Elgin Baylor averaged 40.6ppg in 1962 NBA Finals and had a 61 point game!?

[CavaliersFTW]

1962 NBA Finals statline:
Averaged 40.6ppg :eek:
G1 35pts, G2 36pts, G3 39pts, G4 38pts, G5 61pts, G6 34pts, G7 41pts

Also impressive is his 1963 NBA Finals:
1963 NBA Finals statline:
Averaged 33.8ppg on 47% 15rpg 4.3apg
G1 30pts, G2 33pts, G3 38pts, G4 31pts, G5 43pts, G6 28pts

In his prime before injury when he was the teams #1 option he was a better Finals performer than almost any player in NBA history with rings... But he retired w/o one. I feel bad for the guy

[SyRyanYang]

inb4 weak era

[BlueandGold]

Did you just learn about this?

This is why Baylor is one of the greatest all time.

A better question is how Wilt managed to not win a championship with West and Baylor on the same team as him...

he needed the 72 Laker team.. with Baylor, Goodrich, Pat Riley(college star/all-american), West and Happy Hairston(5 seasons averaged 18+ ppg) all on the same team as him

[LosBulls]

Weak Era. Next.

[CavaliersFTW]

Did you just learn about this?

This is why Baylor is one of the greatest all time.

A better question is how Wilt managed to not win a championship with West and Baylor on the same team as him.
Well I know more about the Lakers when Wilt was on the team (with Baylor past his prime and injury prone) than I do about the Lakers when Baylor was in his prime. I knew about the 61 point game, didn't know he averaged over 40 that series though. When Wilt was on the team there are clear reasons why things didn't fall into place in every season they were together except 1970.

[jongib369]

1962 NBA Finals statline:
Averaged 40.6ppg :eek:
G1 35pts, G2 36pts, G3 39pts, G4 38pts, G5 61pts, G6 34pts, G7 41pts

Also impressive is his 1963 NBA Finals:
1963 NBA Finals statline:
Averaged 33.8ppg on 47% 15rpg 4.3apg
G1 30pts, G2 33pts, G3 38pts, G4 31pts, G5 43pts, G6 28pts

In his prime before injury when he was the teams #1 option he was a better Finals performer than almost any player in NBA history with rings... But he retired w/o one. I feel bad for the guy
mans a beast, hate that weak era BS. Wish there was more footage of him but your highlight gives a great glimpse on how great he was :applause:

In your opinion, compared to today's game

> <

C 60's ? 10's

PF 60's ? 10's


SF 60's ? 10's


SG 60's ? 10's


PG 60's ? 10's

[BlueandGold]

Well I know more about the Lakers when Wilt was on the team (with Baylor past his prime and injury prone) than I do about the Lakers when Baylor was in his prime. I knew about the 61 point game, didn't know he averaged over 40 that series though. When Wilt was on the team there are clear reasons why things didn't fall into place in every season they were together except 1970.
So I assume then that your primarily a Wilt fan instead of primarily a Laker fan?

Me I'm a huge Laker fan and anyone who has seen me post on here know that I know the Lakers history front to back.. which is why i'm a little critical of Wilt.. to not win with some of the greatest players of all time is =/, -_-

[jongib369]

So I assume then that your primarily a Wilt fan instead of primarily a Laker fan?

Me I'm a huge Laker fan and anyone who has seen me post on here know that I know the Lakers history front to back.. which is why i'm a little critical of Wilt.. to not win with some of the greatest players of all time is =/, -_-
Is it true that literally as soon as Baylor retired they went on that winning streak? The first year was the coach, but after that I really don't know...West and Wilt won a chip together but why they couldn't with another HOFer is weird..."Chemistry" issues with Wilt and Baylor at all?

[CavaliersFTW]

So I assume then that your primarily a Wilt fan instead of primarily a Laker fan?

Me I'm a huge Laker fan and anyone who has seen me post on here know that I know the Lakers history front to back.. which is why i'm a little critical of Wilt.. to not win with some of the greatest players of all time is =/, -_-
Wilt won you LA's first ring as the clear cut best player - you can be sore at him for '69 maybe because both he and the coach were poisoning the team together by spitting acid at each other but in no way does Wilt deserve harsh criticism for any of his other seasons spent with the Lakers. **EDIT** aside from the way he left too, I'm pretty sure he breached contract by trying to join the ABA right?

West is also my 2nd fav player from that time period - I am a big Lakers follower from that time - got as good a collection of footage of the Lakers from 1960-1972 as one can have

[CavaliersFTW]

Is it true that literally as soon as Baylor retired they went on that winning streak? The first year was the coach, but after that I really don't know...West and Wilt won a chip together but why they couldn't with another HOFer is weird..."Chemistry" issues with Wilt and Baylor at all?
Yes. Prob part of the reason why he is so underrated as a player - I'm sure that made his legacy take an (unfair) hit.

Off court chemistry issues? No, none that I'm aware of - Wilt and Baylor got along.

On court? Wilt took up a lot of space in the middle and Baylor was an inside player that needed openings to drive. So they didn't exactly compliment each others game. They still could have won in both 69 and 70 though.

[Psileas]

Elgin Baylor averaged 40.6ppg in 1962 NBA Finals and had a 61 point game!?

And 17.3 rpg, too. He chucked a lot of shots, though - I think he shot 43% from the field in the series.

[jongib369]

And 17.3 rpg, too. He chucked a lot of shots, though - I think he shot 43% from the field in the series.
17.3 rebounds...JESUS LOL...Who do you think he's equivalent to in rebounding 90's and up? Or how much you think he would grab today?

[CavaliersFTW]

So I assume then that your primarily a Wilt fan instead of primarily a Laker fan?

Me I'm a huge Laker fan and anyone who has seen me post on here know that I know the Lakers history front to back.. which is why i'm a little critical of Wilt.. to not win with some of the greatest players of all time is =/, -_-
Being that your a Lakers fan first - which I highly respect -

Can you explain to me why Lakers forums like Lakersground disrespects the sh*t out of Elgin Baylor!??! I bring up Wilt and show some Wilt vids - they worship the dude and are even willing to throw Shaq under the bus (unfairly) when comparing the two... I bring up West and they say "he's one of the few players from back then who could play today" (something I disagree with because I think many player back then wouldn't have trouble today) which means they also respect West's game. I bring up Baylor... and oh man, they just shred him, they say he can't play in the modern era, they say he can't dribble, had bad footwork, sucked at defense, is undersized - etc etc etc (most of the criticisms aren't even valid). They say "I respect what he did for the game and all - but he wouldn't be able to play today"... they don't respect him. They treat him like he's Mikan - a 50's dinosaur. Wilt's vids generate a ton of views and discussion - Elgin's vids generate almost no views (nobody cares to watch it) and almost no discussion - the ones that do watch them feel the need to critique his game rather than compliment it.

Is that a thing with young Laker fans these days? Or is that probably isolated to just that forum community?

[jongib369]

Being that your a Lakers fan first - which I highly respect -

Can you explain to me why Lakers forums like Lakersground disrespects the sh*t out of Elgin Baylor!??! I bring up Wilt and show some Wilt vids - they worship the dude and are even willing to throw Shaq under the bus (unfairly) when comparing the two... I bring up West and they say "he's one of the few players from back then who could play today" (something I disagree with because I think many player back then wouldn't have trouble today) which means they also respect West's game. I bring up Baylor... and oh man, they just shred him, they say he can't play in the modern era, they say he can't dribble, is undersized - etc etc etc. They say "I respect what he did for the game and all - but he wouldn't be able to play today"... they don't respect him.

Is that a thing with young Laker fans these days? Or is that probably isolated to just that forum community?
Wait...you're telling me Wilt gets respected by the general consensus of young laker's fans on a board?

http://shutternomad.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/wpid-the-twilight-zone-2011-03-9-14-15.jpg

[G.O.A.T]

And 17.3 rpg, too. He chucked a lot of shots, though - I think he shot 43% from the field in the series.

Baylor was never efficent per se, but considering the league average at that time and that Wilt shot like 47% during those playoffs, Russell 46% and only Oscar topped 50%, Baylor's 44% for the postseason doesn't look that bad.


17.3 rebounds...JESUS LOL...Who do you think he's equivalent to in rebounding 90's and up? Or how much you think he would grab today?

Based on what the rest of the league was doing at both times it's like 10-12 rpg. A lot for a small forward, but not a league leader.

[CavaliersFTW]

Baylor was never efficent per se, but considering the league average at that time and that Wilt shot like 47% during those playoffs, Russell 46% and only Oscar topped 50%, Baylor's 44% for the postseason doesn't look that bad.



Based on what the rest of the league was doing at both times it's like 10-12 rpg. A lot for a small forward, but not a league leader.
this -

And rebounding % isn't the whole story but Baylor's calculated rebound (13.9) % is higher than say - Lebron (career 10.5) - but it isn't quite Barkley-like or anything (career 18.2%). Still very impressive for a guy his height tho, probably the highest rebounding percentage of all time for a player that height (6-5 range) not named Charles Barkley.

Elgin Baylor

59 - 14.9
60 - 14.9
61 - 17.3
62 - 16.5
63 - 14.3
64 - 13.1
65 - 13.2
66 - 12.8
67 - 13.4
68 - 13.4
69 - 11.5
70 - 12.7
71 - 8.6
72 -10.6

Career TRB%: 13.9%

[Psileas]

17.3 rebounds...JESUS LOL...Who do you think he's equivalent to in rebounding 90's and up? Or how much you think he would grab today?

A player whose rebounding I would compare to Baylor's would be prime Shawn Marion. I'd roughly guess Baylor in 1962 would have a rebounding rate somewhere at 16% - we don't have opponent team rebounds, but I estimated that the Lakers were a bit worse than the league average in rebounding. So, 11-12 rpg for prime Baylor at 40-41 mpg seems like a somewhat close estimation.

[Psileas]

this -

And rebounding % isn't the whole story but Baylor's calculated rebound (13.9) % is higher than say - Lebron (career 10.5) - but it isn't quite Barkley-like or anything (career 18.2%). Still very impressive for a guy his height tho, probably the highest rebounding percentage of all time for a player that height (6-5 range) not named Charles Barkley.

Elgin Baylor

59 - 14.9
60 - 14.9
61 - 17.3
62 - 16.5
63 - 14.3
64 - 13.1
65 - 13.2
66 - 12.8
67 - 13.4
68 - 13.4
69 - 11.5
70 - 12.7
71 - 8.6
72 -10.6

Career TRB%: 13.9%

Ops, I didn't see these numbers. Where did you get these estimates from?
Seems like your figure of 16.5 is pretty close to my rough estimation of 16, btw. Again, that would give him 11-12 rpg for a prime season, at 40-41 mpg.

[Psileas]

Baylor was never efficent per se, but considering the league average at that time and that Wilt shot like 47% during those playoffs, Russell 46% and only Oscar topped 50%, Baylor's 44% for the postseason doesn't look that bad.

I didn't put his 43% as a contrast to today's numbers. I know it's more impressive considering context. The playoff league average in 1962 was 41.1% FG.

[ThaRegul8r]

Did you just learn about this?

In other breaking news, man has landed on the moon...

[Deuce Bigalow]

this -

And rebounding % isn't the whole story but Baylor's calculated rebound (13.9) % is higher than say - Lebron (career 10.5) - but it isn't quite Barkley-like or anything (career 18.2%). Still very impressive for a guy his height tho, probably the highest rebounding percentage of all time for a player that height (6-5 range) not named Charles Barkley.

Elgin Baylor

59 - 14.9
60 - 14.9
61 - 17.3
62 - 16.5
63 - 14.3
64 - 13.1
65 - 13.2
66 - 12.8
67 - 13.4
68 - 13.4
69 - 11.5
70 - 12.7
71 - 8.6
72 -10.6

Career TRB%: 13.9%
How'd you find his TRB% numbers? I thought that was only since 70-71..

[SpecialQue]

Weak Era. Next.

Shitty poster.

Next.

[CavaliersFTW]

Ops, I didn't see these numbers. Where did you get these estimates from?
Seems like your figure of 16.5 is pretty close to my rough estimation of 16, btw. Again, that would give him 11-12 rpg for a prime season, at 40-41 mpg.


How'd you find his TRB% numbers? I thought that was only since 70-71..

Details here:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=344&t=955514

[CavaliersFTW]

Bump.

[inclinerator]

weak era

-smak

[Cocaine80s]

never heard of this old ass nig*a

[CavaliersFTW]

61 points and also Elgin grabbed 22 boards that game

Repeat... 61 and 22.

Let's keep the Lebron hype under check please. 35 and 10 is a solid performance by him, but even by his own standards it is nothing extraordinary, let alone NBA's historically dominant Finals performers.

[Cocaine80s]

60/20 in the 60s is like 28/12 in the 2000s

[CavaliersFTW]

60/20 in the 60s is like 28/12 in the 2000s
More like 61 and 12

[livinglegend]

61 points and also Elgin grabbed 22 boards that game

Repeat... 61 and 22.

Let's keep the Lebron hype under check please. 35 and 10 is a solid performance by him, but even by his own standards it is nothing extraordinary, let alone NBA's historically dominant Finals performers.

+11 with him on the floor (60% team Fg) , -9 without him in 11 minutes of play (30% team FG). He did lot of things that dont show on the stats sheet.

[rhowen4]

Mark that under who gives a shit.

[jongib369]

1962 NBA Finals statline:
Averaged 40.6ppg :eek:
G1 35pts, G2 36pts, G3 39pts, G4 38pts, G5 61pts, G6 34pts, G7 41pts

Also impressive is his 1963 NBA Finals:
1963 NBA Finals statline:
Averaged 33.8ppg on 47% 15rpg 4.3apg
G1 30pts, G2 33pts, G3 38pts, G4 31pts, G5 43pts, G6 28pts

In his prime before injury when he was the teams #1 option he was a better Finals performer than almost any player in NBA history with rings... But he retired w/o one. I feel bad for the guy

Is his FG% known for the first one you mentioned?

[pauk]

Who cares, he is 0 of 1000 in Finals, should have lost earlier than Finals so he didnt have to be that and hence be ranked higher on all time list.

[IncarceratedBob]

Those stats need to be adjusted for era and pace

[Marchesk]

Who cares, he is 0 of 1000 in Finals, should have lost earlier than Finals so he didnt have to be that and hence be ranked higher on all time list.

And where does Reggie Miller rank on finals performances?

[Marchesk]

Mark that under who gives a shit.

People older than 16? :confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

Did you just learn about this?

This is why Baylor is one of the greatest all time.

A better question is how Wilt managed to not win a championship with West and Baylor on the same team as him...

he needed the 72 Laker team.. with Baylor, Goodrich, Pat Riley(college star/all-american), West and Happy Hairston(5 seasons averaged 18+ ppg) all on the same team as him

Baylor was done in the 70s bro, he was 35 when Wilt joined the team and played a total of 65 regular season games in his last 3 seasons. Also put up only 18 ppg against the Knicks in the 1970 Finals.

[Just2McFly]

Who cares, he is 0 of 1000 in Finals, should have lost earlier than Finals so he didnt have to be that and hence be ranked higher on all time list.
WTF...boy was Balling out of his mind, him and west deserve to be respected man...he put numbers on the boards

[senelcoolidge]

Baylor is so overlooked. His name should always be mentioned when talking about all time greats..especially SF's. He should be in the discussion for greatest SF ever.

[HomieWeMajor]

One of the earliest account of statpadding