#38 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dave Cowens was voted the #37 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

17.6 PPG | 13.6 RPG | 3.8 APG

2

[GP_20]

If Payton does not get voted in the Top 40 this list and the voting should just stop :facepalm

Read the last time we did this thing, he was #28 for a reason (should've been higher).


Gary Payton



that's all i'm gonna say

[imnew09]

If Payton does not get voted in the Top 40 this list and the voting should just stop :facepalm

Read the last time we did this thing, he was #28 for a reason (should've been higher).


Gary Payton



that's all i'm gonna say

Oh damn he's not on the list yet? I haven't been on this voting post for while. My vote goes for Gary Payton as well

[DirtySanchez]

True that Gary Payton The Glove!!!

[KG215]

Wow....just like that two posters get manipulated by a Gary Payton fanboy.

[GP_20]

Wow....just like that two posters get manipulated by a Gary Payton fanboy.
Ya just let me know what Payton did that warrants a 10+ spot drop since 2008

He's a Top 25 All-Time level player. We should be making cases for players like KJ at this point, Payton should have long been voted in.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wow....just like that two posters get manipulated by a Gary Payton fanboy.
:lol

[coin24]

Ill throw a vote in for Payton then:oldlol: Better rep me :lol


Hopefully Rodman makes the top50:cry:

[Raz]

Kevin McHale. The best two way power forward ever.

[KOBE143]

Vote for GP

Next is JKidd then Rodman..

[JoshCoward]

Wow Nash ahead of GP and Kidd... I'll vote for Kidd though I rate GP and Kidd the same career wise.

[wally_world]

Elvin Hayes

[Yung D-Will]

I'm sorry I'm a fan of Iverson, but history will remember Payton,Nash and Kidd as better players.

[L.Kizzle]

Dang, Glove got y'all again just like the last time. At this rate KJ wil get top 50 again.

[Raz]

I'm sorry I'm a fan of Iverson, but history will remember Payton,Nash and Kidd as better players.

And McHale was better than all of them

[Bigsmoke]

Gary Payton

[G.O.A.T]

I'm laughing harder than I have in weeks. Every time I click on a person I ignores vote, it's Gary Payton. KBlaze called it, watch the sheep lemmings run.

[Dragonyeuw]

The rankings have been out of wack for some time now, whatever at this point. Anyways I vote for Jason Kidd....

[fpliii]

I'm laughing harder than I have in weeks. Every time I click on a person I ignores vote, it's Gary Payton. KBlaze called it, watch the sheep lemmings run.

How far do you see Walton, Thurmond, McHale falling? They probably should all be voted in soon...

[StateOfMind12]

Vote - Bill Walton

I hope Walton ends up winning this one but it seems like Payton and his fans are getting him locked and loaded.

[G.O.A.T]

How far do you see Walton, Thurmond, McHale falling? They probably should all be voted in soon...

Walton's best chance was last round, people took Cowens, a good choice as well, but it seems like we might be on the verge of a 90's and 00's stars run here. I'd be surprised if Thurmond makes it in the top 50 here. That's about where I rank him, but I don't think he'll get that kind of love here.

McHale will go about where he should because once his name gets mentioned a few times, he's popular enough that it'll snow ball.

[pauk]

My problem with Bill Walton is the massive lack of longevity & productions, he accumulated only a total of 6000 points and 4000 rebounds if i remember correctly. But he got the accolades.... MVP, FMVP, 2 championships and Rookie of the Year for example, but he was a 6th man aswell... I am certain he was a great player, but when you look at the paper and see his accolades compared to his productions & longevity you wonder how the hell he got those accolades, unless he was at the right time at the right moment and on the right team against the right competition..... SLAM ranked his career #78 http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212548

His career is kindof difficult and thoughtprovoking for me to evaluate correctly, unlike Kevin McHale or even Dolph Schayes, they got the better longevity, the better productions and they got the accolades themselves, it feels much more safe.

My vote has to be one of those, ill go with KEVIN MCHALE

[Figlo]

lol voting sucks, how is scottie 27 lol...just stop it at 40, you messed up at the beggining your voting system is flawed

[Kblaze8855]

I'm laughing harder than I have in weeks. Every time I click on a person I ignores vote, it's Gary Payton. KBlaze called it, watch the sheep lemmings run.

People like this:



If young Kobe can easily scored 55 points against MJ, Im pretty sure Kobe would scored 100 points multiple times in the 80's aka no defense era and would avg around 45ppg easily..


Are voting for Gary Payton all of a sudden. Its fairly obvious the kind of people we are dealing with....

[Dragonyeuw]

I think Payton may be the better individual talent overall than Kidd if we're looking at both ends of the court. I do, however, feel that Kidd was the better passer, rebounder, has the longer, more accomplished overall career and was a bigger part of Dallas' 2011 championship team than Payton was riding the bench for Miami in 2006....in terms of impact, it's pretty negligible but I think Kidd has had the overall better career.

[millwad]

Bill Walton, what the hell..

[97 bulls]

What about Dennis Rodman? He's accomplishd more in the NBA than some top 10 players. I know this is ISH where defense isn't that big of a deal, but damn. There's four aspects of basketball. Scoring, defense, rebounding, and teamplay. Rodman is arguably the best at two of them. What did Kevin Mchale do that should trump Rodman?

[Dragonyeuw]

^ Rodman should be coming up soon. People's voting criteria is all over the place, which makes any kind of 'objective' ranking list damn near impossible.

[DirtySanchez]

Everyone gots to stop b*tching about the list...remember it says according to ISH. The list jumped the shark placing LeBron at #12 more then anything but hey...it's the ISH list. Keeping that in mind the list is FINE.
I actually think it is pretty good and the OP has done a great job keeping the list and talks going.

[mariodeathgrip]

Wut Gary payton????????? Rodman ya Gary payton!!! Wow!!!! Sorry guess I always thought he was over rated!!! Lol did love watching him and Kemp play!! They did put on a show for the crowd!!:applause:

[DirtySanchez]

Wut Gary payton????????? Rodman ya Gary payton!!! Wow!!!! Sorry guess I always thought he was over rated!!! Lol did love watching him and Kemp play!! They did put on a show for the crowd!!:applause:

Tell me right now who is a better PG defender the Payton was in the last 20 years in the NBA?

[Nash]

Kevin McHale

[mariodeathgrip]

Tell me right now who is a better PG defender the Payton was in the last 20 years in the NBA?
The thief!!! Lol

[KG215]

My problem with Bill Walton is the massive lack of longevity & productions, he accumulated only a total of 6000 points and 4000 rebounds if i remember correctly. But he got the accolades.... MVP, FMVP, 2 championships and Rookie of the Year for example, but he was a 6th man aswell... I am certain he was a great player, but when you look at the paper and see his accolades compared to his productions & longevity you wonder how the hell he got those accolades, unless he was at the right time at the right moment and on the right team against the right competition.

My vote has to be one of those, ill go with KEVIN MCHALE

The hell are you talking about? He got his first ring and first MVP because he was at his peak and healthy and a really, REALLY good player. You want to argue that he got a second ring for being with the right team at the right time, fine, but that first one had nothing to do with that. For two seasons Bill Walton played at a level that rivals that of the other all-time great centers ranked in the top 10 all-time.

[mariodeathgrip]

Tell me right now who is a better PG defender the Payton was in the last 20 years in the NBA?

Dam you!! With a trick question!!!

[BoutPractice]

What about Dolph Schayes here?
It's getting tougher to rank players at this point, but he has one of the best resumes left, evidently had a great impact (his team made the playoffs 15 out of his 16 years in the league), and both a very good peak, leading his team to a championship, and great longevity at the time.

[fpliii]

Walton's best chance was last round, people took Cowens, a good choice as well, but it seems like we might be on the verge of a 90's and 00's stars run here. I'd be surprised if Thurmond makes it in the top 50 here. That's about where I rank him, but I don't think he'll get that kind of love here.

McHale will go about where he should because once his name gets mentioned a few times, he's popular enough that it'll snow ball.

there's a good chance you're spot on


My problem with Bill Walton is the massive lack of longevity & productions, he accumulated only a total of 6000 points and 4000 rebounds if i remember correctly. But he got the accolades.... MVP, FMVP, 2 championships and Rookie of the Year for example, but he was a 6th man aswell... I am certain he was a great player, but when you look at the paper and see his accolades compared to his productions & longevity you wonder how the hell he got those accolades, unless he was at the right time at the right moment and on the right team against the right competition..... SLAM ranked his career #78 http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212548

His career is kindof difficult and thoughtprovoking for me to evaluate correctly, unlike Kevin McHale or even Dolph Schayes, they got the better longevity, the better productions and they got the accolades themselves, it feels much more safe.

My vote has to be one of those, ill go with KEVIN MCHALE

longevity doesn't mean all that much to me personally; I care a lot more about having a player you know can lead you to titles


What about Dennis Rodman? He's accomplishd more in the NBA than some top 10 players. I know this is ISH where defense isn't that big of a deal, but damn. There's four aspects of basketball. Scoring, defense, rebounding, and teamplay. Rodman is arguably the best at two of them. What did Kevin Mchale do that should trump Rodman?

I think he's a top 5 man defender outside (Pistons years) and top 10 post defender (SA/Chicago), but he was never a defensive anchor

he's definitely top 50 and probably the best #3 player in league history, but there are guys who are more valuable defensively


Tell me right now who is a better PG defender the Payton was in the last 20 years in the NBA?

probably true, but I'd counter by asking one to consider how valuable defense from a pg is

[WockaVodka]

bill walton

[JellyBean]

George Gervin

[JellyBean]

What about Dolph Schayes here?
It's getting tougher to rank players at this point, but he has one of the best resumes left, evidently had a great impact (his team made the playoffs 15 out of his 16 years in the league), and both a very good peak, leading his team to a championship, and great longevity at the time.


Dolph should have already been on the list.

[colts19]

Walton

[mariodeathgrip]

Tell me right now who is a better PG defender the Payton was in the last 20 years in the NBA?


Season or play-offs!!!

Did some soul searching!! Since my first game I ever saw was magic Johnson last allstar game!! The thief!! Was my favorite defensive minded guard!! Steal the ball run down hit a three or 15 footer unguarded!! Love that guy!! Season Gary payton was the best!! But in the play-off!! That's when pt guards played d!! Gary played all year!! But play-off!! On and off!! Gary defense in play-off series was average at best!!! Yes I went there!!:rant

[Hittin_Shots]

McHale

[Poetry]

What about Dennis Rodman? He's accomplishd more in the NBA than some top 10 players. I know this is ISH where defense isn't that big of a deal, but damn. There's four aspects of basketball. Scoring, defense, rebounding, and teamplay. Rodman is arguably the best at two of them. What did Kevin Mchale do that should trump Rodman?

Before we put Rodman in, we have to put the 1st option GOATs in first. There's still some on the board.

To me there's a world of difference between someone like Kevin McHale and Rodman. They shouldn't even be in the same zip code.

Jack McCallum of Sports Illustrated put it rather bluntly...
"The Hall of Fame is not for supporting players."

Not to say that Rodman was simply a "supporting player" but how can Rodman be ahead of McHale and the Glove. It just wouldn't make any sense.

No one is ignoring his contributions as a great rebounder and defender, but we also can't ignore the fact that a player is capable of preserving himself for those facets of the game when he isn't exactly an offensive threat.

[GP_20]

Dang, Glove got y'all again just like the last time. At this rate KJ wil get top 50 again.
Walt Frazier, John Stockton, Steve Nash, and even Allen Iverson have been voted in. It's a travesty Payton still has not been voted. He should be at least in the Top 30 range.

[97 bulls]

Before we put Rodman in, we have to put the 1st option GOATs in first. There's still some on the board.

To me there's a world of difference between someone like Kevin McHale and Rodman. They shouldn't even be in the same zip code.

Jack McCallum of Sports Illustrated put it rather bluntly...
"The Hall of Fame is not for supporting players."

Not to say that Rodman was simply a "supporting player" but how can Rodman be ahead of McHale and the Glove. It just wouldn't make any sense.

No one is ignoring his contributions as a great rebounder and defender, but we also can't ignore the fact that a player is capable of preserving himself for those facets of the game when he isn't exactly an offensive threat.
Dennis Rpdman is an alltime great.

Do the Pistons win their back to back championships without Rodman?

Do the Bulls win their three straight championships without Rodman?

[WillC]

Dolph Schayes.

LOL at all the teenagers voting for Payton and Kidd ahead of Schayes, Walton, Gervin, etc.

[MasterDurant24]

[QUOTE=97 bulls]What about Dennis Rodman? He's accomplishd more in the NBA than some top 10 players. I know this is ISH where defense isn't that big of a deal, but damn. There's four aspects of basketball. Scoring, defense, rebounding, and teamplay. Rodman is arguably the best at two of them. [B]What did Kevin Mchale do that should trump Rodman?[QUOTE] Be a way better player. McHale was great at all four aspects anyway.

Vote for McHale.

[97 bulls]

there's a good chance you're spot on



longevity doesn't mean all that much to me personally; I care a lot more about having a player you know can lead you to titles



I think he's a top 5 man defender outside (Pistons years) and top 10 post defender (SA/Chicago), but he was never a defensive anchor

he's definitely top 50 and probably the best #3 player in league history, but there are guys who are more valuable defensively



probably true, but I'd counter by asking one to consider how valuable defense from a pg is
Defensive anchor? Rodmans defended Jordan, Pippen, Wilkins, Shaq, Malone, Webber, and Mourning to name a few.

[Poetry]

Dennis Rpdman is an alltime great.

Do the Pistons win their back to back championships without Rodman?

Do the Bulls win their three straight championships without Rodman?

He is. But that doesn't mean spots on the all-time great list are interchangeable. That kind of variance is probably only sensible in the top 3-5.

He was a very important piece to those teams but he's not as valuable as say, again, Kevin McHale.

(BTW: This isn't a vote for anyone. I'm just watching this list grow as an observer.)

[97 bulls]

He is. But that doesn't mean spots on the all-time great list are interchangeable. That kind of variance is probably only sensible in the top 3-5.

He was a very important piece to those teams but he's not as valuable as say, again, Kevin McHale.

(BTW: This isn't a vote for anyone. I'm just watching this list grow as an observer.)
Very important? I didn't ask you that. I asked you do the Bulls or Pistons win their championships without him?

[dyna]

Bill Walton

[fpliii]

Defensive anchor? Rodmans defended Jordan, Pippen, Wilkins, Shaq, Malone, Webber, and Mourning to name a few.

right, but he never locked down his paint like a Russell, Sixers Wilt, Hakeem, Garnett, Duncan did (he guarded his man extremely well, but wasn't the leader of his team's defenses)

[Poetry]

Very important? I didn't ask you that. I asked you do the Bulls or Pistons win their championships without him?

Depends on what player replaces Rodman.

If you replace Rodman with McHale...then yes, they win those championships and likely more.

[Heilige]

Dolph Schayes

[97 bulls]

Depends on what player replaces Rodman.

If you replace Rodman with McHale...then yes, they win those championships and likely more.
Again, three times now. Do they win their championships without Rodman.

[MiamiThrice]

[QUOTE=Poetry]Depends on what player replaces Rodman.

If you replace Rodman with McHale...then yes, they win those championships and likely more.

Again, three times now. Do they win their championships without Rodman.

No, but the Lakers don't win their three championships without Robert Horry. You don't see anyone voting him onto the list now do you?

[Bigsmoke]

Walt Frazier, John Stockton, Steve Nash, and even Allen Iverson have been voted in. It's a travesty Payton still has not been voted. He should be at least in the Top 30 range.

top 30?

nah

[kurple]

schayes

[97 bulls]

right, but he never locked down his paint like a Russell, Sixers Wilt, Hakeem, Garnett, Duncan did (he guarded his man extremely well, but wasn't the leader of his team's defenses)
So what? He did what he did at a high level. Some say the highest. Just the fact that you can only compare what he did on defense to Duncan, Wilt, Russell, Garnett types prove my point.

[97 bulls]

No, but the Lakers don't win their three championships without Robert Horry. You don't see anyone voting him onto the list now do you?
Lol Horry would be nonexistent for the whole game then hit a big shot. Totally different players as far as value to their teams. Horry would give you five points with three comming at the end of the game.

[Poetry]

Again, three times now. Do they win their championships without Rodman.

If you're going to take away an important piece, you have to give me one in return.

It's like asking me, do the 2003-04 Pistons win without Sheed or Rip or Wallace. Okay, well, in this alternate reality, who would a given player be replaced by? Clearly, if there was a gap in the team, someone, in this "what if universe" would have replaced him.

You're only asking half a question given the context of a team losing an important piece. Do they lose that player right before the finals? Or was that player never a part of that team? (and if so, who would have replaced that player on said team?)

[97 bulls]

If you're going to take away an important piece, you have to give me one in return.

It's like asking me, do the 2003-04 Pistons win without Sheed or Rip or Wallace. Okay, well, in this alternate reality, who would a given player be replaced by? Clearly, if there was a gap in the team, someone, in this "what if universe" would have replaced him.

You're only asking half a question given the context of a team losing an important piece. Do they lose that player right before the finals? Or was that player never a part of that team? (and if so, who would have replaced that player on said team?)
My point is simply this. Its ignorant to belittle a player(in this case Rodman)by implying his championships shouldn't hold as much weight because he's not the best player. Especially when hes dominated series.

Here's my point. Jud Buechler, Randy Brown, have three championships with the Bulls. They've made big plays, hit big shots, made huge defensive playes, etc. But theyre expendable. The Bulls would've won their championship without either of those players. That's why they're not looked at with the same regard as Rodman.


Its just silly to say the only player who deserves full credit for their role on championship teams is the best player. Then excuse them when they can't win when they don't have one of the best teams in the league.

[Doctor K]

GP

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'll go with Dolph Schayes

[nycelt84]

Dolph Schayes

[TheBigVeto]

Read the last time we did this thing, he was #28 for all the wrong reasons

FTFY

[ManlyStanley69]

This is a tough one, guys. I can't think of any good players that wore #38

[L.Kizzle]

Walt Frazier, John Stockton, Steve Nash, and even Allen Iverson have been voted in. It's a travesty Payton still has not been voted. He should be at least in the Top 30 range.
Only Frazier and Stockton merit a ranking this high. Nash and AI not so much and I'd take GP over those two.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wut Gary payton????????? Rodman ya Gary payton!!! Wow!!!! Sorry guess I always thought he was over rated!!! Lol did love watching him and Kemp play!! They did put on a show for the crowd!!:applause:
This a vote for Rodman?

[TheBigVeto]

Dolph Schayes

[Freedom Kid7]

Schayes

[Round Mound]

McHale

[ScalabrineStan]

Walton for ****s sake

[mariodeathgrip]

This a vote for Rodman?

Hell ya it is!!! Rodman was one of my favorite players on the bulls!! His d and rebounding was amazing!!! Him and barkley on the same team!! Scary!!!:no:

[Deuce Bigalow]

#38 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

9- Dolph Schayes
7- Gary Payton
6- Kevin McHale
4- Bill Walton
2- Jason Kidd
2- Dennis Rodman
1- Elvin Hayes
1- George Gervin

[L.Kizzle]

Hmm ... some funny stuff.

GP 7 votes, Kidd 2 votes ... didn't seem that way when they were playin'

Kevin McHale 6 votes, James Worthy no votes ... :biggums:

Gervin has a vote, but no mention of Nique Wilkins. They're the same player.

[WockaVodka]

I change my vote to Dolph Schayes

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hmm ... some funny stuff.

GP 7 votes, Kidd 2 votes ... didn't seem that way when they were playin'

Kevin McHale 6 votes, James Worthy no votes ... :biggums:

Gervin has a vote, but no mention of Nique Wilkins. They're the same player.
Worthy and Wilkins were getting some votes the last thread, well actually only 1 vote each.

[Poetry]

Current Results

9- Dolph Schayes
7- Gary Payton
6- Kevin McHale
4- Bill Walton
2- Jason Kidd
2- Dennis Rodman
1- Elvin Hayes
1- George Gervin

Damn Gervin and Hayes only have one vote :coleman:

[mariodeathgrip]

Hmm ... some funny stuff.

GP 7 votes, Kidd 2 votes ... didn't seem that way when they were playin'

Kevin McHale 6 votes, James Worthy no votes ... :biggums:

Gervin has a vote, but no mention of Nique Wilkins. They're the same player.

James worthy was great!! Too bad magic was forced to retire!! Magic worthy!! Meant no three peat for bulls!!!:no:

[Notitlesince73]

GP