#43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wes Unseld was voted the #42 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

10.8 PPG | 14 RPG | 3.9 APG

NBA Champion
NBA Most Valuable Player
NBA Finals MVP
NBA Rookie of the Year
5

[1987_Lakers]

Gary Payton

[KOBE143]

The Glove

[GP_20]

This list is just awful considering the fact that Gary Payton has not been voted in yet.

I mean, I guess that is what happens when people don't have the knowledge and aren't presented the correct cases for underrated players like Gary Payton.




Anyways, I vote Gary Payton. Will also say he deserves at least Top 30 once you know enough about his greatness. When cases were made for him so people became aware, he was voted #28 last time we did this thing. When there weren't cases made, he is still not voted. I guess that what happens when you are underrated.

[nycelt84]

Elvin Hayes

[turnaroundJ]

Dennis Rodman

[coin24]

The Worm

[Dragonyeuw]

Gary Payton

[Kblaze8855]

This list is just awful considering the fact that Gary Payton has not been voted in yet.

I mean, I guess that is what happens when people don't have the knowledge and aren't presented the correct cases for underrated players like Gary Payton.




Anyways, I vote Gary Payton. Will also say he deserves at least Top 30 once you know enough about his greatness.

Yea....thats the problem. Kids who claim Kobe would score 80-100 many times in Jordans era because of the lack of defense vote for Payton(as happened one post above yours) and I dont...or GOAT doesnt..its because we...with decades of obsessive NBA watching and gathering of knowledge of its history...just dont have the knowledge he does.

Thats the problem here. Lack of knowledge.

These people just...know more about NBA history than I do...even though learning about it has been a passion of mine since before some of them were born. I find that likely.....


Anyway...Payton isnt a bad vote here. He could go in now or in like 30 picks and be next to guys roughly on his level. Last time there were guys in the 90s who were all NBA over him in their primes. At this point its just....whatever. Guys voted in soon will likely have guys outside the top 100 who were better than them in their primes. Popularity is gonna get more people in now than their resume.

And Gary is one of the more well known 90s players left. People will vote them in before looking into the likes of Dennis Johnson or anyone from the 50s. Which is...their right. Everyone left would probably fit on like...2 tiers.

Mullin and Zo types might be 30 picks from now. Were not really considered worse than guys like Gary. Few people worth arguing against right now.

Maybe the Pistol Petes who I dont think should even be top 50. But Gary isnt worth arguing against at the moment. But the argument that its a lack of knowledge that kept him out 20 picks ago is just laughable.


Ive probably forgotten more about NBA history and the 90s in particular than some people voting for him. But I guess I hate him right? Like Pauk says I hate Lebron...and Sircharles said I hate Barkley...and some Dirk cheerleader types think I hate him. You obsessive about one guy types really seem to have a fair and level headed take on who hates the object of your affections.

[Duncan21formvp]

Vote: Payton.


How the hell are people voting for Rodman here? Dude made 2 allstar teams in his career and was never better than the 3rd best player on teams. Payton led the Sonics to 6 seasons in a row of 55+ wins.

[wally_world]

Elvin Hayes for me

[L.Kizzle]

This list is just awful considering the fact that Gary Payton has not been voted in yet.

I mean, I guess that is what happens when people don't have the knowledge and aren't presented the correct cases for underrated players like Gary Payton.




Anyways, I vote Gary Payton. Will also say he deserves at least Top 30 once you know enough about his greatness. When cases were made for him so people became aware, he was voted #28 last time we did this thing. When there weren't cases made, he is still not voted. I guess that what happens when you are underrated.
GP is a good pick here. 3 versions of SLAM's All Time list and Simmons have him in the 40-50 range. On TNT's the next 10 list (afterthe NBA@50) they didn in like 2007, he came in 10th on a list that included Kobe, AI, Duncan, Wilkins, Kidd, ect.

[colts19]

Elvin Hayes

[coin24]

Vote: Payton.


How the hell are people voting for Rodman here? Dude made 2 allstar teams in his career and was never better than the 3rd best player on teams. Payton led the Sonics to 6 seasons in a row of 55+ wins.



Who gives a shit about All Star teams... Are you Pauk? Ranking players on All Star Game MVPs?:lol :lol
But seriously, Rodman was the greatest rebounder and one of the best defenders of all time... But, I dont disagree with Payton if he wins this, should have actually been higher IMO...

[Raz]

Paul Pierce. He has been consistently excellent for longer than Payton. Pierce is also arguably the best player on a championship team and he has the hardware to prove it.

[Kblaze8855]

Pierce is also arguably the best player on a championship team and he has the hardware to prove it.

No he isnt. Pierce was never ranked over KG until he fell off due to injury. A week of higher scoring(mostly in losses) does not change that. There was no question who the key player on the Celtics was that season.

Doesnt mean Pierce cant be ranked over Payton. Same basic level. But...he just wasnt the best player on his team in 2008.

Pierce played well below the level he proved capable of in those playoffs. It was one of the few times in his career he didnt step up from the regular season. He didnt look like himself for most of it.

[G.O.A.T]

Going to try and lead the vote for Pithcin' Paul Arizin in one of these next few spots.

Arizin was a player comparable to Cousy and Schayes during the 1950's. All three players excelled in the era before and after the shot clock and they were the top player (by reputation at least) on the first three Champions of the shot clock era with Paul's '56 Warriors sandwiched between the Nats and Celtics.

Arizin was a three-time scoring Champion playing for the Warriors and their charismatic owner/coach Eddie "the mogul" Gottlieb. During his second season, 1951-52, Arizin won the scoring Championship averaging 25 ppg. Two more than Mikan and four more than Cousy. He also led the league in FG% from the field in a league where only seven players topped 40%. He was an innovator of the jump shot. He took what previous Warrior scoring star (and 1952 teammate) Joe Fulks started and brought tremendous efficiency to the shot focusing on balance and a consistent release. Basically he invented what we today consider the pull-up jumper.

After the '52 Campaign, Arizin took a few years off to fight in the Korean conflict for the Air Force. When he got back in 1954, the league had changed quite a bit. Mikan was gone, instead of six black players (as in 51-52) there were now nearly twenty, there was a 24-second shot clock where previously possessions were ended only by a defensive rebound, turnover or end of period. Still Arizin picked up right where he left off. The Warriors which had gone 41-100 in two seasons without him jumped right back to near .500 that first year and Arizin averaged 21-9 on 40% shooting.

The 1955-56 season was arguably his finest. He was second in the league in scoring and field goal percentage, second in the MVP voting to Bob Pettit and in the playoffs he averaged nearly 30 per game while still shooting 45% from the field. The Warriors won 45 games (72-game season), most in the NBA and cruised to the NBA title beating first Syracuse led by Dolph Schayes and then in the Finals the Ft. Wayne Pistons with Larry Foust and George Yardley 4-1.

From there Arizin remained a 20 per game scorer for the remainder of his career. He led the Warriors back to the Eastern Finals in '58 and joined Wilt Chamberlain in 1960 to help Philadelphia twice battle Boston for the Eastern crown before retiring in 1962 with the Warriors poised to move west for the Bay Area.

Certainly Arizin had a greater career than the likes of Gary Payton, Dominique Wilkins, George Gervin and the other remaining quality options here at #43. There is not a player left who had a season like he had in 1956 that ended with a Championship. Most people here haven't heard much about him, but as others have brought up, if you believe Cousy and Schayes are still top 40 players all-time, than Arizin can't be far behind.

[WockaVodka]

Paul Pierce was better than Gary Payton so my vote goes to Pierce.

[GP_20]

Yea....thats the problem. Kids who claim Kobe would score 80-100 many times in Jordans era because of the lack of defense vote for Payton(as happened one post above yours) and I dont...or GOAT doesnt..its because we...with decades of obsessive NBA watching and gathering of knowledge of its history...just dont have the knowledge he does.


No it's not just having knowledge about Payton that makes people vote for him. That is one of the bigger reasons, but it could be other reasons. Therefore, your final conclusion is invalid. Try again.




Thats the problem here. Lack of knowledge.

These people just...know more about NBA history than I do...even though learning about it has been a passion of mine since before some of them were born. I find that likely.....


Anyway...Payton isnt a bad vote here. He could go in now or in like 30 picks and be next to guys roughly on his level. Last time there were guys in the 90s who were all NBA over him in their primes. At this point its just....whatever. Guys voted in soon will likely have guys outside the top 100 who were better than them in their primes. Popularity is gonna get more people in now than their resume.

And Gary is one of the more well known 90s players left. People will vote them in before looking into the likes of Dennis Johnson or anyone from the 50s. Which is...their right. Everyone left would probably fit on like...2 tiers.

Mullin and Zo types might be 30 picks from now. Were not really considered worse than guys like Gary. Few people worth arguing against right now.

Maybe the Pistol Petes who I dont think should even be top 50. But Gary isnt worth arguing against at the moment. But the argument that its a lack of knowledge that kept him out 20 picks ago is just laughable.


Ive probably forgotten more about NBA history and the 90s in particular than some people voting for him. But I guess I hate him right? Like Pauk says I hate Lebron...and Sircharles said I hate Barkley...and some Dirk cheerleader types think I hate him. You obsessive about one guy types really seem to have a fair and level headed take on who hates the object of your affections.

I'm not saying you hate Payton Kblaze. The problem with you, you are the most close-minded poster I have encountered on ISH. It's rather disturbing that you base your arguments on things like: "When I was watching I thought this [with nothing to back it up] and thus, no matter what you say, what I thought is true". I can't tell how ignorant and close-minded you come across. Thats your problem. And honestly, I can't fix it, but I'm glad other people aren't as close-minded as you (and thus with good arguments voted GP Top 30 last time).


So just to say it 1 more time, lack of knowledge? That applies to most ISH Posters. But not you. You don't lack knowledge, you are just close-minded to its highest degree.

[MasterDurant24]

Sam Jones

[BlueandGold]

Rodman, best defender all time. A player like him hasn't been seen before or since his NBA playing days.

[1987_Lakers]

Since when did Paul Pierce become so overrated? He is getting votes, but I'll still vote for Gervin, Wilkins, Hayes, GP etc before I vote for Pierce.

[WillC]

George Gervin

[Legends66NBA7]

Since when did Paul Pierce become so overrated? He is getting votes, but I'll still vote for Gervin, Wilkins, Hayes, GP etc before I vote for Pierce.

Bob McAdoo too, I think he's the only MVP left. (not a vote)

[Boston C's]

Paul Pierce was better than Gary Payton so my vote goes to Pierce.

your out of your ****in mind :facepalm

gonna go with payton here for sure

[Boston C's]

Since when did Paul Pierce become so overrated? He is getting votes, but I'll still vote for Gervin, Wilkins, Hayes, GP etc before I vote for Pierce.

for me pierce is in that 55-60 range which is still ridiculously good but theres no way he gets in above the guys you mentioned

[fpliii]

Nate

[Kblaze8855]

No it's not just having knowledge about Payton that makes people vote for him. That is one of the bigger reasons, but it could be other reasons. Therefore, your final conclusion is invalid. Try again.



I'm not saying you hate Payton Kblaze. The problem with you, you are the most close-minded poster I have encountered on ISH. It's rather disturbing that you base your arguments on things like: "When I was watching I thought this [with nothing to back it up] and thus, no matter what you say, what I thought is true". I can't tell how ignorant and close-minded you come across. Thats your problem. And honestly, I can't fix it, but I'm glad other people aren't as close-minded as you (and thus with good arguments voted GP Top 30 last time).


So just to say it 1 more time, lack of knowledge? That applies to most ISH Posters. But not you. You don't lack knowledge, you are just close-minded to its highest degree.

You do know that most people in these things who change their minds....do so because they are given new information right? Its a lack of knowledge that makes people so easily swayed. When you know enough to have an informed opinion...there are less new facts to sway you.

I am not swayed because virtually nobody here can tell me anything I dont know. Not because im smarter than anyone. Because this is something I care about and I am an obsessive person. I sit around reading articles from 1974 basketball....because it interests me.

I have too much information on these subjects to be impressed with the facts you can give me. Its not being closed minded. Its having an informed opinion to begin with.

[Young X]

Gary Payton

[StateOfMind12]

Paul Pierce, top 50 player of all-time, top 10 SF of all-time. He deserves this spot.

[inclinerator]

ray fukin allen

[kurple]

GP

[dyna]

Elvin Hayes

[G.O.A.T]

You do know that most people in these things who change their minds....do so because they are given new information right? Its a lack of knowledge that makes people so easily swayed. When you know enough to have an informed opinion...there are less new facts to sway you.

I am not swayed because virtually nobody here can tell me anything I dont know. Not because im smarter than anyone. Because this is something I care about and I am an obsessive person. I sit around reading articles from 1974 basketball....because it interests me.

I have too much information on these subjects to be impressed with the facts you can give me. Its not being closed minded. Its having an informed opinion to begin with.

Why bother?.

You're debating with a person who ranks Gary Payton and Kevin Johnson about 30 spots higher than anyone else and thinks you're the one being close-minded.

GP20 would rather stay uninformed and claim superiority than learn or discuss anything.

He's the type pf person who talks about how great his own threads are and how much people respect him.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Gary Payton

[Heilige]

Elvin Hayes

[Round Mound]

McAdoo Or Hayes...McAdoo Changed the CF Spot Forever as a Pure Shooter and he was also a Solid Rebounder and Defender

[GP_20]

I have too much information on these subjects to be impressed with the facts you can give me. .
Basically "I already know everything so I will never change my mind". Enough said textbook definition of close-minded. Don't need to say much else. What you don't know is it's not about the information you have, it is about how you think about the information you have. New theories and higher level of truths generally don't arise from new information, they arise from the way you look at old information.

But why am I bothering with someone so close-minded. As for the idiotic poster who called me close-minded: I at one time did not rank KJ Top 100. After debating with a certain poster, I rank him Top 40 and firmly believe it. Yep I'm close-minded lol.

[Kblaze8855]

If you bump him from 100 to 40....its because you got new information. Meaning...you didnt know shit to begin with and the new information changed your mind. Are there people who know more about these subjects than me? sure. Ive seen no evidence you are one of them.

"Higher level of truth"? Get the **** outta here. What kind of person even says that? This is basketball homie.

[L.Kizzle]

Basically "I already know everything so I will never change my mind". Enough said textbook definition of close-minded. Don't need to say much else. What you don't know is it's not about the information you have, it is about how you think about the information you have. New theories and higher level of truths generally don't arise from new information, they arise from the way you look at old information.

But why am I bothering with someone so close-minded. As for the idiotic poster who called me close-minded: I at one time did not rank KJ Top 100. After debating with a certain poster, I rank him Top 40 and firmly believe it. Yep I'm close-minded lol.
So one poster made him jump 60 spots in your mind?

I want him to be my lawyer if I get in trouble for anything. He can make the judge believe anything.

[ScalabrineStan]

Payton

[GP_20]

If you bump him from 100 to 40....its because you got new information. Meaning...you didnt know shit to begin with and the new information changed your mind. Are there people who know more about these subjects than me? sure. Ive seen no evidence you are one of them.

Aite so you know as much about Payton as me? Typical Kblaze ignorance. I know you're reply, "I know everything I need to know to blah blah blah". And that is also the typical ignorant reply. There is so much you are missing, your approach of "MVPs" and "I saw him play here and there" is too simplistic.



"Higher level of truth"? Get the **** outta here. What kind of person even says that? This is basketball homie.

? Its often the case 2 people will watch 2 players and have different opinions of who is greater. They both have the same information, but its their thinking that determines who is greater in their mind. KBlaze, you "say" you have information, but it is your reasoning that dooms you.

[Kblaze8855]

Dooms me to what? You not agreeing with me? Have I ever given any impression that I want our opinions to sync up? You arent someone id like to agree with me.

I dont think we discuss basketball for the same reasons. I knew that once you told me something along the lines of opinions being poor arguments because all it takes is an opposing one and its "gone".

And that isnt basketball talk to me. Thats what people who want to argue more than talk ball made internet forums into. I talk about basketball here because it makes fans of basketball available to talk to 24/7. I dont care who wins a poll. Ive not even voted. I just point out what I feel are poorly made arguments or ones I agree with. Ive not voted in these things in a long time.

hell I didnt vote when I was in GOATS top forwards/guards thing and running it for a while. Its the basketball that interest me. Not what might convince a 22 year old who is right about what happened when they were 7.

I saw it. I know what happened. My opinion on it is not going to be modified 20 years later by the presentation of information ive had for decades.

If Gary Payton were elite all time id have noticed it when I watched him all the time in his prime. What am I gonna see more clearly 15 years later? Some numbers?

Dude is gone. There is no information to add. Folder complete and sealed. And frankly his place in history is only going to get worse and worse because he did nothing to set himself apart and elite players keep coming along.

Guys who were arguably the best player in the league get disregarded after doing a hell of a lot more than Gary Payton.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Paul Arizin

[1987_Lakers]

Paul Arizin

changed your opinion on Hayes?

[Deuce Bigalow]

changed your opinion on Hayes?
Yeah. I'll go Hayes after Arizin gets in.

[Deuce Bigalow]

#43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

9- Gary Payton
5- Elvin Hayes
3- Paul Pierce
2- Dennis Rodman
2- Paul Arizin
1- Sam Jones
1- George Gervin
1- Nate Thurmond