Put Jerry West on those Kobe title teams ... he wins just as many rings?

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm starting to believe maybe it aint as crazy as it sounds... the deeper I've dug into my archive for his footage the more money I get back... the more "Kobe like" and amazing he looks

Jerry West is a less athletic leaper to be sure - but also he's a better shooter and shot blocker - the gap between them that I once thought existed is looking smaller and smaller

recent footage I've been digging up

http://youtu.be/z9gfRJkFhWY

http://youtu.be/PzNUW9pYsSY

he looks like he does every good thing that Kobe does that game of basketball rules at that time allowed save for Kobe's great athleticism. But West IMO makes up ground for Kobe's superior athleticism with greater shot blocking ability and shooting ability - possibly even more defensive awareness. What West lacks is rule and athleticism related (a "handle"... extravagant dunks)

http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg

Am I being crazy?

[tmacattack33]

Sure.

Do you not know who Jerry West is? They made the logo after him. He musta been pretty good. Many people have him very high on their GOAT lists.

[KOBE143]

LOL 1 ring in 9 tries.. GTFO

[CavaliersFTW]

LOL 1 ring in 9 tries.. GTFO
Yah it's a damn shame - and it's a good example of how basketball isn't a 1 man sport seeing how he's the only player in NBA history to ever win a FMVP on the losing team averaging over 40ppg. Got any value to add to the topic?

[MiamiThrice]

Put Jerry West on the 2000,2001,2002, 2010 Lakers teams and they easily win. Not sure about 2009, but that team was the favorite in every single playoff series, so I have no reason to believe a prime Jerry West would fare any worse.

[jongib369]

IMHO he would of won as many championships...but not only that SHAQ would of stayed and there would be no "top dog fights" going on as I'm sure there was none of that immature crap going on between him and Baylor.

[jongib369]

LOL 1 ring in 9 tries.. GTFO
Like Kobe could of Won as many titles as he has with that Monopoly of a team Called the Boston Celtics to go against

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Jerry West would be Danny Ainge with no ball handling skills in today's NBA.

I'm joking

[jongib369]

Jerry West would be Danny Ainge with no ball handling skills in today's NBA.

I'm joking
Have you ever thought about being a comedian? You remind me of a combo of George Carlin/mitch hedberg...if they were retarded


(Just playing around)
*Edit

BAHAHAH just saw the hidden "I'm joking"...that was actually some funny shit LOL

[KOBE143]

I like Jerry West but his no Kobe..

Kobe 1st 3peat was arguably the best perimeter defender in the league.. By 2001 he's arguably the 2nd best player in the league.. Even with Wilt, West cant win a championship.. I know Wilt was a choker but 1 ring in 9 tries:facepalm and at one time they had Baylor..

Kobe >> West deal with it..

[lilgodfather1]

I don't think it's crazy to say that during the Lakers 3 peat replacing Kobe with any top 10 SG (all time) would have yielded a similar result. Shaq was winning those rings with or without Kobe. As for the last two titles, well that is where we can begin the debate. I don't know if the Lakers would have the same result or not. Actually I tend to believe they wouldn't.

[CavaliersFTW]

I like Jerry West but his no Kobe..

Kobe 1st 3peat was arguably the best perimeter defender in the league.. By 2001 he's arguably the 2nd best player in the league.. Even with Wilt, West cant win a championship.. I know Wilt was a choker but 1 ring in 9 tries:facepalm and at one time they had Baylor..

Kobe >> West deal with it..
West's defense is = | = Kobe's defense... I'm not comparing their team success because that's due to coaching / teammates / opponents etc

I'm talking about their individual talents. West looks like he could fill Kobe's shoes with only minor differences. A little less athleticism, a little better shot blocking, and little more polished shooting, with a little less ambidexterity on drives no? Watch some of the footage I posted if you don't believe me and you'll see what I mean - they are extremely similar in abilities. It's no coincidence the Lakers landed Kobe - West saw his game in Kobe. And now I see it too.

[jongib369]

I like Jerry West but his no Kobe..

Kobe 1st 3peat was arguably the best perimeter defender in the league.. By 2001 he's arguably the 2nd best player in the league.. Even with Wilt, West cant win a championship.. I know Wilt was a choker but 1 ring in 9 tries:facepalm and at one time they had Baylor..

Kobe >> West deal with it..
How many rings do you think Kobe would of won in the 60s/70s if you replaced West with him? (Considering Rules would not allow him to do a lot the moves he does now)

[jongib369]

West's defense is = | = Kobe's defense... I'm not comparing their team success because that's due to coaching / teammates / opponents etc

I'm talking about their individual talents. West looks like he could fill Kobe's shoes with only minor differences. A little less athleticism, a little better shot blocking, and little more polished shooting, with a little less ambidexterity on drives no? Watch some of the footage I posted if you don't believe me and you'll see what I mean - they are extremely similar in abilities. It's no coincidence the Lakers landed Kobe - West saw his game in Kobe. And now I see it too.

He said that?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why not just make a tribute video to one of the GOATS? These kinda topics always bring out the WORST in trolls. :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

West would definitely be a different player today, but he would be great. I could see it... as well as the other great SG's.


These kinda topics always bring out the WORST in trolls. :oldlol:

Yeah, don't remind me...

[KOBE143]

How many rings do you think Kobe would of won in the 60s/70s if you replaced West with him? (Considering Rules would not allow him to do a lot the moves he does now)
Do you mean, Kobe of this era in the 60s.. Then he would destroyed the competition and will win every year until he retire..

[lilgodfather1]

Do you mean, Kobe of this era in the 60s.. Then he would destroyed the competition and will win every year until he retire..
60ppg on 20% shooting :bowdown:. On a more serious note Kobe wouldn't even hit 35ppg because big men were the league back then the way it should be.

[Legends66NBA7]

60ppg on 20% shooting :bowdown:. On a more serious note Kobe wouldn't even hit 35ppg because big men were the league back then the way it should be.

If Bryant's on the 60's Lakers, he would be averaging what West and Baylor were averaging, give or take.

[IGOTGAME]

People are not putting what Kobe has done in perspectice . Kobe has been a top 5 player in the NBA for over a decade. He has been able to sustain that level of play into 16th year. He was ale to come in play well enough to win titles with shaq, sit through a rebuilding and still have enough to lead a team team to 2 titles. Sorry but there are a lot of ifs in assuming Jerry West wins 5 titles? Also, Kobe may not be done yet.

Also, let's not understate how Kobe forged this Pau in the heat of battle. Pau developed playing with harsh unrelenting competitor known as Kobe Bryant. Remember, this is the same Pau who repeatedly choked in numerous big stages his entire professional and European career.

[lilgodfather1]

If Bryant's on the 60's Lakers, he would be averaging what West and Baylor were averaging, give or take.
Kobe might not even break the starting line up because of all the travels he would commit. Kobe likely travels about 10 times per game, hell even scrub players travel almost every possession but it goes uncalled in todays league. I don't blame the refs can you imagine if 9/10 possessions there was a turnover... fans would stop going to the games.

Edit: OT a little... but I was wondering what your opinion was of the newest RE. I noticed you were a fan. Personally I was let down. I was super excited to see it, but honestly it just wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be after the last one which I thought was awesome.

[CavaliersFTW]

People are not putting what Kobe has done in perspectice . Kobe has been a top 5 player in the NBA for over a decade. He has been able to sustain that level of play into 16th year. He was ale to come in play well enough to win titles with shaq, sit through a rebuilding and still have enough to lead a team team to 2 titles. Sorry but there are a lot of ifs in assuming Jerry West wins 5 titles? Also, Kobe may not be done yet.
Up to this point - and I'm not talking about title winning - Jerry West has had a long enough dominance streak (of being a top 5 player from his own era) and has a similar enough playing style to make this discussion worthwhile - let's treat Kobe's 2000 - 2009 as perhaps 1962 to 1971 (or 63-72). Ignore what Kobe did after that, and same with West. I'm not talking about what Kobe still "might" do I'm only comparing what he already did and if West could have filled that void if he replaced him.

[KOBE143]

Kobe might not even break the starting line up because of all the travels he would commit. Kobe likely travels about 10 times per game, hell even scrub players travel almost every possession but it goes uncalled in todays league. I don't blame the refs can you imagine if 9/10 possessions there was a turnover... fans would stop going to the games.
LOL at Heat/LeBrick stans talking about travel.. The irony.. :lol

[kennethgriffin]

forget russells celtics...give kobe gail goodrich and wilt chamberlain... he doesnt lose 2 nba finals to the new york knicks


oh yea and lol@60's 1 hand dribbling slow white guy with no concept for modern day basketball stepping in and being anything other than a spot up shooter

[IGOTGAME]

Up to this point - and I'm not talking about title winning - Jerry West has had a long enough dominance streak (of being a top 5 player from his own era) and has a similar enough playing style to make this discussion worthwhile - treat 2000 - 2009 as perhaps 1962 to 1971 (or 63-72)
Even looking at that. Kobes best years as a player were spent on rebuilding teams.

I'm just saying it is easy to say so and so could have done this. If you move Kobes prime years around and have them with Shaq or have him get Gasol in 06 he wins more titles too.



Also, I don't know if Pau progresses the same playing with West.

Honestly, I think a better argument could be made for a guy of kobes track record winning more in Wests place. This would obviously have to disregard the fact Kobe had the advantage of watches the game progress which is impoosible. However, its also impossible to just assume a guy with an average left hand for his time period with added training could slash and run a team like Kobe did.

[CavaliersFTW]

forget russells celtics...give kobe gail goodrich and wilt chamberlain... he doesnt lose 2 nba finals to the new york knicks


oh yea and lol@60's 1 hand dribbling slow white guy with no concept for modern day basketball stepping in and being anything other than a spot up shooter
just curious, did you watch the vids and see what West's game was like? Do you know what he's capable of - at all?

[CavaliersFTW]

Even looking at that. Kobes best years as a player were spent on rebuilding teams.

I'm just saying it is easy to say so and so could have done this. If you move Kobes prime years around and have them with Shaq or have him get Gasol in 06 he wins more titles too.



Also, I don't know if Pau progresses the same playing with West.

Honestly, I think a better argument could be made for a guy of kobes track record winning more in Wests place. This would obviously have to disregard the fact Kobe had the advantage of watches the game progress which is impoosible. However, its also impossible to just assume a guy with an average left hand for his time period with added training could slash and run a team like Kobe did.
I'm guessing you missed all that footage of Jerry West slashing and running his Lakers team looking virtually IDENTICAL to Kobe :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe might not even break the starting line up because of all the travels he would commit. Kobe likely travels about 10 times per game, hell even scrub players travel almost every possession but it goes uncalled in todays league. I don't blame the refs can you imagine if 9/10 possessions there was a turnover... fans would stop going to the games.

Well, my logic towards these always has been... if Kobe Bryant is going to play in any other era, we have to come to the theory he would have to born around that time, since time travel doesn't exist. So, 60's Kobe would probably adapt to the rules and would be very good (I'm on the concept that great players would transcend any and all eras).

I do get the traveling part though and for the sake of today's game, I wish refs would just be more strict on it than give superstar treatment.


Edit: OT a little... but I was wondering what your opinion was of the newest RE. I noticed you were a fan. Personally I was let down. I was super excited to see it, but honestly it just wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be after the last one which I thought was awesome.

My feelings are more or less the same as yours.

I didn't like how it started (the narrating of the past movies gets annoying after doing it for the 4th time in a row). There were some parts not explained well enough (I know Chris and Claire Redfield weren't going to be in it, but they are brought up all but one time and never brought up again.)

The best parts were the fight scenes (Jill kicked Alice's ass) and special effects, bad acting here and there (didn't really bother me though, it's not the movie I'm looking at the acting. :oldlol:).

There were characters introduced to the films and unless you've played the games or skimmed the game plays on YouTube or read the wiki pages... other fans probably wouldn't care, making it just really fan service. However, it was cool to see Leon Kennedy and Ada Wong (big fan of Resident Evil 4), Jill Valentine's comeback, and I'm hoping to see Claire and Chris again too. Though Rain and the other clones from the previous movies were kinda off a waste for this movie. I've also realized how pointless K-Mart is in this series (since, like Alice, is only made for the movies).

Like you, I thought it was going to be the last one as well, but it looks like the 6th one might satisfy us both and the rest of the fans.

[IGOTGAME]

just curious, did you watch the vids and see what West's game was like? Do you know what he's capable of - at all?
Have you watched the teams Kobe and shaq went through and how they did it. Kobe was the primary ball handler and play maker. There is no guarantee West could ever do that.

[longtime lurker]

I don't think it's crazy to say that during the Lakers 3 peat replacing Kobe with any top 10 SG (all time) would have yielded a similar result. Shaq was winning those rings with or without Kobe. As for the last two titles, well that is where we can begin the debate. I don't know if the Lakers would have the same result or not. Actually I tend to believe they wouldn't.

Yeah it pretty much is crazy to say considering that Shaqtus was getting swept out of the playoffs 2 years in a row before Kobe became an all NBA player. Kobe won with the softest big man in the league. IF anyone is replaceable it's Shaq. Pair Kobe with any top 10 C or PF and he wins regardless. I love Jerry West and he's a bad man but let's not forget the man played with a ton of talented teams.

[IGOTGAME]

I'm guessing you missed all that footage of Jerry West slashing and running his Lakers team looking virtually IDENTICAL to Kobe :oldlol:
Are you saying Jerry West was a elite ball handler for his time period. Guy had issues with his left. If he played as well with Chamberlain as Kobe did with Shaq than he'd have more titles.

[CavaliersFTW]

Are you saying Jerry West was a elite ball handler for his time period. Guy had issues with his left. If he played as well with Chamberlain as Kobe did with Shaq than he'd have more titles.
He stole, dribbled, and could even shoot with his left hand - he didn't have "issues" with it :oldlol:

nice try though but that myth is out the window - there's several minutes of highlights in my uploads that show him using that left hand with profficiency. Kobe is one of the most ambidextrous players of all time, I don't expect West to match Kobe's ambidexterity. Then again, I don't expect Kobe could ever be as good at blocking shots or shooting as Jerry West. So don't act like Jerry lacks any more in certain areas that Kobe excels at that he can't easily make up with other characteristics that Kobe lacks. All in all their game is still like a 70% match in the eye-test of what their strengths were on the floor. They are VERY similar, they have many things in common and relatively few that contrast.

[jongib369]

He stole, dribbled, and could even shoot with his left hand - he didn't have "issues" with it :oldlol:

nice try though but that myth is out the window - there's several minutes of highlights in my uploads that show him using that left hand with profficiency. Kobe is one of the most ambidextrous players of all time, I don't expect West to match Kobe's ambidexterity. Then again, I don't expect Kobe could ever be as good at blocking shots or shooting as Jerry West. So don't act like Jerry lacks any more in certain areas that Kobe excels at that he can't easily make up with other characteristics that Kobe lacks. All in all their game is still like a 70% match in the eye-test of what their strengths were on the floor. They are VERY similar, they have many things in common and relatively few that contrast.
Since they were taught to use there strong hand more back then, who is to say Kobe wouldnt "struggle" with it or not be AS good with his left? And who is to say that if West grew up in these times, with todays rules he wouldnt be going around doing the same thing

http://www.dessert.net.au/images/white-chocolate-coconut-kisses20081014white-chocolate1.jpg

[IGOTGAME]

He stole, dribbled, and could even shoot with his left hand - he didn't have "issues" with it :oldlol:

nice try though but that myth is out the window - there's several minutes of highlights in my uploads that show him using that left hand with profficiency. Kobe is one of the most ambidextrous players of all time, I don't expect West to match Kobe's ambidexterity. Then again, I don't expect Kobe could ever be as good at blocking shots or shooting as Jerry West. So don't act like Jerry lacks any more in certain areas that Kobe excels at that he can't easily make up with other characteristics that Kobe lacks. All in all their game is still like a 70% match in the eye-test of what their strengths were on the floor. They are VERY similar, they have many things in common and relatively few that contrast.

The things that allowed Kobe to win titles was his ability to make plays for himself and others off the bounce. It just wouldn't be the same team. The Lakers would never pair West with Derek Fisher because he wasn't a good enough ball handler to facilitate the offense. Honestly, it remains to be seen if he could function as a bailout man in the triangle offense do to his average ball handling ability and the fact he wasn't quite the athlete Kobe was.

Oh, and anytime you start comparing great players at the same position who are built imilarily there will be some overlap. But, at their core they were two very different players who approached the game in very different ways. Both had talented teams. One guy won a lot, the other didnt .

[CavaliersFTW]

Have you watched the teams Kobe and shaq went through and how they did it. Kobe was the primary ball handler and play maker. There is no guarantee West could ever do that.
Jerry West was made point guard for the last 3 seasons the Lakers team and averaged 9-9.5 assists per game all 3 seasons... :oldlol: what do you mean no guarantee he could do that?

[CavaliersFTW]

The things that allowed Kobe to win titles was his ability to make plays for himself and others off the bounce. It just wouldn't be the same team. The Lakers would never pair West with Derek Fisher because he wasn't a good enough ball handler to facilitate the offense. Honestly, it remains to be seen if he could function as a bailout man in the triangle offense do to his average ball handling ability and the fact he wasn't quite the athlete Kobe was.

Oh, and anytime you start comparing great players at the same position who are built imilarily there will be some overlap. But, at their core they were two very different players who approached the game in very different ways. Both had talented teams. One guy won a lot, the other didnt .
WATCH THE FOOTAGE IN THE OP BREH.... that's what makes Jerry and Kobe ALMOST IDENTICAL PLAYERS they both do that exceptionally well with almost total overlap - If ur saying that's why Jerry West "couldn't" follow in Kobe's footsteps than your not at all aware of how Jerry West played basketball - why the hell would I make this thread if they didn't play an almost identical game? Honestly..

[IGOTGAME]

Jerry West was made point guard for the last 3 seasons the Lakers team and averaged 9-9.5 assists per game all 3 seasons... :oldlol: what do you mean no guarantee he could do that?
Again, I doubt the assist were of the same nature. West wasn't breaking down defenses off the dribble the same way Kobe was. Kobe distorted defenses more.

Also, I doubt he could be the bailout guy un the triangle.

[CavaliersFTW]

Again, I doubt the assist were of the same nature. West wasn't breaking down defenses off the dribble the same way Kobe was. Kobe distorted defenses more.

Also, I doubt he could be the bailout guy un the triangle.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm you watched none of the footage in the OP - that much is clear. Go watch it, before you attempt to take this discussion any further.

[Freedom Kid7]

Since they were taught to use there strong hand more back then, who is to say Kobe wouldnt "struggle" with it or not be AS good with his left? And who is to say that if West grew up in these times, with todays rules he wouldnt be going around doing the same thing


Why the white chocolate? Anyways, I agree with your point, but I don't know if they win 5 with West. I think Kobe had the better athleticism throughout his career, but West was a better shooter so I could be wrong.

[IGOTGAME]

WATCH THE FOOTAGE IN THE OP BREH.... that's what makes Jerry and Kobe ALMOST IDENTICAL PLAYERS they both do that exceptionally well with almost total overlap - If ur saying that's why Jerry West "couldn't" follow in Kobe's footsteps than your not at all aware of how Jerry West played basketball - why the hell would I make this thread if they didn't play an almost identical game? Honestly..
Maybe you just started watching Jerry West tape but I've watched a ton of old Lakers games. They did not approach the game the same way. They didn't play the same way. Anyone can make a video attempting to "prove" their agenda. I can make a video cherrypicking Ray Allen/Vince highlights and saying he played like Kobe...doesn't change the truth.

[IGOTGAME]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm you watched none of the footage in the OP - that much is clear. Go watch it, before you attempt to take this discussion any further.
Goodnight. I'm happy you decided to start watching some Jerry West games. He was a great player.

[CavaliersFTW]

Maybe you just started watching Jerry West tape but I've watched a ton of old Lakers games. They did not approach the game the same way. They didn't play the same way. Anyone can make a video attempting to "prove" their agenda. I can make a video cherrypicking Ray Allen/Vince highlights and saying he played like Kobe...doesn't change the truth.
A Ton? :lol What "ton of games" have you watched from back then again? Because I own all of the Laker / All star games with Jerry West in them and their certainly isn't a "ton" of them. Your knowledge of West is looking very suspect right about now

[jongib369]

Why the white chocolate? Anyways, I agree with your point, but I don't know if they win 5 with West. I think Kobe had the better athleticism throughout his career, but West was a better shooter so I could be wrong.
LOL think about it...Jerry West...WHITE chocolate.

Idk how it would go it's all what if's...I think of it like this...West had Kobe Like D, better shooter, way more mature (No top dog fights with shaq)...so if someone like Bird can dominate with less athleticism so can West

SO I personally predict 4-6 titles

[IGOTGAME]

A Ton? :lol What "ton of games" have you watched from back then again? Because I own all of the old Lakers games with Jerry West in them and their certainly isn't a "ton" of them. Your knowledge of West is looking very suspect right about now
My uncle has a large collection of lakers games. I didn't say they were all from back when jerry west played.

However, you sound like you lack perspective. I'll admit it is hard to come by.

[Clifton]

You could have put Paul Pierce on those teams and he'd have just as many rings. Kobe took 7 steps back every time he took 10 steps forward for the Lakers. Especially in the postseason. Strikingly so in the Finals.

Winning championships with Shaq and Phil Jackson is something dozens of SGs of the last few decades could have done, especially in the 00s when the only other decent big guy* was Duncan. So could Jerry West? Of course. Not only would he have won as many, he would have won more, and would have had actual chemistry with Shaq.

*Meaning, big guy who would have had a hand in guarding Shaq. Obviously Dirk and KG are great players who were tall... but they were 7' SFs.

[LakersReign]

I don't think it's crazy to say that during the Lakers 3 peat replacing Kobe with any top 10 SG (all time) would have yielded a similar result. Shaq was winning those rings with or without Kobe. As for the last two titles, well that is where we can begin the debate. I don't know if the Lakers would have the same result or not. Actually I tend to believe they wouldn't.

Just gotta love it how haters keep repeating that lie, thinking reasonable NBA fans actually believe it.:roll:

Shaq didn't win a damn thing til Kobe became a starter, nor did he win anything in Orlando with Penny. Nor did he win anything in Cleveland with Lebron. I see a pattern here:D

[KG215]

Again, I doubt the assist were of the same nature. West wasn't breaking down defenses off the dribble the same way Kobe was. Kobe distorted defenses more.

Also, I doubt he could be the bailout guy un the triangle.

In the first 2 minutes of the first video you see similarities in his offensive game and Kobe's. He hits several backdown fadeaway jumpers, some mid-range pull-ups, and even mixed in a Kobe-esque head fake, draw the foul, and-one from 15 feet. Then it shows his passing/playmaking ability in the last 2 minutes.

West is similar to Kobe in that he was a SG who was used as the primary ball-handler and playmaker a lot of times. He played with a PG in Goodrich who was similar as a player to Gail Goodrich. Goodrich was better but, like Fisher, he was a shoot first PG who played alongside another guard who he more-or-less split the ball-handling duties with.

CavaliersFTW or someone else help me out, because I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got about Goodrich's game from what I've read and seen.

[CavaliersFTW]

So I make this thread in an effort to draw some discussion and comparisons with West and most of what I get in return is Kobe fan backlash - I should have known better :oldlol:

Kobe might be better at the end of the day then again West might be nearly as good, I don't even care about the who's better or worse - I find it funny that a number of Kobe fans are so displeased with this comparison yet so unable to actually bring up legitimate intelligent discussion and criticism against West... that's why I posted footage of him - to help u guys out. Use it - there are legitimate differences in their game (I pointed some out in the OP). But saying things like West can't kick out the ball after drawing a double / run an offense / dribble with his left hand (all things that he is doing with ease in the vid) reflects the just plain laziness of not bothering to click and see his footage

[CavaliersFTW]

In the first 2 minutes of the first video you see similarities in his offensive game and Kobe's. He hits several backdown fadeaway jumpers, some mid-range pull-ups and even mixed in a Kobe head fake, draw the foul, and-one from 15 feet. Then it shows his passing/playmaking ability in the last 2 minutes.

West is similar to Kobe in that he was a SG who was used as the primary ball-handler and playmaker a lot of times. He played with a PG in Goodrich who was similar as a player to Gail Goodrich. Goodrich was better but, like Fisher, he was a shoot first PG who played alongside another guard who he more-or-less split the ball-handling duties with.

CavaliersFTW or someone else help me out, because I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got about Goodrich's game from what I've read and seen.

Your perception of Goodrich is accurate - According to Jerry West's ESPN documentary West was made the point guard in the early 70's team (at least for much of the time) while Goodrich actually played the off-guard. And he was much better than Fish. Man I gotta start uploading more games so you guys can see examples I keep wanting to reference games that I have but you guys haven't watched them... I'll make an effort to upload some games that showcase some of these guys (unlisted of course so my channel won't get removed)

[KG215]

Your perception of Goodrich is accurate - According to Jerry West's ESPN documentary West was made the point guard in the early 70's team (at least for much of the time) while Goodrich actually played the off-guard. And he was much better than Fish. Man I gotta start uploading more games so you guys can see examples I keep wanting to reference games that I have but you guys haven't watched them... I'll make an effort to upload some games that showcase some of these guys (unlisted of course so my channel won't get removed)

Yeah, that's what I thought. Wasn't trying to say Fisher was as good as Goodrich, because that's not even a discussion. But that backcourt pair was pretty similar to the Kobe/Fisher backcourt in that the "point guard" was more of a shooter/scorer (Goodrich being much better than Fisher at it) than a playmaker/distributor, and both guards handled ball-handling/PG responsibilities.

[jongib369]

So I make this thread in an effort to draw some discussion and comparisons with West and most of what I get in return is Kobe fan backlash - I should have known better :oldlol:

Kobe might be better at the end of the day then again West might be nearly as good, I don't even care about the who's better or worse - I find it funny that a number of Kobe fans are so displeased with this comparison yet so unable to actually bring up legitimate intelligent discussion and criticism against West... that's why I posted footage of him - to help u guys out. Use it - there are legitimate differences in their game (I pointed some out in the OP). But saying things like West can't kick out the ball after drawing a double / run an offense / dribble with his left hand (all things that he is doing with ease in the vid) reflects the just plain laziness of not bothering to click and see his footage
Well kobe fans are young...babies tend to just notice flashy shiny things and giggle at it and stare blankly (ESPN)...Maybe when they get a little older they will notice that when you put your hands in front of your face, the person is actually still there? (All that kobetards are missing and pointing out West didn't have even though it's in the OP)

:confusedshrug:

Kobetards....making Kobe fans look bad since forever

Not that I cant be tard myself I don't notice everything lol

(Just playing around)

[All Net]

So I make this thread in an effort to draw some discussion and comparisons with West and most of what I get in return is Kobe fan backlash - I should have known better :oldlol:


What do you expect? from the outside looking in it looks like a plain old agenda thread to base hate on Kobe even if that wasn't your intention. One of many threads that happen here to underrate Kobe and make his groupies get mad. Not a good combo.

Even if that wasn't your intention on first impressions thats what it looked like.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You do realize were talking about the 00s and 10s right?, not the weak 60s and 70s.

[CavaliersFTW]

You do realize were talking about the 00s and 10s right?, not the weak 60s and 70s.
You always add so much depth to these types of discussions :lol

[jongib369]

You always add so much depth to these types of discussions :lol
What do you think of using "Link" players Cavs? Guys like Chamberlain beasting it in the late 50s, 60s and 70s...Guys like Kareem doing his thang from the late 60s to the 90s almost....Artis Gilmore 70s into the 80s (Does surprisingly well in the 80's) John Havlicek Early 60s to late 70s...Erving Early 70's to late 80's...Elvin Hayes 60s into the 80d....Jordan Mid 80s to Early 00's ETC...Does the logic that those players producing GREAT in later decades PROVE how good there starting era's were? I mean...by Deuce's logic Kobe and LeBron will have a ton of trouble doing anything remotely close to what they're doing now in 2030's +...I mean if he DOES think they will I'll respect him for being consistent with that logic...It's all what if's so I could just as easily be wrong but damn...The "Link" argument isn't as silly as I see some people say it is

[CavaliersFTW]

What do you think of using "Link" players Cavs? Guys like Chamberlain beasting it in the late 50s, 60s and 70s...Guys like Kareem doing his thang from the late 60s to the 90s almost....Artis Gilmore 70s into the 80s (Does surprisingly well in the 80's) John Havlicek Early 60s to late 70s...Erving Early 70's to late 80's...Elvin Hayes 60s into the 80d....Jordan Mid 80s to Early 00's ETC...Does the logic that those players producing GREAT in later decades PROVE how good there starting era's were? I mean...by Deuce's logic Kobe and LeBron will have a ton of trouble doing anything remotely close to what they're doing now in 2030's +...I mean if he DOES think they will I'll respect him for being consistent with that logic...It's all what if's so I could just as easily be wrong but damn...The "Link" argument isn't as silly as I see some people say it is
I don't worry about what Deuce says I know what his gameplan is - each sny remark he has about the 60's and 70's is a shot fired at Jlauber - not me - he prob doesn't even believe half the shit he says he just wants to give oldschool fans (specifically, Jlauber) a hard time :lol

[jongib369]

http://oi49.tinypic.com/10pdoqb.jpg

Gilmore -19 points .623 FG % 10.4 RPG 2.1 blocks

[jongib369]

I don't worry about what Deuce says I know what his gameplan is - each sny remark he has about the 60's and 70's is a shot fired at Jlauber - not me - he prob doesn't even believe half the shit he says he just wants to give oldschool fans (specifically, Jlauber) a hard time :lol
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/27212898.jpg

[BoutPractice]

The late 60s-early 70s Lakers were a pretty formidable team, the equivalent of the 12-13 Lakers in terms of talent.
They strike me as an underachieving team overall. Russell's team, with less talent, had a bazillion titles in a row before them. Sure, the Lakers made 3 Finals in 4 years (with 2 two game 7 losses... West was one unlucky fellow), but they could've had a four peat.
Not that West is solely to blame, but it shows that even the best players with the best teams don't always get it done.
There's no such thing as a guaranteed championship, so even as a comparable talent to Kobe, West could've had any number of championships with Shaq from 0 to 6.

[Doranku]

Comparing players that played in such vastly different eras just doesn't make sense and never has.

You really think if you put Jerry West in a time machine and transported him to the NBA today as he was in his prime that he'd be the same player? Dude gets zero elevation on his jumpers and has shakier handles than most people I see down at the gym. :oldlol:

[jongib369]

Comparing players that played in such vastly different eras just doesn't make sense and never has.

You really think if you put Jerry West in a time machine and transported him to the NBA today as he was in his prime that he'd be the same player? Dude gets zero elevation on his jumpers and has shakier handles than most people I see down at the gym. :oldlol:
You know what, you're right! Jesus christ idk what it was but something about what you said just clicked for me...I've been looking at this era, and its rules putting it into perspective / objectively like a fool...All those hours of footage I watched for nothing...

LMAO you think if you did the same for kobe he wouldnt turn the ball over called for palming 9 out of 10 times? Silly ISHP, go watch espn and bait

[WillC]

Watching these highlight videos of Jerry West has made me realise which (relatively) modern player he reminds me of most.

Drazen Petrovic.

They have a lot of similarities in terms of their head fakes, pump fakes, range, sweet stroke, etc.

However, West was a far superior defender.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that West would not only survive in today's League but, in fact, thrive.

[jongib369]

Watching these highlight videos of Jerry West has made me realise which (relatively) modern player he reminds me of most.

Drazen Petrovic.

They have a lot of similarities in terms of their head fakes, pump fakes, range, sweet stroke, etc.

However, West was a far superior defender.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that West would not only survive in today's League but, in fact, thrive.
Wow you are so right! I can totally see it...But west was superior in not only defense but everything else ...MO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLlPtBsGbYo

[Psileas]

What do you think of using "Link" players Cavs? Guys like Chamberlain beasting it in the late 50s, 60s and 70s...Guys like Kareem doing his thang from the late 60s to the 90s almost....Artis Gilmore 70s into the 80s (Does surprisingly well in the 80's) John Havlicek Early 60s to late 70s...Erving Early 70's to late 80's...Elvin Hayes 60s into the 80d....Jordan Mid 80s to Early 00's ETC...Does the logic that those players producing GREAT in later decades PROVE how good there starting era's were? I mean...by Deuce's logic Kobe and LeBron will have a ton of trouble doing anything remotely close to what they're doing now in 2030's +...I mean if he DOES think they will I'll respect him for being consistent with that logic...It's all what if's so I could just as easily be wrong but damn...The "Link" argument isn't as silly as I see some people say it is

The problem with the "weak" era arguments is that you can't have a transition from a "weak" era to a "strong" one without first leading to retirememnt the representatives of the "weak" era. How and why should anyone respect what Magic and Bird did in the early to mid-80's, if most of their opponents are players that played in the "weak" 70's? And, unless they started as mediocre players who developed into superstars, how could someone explain that their most prolific seasons were NOT the early 80's (facing "weak" 70's opponents), but the mid-late 80's instead, when facing supposedly superior competition? Why couldn't a 25 year old Bird produce 30/10/7 seasons playing mainly against 70's competition?
And, yes, you gotta love at these "weak opponent" arguments and then see that Dr.J, whose athleticism craps on the athleticism of most of today's NBAers, calls Havlicek one of the best defenders he's ever faced, you see Hayes still being a double-double machine, past his prime, in Magic's-Bird's early years, when you see the unathletic Dan Issel still being a scoring machine at the age of 35, Bernard King (late 70's product), at 34, with zero elevation in his shots (more "zero" than West...), going for the 1991 scoring title against peak Jordan, not to mention Kareem doing his thing vs Hakeem, Sampson, Ewing...

[INDI]

I actually believe that if you put kobe on those jerry west teams that they win at least 5 or 6. Those guys back then never saw a player the likes of kobe.

[coin24]

Yeah.. Jerry West was great and all... But, does he have a video like this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY9HjNWbJvA
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Kobe's #2 on my all time SG list but West is really close, in fact I think West had a better peak.

Of course he could easily win the same amount of rings in Kobe's position.

[HardwoodLegend]

Shaq didn't win a damn thing til Kobe became a starter, nor did he win anything in Orlando with Penny. Nor did he win anything in Cleveland with Lebron. I see a pattern here:D

He wasn't in his prime yet when he played with Penny, and he was past his prime when he played with LeBron AND Wade.

Kobe lucked out and got the best version of Shaq there was.

[LakersReign]

He wasn't in his prime yet when he played with Penny, and he was past his prime when he played with LeBron AND Wade.

Kobe lucked out and got the best version of Shaq there was.

Thanks for yet again proving that the whole "oh....well....just slap ANYBODY in Kobe's spot on the Lakers with Shaq and they'll still win," LIE, is the stinking pile of hater horsesh*t Lakers fans always knew it to be:applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

He wasn't in his prime yet when he played with Penny

Yes, he was in his prime.

[Clifton]

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that West would not only survive in today's League but, in fact, thrive.
Of course he would. Let this defeat "weak era" arguments now and forever: Steve Nash won 2 MVPs in this era. If Nash can get 25/12 every night in this era, there is no reason to suppose Jerry West couldn't be a tier-1 player also.

And also remember this is a league in which guys like Kidd and Rajon Rondo get triple doubles every other night... so don't tell me the league is "too big" for West to overcome it, or "too athletic/fast" for him to outhustle it.

I don't think West would be considered superior to Lebron if he played today, but there would be fierce arguments about whether he is better than Durant. And Durant, considering his mediocre at best defense and merely average (for an all-star) ability to create for others, might just slip to consensus #3.

[Vertical-24]

Although I don't believe West would fair as well as Bryant, I can definitely see why you would like to compare them. I made a similar thread months ago and I got flamed for it a bit.

Comparing the 2nd and 3rd greatest SGs in basketball history is not far-fetched or a slap in the face to either players.

Still, I believe Kobe is the superior player and I don't think West would match Kobe's five rings. I do believe he could possibly repeat with the MDE, but I don't think he would match Kobe's legacy. That's strictly opinion but I just can't see it happening, particularly on Kobe's '08-'10 teams.

And unlike some tards in this thread, I really do see where you're coming from CavsFTW. I was just watching one of your videos and the post-up, turn around, fake and shoot moves West used definitely puts you in the mind of Kobe. Great finds man.

[Doctor Rivers]

I thought people were saying Wade was close to being 3rd on the SG list?

[Legends66NBA7]

I thought people were saying Wade was close to being 3rd on the SG list?

Oh, he is. He's 4th at worst.

[The Iron Fist]

I don't think it's crazy to say that during the Lakers 3 peat replacing Kobe with any top 10 SG (all time) would have yielded a similar result. Shaq was winning those rings with or without Kobe. As for the last two titles, well that is where we can begin the debate. I don't know if the Lakers would have the same result or not. Actually I tend to believe they wouldn't.
So Shaq has over ten rings?