and more of them im left with one question.....who the **** keeps providing financial backing for these trainwrecks?

Its not what you say...which lets be clear...is awful....its what you are.

You are an obsessive almost creepy cheerleader for Lebron James. And you...like most obsessive types dont seem to see that you hurt your own cause.

I like Lebron. Always felt he was great. Defend him often. You....you make me want him to fail just to see less of you. To be forced to sit through less sequels to these god awful movies.

You...and thosel ike you...Kobe versions...Dirk versions....Wilt version..whoever...people who stick to one subject enough that it comes to identify them....they produce 90% of what is wrong with placesl ike this.

There is no enjoying your bullshit circuitous arguments. There is no variety....nobody learns anything. Its you....vs everyone who isnt an idiot....in an endless loop.

And the only change is that eventually people get sick of pointing out what you are doing so a new crop comes in to rehash arguments you have had in one form or another for years.

And all it does is make endless month/year long arguments that span dozens of topics between guys I cant even name making real basketball fans sick and having to avoid 70% of the board.

You are an ever evolving virus that has infected these places and since I am expected to moderate it I wade head first into the infected zone without so much as a can of lysol to clear the path.

Its getting so old I want to take extreme measures like just deleting your every word before reading it just to see if anyone would stop me(its been implied that they would not).

You one subject discussing clowns make coming here a chore when it used to help pass the time....entertain me pre/post game...whatever. Now...its you. And versions of you cheerleading for other players and holding cheerleading competitions on ESPN 8 that nobody wants to see.

And its too much to just...not see. Its everywhere. You people are a 900 inch bigscreen TV floating in the air around every corner on ISH. You either leave...or you watch the show.

I think id rather start breaking screens and wait for security to arrest me. At least there wont be big screens in jail......

[po3try]

Didnt know Larry Bird's passing was that overrated around here, maybe it is due to his standing as an all time great or due to some peoples childhood memories which they refuse to abandon, i am not sure but you need to open your eyes because certainly Lebron has a legit case of being a better passer, actually more legit than Larry Bird and i think OP did an excellent job of showcasing why. The disdaining comments make you only look like green-eyed monsters, you are seriously not being reasonable.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol: :applause: Kblaze taking out the garbage.

[Ikill]

Didnt know Larry Bird's passing was that overrated around here, maybe it is due to his standing as an all time great or due to some peoples childhood memories which they refuse to abandon, i am not sure but you need to open your eyes because certainly Lebron has a legit case of being a better passer, actually more legit than Larry Bird and i think OP did an excellent job of showcasing why. The disdaining comments make you only look like green-eyed monsters, you are seriously not being reasonable.
this is clearly Paul :oldlol:

[KG215]

You know pauk, you always state how much you love Bird, in an attempt to add scarce objectivity to your posts, and yet you consistently make efforts to displace his place in history for Lebron. This isn't the first time at all.

Remember when you tried to convince me that Lebron's 2012 Finals run was better than Bird's 1984 Finals run, making claims such as "Lebron's competition was far better than Bird's competition" to back your argument?

And do you know what you "factual reasoning" was for saying that? That the teams Bron faced (in a shortened lockout season no less) had better winning percentages.

Do you not see how obsessed you are with playing the numbers game? What you do is no different than what you accuse other posters from doing. You ultimately make asinine statements that are essentially opinions that fit within the confinements of your agenda (Lebron is god), and then find any trace of information that you can effectively display or spin, thinking such will transcend your opinion to fact.

I mean really. No one that admired or respected Bird would make such a habit of prompting up a player who hasn't reached Bird's pinnacle in terms of career greatness yet.

He does the same thing now with Durant. He'll call him the second best player in the game, mention how he respects him as a player and likes his game, then in the next sentence he'll essentially call him a one-dimensional shooter.

The part about him saying LeBron's title run in the 2012 went through tougher competition than Bird in '84 by using win% is the same as him saying "very many" in the "Is there a worse Finals performance than this?" thread, then listing 21 year old injured Kobe's 2000 Finals stats.

Not only is that an awful example, but he throws "very many" out there like LeBron's 2011 performance is replicated every 3-4 years by another all-time great in the Finals. Of course he uses his 18-7-7 stat line as evidence that it wasn't that bad, by completely ignoring what actually happened in the games. He's like Yao Ming's Foot in that he clings to his stats and doesn't realize (or just flatout refuses to realize) that sometimes you just have to watch the games.

Those types of basketball fans really annoy the hell out of me. Not saying you shouldn't use stats to back-up certain arguments, but when someone thinks their argument is bullteproof because they used stats is beyond ignorant and a slap in the face to basketball - or sports for that matter. Thinking everything can be verified by stats, in any sport, is ignorant. I think baseball comes closest because it's so heavily reliant on individual play in a team setting, but even then the basic stats (BA, RBI, HR, R) don't tell the whole story. And in this case pauk is doing just that, using a basic stat (APG) in an attempt to make his argument inarguable; like it's fact.

[funnystuff]

So having stats to back up his opinion is being biased?


Atleast Pauk actually throws stats into his argument.

We've got guys like griffin who make up imaginary polls with no link evidence or anything, or guys like KOBE143 who are completely retarded.


Pauk isn't a bad poster, the only reason you guys are dogging on him is because he provides factual evidence of his argument which downsides your opinion.

Facts are facts.

[ballup]

So having stats to back up his opinion is being biased?


Atleast Pauk actually throws stats into his argument.

We've got guys like griffin who make up imaginary polls with no link evidence or anything, or guys like KOBE143 who are completely retarded.


Pauk isn't a bad poster, the only reason you guys are dogging on him is because he provides factual evidence of his argument which downsides your opinion.

Facts are facts.
Facts are facts until they are improperly used.

[Ikill]

Your sockpuppetry isn't fooling anyone Pauk :roll:
i wasnt the first to realize :banghead:

[Money 23]

:oldlol: :applause: Kblaze taking out the garbage.
I get on him for being needlessly long winded, but well done indeed.

He (pauk) is one of the main reasons, along with all the Kobe kids that I have left boards I loved to talk about my passion for 6 - 8 months at a time.

How can one person have so many accounts anyway without feeling weird?

:biggums:

[KG215]

So having stats to back up his opinion is being biased?


Atleast Pauk actually throws stats into his argument.

We've got guys like griffin who make up imaginary polls with no link evidence or anything, or guys like KOBE143 who are completely retarded.


Pauk isn't a bad poster, the only reason you guys are dogging on him is because he provides factual evidence of his argument which downsides your opinion.

Facts are facts.

No, the stats themselves aren't bad. It's the way he presents the stats and acts like his argument is irrefutable evidence because of those stats. It's him coming on here and calling every one else dumb and telling us all that we are disrespecting the game of basketball because we don't agree with him despite him using stats to back-up his argument.

And in this case it's very evident as to why APG don't tell the whole story. I agree, though, kennethgriffin is a much worse troll because, like you said, he uses things like fan polls from Bleacher Report (or just makes them up completely) to back-up his arguments.

[tmacattack33]

Pauk's use of the stats here weren't so great...i mean we are trying to figure out who had the best passing skills alone.

Assists are basically the result of passing skills and your ability to draw in defenders.



But what also was stupid in this thread is how whenever a poster had a similar opinion as Pauk, a few of you laughed it off as "oh, that's just Pauk's other account" (maybe you were joking tho, idk i can't tell).

Lebron's an elite passer. So was Bird. So when you are trying to differentiate between two of the 15 best passers out of the 10,000+ players ever in the NBA, you are going to get different opinions.

It's not like you are comparing number 300 (idk..Andre Igoudala maybe) to number 7,000 (Elton Brand...this dude was terrible with passing).

[BlackVVaves]

He does the same thing now with Durant. He'll call him the second best player in the game, mention how he respects him as a player and likes his game, then in the next sentence he'll essentially call him a one-dimensional shooter.

The part about him saying LeBron's title run in the 2012 went through tougher competition than Bird in '84 by using win% is the same as him saying "very many" in the "Is there a worse Finals performance than this?" thread, then listing 21 year old injured Kobe's 2000 Finals stats.

Not only is that an awful example, but he throws "very many" out there like LeBron's 2011 performance is replicated every 3-4 years by another all-time great in the Finals. Of course he uses his 18-7-7 stat line as evidence that it wasn't that bad, by completely ignoring what actually happened in the games. He's like Yao Ming's Foot in that he clings to his stats and doesn't realize (or just flatout refuses to realize) that sometimes you just have to watch the games.

Those types of basketball fans really annoy the hell out of me. Not saying you shouldn't use stats to back-up certain arguments, but when someone thinks their argument is bullteproof because they used stats is beyond ignorant and a slap in the face to basketball - or sports for that matter. Thinking everything can be verified by stats, in any sport, is ignorant. I think baseball comes closest because it's so heavily reliant on individual play in a team setting, but even then the basic stats (BA, RBI, HR, R) don't tell the whole story. And in this case pauk is doing just that, using a basic stat (APG) in an attempt to make his argument inarguable; like it's fact.

Like you said in that "Is Lebron's 2011 Finals the worst..." thread, pauk is a kennethgriffin hybrid. Never mind the ageless cliche "stats are only half the story," as long as a metric supports his argument, he is thoroughly right and all those whom try and add context to his statistical jargon are opinion based idiots.

But, you're consistent pauk, I'll give you that. From using teams' winning percentages to compare their prowess (essentially signifying that a team like the 2012 Thunder was a better team than the 1984 Lakers), to using Player of the Month awards to contrast All Time greats (even though the award was not present for more than half of NBA history), your fragmented logic is constant.

Like KBlaze eloquently put it, pauk and his kind are viruses that deeply infect the basis of valued debate. It's not because you use stats, it's how you present them in such a misleading way that the average poster on this site that is probably a teenager and doesn't know any better will absorb the information and let it resonate. And, it's done purposely and in a manipulative manner, which is why so many of us get sick and tired of you. And, it's not just you. It's the ways of all stan-hood, however you are the most vicarious in this art you have mastered.

And for the record, I'm almost certain that that po3try account is pauk. Like, 85% sure.

[pauk]

@Kblaze

First of all, ofcourse my "opinions" doesnt matter to you, because it proves your opinion wrong.... :confusedshrug:

Unlike your opinoins... mine are factual assessments which i simply display & support, which you clearly didnt in this thread, the reason i stick to those is because i wont have to deal with empty remarks and endless debates... opinions are just like farts in the sky, meaningless and they stink... while facts show the actuality... guess which side you and me are on in that context considering this thread?

You certainly havent provided nothing but one ignorant comment and a full article of absolute of-topic nonsense about Ebert, Battlefield Earth, Finance, trainwrecks and girlfriends and so on.... and none of it made sense... except the amusement you got from it...

Meanwhile i have presented to you nothing but legit certainty of factual exhibits which shows you why something is and refrained only to basketball...... and you still keep ignoring it with your fairy tales and insults....

As far as your statements about your moderating and my threads goes, let me tell you something.... The chore you speak of in my threads is something which made myself contemplate simply quitting this forum, it is always started & caused by the majority of immature, insulting posters who most of are located in my ignore list, who everybody here feels the same about, who always destroy threads and WHO ROAM FREELY DUE TO YOUR MODERATING SKILLS........

I am more of an antidote to that virus/infection, i am someone who simply pertains to that which is opposite to an incorrect or ignorant proposition and the proposition this forum is majority of propositions from what happens to be Lebron misanthropists.......... due to me providing factual statements which prove them wrong in such a Lebron cynic dominated forum, they (just like you this time) disregard anything i present.....

This forum is like childrens playground... like talking to a brick wall..... often i have asked myself why i do this.... and then i remember there some great posters in here, its maybe worth staying.... one of those great posters i considered were YOU.... i cant hold on to that thought anymore due to you just now showing your true side...

The only difference between you and those other narrowminded, unreasonable posters in this forum is your richer vocabulary....

[arifgokcen]

Facts are facts until they are improperly used.

First of all i didnt participate in the discussion so i have no sides but what the heck does that even mean.

You state the facts thats the only way to use facts.How can you possibly misuse a fact that that fact becomes a non-fact

[LakersReign]

@Kblaze

First of all, ofcourse my "opinions" doesnt matter to you, because it proves your opinion wrong.... :confusedshrug:

Unlike your opinoins... mine are factual assessments which i simply display & support, which you clearly didnt in this thread, the reason i stick to those is because i wont have to deal with empty remarks and endless debates... opinions are just like farts in the sky, meaningless and they stink... while facts show the actuality... guess which side you and me are on in that context considering this thread?

You certainly havent provided nothing but one ignorant comment and a full article of absolute of-topic nonsense about Ebert, Battlefield Earth, Finance, trainwrecks and girlfriends and so on.... and none of it made sense... except the amusement you got from it...

Meanwhile i have presented to you nothing but legit certainty of factual exhibits which shows you why something is and refrained only to basketball...... and you still keep ignoring it with your fairy tales and insults....

As far as your statements about your moderating and my threads goes, let me tell you something.... The chore you speak of in my threads is something which made myself contemplate simply quitting this forum, it is always started & caused by the majority of immature, insulting posters who most of are located in my ignore list, who everybody here feels the same about, who always destroy threads and WHO ROAM FREELY DUE TO YOUR MODERATING SKILLS........

I am more of an antidote to that virus/infection, i am someone who simply pertains to that which is opposite to an incorrect or ignorant proposition and the proposition this forum is majority of propositions from what happens to be Lebron misanthropists.......... due to me providing factual statements which prove them wrong in such a Lebron cynic dominated forum, they (just like you this time) disregard anything i present.....

This forum is like childrens playground... like talking to a brick wall..... often i have asked myself why i do this.... and then i remember there some great posters in here, its maybe worth staying.... one of those great posters i considered were YOU.... i cant hold on to that thought anymore due to you just now showing your true side...

The only difference between you and those other narrowminded, unreasonable posters in this forum is your richer vocabulary....

The hypocrisy is strong in this one(pauk):rolleyes:

[BlackVVaves]

No, the stats themselves aren't bad. It's the way he presents the stats and acts like his argument is irrefutable evidence because of those stats. It's him coming on here and calling every one else dumb and telling us all that we are disrespecting the game of basketball because we don't agree with him despite him using stats to back-up his argument.

And in this case it's very evident as to why APG don't tell the whole story. I agree, though, kennethgriffin is a much worse troll because, like you said, he uses things like fan polls from Bleacher Report (or just makes them up completely) to back-up his arguments.

Yea, Griffey boy when he wants to be (which is the majority of the time) is in a class of idiocy on his own. But, I don't think he actually believes the nonsense he spews. At least, I hope not, because I'd truly be inclined to she the term "retard" to define him in RL.

Pauk absolutely believes everything he states, every word. And, paired with his arrogance, it's truly difficult to stomach a substantial amount of his posts.

[CavaliersFTW]

@Kblaze

First of all, ofcourse my "opinions" doesnt matter to you, because it proves your opinion wrong.... :confusedshrug:

Unlike your opinoins... mine are factual assessments which i simply display & support, which you clearly didnt in this thread, the reason i stick to those is because i wont have to deal with empty remarks and endless debates... opinions are just like farts in the sky, meaningless and they stink... while facts show the actuality... guess which side you and me are on in that context considering this thread?

You certainly havent provided nothing but one ignorant comment and a full article of absolute of-topic nonsense about Ebert, Battlefield Earth, Finance, trainwrecks and girlfriends and so on.... and none of it made sense... except the amusement you got from it...

Meanwhile i have presented to you nothing but legit certainty of factual exhibits which shows you why something is and refrained only to basketball...... and you still keep ignoring it with your fairy tales....

As far as your statements about your moderating and my threads goes, let me tell you something.... The chore you speak of in my threads is something which made myself contemplate simply quitting this forum, it is always started & caused by the majority of immature, insulting posters who most of are located in my ignore list, who everybody here feels the same about, who always destroy threads and WHO ROAM FREELY DUE TO YOUR MODERATING SKILLS........

I am more of an antidote to that virus/infection, i am someone who simply pertains to that which is opposite to an incorrect or ignorant proposition and the proposition this forum is majority of propositions from what happens to be Lebron misanthropists.......... due to me providing factual statements which prove them wrong in such a Lebron cynic dominated forum, they (just like you this time) disregard anything i present.....

This forum is like childrens playground... like talking to a brick wall..... often i have asked myself why i do this.... and then i remember there some great posters in here, its maybe worth staying.... one of those great posters i considered were YOU.... i cant hold on to that thought anymore due to you just now showing your true side...

The only difference between you and those other narrowminded, unreasonable posters in this forum is... vocabulary....
You pick and choose only the evidence that "fits" your beliefs. Your beliefs in "The Chosen One" quite clearly came first and are treated as if totally concrete. The "evidence" and "facts" you like to use are nothing but carefully orchestrated / cherry picked slices of information specifically selected (and continuously repeated) for their sole purpose of supporting your belief (which has existed since the day you layed eyes on Lebron, before he ever accomplished or amounted to anything...).

You discard all info and objective ideas that do not fit your belief, and discredit and slander all posters who do not share your faith. You literally treat Lebron like he's a religion, and preach about him like your his chosen disciple. It's strange, and disturbing.

[Kblaze8855]

The chore you speak of in my threads is something which made myself contemplate simply quitting this forum, it is always started & caused by the majority of immature, insulting posters who most of are located in my ignore list, who everybody here feels the same about, who always destroy threads and WHO ROAM FREELY DUE TO YOUR MODERATING SKILLS........




Im gonna show you something said to me by another of the worst posters ever....Euroleague:




I have sent like 50 messages to Jeff to stop the trolling and wrecking of my threads and nothing is ever done about it.

I get trolled by almost everyone and NONE OF THE MODS stops it, despite me asking over and over for it to be stopped.

So your not being able to do your job as a mod properly is my fault?

Right, that makes sense.



Its like you all went to the same clown college.

At least some of the idiots around here are just joking and having a good time. You two actually think its everyone else with the problem.....

Thats what takes you from awful to a posterboy for why freedom of speech isnt always a good idea.

Rather deal with someone acting a fool for a laugh than someone putting in real work to this extent and looking like an idiot the whole way.

[Money 23]

The hypocrisy is strong in this one(pauk):rolleyes:
FYIs, we know who you're referring to when you quote them. Their name shows up in the text of the original message.

:oldlol:

[RRR3]

FYIs, we know who you're referring to when you quote them. Their name shows up in the text of the original message.

:oldlol:
Prepare to be attacked. I don't think you've met LR yet, but he's the most insane Kobe Kid I've met yet.

[ballup]

First of all i didnt participate in the discussion so i have no sides but what the heck does that even mean.

You state the facts thats the only way to use facts.How can you possibly misuse a fact that that fact becomes a non-fact
It was a badly worded phrase, I admit on my part. To better state my intentions, all statistics should always to be taken with a grain of salt. People like Pauk misuse statistics by leaving out important factors. Sure Lebron he was written up as a point guard, but that was only 13 games. I'm sure he'd still do excellent no matter which position he plays, but 13 games is a very small sample size to back up a huge declarative statement like Lebron is a better passer than Bird.

[bizil]

In terms of pure vision, Bird is just as good of a passer as Bron or ANYBODY. What separates Bron and Magic from Bird is that they have PG handle and pace to go with that vision. But Bird in a stationery position or off a quick dribble or two is on par with any player EVER! It's when it's time to run the fast break or break a defender down off the dribble when Bird takes a backseat to PG's like Magic or point forwards like Pip or Bron. Let alone even certain SG's like MJ.

[chips93]

...i am gona end those thoughts right now if you dont mind....

Before i start keep in mind that Larry Bird is one of my top 3 favorite players of all time. The only agenda here is nothing but the truth based on only factual exhibits and for the reason of simply respect for the damn game & its players...



funny how pauk's heroic quests of truth only over support bron

[ILLsmak]

"PURE" Passing...Bird is Better

Lebron is a Better "CREATOR" of Offense cause of his Superior Handles and Driving Ability Athletic Ability too...Causing The Defense to Close On Him...Thereby Leaving Other of His Teamates Open.

yup.

-Smak

[chazzy]

Yeah, po3try is pauk. He had another account (sh0wtime) that he would use to do the same thing, defend himself when he got cornered for saying something stupid.

[LakersReign]

Yeah, po3try is pauk. He had another account (sh0wtime) that he would use to do the same thing, defend himself when he got cornered for saying something stupid.

He does the same thing with his "nash" sock puppet as well:rolleyes:

The thing about it is, the ret**d insists on arrogantly posting only one-sided biased nonsense, he makes up as he goes along. Then has the nerve to get heated when nobody agrees with him. And the real reason why people don't agree with him, is simply cuz his so called "argument" makes no damn sense. Hence, the desperation to go log into another account to go agree with himself, when he first insisted on posting a bogus "argument" to begin with. Then still expects reasonable people to not only agree with him, but also to take him seriously. A recipe for self ownage if I ever saw one:facepalm

[RRR3]

He does the same thing with his "nash" sock puppet as well:rolleyes:

The thing about it is, the ret**d insists on arrogantly posting only one-sided biased nonsense, he makes up as he goes along. Then has the nerve to get heated when nobody agrees with him. Hence, the desperation to go log into another account to go agree with himself, when he first insisted on posting a bogus "argument" to begin with. A recipe for self ownage if I ever saw one:facepalm
Ironic post.
Nash isn't Pauk either. Nash doesn't hate on Kobe, Pauk does.

[LakersReign]

AND.....more make believe nonsense from rrr3.(yawn):sleeping

[pauk]

Im gonna show you something said to me by another of the worst posters ever....Euroleague:





Its like you all went to the same clown college.

At least some of the idiots around here are just joking and having a good time. You two actually think its everyone else with the problem.....

Thats what takes you from awful to a posterboy for why freedom of speech isnt always a good idea.

Rather deal with someone acting a fool for a laugh than someone putting in real work to this extent and looking like an idiot the whole way.


To compare me to Euroleague is just another desperate insult from you, you are on a roll.... Euroleague is one immature, stubborn and irrational NBA hater, he thinks Euroleague > NBA and thats all he does in this forum posting about how bad NBA is and how good Euroleague is, zero reason, zero logic and 100% bizarness, he deserves everything that is coming to him from any poster here, myself i simply avoid him and is a guy i have in my ignore list.........

Take a look at this thread for example, take a good look.... I gave you all the logical, rational and authenticate information in the world to why Lebron just might be a better passer.... Yet that statement is by majority here treated like its not even close to be debatable (including by you), just like if i am comparing Dwight Howards passing ability to Magic Johnson or something...

Euroleague ignores actuality & facts which proves that NBA is better and has better players, he lives in a fantasy world where whatever he thinks is the only correct thing, despite the grotesquely huge factual information which proves it wrong...... do you see a resemblance here between me and him.... or him and you in this thread....

[Money 23]

Ironic post.
Nash isn't Pauk either. Nash doesn't hate on Kobe, Pauk does.
Nash is a gimmick account. He's named after the guy, and only talks LeBron.

It's the sh0wtime idea. "Hey, I'm really a Lakers fan .. but all I do is talk LeBron"

:oldlol:

BTW, where has LeBron23 gone?

[pauk]

Yeah, po3try is pauk. He had another account (sh0wtime) that he would use to do the same thing, defend himself when he got cornered for saying something stupid.

Ofcourse i am, i am everybody.... i am anybody who doesnt agree with you... :rolleyes:

[RRR3]

Nash is a gimmick account. He's named after the guy, and only talks LeBron.

It's the sh0wtime idea. "Hey, I'm really a Lakers fan .. but all I do is talk LeBron"

:oldlol:

BTW, where has LeBron23 gone?
Nash is a Lebron stan, yes, but I don't see him being Pauk. I have no idea where LeBron23 went.

[CavaliersFTW]

Ofcourse i am, i am everybody.... i am anybody who doesnt agree with you... :rolleyes:
Hey Pauk, in 1968 Wilt Chamberlain dished out more assists than Lebron and he's a center. More assists + his footage shows insane quarter back and thread the needle passing just like Lebronzy's. So... is he a better passer than BOTH Larry Bird AND Lebron? :eek:

Same math formula. More assists + slick highlights = better passer? Isn't that how this all works? :confusedshrug:

[pauk]

You pick and choose only the evidence that "fits" your beliefs. Your beliefs in "The Chosen One" quite clearly came first and are treated as if totally concrete. The "evidence" and "facts" you like to use are nothing but carefully orchestrated / cherry picked slices of information specifically selected (and continuously repeated) for their sole purpose of supporting your belief (which has existed since the day you layed eyes on Lebron, before he ever accomplished or amounted to anything...).

You discard all info and objective ideas that do not fit your belief, and discredit and slander all posters who do not share your faith. You literally treat Lebron like he's a religion, and preach about him like your his chosen disciple. It's strange, and disturbing.

I pick and choose huh? Well that is alot of "picking" dont you think? Did i forget to not "pick" something? Tell me what i missed? Please do, show me....

That last paragraph is one excellent way to portray you, "you discard all info and objective ideas and most importantly FACTS that do not fit your belief, and discredit and slander all posters who do not share your faith. You literally treat oldschool players like they are a religion, and preach about them like you are their chosen disciple. It's strange, and disturbing"

PS: Your nickname indicating you possibly being a Cavs fan combined with your ironic "The Chosen One" quotes and other dismayal comments about Lebron during my time here gives me a strong hint to the obvious agenda you are carrying behind.... 2 years have passed, let it go....

[CavaliersFTW]

I pick and choose huh? Well that is alot of "picking" dont you think? Did i forget to not "pick" something? Tell me what i missed? Please do, show me....

That last paragraph is one excellent way to portray you, "you discard all info and objective ideas and most importantly FACTS that do not fit your belief, and discredit and slander all posters who do not share your faith. You literally treat oldschool players like they are a religion, and preach about them like their chosen disciple. It's strange, and disturbing"

PS: Your nickname indicating you possibly being a Cavs fan combined with your ironic "The Chosen One" quotes and other dismayal comments about Lebron during my time here gives me a strong hint to the obvious agenda you are carrying behind.... 2 years have passed, let it go....
Except not, because I study the history of the game to learn about all players from all eras - I don't make threads for the sole purposing of disparaging 1 player in order to prop up another - such as what you've done here - unless of course I'm mocking someone such as yourself. Even my favorite player Wilt takes a backseat to logic and reasoning. Do us a favor and add unbias logic to your discusions - and stop posting about Lebron for a while. Maybe you can start by posting more about Larry Bird seeing as how he's one of your all-time favorites of which you own and have seen "hundreds" of games? :oldlol:

[DFish]

To compare me to Euroleague is just another desperate insult from you, you are on a roll.... Euroleague is one immature, stubborn and irrational NBA hater, he thinks Euroleague > NBA and thats all he does in this forum posting about how bad NBA is and how good Euroleague is, zero reason, zero logic and 100% bizarness, he deserves everything that is coming to him from any poster here, myself i simply avoid him and is a guy i have in my ignore list.........

I can swap out Euroleague for pauk and it still holds true. Odd how similar you two are.


pauk is one immature, stubborn and irrational LeBron stan, he thinks LeBron > everyone else and thats all he does in this forum posting about how bad past legends are and how good LeBron is, zero reason, zero logic and 100% bizarness, he deserves everything that is coming to him from any poster here, myself i simply avoid him and is a guy i have in my ignore list.........

[upside24]

Here is some footage of Bird's inferior passing ability if you care to check it out pauk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
White text for those who can't detect sarcasm.

[jongib369]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Morton_Ether_1846.jpg/800px-Morton_Ether_1846.jpg


:roll: :roll: :lol

[tobethdope]

I can swap out Euroleague for pauk and it still holds true. Odd how similar you two are.

lol thats really hilarious

[chips93]

Overrated pass. Look how Durant has to reach for the ball.

batum almost got a piece of it. if he had thrown it any easier for durant to catch it, matum could have picked it off

[Math2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



/thread


Don't know why this even needed to be posted...Should just be NBA background knowledge.

[Djarum]

I generally don't post on these forums but I felt the need to thank Kblaze for shutting Pauk's irrational ass up. One day he'll find a new superstar to idolize but for now we have to deal with his shit. Thanks for making it slightly easier, Kblaze. :coleman:

[Round Mound]

Larry Bird Was a Better Passer.

Lebron is a Better Offensive Creator With his Ballhandling Skills and Power to Draw More Attention like Jordan Did With his Passes but Was Not a Better "Pure Pass"-Situation-At Stand Still-Stationary Play.

[tikay0]

Lebron just lacks the footwork or iso movements to dish out passes like Bird. He doesn't have the subtleties that the past greats have. It's not a knock on LBJ, it's just something he doesn't have or will ever have.

[Blue&Orange]

...i am gona end those thoughts right now if you dont mind....

You're a internet retard, you are going to end shit moron.

[get these NETS]

Larry Bird Was a Better Passer.

Lebron is a Better Offensive Creator With his Ballhandling Skills and Power to Draw More Attention like Jordan Did With his Passes but Was Not a Better "Pure Pass"-Situation-At Stand Still-Stationary Play.


Lebron is cut from the same cloth as Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd in terms of passing

look up his ROOKIE year highlights where Carlos butterfingers Boozer couldn't catch passes that Bron threw to him the VERY second that he was open and could score..and repeatedly bobbled surefire assists...


Fast forward to now.....look up Bron corralling a rebound as the ball goes out of bounds and in one motion throwing it clear to the other side of the court and catching a streaking Wade in stride for a layup

Bird and DJ had uncanny knack for finding each other

Bron and Wade share the same chemistry

Bron's passes as a Heat player to scoring players is on par with any of the greats

Jumping out of bounds to catch a loose ball and having the vision to throw it to a streaking player...ON the MONEY before landing on the ground????



I'd love to see Bron play with a REAL big man with soft hands and you'd see kidd like passes out of the half court set every day.

but Haslem is not Mchale

[pauk]

Damn, long time no see, really got tired of debating this... its really a mute point, lets just say that Lebron/Bird are the greatest passing non-PGs....

[Psycho]

Damn, long time no see, really got tired of debating this... its really a mute point, lets just say that Lebron/Bird are the greatest passing non-PGs....

You mean moot.

[Le Shaqtus]

Damn, long time no see, really got tired of debating this... its really a mute point, lets just say that Lebron/Bird are the greatest passing non-PGs....

And thats da truth.

[get these NETS]

this isn't even the play that I was thinking about


but here is bron catching a ball that's about to go out of bounds and heaving it to wade for layup on the other end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaR9u1SmwHI

i've seen variations of this about 4 times from bron



and as far as passing non pgs....Sabonis has to be up there also

[TonyMontana]

LeBron: better passer off the dribble

Bird: better passer in the post

[Kblaze8855]

I still cant believe this guy feels assists per game tell the story here. Its as if basketball was never even watched in reaching the conclusion.

[D.J.]

Bird was a better passer, but he wasn't a better ball handler or penetrator. LeBron would make a better PG because of his handling, athleticism, and agility.

[pauk]

I still cant believe this guy feels assists per game tell the story here. Its as if basketball was never even watched in reaching the conclusion.

I wasnt talking about strictly passing skills but all variables there is about passing... in terms of passing skills i still give the microscopical edge to Lebron (if there is an edge, its microscopical), thats just my opinion and i gave lots of rational assumptions allover this thread based on facts and my eyes to why i have that opinion.... you being differently opinionated towards Birds side there im perfectly aware of and i respect your opinion (even though you dont respect mine and even resorted to insults) since Larry Bird sure had no worse passing skills....

[Leftimage]

Ultimately it's difficult to judge because Lebron is the most athletic NBA superstar in history. Super-fast arm, incredible body coordination, outstanding speed and quickness... these are all major assets to good passing.
Bird on the other hand, is perhaps the least athletic superstar in NBA history (at least post-merger). Stiff, slow, essentially the antithesis of a Lebron. He did so much with so little.

Lebron is better AT passing. But who had better court vision and creativity ? you'd have to put Larry Bird's brain in Lebron's body to figure that one out... and it's pretty damn hard to imagine.

''Mechanically'' speaking, I think Lebron is the greatest passer of all time. In terms of thought process, Bird, and Magic to an even greater extent, were better.

Keep in mind they played in different eras. Team ball was all the rage in the 80s, whereas Lebron entered the league at its' Heroball zenith. So the different environment is also worth considering.

But does anyone on here think Bird would have beaten Lebron in a ''passing skills challenge'' a la all-star game weekend? I don't think he would have.

Ironically, I find Bird's relative stiffness made his passing skills look even cooler
Lebron makes it look easy... likewise when he dunks. Hence why some people find him ''boring''. To me it's impressive though.

I also appreciate the fact Lebron promotes team ball.

[Jailblazers7]

Passing is prob the most ambiguous traits in basketball and cant be proven thru facts or stats when talking about two great passers. Also, giving a microscopic edge to Lebron after a giant post made to end the delusions of others and have some "respect for the damn game" is pretty silly.

[comerb]

I've always though Bird was better at making the quick decision short touch passes in traffic, while Lebron was much better at making the open/cross court perimeter passes .

They are both pretty spectacular in both regards though.

[get these NETS]

was huge bird fan growing up...still a big fan but it nauseates me to read silly comments about "bird doing so much with so little" and other thinly veiled quasi racist comments.



Bird played with a REAL point guard...DJ rip....guy who won ring and got finals MVP BEFORE playing with Bird...and earlier in his career Bird played with Tiny Archibald

Bron hasn't ever played with a legit pg....and is essentially a point forward with ALL those responsibilities

Bird made some passes here and there, but he never had point guard duties while Bron does and has.

[get these NETS]

I get it , bird was a great player....fact that he was white helped the league sell tickets and expand TV coverage

but if you are a hoops fan.....a real hoops fan..and not just relating to a white athlete...you'll see that the 25-30 passes that the highlight shows loop over and over and over again were great passes but Bron on a nightly basis exhibits Magic/Kidd like vision while essentially HAVING to be a point guard out there.

[CavaliersFTW]

I get it , bird was a great player....fact that he was white helped the league sell tickets and expand TV coverage

but if you are a hoops fan.....a real hoops fan..and not just relating to a white athlete...you'll see that the 25-30 passes that the highlight shows loop over and over and over again were great passes but Bron on a nightly basis exhibits Magic/Kidd like vision while essentially HAVING to be a point guard out there.
Sorry but even after watching 3 of the 1992 dream team games last night old man Bird was leaving me in awe with his court vision and his HANDS. His touch passes are second to no one, Lebron RARELY leaves me going "wow" with his passing more than once every other few games. Bird on the other hand, even as a 35 year old with a broken back on limited minutes left me going "wow" at least twice every GAME. Lebron's passes are mostly "impressive", Bird's are mind boggling. Magic and Bird both have that effect when I watch them in action and are simply on another level with passing. Lebron as a passer - from all the basketball I've watched - looks about as good as say, Jerry West or Elgin Baylor and that's not an insult to Lebron. Elgin never padded his assists at the "point forward" spot for entire seasons at a time like Lebron so it isn't reflected in his stats - but their court vision and passing abilities are spot on, but Jerry West DID run the offense like Lebron later in his career and managed to dish out even MORE assists than Lebron. Lebron's passing in games or even in extended highlight reels reminds me of Baylor or West way more than it does Larry Bird or Magic Johnson. If I watch a passing highlight reel of Lebron at the end I'm always saying "impressive". But Magic or Bird? I'm going "holy ****!!!" and hitting replay half a dozen times.

[get these NETS]

Sorry but even after watching 3 of the 1992 dream team games last night old man Bird was leaving me in awe with his court vision and his HANDS. His touch passes are second to no one,

stopped reading after that..since a still close to prime Magic was on the SAME team with possibly the greatest wings/finishers he or ANY point guard EVER ever played with ........Pippen/Barkely/Malone/Jordan/Drexler/ and Robinson

but if you want to stick with your claim that Bird's passes are second to NONE.... go right ahead

[CavaliersFTW]

stopped reading after that..since a still close to prime Magic was on the SAME team with possibly the greatest wings/finishers he or ANY point guard EVER ever played with ........Pippen/Barkely/Malone/Jordan/Drexler/ and Robinson

but if you want to stick with your claim that Bird's pass are second to NONE.... go right ahead
Because that wasn't merely an example. That must be ALL I've seen of Larry Bird right? :facepalm

Lebron - in his prime - did not dish any passes in the 2008, or 2012 Olympics that were mind boggling and made me say wow like 35 year old broken back Bird. And that's with cp3 running the point and a supporting cast of impressive finisher in their own right. And Bird had 33 year old HIV-virus-Magic on the team you dipshit, a guy 1 year removed from playing any sort of organized basketball. Hardly what anyone should be calling "still in his prime" as an excuse to belittle Larry Bird's passes. And wtf does it even matter anyways? I know for sure Magic wasn't even on the floor for at least 2 of the passes I'm thinking about. Your not making any sense with these excuses :facepalm

[RossTalksSports]

LeBron is a very gifted passer with phenomenal court vision. If you were saying he'd be a better point guard than Bird I would have to agree with you.
They are two of the greatest passers of all time, but to fairly judge LeBron versus Bird we'll have to see how LeBron's passing is effected when he's playing past his physical peak.

[get these NETS]

@Cavaliers


save the insults for children, it's like trying to bait opponent who is destroying your team in playoffs with a shove....end of the day, if he's a vet..he doesn't fall for it....he plays through and goes back to destroying your team.....




magic in 92 had greatest wings any pg would ever have....and was still close to the player he was in 91...which is why he eventually came back to the league


75% of magic johnson was still better than any pg he faced in olympics


again......you have magic on the team with greatest athletes/finishers ever yet after watching game 3 of olympics...you come away with notion that bird's passes are second to none

[get these NETS]

LeBron is a very gifted passer with phenomenal court vision. If you were saying he'd be a better point guard than Bird I would have to agree with you.
They are two of the greatest passers of all time, but to fairly judge LeBron versus Bird we'll have to see how LeBron's passing is effected when he's playing past his physical peak.


players with great overall skills and court vision probably become better passers as they age since they can no longer score as well


Arvydas Sabonis was a SHELL of himself when he entered the league....and one of the best passers EVER....Walton on Celtics was on his last legs..again great passer..C webb post leg problems....excellent passer

Magic when he came back as a point forward....same houdini level vision and passing

nothing about Bron's eventual slowdown would lead me to think that he would lose his court vision

[CavaliersFTW]

save the insults for children


magic in 92 had greatest wings any pg would ever have....and was still close to the player he was in 91...which is why he eventually came back to the league


75% of magic johnson was still better than any pg he faced in olympics


again......you have magic on the team with greatest athletes/finishers ever yet after watching game 3 of olympics...you come away with notion that bird's passes are second to none
I RE-watched 3 of the Olympic games - in entirety - last night, not "game 3" - and within the past year I've seen every game - in entirety, some multiple times, not just highlights. I'm a basketball fanatic, I watch numerous games from any decade every week. I've probably watched several dozen full Celtics playoff games from the 1980's and some full regular season of either his or McHale's (or even MJ's or other HOF competition's) more impressive statline games and countless "highlights" break-downs of his games. Also, several career highlight mixes, and of course his recently made passing mixes. But go ahead, act like I haven't seen enough to form a reasonable conclusion :rolleyes:

The sad part is I've seen even MORE of Lebron (virtually his entire career). I've seen virtually all his best passes, and I've seen much more full games of his. Heck, I got to see him in person over a dozen times. But there's no way I can say with a straight face that his passing ability is the same league as Larry Bird.

[get these NETS]

I RE-watched 3 of the Olympic games - in entirety - last night, not "game 3" - and within the past year I've seen every game - in entirety, some multiple times, not just highlights. I'm a basketball fanatic, I watch numerous games from any decade every week. I've probably watched several dozen full Celtics playoff games from the 1980's and some full regular season of either his or McHale's (or even MJ's or other HOF competition's) more impressive statline games and countless "highlights" break-downs of his games. Also, several career highlight mixes, and of course his recently made passing mixes. But go ahead, act like I haven't seen enough to form a reasonable conclusion :rolleyes:

The sad part is I've seen even MORE of Lebron (virtually his entire career). I've seen virtually all his best passes, and I've seen much more full games of his. Heck, I got to see him in person over a dozen times. But there's no way I can say with a straight face that his passing ability is the same league as Larry Bird.



go back and watch Bron's rookie games


he routinely hit carlos boozer with pinpoint passes in traffic the MOMENT boozer was in scoring position..and almost without fail...butter fingers boozer would bobble the pass.....


I can think of 25 laser passes that either went through boozer's hands or off his head because he didn't know they were coming or didn't expect someone to be able to get it to him

your username indicates that you would be aware of what I'm talking about



seeing those passes again on slow mo replay....when Bron was a rookie....gave me a glimpse of what kind of player he'd develop into

[stanlove1111]

I RE-watched 3 of the Olympic games - in entirety - last night, not "game 3" - and within the past year I've seen every game - in entirety, some multiple times, not just highlights. I'm a basketball fanatic, I watch numerous games from any decade every week. I've probably watched several dozen full Celtics playoff games from the 1980's and some full regular season of either his or McHale's (or even MJ's or other HOF competition's) more impressive statline games and countless "highlights" break-downs of his games. Also, several career highlight mixes, and of course his recently made passing mixes. But go ahead, act like I haven't seen enough to form a reasonable conclusion :rolleyes:

The sad part is I've seen even MORE of Lebron (virtually his entire career). I've seen virtually all his best passes, and I've seen much more full games of his. Heck, I got to see him in person over a dozen times. But there's no way I can say with a straight face that his passing ability is the same league as Larry Bird.


Agreed. I watched Bird's entire career and I have seen Lebron's entire career. I think Lebron is one of the 7 best players ever already..But there is no way he passes as well as Bird. Lebron is a good passer who passes a lot because the ball is in his hands lot and he breaks things down.. Bird consistently made passes that I don't know if anyone else could see. And when Bird wanted to step back from scoring and just dominate a game with passing he would do it. I saw him do it many times including twice live and it was amazing..

[AirFederer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



/thread

First, Bron is a great passer. :applause: I really like his game when it`s on, like in the Olympics or during The Streak.

But Bird, man...in this video, how often do you see Bird play iso-ball before the assist? He`s not ball dominant at all. Almost never. He barely has the ball for a split second, but creates genius passes all the same. That`s a differnce in my book. The things Bird did can`t be teached. He was on another level, sorry :bowdown:

[get these NETS]

Agreed. I watched Bird's entire career and I have seen Lebron's entire career. I think Lebron is one of the 7 best players ever already..But there is no way he passes as well as Bird. Lebron is a good passer who passes a lot because the ball is in his hands lot and he breaks things down.. Bird consistently made passes that I don't know if anyone else could see. And when Bird wanted to step back from scoring and just dominate a game with passing he would do it. I saw him do it many times including twice live and it was amazing..

http://brooklynfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/jason-kidd-knicks.jpg



real basketball fans don't say nonsense like that

[get these NETS]

Gotta ask, do you guys consider yourselves BASKETBALL fans?


Reason why I ask is, I notice with Bird what I've noticed with Tiger Woods...where because casual sports fan can identify with an athlete...they essentially repeat what writers and broadcasters say about that athlete's greatness and can't independently put his accomplishments or greatness in context of the sport.


Second to none and I don't know if anyone else could have seen (the play develop)?

come on fellas....Bird was a high volume scorer.....what separated him from the other high volume scorers in his era and in history was that he was as clutch as they come with money on the table.....and he exhibited elite point guard-like court vision and passing...at the SF spot....so he was in position to make the right basketball play as the situation or defense dictacted.

Don't disrespect the game of basketball or the history by giving Bird magical powers that he didn't have, and don't say that he could do or see things that the all time great POINT GUARDS couldn't.

This is the bull that caused the backlash against Bird while he was a player

[La Frescobaldi]

Gotta ask, do you guys consider yourselves BASKETBALL fans?


Reason why I ask is, I notice with Bird what I've noticed with Tiger Woods...where because casual sports fan can identify with an athlete...they essentially repeat what writers and broadcasters say about that athlete's greatness and can't independently put his accomplishments or greatness in context of the sport.


Second to none and I don't know if anyone else could have seen (the play develop)?

come on fellas....Bird was a high volume scorer.....what separated him from the other high volume scorers in his era and in history was that he was as clutch as they come with money on the table.....and he exhibited elite point guard-like court vision and passing...at the SF spot....so he was in position to make the right basketball play as the situation or defense dictacted.

Don't disrespect the game of basketball or the history by giving Bird magical powers that he didn't have, and don't say that he could do or see things that the all time great POINT GUARDS couldn't.

This is the bull that caused the backlash against Bird while he was a player
I predict you have just inspired Cavs to create a thorough whipping of a video.
Epic of the true caliber of his videos showing Russell leaping over a player, or Chamberlain's vertical leap in a game to the top of the backboard.
It'll be like watching Ben Hur or Ten Commandments or Longest Day

[get these NETS]

I predict you have just inspired Cavs to create a thorough whipping of a video.
Epic of the true caliber of his videos showing Russell leaping over a player, or Chamberlain's vertical leap in a game to the top of the backboard.
It'll be like watching Ben Hur or Ten Commandments or Longest Day


nah..it would suffice if he just admits that he saw Lebron's rookie year passes that I alluded to.....

there's no rebuttal against that, which is why I think I haven't gotten a reply to that post

[2010splash]

There really wasn't anything Bird was better than LeBron at besides shooting and arguably rebounding. In terms of overall impact on both ends of the floor, he's much closer to Kobe than to LeBron.

[get these NETS]

nah..it would suffice if he just admits that he saw Lebron's rookie year passes that I alluded to.....

there's no rebuttal against that, which is why I think I haven't gotten a reply to that post


2X

[CavaliersFTW]

2X
I saw Lebron's entire career as a Cav including his rookie season. At no time did he truly "wow" me with his passing. Where as Larry Bird or Magic Johnson highlights DO wow me.

And your logic for convincing yourself your correct is ridiculous, if Lebron throws a wild pass and Boozer can't catch it anyone's immediate reaction should be "bad pass". not "omg that'd have been so good had Boozer caught it!!!111".... Your job when passing the ball to someone is ultimately to make sure they catch it and are set up to score or continue to pass to complete a set play. If Boozer wasn't catching the ball, it is just as much Lebron's fault for not understanding how Boozer needs to be fed to complete a play or score. The fact that you admired Lebron's turnovers is to me, a sign that your a huge homer, not a basketball realist. Thus I've been ignoring your stupid requests for me to respond. There is no point in discussing this further if you admired Lebron's bad pass attempts as a rookie.

[Asukal]

LOL these kids still think Lebron is a better passer than Bird.... :facepalm

He might be a better point guard I'd give you that. :rolleyes:

[Asukal]

I saw Lebron's entire career as a Cav including his rookie season. At no time did he truly "wow" me with his passing. Where as Larry Bird or Magic Johnson highlights DO wow me.

And your logic for convincing yourself your correct is ridiculous, if Lebron throws a wild pass and Boozer can't catch it anyone's immediate reaction should be "bad pass". not "omg that'd have been so good had Boozer caught it!!!111".... Your job when passing the ball to someone is ultimately to make sure they catch it and are set up to score or continue to pass to complete a set play. If Boozer wasn't catching the ball, it is just as much Lebron's fault for not understanding how Boozer needs to be fed to complete a play or score. The fact that you admired Lebron's turnovers is to me, a sign that your a huge homer, not a basketball realist. Thus I've been ignoring your stupid requests for me to respond. There is no point in discussing this further if you admired Lebron's bad pass attempts as a rookie.

They were "LAZER" passes ffs! Its so godly, "LAZER" passes are the best kind of passes and no one can dish them out like Lebron. :bowdown:

It's all Boozer's fault for being too stupid not to see a pass coming. :rolleyes:

[PickernRoller]

Right.....

[D.J.]

I saw Lebron's entire career as a Cav including his rookie season. At no time did he truly "wow" me with his passing. Where as Larry Bird or Magic Johnson highlights DO wow me.

And your logic for convincing yourself your correct is ridiculous, if Lebron throws a wild pass and Boozer can't catch it anyone's immediate reaction should be "bad pass". not "omg that'd have been so good had Boozer caught it!!!111".... Your job when passing the ball to someone is ultimately to make sure they catch it and are set up to score or continue to pass to complete a set play. If Boozer wasn't catching the ball, it is just as much Lebron's fault for not understanding how Boozer needs to be fed to complete a play or score. The fact that you admired Lebron's turnovers is to me, a sign that your a huge homer, not a basketball realist. Thus I've been ignoring your stupid requests for me to respond. There is no point in discussing this further if you admired Lebron's bad pass attempts as a rookie.


Those were definitely Boozer's fault. That would be the equivalent of a QB hitting a WR in the chest with a pass and the receiver drops it. I remember watching Donovan McNabb hitting Todd Pinkston with pinpoint passes and Pinkston dropping it because he was afraid to take a hit(being 6'3" 170 doesn't help). That falls on the receiver, not the quarterback. Same thing here. If Boozer was constantly fumbling good passes(which they were and he was), that's on Boozer not LeBron. If those passes were at his feet or over his head, then that would be on LeBron. When you're hitting the receiver in the chest, that's not on the passer. You're a professional athlete. Your hand-eye coordination is supposed to be at a top level.



LOL these kids still think Lebron is a better passer than Bird.... :facepalm

He might be a better point guard I'd give you that. :rolleyes:


Agreed. LeBron is a better point guard overall because of his athleticism, ability to attack the hoop, and ability to command attention thus leaving teammates open. As far as purely passing, no. That's still Bird's advantage.

[TheCorporation]

No shit. Anyone who thinks Bird was a better passer is an absolute retard.

:lol

[get these NETS]

Bird played with Tiny Archibald and Dennis Johnson

Bron played with mo williams and super mario

passes you saw from Bird were bonuses

and he was throwing them to Kevin Robert Bill

Bron plays point forward and played with Sideshow bob (varejo), carlos boozer and assorted ymca big men

[kNicKz]

Bron plays point forward and played with Sideshow bob (varejo), carlos boozer and assorted ymca big men

http://fullbodytransplant.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/miami-heat.jpg

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird played with Tiny Archibald and Dennis Johnson

Bron played with mo williams and super mario

And they were PG's and the main ball-handlers, Bird neither and still got to average a whole bunch of assists, more than those 2 most of the time.

Lebron always was the main ball-handler on his teams, plus playing PG countless times.



and he was throwing them to Kevin Robert Bill

Bron plays point forward and played with Sideshow bob (varejo), carlos boozer and assorted ymca big men

So on that not why didn't he average more, or even way more, assists when he got to the Heat?

Yea, throwing it to them when the lane was way more crowded because of different rules and the only 3pt threat Bird has ever played with, to drive and dish or to spread the lane, was Ainge.

Bron had countless 3pt threats around to spread the floor and to spot-up, that alone gives a player like Lebron plenty of easy assists.

[get these NETS]

http://fullbodytransplant.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/miami-heat.jpg


wade, last time I checked, wasn't a point guard or a big man

wade isn't even a defacto point guard

[get these NETS]

And they were PG's and the main ball-handlers, Bird neither and still got to average a whole bunch of assists, more than those 2 most of the time.

Lebron always was the main ball-handler on his teams, plus playing PG countless times.



So on that not why didn't he average more, or even way more, assists when he got to the Heat?

Yea, throwing it to them when the lane was way more crowded because of different rules and the only 3pt threat Bird has ever played with, to drive and dish or to spread the lane, was Ainge.

Bron had countless 3pt threats around to spread the floor and to spot-up, that alone gives a player like Lebron plenty of easy assists.


ever heard of scott wedman?



he was one of the first 3 point specialists that I remember in the league....he and Cooper


Cooper did more than spot up and shoot 3s though

remember I am and was a HUGE Bird fan growing up

[SHAQisGOAT]

ever heard of scott wedman?



he was one of the first 3 point specialists that I remember in the league....he and Cooper


Cooper did more than spot up and shoot 3s though

remember I am and was a HUGE Bird fan growing up


Scott was no 3pt specialist. In his prime he was a really good scorer, could shoot, create his own shot and so on, although he played for the Celtics in his last 3 seasons, when he was not in his prime, or close, anymore, not saying he couldn't do those things anymore though. Anyways not saying he couldn't shoot from there but he was no 3pt specialist or threat by any means, nor was a dude like Sitchting even though he was killer from midrange alone.
Yes, from that time Cooper was one of the 3pt threats, so were players like Trent Tucker, Craig Hodges, Bird himself, Dale Ellis, Byron Scott, Mike Dunleavy and so on.
Bird only played with one in Ainge, to spread the floor (lane was much more crowded because of rules and strategies as well) and to spot up. Lebron played with countless, playing a big factor in plenty of easier assists and the floor spread.

[Sarcastic]

Ilgauskas, Shaq, Jamison, Hickson are YMCA players now?

[CavaliersFTW]

They were "LAZER" passes ffs! Its so godly, "LAZER" passes are the best kind of passes and no one can dish them out like Lebron. :bowdown:

It's all Boozer's fault for being too stupid not to see a pass coming. :rolleyes:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[get these NETS]

Ilgauskas, Shaq, Jamison, Hickson are YMCA players now?


ilgauskus I will give you...but not in same class as parish mchale walton


shaq was near finished, jamison is a compiler(look over playoff performance he had with cavs), can't with a straight say that I know who hickson is


bottom line


and game 5 reinforces it....bron plays with scrub ass pgs....and scrub ass big man