Scottie Pippen: Ultimate Defender

[ispin69]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk&

Never got defensive player of the year. :mad:

[9512]

...and didn't get MVP in 94-95:mad:

[TheBigVeto]

He deserved DPOY but not MVP.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Great vid! Shame that he never got the DPOY.

[Pushxx]

Lol @ kids who say he deserved an MVP.

[bond10]

Video is kind of whack. Just shows a bunch of steals with some awful adult film music on.

[ispin69]

Allstar Game 1994 MVP :bowdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlOCXLt-9DU

[Round Mound]

Robbed from the DPOY by Mutombo.

Lead the Modern League In Defensive Rating as a SF :bowdown:

[Nevaeh]

Lol @ kids who say he deserved an MVP.

He was just one call away from winning Finals MVP as well.
:rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

Lol @ kids who say he deserved an MVP.

He had a case for 1994.

[9512]

I guess a player has to lead the league in scoring to be considered MVP contenders.:confusedshrug:

[KOBE143]

Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1YchiFv-5M

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Whoah10115]

Should have been the runner up to the MVP in both 94 and 95...in 95, he was 3rd and had a real argument to win. Could have won DPOTY either season and most certainly should have won it in 95. Dikembe was superb, but Pippen was simply better. Hell, Robinson was better in 95 than Mutombo was.

[Magic bird]

No way Pippen gets MVP playing alongside Jordan (No matter how good he plays) Playing without Jordan, That would be a different question..

[I<3NBA]

I would say Kobe is the ultimate defender. he is able to stop his 4 teammates from scoring.

[Toizumi]

Pippen and Tim Duncan are the best defenders to never win DPOY and I would definitely take them over most DPOY winners.

[Whoah10115]

I would say Kobe is the ultimate defender. he is able to stop his 4 teammates from scoring.



I would say you're a loser. But you'll keep at it.

[Whoah10115]

Pippen and Tim Duncan are the best defenders to never win DPOY and I would definitely take them over most DPOY winners.



I don't know but the only year Duncan has a great argument to win was 07...and it's not because he had a great argument but because no one stood out and people talk shit on Camby, without much basis.

[97 bulls]

Pippen not winning a DPOY was a travesty. Especially in 95. What he did that year was more impressive than Kobe 06 season and Wades 09 season. Or Mcgradys 03 season. He was everything for that team.

[Doranku]

Pippen not winning a DPOY was a travesty. Especially in 95. What he did that year was more impressive than Kobe 06 season and Wades 09 season. Or Mcgradys 03 season. He was everything for that team.

Are you f*cking high?

[97 bulls]

Are you f*cking high?
What makes their season more impressive?

[fpliii]

Pippen not winning a DPOY was a travesty. Especially in 95. What he did that year was more impressive than Kobe 06 season and Wades 09 season. Or Mcgradys 03 season. He was everything for that team.

Which seasons do you think he should've won DPOY? I think he should have at least one award (and is arguably the only non-big who should have won, since he anchored those elite Bulls defenses).

[Teanett]

Are you f*cking high?

pip took them to the ecf. wade, kobe and t-mac had great stats on bad teams.

[Teanett]

Which seasons do you think he should've won DPOY? I think he should have at least one award (and is arguably the only non-big who should have won, since he anchored those elite Bulls defenses).

95 and/or 96
imho payton was never a better defender than pip.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Are you f*cking high?

Kobe and Wade were (and ARE) infinitely better scorers, but Pip was THE best perimeter defender in '94 and a superior playmaker / rebounder. Took his team deeper into the postseason vs. BETTER competition too.

[andgar923]

Kinda tough being DPOY when you're the 2nd best defender on your team.

Yeah I went there.

[97 bulls]

Which seasons do you think he should've won DPOY? I think he should have at least one award (and is arguably the only non-big who should have won, since he anchored those elite Bulls defenses).
Absolutely 95. His team had a better record than Mutombos, He lead the league in defensive rating, steals, avg a block a game, was his teams best man, help, trap, full court, and even low post defender.

[97 bulls]

Kinda tough being DPOY when you're the 2nd best defender on your team.

Yeah I went there.
When Jordan won in 88, Pippen wasnt in his prime, so it was legit. lol

[Money 23]

Probably should've been DPOY in '94, but it's difficult taking it away from Hakeem, too. If Hakeem got MVP, I would've gave Pip the DPOY.

[andgar923]

When Jordan won in 88, Pippen wasnt in his prime, so it was legit. lol

MJ is better than Pip, always has always will be.

Not significantly better, but still better nonetheless.

And this is while MJ had the bulk of the pressure on him, while being double teamed. Teams prepared for MJ on their offensive side of the end as a defensive ploy all the time. All Pip had to do is give the ball to MJ on offense and then focus on mainly helping out.

He wasn't the lock down defender ya'll make him out to be. He got killed too many times, specially by stronger players in the post, or quicker players in the perimeter. MJ was better on the perimeter and post, because Mj was quicker on the perimeter and MJ was more strong willed in the post.

To be fair, MJ got away with more calls, but even without those calls MJ was still better all around defender. Slight edge may go to Pip on the 'help' side due to his length (he could cover 2 spots at the same time, almost unheard of). But MJ was smarter, better athlete, timing, reflexes.

[Dragonyeuw]

Lol @ kids who say he deserved an MVP.

In 1994 Pip averaged 22 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists,2.9 steals,shot 49% from the floor while leading the Bulls to 55 wins.....without Michael Jordan. Hakeem deserved it that year but that was definitely an MVP-level season from Pip.

[97 bulls]

MJ is better than Pip, always has always will be.

Not significantly better, but still better nonetheless.

And this is while MJ had the bulk of the pressure on him, while being double teamed. Teams prepared for MJ on their offensive side of the end as a defensive ploy all the time. All Pip had to do is give the ball to MJ on offense and then focus on mainly helping out.

He wasn't the lock down defender ya'll make him out to be. He got killed too many times, specially by stronger players in the post, or quicker players in the perimeter. MJ was better on the perimeter and post, because Mj was quicker on the perimeter and MJ was more strong willed in the post.

To be fair, MJ got away with more calls, but even without those calls MJ was still better all around defender. Slight edge may go to Pip on the 'help' side due to his length (he could cover 2 spots at the same time, almost unheard of). But MJ was smarter, better athlete, timing, reflexes.
I shouldnt get into this with you because I know how you feel about Michael Jordan. If he slapped youre mom you'd say it was her fault.

Saying that, Pippen evolved into being a better defender than Jordan. And as Phil Jacksonn said, he was the Bulls anchor and catalyst on defense. I do agree Jordan was an amazing defender, but Pippen trumps him due to his versatility.

I also dont think its fair to say Pippen is overrated as a defender because a guy occasionally had a great night againt him. It happens. Just like Jordan, who in my opinion is the greatest scorer ever, has had very bad games on offense. But then again I must look at the source.

[andgar923]

I shouldnt get into this with you because I know how you feel about Michael Jordan. If he slapped youre mom you'd say it was her fault.

Saying that, Pippen evolved into being a better defender than Jordan. And as Phil Jacksonn said, he was the Bulls anchor and catalyst on defense. I do agree Jordan was an amazing defender, but Pippen trumps him due to his versatility.

I also dont think its fair to say Pippen is overrated as a defender because a guy occasionally had a great night againt him. It happens. Just like Jordan, who in my opinion is the greatest scorer ever, has had very bad games on offense. But then again I must look at the source.

Whatever you say about me, can be said about you.

You're a pitiful Pip apologist.

I and others have love for him and give him props, but you make it a mission to overrate him and place him in categories which he doesn't belong in.

Aint you the same dope that said he was better than Magic?

Aint you that same dude that elevates Pip's rankings based on ONE season?

Aint you the same cat that dispels every and all comments made by Pip (himself), coaches, teammates, opponents when they say MJ basically molded Pip into the player that he is? these are on record by multiple people, both directly and indirectly.


Aint you the same buffoon that insinuated that he was better than Bird?

Yet I'm the one that shouldn't be taken serious here?

:coleman:

[RRR3]

Kobe and Wade were (and ARE) infinitely better scorers, but Pip was THE best perimeter defender in '94 and a superior playmaker / rebounder. Took his team deeper into the postseason vs. BETTER competition too.
T-Mac wasn't an infinitely better scorer? :coleman:

[Money 23]

Pippen is a more versatile defender due to his size and length. So I get why some prefer him given that advantage. But it doesn't make him a better defender.

Jordan was absolutely the better defender in terms of skill, man defense, help defense, instincts etc. The coaching staff for the Bulls has commented on this before. MJ guided Pip to be the defender he eventually became. He followed Jordan's lead.

[97 bulls]

Pippen is a more versatile defender due to his size and length. So I get why some prefer him given that advantage. But it doesn't make him a better defender.

Jordan was absolutely the better defender in terms of skill, man defense, help defense, instincts etc. The coaching staff for the Bulls has commented on this before. MJ guided Pip to be the defender he eventually became. He followed Jordan's lead.
Thats funny, be cause Phil Jackson, the Bulls coach, called Pippen the Bulls defensive leader. I remember in an interview John Bach saying Jordan was better during the first threepeat only because he talked more trash. And I believe Tex Winter said Pippen was better. Which coaches are you talking about? Doug Collins?

And what makes Jordan a better defender skill-wise? Or instincts, or man? And Pippen was head ans shoulders betted than Jordan on help. But then again, look at the source, another Jordan fan

[andgar923]

Thats funny, be cause Phil Jackson, the Bulls coach, called Pippen the Bulls defensive leader. I remember in an interview John Bach saying Jordan was better during the first threepeat only because he talked more trash. And I believe Tex Winter said Pippen was better. Which coaches are you talking about? Doug Collins?

And what makes Jordan a better defender skill-wise? Or instincts, or man? And Pippen was head ans shoulders betted than Jordan on help. But then again, look at the source, another Jordan fan

As clearly shown with his steals and block numbers correct?

[97 bulls]

As clearly shown with his steals and block numbers correct?
Im talking about double teams, trapping, etc.

[tpols]

Thats funny, be cause Phil Jackson, the Bulls coach, called Pippen the Bulls defensive leader. I remember in an interview John Bach saying Jordan was better during the first threepeat only because he talked more trash. And I believe Tex Winter said Pippen was better. Which coaches are you talking about? Doug Collins?

And what makes Jordan a better defender skill-wise? Or instincts, or man? And Pippen was head ans shoulders betted than Jordan on help. But then again, look at the source, another Jordan fan
The bulls went from d-ratings of 19, 11, 7, 4, 7 under MJs reign as the top defender to..

6, 2, 1, 4, 3 after 1994 when Pippen took over the defensive reigns.

I don't get how Jordan stans can even argue that Jordan was a better defensive anchor. It's not even close.

[andgar923]

Im talking about double teams, trapping, etc.

Even at that, you sound ridiculous and obviously grasping at straws there.

Not sure who's better at double teaming (:rolleyes: ) but it sure as hell closer than what you keep suggesting.

Again, you keep overrating Pip, making him appear Godlier than what he is. You'd have a legit argument if you simply said "He's slightly better" or "he might be a better helper" but "HEAD AND SHOULDERS"? :facepalm

[97 bulls]

Even at that, you sound ridiculous and obviously grasping at straws there.

Not sure who's better at double teaming (:rolleyes: ) but it sure as hell closer than what you keep suggesting.

Again, you keep overrating Pip, making him appear Godlier than what he is. You'd have a legit argument if you simply said "He's slightly better" or "he might be a better helper" but "HEAD AND SHOULDERS"? :facepalm
As an all-around defender? Yes I feel Pippen is head shoulders above Jordan as a defender. The only part of defense id give to Jordan is man defense. And thats slight. Pippens defensive impact is on level with that of a center. Check out the Bulls in 95.

Tpols brought up a great point. In the mid 80s, Jordan was never able to muster a team to the level of defense Pippen was. Jordan was an amazing man defender. He was outstanding at playing passing lanes, and blocking shots from the weak side. Pippen was just about equally as good, and he was better at trapping, full court pressing, chase down blocks, drawing charges, help, low post, and being able to cover more positions.

[andgar923]

As an all-around defender? Yes I feel Pippen is head shoulders above Jordan as a defender.
:facepalm

[97 bulls]

:facepalm
If thats the best response you have then this debate is over.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

T-Mac wasn't an infinitely better scorer? :coleman:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Tracy%20McGrady/z%20Gifs%20of%20T-MAC/t-macvscrawford.gif

TMac as well :cheers:

[TheMan]

Pippen was the Bulls best defender in the second threepeat.

[97 bulls]

Whatever you say about me, can be said about you.

You're a pitiful Pip apologist.

I and others have love for him and give him props, but you make it a mission to overrate him and place him in categories which he doesn't belong in.

Aint you the same dope that said he was better than Magic?

Aint you that same dude that elevates Pip's rankings based on ONE season?

Aint you the same cat that dispels every and all comments made by Pip (himself), coaches, teammates, opponents when they say MJ basically molded Pip into the player that he is? these are on record by multiple people, both directly and indirectly.


Aint you the same buffoon that insinuated that he was better than Bird?

Yet I'm the one that shouldn't be taken serious here?

:coleman:
Now hold on here. What youre doing is taking my statements out of context. I dont base my stance on Pippen based on one season. I go ofc his career. A 6 time champ, 2 time Olympic gold medal winner, and a player who has one of the highest win %s in NBA history. Most of our debates center around whether or not Pippen was or wasnt a franchise played and great leader. You're gonna dismiss everything he did with Jordan so I can only center a rebuttal based on what he did without Jordan. So if you dont want me to talk about that one season, then stop trying to minimize his accomplishments.

I never said he was better than Magic Johnson, I said they were the same players as far as scoring. Neither had great jumpers, Both were strong in the post, and looked to get others involved than themselves. I did say Id take Pippen over Magic to start a franchise because theres no guarantee Im gonna be able to get Jabbar, Worthy, Cooper type players to go around him. And Magic was a front-runner. Im not sure how hed respond to playing on a bad team. I know what Pippen could do. In both situations. And based on accomplishments, I feel Magic should be ranked higher than Pippen


As far as Bird, I said their impact on the court, would be a wash in a series in which the 96 Bulls play the 86 Celtics. The stats bare it out. I never said he was betted than Bird.


With regards to Jordan 'creating' Pippen, I never disagreed with the notion that Jordan mentored him. I think saying he 'made' Pippen is ridiculous. The talent was obviously there. And all players can allude to another played or coach for their success. Truth be told, theyre styles are totally different.

I have rehased this information many times. Why don't you stop acting like Jordans Bitch and be a man and stop distorting what I state.

[97 bulls]

I also feel you and people like you are extreme hypocrites Andgar. You love trying to compare stats from across different eras like in this thread when you alluded ti Pippens and Jordans steals and blocks. But are quick to put info posted by Mings Foot as not being in context. Those number Jordan got in the 80s are inflated. If Pippen played his prime in 80s, his numbers would be higher as well.

Which brings me to another point I made about Pippen. I feel and have said if Pippen played in the 80s, even with Jordan his avgs.would hover around 24/9/7 yearly. A poster did respond by saying those were Larry Bird type numbers. And.my response I call it like I see it.

[hitmanyr2k]

With regards to Jordan 'creating' Pippen, I never disagreed with the notion that Jordan mentored him. I think saying he 'made' Pippen is ridiculous. The talent was obviously there. And all players can allude to another played or coach for their success. Truth be told, theyre styles are totally different.

I have rehased this information many times. Why don't you stop acting like Jordans Bitch and be a man and stop distorting what I state.

I've always hated this shit and I've always said Jordan didn't "make" Pippen. Pippen made Pippen. Playing with Jordan every day obviously had an effect but Pippen had to have the work ethic and talent to get better whether Jordan was there or not otherwise he's nothing but another Lamar Odom...a could've been.

Pippen was a good player during the first 3peat but while Jordan was gone he hit the weights and got bigger on his own. He developed a great low post-game on his own. He added the pull-up three on his own. He got more versatile and deadlier defensively on his own. Jordan wasn't there for any of that shit. MJ came back and found a completely different player which he acknowledged.

[Roundball_Rock]

I've always hated this shit and I've always said Jordan didn't "make" Pippen. Pippen made Pippen. Playing with Jordan every day obviously had an effect but Pippen had to have the work ethic and talent to get better whether Jordan was there or not otherwise he's nothing but another Lamar Odom...a could've been.

Pippen was a good player during the first 3peat but while Jordan was gone he hit the weights and got bigger on his own. He developed a great low post-game on his own. He added the pull-up three on his own. He got more versatile and deadlier defensively on his own. Jordan wasn't there for any of that shit. MJ came back and found a completely different player which he acknowledged.

:bowdown:

Jordan fans are the only fan group--in any sport--who make such an absurd claim. That is a big reason why they are the worst fans in sports.

Jordan has not been able to "make" any player. He has been a joke in Washington and Charlotte. We all know how much MJ loves to win. If he had this magic power that only Mike has to mint a HOFer why has he not done so in Washington or Charlotte?

It is a shame MJ hasn't been able to have a winning season in the pros--as a GM, owner, or second-tier minor league baseball--without Scottie. No wonder MJ fans are so :mad: to this day about Pip.

[Leviathon1121]

:bowdown:

Jordan fans are the only fan group--in any sport--who make such an absurd claim. That is a big reason why they are the worst fans in sports.

Jordan has not been able to "make" any player. He has been a joke in Washington and Charlotte. We all know how much MJ loves to win. If he had this magic power that only Mike has to mint a HOFer why has he not done so in Washington or Charlotte?

It is a shame MJ hasn't been able to have a winning season in the pros--as a GM, owner, or second-tier minor league baseball--without Scottie. No wonder MJ FAN are so :mad: to this day about Pip.

Fixed that for you, cause I can't for the life of me see more then one idiot saying anything like that in this thread, or anywhere else really. Don't let that stop your crusade though :oldlol:

[KOBE143]

In defense

Pippen >>>> MJ overrated defense and its not even close..

[NuggetsFan]

No wonder MJ fans are so :mad: to this day about Pip.

Well let's not get carried away. MJ is the consensus GOAT basketball player, heck his name gets alot of mentions when talking about the greatest sports player of all time. He's got 6 rings and won all 6 FMVP's. Got his own movie and has his own brand.

Maybe on a couple ISH threads MJ fans downplay Pippen or whatever but in reality if somebody is a MJ stan the last thing they're concerning themselves with is Scottie Pippen. Really it seems like the Pippen fans are the one's who are pissed, which I can understand. Jordan really did steal all the glory, shame how much individuals are pushed in a team sport. You'd think basketball was tennis the way fans/media pimp out individuals.

Of course you all could solve this problem by just uniting as Chicago Bull fans and not worrying yourself about Jordan/Pippen as individuals because well they were teammates :oldlol:

[Magic bird]

In defense

Pippen >>>> MJ overrated defense and its not even close..

This.

[97 bulls]

Well let's not get carried away. MJ is the consensus GOAT basketball player, heck his name gets alot of mentions when talking about the greatest sports player of all time. He's got 6 rings and won all 6 FMVP's. Got his own movie and has his own brand.

Maybe on a couple ISH threads MJ fans downplay Pippen or whatever but in reality if somebody is a MJ stan the last thing they're concerning themselves with is Scottie Pippen. Really it seems like the Pippen fans are the one's who are pissed, which I can understand. Jordan really did steal all the glory, shame how much individuals are pushed in a team sport. You'd think basketball was tennis the way fans/media pimp out individuals.

Of course you all could solve this problem by just uniting as Chicago Bull fans and not worrying yourself about Jordan/Pippen as individuals because well they were teammates :oldlol:
Thats the thing. Posters like Andgar, Leviathon, to name a few, arent Bulls fans theyre Jordan fans.

This was a great post that states my sentiments. We as fans dont talk about teams anymore. Instead of having a discussion about which team would win a seven game series between the Clippers and Heat, its who wins in a seven game series between Chris Paul and LeBron James. As if they would play one on one. Players get the same amount of credit in losses as in wins as long as they put up the stats.

[eliteballer]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJGGlFQKZk&t=2m18s

[Ne 1]

:bowdown:

Jordan fans are the only fan group--in any sport--who make such an absurd claim. That is a big reason why they are the worst fans in sports.

Jordan has not been able to "make" any player. He has been a joke in Washington and Charlotte. We all know how much MJ loves to win. If he had this magic power that only Mike has to mint a HOFer why has he not done so in Washington or Charlotte?

It is a shame MJ hasn't been able to have a winning season in the pros--as a GM, owner, or second-tier minor league baseball--without Scottie. No wonder MJ fans are so :mad: to this day about Pip.

I don't believe people still believe this myth that Jordan "made" Pippen.

Scottie was a top 5 draft pick, and highly sought after talent (Chicago traded to get him from Seattle). He had his playmaking/ball handling skills from playing PG as a teenager, and he was already touted as a great defensive player coming out of college (averaged 3+ steals). He improved dramatically EVERY year he was in college, which shows his tremendous work ethic before he ever even met Mike (went from a team manager to a college star in like 4-5 years).

He sure as hell wasn't just some dime a dozen scrub who showed up in the NBA one day and Jordan decided to use his Midas touch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midas) to make him an MVP-caliber talent. I'm sure if Jordan had this mythical ability then he would have taken everyone under his wing and made something of them. By Pippen's rookie year, announcers around the league were already projecting him to be a superstar. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M) By his second year he had improved into a solid second option and by his third he was an All-Star and one of the best "#2s" in the entire league. Either Jordan was a Godly teacher or maybe.....Pippen was just freaking talented. By the way, his improvement came at a time when Jordan wasn't even the vocal leader of the team (that came around 1990 from Grant's account). They had a segment about this in the '91 Pistons series and oddly enough, Grant named Corzine as the one providing leadership to guys like Pippen and himself in their first couple of years in the league. Pippen was one of the most physically talented players of his era, was unnaturally skilled for a guy his size and was showing tons of flashes of greatness early on in his rookie year. I'd say he would not only be fine without Jordan but maybe even better off (gets a chance to develop faster without a teammate taking nearly 30 shots a night, and maybe even win a ring on his own as he showed he was capable of leading a contending team in '94 and '00, because hey, as we all know on ISH, 1 ring as "the man" > 6 as a "#2"). Sure Jordan helped Scottie, but lets quit the outrageous "Jordan made Pippen" bullshit.

[NBASTATMAN]

I would say Kobe is the ultimate defender. he is able to stop his 4 teammates from scoring.
:applause:

[eliteballer]

I don't believe people still believe this myth that Jordan "made" Pippen.

Scottie was a top 5 draft pick, and highly sought after talent (Chicago traded to get him from Seattle). He had his playmaking/ball handling skills from playing PG as a teenager, and he was already touted as a great defensive player coming out of college (averaged 3+ steals). He improved dramatically EVERY year he was in college, which shows his tremendous work ethic before he ever even met Mike (went from a team manager to a college star in like 4-5 years).

He sure as hell wasn't just some dime a dozen scrub who showed up in the NBA one day and Jordan decided to use his Midas touch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midas) to make him an MVP-caliber talent. I'm sure if Jordan had this mythical ability then he would have taken everyone under his wing and made something of them. By Pippen's rookie year, announcers around the league were already projecting him to be a superstar. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M) By his second year he had improved into a solid second option and by his third he was an All-Star and one of the best "#2s" in the entire league. Either Jordan was a Godly teacher or maybe.....Pippen was just freaking talented. By the way, his improvement came at a time when Jordan wasn't even the vocal leader of the team (that came around 1990 from Grant's account). They had a segment about this in the '91 Pistons series and oddly enough, Grant named Corzine as the one providing leadership to guys like Pippen and himself in their first couple of years in the league. Pippen was one of the most physically talented players of his era, was unnaturally skilled for a guy his size and was showing tons of flashes of greatness early on in his rookie year. I'd say he would not only be fine without Jordan but maybe even better off (gets a chance to develop faster without a teammate taking nearly 30 shots a night, and maybe even win a ring on his own as he showed he was capable of leading a contending team in '94 and '00, because hey, as we all know on ISH, 1 ring as "the man" > 6 as a "#2"). Sure Jordan helped Scottie, but lets quit the outrageous "Jordan made Pippen" bullshit.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Calabis]

In 1994 Pip averaged 22 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists,2.9 steals,shot 49% from the floor while leading the Bulls to 55 wins.....without Michael Jordan. Hakeem deserved it that year but that was definitely an MVP-level season from Pip.

And with Jordan in 1991 he avg 21/7/7 on 50%, so why are people acting like he played out of his freakin mind when MJ left?

[Calabis]

Thats funny, be cause Phil Jackson, the Bulls coach, called Pippen the Bulls defensive leader. I remember in an interview John Bach saying Jordan was better during the first threepeat only because he talked more trash. And I believe Tex Winter said Pippen was better. Which coaches are you talking about? Doug Collins?

And what makes Jordan a better defender skill-wise? Or instincts, or man? And Pippen was head ans shoulders betted than Jordan on help. But then again, look at the source, another Jordan fan

This is a BS statement

[juju151111]

And with Jordan in 1991 he avg 21/7/7 on 50%, so why are people acting like he played out of his freakin mind when MJ left?
1994>>1991 Pip. Its not all about pretty stats. 1991 Pippen first year of pressure and finals. The addition of Toni and Grant getting better in 94 showed great results. Pippen had a ego and messed up when he sat on the bench when Phil called a play.

[Calabis]

1994>>1991 Pip. Its not all about pretty stats. 1991 Pippen first year of pressure and finals. The addition of Toni and Grant getting better in 94 showed great results. Pippen had a ego and messed up when he sat on the bench when Phil called a play.

Didn't say 91 was a greater version of Pip, but acting like as soon as Jordan left he became some superhero is crazy. Pippen was a great damn ball player, but this dude put him in the Magic/Bird realm. Pip was one of my favorite players, actually modeled my game after his at a lower level of course.....but Pippen was not a better help defender than MJ and on the ball defense was slightly better than championship run MJ. MJ was a monster defensively earlier before Pip developed into a starter/contributor, its well known from coaches and players from that time.

I do agree, Pip was just more valuable because he could guard more positions than MJ, therefore making him a better more versatile defender.

[KOBE143]

Its kind of sad that Pippen, Duncan, Kobe would probably not get a DPOY award even tho they're the best if not one of the best defender in their primes.. :(

[hitmanyr2k]

Its kind of sad that Pippen, Duncan, Kobe would probably not get a DPOY award even tho they're the best if not one of the best defender in their primes.. :(

It's sad for Pippen and Duncan because they were actually deserving. Those guys had to anchor their teams defensively in their prime. Kobe has never been on that level in impact or consistency.

[Ne 1]

And with Jordan in 1991 he avg 21/7/7 on 50%, so why are people acting like he played out of his freakin mind when MJ left?

For 1

[97 bulls]

Didn't say 91 was a greater version of Pip, but acting like as soon as Jordan left he became some superhero is crazy. Pippen was a great damn ball player, but this dude put him in the Magic/Bird realm. Pip was one of my favorite players, actually modeled my game after his at a lower level of course.....but Pippen was not a better help defender than MJ and on the ball defense was slightly better than championship run MJ. MJ was a monster defensively earlier before Pip developed into a starter/contributor, its well known from coaches and players from that time.

I do agree, Pip was just more valuable because he could guard more positions than MJ, therefore making him a better more versatile defender.
He was an MVP and DPOY caliber/Franchise type player. Thats the point. I think its also fair to note, Pippens stats went UP despite league avgs going down. On avg NBA teams took 7150 shots for the season in 91. In 94, the leagues team avg WENT DOWN to 6900 roughly. Thats about 3 less shot attempts per game per team. If the FG attempts stayed the same, then Pippens avg goes up a point or two. Then factor in that FTs dont count as a FG attempt.
On avg teams took 100 less shot attempts per seasons. I think its safe to say under 91 circumstances, 94 Pippens stats would look like 23.5/9.3/7 per game. Along with everything else he did.

[Round Mound]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]For 1

[CHi1PriDe]

I would say Kobe is the ultimate defender. he is able to stop his 4 teammates from scoring.

Not gonna lie, this was pretty funny :roll: