#40 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bill Walton was voted the #39 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

13.3 PPG | 10.5 RPG | 3.4 APG

2x NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP
NBA Most Valuable Player
2

[StateOfMind12]

Vote - Paul Pierce

http://www.nba.com/media/act_paul_pierce.jpg

Without a doubt a top 40-50 player of all-time, 4th/5th greatest Celtic ever with Dave Cowens. He should be above Iverson too.

[Round Mound]

McHale

[Boston C's]

I'm still in awe that iverson was voted at 36....

[Boston C's]

Vote - Paul Pierce

http://www.nba.com/media/act_paul_pierce.jpg

Without a doubt a top 40-50 player of all-time, 4th/5th greatest Celtic ever with Dave Cowens. He should be above Iverson too.

i love pierce but your out of your damn mind...pierce is more like top 55-60

ill go walton here

[dyna]

Kevin Mchale

[StateOfMind12]

i love pierce but your out of your damn mind...pierce is more like top 55-60

ill go walton here
Walton just got enshrined unless you are voting for Luke Walton.

[Boston C's]

Walton just got enshrined unless you are voting for Luke Walton.

lmao good catch...my bad...kevin mchale for me

[G.O.A.T]

Unseld, McHale, Hayes would be the next three for me, the order is always interesting to discuss.

Unseld brings the most oddly complete resume and the greatest reputation as an ideal teammate and constant winner to the table. Hayes brings the numbers like few if any left can rival, and McHale brings the winning pedigree and all-around impact that a lot of basketball fans love.

I'd take this front court guys over comparable back-courters still on the board like Kidd, Payton and the Iceman.

[StateOfMind12]

I find it funny that people are voting for Mchale yet in the Ray vs. Manu thread, people were saying it's Ray because Manu was a bench player while Ray was a starter.

Well guess what? Mchale was a bench player for more than half of his career as well while Pierce has always been a starter.

[fpliii]

Unseld, McHale, Hayes would be the next three for me, the order is always interesting to discuss.

Unseld brings the most oddly complete resume and the greatest reputation as an ideal teammate and constant winner to the table. Hayes brings the numbers like few if any left can rival, and McHale brings the winning pedigree and all-around impact that a lot of basketball fans love.

I'd take this front court guys over comparable back-courters still on the board like Kidd, Payton and the Iceman.

I'm pretty embarrassed about my lack of knowledge of the NBA during the mid-late 70s (pre-shot clock era as well, but that's a discussion for another day)...games are just so hard to come by (while almost every playoff game from 80 on is available online somewhere)

are there any complete online games or decent books you'd recommend checking out to fill the mental gap?

[Freedom Kid7]

Am I the only one who thinks Kidd should be in here? Took a Godawful team to the finals twice, was a great defender at the PG position, smart as hell and an excellent rebounder. I know, I know, his scoring may have sucked, but his longevity, defense, smarts and just about everything else made up for it and even more

[fsvr54]

Am I the only one who thinks Kidd should be in here? Took a Godawful team to the finals twice, was a great defender at the PG position, smart as hell and an excellent rebounder. I know, I know, his scoring may have sucked, but his longevity, defense, smarts and just about everything else made up for it and even more

I voted Kidd in the last topic and will vote for him again here.

[Boston C's]

I find it funny that people are voting for Mchale yet in the Ray vs. Manu thread, people were saying it's Ray because Manu was a bench player while Ray was a starter.

Well guess what? Mchale was a bench player for more than half of his career as well while Pierce has always been a starter.

Thats an absolutely completely different argument...manu was never an mvp candidate whereas mchale won mvp in his career which is saying soemthing...mchale was the man in his tenure with the blazers leading them to a title and snagging a finals mvp while he was at it...he has way more nba accolades then manu...saying manu was better then ray is flat out ridiculous because manu never played more then 30 minutes a game in his entire career even in his peak...ill definitely take the guy that can give you 40 minutes a game and carry the team on his shoulders night in a night out 10 times out of 10

also there are at least 10 other ppl to put over pierce...im a huge pierce guy but hes not a top 50 player of all time let alone top 40

[iamgine]

No Bob Mcadoo yet?

[L.Kizzle]

I find it funny that people are voting for Mchale yet in the Ray vs. Manu thread, people were saying it's Ray because Manu was a bench player while Ray was a starter.

Well guess what? Mchale was a bench player for more than half of his career as well while Pierce has always been a starter.
I agree, I always thought McHale was overrated ... though when he did start he was 26 ppg and All-NBA 1st team. Something Manu or Pierce never got close to doing.

[StateOfMind12]

Thats an absolutely completely different argument...manu was never an mvp candidate whereas mchale won mvp in his career which is saying soemthing...mchale was the man in his tenure with the blazers leading them to a title and snagging a finals mvp while he was at it...
I think you got Kevin Mchale and Bill Walton mixed up. Mchale never played on the Blazers and he never won any type of MVP.

Again, your argument is contradicting. Manu was like Mchale. Both were bench players for half of the careers, yet Manu wasn't better than Ray but Mchale was better than Pierce? That makes no sense.

[StateOfMind12]

I agree, I always thought McHale was overrated ... though when he did start he was 26 ppg and All-NBA 1st team. Something Manu or Pierce never got close to doing.
Pierce averaged 26 twice in his career, four times over 25 ppg. He never got an All-NBA first team but he played in the most stacked era among forwards, not SFs, but forwards in general which include PFs which is why he never got much recognition on the All-NBA ballots.

[fsvr54]

Thats an absolutely completely different argument...manu was never an mvp candidate whereas mchale won mvp in his career which is saying soemthing...mchale was the man in his tenure with the blazers leading them to a title and snagging a finals mvp while he was at it...he has way more nba accolades then manu...saying manu was better then ray is flat out ridiculous because manu never played more then 30 minutes a game in his entire career even in his peak...ill definitely take the guy that can give you 40 minutes a game and carry the team on his shoulders night in a night out 10 times out of 10

also there are at least 10 other ppl to put over pierce...im a huge pierce guy but hes not a top 50 player of all time let alone top 40

You're confusing Mchale for walton.

[L.Kizzle]

Pierce averaged 26 twice in his career, four times over 25 ppg. He never got an All-NBA first team but he played in the most stacked era among forwards, not SFs, but forwards in general which include PFs which is why he never got much recognition on the All-NBA ballots.
Actually I'd say McHale played in the most stacked era for forwards.

His teammate
Erving
Nique
King
Dantley
English
Barkley
K. Malone
Marques Johnson


Those were the guys making All-NBA teams when McHale was around

After Duncan, KG, Dirk and James it was open season. JO may make a team one season, Shawn Marion the next. Elston Brand once or twice. Chris Wbber early on and Durant currently.

[IGOTGAME]

Bill Walton is too high on the list. Guy didn't do it for long enough. If that is the case than people should vote in Dwight Howard now.

[StateOfMind12]

Actually I'd say McHale played in the most stacked era for forwards.

His teammate
Erving
Nique
King
Dantley
English
Barkley
K. Malone
Marques Johnson


Those were the guys making All-NBA teams when McHale was around

After Duncan, KG, Dirk and James it was open season. JO may make a team one season, Shawn Marion the next. Elston Brand once or twice. Chris Wbber early on and Durant currently.
Mchale only made it to the first team in 87 and it wasn't a very strong era for forwards then. In 1987, Barkley wasn't Barkley and Dominique was overrated to me anyways. The rest were either declining or weren't themselves either.

Pierce was better than more than half of the guys you listed. Erving, Bird, Barkley, Malone were the only ones better and they've already been enshrined in the voting list so far.

In 2002, Pierce was going up against Chris Webber, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan for the NBA first and second team. He lost out to Webber because Webber put up better numbers and was on the better team. The other three just got in because they were better and they've already been enshrined in the voting so far as well. It's not a major lost that Pierce was not on the first or second team at his best season.

[Boston C's]

I think you got Kevin Mchale and Bill Walton mixed up. Mchale never played on the Blazers and he never won a type of MVP.

Again, your argument is contradicting. Manu was like Mchale. Both were bench players for half of the careers, yet Manu wasn't better than Ray but Mchale was better than Pierce? That makes no sense.

holy lord idk why or how i mixed them up :facepalm

well in a sense your right when it comes to that but when you look at mchale he put up beastly numbers in his prime whereas ginobli didnt come near his production...hell at his peak mchale was better then pierce ray and ginobli lol... the guy has an all nba first team...was top 5 in mvp voting which only ray and pierce can say they were top 10 once in their careers...plus i value big men more i guess you can say its a preference...just looking at what they accomplished though mchale has done more then ginobli in the nba...a lot more actually so the comparison between ray and ginobli is completely different then pierce vs mchale...btw I'm going to retract my pick because I somehow thought walton was around and then panicked to mchale lol...I'm going with G.P just out of personal bias and that he was one of my favorite players ever...lock down defender one of the best players in the league in his prime...would be more sensible to go with someone like unseld but **** it g.p it is lol

and in all honesty if you compare ray and pierces career paths before they came together they are ridiculously identical...nothing really separated them when they were competing

[ScalabrineStan]

durant

[L.Kizzle]

It's JASON KIDD time.

[97 bulls]

I've been saying for the longest that Mchale is overrated. People say he could've been a franchis player but he failed miserable when he got his chaance in 89.

[coin24]

Im standing by my Worm vote.. smh at how underrated he is...
Greatest rebounder and one of the best defenders of all time.(In b4 Wilt "mcgee" Goatberlain stans)

[KOBE143]

Gary Payton. This dude was a beast in his prime.. One of the rare player that gives Jordan a headache..

Next is JKidd then Rodman..

[Duncan21formvp]

Gary Payton

[TheBigVeto]

Kevin McHale.

[colts19]

E. Hayes, he may have been a bad teamate at times but you just have to look at the numbers to see he was a great player for a long time.

[Dragonyeuw]

Am I the only one who thinks Kidd should be in here? Took a Godawful team to the finals twice, was a great defender at the PG position, smart as hell and an excellent rebounder. I know, I know, his scoring may have sucked, but his longevity, defense, smarts and just about everything else made up for it and even more

No you aren't. I voted for him last time, and my vote AGAIN is Jason Kidd.

[G.O.A.T]

Bill Walton is too high on the list. Guy didn't do it for long enough. If that is the case than people should vote in Dwight Howard now.

If Dwight had a title, finals MVP and a ring, he would have been voted by now. There is a HUGE difference between what Walton did and what Howard has done.

[BIZARRO]

Has anyone mentioned Dominique Wilkins yet?? Can you say underrated on ISH?

When people start mentioning Jason Kidd, and there no mention of Dominique yet, it's just completely ridiculous. :confusedshrug:
Dominique Wilkins smokes Jason Kidd as a player.
11 seasons in a row of basically 26 a game and over. Avgd. 30 and 8 peak. Great steal and good block numbers. MUCH better shooting percentage than Kidd.
Yes, players like Mike and Kobe are on a different level, but Dominique's career numbers stack up to Kobe's pretty much equal.
He'd go in a score 40 battling with Jordan and Bird, etc. on equal footing;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4

Jason Kidd ain't doing that.
SO underrated on here.

If you didn't see him play, like most on here, you really can't comment.
Mostly his dunk, but :bowdown: :bowdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJhMNPuiwyI

Listen to Zeke at 1:08 and on and he'll explain why guys like Dominique and Jordan are the true greats...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTMu5JM50hE

To put Jason Kidd over a legend like Dominique Wilkins is just way, way off.

[IGOTGAME]

If Dwight had a title, finals MVP and a ring, he would have been voted by now. There is a HUGE difference between what Walton did and what Howard has done.
I wasn't aware you could have a title and no ring. Tyft.

By the logic used to put Walton this high than Dwight should be next. Several first team all NBA teams, # straight DPOY, lead a weak Magic team to the finals.

[Raz]

McHale

Yes, Kevin McHale.

I can't believe we have Iverson ahead of him :facepalm

[Dragonyeuw]

Has anyone mentioned Dominique Wilkins yet?? Can you say underrated on ISH?

When people start mentioning Jason Kidd, and there no mention of Dominique yet, it's just completely ridiculous. :confusedshrug:
Dominique Wilkins smokes Jason Kidd as a player.
11 seasons in a row of basically 26 a game and over. Avgd. 30 and 8 peak. Great steal and good block numbers. MUCH better shooting percentage than Kidd.
Yes, players like Mike and Kobe are on a different level, but Dominique's career numbers stack up to Kobe's pretty much equal.
He'd go in a score 40 battling with Jordan and Bird, etc. on equal footing;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4

Jason Kidd ain't doing that.
SO underrated on here.

If you didn't see him play, like most on here, you really can't comment.
Mostly his dunk, but :bowdown: :bowdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJhMNPuiwyI

Listen to Zeke at 1:08 and on and he'll explain why guys like Dominique and Jordan are the true greats...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTMu5JM50hE

To put Jason Kidd over a legend like Dominique Wilkins is just way, way off.

What is the point of comparing Dominique's scoring with Kidd's? That's the crust of your argument? Kidd's impact on the game went beyond stats, although he was more than capable of putting them up. He was a triple double machine at 6"4, had multiple seasons 7-8 rebounds a game, 2nd in assists ALL-TIME, 3rd in steals ALL-TIME, and took a mediocre Nets team to back to back finals, yet you feel the notion that he be ranked this high is crazy?

I have both Dominique and Kidd in my top 50, but for my money Kidd had the better career and his impact on a game went beyond posting large scoring numbers.

[Heilige]

Kevin McHale

[JellyBean]

George Gervin.

[WillC]

It's difficult deciding between Kevin McHale and George Gervin.

McHale has the slight edge though; he's arguably the finest post scorer in NBA history and was one hell of a defender too. On a different team he'd have put up 25/10 year-after-year.

Instead, he just quietly helped the Celtics become one of the best teams ever.

[BIZARRO]

What is the point of comparing Dominique's scoring with Kidd's? That's the crust of your argument? Kidd's impact on the game went beyond stats, although he was more than capable of putting them up. He was a triple double machine at 6"4, had multiple seasons 7-8 rebounds a game, 2nd in assists ALL-TIME, 3rd in steals ALL-TIME, and took a mediocre Nets team to back to back finals, yet you feel the notion that he be ranked this high is crazy?

I have both Dominique and Kidd in my top 50, but for my money Kidd had the better career and his impact on a game went beyond posting large scoring numbers.

You can take longevity and slice it any way you want, but there is NO WAY Jason Kidd was better than Dominique Wilkins.

Dominique Wilkins went head to head often on equal footing with Jordan and Bird in their primes. Legend. Flat out.

I saw both of them play from start to finish. It's just a much different league of basketball player.

It's fine with me that Dominique is forgotten and criminally underrated on ISH, very few saw him play. But I still feel like at least somebody needs to bring things back to perspective when talking about forgotten legends like Dominique, Bernard King, and James Worthy. Guys like this at their best were in a different league than a Jason Kidd, who all these new fanboys love because he did fancy passes and hung around long enough to acquire more fanboys.

Dominique was a killer.

[Dragonyeuw]

You can take longevity and slice it any way you want, but there is NO WAY Jason Kidd was better than Dominique Wilkins.



'Better' is subjective; they're two different players, different roles. Dominique scored at a high level, Jason Kidd facilitated, passed and played defense at a high level.The question is which player do you think had a greater impact on the game overall? I rank Kidd higher because I feel he's had the better overall career, and impacted the game in more ways than Dominique did. Your entire argument is centered on his scoring and 'hanging with Jordan and Bird' in the day. You don't measure Jason Kidd's value on his statlines; he was one of those rare players who could score 5 points and still profoundly impact the game.

Ranking these players is totally subjective and everyone has different criteria. Hell, I can run through this list and pick out several players who I feel are 'better players' than people ranked over them. If you're that upset that Jason Kidd's name has been mentioned over Nique, then you should be equally pissed off that Steve Nash sits firmly at #35 in our rankings. Was Clyde Drexler better than Nique? Iverson?....Jason Kidd's name being thrown around in this thread should be the least of your concerns.

For the record, I saw several Nique/Jordan encounters and I'm not oblivious to the kind of player he was in his day.

[USABall]

Nash over Kidd? Seems silly to me. Debatable to most.

Nash this many places above Kidd? :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's between Kidd and Wilkins for me. I think 1st options need to go over 2nd options so that's why I'm not voting for McHale. But what happen to all the Gary Payton votes?

[RRR3]

It's between Kidd and Wilkins for me. I think 1st options need to go over 2nd options so that's why I'm not voting for McHale. But what happen to all the Gary Payton votes?
GP 20 isn't online:lol

[chips93]

GP 20 isn't online:lol

whos that in your avatar?

this is serious business sir

[RRR3]

whos that in your avatar?

this is serious business sir
Christina Milian :pimp:

http://www.volumized.net/pics/data/1180/medium/christina-milian-bikini-05.jpg

[chips93]

Christina Milian :pimp:

huh

never really been that into her

thats probably the best pic of her ive seen

kinda disappointed

[RRR3]

huh

never really been that into her

thats probably the best pic of her ive seen

kinda disappointed
:coleman: She's ridiculously adorable. Stop hatin'.

[coin24]

huh

never really been that into her

thats probably the best pic of her ive seen

kinda disappointed


This.. She looks hot in that pic but:rockon:

Is she still around?:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

This.. She looks hot in that pic but:rockon:

Is she still around?:confusedshrug:
If you mean is she still alive, then yes:lol
If you mean is she still popular, then not really.
She was one of my first celebrity crushes (3rd after J-Lo and Beyonce) and I consider her one of the most pretty girls I've seen, so she's still dear to my heart lol:rockon:

[L.Kizzle]

huh

never really been that into her

thats probably the best pic of her ive seen

kinda disappointed
:biggums: u gay.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Current Results

7- Kevin McHale
4- Jason Kidd
2- Gary Payton
1- Paul Pierce
1- Bob McAdoo
1- Dennis Rodman
1- Elvin Hayes
1- Dominique Wilkins
1- George Gervin

[BIZARRO]

'Better' is subjective; they're two different players, different roles. Dominique scored at a high level, Jason Kidd facilitated, passed and played defense at a high level.The question is which player do you think had a greater impact on the game overall? I rank Kidd higher because I feel he's had the better overall career, and impacted the game in more ways than Dominique did. Your entire argument is centered on his scoring and 'hanging with Jordan and Bird' in the day. You don't measure Jason Kidd's value on his statlines; he was one of those rare players who could score 5 points and still profoundly impact the game.

Ranking these players is totally subjective and everyone has different criteria. Hell, I can run through this list and pick out several players who I feel are 'better players' than people ranked over them. If you're that upset that Jason Kidd's name has been mentioned over Nique, then you should be equally pissed off that Steve Nash sits firmly at #35 in our rankings. Was Clyde Drexler better than Nique? Iverson?....Jason Kidd's name being thrown around in this thread should be the least of your concerns.

For the record, I saw several Nique/Jordan encounters and I'm not oblivious to the kind of player he was in his day.


Yes, my argument is centered around hanging with Jordan and Bird in the day. Very few players in league history coud, and certainly Kidd couldn't.
I understand they're different players, but I put more emphasis on how good the player was, not longevity adding to career stats. And I do disagree with Nash at #35. He wasn't as good as Nique either. Clyde Drexler and Nique are on close footintg, Iverson a step below.
But I'd still take AI and Nash over Kidd. Putting the ball in the hole counts for alot.
But once again, Nique was special in a way that transcends the limitations of Kidd. Nique was able to hang with two of the top 6 players ever and watching those matchups, you would have thought (even though he wasn't) that he was one of those players.
Just a different ceiling and level than Kidd could ever hope to get to.

[BIZARRO]

Yes, my argument is centered around hanging with Jordan and Bird in the day. Very few players in league history coud, and certainly Kidd couldn't.
I understand they're different players, but I put more emphasis on how good the player was, not longevity adding to career stats. And I do disagree with Nash at #35. He wasn't as good as Nique either. Clyde Drexler and Nique are on close footintg, Iverson a step below.
But I'd still take AI and Nash over Kidd. Putting the ball in the hole counts for alot.
But once again, Nique was special in a way that transcends the limitations of Kidd. Nique was able to hang with two of the top 6 players ever and watching those matchups, you would have thought (even though he wasn't) that he was one of those players.
Just a different ceiling and level than Kidd could ever hope to get to.


And Kidd wasn't better than Gervin, B. King, McAdoo, Worthy, Nash, and The Glove either. Let alone Kevin Johnson at his best.

[Dragonyeuw]

Yes, my argument is centered around hanging with Jordan and Bird in the day. Very few players in league history coud, and certainly Kidd couldn't.
I understand they're different players, but I put more emphasis on how good the player was, not longevity adding to career stats. And I do disagree with Nash at #35. He wasn't as good as Nique either.

That's cool, you can argue using whatever criteria you want.

Yes, some of Kidd's all-time rankings are due to longevity, but let's not act like the guy didn't put up stats in his prime, or wasn't an MVP level player( 2002 runner-up). He was putting up 18, 8 and 7 in his Nets prime, has 4 seasons of 10+ assists, 10 seasons of 9+ a game, and 105 career triple doubles. I highly favor players who tangibly impact the game in multiple ways, and Jason Kidd did just that. His one major knock was his shooting touch, and despite that he's pretty much a top 5 all-time point guard. Nique was a heck of a player, but beyond scoring he didn't tangibly impact the game in other areas, and that was probably taken into account when they didn't vote him into the all-time 50 greatest group back in 1996.

You're free to rate Nique higher because he can score 30-40 in the same game where Jordan or Bird puts 40 right back on him, I have my own voting criteria.

[Dragonyeuw]

And Kidd wasn't better than Gervin, B. King, McAdoo, Worthy, Nash, and The Glove either. Let alone Kevin Johnson at his best.

Again, better is subjective. It probably makes more sense to measure Kidd against Nash and Payton, who play the same position, then against people like McAdoo, Gervin and Worthy.