#54 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nate Thurmond was voted the #53 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

14.5 PPG | 14.5 RPG | 2.6 APG

7

[MiamiThrice]

Pau Gasol
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.179239!/img/httpImage/image.jpg

-2x NBA Champion (2009, 2010)
-Led 2010 Lakers to the championship as the best player
-4 x NBA Allstar
-18.7 PPG, 9.2 RPG 3.2 APG career numbers
-3 All NBA teams
-Two silver medals as the best player
-One of the most skilled bigmen of all-time
-Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain

[pauk]

:facepalm

Reggie Miller....

[ukballer]

-Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain

:oldlol:

Anyway.... Ray Allen.

[G.O.A.T]

Reggie Miller will be my choice.

Billy Cunningham next.

[BoutPractice]

By all objective measures, Ray Allen has had a better career than Reggie Miller.

We're talking about a 10 time all star who was once top 10 in MVP voting, was consistent with a peak of 26 points per game (and more assists/rebounds, with some great statistical playoff runs in the mid 00s), has a championship and is widely regarded as the best 3 point shooter of all time while still being recognized as more than a one-dimensional player.

In contrast, Reggie Miller is a 5 time all star who was at best considered the 13th most valuable player in the league, has no championship and whose accomplishments from downtown have been statistically surpassed by Allen even though those were really his only noteworthy accomplishments aside from a few memorable clutch games.

[pauk]

By all objective measures, Ray Allen has had a better career than Reggie Miller.

We're talking about a 10 time all star who was once top 10 in MVP voting, was consistent with a peak of 26 points per game (and more assists/rebounds, with some great statistical playoff runs in the mid 00s), has a championship and is widely regarded as the best 3 point shooter of all time while still being recognized as more than a one-dimensional player.

In contrast, Reggie Miller is a 5 time all star who was at best considered the 13th most valuable player in the league, has no championship and whose accomplishments from downtown have been statistically surpassed by Allen even though those were really his only noteworthy accomplishments aside from a few memorable clutch games.


Oh please! Ray Allen was in a weaker SG era which allowed him extra all-star selections, Reggie had MUCH nastier competition at the SG spot, he had to battle that all-star spot with Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin, Dale Ellis, Joe Dumars, Dan Majerle, Latrell Sprewell, Allan Houston, Reggie Lewis and so on... all players that would have more or less kept Ray Allen out of the all-star game at certain seasons..... the last time Ray Allen was selected to the all-star game was 2011, averaging 16 ppg... no way in hell he would have been in all-star during Reggies era... not to mention Reggie would have been another guy that would had battled that spot with Ray Allen.......... Ray Allen had majority of time only Kobe Bryant / Dwyane Wade to battle with..... who else? And its not because he was so good, but because the caliber of SGs were extremly much weaker overall in 00s and today...... During Reggies time even guys like Drazen Petrovic (who averaged 22-3-4 @ 52% FG, 45% 3PT, 87% FT) went completely unnoticed in the all-star selection department...

2nd of all.... Ray Allen was not the player Reggie Miller was.... the intangibles, killer instinct, legacy, longevity, consistency and character which no on paper awards or statistics can measure is what sepparates Reggie from Ray.... The name Reggie Miller is synonymous with clutch...... He was a guy that lived for the biggest moments and made the biggest moments....

As Reggie Miller put it: "You might make your first 10 shots and everything is going great, but when the game is on the line, those other 10 don't mean anything."

There are 6 things he is in argument for being the most successful at:

1. Shooter
2. Clutch performer
3. Competitor
4. Greatest Pacer ever
5. Greatest of the ball/screen player ever
6. Work Ethic

Reggie’s loyalty to the Pacers organization is one of the things people often overlook. Only John Stockton and Karl Malone (with Utah) played more games with one franchise than Reggie did with Indiana...

Reggie played 1,389 games. He owned that Indiana city, even more so than Peyton Manning did during his tenure there... He was the best perimeter shooter that this game has ever seen and one of the greatest clutch shooters of all-time.... He knew he was a marked man and he relished it, especially in the big stage....

Over the span of his 18 years with Indiana he has hit some kindof clutch shot in every close game... If there is any gamewinner count out there that dates way back dont be surprised if Reggie Miller as at #1 on that list.... If the basketball term "clutch" was in the dictionary then Reggie Millers picture would be next to it....

He was also a nasty competitor with the confidence of GOD and legendary trashtalking (which he always backed up) which created historic NBA drama and memories.... He could get into peoples heads like no other and once he did he would play mind tricks, he was even the only one that ever got under Jordans skin and not only once....

Jordan said: “I really don’t dislike playing against anybody in the league, but playing Reggie Miller drives me nuts.”

There is a reason this hall of famer was Michael Jordans biggest nemesis at the SG spot....

While many players hated Reggie during their playing days, they all respected him. Kobe Bryant said Reggie was the toughest player he has ever had to guard. I’m sure there are plenty of others that would agree........ and keep in mind that Kobe has played against Michael Jordan...

A Hall of Fame career is about more than how many Championship rings you have. Robert Horry has seven of them, and Adam Morrison has two. I’ll leave it at that. Who is to say Dan Marino is less of a player because he never won a Super Bowl? Sometimes people need to take a step back and look at the whole product, instead of just focusing on one piece of it.....

Reggie at his prime would have torched Ray Allen and broke that kid down mentally all the time... and after that game he would be ready to face other shooters who were even better than Ray Allen as competitors or shooters aswell like Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Drazen Petrovic, Dale Ellis etc...

During Reggies time Ray Allen would have not even been honored as the shooter he is/was... those players came in a dozen at Reggies time (and many were even better shooters than Ray)....... he would battle that honor with Larry Bird, Reggie Miller, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Dell Curry, Dale Ellis, Mark Price, Drazen Petrovic, Jeff Hornacek just to name a few....... today he got only what? Steve Nash? Dirk maybe? lol...........

Ray and Reggie are similar in the way they shoot/play (for at least 3 quarters and regular season) as SGs, but they are different imo, the intangibles/killer instinct/mind Reggie possessed make them two COMPLETELY different players.... and something which in my opinion makes Reggie better than Ray Allen.... its popular to say Ray Allen was a better ballhandler, passer but that there is nowhere close in significant difference, i mean not something that made him impact the game better than what Reggies intangibles/killer instinct/mind did.....

Seriously, Ray Allen is starting to get overrated............. hell even the screen/of the ball tricks/moves is what he himself said to have studied/stolen from Reggie.... he lives his entire life just to throw as many 3's as possible just to get that record at least, he had Reggie and that record in mind all the time, immediately running to him and emotionally hugging him at the scorers table once he broke that record..... Reggie is the man, Ray Allen is the pupile...

[coin24]

Ray Allen:cheers:

[Sakkreth]

Reggie Miller

[pauk]

Ray Allen:cheers:

:no:

Put them two in a Playoff series... and then you will see the ridicilous difference...

Infact, they did play 1 playoff series against eachother, guess what happened? Reggie humiliated him.... here is some highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eOuUO0lif4

Reggie was THE better player and SHOOTER (in any department), i couldnt care less for how sexy Rays jumpshot looks visually or how many championship rings he got as a 3rd/4th best player in his team (or whatever) or how many all-star selections he got in a SG weakened era or how much more FGs he chucked from the 3PT line to beat his record...

Funny part is i absolutely adore Ray Allen... but when people say "Ray > Reggie", somebody is getting overrated/underrated or somebody doesnt know the context of their careers and them as players enough...

[coin24]

:no:

Put them two in a Playoff series... and then you will see the ridicilous difference...

Infact, they did play 1 playoff series against eachother, guess what happened? Reggie humiliated him.... here is some highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eOuUO0lif4

Reggie was THE better player and SHOOTER (in any department), i couldnt care less for how sexy Rays jumpshot looks visually or how many championship rings he got as a 3rd/4th best player in his team (or whatever) or how many all-star selections he got in a SG weakened era or how much more FGs he chucked from the 3PT line to beat his record...

Funny part is i absolutely adore Ray Allen... but when people say "Ray > Reggie", somebody is getting overrated/underrated or somebody doesnt know the context of their careers and them as players enough...


You actually make a few good points:applause:

I was going to vote for Reggie next, i just feel Allen is a spot higher..
Rays had some big playoff moments and game winners aswell. Plus being the all time leader in 3s, career longevity, NBA champion (he was 2nd/3rd best that yr in Boston)... Not counting the ones your boy might win for Ray in the future:oldlol:

Always been a fan of Rays game. He wasnt always a spot up shooter, he was a beast on the Bucks and Sonics... I think he was underutilised in Boston personally...

[coin24]

Actually this is a pretty cool Reggie mix:bowdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dacOFE0nomg&feature=related

[Kblaze8855]

Oh please! Ray Allen was in a weaker SG era which allowed him extra all-star selections, Reggie had MUCH nastier competition at the SG spot

People nobody will even remember were named all stars by the coaches over reggie. Guys like Mookie Blaylock and Dana Barros. Kenny Anderson. Terrell Brandon. An older Joe dumars.

The only two seasons in 19 years he got MVP votes...Smits got exactly the same number in one and Jalen Rose tied him in the other. Reggie just was not thought highly of. Hes gonna win. But there will probably be 35 players after this flat out better at the game.

He will win off his name. Nothing more. Huge name. But its...whatever. People voted Gary Payton 28th last time....

These things happen.

Reggie Miller over Kevin Durant approaches the dumbest thing I can conceive a basketball fan actually believing. Not like in his near 20 years he actually did something Durant didnt. Lost in a finals and was all nba 3rd team twice.

Reggie as his best was maybe approaching second year Kevin Durant.

[Nick Young]

I vote Lebron

[nycelt84]

Sam Jones

[haji_d_robertas]

Kevin Durant

[BoutPractice]

pauk > Reggie Miller is one of my favourite players too. He was by all accounts a fascinating character and the kind of villain you wanted to root for. He always gave you interesting moments.

But I try to distinguish between "favourite players" and "greatest players".

And based on your argument, I still don't see the clear case for Reggie over Ray Allen.
Loyalty, longevity and name recognition are things that may tip the balance if two players are comparable in achievements, but I don't think that's the case here.

If Reggie's "intangibles" were so off the charts, why did Larry Brown criticize his leadership? If all-star standards were so high in the 90s, how do you explain Dana Barros?

As for this, "he lives his entire life just to throw as many 3's as possible just to get that record at least" I don't think there's been any evidence of this claim throughout Ray Allen's career. What defines a great 3 point shooter is both volume and efficiency, and Ray Allen has been one of the most efficient 3 point shooters in NBA history.

[Heilige]

Sam Jones

[Boston C's]

Ray Allen

[KG215]

Pau Gasol
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.179239!/img/httpImage/image.jpg

-2x NBA Champion (2009, 2010)
-Led 2010 Lakers to the championship as the best player
-4 x NBA Allstar
-18.7 PPG, 9.2 RPG 3.2 APG career numbers
-3 All NBA teams
-Two silver medals as the best player
-One of the most skilled bigmen of all-time
-Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain

Really? Best player on the 2010 Lakers? And then you use "Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain" to "bolster" his resume? How in the hell does making the cover of a video game make someone a better basketball player than someone else? That has to be the lamest attempt I've ever seen at trying to make a case for a player. Good trolling job, though.

[DatAsh]

People nobody will even remember were named all stars by the coaches over reggie. Guys like Mookie Blaylock and Dana Barros. Kenny Anderson. Terrell Brandon. An older Joe dumars.

The only two seasons in 19 years he got MVP votes...Smits got exactly the same number in one and Jalen Rose tied him in the other. Reggie just was not thought highly of. Hes gonna win. But there will probably be 35 players after this flat out better at the game.

He will win off his name. Nothing more. Huge name. But its...whatever. People voted Gary Payton 28th last time....

These things happen.

Reggie Miller over Kevin Durant approaches the dumbest thing I can conceive a basketball fan actually believing. Not like in his near 20 years he actually did something Durant didnt. Lost in a finals and was all nba 3rd team twice.

Reggie as his best was maybe approaching second year Kevin Durant.

I think you're undervaluing the importance of longevity. Current Kevin Durant is a better player than any version of Reggie Miller - not debatable - but not so much as to say that an extra 13 years of Reggie doesn't arguably give you a better shot at a championship(s).

[crisoner]

I got Reggie Miller now for what he did to NYK alone.

http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/reggie_miller1.jpg

[JellyBean]

This might be a reach but; Tiny Archibald.
6x NBA All-Star
3x All-NBA First Team
2x All-NBA Second Team
Scoring and Assist leader in the same year
NBA All-Star game MVP
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

[JellyBean]

I got Reggie Miller now for what he did to NYK alone.

http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/reggie_miller1.jpg

Dang. Reggie got some serious game. That is a nice looking babe Reggie is chilling with.

[Heavincent]

Ray Allen

[Whoah10115]

You know what, I just realized no one has ranked Kevin Johnson.



Kevin Johnson or Reggie...KJ with the better peak, but I don't know if that's enough. Ray Allen also has a real shout here...this is hard. I wish Reggie had gotten a fair shot at better stats. Would be much easier to rank him.



I wanna say KJ tho...but then again...

[Kblaze8855]

This might be a reach but; Tiny Archibald.
6x NBA All-Star
3x All-NBA First Team
2x All-NBA Second Team
Scoring and Assist leader in the same year
NBA All-Star game MVP
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team



Its not a reach. People are voting for Reggie miller. A guy who would be like...the 12th best player in the current western conference. Tim made more all star games, 3 all nba first teams and 2 second teams while Reggie was never close to making 1, Nate led the league in scoring and assists while reggie could only score and didnt do that at a high level. Reggie got 2 5th place MVP votes in his entire career. Nate got 48...FIRST place votes and got them in 5 different seasons. Nate was ranked over guys who got in 20 picks ago at times.

You have people voting for Reggie talking about what he did t the Knicks...which is...lose like 3 times and even when he won...not really matter.

Reggie is a media fabrication and product of extreme nostalgia. I hope he gets in now just so I can stop reading his name next to bullshit. this was 75 - 100 last time.




75. Vince Carter
76. Spencer Haywood
77. Ray Allen
78. Dennis Johnson
79. Paul Pierce
80. Dikembe Mutombo
81. Connie Hawkins
82. Chris Webber
83. Chris Mullin
84. Grant Hill
85. Mitch Richmond
86. Dan Issel
87. 'Jumpin' Joe Fulks
88. Alonzo Mourning
89. Shawn Kemp
90. Mark Price
91. Anfernee 'Penny' Hardaway
92. Tommy Heinsohn
93. George McGinnis
94. Tim Hardaway
95. Mel Daniels
96. Bob Davies
97. Tom Chambers
98. Maurice Cheeks
99. Ben Wallace
100. Mark Aguirre


You offer Reggie Miller in exchange for all those guys like...9 of them would consider it. Maybe. And thats 75-100.

Once people who were 10-18 during the 90s are no longer the majority online Reggie Miller wont be top 100 in a lot of these things.

And while he may in fact be top 100...in...greatness...or whatever?

He didnt play basketball better than Andrew Toney.

But hes one of those guys who that is ignored for. Usually those guys like....won things. Cousy I get. He...won things. Was elite in his time. Reggie won nothing Paul Westphal didnt and was considered worse in his time. But 15-30 year olds sure...remember him making 11 shots. Thats really all it takes.

[StateOfMind12]

Kay Dee Trey Five

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/templates/93399.jpg

Kevin Durant


-Really big dick
-2nd in MVP in 2010 and 2012
-Dominant peak
-3 All-NBA First team
-3 scoring titles
-2nd best player in the league in 2012
-Legitimate superstar unlike these other pseudo stars.
-On the NBA 2k13 Cover

[coin24]

Dang. Reggie got some serious game. That is a nice looking babe Reggie is chilling with.


Ummm that's Jeremy Lin on a Friday night.. :oldlol:

[Figlo]

pau gasol

[fsvr54]

This is getting ridiculous at this point. We should just stop at 53.

[colts19]

Reggie Miller. His great moments in the play offs do mean more than all star voting in my mind.

[crisoner]

This is getting ridiculous at this point. We should just stop at 53.

I kind of like this right now.

We are not talking about the mainstream players to say.
Nobody has agendas just remembering the other great players at this point.

[crisoner]

Dang. Reggie got some serious game. That is a nice looking babe Reggie is chilling with.

Reggie's ex wife was dope as well....

http://foreverdunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/miller2.jpeg

The belly button tat Reggie got has to go...no homo

[crisoner]

I got Reggie Miller now for what he did to NYK alone.

http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/reggie_miller1.jpg

Oh shoot...found this crazy article about that girl with Reggie!!!

http://www.oddjack.com/2009/former-nba-star-reggie-miller-likes-married-women-08-10.php

[QUOTE]The guy likes

[KG215]

Did not know Reggie Miller had a bellybutton tattoo. Thought that was something reserved for girls, and even then it's an odd spot for one.

[BlackVVaves]

Oh please! Ray Allen was in a weaker SG era which allowed him extra all-star selections, Reggie had MUCH nastier competition at the SG spot, he had to battle that all-star spot with Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin, Dale Ellis, Joe Dumars, Dan Majerle, Latrell Sprewell, Allan Houston, Reggie Lewis and so on... all players that would have more or less kept Ray Allen out of the all-star game at certain seasons..... the last time Ray Allen was selected to the all-star game was 2011, averaging 16 ppg... no way in hell he would have been in all-star during Reggies era... not to mention Reggie would have been another guy that would had battled that spot with Ray Allen.......... Ray Allen had majority of time only Kobe Bryant / Dwyane Wade to battle with..... who else? And its not because he was so good, but because the caliber of SGs were extremly much weaker overall in 00s and today...... During Reggies time even guys like Drazen Petrovic (who averaged 22-3-4 @ 52% FG, 45% 3PT, 87% FT) went completely unnoticed in the all-star selection department...

2nd of all.... Ray Allen was not the player Reggie Miller was.... the intangibles, killer instinct, legacy, longevity, consistency and character which no on paper awards or statistics can measure is what sepparates Reggie from Ray.... The name Reggie Miller is synonymous with clutch...... He was a guy that lived for the biggest moments and made the biggest moments....

As Reggie Miller put it: "You might make your first 10 shots and everything is going great, but when the game is on the line, those other 10 don't mean anything."

There are 6 things he is in argument for being the most successful at:

1. Shooter
2. Clutch performer
3. Competitor
4. Greatest Pacer ever
5. Greatest of the ball/screen player ever
6. Work Ethic

Reggie’s loyalty to the Pacers organization is one of the things people often overlook. Only John Stockton and Karl Malone (with Utah) played more games with one franchise than Reggie did with Indiana...

Reggie played 1,389 games. He owned that Indiana city, even more so than Peyton Manning did during his tenure there... He was the best perimeter shooter that this game has ever seen and one of the greatest clutch shooters of all-time.... He knew he was a marked man and he relished it, especially in the big stage....

Over the span of his 18 years with Indiana he has hit some kindof clutch shot in every close game... If there is any gamewinner count out there that dates way back dont be surprised if Reggie Miller as at #1 on that list.... If the basketball term "clutch" was in the dictionary then Reggie Millers picture would be next to it....

He was also a nasty competitor with the confidence of GOD and legendary trashtalking (which he always backed up) which created historic NBA drama and memories.... He could get into peoples heads like no other and once he did he would play mind tricks, he was even the only one that ever got under Jordans skin and not only once....

Jordan said: “I really don’t dislike playing against anybody in the league, but playing Reggie Miller drives me nuts.”

There is a reason this hall of famer was Michael Jordans biggest nemesis at the SG spot....

While many players hated Reggie during their playing days, they all respected him. Kobe Bryant said Reggie was the toughest player he has ever had to guard. I’m sure there are plenty of others that would agree........ and keep in mind that Kobe has played against Michael Jordan...

A Hall of Fame career is about more than how many Championship rings you have. Robert Horry has seven of them, and Adam Morrison has two. I’ll leave it at that. Who is to say Dan Marino is less of a player because he never won a Super Bowl? Sometimes people need to take a step back and look at the whole product, instead of just focusing on one piece of it.....

Reggie at his prime would have torched Ray Allen and broke that kid down mentally all the time... and after that game he would be ready to face other shooters who were even better than Ray Allen as competitors or shooters aswell like Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Drazen Petrovic, Dale Ellis etc...

During Reggies time Ray Allen would have not even been honored as the shooter he is/was... those players came in a dozen at Reggies time (and many were even better shooters than Ray)....... he would battle that honor with Larry Bird, Reggie Miller, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Dell Curry, Dale Ellis, Mark Price, Drazen Petrovic, Jeff Hornacek just to name a few....... today he got only what? Steve Nash? Dirk maybe? lol...........

Ray and Reggie are similar in the way they shoot/play (for at least 3 quarters and regular season) as SGs, but they are different imo, the intangibles/killer instinct/mind Reggie possessed make them two COMPLETELY different players.... and something which in my opinion makes Reggie better than Ray Allen.... its popular to say Ray Allen was a better ballhandler, passer but that there is nowhere close in significant difference, i mean not something that made him impact the game better than what Reggies intangibles/killer instinct/mind did.....

Seriously, Ray Allen is starting to get overrated............. hell even the screen/of the ball tricks/moves is what he himself said to have studied/stolen from Reggie.... he lives his entire life just to throw as many 3's as possible just to get that record at least, he had Reggie and that record in mind all the time, immediately running to him and emotionally hugging him at the scorers table once he broke that record..... Reggie is the man, Ray Allen is the pupile...

Just want to say, you're on some off-the-grid drugs if you think Reggie Miller, who was never even close to being the best at his position, let alone best player in the league...AND never displayed even remotely consistent domination...owned Indiana more than PEYTON MANNING, who was the best quarterback in the league for much of the 2000s, has 3 MVPs to show for it, and brought Indiana a CHAMPIONSHIP.

Seriously? I understand you're trying to make a point for Reggie over Allen, but don't embellish the truth, or flat out revise history. Reggie isn't even Top 5 All time at the SG position, while Manning will likely retire as Top 3 QBs in NFL history.

I thought I read somewhere that you reside in Europe somewhere? It truly shows in that statement, because not many people who lived in America during the 90s and 2000s would ever say Reggie Miller meant more to Indiana than Peyton Manning did.

That just bothered me, just wanted to say something. Hope I helped educate ya there.

Carry on.

[BlackVVaves]

Really? Best player on the 2010 Lakers? And then you use "Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain" to "bolster" his resume? How in the hell does making the cover of a video game make someone a better basketball player than someone else? That has to be the lamest attempt I've ever seen at trying to make a case for a player. Good trolling job, though.

And that aptitude for stupidity is precisely why he's atop my distinguished Ignore list.

[Kblaze8855]

His great moments in the play offs do mean more than all star voting in my mind.

What great moments might those be? When he hit that game winner in 97 and lost the series playing like Cuttino mobley in game 7? When he had the 25 in the 4th vs the Knicks and lost? When he hit that 40 footer vs the Nets and lost? When they beat the Knicks with Jordan already having been taken out and then played the magic and had 12 points on 38% shooting in game 7 to lose? Was it the next year when...once again with no Jordan in the way...he put up 3-18 shooting for 8 points as Alan Houston sent him home? Was it one of the 8 or 9 times he lost in the first round(was hurt one year vs I wanna say...the Hawks)?

Reggie Miller had moments ESPN makes people remember. He didnt actually....do...very much....with those moments.

The coaches were not making Reggie an all star because they did not think he was that good. At least two HOF coaches are on record saying he wasnt the best player on his own teams in his prime......

And really...

There were a lot of guys people put over Reggie on his own team:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2000/04/21/taylor_mailbag/


Jalen Rose (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/2636/) for the Most Improved Player award because he went from being a spark off the bench to being the best player on the best team in the Eastern Conference.

And that was from 2000.

I remember plenty of people(George Karl being one I believe...when he was the sonics coach) calling Rik smits better than Reggie.

Dude just suddenly got respected in retrospect in 2002 and people forgot the previous 15 years where he was a nobody 90% of the time.

Never has a player done less to be so known.

At least Pistol Pete was one of the best players in the league.

Reggie had teammates, coaches, and long time basketball people flat out calling him worse than a role player. But 20 years pass and hes better than guys his team would have traded 2 of him for.

Much clearer view from decades later I guess.

[DaHeezy]

I'm kind of surprised Chief hasn't had a sniff

[Fudge]

Ray Allen

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like more people had Parish ahead of Mchale at the time than they do now. Not sure why. I remember a lot of people being on some "Heart and soul of the team" kinda talk about Robert.

[Legends66NBA7]

Since there has been a mention of peak play in a lot of these threads, I do wonder if Neil Johnston should get a vote or two coming up. Not saying he deserves to be mentioned now, but he should be in the running and not get overlooked.

[Fudge]

I feel like more people had Parish ahead of Mchale at the time than they do now. Not sure why. I remember a lot of people being on some "Heart and soul of the team" kinda talk about Robert.
Completely forgot about Parish. I'll leave my vote as Ray and take Parish at 55.

[Freedom Kid7]

Hal Greer. Complete game, solid teammate, great longevity, etc.

[L.Kizzle]

What great moments might those be? When he hit that game winner in 97 and lost the series playing like Cuttino mobley in game 7? When he had the 25 in the 4th vs the Knicks and lost? When he hit that 40 footer vs the Nets and lost? When they beat the Knicks with Jordan already having been taken out and then played the magic and had 12 points on 38% shooting in game 7 to lose? Was it the next year when...once again with no Jordan in the way...he put up 3-18 shooting for 8 points as Alan Houston sent him home? Was it one of the 8 or 9 times he lost in the first round(was hurt one year vs I wanna say...the Hawks)?

Reggie Miller had moments ESPN makes people remember. He didnt actually....do...very much....with those moments.

The coaches were not making Reggie an all star because they did not think he was that good. At least two HOF coaches are on record saying he wasnt the best player on his own teams in his prime......

And really...

There were a lot of guys people put over Reggie on his own team:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2000/04/21/taylor_mailbag/



And that was from 2000.

I remember plenty of people(George Karl being one I believe...when he was the sonics coach) calling Rik smits better than Reggie.

Dude just suddenly got respected in retrospect in 2002 and people forgot the previous 15 years where he was a nobody 90% of the time.

Never has a player done less to be so known.

At least Pistol Pete was one of the best players in the league.

Reggie had teammates, coaches, and long time basketball people flat out calling him worse than a role player. But 20 years pass and hes better than guys his team would have traded 2 of him for.

Much clearer view from decades later I guess.
No one thinks Reggie is a better talent than guys like Mitch Richmond or Chris Mullin, guys from the same era. But he did more with the talent he had in his bod then they did with theres. It's not about how good you are, it's how you put those goods to use.

[Kblaze8855]

Having a team that can win without asking much of you isn't doing more with your skills. If Mitch could score 17 and his team be just fine he likely wins more. Not like he was just powering teams to success they had no business getting.

Pacers were a so what team for quite a while and he want doing anything about it

[Deuce Bigalow]

This might be a reach but; Tiny Archibald.
6x NBA All-Star
3x All-NBA First Team
2x All-NBA Second Team
Scoring and Assist leader in the same year
NBA All-Star game MVP
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
That's a good pick. Better than Miller, Allen, Pau, Jones, Durant(too early), and Greer votes imo.

Archibald vote for me as well.

[L.Kizzle]

That's a good pick. Better than Miller, Allen, Pau, Jones, Durant(too early), and Greer votes imo.

Archibald vote for me as well.
Not better than Billy Cunnilingus.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not better than Billy Cunnilingus.
Tiny led the league in scoring and assists one time, Billy han't led in any category
Tiny 6 all star teams, Billy 4
Both have 3 all-nba first teams, Tiny has 1 more all-nba selection that wasn't first team
Both have been top 5 in mvp voting twice
Both have a ring averaging similar numbers, but Tiny shot 45% while Billy shot 38%
Tiny played 4 more seasons in the NBA which matters since Billy only played 10 NBA seasons. I think Archibald gets the edge overall because he has accomplished more in the NBA.

[dyna]

Ray Allen

[MasterDurant24]

Not better than Billy Cunnilingus.

I don't really see much of an argument for Cunningham over Archibald tbh. Forgot all about him though until this point.

[L.Kizzle]

Tiny led the league in scoring and assists one time, Billy han't led in any category
Tiny 6 all star teams, Billy 4
Both have 3 all-nba first teams, Tiny has 1 more all-nba selection that wasn't first team
Both have been top 5 in mvp voting twice
Both have a ring averaging similar numbers, but Tiny shot 45% while Billy shot 38%
Tiny played 4 more seasons in the NBA which matters since Billy only played 10 NBA seasons. I think Archibald gets the edge overall because he has accomplished more in the NBA.
So he got equal accolades in 4 less seasons ...

[Deuce Bigalow]

So he got equal accolades in 4 less seasons ...
Archibald - 1x Scoring champion and 1x assist leader
Cunningham never accomplished that so it's not equal.

[L.Kizzle]

I don't really see much of an argument for Cunningham over Archibald tbh. Forgot all about him though until this point.
What's your argument for Tiny? Besides that great 34/11 season.

In 13 seasons, Tiny avg over 20+ five times, in 9 seasons Billy did it on less (not including the two in the ABA along with an ABA MVP.) He was also a much better defender and was no slouch as distributing for his position.

He was the clear cut 2nd or 3rd best at the small forward spot behind Hondo and Barry.

Tiny at the PG, was behind Frazier and was not the clear cut 2nd best with Bing and Pearl Monroe around.

Barry and Hondo >>> Frazier and Bing or Monroe, take your pick.

[SyRyanYang]

Miller please

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are recieving the bulk of the votes, but let us see how they compare to Tiny Archibald and Neil Johnston.

Ray Allen
NBA champion (2008)
10

[WockaVodka]

People are only voting for Ray and Reggie because that is the only player these guys know. Honestly, this voting should have stopped after #50.

[jlip]

Does Jerry Lucas not exist?

[Legends66NBA7]

Does Jerry Lucas not exist?

He's there too.

He would above Johnston for me. Nice call out.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are tied for the lead with 6 votes each.

[1987_Lakers]

Ray Allen

[kurple]

Jesus

[Whoah10115]

Jesus



They're already on #55.

[IGOTGAME]

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are recieving the bulk of the votes, but let us see how they compare to Tiny Archibald and Neil Johnston.

Ray Allen
NBA champion (2008)
10