#44 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Gary Payton was voted the #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

16.3 PPG | 3.9 RPG | 6.7 APG

NBA Champion
NBA Defensive Player of the Year
9

[StateOfMind12]

Paul Pierce, top 50 player of all-time, top 10 SF of all-time.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Paul Arizin

[GP_20]

About time. About 15-20 spots late though.



Kevin Johnson


His career is about the same level as Nash's. Needs to be voted in.

[DaHeezy]

Bob McAdoo

[DaHeezy]

About time. About 15-20 spots late though.



Kevin Johnson


His career is about the same level as Nash's. Needs to be voted in.

Are you still on that shyt?
Where at any point has KJ achieved anything over Steve Nash?

[GP_20]

Are you still on that shyt?
Where at any point has KJ achieved anything over Steve Nash?
What has Nash done that KJ hasn't? And I don't mean awards and sh*t which is all relative to who their competition is (Magic/Jordan vs. ???)

KJ turned around the Sun's franchise just like Nash did. And led them to 2 WCFs as the #1 player.


Let's talk about KJ's impact on the Sun's.

He helped turned the Sun's franchise around in his 1st full season in Phoenix.

1988: 28-54
KJ's 1st full season in Phoenix
1989: 55-27
WCF
1990: 54-28
WCF

Kind of like Nash's turn around. Right when KJ joins, they start winning. Now granted he had other teammates that joined as well. We'll get more to that in a second, but it was clear KJ was a major part of this turn around. Here is what Hornacek had to say

You were the player who guided a team and franchise out of bad times and into the power they are today. We would have never gone from 28 wins to 55 wins in one year without you, nor would the Suns have played for the championship without your leadership, play and dedication.


http://www.nba.com/suns/news/kjohnso...av=ArticleList


Also, in 1990 KJ had his most injury prone season of his peak. He missed 7 games. The Sun's record in those 7 games? 2-5. With him? 52-23. Also like Nash did in Phoenix, and also why both were considered the best. They were the center playmakers, elevating the games of the teammates, and the team struggled without them.

[pauk]

Argh.... this is tough as hell... its basically like trying to pick between two twins or something, one brunette and one blonde... i am stuck between Nash, Hayes and Arizin...

[DaHeezy]

What has Nash done that KJ hasn't? And I don't mean awards and sh*t which is all relative to who their competition is (Magic/Jordan vs. ???)

KJ turned around the Sun's franchise just like Nash did. And led them to 2 WCFs as the #1 player.


Let's talk about KJ's impact on the Sun's.

He helped turned the Sun's franchise around in his 1st full season in Phoenix.

1988: 28-54
KJ's 1st full season in Phoenix
1989: 55-27
WCF
1990: 54-28
WCF

Kind of like Nash's turn around. Right when KJ joins, they start winning. Now granted he had other teammates that joined as well. We'll get more to that in a second, but it was clear KJ was a major part of this turn around. Here is what Hornacek had to say

You were the player who guided a team and franchise out of bad times and into the power they are today. We would have never gone from 28 wins to 55 wins in one year without you, nor would the Suns have played for the championship without your leadership, play and dedication.


http://www.nba.com/suns/news/kjohnso...av=ArticleList


Also, in 1990 KJ had his most injury prone season of his peak. He missed 7 games. The Sun's record in those 7 games? 2-5. With him? 52-23. Also like Nash did in Phoenix, and also why both were considered the best. They were the center playmakers, elevating the games of the teammates, and the team struggled without them.

So you're basically omitting 2MVPs, multiple NBA assist leader, greatest FT shooter of all-time, longer career at peak play, for an argument based on turning around a franchise and quotes? :facepalm

[coin24]

Worm

[magnax1]

Ill go with Rodman. I think he's easy to undervalue because he wasn't the best at the area of the game people seem to gain the most joy from watching. He was however the best rebounder ever, and by far, and also at least one of the five best defenders ever by my estimation.

[GP_20]

So you're basically omitting 2MVPs, multiple NBA assist leader, greatest FT shooter of all-time, longer career at peak play, for an argument based on turning around a franchise and quotes? :facepalm
Do you have any argument that doesn't stand on the fact that Nash didn't play with Jordan, Magic, and Stockton? (there goes your MVPs and assist titles) like KJ did? Nash's career high in assists is 11.6, KJ's is 12.2. And KJ did not win an assist title for that.

So really what did Nash do that was so impressive in his career? I thought turning around franchises was one of the, you want to name something? Clutch playoff performances? Amazing numbers? KJ has done each of those.

[1987_Lakers]

I think it's time for Elvin Hayes to get in.

Don't like him much, but you can't deny the impact he had on the court for number of years.

[Dave3]

Do you have any argument that doesn't stand on the fact that Nash didn't play with Jordan, Magic, and Stockton? (there goes your MVPs and assist titles) like KJ did? Nash's career high in assists is 11.6, KJ's is 12.2. And KJ did not win an assist title for that.

So really what did Nash do that was so impressive in his career? I thought turning around franchises was one of the, you want to name something? Clutch playoff performances? Amazing numbers? KJ has done each of those.
No mention of Johnson's team having a pace roughly 10% higher than Nash's team? Interesting...

Oh, and awards are useless to compare because they depend on your competition, but wins are fine to compare...what, they don't depend on your competition?

[DaHeezy]

Do you have any argument that doesn't stand on the fact that Nash didn't play with Jordan, Magic, and Stockton? (there goes your MVPs and assist titles) like KJ did? Nash's career high in assists is 11.6, KJ's is 12.2. And KJ did not win an assist title for that.

So really what did Nash do that was so impressive in his career? I thought turning around franchises was one of the, you want to name something? Clutch playoff performances? Amazing numbers? KJ has done each of those.

Playing in the Jordan era doesn't mean shyt. KJ wouldn't win it in the Shaq, Duncan, Kobe era either. Not to mention that you're comparing eras where all statistics are down. Use your head. You really believe KJ would average 12.2 assists in today's NBA?

[GP_20]

No mention of Johnson's team having a pace roughly 10% higher than Nash's team? Interesting...



Not mentioning that KJ had playmakers on his team that were dishing 6+ assists per game while Nash had....no other playmakers on his team thus Nash got all his team's assists?

2 can play this game

[GP_20]

Playing in the Jordan era doesn't mean shyt. KJ wouldn't win it in the Shaq, Duncan, Kobe era either. Not to mention that you're comparing eras where all statistics are down. Use your head. You really believe KJ would average 12.2 assists in today's NBA?
If he got 12+ assists while he was playing with another playmaker which often set the offense and got 6 assists for himself...then yes with a team that fully relied on KJ to make the plays (like the Suns did for Nash) he can get 12+ again

[magnax1]

Why the hell do the assists even matter? It's not like there is a being in this world who would think KJ was a better passer then Nash, and that's because he wasn't and it wasn't close either. KJ was a good passer, but I don't know if I've ever seen someone rank him top 10, and definitely not top 5 ever. Where Nash is pretty much universally accepted as one of the three or four best passers ever.

[Dave3]

Not mentioning that KJ had playmakers on his team that were dishing 6+ assists per game while Nash had....no other playmakers on his team thus Nash got all his team's assists?

2 can play this game
You're the one making the argument. You should be the one to include every point relevant. Comparing decimal differences in assists while neglecting drastic pace differences isn't a complete argument.

[L.Kizzle]

Elvin Hayes.

I don't think the Kevin Johnson vote will work this time Glove. KJ is a good player, but not top 45 All-Time good.

[L.Kizzle]

If he got 12+ assists while he was playing with another playmaker which often set the offense and got 6 assists for himself...then yes with a team that fully relied on KJ to make the plays (like the Suns did for Nash) he can get 12+ again
So you're basically saying KJ would avg damn near 20 assist with Nash's Suns since he didn't have another playmaker?

:biggums:

KJ got beat out of All-NBA 1st teams guard by not only Jordan, Drexler, Stockton and Magic but Timmy Hardaway and Mark Price. Explain that buddy.

[bdreason]

How did Isiah end up 25th?!? And LeBron at 11th? :eek:

[pauk]

How did Isiah end up 25th?!? And LeBron at 11th? :eek:

Are you gona keep whining about it in every thread?

[Boston C's]

Elvin Hayes

[MiamiThrice]

Dwight Howard
http://www.wallpapersd.com/media/images/8a48b7d12e.jpg
-Led 2009 Magic to the NBA Finals
-6x NBA Allstar
-3x DPOY
-3rd Best player in the NBA in 2009 and 2010 after LeBron, Wade
-4x all nba defensive 1st team
-5x All NBA 1st team
-1x All Nba 2nd team
-Best player on the 2012-2013 Lakers
-1 Gold Medal
-18.4 PPG 13.0 RPG 2.2 BPG Career Averages

Anyone honestly think replacing Dwight Howard with dudes like kevin johnson makes those magic teams better? LOL

[TheeBeast]

I'll go with Elvin Hayes

[coin24]

The list is already pretty bad, but if KJ makes the top 50 players of all time then shut it down...:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[KG215]

About time. About 15-20 spots late though.



Kevin Johnson


His career is about the same level as Nash's. Needs to be voted in.

So not only do you think Gary Payton is a top 30 player of all-time but Kevin Johnson is a top 45 player of all-time? Not only that, but you're acting like it's some huge travesty Payton wasn't voted in the top 30 and Kevin Johnson hasn't been voted in, yet.

[BIZARRO]

Dominique Wilkins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3AVlAuDX8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noYgyOEmCzw

He'd go on equal footing with MJ and Bird, regular season or playoffs, etc.. Toe to toe against them in their primes. Just a level beyond anyone left.

You guys are going to name Kevin Johnson and others, but they were not in the class of Dominique Wilkins. Oh how people forget. :facepalm

[nycelt84]

Elvin Hayes

[JellyBean]

George Gervin.

[Dragonyeuw]

Dennis Rodman

[miles berg]

Dennis Rodman for sure.

[wally_world]

the big E

[BoutPractice]

Kevin Johnson is not comparable to Nash, even if they are both point guards who played for the Phoenix Suns.

Steve Nash is a two time MVP who, whether you agree with those MVPs or not, was considered the best point guard in the league for much of the second half of the 00s.
Kevin Johnson had neither of those outstanding honours. In fact there isn't one "outstanding" accomplishment associated with the name Kevin Johnson.

Nash led the NBA in assists per game 5 times, got close a few more years. Johnson didn't do it even once.

Nash is also blessed with Stockton-like longevity, while Johnson started declining in his early 30s and retired at 33.

[MasterDurant24]

Gotta be out of Hayes, Wilkins, Gervin, or Sam Jones to me.

[inclinerator]

for the last time ray allen

[bdreason]

Are you gona keep whining about it in every thread?



ummm I haven't posted in one of these threads since like the 8th pick. I'm just trying to figure out how the 2nd greatest PG of all-time, who led his team to two NBA Championship's, ends up #25. Entire list is a joke to be honest, but please, carry on.

[dyna]

Elvin Hayes

[ManlyStanley69]

for the last time ray allen

I vote for Ray Allen, also.

Great Player, good abs, and best calves EVER.

[JMT]

Elvin Hayes a good 15 spots too late.

[fpliii]

ummm I haven't posted in one of these threads since like the 8th pick. I'm just trying to figure out how the 2nd greatest PG of all-time, who led his team to two NBA Championship's, ends up #25. Entire list is a joke to be honest, but please, carry on.

I have him third behind the Big O as well, but good to see someone else who rates him highly

anyhow, my vote is for Nate again...I don't have a dog in this, but since we're going to 50, it'd be nice if he made it in (personally I'd like Gervin, Nique, Hayes and Rodman to make it in as well, with maybe a couple of other current players like CP3/KD/Dwight getting some love as well)

[Round Mound]

Bob McAdoo

This

[LamarOdom]

lol at Gary Payton over Pierce.

Vote: Pierce

[colts19]

Elvin Hayes

[Deuce Bigalow]

#44 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

9- Elvin Hayes
4- Dennis Rodman
2- Paul Pierce
2- Bob McAdoo
2- Paul Arizin
1- Kevin Johnson
1- Dwight Howard
1- Dominique Wilkins
1- George Gervin
1- Nate Thurmond

[RRR3]

Pitchin' Paul Arizin

[fpliii]

Current Results

9- Elvin Hayes
4- Dennis Rodman
2- Paul Pierce
2- Bob McAdoo
1- Paul Arizin
1- Kevin Johnson
1- Dwight Howard
1- Dominique Wilkins
1- George Gervin
1- Nate Thurmond

good threads bro

who do you think the final 7 guys will be?

[Deuce Bigalow]

good threads bro

who do you think the final 7 guys will be?
Hayes, Rodman, Arizin, McAdoo, Wilkins, Pierce, Gervin.