Rockets/Bulls Finals 94 and 95

[LA Lakers]

Too me, my biggest regret for basketball in the 90s right behind Magic retiring early because of HIV, was Hakeem and Jordan not meeting in the Finals. Hakeem The Dream, in my humble opinion, is the greatest center of the last 25 years. He was waiting for Jordan(twice) while MJ was off playing minor league baseball(not well). So my question, if MJs Bulls and Hakeems Rockets met in 94 and 95, who you got and why?

[Money 23]

Was just going to make this thread. Good looking out.

Why did the other Kobe instead of MJ on Bulls thread get deleted? I made a post responding to you there.

Either way, it would've been a very fun series ... both years.

I think the Bulls win in '94. If the Knicks almost won in '94 with Starks playing terrible, I don't see MJ having a bad finals in his prime. Plus Vernon Maxwell would be guarding him, and Vernon always tried to start stuff with Jordan cause he was crazy ... and MJ is a beast when mad.

The Rockets win in '95. The addition of Drexler not far from his prime to the Rockets and subtraction of Horace Grant is too much to overcome. Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry would have FIELD days at the PF position, what with all the attention being placed on Hakeem and no legit power or swing 4 to guard Thorpe or Horry.

Another great regret is the Bulls being broken up early. I would've loved to have seen Jordan's Bulls v.s. Robinson / Duncan's Spurs in 1999. If the Bulls would've paid Scottie and Phil, added some younger athletes around MJ / Pip / and Rodman ... I think it would be a great series with SA front court dominance, and Chicago's perimeter dominance.

I also think the Bulls could've competed or won in 2000 v.s. the Lakers. And would've loved to see the re-match in 2001, where given Kobe's ridiculous improvement ... LA would've dethroned the Bulls. The torch would be passed from one dynasty to another, and from MJ to Kobe.

Part of the reason the 90's Bulls retain such mystique is because we never saw them dethroned or defeated. Crumbs and Reinsjew beat themselves.

Still can't blame them for '94 and '95. MJ and his damn depression / sabbatical.

=/

[LA Lakers]

Was just going to make this thread. Good looking out.

Why did the other Kobe instead of MJ on Bulls thread get deleted? I made a post responding to you there.

Either way, it would've been a very fun series ... both years.

I think the Bulls win in '94. If the Knicks almost won in '94 with Starks playing terrible, I don't see MJ having a bad finals in his prime. Plus Vernon Maxwell would be guarding him, and Vernon always tried to start stuff with Jordan cause he was crazy ... and MJ is a beast when mad.

The Rockets win in '95. The addition of Drexler not far from his prime to the Rockets and subtraction of Horace Grant is too much to overcome. Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry would have FIELD days at the PF position, what with all the attention being placed on Hakeem and no legit power or swing 4 to guard Thorpe or Horry.

Another great regret is the Bulls being broken up early. I would've loved to have seen Jordan's Bulls v.s. Robinson / Duncan's Spurs in 1999. If the Bulls would've paid Scottie and Phil, added some younger athletes around MJ / Pip / and Rodman ... I think it would be a great series with SA front court dominance, and Chicago's perimeter dominance.

I also think the Bulls could've competed or won in 2000 v.s. the Lakers. And would've loved to see the re-match in 2001, where given Kobe's ridiculous improvement ... LA would've dethroned the Bulls. The torch would be passed from one dynasty to another, and from MJ to Kobe.

Part of the reason the 90's Bulls retain such mystique is because we never saw them dethroned or defeated. Crumbs and Reinsjew beat themselves.

Still can't blame them for '94 and '95. MJ and his damn depression / sabbatical.

=/
Word. Im still saying its a tough to call this "what if". But I feel you on 95. Acquistion of Clyde plus you guys aint stopping(assuming youre a Bull/Chicago native) Hakeem or OT with Longley and Perdue. Now, if yall had acquired Rodman... Different story. But great response. You took the words outta my mouth... This would change the whole legacy of 90s basketball. And maybe Hakeem gets a little more love...

[Bigsmoke]

I can see The Bulls having some tired legs in 1995

other than that...

..you know

[fsvr54]

Bulls win in 94, Rockets weren't going to be stopped in 95

[97 bulls]

I agree with Money. The Bulls win handedly in 94. And we honestly already know how they'd fair in 95. Even if Jordan wasn't rusty, I don't see them even getting past Orlando.

I do feel theybeat San Antonio in 99. Its also too bad the Bulls couldn't have kept Brian Williams. His 17/9 ability would've really helped them going forward even after Jordan and Pippen. The Bulls never had a guy, a big that good. That's why I feel the 97 Bulls was the Bulls dynasties best single season team.and best team ever

[Bigsmoke]

Bulls win in 94, Rockets weren't going to be stopped in 95

thats what i was thinking

The Bulls with Kokoc would be even better than they were in 93.

The Rockets in 1995 were truly amazing.

but whatever. I was was living in Texas when to Rockets were winning those titles in 94 and 95 i would be satisfied either way somehow.

[Whoah10115]

Thorpe was traded for Drexler, so the Rockets would not have had both in 95.

[Money 23]

Also ...

The Chicago Bulls of 1994 would've been not only the best Bulls team ever, but one of the top five teams of all-time.

BJ was coming into his own, had his beast season ever. The addition of Kukoc. Horace Grant in a major contract year. Pippen at his absolute peak of abilities (physical + skill), and one of the last few years of MJ's prime (not far from peak) ... and of course, assuming we still sign the BEAST that was Pete Myers to relive MJ off the bench.


Thorpe was traded for Drexler, so the Rockets would not have had both in 95.
Oops, my fault. I forgot. Either way we still don't have a stretch 4 to cover Robert Horry.

[LA Lakers]

Forget Horry. Pip/MJ/Harper can rotate and switch multiple coverage. Also, a lot to ask with Glyde moving the ball and Horry open on the perimeter. Who is guarding Dream? Can you risk man to man with Longley on Hakeem? I think this might be an interesting outcome... And OT in 94 gives yall problems as well.

[Bigsmoke]

Also ...

The Chicago Bulls of 1994 would've been not only the best Bulls team ever, but one of the top five teams of all-time.

BJ was coming into his own, had his beast season ever. The addition of Kukoc. Horace Grant in a major contract year. Pippen at his absolute peak of abilities (physical + skill), and one of the last few years of MJ's prime (not far from peak) ... and of course, assuming we still sign the BEAST that was Pete Myers to relive MJ off the bench.


Oops, my fault. I forgot. Either way we still don't have a stretch 4 to cover Robert Horry.

right

Grant was playing with Shaq in Orlando in 1995 and Rodman was still in San Antonio.

:biggums:

Hakeem would have averaged like 37ppg if the Bulls and Rockets would have met in the Finals in 1995

[Money 23]

Forget Horry. Pip/MJ/Harper can rotate and switch multiple coverage. Also, a lot to ask with Glyde moving the ball and Horry open on the perimeter. Who is guarding Dream? Can you risk man to man with Longley on Hakeem? I think this might be an interesting outcome... And OT in 94 gives yall problems as well.
Ugh. They create such a scary matchup problem for us.

Rodman given his defensive versatility and quickness would actually probably do a better job on Hakeem, than he even did on Shaq in '96. Which he did a great job.

But yea you're right. We wouldn't have Rodman in '94. Dream would absolutely go ape shit on Luc Longely. :oldlol:

I still think the Bulls win in '94. The Rockets would have such a difficult time getting the ball into Hakeem. MJ and Pip ... one in his prime, the other at his peak is a very difficult thing to handle.

It's an interesting hypothetical. God, I wish this series would've happened.

What are your thoughts on the Bulls v.s. Spurs in 1999?



Hakeem would have averaged like 37ppg if the Bulls and Rockets would have met in the Finals in 1995
I'm talking about '94 Bulls. Either way Hakeem is going BONKERS on Luc Longely.

But in '94 you have Grant w/ help defense. He played extremely well that year, and as I said was in a contract season and he clearly wanted out of Chicago ... so he was going to ball.

MJ in his prime, two years removed from peak. No more need be said.

Pippen at his absolute peak. Peak athleticism, durability, and peaking from a skills perspective. Wreak defensive havoc.

What are Kenny Smith, and Vernon Maxwell going to do when the DOBERMANS are hounding them up the court. I mean once Hakeem gets the ball he's going to sodomize Will Perdue, but he has to GET the ball from a guard first.

And like I also mentioned, BJ was no slouch that year either.

[Bigsmoke]

I'm talking about '94. Either way Hakeem is going BONKERS on Luc Longely.

But in '94 you have Grant w/ help defense. He played extremely well that year, and as I said was in a contract season and he clearly wanted out of Chicago ... so he was going to ball.

MJ in his prime, two years removed from peak. No more need be said.

Pippen at his absolute peak. Peak athleticism, durability, and peaking from a skills perspective. Wreak defensive havoc.

What are Kenny Smith, and Vernon Maxwell going to do when the DOBERMANS are hounding them up the court. I mean once Hakeem gets the ball he's going to sodomize Will Perdue, but he has to GET the ball from a guard first.

And like I also mentioned, BJ was no slouch that year either.


well yeah i wasn't being sarcastic when i said "right". i said early that the Bulls would be even better with Jordan in 1994 they were they in 1993

no doubt about that

[LA Lakers]

Honestly not to simplify 99 Spurs/Bulls what if, it is a TEAM game, but in my opinion it depends on how healthy and ready to go Scottie is... Seemed like 98 it was pretty much all Jordan and Jordan alone against the entire Utah Jazz...

[Money 23]

Honestly not to simplify 99 Spurs/Bulls what if, it is a TEAM game, but in my opinion it depends on how healthy and ready to go Scottie is... Seemed like 98 it was pretty much all Jordan and Jordan alone against the entire Utah Jazz...
Basically, yea

To be honest it was like that the entire season and playoffs.

Pippen's biggest stamp came in his defense of Mark Jackson the first couple games of the ECF. Besides that, 1998 was all old man MJ's will beating teams.

Oh, and Kukoc's hot shooting in game 7 v.s. Indiana. But I agree.

Pippen had some nice performances in the playoffs of 1999 for the Rockets, so I'm going to assume he'd be healthy enough to make a difference. Really though, Pippen was a beast in the '96 regular season but he was never as impactful as people make him out to be. He had a rash of injuries from the '96 post season until the end of the '98 season.

[lakers_forever]

Bulls win in both years and Olajuwon would be ranked lower than Karl Malone in all time rankings.

Prime Jordan and even better than first 3 peat Pippen would destroy anything the Rockets threw at them. Olajuwon would dominate the frountcourt, but in the end it would be enough IMO.

[97 bulls]

right

Grant was playing with Shaq in Orlando in 1995 and Rodman was still in San Antonio.

:biggums:

Hakeem would have averaged like 37ppg if the Bulls and Rockets would have met in the Finals in 1995
I wouldn't be so sure. Olajuwon avg 25 ppg on only 44% shooting vs Longley as a Bull. I could see Pippen and Jordan swarming on Hakeem. Then they could put Harper on Drexler. And Kukoc inability to bang wouldn't have been that big of an issue because Horrys not a bager either

Here Olajuwans stats vs the Bulls with Longley at center.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=longllu01

And let's not dismiss Longley. He was a very good low post defender in his own right.

[IGotACoolStory]

Yep, and it's not a one v one thing.

The Bulls team defense was truly great. But, man, that would have been a fun series in 1995.

[Money 23]

The Bulls team defense was truly great. But, man, that would have been a fun series in 1995.
That's essentially what I was getting at ... MJ / Pippen and even Horance in '94 would create a lot of problems defensively for Houston.

The Knicks were a great team defense, too. Gritty, physical, and a great scheme. But the Bulls had all that too, minus the extent of gritty, but had ridiculous length and athletes that would've cause the smaller Houston guard problems.

How do they let Hakeem beat them if he has trouble getting the rock? It isn't that simple.

And also a side note. Hakeem was known to play down or up to his competition. If he's going against Purdue or Longely, obviously he'd be better but he seemed to get way more motivated going up against Ewing, D-Robinson, and Shaq.

[rezznor]

That's essentially what I was getting at ... MJ / Pippen and even Horance in '94 would create a lot of problems defensively for Houston.

The Knicks were a great team defense, too. Gritty, physical, and a great scheme. But the Bulls had all that too, minus the extent of gritty, but had ridiculous length and athletes that would've cause the smaller Houston guard problems.

How do they let Hakeem beat them if he has trouble getting the rock? It isn't that simple.

And also a side note. Hakeem was known to play down or up to his competition. If he's going against Purdue or Longely, obviously he'd be better but he seemed to get way more motivated going up against Ewing, D-Robinson, and Shaq.
look at their records in the regular season. rockets matched up very well with the bulls

[97 bulls]

That's essentially what I was getting at ... MJ / Pippen and even Horance in '94 would create a lot of problems defensively for Houston.

The Knicks were a great team defense, too. Gritty, physical, and a great scheme. But the Bulls had all that too, minus the extent of gritty, but had ridiculous length and athletes that would've cause the smaller Houston guard problems.

How do they let Hakeem beat them if he has trouble getting the rock? It isn't that simple.

And also a side note. Hakeem was known to play down or up to his competition. If he's going against Purdue or Longely, obviously he'd be better but he seemed to get way more motivated going up against Ewing, D-Robinson, and Shaq.
Great point as far as the Bulls team defense. Id guess they'd probably put Pippen on the Rockets PG. And he'd hound them the same way he did Magic and Mark Jackson. By the time Olajuwan got the ball he'd only have probably five seconds to do something with it. And I can see longley pushing him out of his sweet spots.


As far as matchups, the Bulls may very well be able to beat Houston in 95.

[Money 23]

look at their records in the regular season. rockets matched up very well with the bulls
Playoffs are a different animal.

The Bulls beat the Heat 3 times in 2011 regular season, right? Smashed them in some of the games. Would you dare say they were better? And that was in 4 regular season games.

The Bulls only faced them 2x a year in the regular season. There isn't much rapport in only two games.

In a best of seven series, you can better adapt to a team when you figure them out. The Bulls were the best at this ...

They could match any style of play. Whether it was scoring or defending. Running or slowing the game down.

[guy]

If the only difference is that Jordan is there, Bulls win in 94 and Rockets win in 95.

However, we might want to take into account that the Bulls were pretty much almost in rebuild mode going into the 95 season by letting Grant go and being very close to trading Pippen for Kemp. If Jordan never retires, that never happens. They either pay Grant or at least swing a deal for an actual PF to replace him. If that happens, they win in 95 as well.

[millwad]

The '94 series would have been close, basketball is all about match-ups which some of you guys forget.

Some of you go, "oh, but the Rockets barely beat the Knicks and the Knicks had major trouble with a Jordan-less Bulls". I understand what you mean but it doesn't mean much.

Olajuwon was always a night mare for the Bulls and Jordan, in fact, Olajuwon is the only NBA superstar who played against Jordan during Jordan's first years, his prime and last years while having a winning record against him and the Bulls. Even Bulls at their best lost games vs Hakeem and the Rockets when they were at their worst.

In '95 I don't see the Bulls winning against the Rockets, even if Jordan would have played that whole season I doubt they'd win. They got torched by the Magic who got swept by Houston, that doesn't mean that Houston would have swept Bulls too but no one should forget that Grant wasn't there in '95 and Rodman was still with the Spurs in '95. They would have been destroyed inside by Olajuwon who that year slaughtered MVP Robinson.

[Money 23]

They got torched by the Magic
They didn't get torched. :oldlol:

[millwad]

They didn't get torched. :oldlol:

Torched was the wrong word but they obviously got outplayed.

[rezznor]

Playoffs are a different animal.

The Bulls beat the Heat 3 times in 2011 regular season, right? Smashed them in some of the games. Would you dare say they were better? And that was in 4 regular season games.

The Bulls only faced them 2x a year in the regular season. There isn't much rapport in only two games.

In a best of seven series, you can better adapt to a team when you figure them out. The Bulls were the best at this ...

They could match any style of play. Whether it was scoring or defending. Running or slowing the game down.

I understand that, but there are plenty of people dismissing the Rocket's accomplishments who don't realize that they held their own against Jordan's Bulls. Personally, I think 94 is a toss up, but noone was stopping the 95 Rockets.

[millwad]

I understand that, but there are plenty of people dismissing the Rocket's accomplishments who don't realize that they held their own against Jordan's Bulls. Personally, I think 94 is a toss up, but noone was stopping the 95 Rockets.

Spot on.

It should never be forgotten how bad ass the teams Houston won against in '95 were.

In the first round they beat the 60 win team, Utah Jazz, who had prime Stockton, Prime Malone and prime Hornacek.

In the second round they beat the 59 win team, Phoenix Jazz, who had prime Barkley, prime Johson and prime Majerle.

In the third round they beat the 62 win team, San Antonio Spurs, who had the league MVP and others like Rodman, Elliott, Johnson and Del Negro.

And in the finals they just slaughtered the 57 win team, Orlando Magic, who had a damn good Shaq, prime Penny and great role players like Grant, Scott and Anderson.

[peejay89]

Jordan always found a way to win, Luc Longley had good enough low post dee, and anyone in this thread who thinks the rockets win even one of these series is kidding themselves. Jordan > Olajuwon.

[millwad]

Jordan always found a way to win, Luc Longley had good enough low post dee, and anyone in this thread who thinks the rockets win even one of these series is kidding themselves. Jordan > Olajuwon.

Olajuwon in '95 > Jordan in '95

If you believe anything else you're kidding yourself.
Olajuwon is '95 had one of the most dominant playoff performances in NBA history and his averages in the playoffs that year was;

33 points per game, 10.3 rebounds per game, 4.5 assists per game, 2.8 blocks per game and 1.2 steals per game.

And he did it while crushing the league MVP David Robinson and outplaying Shaq, those 2 guys are among the 10 best centers of all-time.

And Luc Longley? Did you really put Olajuwon in the same sentence as Luc Longley? Olajuwon averaged 35.3pts (56%), 12.5rbs, 5ast, 1.3stl and 4.2 blocks vs MVP David Robinson in the '95 playoffs.. What is Luc Longley supposed to do?

[Money 23]

I understand that, but there are plenty of people dismissing the Rocket's accomplishments who don't realize that they held their own against Jordan's Bulls. Personally, I think 94 is a toss up, but noone was stopping the 95 Rockets.
I'm not. The series is going 6 or 7 games, regardless. I don't know, call it bias ... whatever, I see the Bulls winning in '94.

I don't see them winning in '95 at all, though. Even w/ MJ for a full season and not rusty, their roster just has holes. And the '95 Rockets were better than the '94 team.

I don't think the '95 Bulls are getting swept though, ala the Magic. I think a split between the two in '94 and '95 is a fair conclusion for both.

[97 bulls]

Olajuwon in '95 > Jordan in '95

If you believe anything else you're kidding yourself.
Olajuwon is '95 had one of the most dominant playoff performances in NBA history and his averages in the playoffs that year was;

33 points per game, 10.3 rebounds per game, 4.5 assists per game, 2.8 blocks per game and 1.2 steals per game.

And he did it while crushing the league MVP David Robinson and outplaying Shaq, those 2 guys are among the 10 best centers of all-time.

And Luc Longley? Did you really put Olajuwon in the same sentence as Luc Longley? Olajuwon averaged 35.3pts (56%), 12.5rbs, 5ast, 1.3stl and 4.2 blocks vs MVP David Robinson in the '95 playoffs.. What is Luc Longley supposed to do?
I posted their head to head stats in the five games Longley and Perdue/Wennington played vs Olajuwon. Olajuwon avg 25 ppg on 44% shooting.

[peejay89]

Olajuwon in '95 > Jordan in '95

Hahahahahaha

If Jordan doesn't retire Hakeen retires winless
/thread

[millwad]

I posted their head to head stats in the five games Longley and Perdue/Wennington played vs Olajuwon. Olajuwon avg 25 ppg on 44% shooting.

Go and see what he did in the playoffs in '94 and '95, are you going to claim that Wennington, Longley and Perdue would defend Olajuwon any better than Robinson or Patrick Ewing and the Knicks who triple team'd the guy and couldn't do smack.. :facepalm

[millwad]

Olajuwon in '95 > Jordan in '95

Hahahahahaha

If Jordan doesn't retire Hakeen retires winless
/thread

Jordan was back in '95, they had no chance, they got outplayed by the same Orlando who got swept by Houston. And the most important factor, Grant wasn't there..

[peejay89]

Jordan was back in '95, they had no chance, they got outplayed by the same Orlando who got swept by Houston. And the most important factor, Grant wasn't there..

Jordan was rusty, and if you think grant walks away from the chance at 5 in a row you're delusional.

[97 bulls]

Go and see what he did in the playoffs in '94 and '95, are you going to claim that Wennington, Longley and Perdue would defend Olajuwon any better than Robinson or Patrick Ewing and the Knicks who triple team'd the guy and couldn't do smack.. :facepalm
Off course not. But I also don't think he would avg 37 ppg. Especially when the double team would come from Jordan, Pippen, or Harper.

[TheFan]

Rockets would stop the Bulls in 94 and im pretty sure of that... id go as far as putting money on it... Bulls would be dog tired after 3 straight travels to the finals...

95 is up for grabs... either could win.

[scandisk_]

Olajuwon in '95 > Jordan in '95

Hahahahahaha

/thread

It's true though even if MJ didn't retire in 93. I really just don't see the Bulls winning against Houston in 95. Hakeem would not be denied.

[peejay89]

Michael Jordan 6/6 in the finals.
if they make it there again in 94 and 95 they win.
Hakeen would not be denied? just ask Karl Malone what happens when u see Jordan 2 years in a row.

[scandisk_]

Michael Jordan 6/6 in the finals.
if they make it there again in 94 and 95 they win.
Hakeen would not be denied? just ask Karl Malone what happens when u see Jordan 2 years in a row.

Okay then, let's say they win in 94 and 95?

Do they win 96, 97 and 98? :oldlol: This isn't the 60s dude. My point still remains, without a good PF's presence who can grab boards (see horace) in 95 the Bulls would get slaughtered by Hakeem and the Rockets. Jesus give the Rockets some credit :oldlol:

[peejay89]

I honestly think anything was possible with mj. he proved the doubters wrong time and time again. I think a pippen, kukoc, longley front court was enough. although I think if he doesn't retire the first time he retires after they win their fifth.

[scandisk_]

I honestly think anything was possible with mj. he proved the doubters wrong time and time again. I think a pippen, kukoc, longley front court was enough. although I think if he doesn't retire the first time he retires after they win their fifth.

Well technically that team wasn't enough in 95. 2nd round exit :oldlol:

[LA Lakers]

Hey guys, good stuff. Just gotta say, Luc Longley isnt putting the breaks on Hakeem during a Finals series. In fact, no big man is, was or could.

[LA Lakers]

And bear in mind, this is a what if MJ never left to play for the minor league...

[eliteballer]

Jordan was rusty, and if you think grant walks away from the chance at 5 in a row you're delusional.

Let's see, he comes back and a few games in drops 55 on the Knicks. Then he has TWO MORE MONTHS before playing the Magic while averaging better playoff numbers than 96, 97 or 98.

[LA Lakers]

Cant believe dude dropped 55 @ MSG while not even in basketball shape. Still had a baseball body. Brotha was from another planet.

[Money 23]

Cant believe dude dropped 55 @ MSG while not even in basketball shape. Still had a baseball body. Brotha was from another planet.
Against one of the best defenses in the league, too ... :oldlol:

I wouldn't doubt if he was out all night gambling day before the game in Atlantic City.

[Overdrive]

The Rockets were 5-1 vs the Bulls during their first threepeat years. What exactly makes some people sure the Bulls would win '94 and/or '95?

[JohnnySic]

I'm not sure that the Bulls could have won past '98. They were starting to show signs of wear.

[Da_Realist]

Something I wrote a while back...

From this thread --> http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236053


I think NugsHeat nailed it. The Rockets would have been the other half of the 90's version of the Celtics Lakers rivalry. It would have been a 3 year war from 93-95. Had Houston beaten Chicago in 1993, Jordan would never have retired.

The only guy that could have matched Jordan step for step in a playoff situation was Hakeem Olajuwon. I mean that to say, match him not only in terms of productivity and efficiency, but leadership, clutch ability and having the understanding of when to turn it up to a certain level at the biggest moment. Meaning...if the situation called for Hakeem to put up 40 and 20 to win a game, he could have. If the situation called for 9 blocks, he could have given it. If the Rockets needed a go-to guy, he was it. There was more to Jordan that the numbers indicate. He knew when to turn it on and had the capability to do so. When you felt like you've seen the best of Jordan, he could go higher for a five minute stretch that could put the game completely out of reach. Hakeem could match him in that area from the center position. It would have been fascinating to watch these two guys lead their teams into a Game 5 situation where both teams are tied 2-2. Think Jordan's Game 5 jewel vs the Knicks in the 1993 ECF against Hakeem's masterpiece Game 5 vs the Jazz in the 1995 First Round. This would have been Magic vs Bird part deux.

The Rockets main advantage would have been Hakeem Olajuwon, obviously. Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell are sh*t by themselves, but with Olajuwon on the floor they are potent threats. Robert Horry, Mario Elie, Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell were ALL players that knocked down clutch shots for the Rockets at some point in the playoffs. Every player on the floor was a guy that could deliver in crunch time. You double Hakeem and he'll make Elie look like Danny Ainge. They are the type of team that would have pushed Chicago to the absolute limit and maybe even beaten them.

The Bulls had a few more advantages, though.
1) The coaching staff was the absolute best I've ever seen.
2) Jordan and Pippen were maybe the two smartest players in the league. They had chemistry, they knew how to complement each other's strengths and hide each other's weaknesses. So what you have is an EXTENSION of the coaching staff on the floor. Yet they were smart enough to evaluate the game situation and overrule what the coaches wanted them to do. This is important because it eliminates the need to call a timeout to change strategy.
3) Michael Jordan -- will get back to him in a second

Regular season games mean next to nothing. I've been following basketball since 1987 and I know this to be true. Teams, especially championship teams, only care about the playoffs. Those regular season games meant a lot more to Houston than they did to the Bulls. It's different playing someone in a game of HORSE when you're visiting their home versus playing them best of seven when your wife and children are watching and $1000 is riding on the winner. The first situation is a game. The second is about PRIDE. I think a formidable challenge to Houston would be their ability to adjust to the Bulls adjustments. This is on some Roger Federer type sh*t when he was on top of his game. His greatest advantage was adjusting to you faster than you could adjust to him. I've seen Lleyton Hewitt, Andy Roddick and Marat Safin come up with a game plan that would have him shook for a set and a half. Roger would make an adjustment and quickly whisk them off the court in 4 sets. Why? Because when Roger made his adjustment, those guys needed to huddle with their coach to make a counter-adjustment (which is forbidden in tennis)...so they had to wait until the next match to employ that strategy. Almost the same thing here... The Bulls were smart and they got smarter with each game. Those 10-2 runs by the Bulls would prove to be hard to deal with because Houston wouldn't be able to adjust on the court without calling a timeout. And when they did call timeout, I think the Bulls coaching staff would have a significant advantage over Rudy T's guys. Game to game, maybe it's close to even...but timeout to timeout I think the Bulls steal a couple of points here and there because they could adjust faster than Houston could. And that might be the difference.

If the Rockets played the Bulls, their best chance to beat them would be the first time, in this case 1993. The element of surprise (you cannot "prepare" for The Dream)...those long championship seasons along with the Dream Team experience for Jordan and Pippen that preceded that year took a little bit of life out of the Bulls...normal championship arrogance that creeps into any team that's used to winning...and the Disease of More (Grant was already becoming an irritant this year and there was a little more infighting plus the controversies surrounding The Jordan Rules and Jordan's gambling) all could have compromised the Bulls enough to not be able to withstand the Rockets' challenge.

However, IF this happened I do think the Bulls would have won the next two years for 2 reasons. 1) Chicago is more motivated and given a full year to think on it, would have found a way to neutralize the Rockets strength and exposed their weaknesses. And 2) Michael Jordan. He would have never retired had the Bulls lost in 1993. Furthermore, 1994 would have been an ANGRY Michael Jordan. If he comes back in 1994 to avenge a loss to Houston, we may all be talking about 1994 being his best year ever. People always talk about Jordan didn't do this and he didn't do that...weak league...he didn't face any competition... I think we missed Jordan reaching an even higher level BECAUSE he didn't lose. The man needed competition like the Decepticons needed Energon Cubes. He RETIRED because he didn't feel like there was any competition out there (conspiracy theorists go home). Before coming back, he peppered BJ Armstong about players like Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway and Latrell Spreewell to gauge the competition. He even arranged to "work out" with the Golden State Warriors in order to get a better look at Spreewell. :oldlol: The man was driven by his insane need to compete.

We saw what he was capable of doing after missing damn near two seasons riding a bus in the backwoods of Alabama. Imagine that same drive and focus inside a body that never lost that basketball tuning. Even worse, he lost on the grand stage with everyone watching. Hakeem took Jordan's money in front of his wife and children. :eek: Took his title on the grandest stage AND is named the best player in the NBA? The King is Dead, Long Live the King type of sh*t??? Like Clay Davis said on The Wire...SHeeeeeeeeeeIT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUjh9Id6Id8). There is no way the Bulls don't win in 1994. From 1993 to 1994, the Bulls would have had an angry Jordan, an angry team (I had to separate them for reasons I hope you understand), a coaching staff that would have had a year to adjust and a front office that would have wanted to fill in any holes that were exposed. And I don't think they lose in 1995 either. By that point the Bulls would have locked in on the Rockets tendencies. I know the Rockets had some personnel advantages, but after 2 playoff series, the Bulls would have locked in on how well they adjust, their tendencies in certain situations and for any other mental flaw that can be exposed only in the playoffs. They wouldn't have lost 2 out of 3 against the Rockets.

When all is said and done, I'm putting my money on the best coaching staff and the smartest two leaders (as opposed to just one in Houston). In one playoff series, I don't know. But in a 3 year war, I'm not betting against Michael Jordan in his prime. Hakeem might have gotten him once, but not more than that.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6379603&postcount=59

[scandisk_]

The Rockets were 5-1 vs the Bulls during their first threepeat years. What exactly makes some people sure the Bulls would win '94 and/or '95?

MIA beat the shit out of CHI and BOS in 2011. c'mon dude the playoffs is a different animal.

[Overdrive]

MIA beat the shit out of CHI and BOS in 2011. c'mon dude the playoffs is a different animal.

When did Jordan coast during the regular season? Maybe in the '93 season a little bit, but it's not like the Bulls came into the playoffs as a 6th seed and then stepped it up.

And '11 Mia is the worst example to come up with.

[guy]

Let's see, he comes back and a few games in drops 55 on the Knicks. Then he has TWO MORE MONTHS before playing the Magic while averaging better playoff numbers than 96, 97 or 98.

Spoken like someone that doesn't sound like he watched it. The 55 point game was 1 game. His better playoff numbers don't mean much when that was just a 10 game sample. He had visibly less stamina at the end of games. It was clear as day.

[eliteballer]

Oh, I watched it....along with hearing Bulls "fans" yap about how they were going to cruise to the championship because all they needed was Jordan.

[Da_Realist]

When did Jordan coast during the regular season? Maybe in the '93 season a little bit, but it's not like the Bulls came into the playoffs as a 6th seed and then stepped it up.

And '11 Mia is the worst example to come up with.

It would have been a fantastic matchup and would have been extremely close either way. Houston definitely would have been Chicago's best matchup (and vice versa). But to answer your question, the playoffs are different in two key ways.

1) Coaching is much more important. Phil Jackson and his coaching staff would run circles around Rudy's staff. The Rockets players would have to play well enough to overcome this.

2) It's very different playing 7 games in two weeks as opposed to 2 games out of 82. The focus and pressure are different. Adjustments are more important. Championship-caliber teams will take away your first and second (and possibly third) best options or go-to plays.

I think Chicago would have adjusted better over a long series than Houston would have. That's why I would lean that way even as I admit Chicago had no answer for a motivated Hakeem Olajuwon. (And he would have been motivated, especially if Chicago were the reigning champions).

[Overdrive]

It would have been a fantastic matchup and would have been extremely close either way. Houston definitely would have been Chicago's best matchup (and vice versa). But to answer your question, the playoffs are different in two key ways.

1) Coaching is much more important. Phil Jackson and his coaching staff would run circles around Rudy's staff. The Rockets players would have to play well enough to overcome this.

2) It's very different playing 7 games in two weeks as opposed to 2 games out of 82. The focus and pressure are different. Adjustments are more important. Championship-caliber teams will take away your first and second (and possibly third) best options or go-to plays.

I think Chicago would have adjusted better over a long series than Houston would have. That's why I would lean that way even as I admit Chicago had no answer for a motivated Hakeem Olajuwon. (And he would have been motivated, especially if Chicago were the reigning champions).

I know all of that, but some people here make it seem as the Rockets had no business beating those Bulls. I think of all the teams the would've face during the hypothetical 8-peat the Rockets would provide the biggest problems for the Bulls. The Jazz were the only team that had a superstar big with reliable ability(who choked mightily in some playoff games nonetheless).

Even with the best coaching you cannot transform Luc Longley into an defensive anchor.

[Dragonyeuw]

Bulls in 94. You still had Jordan in his prime( not sure how motivated he'd have been, he was burnt out mentally after 93 but with a title in sight, I'm sure he'd have conjured up the drive. Playing the MVP in Hakeem may have provided all the incentive he needed). Pippen had come into his own as a franchise level talent in his own right, B.J developing further into an excellent backcourt partner for M.J, Grant at his best, a rookie Kukoc off the bench. Thinking about it now, that 94 team could have been truly special.


Rockets in 95. The difference-maker being no Horace Grant or anyone else like that to do the defensive dirty-work that was such a big part of those Bulls title teams. Kukoc was a fine player but he certainly wasn't the answer at power forward. Jordan and Hakeem in 95 cancel each other, Pippen and Clyde more or less the same, and I'd have to give the edge to the Rockets 95 bench over the Bulls. It would have been great to see in any event.

[Dragonyeuw]

I The Jazz were the only team that had a superstar big with reliable ability(who choked mightily in some playoff games nonetheless).



Drexler in 92, Barkley in 93 were all legit and reliable 'superstar' opponents for MJ, as much as Malone was in 97 and 98. Heck, even 'out of his prime' Magic in 91, despite some people trying to act like he was a scrub by then, was an MVP caliber talent.

[millwad]

I mean, Houston also beat teams that MJ and the Bulls faced in the finals. Houston beat Phoenix in '94 and '95 and we all know that they lost in 6 games to the Bulls in '93 and lets not forget that KJ played the best ball of his life in '94.

The Rockets also beat Utah in both '94 and '95,

I really don't see how the Bulls would be able to stop the Rockets in '95 since Grant was gone but even in '94 I see that the Rockets would have a good shot at it.

[guy]

Oh, I watched it....along with hearing Bulls "fans" yap about how they were going to cruise to the championship because all they needed was Jordan.

Doesn't sound like you did. Either way, that was the common feeling at the time because thats what people saw with their eyes. Most unbiased non-Bulls say the same thing about him not being in his best shape as well. Actual players at the time say he wasn't the same as well.

[scandisk_]

I know all of that, but some people here make it seem as the Rockets had no business beating those Bulls.

Lolz I'm in agreement that the Rockets would win 94 and the Bulls having no business against Houston in the 95. All I said is that the playoffs is a different kind of animal. Prime MJ + same core + coaching staff. That's an even matchup against the Rockets.

so yeah we're in the same page.

:pimp:

[DatAsh]

Doesn't sound like you did. Either way, that was the common feeling at the time because thats what people saw with their eyes. Most unbiased non-Bulls say the same thing about him not being in his best shape as well. Actual players at the time say he wasn't the same as well.

I can't think of any major sport in which a player can take an 18 month break from and expect to come back the same player he was before - or back to that player within 2 months - especially at that level.

Jordan was definitely rusty in 95, but even with a non rusty-no-retirement-Jordan, I don't see them beating the Rockets in 95'. They may get past Orlando, but the Rockets swept Orlando.

[guy]

I can't think of any major sport in which a player can take an 18 month break from and expect to come back the same player he was before - or back to that player within 2 months - especially at that level.

Jordan was definitely rusty in 95, but even with a non rusty-no-retirement-Jordan, I don't see them beating the Rockets in 95'. They may get past Orlando, but the Rockets swept Orlando.

I don't think they do either as they were. But I said before, they were pretty much almost in rebuild mode going into the 95 season by letting Grant go and getting so close to trading Pippen. In fact, if Jordan never came back, I have my doubts that Pippen would've been there after 95. My point is if Jordan never left and they were coming off a 4th straight championship, I think its doubtful that they let go of Grant without at least getting an actual PF or much better center to replace that presence. And if thats the case, I'd go with the Bulls.

[Duncan21formvp]

Well if the Rockets don't win it in 1994 then in 1995 what do they have to look back on because they wouldn't have been a champion to hang there hats on. That is also a main reason they won in 1995 because they were still the champs and knew what it took to win, but if they lose in 1994 then who is say they know what a champion should do in order to win?

[Money 23]

I don't think they do either as they were. But I said before, they were pretty much almost in rebuild mode going into the 95 season by letting Grant go and getting so close to trading Pippen. In fact, if Jordan never came back, I have my doubts that Pippen would've been there after 95. My point is if Jordan never left and they were coming off a 4th straight championship, I think its doubtful that they let go of Grant without at least getting an actual PF or much better center to replace that presence. And if thats the case, I'd go with the Bulls.
Grant wasn't in it for the rings, though. At that point in his career he wanted recognition, and pay day. There was also a known beef w/ Jordan, considering he hated being in the shadow of him and Pippen ... and MJ hated him because he leaked all that stuff to Sam Smith for the book "the Jordan Rules".

I say they win in '94, lose in '95 ... re-load much the same way they did w/ Rodman and become re-energized to go onto another three peat. That pain is part of what fueled MJ and the Bulls to be so dominant in '96. Trying to re-claim the throne.

[guy]

Grant wasn't in it for the rings, though. At that point in his career he wanted recognition, and pay day. There was also a known beef w/ Jordan, considering he hated being in the shadow of him and Pippen ... and MJ hated him because he leaked all that stuff to Sam Smith for the book "the Jordan Rules".

I say they win in '94, lose in '95 ... re-load much the same way they did w/ Rodman and become re-energized to go onto another three peat. That pain is part of what fueled MJ and the Bulls to be so dominant in '96. Trying to re-claim the throne.

Bulls either pay him his money or get some kind of physical presence down there to replace him, which isn't that hard to do since players like him were not that hard to replace.

[Psileas]

I mean, Houston also beat teams that MJ and the Bulls faced in the finals. Houston beat Phoenix in '94 and '95 and we all know that they lost in 6 games to the Bulls in '93 and lets not forget that KJ played the best ball of his life in '94.

The Rockets also beat Utah in both '94 and '95,

I really don't see how the Bulls would be able to stop the Rockets in '95 since Grant was gone but even in '94 I see that the Rockets would have a good shot at it.

That's an argument I agree with when it comes to respecting the Rockets: They beat similar Western teams with what the Bulls did to earn people's respect, plus the Knicks and the Magic. I don't see how a Bulls' fan can talk about how good competition was in the 90's, then dismiss what the Rockets did these 2 seasons, especially in 1995 against practically the same opponents - just imagine Jordan leading the Bulls to the title while breaking 4 opponent home court advantages in a row and performing at Hakeem's level, destroying the MVP, outplaying Malone, Barkley and young Shaq, his fans would build a shrine for this season alone.

[Smoke117]

Grant wasn't in it for the rings, though. At that point in his career he wanted recognition, and pay day. There was also a known beef w/ Jordan, considering he hated being in the shadow of him and Pippen ... and MJ hated him because he leaked all that stuff to Sam Smith for the book "the Jordan Rules".

I say they win in '94, lose in '95 ... re-load much the same way they did w/ Rodman and become re-energized to go onto another three peat. That pain is part of what fueled MJ and the Bulls to be so dominant in '96. Trying to re-claim the throne.

If they had paid Grant though would Pippen even still have been around? He wasn't an ego guy when it came to players, but he was an ego guy when it came to money and if Grant did get paid that would have Grant AND Kukoc getting paid more than him when he was obviously the 2nd best player on the team and a top 5 to 10 player in the league around 95-98, so while he demanded two trades anyway that was primarily just talk. I'm pretty sure he would have really gotten serious and wanted out of Chicago if lets say they won in 94, Grant got paid, and they were unwilling to restructure his contract.

[guy]

If they had paid Grant though would Pippen even still have been around? He wasn't an ego guy when it came to players, but he was an ego guy when it came to money and if Grant did get paid that would have Grant AND Kukoc getting paid more than him when he was obviously the 2nd best player on the team and a top 5 to 10 player in the league around 95-98, so while he demanded two trades anyway that was primarily just talk. I'm pretty sure he would have really gotten serious and wanted out of Chicago if lets say they won in 94, Grant got paid, and they were unwilling to restructure his contract.

BJ Armstrong and Ron Harper were also making more then him. On top of that, I believe they were paying Jordan his contract even while retired. At least paying Grant would've been more understandable. Pippen was financially disrespected enough, I don't think anything else was going to put him over the edge more then he already was.

[fsvr54]

Michael Jordan 6/6 in the finals.
if they make it there again in 94 and 95 they win.
Hakeen would not be denied? just ask Karl Malone what happens when u see Jordan 2 years in a row.

Malone would have had 1 if he wasn't such a choker, MJ didn't beat him, he beat himself.