Was Kobe A Top 3 Player From 2000-12

[Big#50]

We have Duncan and Shaq way ahead of everyone. KG was a one man army in Minny. Iverson led his team to the finals. Dirk led his team to the finals as well. TMAC was doing the same thing Kobe was. Then Wade and Lebron came into the league and had more success than Kobe did as the best player for his team. I don't think Kobe was ever the best player in league in any season. Besides having stacked teams and playing next to the most dominant force in the history of basketball, what did Kobe do to separate himself from these players?

[ihoopallday]

Of course he was. Well not every year, but he had his majority of years as the best in the league.

[TheBigVeto]

No he wasn't.
/thread

[Deuce Bigalow]

He was the BEST player from 2000-12.

[TaLvsCuaL]

He was the BEST player from 2000-12.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8807/shaqlaughswalk.gif

[PyrrhusX]

He was the BEST player from 2000-12.

Dam didnt think you were a Kobe stan:biggums:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8807/shaqlaughswalk.gif
2007-2012 is part of 2000-2012, That is 6 out of 13 seasons.

[Heavincent]

99-00 - top 10
00-01 - top 3
01-02 - top 3
03-04 - top 5
04-05 - top 10
05-06 - best player (not even close)
06-07 - best player (again, not close)
07-08 - best player
08-09 - second best
09-10 - best player
10-11 - top 10
11-12 - top 5

imo

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

99-00 - top 10
00-01 - top 3
01-02 - top 3
03-04 - top 5
04-05 - top 10
05-06 - best player (not even close)
06-07 - best player (again, not close)
07-08 - best player
08-09 - second best
09-10 - best player
10-11 - top 10
11-12 - top 5

imo

Time to take your meds.

[Heavincent]

Time to take your meds.

mad

[Deuce Bigalow]

2000-2012

Kobe
5 Titles
2 Finals MVPs
MVP
2 Scoring Titles
13 All-Star Teams
10 All-NBA First Teams
2 All-NBA Second Teams
All-NBA Third Team
9 All-Defensive First Teams
3 All-Defensive Second Teams
4 All-Star Game MVPs
Top 5 in MVP Voting 10 times
27,629 Regular Season points
5,312 Playoff points

[LongLiveTheKing]

2000-2012

Kobe
5 Titles
2 Finals MVPs
MVP
2 Scoring Titles
13 All-Star Teams
10 All-NBA First Teams
2 All-NBA Second Teams
All-NBA Third Team
9 All-Defensive First Teams
3 All-Defensive Second Teams
4 All-Star Game MVPs
Top 5 in MVP Voting 10 times
27,629 Regular Season points
5,312 Playoff points
I think you read the question wrong? It's what seasons was he a top 3 player.

[SevereUpInHere]

Shaq fell off hard in that 2nd half, as did Duncan (albeit to a lesser extent) There is no way you can say he wasn't a top 3 if not the best player averaged out over that 12 years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think you read the question wrong? It's what seasons was he a top 3 player.
Probably, but the way he worded it seems like he's talking about 2000-12, those 13 seasons as a whole..."Was Kobe a top 3 player FROM 2000-12", not was Kobe a top 3 player in any season from 2000-12.

[9erempiree]

Easily the best player in those 12 year span.

Shaq and Duncan are close but they fell off hard.

[eliteballer]

It's funny, when Kobe and Duncan were both in their primes, from 2001 and beyond Kobe was almost universally considered the better player.

The revisitionist history of those clinging onto anything to denigrate Kobe has boosted Duncan:facepalm

[AKADS]

Probably, but the way he worded it seems like he's talking about 2000-12, those 13 seasons as a whole..."Was Kobe a top 3 player FROM 2000-12", not was Kobe a top 3 player in any season from 2000-12.
Kobe might be the only guy who stayed as a top 5 for all or most of those seasons but at no point did Kobe truely prove he was the best player in the L no matter what bias fans say. I could here arguments that one or 2 yr he was the best but it is not as clear cut as saying Shaq was number on in 2000 or Jordan in 96 - 98 or LeBron this yr.

Kobe was the most consistent player over those 12 years but not the clear cut best IMO.

[BlackVVaves]

Generally speaking, I'd say he was:

2001-2002: Top 3
2003-2004: Top 5 (may have been a little lower in 2004)
2005: Top 10
2006-2008: #1
2009: Top 3
2010-2012: Top 5-6

[KOBE143]

Kobe player of the decade.. umad?
Kobe player of the century.. umad?



LeBron player of the month.. umad? :lol

[Ne 1]

2000: Top 10
2001: Top 3
2002: Top 3
2003: Top 5
2004: Top 5
2005: Top 10
2006: #1
2007: #1
2008: #1
2009: Top 3
2010: Top 3
2011: Top 5
2012: Top 5

[EnoughSaid]

99-00 - top 10
00-01 - top 3
01-02 - top 3
03-04 - top 5
04-05 - top 10
05-06 - best player (not even close)
06-07 - best player (again, not close)
07-08 - best player
08-09 - second best
09-10 - best player
10-11 - top 10
11-12 - top 5

imo

How can you say not even close for 2006 when Dwyane Wade absolutely tore it up that season? :wtf: And he had a better Finals series than all of Kobe's 7 appearances. And I don't understand the second best in 09 and then best in 10? LeBron is the best player since 08-09 and forward.

One more thing. I love how Kobe fans and some Lakers fans take post season play into account when ranking Kobe ahead of LeBron in 08-09 and 09-10, but don't do that in 05-06 or 06-07.

[MiamiThrice]

2000-02: Shaquille O'Neal
2003-05: Tim Duncan
2006-07: Dirk
2008: Chris Paul
2009-2012: LeBron

That's breaking it down into segments in that time frame to show who the best player was during those years.

Since Kobe was never the most dominant player aside from arguably 2008(give me Chris Paul), he is definitely not in the top 3. Just because guys like LeBron who are better than Kobe ever was didn't play in the early 00s shouldn't exclude them from having superior peak play.

The top 4 is unquestionably Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, Dirk as each of those guys carried teams to titles as the man and overcame obstales to win it all and were the clear best player in the league for multiple seasons.

[Money 23]

00-01 - top 3
02-03 - top 3
05-06 - best player
06-07 - best player
07-08 - best player
08-09 - top 3
09-10 - top 3

Those are the only years. Anything more, and you're a Kobe stan. Anything less, you're a hater.

[Brunch@Five]

It's funny, when Kobe and Duncan were both in their primes, from 2001 and beyond Kobe was almost universally considered the better player.

The revisitionist history of those clinging onto anything to denigrate Kobe has boosted Duncan:facepalm

no he wasn't. When I started out on this forum in 2003, the consensus top 5 was Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, TMac, in no order. But most had the big guys in their top 3, and rightfully so. No one seriously had Kobe over Duncan after what happened 2003 and 2004. Then Kobe didn't make the playoffs. It wasn't before 05-06 that he had really solidified himself as a consensus top 3 player.

[RazorBaLade]

2000-02: Shaquille O'Neal
2003-05: Tim Duncan
2006-07: Dirk
2008: Chris Paul
2009-2012: LeBron

That's breaking it down into segments in that time frame to show who the best player was during those years.

Since Kobe was never the most dominant player aside from arguably 2008(give me Chris Paul), he is definitely not in the top 3. Just because guys like LeBron who are better than Kobe ever was didn't play in the early 00s shouldn't exclude them from having superior peak play.

The top 4 is unquestionably Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, Dirk as each of those guys carried teams to titles as the man and overcame obstales to win it all and were the clear best player in the league for multiple seasons.

kill yourself

[SacJB Shady]

for a couple years kobe was the most prevalent killer

[kennethgriffin]

sporting news player of the decade award = kobe bryant

sports illustrated player of the decade award = kobe bryant

tnt player of the decade award = kobe bryant


don't reall understand how he isnt top 3 in even the biggest haters mind

hes the highest ranked all time player from this era

hes the most successful player from this era



2000 - 23/6/5, nba champion, 1st team all defense, 2nd team all nba
2001 - 28/6/5, nba champion, 2nd team all nba, 2nd team all defense
2002 - 25/5/5, nba champion, 1st team all nba, 2nd team all defense
2003 - 30/7/6, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense
2004 - 24/5/5, nba finals, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense
2005 - 27/6/6, injured
2006 - 35/5/5, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense, scoring champion
2007 - 32/6/5, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense, scoring champion
2008 - 28/6/5, MVP, nba finals, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense
2009 - 27/5/5, nba champion, finals mvp, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense
2010 - 27/5/5, nba champion, finals mvp, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense
2011 - 25/5/5, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense
2012 - 28/5/5, 1st team all nba, 2nd team all defense








it could be argued that kobe was the best player in the nba in

2001
2003
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010


he was atleast top 3 every year from 2001 till 2010


right now hes top 5

[Magic 32]

2006-07: Dirk


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3163/2400442002_90d6bdc6a7.jpg



2008: Chris

http://lakernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/kobe_reverse_jam_hornets.jpg

[maybeshewill13]

Of course he was. Well not every year, but he had his majority of years as the best in the league.

Lmfao too funny. Duncan, KG, Nash, Lebron and Dirk say hi. If anything he may have been the best for ONE year. :facepalm




it could be argued that kobe was the best player in the nba in

2001
2003
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010


he was atleast top 3 every year from 2001 till 2010



:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

No, Bryant wasn’t a Top 3 player from 2000-2012, but he was a Top 10 player at LEAST from 2000-2012.

Like some in this thread have mentioned, he was considered Top 3 numerous different seasons and the best player from the 2006-08 circa. You could make arguments for 2009 and 2010 as the best player, but I think James and Wade were better (Wade for 09 I would agree too, though there is a case...I give Bryant the edge over Wade in 10.), so Top 2-3 is correct here.

[Money 23]

It wasn't before 05-06 that he had really solidified himself as a consensus top 3 player.
There was an argument in 2001 and 2003 for Kobe in the top three, definitely wasn't definitive given Shaq was still the best player in the league, and you had Duncan competing with him and KG in his prime / peak. That 3rd spot in 2001 was being battled for by Iverson, KG, and Kobe. In 2003, Shaq and Duncan were number 1 and 2. Kobe, KG, and T-Mac battled for 3rd spot.

Kobe was clearly however undisputed top three in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010. I feel he was the best player for sure in 2006, 2007, and 2008.

He was #3 in 2009, and #2 in 2010.

So I'd essentially agree. I never remember Kobe being unanimously considered better than Duncan until maybe 2008, 2009, and 2010 when Duncan was clearly past his prime, and in 2009 Kobe was just exiting his peak / prime. So he obviously had the advantage.

I did not consider Kobe top five in 2011, and not top three in 2012. I only think Laker homers would feel comfortable saying that stuff honestly.

eliteballer saying otherwise about Kobe being unanimously considered better than Duncan from 2001 just shows his obvious Laker groupie agenda.

[BoutPractice]

Kobe never really had a season better than Duncan or Shaq's best seasons in terms of impact, but his longevity makes him the best player of the cherry picked period used in the topic.

[Deuce Bigalow]

There was an argument in 2001 and 2003 for Kobe in the top three, definitely wasn't definitive given Shaq was still the best player in the league, and you had Duncan competing with him and KG in his prime / peak. That 3rd spot in 2001 was being battled for by Iverson, KG, and Kobe. In 2003, Shaq and Duncan were number 1 and 2. Kobe, KG, and T-Mac battled for 3rd spot.

Kobe was clearly however undisputed top three in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010. I feel he was the best player for sure in 2006, 2007, and 2008.

He was #3 in 2009, and #2 in 2010.

So I'd essentially agree. I never remember Kobe being unanimously considered better than Duncan until maybe 2008, 2009, and 2010 when Duncan was clearly past his prime, and in 2009 Kobe was just exiting his peak / prime. So he obviously had the advantage.

I did not consider Kobe top five in 2011, and not top three in 2012. I only think Laker homers would feel comfortable saying that stuff honestly.

eliteballer saying otherwise about Kobe being unanimously considered better than Duncan from 2001 just shows his obvious Laker groupie agenda.
Was it unanimous in 2001 and 2002 when Kobe dominated the Spurs?
Duncan was not unanimously considered better than Kobe as early as 01. I personally think Kobe was better than Duncan that year. Then there was a playoff game in 02 when Kobe outscored the entire spurs team in the 4th quarter by himself, where was timmy there? But let's not get into that...

[LakersReign]

2000-02: Shaquille O'Neal
2003-05: Tim Duncan
2006-07: Dirk
2008: Chris Paul
2009-2012: LeBron

That's breaking it down into segments in that time frame to show who the best player was during those years.

Since Kobe was never the most dominant player aside from arguably 2008(give me Chris Paul), he is definitely not in the top 3. Just because guys like LeBron who are better than Kobe ever was didn't play in the early 00s shouldn't exclude them from having superior peak play.

The top 4 is unquestionably Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, Dirk as each of those guys carried teams to titles as the man and overcame obstales to win it all and were the clear best player in the league for multiple seasons.

http://i54.tinypic.com/sgo5g9.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

For 5 seasons he clearly was and for 9 he arguably was.

[rmt]

Was it unanimous in 2001 and 2002 when Kobe dominated the Spurs?
Duncan was not unanimously considered better than Kobe as early as 01. I personally think Kobe was better than Duncan that year. Then there was a playoff game in 02 when Kobe outscored the entire spurs team in the 4th quarter by himself, where was timmy there? But let's not get into that...

Maybe the Spurs (like the rest of the league) was most concerned with Shaq who was at his peak during the 3peat years. Don't pretend that playing with the MDE didn't leave Kobe wide open to do his thing - that is NOT the same as being the focal point of the offense and being the one who's double/triple-teamed.

[Odinn]

1999-00; Kobe wasn't top3 or top5.
2000-01; Kobe was top3.
2001-02; Kobe wasn't top3. But he was top5.
2002-03; Kobe wasn't top3. But he was top5.
2003-04; Kobe wasn't top3. But he was top5.
2004-05; Kobe wasn't top3 or top5.
2005-06; Kobe was the best. Clearly.
2006-07; Kobe was the best. But more arguably compared to '05-'06.
2007-08; Kobe was the best. But more arguably compared to '05-'06, again.
2008-09; Kobe was top3.
2009-10; Kobe was top3 or top5 depends on where you rank Durant or Wade.
2010-11; Kobe wasn't top3 or top5.
2011-12; Kobe was top3 or top5 depends on where you rank CP3.

[Money 23]

Was it unanimous in 2001 and 2002 when Kobe dominated the Spurs?
Duncan was not unanimously considered better than Kobe as early as 01. I personally think Kobe was better than Duncan that year. Then there was a playoff game in 02 when Kobe outscored the entire spurs team in the 4th quarter by himself, where was timmy there? But let's not get into that...
I don't see the relevancy of comparing a half of basketball, a quarter of basketball, or even one game within a playoff series and using it in your agenda as justification to say in 2001 Kobe was better than Duncan.

Duncan was also clearly his team's best player, and leader. Kobe, while great, was still the 2nd look for the defense which was more primarily concerned with stopping O'Neal first.

That has to be taken into account in the comparison. Sure Kobe had some nice games against the Spurs, but like any of us without the clear agenda would acknowledge ... is that Duncan was the corner stone of the offense / defense / and franchise as a hole at that time.

No one outside of maybe Laker country would dare say Kobe was better than Duncan, pre-2006. Why? Because they would be off their rocker. Duncan had plenty of beastly playoff series and games against the Lakers in those playoffs as well. But I'm not going to list one game, or a half, or a quarter of basketball to say Duncan was better.

It was just pretty much obvious given circumstances.

[lakerspng]

Kobe was the best player overall and was top 3 for more than 50% of the individual years within that. He was clearly the best player in the league for 3 and arguably for a couple more. The level of attempted marginalization by some people against him is just pathetic. He flat out destroyed his peers that people are saying were better than him some of those years and it's not close.

[NumberSix]

If you mean was he ever a top 3 player at any point between 2000-2012, then yes. Obviously.

If you mean is he one of the top 3 players to play in the NBA in that entire 12 year span, then no.

[ShaqAttack3234]

99-00 - top 10
00-01 - top 3
01-02 - top 3
03-04 - top 5
04-05 - top 10
05-06 - best player (not even close)
06-07 - best player (again, not close)
07-08 - best player
08-09 - second best
09-10 - best player
10-11 - top 10
11-12 - top 5

imo

I pretty much agree.

2000- Top 10(Borderline, but I have him 10th even. You could put him a couple of spots higher or lower)
2001- Top 3(Hard to put him lower after the playoffs, have been tempted to put him 2nd at times)
2002- Top 3(2-3 players challenging, but this ranking still feels right)
2003- Top 5(Had the best season of his career to that point, and clearly expanded his skill set this year becoming a legit 3 point shooter in addition to showing more craftiness. Also added strength and this was the first true year of Kobe's prime. But it was a ridiculously good top 5. Had a better regular season than Shaq, but can't say I'd take him as a player yet. Almost identical to T-Mac too, but I have to take T-mac for consistency as the tiebreaker.)
2004- Top 5(I have him 4th. It was a down year for him, but it's a down year for everyone. The only player behind him with a case is T-Mac, but I hate putting a player on a 21 win team top 5 as it is, and his questionable effort sure doesn't help)
2005- Top 10(A down year for Kobe again, but not a down year for the rest of the team. I've never been 100% comfortable with putting him as low as 10th this year, his skills and ability are certainly above that, though he had his struggles in a ball-dominant do-everything role, his defense had already been slipping for several seasons, but it hit a new low, and I'm not sure he was more effective than some other perimeter players who weren't as skilled, especially with the injuries)
2006- Best player(I don't think anyone else had a case this year. He took his game to another level. Unbelievable individual feats, and the team overachieved, too. Phil asked him to carry the team until they learned the triangle, and they ended up with 45 wins despite that, and not much of a cast outside of Lamar who was inconsistent and didn't play like an all-star until the second half)
2007- Best Player(not as clear as the previous year since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. This is the 2nd year in a row that I thought Kobe was clearly the best in the game. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then)
2008- Best Player(And it's clear again. Kobe played his best from an all around standpoint, his best defensive season since the 3peat, his best job as a facilitator ever and his most mature, unselfish and intelligent ball. It's right up there with '06 as his best season)
2009- Top 3(He has a case for top 2, or even best player again, but I have to go with Lebron and Wade as the top 2. The last year of true prime Kobe)
2010- Top 2(Wade's laziness allowed Kobe to get back to top 2, and Lebron's chokejob was enough for some to have Kobe 1st, but not me)
2011- Top 10(Not as low as 10, but probably not quite as high as 5th. Still more well rounded than Durant, but with the loss in athleticism, decline defensively and poor playoff showing make me put him just outside the top 5.)
2012- Top 5(I'd probably have him 5th exactly. I didn't like his habit of overdribbling and holding the ball, but who else was there?)

[LakersReign]

How can you say not even close for 2006 when Dwyane Wade absolutely tore it up that season? :wtf: And he had a better Finals series than all of Kobe's 7 appearances. And I don't understand the second best in 09 and then best in 10? LeBron is the best player since 08-09 and forward.

One more thing. I love how Kobe fans and some Lakers fans take post season play into account when ranking Kobe ahead of LeBron in 08-09 and 09-10, but don't do that in 05-06 or 06-07.

Lebron fans do exactly the same thing so just stop. I like it how you guys LOVE to say how Lebron is so supposedly so much better than Kobe ever was. But when asked why Lebron is 1-3 in Finals wins, the only response you guys can come up with is....his teammates sucked. Try again:no:

[Heavincent]

I pretty much agree.

2000- Top 10(Borderline, but I have him 10th even. You could put him a couple of spots higher or lower)
2001- Top 3(Hard to put him lower after the playoffs, have been tempted to put him 2nd at times)
2002- Top 3(2-3 players challenging, but this ranking still feels right)
2003- Top 5(Had the best season of his career to that point, and clearly expanded his skill set this year becoming a legit 3 point shooter in addition to showing more craftiness. Also added strength and this was the first true year of Kobe's prime. But it was a ridiculously good top 5. Had a better regular season than Shaq, but can't say I'd take him as a player yet. Almost identical to T-Mac too, but I have to take T-mac for consistency as the tiebreaker.)
2004- Top 5(I have him 4th. It was a down year for him, but it's a down year for everyone. The only player behind him with a case is T-Mac, but I hate putting a player on a 21 win team top 5 as it is, and his questionable effort sure doesn't help)
2005- Top 10(A down year for Kobe again, but not a down year for the rest of the team. I've never been 100% comfortable with putting him as low as 10th this year, his skills and ability are certainly above that, though he had his struggles in a ball-dominant do-everything role, his defense had already been slipping for several seasons, but it hit a new low, and I'm not sure he was more effective than some other perimeter players who weren't as skilled, especially with the injuries)
2006- Best player(I don't think anyone else had a case this year. He took his game to another level. Unbelievable individual feats, and the team overachieved, too. Phil asked him to carry the team until they learned the triangle, and they ended up with 45 wins despite that, and not much of a cast outside of Lamar who was inconsistent and didn't play like an all-star until the second half)
2007- Best Player(not as clear as the previous year since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. This is the 2nd year in a row that I thought Kobe was clearly the best in the game. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then)
2008- Best Player(And it's clear again. Kobe played his best from an all around standpoint, his best defensive season since the 3peat, his best job as a facilitator ever and his most mature, unselfish and intelligent ball. It's right up there with '06 as his best season)
2009- Top 3(He has a case for top 2, or even best player again, but I have to go with Lebron and Wade as the top 2. The last year of true prime Kobe)
2010- Top 2(Wade's laziness allowed Kobe to get back to top 2, and Lebron's chokejob was enough for some to have Kobe 1st, but not me)
2011- Top 10(Not as low as 10, but probably not quite as high as 5th. Still more well rounded than Durant, but with the loss in athleticism, decline defensively and poor playoff showing make me put him just outside the top 5.)
2012- Top 5(I'd probably have him 5th exactly. I didn't like his habit of overdribbling and holding the ball, but who else was there?)

A lot of good points here.

And I forgot his 02-03 season for some reason. I'd say he was top 3 that season too, maybe 4th because T-Mac was ridiculous that year.

[chazzy]

Agree with money ans Shaqattack entirely. He was also the best for the totality of that time period

[ScalabrineStan]

Shaq
Duncan
Bron

..

so no, he's 4th

[Brunch@Five]

Kobe wasn't (considered) top 3 in 00-01 already. Shaq was inarguably better, so was Duncan. Webber put up 27/11/4. Garnett was climbing the ranks. Iverson lead his team to the finals that year and won MVP. Vince Carter was phenomenal that year too, and so was JKidd. So there is a case for him not even being top 5. Kobe actually only finished 9th in MVP voting that year.

01-02? You again had Shaq and Duncan, also Kidd who was just barely etched out by Duncan for MVP and led his team to the finals. He was battling with TMac and KG for #4 that year IMO.

I know that in hindsight things can look different, but you just can't dismiss that guys like Kidd, Webber, TMac, and Iverson were in their primes those years while Kobe was just beginning to enter his. Also, and I know this is a dead horse, those guys lead their teams (TMac less gloriously than the others).

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe wasn't (considered) top 3 in 00-01 already. Shaq was inarguably better, so was Duncan. Webber put up 27/11/4. Garnett was climbing the ranks. Iverson lead his team to the finals that year and won MVP. Vince Carter was phenomenal that year too, and so was JKidd. So there is a case for him not even being top 5. Kobe actually only finished 9th in MVP voting that year.

01-02? You again had Shaq and Duncan, also Kidd who was just barely etched out by Duncan for MVP and led his team to the finals. He was battling with TMac and KG for #4 that year IMO.

I know that in hindsight things can look different, but you just can't dismiss that guys like Kidd, Webber, TMac, and Iverson were in their primes those years while Kobe was just beginning to enter his. Also, and I know this is a dead horse, those guys lead their teams (TMac less gloriously than the others).


- yes he was...ESPN called him the Best pyer in the NBA..so he had to be considered by some.

- and his Playoff Run was Amazing...capped off by winning a Championship

- What Hindsight?...He destroyed Vince , AI(Dropped 40 on him) in the regular season..he was clearly a Top 3 Player ...and put up a 29PPG 6REB 7AST championship run

:lol @ Kidd or Webber....please

[Brunch@Five]

So he was better those years than guys leading their teams to the finals as the best players while playing 1 man offense or almost averaging a triple double in the process, respectively? And then you still have KG and Webber who had a very legitimate case over Kobe.

No, not top 3 those two years. Shaq, Duncan, AI in 01 over him and Shaq, Duncan, Kidd in 02. At the least.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe wasn't (considered) top 3 in 00-01 already. Shaq was inarguably better, so was Duncan. Webber put up 27/11/4. Garnett was climbing the ranks. Iverson lead his team to the finals that year and won MVP. Vince Carter was phenomenal that year too, and so was JKidd. So there is a case for him not even being top 5. Kobe actually only finished 9th in MVP voting that year.

01-02? You again had Shaq and Duncan, also Kidd who was just barely etched out by Duncan for MVP and led his team to the finals. He was battling with TMac and KG for #4 that year IMO.

I know that in hindsight things can look different, but you just can't dismiss that guys like Kidd, Webber, TMac, and Iverson were in their primes those years while Kobe was just beginning to enter his. Also, and I know this is a dead horse, those guys lead their teams (TMac less gloriously than the others).
2001 Western Conference Finals
33.3 PPG | 7.0 RPG | 7.0 APG | 1.5 SPG | 51.4 % FG | 57.1% TS

2001 Western Conference Semifinals
35.0 PPG | 9.0 RPG | 4.3 APG | 1.3 SPG | 47.3% FG %| 58.8% TS

2001 Playoffs
29.4 PPG | 7.3 RPG | 6.1 APG | 1.6 SPG | 46.9 FG% | 55.5% TS
Lakers won the championship

[AlphaWolf24]

So he was better those years than guys leading their teams to the finals as the best players while playing 1 man offense or almost averaging a triple double in the process, respectively? And then you still have KG and Webber who had a very legitimate case over Kobe.

No, not top 3 those two years. Shaq, Duncan, AI in 01 over him and Shaq, Duncan, Kidd in 02. At the least.


(Did you watch the begning of the 01' season?....did you not see GawdBE merk AI and VINCE)

- when did KG and Webber lead thier teams to the Finals??...TMAC was a 1 man offense and his teams were 1 man HORRIBLE!....plus he Easern Conference was Horrible ...the sixers would have neve even gotten outta the first round in the West

- Plus Kobe's Playoff Run was amazing.ad at times he was a 1 man offense...he was leading his team...he was the primary defender and the First option in Crunchtime...
was the Lakers best player vs the Spurs ( real Finals)

- recap: the biggest media outlet in the world called him the best player in the NBA , as did Phil Jackson and Shaq, he put up a Championship Run comparible to any one...

easily top 1 - 3 player

[AlphaWolf24]

2001 Western Conference Finals
33.3 PPG | 7.0 RPG | 7.0 APG | 1.5 SPG | 51.4 % FG | 57.1% TS

2001 Western Conference Semifinals
35.0 PPG | 9.0 RPG | 4.3 APG | 1.3 SPG | 47.3% FG %| 58.8% TS

2001 Playoffs
29.4 PPG | 7.3 RPG | 6.1 APG | 1.6 SPG | 46.9 FG% | 55.5% TS
Lakers won the championship


meh...Webber and Kidd were better:lol

[Brunch@Five]

2001 Western Conference Finals
33.3 PPG | 7.0 RPG | 7.0 APG | 1.5 SPG | 51.4 % FG | 57.1% TS

2001 Western Conference Semifinals
35.0 PPG | 9.0 RPG | 4.3 APG | 1.3 SPG | 47.3% FG %| 58.8% TS

2001 Playoffs
29.4 PPG | 7.3 RPG | 6.1 APG | 1.6 SPG | 46.9 FG% | 55.5% TS
Lakers won the championship

How does that make him better than Shaq (30/15/3)? TD, who averaged 24/15/4? AI, who dropped 50+ twice and 40+ four more time, 33/5/6 for the whole playoffs?

But stick to your WCSF and WCF numbers :oldlol:

edit: Kidd in 02:

Finals: 21/10/7
ECF: 18/10/11
ECSF: 18/7/8
1st round: 22/8/7

[Deuce Bigalow]

How does that make him better than Shaq (30/15/3)? TD, who averaged 24/15/4? AI, who dropped 50+ twice and 40+ four more time, 33/5/6 for the whole playoffs?

But stick to your WCSF and WCF numbers :oldlol:
Shaq was the best player, Kobe was 2nd, Duncan 3rd. AI shot 38.9% and 48% TS so he's not above Kobe, who's the better scorer and defender. Kobe steamrolling Duncan's team gets him the edge over Duncan. But Kobe's at least 3rd.

And btw on the 01 WCF, Duncan's team had HCA but got swept while Kobe was getting everything he wanted out there.

[Brunch@Five]

I love how you only talk about playoffs (where Kobe wasn't even clearly better than his foes), and forget how he was 9th in MVP voting, 11th in DPoY voting, didn't make All-NBA 1st team (Iverson and Kidd at guard), didn't make All-D team 1st either. How does that warrant a top 3 spot in the league? Get real, guys.

[AlphaWolf24]

How does that make him better than Shaq (30/15/3)? TD, who averaged 24/15/4? AI, who dropped 50+ twice and 40+ four more time, 33/5/6 for the whole playoffs?

But stick to your WCSF and WCF numbers :oldlol:

edit: Kidd in 02:

Finals: 21/10/7
ECF: 18/10/11
ECSF: 18/7/8
1st round: 22/8/7

- why was he better then TD nd AI?

that's EZ..because he won title averaging 29.4 PPG | 7.3 RPG | 6.1 APG | 1.6 SPG | 46.9 FG% | 55.5% TS...while playing top shelf defense and closing games like Prime MJ.


- and the other guy's didn't

to the winner goes the spoils...duh.
( the only guy who has a case is Shaq..looking back now..it's laughable to compare anyone but Shaq to Kobe.)

top 1 - 2 easily in 01'

next

[Deuce Bigalow]

I love how you only talk about playoffs (where Kobe wasn't even clearly better than his foes), and forget how he was 9th in MVP voting, 11th in DPoY voting, didn't make All-NBA 1st team (Iverson and Kidd at guard), didn't make either All-D team. How does that warrant a top 3 spot in the league? Get real, guys.
00-01 was Kobe's breakout year. He was top 5 in MVP voting and All-NBA First Team every year since then (except 04-05)
Kobe was better in 00-01 than he was in 01-02, but in 01-02 when he was worse he climbed up on the MVP voting. :confusedshrug: Let's remember that Shaq was on the SAME team. And MVP voting doesn't determine who's better, I can give plenty of examples of that.

[Brunch@Five]

Media (MVP-award) and coaches (All-NBA) thought otherwise that year though. And so did every non-stan back then, hate to break it to you. I know your a major stan, but at this point you're just trolling.

[AlphaWolf24]

I love how you only talk about playoffs (where Kobe wasn't even clearly better than his foes), and forget how he was 9th in MVP voting, 11th in DPoY voting, didn't make All-NBA 1st team (Iverson and Kidd at guard), didn't make either All-D team. How does that warrant a top 3 spot in the league? Get real, guys.


yes becuase MVP voting means who's better?...(was Dirk the best player in 07'?..Nash in 06'))

01' was Kobe's first year as a top 3 premeire player ( I know he made all Defensive first team in 00' but 01' is when he put it all together)

not sure wh was lower then TMAC / malone and KG?..he was playing better and his team was winning.:confusedshrug: (and remember MVP voting is based before the playoff's)

but just as I said ( and man others) after the Lakers won a Title and how great Kobe played in the Playoff's...he was clearly a top 3 player

[AlphaWolf24]

Media (MVP-award) and coaches (All-NBA) thought otherwise that year though. And so did every non-stan back then, hate to break it to you. I know your a major stan, but at this point you're just trolling.


- so the playoff's and winning don't mean anything...??


- FFS....like nearly everyone has stated ...his playoff run put him up into elite status top 3 player.

- Before the 06' playoff's was Wade a top 5 player?.....after the playoff's he mos def was

[Deuce Bigalow]

Media (MVP-award) and coaches (All-NBA) thought otherwise that year though. And so did every non-stan back then, hate to break it to you. I know your a major stan, but at this point you're just trolling.
Then the Playoffs happened.
But your probably a Spur/Duncan homer that's mad that Kobe raped his team/player for the last decade.

[BlackVVaves]

Kobe wasn't (considered) top 3 in 00-01 already. Shaq was inarguably better, so was Duncan. Webber put up 27/11/4. Garnett was climbing the ranks. Iverson lead his team to the finals that year and won MVP. Vince Carter was phenomenal that year too, and so was JKidd. So there is a case for him not even being top 5. Kobe actually only finished 9th in MVP voting that year.

01-02? You again had Shaq and Duncan, also Kidd who was just barely etched out by Duncan for MVP and led his team to the finals. He was battling with TMac and KG for #4 that year IMO.

I know that in hindsight things can look different, but you just can't dismiss that guys like Kidd, Webber, TMac, and Iverson were in their primes those years while Kobe was just beginning to enter his. Also, and I know this is a dead horse, those guys lead their teams (TMac less gloriously than the others).

I don't think it's dismissing. Kobe was clearly the best at his position that year, and produced at an enormously high level en route to a championship. He was a better defender than TMac, Iverson, and Webber in 2001, and was a vastly better scorer than Kidd in 2001. The "leading teams" sentiment is a pragmatic approach to the dynamics of that 2001 Laker team in particular, since it was the perfect example of a 1A, 1B tandem in LA. Kobe and Shaq wrecked havok on the league without much help (nor did they need it, at least in the latter part of the season/beginning of the post-season).

29, 6, 5, and 2 is nothing to scoff at. Outside of Shaq and Duncan, the only player I'd consider taking over Kobe in 2001 is Webber. And, that is a modest and debatable consideration, after watching Kobe murder the Kings in that year's Western Conference Semis, to a tune of 35 PPG, 9 RPG, AND 4 APG on 47% shooting. at 22 years old :wtf:

Oh, and did you really mention Vince Carter in the same breath as Shaq, Duncan, and Webber? :facepalm

[9erempiree]

Kobe was clearly top 3. Easily.

I think he was overshadowed by Shaq. Take Shaq off that team and imagine the sick numbers he would be averaging. Those are MVP numbers. To do that and have a teammate put up that much is pretty sick.

Easily top 3.

[9erempiree]

I don't think it's dismissing. Kobe was clearly the best at his position that year, and produced at an enormously high level en route to a championship. He was a better defender than TMac, Iverson, and Webber in 2001, and was a vastly better scorer than Kidd in 2001. The "leading teams" sentiment is a pragmatic approach to the dynamics of that 2001 Laker team in particular, since it was the perfect example of a 1A, 1B tandem in LA. Kobe and Shaq wrecked havok on the league without much help (nor did they need it, at least in the latter part of the season/beginning of the post-season).

29, 6, 5, and 2 is nothing to scoff at. Outside of Shaq and Duncan, the only player I'd consider taking over Kobe in 2001 is Webber. And, that is a modest and debatable consideration, after watching Kobe murder the Kings in that year's Western Conference Semis, to a tune of 35 PPG, 9 RPG, AND 4 APG on 47% shooting. at 22 years old :wtf:

Oh, and did you really mention Vince Carter in the same breath as Shaq, Duncan, and Webber? :facepalm

Good analysis.

[Euroleague]

WTF kind of thread is this?

Kobe is easily the best player of that 2000-2012 era.

[9erempiree]

WTF kind of thread is this?

Kobe is easily the best player of that 2000-2012 era.

Basically this.

[rodman91]

No.

[Big#50]

Kobe wouldn't even be drafted top 20 in an all time draft.