66% of NBA GMs call Kobe the best shooting guard in the league

[Nick Young]

Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 66.7%
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 23.3%

Glad to see these GMs know their stuff.

THE DEBATE IS OVER.

[red1]

we gon see

[CavaliersFTW]

Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 66.7%
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 23.3%

Glad to see these GMs know their stuff.

THE DEBATE IS OVER.
I'm not even a Kobe fan and I've got to say; when was this ever even a debate? :wtf:

[kennethgriffin]

what debate?

kobe will retire the leagues best SG

he just doesnt age... he lost a bit of athleticism after 2004... then a bit more after 2006... but since then hes been about the same. hasnt aged much at all

[Fudge]

He always was. There was never a debate.

[MiamiThrice]

How many votes did he get as the best player(and who got the most?)

[kennethgriffin]

How many votes did he get as the best player(and who got the most?)

who cares. lebron being better than kobe right now is like jordan being better than magic in 1991

magic was still the best PG in the game at the time. but its obvious a legendary player like lebron should atleast be better than kobe in his 17th year

i'd say lebron took over the league by default. kobe had it for 10 years. it was time for him to give it up

his 2000-2001 average was 28/6/5 for god sake and 30/7/6 in the playoffs.... how long do people expect kobe to play like that?


kobes average last year was 28/5/5 and 30/6/5 in the playoffs

[MiamiThrice]

who cares. lebron being better than kobe right now is like jordan being better than magic in 1991

magic was still the best PG in the game at the time. but its obvious a legendary player like lebron should atleast be better than kobe in his 17th year

i'd say lebron took over the league by default. kobe had it for 10 years. it was time for him to give it up

his 2000-2001 average was 28/6/5 for god sake and 30/7/6 in the playoffs.... how long do people expect kobe to play like that?


kobes average last year was 28/5/5 and 30/6/5 in the playoffs

Nice, so LeBron is superior to Kobe. I like it.

I don't care about what he did in 2001. I'm living in 2012.

[kennethgriffin]

Nice, so LeBron is superior to Kobe. I like it.

I don't care about what he did in 2001. I'm living in 2012.


im just stating that kobes been at a top teir prime level going on 13 years now

most legends in the hall of fame are at that level for 6-7 years tops

the best of the best ( maybe 5 guys all time ) are at that level for 9-10 years

only kareem abdul jabbar, karl malone and kobe bryant were able to do it for 13+ years

[Chrono90]

who cares. lebron being better than kobe right now is like jordan being better than magic in 1991

magic was still the best PG in the game at the time. but its obvious a legendary player like lebron should atleast be better than kobe in his 17th year

i'd say lebron took over the league by default. kobe had it for 10 years. it was time for him to give it up

his 2000-2001 average was 28/6/5 for god sake and 30/7/6 in the playoffs.... how long do people expect kobe to play like that?


kobes average last year was 28/5/5 and 30/6/5 in the playoffs

Lebron might be better now but we can't compare the two right now. Lebron is in the peak of his prime and Kobe is having his last stand before retirement. The two will be compared when both of their careers are said and done.

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron might be better now but we can't compare the two right now. Lebron is in the peak of his prime and Kobe is having his last stand before retirement. The two will be compared when both of their careers are said and done.


well i doubt lebron wins 4 more titles. and thats assuming kobe doesnt win another 1

i think this laker team will win atleast 1 out of the next 2 years

[Chrono90]

well i doubt lebron wins 4 more titles. and thats assuming kobe doesnt win another 1

i think this laker team will win atleast 1 out of the next 2 years

Yea i don't know if he can get 4 but i can see another 2 or maybe 3. I just want to know how would he play after an injury or after he ages when he can't rely primarily on his athleticism.

[G-Funk]

Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 66.7%
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 23.3%

Glad to see these GMs know their stuff.

THE DEBATE IS OVER.

The debate was over when T-mac went injury prone

[kennethgriffin]

Yea i don't know if he can get 4 but i can see another 2 or maybe 3. I just want to know how would he play after an injury or after he ages when he can't rely primarily on his athleticism.


the thunder can only get better.

i say the only time for lebron to win with the heat is within the next 2 years. and they have kobe/howard/nash/pau in their way

then when kobe retires durant and the thunder will be peaking

gonna be tough

i'd say lebron gets at most 1 more ring in his prime. then if lucky 1 more when hes older..


i think he retires with

3 mvps
3 rings
2 finals mvps
12 first team all nba's

top 7 all time


kobe retires with
1 mvp
6 rings
3 finals mvps
12 first team all nba's

top 3 all time

[RRR3]

Stop living vicariously through him

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

the thunder can only get better.

i say the only time for lebron to win with the heat is within the next 2 years. and they have kobe/howard/nash/pau in their way

then when kobe retires durant and the thunder will be peaking

gonna be tough

i'd say lebron gets at most 1 more ring in his prime. then if lucky 1 more when hes older..


IMO the Thunder have a smaller window than the Heat. While Durant and Westbrook MIGHT get better, the team won't make the type of improvements that the Heat been making the past couple years. The Thunder are one injury away from disaster while that is no longer a concern for the Heat.

[DuMa]

Which player is the best leader?


1. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 27.6%
2. Kevin Garnett, Boston -- 20.7%
3. Chauncey Billups, L.A. Clippers -- 10.3%, Tim Duncan, San Antonio -- 10.3%, LeBron James, Miami -- 10.3%, Steve Nash, L.A. Lakers -- 10.3%

Also receiving votes: Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio; Jason Kidd, New York

no best leader votes for kobe.

[Nick Young]

10% Lebron James:roll: :roll: :roll: Lead Team USA to a Bronze when given full leadership duty, on the heat, D-Wade is the leader.

Even guys like Kanye West and Tony Robbins go to Kobe for leadership and advice. Yeezy don't lie.

[TheMarkMadsen]

of course this thread is derailed less than 10 post into it by Lebron Stans :facepalm

Why isn't MiamiThrice banned yet? all he does is subscribe to every thread with the Kobe's name in it so he can go in & try to derail the thread.

[RRR3]

A lot of agendas here.




Why isn't MiamiThrice banned yet? all he does is subscribe to every thread with the Kobe's name in it so he can go in & try to derail the thread.
Can you do that?

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Which player is the best leader?


1. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 27.6%
2. Kevin Garnett, Boston -- 20.7%
3. Chauncey Billups, L.A. Clippers -- 10.3%, Tim Duncan, San Antonio -- 10.3%, LeBron James, Miami -- 10.3%, Steve Nash, L.A. Lakers -- 10.3%

Also receiving votes: Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio; Jason Kidd, New York

no best leader votes for kobe.
I don't get it, does Jeff pay you per post?

[RRR3]

I don't get it, does Jeff pay you per post?
You mean Jeff DOESN'T pay you to post? :eek: Damn bro, you better talk to him.

[Nick Young]

Kobe's leaderships skills:
Lead a roster with Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Chris Mihm starting to 7 games vs the top seeded Phoenix suns

Lead his team to 5 rings (even Shaq called Kobe the #1 option)

Taught Trevor Ariza how to shoot

Caron Butler became a 20/5/5 allstar after training with Kobe

Turned Pau Gasol, who never won a playoff game on his own, into the best offensive big in the league

Lead Team USA to gold

Most game winning shots over the past decade


That is true leadership:bowdown:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Which player is the best leader?


1. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 27.6%
2. Kevin Garnett, Boston -- 20.7%
3. Chauncey Billups, L.A. Clippers -- 10.3%, Tim Duncan, San Antonio -- 10.3%, LeBron James, Miami -- 10.3%, Steve Nash, L.A. Lakers -- 10.3%

Also receiving votes: Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio; Jason Kidd, New York

no best leader votes for kobe.

LOL! :oldlol:

This one REALLY cut deep w/ the stans.

[eliteballer]

LOL! :oldlol:

This one REALLY cut deep w/ the stans.

Take out Duncan and Kobe has more rings than the rest combined:oldlol:

[Vertical-24]

I thought this was already established...

Kobe has been the best SG for years now (barring 2011 and possibly '09). Kobe is the better player and just like Griff said, will more than likely retire the best SG in the NBA. He's just that good.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Take out Duncan and Kobe has more rings than the rest combined:oldlol:
:lol

[MiamiThrice]

LOL! :oldlol:

This one REALLY cut deep w/ the stans.


Take out Duncan and Kobe has more rings than the rest combined:oldlol:

KG: 1
Ginobili: 3
Billups: 1
LeBron: 1
Kidd: 1
Total: 7

Kobe: 5
Total: 5

I don't think so pal.

[red1]

Take out Duncan and Kobe has more rings than the rest combined:oldlol:
Led by shaq to three rings of those rings. :lol jk

[KyrieTheFuture]

the thunder can only get better.

i say the only time for lebron to win with the heat is within the next 2 years. and they have kobe/howard/nash/pau in their way

then when kobe retires durant and the thunder will be peaking

gonna be tough

i'd say lebron gets at most 1 more ring in his prime. then if lucky 1 more when hes older..


i think he retires with

3 mvps
3 rings
2 finals mvps
12 first team all nba's

top 7 all time


kobe retires with
1 mvp
6 rings
3 finals mvps
12 first team all nba's

top 3 all time
Unless Kobe averages 30 ppg on above 45% this season he's not a top 3 player. Get over it. What is so wrong with him being #7?

[TheMarkMadsen]

The standards Kobe get's held to by the haters is astounding.

"Poll says Kobe is best sg"

**goes to search for a poll where Kobe isn't mentioned**

**finds one**

HA! i told you! Kobe sucks

[Dragonyeuw]

To Wade's credit, he's the only one of Kobe's contemporaries that didn't fade into mediocrity/obscurity after all these years( granted he still could, but still). All of Kobe's 'rivals' from years back like Vince, Tmac, Iverson are all journeymen at this point( or in A.I's case, out of the league completely). Kobe's unquestionably the shooting guard of the decade, and like MJ said, he's the only one that's really put in the work to deserve the comparison. All the other guys have shown us flashes of Jordan's greatness, but not on the same level and consistency as Kobe over a decade.

[9erempiree]

To Wade's credit, he's the only one of Kobe's contemporaries that didn't fade into mediocrity/obscurity after all these years( granted he still could, but still). All of Kobe's 'rivals' from years back like Vince, Tmac, Iverson are all journeymen at this point( or in A.I's case, out of the league completely). Kobe's unquestionably the shooting guard of the decade, and like MJ said, he's the only one that's really put in the work to deserve the comparison. All the other guys have shown us flashes of Jordan's greatness, but not on the same level and consistency as Kobe over a decade.

What other SG has shown flashes of MJ? To show flashes of MJ would have to be winning.

Kobe's the only one.

[Legends66NBA7]

To Wade's credit, he's the only one of Kobe's contemporaries that didn't fade into mediocrity/obscurity after all these years( granted he still could, but still). All of Kobe's 'rivals' from years back like Vince, Tmac, Iverson are all journeymen at this point( or in A.I's case, out of the league completely). Kobe's unquestionably the shooting guard of the decade, and like MJ said, he's the only one that's really put in the work to deserve the comparison. All the other guys have shown us flashes of Jordan's greatness, but not on the same level and consistency as Kobe over a decade.

Pretty much. Although, it was also to Wade's advantage that he was drafted to later and the Heat franchise have complemented him more greatly than the likes of Iverson, Carter, and McGrady.

[Heavincent]

That's pretty obvious.

[Dragonyeuw]

What other SG has shown flashes of MJ? To show flashes of MJ would have to be winning.

Kobe's the only one.

Flashes of his game, not of his winning.

I figured that would have been obvious enough. Guess not....

[Kblaze8855]

Kobe over the Wade that just played is perfectly reasonable. Kobe wasnt better than Wade usually is. He was better than Wade was last season though. Which is really all you can judge.

These things are funny at times though. Season before last not a single GM listed Dirk as best 4. Kevin Durant actually got a vote for best 4. Gasol won. Duncan, KG, Durant, Amare, and Bosh got votes as well. Dirk? Zero. Zero votes.

[9erempiree]

easily the best.

2 years in a row the GM thinks so too.

[tmacattack33]

No sh*t. Wade was borderline top 10 this past year. Kobe was right around the 5th best.

I'm actually surprised Wade got 33% of the vote.

[tmacattack33]

I think you got the number for Wade wrong. He probably got 33% of the vote, not 23%. Unless 10% of GM's voted for for someone else, which is highly unlikely. Who would that be? Ginobli?

[Levity]

I think you got the number for Wade wrong. He probably got 33% of the vote, not 23%. Unless 10% of GM's voted for for someone else, which is highly unlikely. Who would that be? Ginobli?


Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 66.7%
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 23.3%
Also receiving votes: Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio; James Harden, Oklahoma City
Last year: Kobe Bryant -- 55.6%

whats interesting is that even though the heat won, Kobe's voting percentage went up 10% more than the previous year, where he was voted by 55% of the GMs as the best SG even after their sweep by dallas in the 2nd round and miami's trip to the finals

[Euroleague]

2012-13 NBA GM Survey:

http://www.nba.com/news/2012-13-gm-survey/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt3a


That survey and the results from last year are an absolute joke. The NBA general managers are a bunch of freaking clowns.

They actually displayed far worse basketball knowledge than the collective views of this forum.

[AlphaWolf24]

2012-13 NBA GM Survey:

http://www.nba.com/news/2012-13-gm-survey/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt3a


That survey and the results from last year are an absolute joke. The NBA general managers are a bunch of freaking clowns.

They actually displayed far worse basketball knowledge than the collective views of this forum.


you spew our filth just becuse the majority thought Kobe was the Best SG in the NBA??

really?



NewsFlash...he is the best SG in the NBA....and has been since 00' - 01'....that's real life.

[Euroleague]

you spew our filth just becuse the majority thought Kobe was the Best SG in the NBA??

really?



NewsFlash...he is the best SG in the NBA....and has been since 00' - 01'....that's real life.


Of course Kobe is the best SG in the NBA. I am talking about the survey as a whole.

Welcome to ignore retard.

[KG215]

the thunder can only get better.

i say the only time for lebron to win with the heat is within the next 2 years. and they have kobe/howard/nash/pau in their way

then when kobe retires durant and the thunder will be peaking

gonna be toughhttp://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/roll.gif

i'd say lebron gets at most 1 more ring in his prime. then if lucky 1 more when hes older..


i think he retires with

3 mvps
3 rings
2 finals mvps
12 first team all nba's

top 7 all time


kobe retires with
1 mvp
6 rings
3 finals mvps
12 first team all nba's

top 3 all time

Yeah...for the 80 millionth time: one more ring does not vault Kobe into the GOAT discussion or top 3 all-time. Doesn't matter how many times you post it, it doesn't make it true.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah...for the 80 millionth time: one more ring does not vault Kobe into the GOAT discussion or top 3 all-time. Doesn't matter how many times you post it, it doesn't make it true.

Considering how Bryant plays to get that 6th ring, backed up with solid numbers in the regular season, playoffs, and finals... he should get Top 5 discussion ?

[LA Lakers]

John Wooden said Kobe was the best hed ever seen play the game. While I disagree, just throwing it out there because its John Wooden. RIP. Anyway, any yall here think its plausible for Kobe Bean to get number 7 before he retires?

[DatAsh]

Considering how Bryant plays to get that 6th ring, backed up with solid numbers in the regular season, playoffs, and finals... he should get Top 5 discussion ?

At some point he has to be in the discussion. He may have never been as good as someone like Bird, but depending on how long he continues to play at a high level, at some point we have to consider the fact that X years of Kobe Bryant is worth more than 13 years of Larry Bird. Longevity does help teams win championships and therefore should matter.

[swag2011]

John Wooden said Kobe was the best hed ever seen play the game. While I disagree, just throwing it out there because its John Wooden. RIP. Anyway, any yall here think its plausible for Kobe Bean to get number 7 before he retires?

I'd love to see that, especially because of the haters reactions lol. That would be so priceless.

However, I'm gunna say 6 is the most he can get. Especially in this 2 or 3 year window. I think he can hold up these next 2 years, but i'm not sure if Nash can. Then i have absolutely NO confidence in Mike Brown ( can't believe CDR got cut smh). So i'll be happy if he can win at least 1 more, but 2 would be amazing.

[swag2011]

At some point he has to be in the discussion. He may have never been as good as someone like Bird, but depending on how long he continues to play at a high level, at some point we have to consider the fact that X years of Kobe Bryant is worth more than 13 years of Larry Bird. Longevity does help teams win championships and therefore should matter.

While i may not agree with your whole statement, i agree with your entire point though. People don't realize his longevity is amazing. To still be a top 5 player in the game for this long is sorta rare. To even play this long is amazing. People like to say he's lucky b/c of who he played with. But they way i see it, if the Lakers organization STILL feels they can build a title contending team around a 34 year old who's going into his 17th season, that should tell you how great he is. What other teams will still try to build around a star that's played for 17 years? And are still CONFIDENT they can win the championship with someone who's played so many minutes?

[LA Lakers]

Yall watch the game last night? He played smart unselfish and efficient. Im gonna say based on what I saw from him last night, and its only a preseason game and not taking into account the entirety of an 82 game season, but he looked spry. He hasnt looked this good since at least 08 or 09. Okay Im ready for backlash.

[Legends66NBA7]

Anyway, any yall here think its plausible for Kobe Bean to get number 7 before he retires?

It's certainly not out of the question.

[Nevaeh]

Yall watch the game last night? He played smart unselfish and efficient. Im gonna say based on what I saw from him last night, and its only a preseason game and not taking into account the entirety of an 82 game season, but he looked spry. He hasnt looked this good since at least 08 or 09. Okay Im ready for backlash.

OK I'll help you out.......












It's the PRE-SEASON.
:rolleyes:


There, my gift to you sir.

:cheers:

[LA Lakers]

Ha, as I said in my post, not taking into account the entirety of an 82 game season... But still... Expecting backlash. Making big claims like best hes looked since 09 based off of one preseason game is worth it. I did it to myself.:facepalm ahhhh Lakers. See what you do to me haha

[KG215]

Considering how Bryant plays to get that 6th ring, backed up with solid numbers in the regular season, playoffs, and finals... he should get Top 5 discussion ?

Yeah, definitely. One more ring and I can get on board with him being in the top 5, but probably at #5. It'd take a pretty spectacular "turn back the clock" type playoff and Finals performance for me to put him ahead of anyone in my top four: Jordan, Russell, Magic, and Kareem.

[Nevaeh]

Yeah, definitely. One more ring and I can get on board with him being in the top 5, but probably at #5. It'd take a pretty spectacular "turn back the clock" type playoff and Finals performance for me to put him ahead of anyone in my top four: Jordan, Russell, Magic, and Kareem.

So you would have Kobe over Wilt and Bird? Just curious.

[NumberSix]

I'm not even a Kobe fan and I've got to say; when was this ever even a debate? :wtf:
You might not be a Kobe fan, but your certainly a raging Heat hater.

[Legends66NBA7]

So you would have Kobe over Wilt and Bird? Just curious.

This is the only players I see with Kobe if he's considered Top 5 (and this is a big IF, taking into account how he played all-year and next year too):

Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Kareem

^With those guys above him, so Kobe being exactly @ #5. Nev, I know you will disagree (don't mind that), but that's what I see the consensus agreeing with.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, definitely. One more ring and I can get on board with him being in the top 5, but probably at #5. It'd take a pretty spectacular "turn back the clock" type playoff and Finals performance for me to put him ahead of anyone in my top four: Jordan, Russell, Magic, and Kareem.

I'd more less have to agree too, but I would switch Magic with Wilt for me.

[Horde of Temujin]

The other 34% are the gm's if the Bobcats, Magic, Pistons, Houston, Golden State, Tor, Sac, Clev., Wizards, and Phx.

[longtime lurker]

The other 34% are the gm's if the Bobcats, Magic, Pistons, Houston, Golden State, Tor, Sac, Clev., Wizards, and Phx.

ROFL I was thinking this today. Which GM's would actually vote against Kobe? You're probably just guessing at the teams, but I wouldn't be surprised if even Pat Riley voted for Kobe.

[Nevaeh]

This is the only players I see with Kobe if he's considered Top 5 (and this is a big IF, taking into account how he played all-year and next year too):

Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Kareem

^With those guys above him, so Kobe being exactly @ #5. Nev, I know you will disagree (don't mind that), but that's what I see the consensus agreeing with.

I respect that Legends, but for me, Kobe's B-ball IQ and impact keeps him out of the top 5 , and Magic's still got him trumped in both departments. Plus Kobe had the luxury of not having the be his team's focal point for 8 years of his career, where as those other guys didn't. They were expected to come in and produce immediately, which they all did.

[KG215]

So you would have Kobe over Wilt and Bird? Just curious.

Well, it'd still be debatable in my opinion but I'd strongly consider it. I do my top 10 with more weight on peak play. I don't completely discount longevity, accolades, etc. but I tend to value peak play when comparing players. Obviously that seems a little hypocritical since I have Russell #2 all-time, but the more I read about him, the more I understand he was very dominant at his best in facets of the game that simply can't be measured by numbers.

Basically, when it comes down to two players I ask myself "which of these two players do I feel would give me a better chance at winning a championship (or championships) if I built a team around them. Obviously I have to consider other things like accolades, stats, etc. when it's close, but that's my basis for ranking players.

Out of my top 10 (Jordan, Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem) I'd choose the other nine over Kobe when answering that question but, at some point, you have to step back and look at Kobe's longevity and how impressive it is that he's been able to play at an elite level for so long. Like BlackVVaves said in another thread, at some point 17-19 years of Kobe Bryant does become more valuable than 13 years of someone like Bird. I think Bird at his peak was better than Kobe at his peak, but I'd get an extra 5+ years of Kobe at an elite level than I would Bird.

Basically, if Kobe won another ring I wouldn't laugh at people who want to argue he's a top 5 player all-time, and would even give some consideration to putting him in my top 5.

[Horde of Temujin]

ROFL I was thinking this today. Which GM's would actually vote against Kobe? You're probably just guessing at the teams, but I wouldn't be surprised if even Pat Riley voted for Kobe.

Ya, i just thought of the worst managed teams in the league. I forgot about Riley though, Im sure he voted for Wade.

[G-train]

I'm not even a Kobe fan and I've got to say; when was this ever even a debate? :wtf:
Anytime in the last few years barring last season when Wade played injured.

[G-train]

Basically, if Kobe won another ring I wouldn't laugh at people who want to argue he's a top 5 player all-time, and would even give some consideration to putting him in my top 5.

How does winning a ring playing on a stacked team make him a better player, given that he is winding down?

Oh, its the NBA I forgot.

[maybeshewill13]

For once I'm agreeing with Kobe stans, Kobe > Wade (judging purely by last season. Guess it's no surprise considering Wade was injured most of the season.

[G-train]

John Wooden said Kobe was the best hed ever seen play the game. While I disagree, just throwing it out there because its John Wooden. RIP. Anyway, any yall here think its plausible for Kobe Bean to get number 7 before he retires?

A reporter said that John Wooden told him that.

[G-train]

you spew our filth just becuse the majority thought Kobe was the Best SG in the NBA??

really?



NewsFlash...he is the best SG in the NBA....and has been since 00' - 01'....that's real life.

In 2009 Wade was better, and arguably in a few other seasons.

[KG215]

How does winning a ring playing on a stacked team make him a better player, given that he is winding down?

Oh, its the NBA I forgot.

It depends on the manner in which he wins the ring. I'm not going to knock LeBron for every championship he wins with the Heat, so I'm sure as hell not going to do it to Kobe.

At the end of the day, if Kobe wins another championship he will have six rings; three as a very good and very integral "second banana", two as "the man", and one to be decided. Factor that in with all his other accomplishments, and his longevity and, at some point, you have to start considering him in that top 5 all-time discussion. It'd just be too much to ignore.

[RRR3]

How does winning a ring playing on a stacked team make him a better player, given that he is winding down?

Oh, its the NBA I forgot.
I agree with this sentiment. Not sure how Kobe moves up at this point, especially since his stans are always saying "If Kobe loses with this team it doesn't matter his legacy is already set." Well, then same applies if he wins

[G-train]

Seems some GM's based it on last season, and didnt predict it for 12/13.
This thread in 12 months will be 90% Wade.
10% being, Kupchak and whatever bozos are running the Magic and Suns.

[G-train]

It depends on the manner in which he wins the ring. I'm not going to knock LeBron for every championship he wins with the Heat, so I'm sure as hell not going to do it to Kobe.

At the end of the day, if Kobe wins another championship he will have six rings; three as a very good and very integral "second banana", two as "the man", and one to be decided. Factor that in with all his other accomplishments, and his longevity and, at some point, you have to start considering him in that top 5 all-time discussion. It'd just be too much to ignore.

I'm not really talking just about Kobe, I'm talking about the principle in general.
Ray Allen doesnt move up my all time list for winning a ring with the Celtics.
In fact I dont have an alltime list, they are dumb.

[Heavincent]

I agree with this sentiment. Not sure how Kobe moves up at this point, especially since his stans are always saying "If Kobe loses with this team it doesn't matter his legacy is already set." Well, then same applies if he wins

Not really. His legacy is already set, but that doesn't mean he can't move up.

He definitely goes up on the list if he wins a ring this year averaging somewhere around 25-5-5. Probably to about 5 or so on my list.

[KOBE143]

66% only.. It should had been 100% easily.. Lol at some GMs voting for Wade.. They really hate Kobe that much.. :lol

[KyrieTheFuture]

Not really. His legacy is already set, but that doesn't mean he can't move up.

He definitely goes up on the list if he wins a ring this year averaging somewhere around 25-5-5. Probably to about 5 or so on my list.

Can he move down if he underachieves?

[Heavincent]

Can he move down if he underachieves?

No. He has nothing left to prove.

[maybeshewill13]

Not really. His legacy is already set, but that doesn't mean he can't move up.

He definitely goes up on the list if he wins a ring this year averaging somewhere around 25-5-5. Probably to about 5 or so on my list.

I don't understand this.. Lebron averages better numbers than that on the Heat and carries them to a championship, yet most Laker fans will tell you he can't move up the GOAT lists because he went to play with Wade/Bosh.. yet Kobe is playing with the best center in the league (top 3-4 player) and a still excellent (top 10) point guard, yet his accomplishments somehow still add to his legacy?

I'm not particularly saying that's you (I don't know your stance on Lebron), but a view many Laker fans seem to share.

[Heavincent]

I don't understand this.. Lebron averages better numbers than that on the Heat and carries them to a championship, yet most Laker fans will tell you he can't move up the GOAT lists because he went to play with Wade/Bosh.. yet Kobe is playing with the best center in the league (top 3-4 player) and a still excellent (top 10) point guard, yet his accomplishments somehow still add to his legacy?

I'm not particularly saying that's you (I don't know your stance on Lebron), but a view many Laker fans seem to share.

I don't share that view about Lebron, so this is irrelevant to me.

[KyrieTheFuture]

No. He has nothing left to prove.

Well that's physically impossible. Say this team fails cause he chucks them out because he won't relinquish the ball that should be a knock against him and lower him. He can't only go up he's either irrelevant to them winning the title and won't move up, or he's liable if its his fault (not saying them losing is his fault it just could be a cause)

[longtime lurker]

Ya, i just thought of the worst managed teams in the league. I forgot about Riley though, Im sure he voted for Wade.

Naw Riley knows the deal. He recognizes greatness when he sees it. I can see the raptors(still sore from 81) kings(bitches) rockets(omg metrics!) Voting for wade for sure. Throw in Denver too well cuz we all know what happened in Denver......

[Dragonyeuw]

Considering how Bryant plays to get that 6th ring, backed up with solid numbers in the regular season, playoffs, and finals... he should get Top 5 discussion ?

I believe so. If Jordan, Wilt, Russell and Kareem are generally viewed as top 4( in whatever order), we're going to have to seriously consider putting Kobe over Magic and Bird. A few years ago this may have been unfathomable and I know that those 'Mount Rushmore' players I mentioned earlier are untouchable in many people's eyes, but when you look at Kobe's talent and body of work, he HAS to be in top 5 discussion if he plays well en-route to another title or two. I'm not one of these people who thinks 'if he gets ring number 6, THEN.....no. If it was about rings, Russell would be the unquestioned GOAT. It's the total package, and Kobe deserves to be in the conversation.

[Bigsmoke]

its a new season.

how do u know Kobe isnt just going to fall off like crazy.

Didn't GMs pick Iverson over Brandon Roy before the 2009 season started?

[Bigsmoke]

I believe so. If Jordan, Wilt, Russell and Kareem are generally viewed as top 4( in whatever order), we're going to have to seriously consider putting Kobe over Magic and Bird. A few years ago this may have been unfathomable and I know that those 'Mount Rushmore' players I mentioned earlier are untouchable in many people's eyes, but when you look at Kobe's talent and body of work, he HAS to be in top 5 discussion if he plays well en-route to another title or two. I'm not one of these people who thinks 'if he gets ring number 6, THEN.....no. If it was about rings, Russell would be the unquestioned GOAT. It's the total package, and Kobe deserves to be in the conversation.

i would lick that ass on your avy

[Dragonyeuw]

i would lick that ass on your avy

Not before me :D

[Bigsmoke]

Not before me :D

i would drown my face between those cheeks until a suffocate

[monkeypox]

Well that's physically impossible. Say this team fails cause he chucks them out because he won't relinquish the ball that should be a knock against him and lower him. He can't only go up he's either irrelevant to them winning the title and won't move up, or he's liable if its his fault (not saying them losing is his fault it just could be a cause)


That's like saying MJ's return with the Wizards could have knocked him down. At this point Kobe's in the clear unless something happens that takes away from what he already did. Like say he got busted for steroids or he got caught paying off officials or something. People have been saying he was over the hill since before the 2nd batch of titles. Here he is gunning for a 3rd. He's already gone longer at a higher level than almost anybody, how are some bad years at the end going to damage his legacy. Aside from giving haters ammo I suppose. But to the people that matter it's not going to move him down. He's pretty much just stacking bonuses at this point.

[NumberSix]

That's like saying MJ's return with the Wizards could have knocked him down. At this point Kobe's in the clear unless something happens that takes away from what he already did. Like say he got busted for steroids or he got caught paying off officials or something. People have been saying he was over the hill since before the 2nd batch of titles. Here he is gunning for a 3rd. He's already gone longer at a higher level than almost anybody, how are some bad years at the end going to damage his legacy. Aside from giving haters ammo I suppose. But to the people that matter it's not going to move him down. He's pretty much just stacking bonuses at this point.
I heard that German knee procedure includes using the souls of murdered babies. Does that count?