Kevin Garnett vs Moses Malone

[oolalaa]

Moses is universally regarded as the 'greater' player.

Why?

http://www.posters.ws/images/390327/moses_malone_photofile.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/nba/teamsites-nbateams/release/timberwolves/sites/timberwolves/files/imagecache/timberwolves_standard/garnett_460_050313.jpg

[Connor B]

Moses is universally regarded as the 'greater' player.

Why?

Rings, advantage of being retired (so naturally 20 year old elitist ******s think the older player is better).

[SHAQisGOAT]

Rings, advantage of being retired (so naturally 20 year old elitist ******s think the older player is better).

They have the same number of rings, each with one :facepalm

Please... Moses was a beast, especially in his prime. Not saying KG wasn't great and he was a better defender and passer though.

Moses is one of the GOAT rebounders, better scorer than KG, plus he had more impact.
Look at what he did in 1981 with that Rockets team, and he was the one who took Philly all the way.
3x MVP over dudes like Kareem, Bird, Julius, Magic, and also Finals MVP.
He also had great longevity.

[iamgine]

Moses: 3x MVP + 1x FMVP

Garnett: 1x MVP

There's your answer

[Whoah10115]

I think KG is as good as Duncan. I rank Duncan ahead tho, as he gets better with each round in the playoffs and delivered when it most counted. His team was better than KG's, so Garnet didn't get as fair a shot to deliver, but the fact is Duncan did and he did deliver.


What I'm trying to say is that KG is right behind Duncan and I have Duncan ahead of Malone. That's only my opinion, but I think KG is better.

[MiamiThrice]

Kevin Garnett: 0 rings as the man, 1 MVP, 0 Finals MVPs
Moses Malone: 1 ring as the man 3 MVP, 1 Finals MVP

Moses was a guy that could lead a team as a number one option. Garnett needs someone else to carry the scoring for his team. Thats why the Timberwolves always sucked **** except for that year Cassell was a top 3 PG in the league.

Moses is one of the best rebounders all-time along with Wilt, Russell, Rodman.

Moses routinely dominated Kareem Abdul Jabbar in their head to head matchups(most notably the 1983 NBA Finals). KG meanwhile routinely got outplayed by Dirk and Duncan in his era.

-KG is the better defensive player, but Moses is worlds away as far as scoring and rebounding mattters. Ultimately Moses is a horse that can carry your team while Garnett is a complimentary star.

[Pointguard]

Its too hard of a mix and match. Malone wasn't in the same hemisphere defensively, KG was an all time defensive great. Malone was asked to play around the basket, KG the entire court. Malone played one of the most simple games of a top player, KG played the one of the most versatile games ever. Offensively KG had an edge because of his versatility, Malone had an edge because he scored more by the basket.

Nobody has Malone ahead of Duncan but when KG played Duncan its an incredible equal matchup careerwise and H2H. Malone had the great accolades, so I can see why people would say he was the great players.

Was he a better player? No. There were no great rebounders during Malone's big time years. When taller centers came into the league (Ewing, Eaton Hakeem) Moses scoring dips dramatically (like more than 6 ppg) and this was in the wide open era, and he should have been at his peak at 27 years of age. And Moses missed a whole lot at point blank range and was a turnover machine. And he couldn't pass. He had little versatility and the speed of today's game would have exaggerated his flaws.

[Haymaker]

Offensively, Garnett falls short. He was never a scoring threat, but more of an all around type of player. Malone was one of the best post players and rebounders ever.

[Pointguard]

Offensively, Garnett falls short. He was never a scoring threat, but more of an all around type of player. Malone was one of the best post players and rebounders ever.

Offensive game and scoring aren't the same thing. Magic was one of the best offensive players in the game and he was when he was scoring 21ppg. Moses Malone wasn't that good offensively. He gave up a lot of possessions and didn't shoot that well, his percentage was like a guards and his post game was totally predicated on hustle. He didn't have a good touch and wasn't a good passer. KG could get six assist a game with non scoring players, while playing the point, and not turnover the ball as much as Moses Malone did. KG like Duncan, was a 22ppg scoring threat in their primes. KG was a top three scorer once - btw, (Duncan, Barkley and Dirk never were in the top three). KG makes the right play like a PG and has lead his team in assist several years and he doesn't turn the ball over.

If you say offense wise you are including mental game, skills, control, team concepts and decision making. Scoring is one facet of offense.

[LA Lakers]

Moses Malone

[Whoah10115]

It's as if KG didn't score over 20 a game for 9 consecutive seasons, dropping to 18.8 his first year in Boston, with two other scorers, on a team that was defensive-minded...and only scored 1 point fewer a game than the captain and scorer Paul Pierce, with a higher per 36 by a point.



And it's like his average teams in Minnesota didn't win 50 games every year until they missed the playoffs in 05, with him scoring that way, at 50%.



Not all scoring is just in terms of the actual PPG. Duncan is a better scorer. But you don't put up those kinds of numbers, while doing EVERYTHING and your team being good while you do it, if you're not a good scorer. That's moronic.


And that's before considering that offense is more than just scoring.

[Odinn]

Is this thread for real?..:facepalm :facepalm

[necya]

Is this thread for real?..:facepalm :facepalm

ISH...:sleeping

[ralph_i_el]

This thread is full of fail.

These two guys are not really comparable. Different era's different styles and different roles

[DatAsh]

Offensive game and scoring aren't the same thing. Magic was one of the best offensive players in the game and he was when he was scoring 21ppg. Moses Malone wasn't that good offensively. He gave up a lot of possessions and didn't shoot that well, his percentage was like a guards and his post game was totally predicated on hustle. He didn't have a good touch and wasn't a good passer. KG could get six assist a game with non scoring players, while playing the point, and not turnover the ball as much as Moses Malone did. KG like Duncan, was a 22ppg scoring threat in their primes. KG was a top three scorer once - btw, (Duncan, Barkley and Dirk never were in the top three). KG makes the right play like a PG and has lead his team in assist several years and he doesn't turn the ball over.

If you say offense wise you are including mental game, skills, control, team concepts and decision making. Scoring is one facet of offense.

I agree with pretty much everything you say, so really I'm just nitpicking, but the bolded is somewhat misleading. Barkley was a noticeably better scorer - and overall offensive player - than Kevin Garnett.

[secund2nun]

KG is the prime example of why you ditch low talent franchises for better run teams. He is so underrated simply because he has only 1 ring because he wasted his prime in Minny.

[IGOTGAME]

Sick of this kg =Duncan flame.

[IGOTGAME]

KG is the prime example of why you ditch low talent franchises for better run teams. He is so underrated simply because he has only 1 ring because he wasted his prime in Minny.
He wasn't gonna win anything on another team either. People really glance over kgs faults now.

[JellyBean]

I love KG but Moses was relentless. He had power. He had a physical side to him that is rarely talked in these days of "power" players. I think to Moses is greater because of his time frame that he played, when Bigs player with their backs to the basket. KG is the evolution of the Bigs, along with that dude from San Antonio....Timmy Duncan or something like that.

[upside24]

Moses was an absolute beast on the boards and I've read somewhere that KAJ didn't like playing Moses because he boxed out and played so physically IIRC.

Moses had a nose for rebounds like Rodman but had a soft touch around the rim and a powerpost game that made him very effective offensively.

Garnett was a great player but people seem to forget just how good Moses was.

[Bigsmoke]

Moses was an absolute beast on the boards and I've read somewhere that KAJ didn't like playing Moses because he boxed out and played so physically IIRC.

Moses had a nose for rebounds like Rodman but had a soft touch around the rim and a powerpost game that made him very effective offensively.

Garnett was a great player but people seem to forget just how good Moses was.
or alve

[Pointguard]

I agree with pretty much everything you say, so really I'm just nitpicking, but the bolded is somewhat misleading. Barkley was a noticeably better scorer - and overall offensive player - than Kevin Garnett.
You are right DatAsh! Barkley was the best PF offensively to me as well as scorer. The poster said KG was never a scoring threat. So I just provided some context.

[Callystarr]

Its too hard of a mix and match. Malone wasn't in the same hemisphere defensively, KG was an all time defensive great. Malone was asked to play around the basket, KG the entire court. Malone played one of the most simple games of a top player, KG played the one of the most versatile games ever. Offensively KG had an edge because of his versatility, Malone had an edge because he scored more by the basket.

Nobody has Malone ahead of Duncan but when KG played Duncan its an incredible equal matchup careerwise and H2H. Malone had the great accolades, so I can see why people would say he was the great players.

Was he a better player? No. There were no great rebounders during Malone's big time years. When taller centers came into the league (Ewing, Eaton Hakeem) Moses scoring dips dramatically (like more than 6 ppg) and this was in the wide open era, and he should have been at his peak at 27 years of age. And Moses missed a whole lot at point blank range and was a turnover machine. And he couldn't pass. He had little versatility and the speed of today's game would have exaggerated his flaws.

Man Moses Malone at age 35, coming off the bench almost averaged a double double...(11pts, 8 boards)....you won't see that very often from a center. I was just following basketball back then...I was a teenager...but old man was a beast then...I can only imagine what he was in his prime.

When he was traded to Washington, he wasn't the only big time scorer. Jeff Malone could seriously put some points in the basket. Moses didn't have to do it alone (Jeff Malone was one of my favorite players back in the day, when he was with the Jazz)

[iamgine]

Its too hard of a mix and match. Malone wasn't in the same hemisphere defensively, KG was an all time defensive great. Malone was asked to play around the basket, KG the entire court. Malone played one of the most simple games of a top player, KG played the one of the most versatile games ever. Offensively KG had an edge because of his versatility, Malone had an edge because he scored more by the basket.

Nobody has Malone ahead of Duncan but when KG played Duncan its an incredible equal matchup careerwise and H2H. Malone had the great accolades, so I can see why people would say he was the great players.

Was he a better player? No. There were no great rebounders during Malone's big time years. When taller centers came into the league (Ewing, Eaton Hakeem) Moses scoring dips dramatically (like more than 6 ppg) and this was in the wide open era, and he should have been at his peak at 27 years of age. And Moses missed a whole lot at point blank range and was a turnover machine. And he couldn't pass. He had little versatility and the speed of today's game would have exaggerated his flaws.
Bolded is wrong. That scoring dip was in 82-83 when he moved to Philly and played with other strong scorers such as Dr J and Andrew Toney. It had nothing to do with Hakeem or Ewing because they're not in the league yet.

[Pointguard]

Bolded is wrong. That scoring dip was in 82-83 when he moved to Philly and played with other strong scorers such as Dr J and Andrew Toney. It had nothing to do with Hakeem or Ewing because they're not in the league yet.
You're wrong.
Tree Rollins, Eaton, Nance began swatting shots like crazy. Lambier and Buck Williams were active and mobile as well.

Were DocJ and Toney making Moses bad shooting percentage go down 20, 40 and 50 points? How does that work?

[iamgine]

You're wrong.
Tree Rollins, Eaton, Nance began swatting shots like crazy. Lambier and Buck Williams were active and mobile as well.

Were DocJ and Toney making Moses bad shooting percentage go down 20, 40 and 50 points? How does that work?
Meh you know I'm right. Next time at least check if Hakeem and Ewing was drafted yet or not.

[Pointguard]

Meh you know I'm right. Next time at least check if Hakeem and Ewing was drafted yet or not.
I said when taller players came into the league it affected his game. You knew that was my main point. Now do you care to argue that? So are you willing to stand by your point?

Cause by the time he faces the daily likes of Cartwright, Nance, Sikma, Ewing, Olajawan, Rollins, Bol, Eaton, Carroll, Parrish, Lister, Donaldson, Cliff Levingston, B Benjamin, Roy Tarpley, Brad Daugherty, Mychal Thompsom, Artist Gilmore and Kareem - Moses Malone is still only 31 years of age (prime for most centers) he's taking 18 shots per game and only hitting at 45% (D Rose got trashed on these boards when he shot 44%!). I know there are no other centers since 1960 taking 18 shots per game and only making 45%. And you can't use the exuse you used above: that he had to share the ball with Toney and Doc at this time either. And he played 8 more years after this.

If your angle is that I picked a random year. Malone averaged, 47% at 29 years of age and 46% at 30 years of age - most definitely prime years for centers. Height bothered him.

Don't get me wrong, he was great and relentless. And sometimes he threw the ball off of the backboard to get his own rebound which lead to an awkard inflation of offensive rebounds and lowered percentage. But if Malone took 18 shots, 14 of them were within six feet of the basket.

[Pointguard]

Another interesting thing is that KG could guard SF's half of the time and still be a better defensive rebounder than Moses Malone and Moses should have had more opportunities. So KG was definitely a better defensive rebounder because he would have had much better position if he exclusively guarded PF or Centers.

So it boils down to Malone being a better offensive rebounder and scorer from point blank range. Scoring in their prime is not more than a 4 ppg difference. Nearly every other facet of the game KG was much better - even defensive rebounding.

Offensively Malone's bad percentage, subpar passing, sloppy handling of the ball (TO's) in contrast to KG being among the best big men ever with the rock in distributing and control, prudent handling, better shooting percentage despite being further from the basket, ability to create for others, and superior skill, versatility, KG's assist added to his scoring, makes them very close in the offensive game department.

[Legends66NBA7]

Got to role with Moses.

Being the better playoff and finals performer does the deal for me between KG and himself.

[Whoah10115]

As a Knick fan, I am going to root for my team. Assuming they can't get there, I will hope for Boston or LA...simply because of the guys getting their rings.


LA can win next year. I hope Kobe has a great year and plays like less of an idiot and puts up points too. And I would hope that Boston beat them in the Finals, with KG winning FMVP (and maybe DPOTY this year, maybe even next).



Then, with another couple all-star caliber years and deep runs in the playoffs, KG can be ranked appropriately.

[iamgine]

I said when taller players came into the league it affected his game. You knew that was my main point. Now do you care to argue that? So are you willing to stand by your point?
Yes because the reason Moses's scoring dipped that year was not what you argued. His scoring dipped because he played in a new team with other great scorers. His %age was still fine that year. Again, check first.

[Pointguard]

Yes because the reason Moses's scoring dipped that year was not what you argued. His scoring dipped because he played in a new team with other great scorers. His %age was still fine that year. Again, check first.
Fine? You call 501% fine for a center fine??? The higher profile point guards (Magic and Cheeks) were shooting over 45% points higher than Malone - that's never supposed to happen for an all star/featured center on offense. Did you check? My point is that Moses had trouble with taller players, that's never changed. His percentage and scoring suffered in the face of that. When he was the featured guy on his team in '87 his scoring wasn't like it was in '81 or '82. So what's your excuse then? True he's 31 but his role was the same. The taller the guys got, you notice a dip in his percentage - the two happened together.

[Pointguard]

Got to role with Moses.

Being the better playoff and finals performer does the deal for me between KG and himself.

Moses only had two really good deep playoff runs, (the Houston run was really impressive) maybe three. KG had the same. And KG's responsibilities were way more and on both sides of the ball. In his prime KG could rebound and score like Malone in the playoffs, heck he did it while playing the point against LA in the ECF. KG was always light years better with passing, turnovers, defense, steals, shooting, shooting %, versatility, team defense, etc. KG would even block more and his defensive rebounding in the playoffs was noticeably better than Malone's as well. In total points KG would be about six or seven points higher per game higher than Malone. In raw points KG is only like only three points below Malone... in the playoffs too.

Malone was a two prong player. And KG was unquestionably a better defensive rebounder, even in an age when they were fewer to go around.

[IGOTGAME]

Moses only had two really good deep playoff runs, (the Houston run was really impressive) maybe three. KG had the same. And KG's responsibilities were way more and on both sides of the ball. In his prime KG could rebound and score like Malone in the playoffs, heck he did it while playing the point against LA in the ECF. KG was always light years better with passing, turnovers, defense, steals, shooting, shooting %, versatility, team defense, etc. KG would even block more and his defensive rebounding in the playoffs was noticeably better than Malone's as well. In total points KG would be about six or seven points higher per game higher than Malone. In raw points KG is only like only three points below Malone... in the playoffs too.

Malone was a two prong player. And KG was unquestionably a better defensive rebounder, even in an age when they were fewer to go around.

this revising of KGs career is quite hilarious to me. Apparantly KG was running point, guarding small forwards half the time and was a dominant scorer on offense. LOLOLOLOL

I wish we could still search the old board. Maybe then you could hear opinions of knowledgeable posters on KG while it was happening.

[iamgine]

Fine? You call 501% fine for a center fine??? The higher profile point guards (Magic and Cheeks) were shooting over 45% points higher than Malone - that's never supposed to happen for an all star/featured center on offense. Did you check? My point is that Moses had trouble with taller players, that's never changed. His percentage and scoring suffered in the face of that. When he was the featured guy on his team in '87 his scoring wasn't like it was in '81 or '82. So what's your excuse then? True he's 31 but his role was the same. The taller the guys got, you notice a dip in his percentage - the two happened together.
If you had read correctly, I didn't dispute all your points. Just the one where I bolded that's clearly untrue.

[Pointguard]

this revising of KGs career is quite hilarious to me. Apparantly KG was running point, guarding small forwards half the time and was a dominant scorer on offense. LOLOLOLOL

What did I revise? Please tell me?
KG didn't take over Cassell's spot in the WCF against your team? How much do you not know? I mean its supposed to be your team?

At one point KG guarded small forwards most of the time. And in his prime he did a whole lot. You really didn't know this? I thought you were older?

Where did I ever say he was a dominant scorer???


I wish we could still search the old board. Maybe then you could hear opinions of knowledgeable posters on KG while it was happening.
You can't be that old. Nothing indicates that at all. I mean at your age now you don't try to get anything right. No offense meant, but you are acting like you are brand new.

When KG won the MVP it was one of the most lopsided MVP's ever - and this was when the league had great talent. Please, tell your knowledgeable friends where the party at.

[IGOTGAME]

What did I revise? Please tell me?
KG didn't take over Cassell's spot in the WCF against your team? How much do you not know? I mean its supposed to be your team?

At one point KG guarded small forwards most of the time. And in his prime he did a whole lot. You really didn't know this? I thought you were older?

Where did I ever say he was a dominant scorer???

You can't be that old. Nothing indicates that at all. I mean at your age now you don't try to get anything right. No offense meant, but you are acting like you are brand new.

When KG won the MVP it was one of the most lopsided MVP's ever - and this was when the league had great talent. Please, tell your knowledgeable friends where the party at.

You said, in his prime he matched up with small forwards a lot.

You said, Kevin Garnet in his prime was a better scorer than Moses Malone

You said at one point he guarded small forwards most of the time. I didn't watch much of rookie KG so I can't comment on this. But, you said in his prime he guarded small forwards a lot. No he didn't. that is just patently false.

As for against LA. He never played pg. Maybe he brought the ball up once or twice but he never played pg. Lets really stop with the exaggerating of KGs career.

But, if you wanna go down memory lane. Lets remember when KG would run from shots in the clutch. Lets remember the missed free throws in the clutch. Lets remember that in the 4th quarter KG often wasn't the guy making plays. Guy would defer to Wally S.

I don't know how old you are. But, you seem to really airbrush KGs career.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Fine? You call 501% fine for a center fine??? The higher profile point guards (Magic and Cheeks) were shooting over 45% points higher than Malone - that's never supposed to happen for an all star/featured center on offense. Did you check? My point is that Moses had trouble with taller players, that's never changed. His percentage and scoring suffered in the face of that. When he was the featured guy on his team in '87 his scoring wasn't like it was in '81 or '82. So what's your excuse then? True he's 31 but his role was the same. The taller the guys got, you notice a dip in his percentage - the two happened together.


Look at Moses playoff run in '83, putting up 26 PPG on almost 54%, going up against the likes of 7'1 Cartwright, 7'2 Kareem, 7' Lister and 6'11 Lanier. Taking Philly to that much desired title. Even in Houston he was even taking a team full of injured players to the Finals, and he had no bussiness being there.

After '83 Moses was affected by ankle injuries, and while still being really good, was never quite the same.

[Odinn]

In his prime KG could rebound and score like Malone in the playoffs

The fact is KG averaged 25+ ppg in a playoff series only twice. And never averaged 30+.
Moses averaged 25+ 7 times and 30+ ppg twice.

- In 1981 playoffs; Moses averaged 31.3 ppg against Kareem and the Lakers, 28.1 against the Spurs, 27.4 against the Kings. He averaged 28.5 ppg against the WC.
"Even in Houston he was even taking a team full of injured players to the Finals, and he had no bussiness being there."
- In 1983 playoffs; He led a team which had Erving and Toney to the title with 26/16.
"Look at Moses playoff run in '83, putting up 26 PPG on almost 54%, going up against the likes of 7'1 Cartwright, 7'2 Kareem, 7' Lister and 6'11 Lanier."

He was capable of averaging 35+ ppg for consecutive months. (1982 February(38.1) & March(35.0)

Yet Prime Kevin Garnett was in the same class with Prime Moses Malone as a scorer?



There is no point of arguing with that guy.:facepalm

[Pointguard]

You said, in his prime he matched up with small forwards a lot.

You said, Kevin Garnet in his prime was a better scorer than Moses Malone

You said at one point he guarded small forwards most of the time. I didn't watch much of rookie KG so I can't comment on this. But, you said in his prime he guarded small forwards a lot. No he didn't. that is just patently false.

As for against LA. He never played pg. Maybe he brought the ball up once or twice but he never played pg. Lets really stop with the exaggerating of KGs career.

But, if you wanna go down memory lane. Lets remember when KG would run from shots in the clutch. Lets remember the missed free throws in the clutch. Lets remember that in the 4th quarter KG often wasn't the guy making plays. Guy would defer to Wally S.

I don't know how old you are. But, you seem to really airbrush KGs career.
Wow, you just are in a big fog. The rift with Wally was that KG had to frequently guard his man. KG was occasionally guarding SF's even in '06. KG, even guarded Penny in like '04 or '03. You are such a deranged hater you aren't even thinking clearly.

Who played the point when Cassell went down??? Who was the set up man on the team? Cassell played more like a shooting guard in the playoffs and KG was more of the set up man when Cassell was playing anyway. KG nearly had Cassell by an assist per game in the playoffs! KG was also the primary set up man the whole year before as well.

KG has won series totally on his back, guy. Every player has had bad clutch moments, surely you know that. KG has totally taken over series, dominated them on both sides and hit big time clutch shots as well. In most of those measure clutch stat things (last five minutes of a close game) KG ranks very high. Why are you acting like you don't know a thing.

Btw, the first two years, KG guarded SF's primarily - not just the rookie campaign. And he switched over on the SF, in spot check, for like his fist seven years easily. You are one of those blind haters. Wow. Get it together. I expect you to at least know things when your team is involved.

I suppose you think that KG isn't one of the most versatile defenders in history either? I can tell you he guarded centers less than he guarded SF's before 2010 for sure. And you are going to say KG never guarded SG's either. Yo, seriously, you need to burst the bubble and come into reality.

[Pointguard]

In his prime KG could rebound and score like Malone in the playoffs

The fact is KG averaged 25+ ppg in a playoff series only twice. And never averaged 30+.
Moses averaged 25+ 7 times and 30+ ppg twice.

- In 1981 playoffs; Moses averaged 31.3 ppg against Kareem and the Lakers, 28.1 against the Spurs, 27.4 against the Kings. He averaged 28.5 ppg against the WC.
"Even in Houston he was even taking a team full of injured players to the Finals, and he had no bussiness being there."
- In 1983 playoffs; He led a team which had Erving and Toney to the title with 26/16.
"Look at Moses playoff run in '83, putting up 26 PPG on almost 54%, going up against the likes of 7'1 Cartwright, 7'2 Kareem, 7' Lister and 6'11 Lanier."

He was capable of averaging 35+ ppg for consecutive months. (1982 February(38.1) & March(35.0)

Yet Prime Kevin Garnett was in the same class with Prime Moses Malone as a scorer?

There is no point of arguing with that guy.:facepalm

Moses had a couple of great runs in the playoffs but he wasn't some great playoff guy carrying a team year in and year out. He had a couple of great years. I never said he wasn't great. But he's a two prong player. And KG was a better defensive rebounder. You are lying if you tell me you saw Moses play and thought he was the better defensive rebounder. Moses was a better offensive rebounder for sure. Mose scored more but wasn't a great scorer. He missed a whole lot, had a bad touch, didn't know how to pass out of double teams, turned the ball over more than KG did when KG was the primary ball handler on his team, and Malone wasn't good defensively. To me that means Malone's scoring would have to compensate for KG being one of the best defenders ever, best passing bigmen ever, one of the most versatile big men ever, one of the best on court communicators ever, having a better touch, better shooting percentage, being more skilled and one of the best front court decision makers. Malone's scoring advantage over KG was only 4 ppg not 20 ppg.

It doesn't compensate for all of KG numerous advantages. Its not close. And in total offense KG has an advantage because of assist/ lack of turnovers/ being much more skilled/ versatility/shooting/ decision making and range. If you reduce down to all of that, all you can really say is that Malone was a better offensive rebounder but it gets hard to add on to that.

[oolalaa]

Another interesting thing is that KG could guard SF's half of the time and still be a better defensive rebounder than Moses Malone and Moses should have had more opportunities. So KG was definitely a better defensive rebounder because he would have had much better position if he exclusively guarded PF or Centers.

So it boils down to Malone being a better offensive rebounder and scorer from point blank range. Scoring in their prime is not more than a 4 ppg difference. Nearly every other facet of the game KG was much better - even defensive rebounding.

Offensively Malone's bad percentage, subpar passing, sloppy handling of the ball (TO's) in contrast to KG being among the best big men ever with the rock in distributing and control, prudent handling, better shooting percentage despite being further from the basket, ability to create for others, and superior skill, versatility, KG's assist added to his scoring, makes them very close in the offensive game department.

Well said. Moses Malone may have been the greatest offensive rebounder in NBA history but that rebounding value/impact dissipated somewhat considering the fact that he was a woeful distributer! The ball never came back out, and when it did he turned it over more times than he got an assist.

[Legends66NBA7]

Moses only had two really good deep playoff runs, (the Houston run was really impressive) maybe three. KG had the same. And KG's responsibilities were way more and on both sides of the ball.

And Moses was better in his runs than KG.

Moses also had a worse team he had to carry than any Garnett led team. And Garnett was more all-around, I get that. Doesn't mean he's impacting some of these games more than Moses.


In his prime KG could rebound and score like Malone in the playoffs, heck he did it while playing the point against LA in the ECF.

You talking about the WCF ?


KG was always light years better with passing, turnovers, defense, steals, shooting, shooting %, versatility, team defense, etc.

Light years ? In the playoffs ?

Turnovers

Moses - 2.6
Garnett - 2.5

Shooting % (FG%, I'm assuming)

Moses - 48.7%
Garnett - 47.9%

Steals

Moses - 0.8
Garnett - 1.3

Off course, KG is better in passing, shooting jumpers, and team defense. That's not the debate. Again, who brings me more impact on the game ? This is basically a physical offensive/defensive minded player vs an all-around player. Just because KG does more, doesn't mean he's impacting the game better.


KG would even block more and his defensive rebounding in the playoffs was noticeably better than Malone's as well. In total points KG would be about six or seven points higher per game higher than Malone. In raw points KG is only like only three points below Malone... in the playoffs too.

Blocking and defensive rebounding ? Are we still talking about the Playoffs ?

Moses - 1.6
Garnett - 1.4

Defensive rebounding

Moses - 13.8
Garnett - 11

Off course, in the regular season it's different. But you can't cherry pick one side of the board either and I have to factor offensive rebounding players more harder to come by than defensive rebounding players.

Not to mention Moses Offensive rebounding rate in the playoffs doubles KG's.


Malone was a two prong player. And KG was unquestionably a better defensive rebounder, even in an age when they were fewer to go around.

Being the better defensive rebounder is good and all, but I would take the better offensive rebounder because they just impact a game more to me. Again, it's a massive difference:

Offensive rebound rate

Moses - 14.7%
Garnett - 7.3%


Now, no reason to think it's not close, but Moses got far in the playoffs with worse teams and got far with great teams. Garnett needed more help to get far in the playoffs.

[Pointguard]

And Moses was better in his runs than KG.

I seen them both and I don't feel that way. Boston locked every team down in '08. They were the most dominant team with ease. KG was as big in that run as Moses ever was. They were a great defensive team with KG as the anchor and obvious leader of it. Nobody penetrated on that team because KG was in the command center being and telling them how to close people out.


Moses also had a worse team he had to carry than any Garnett led team. And Garnett was more all-around, I get that. Doesn't mean he's impacting some of these games more than Moses. Can't really go there. Dunleavy was a solid shooter, Murphy was the games best penetrator, Reid was a solid defender and a steady, good scorer. Impact is a cloudy thing. Reid and Murphy averaged more than Pierce and Ray did.




Light years ? In the playoffs ?

Turnovers

Moses - 2.6
Garnett - 2.5



You did a composite sketch. Moses had a lot more wisdom years in there including the year when Moses was hardly playing so that's a skewed number. Garnett also handled the ball much more than Malone did. KG had a whole different level of responsibilities than Moses did. KG was the primary handler of the ball for a few years in Minny.

I do want to remind people that we are talking about the playoffs in this post. In the regular season Malone turned the ball over like a very sloppy guard.



Shooting % (FG%, I'm assuming)

Moses - 48.7%
Garnett - 47.9%
I am a bit surprised here.

I do wonder what it is when healthy and in deep playoff runs? Still, Moses was often at point-blank range. In general, the defense was a lot weaker in those days, as Reid and Murphy averaged more than Pierce and Allen did; and shot a whole lot better than them in that year, in their careers and in the playoffs. Lastly, the league shot at a higher clip in the 80's and played a much more open game. Big men dominated the game so you have to assume the rules were more favorable as well.

I still think KG's % is much more impressive in the regular season and still more impressive in the playoffs.




Off course, KG is better in passing, shooting jumpers, and team defense. That's not the debate. Again, who brings me more impact on the game ? This is basically a physical offensive/defensive minded player vs an all-around player. Just because KG does more, doesn't mean he's impacting the game better.

You are one of the few that might have seen him play. Impact is an illusion that can't be pursued. Its part of imagination at this point.



Blocking and defensive rebounding ? Are we still talking about the Playoffs ?

Moses - 1.6
Garnett - 1.4

Ha, my bad. Without question KG was a far better defender in every way. KG favored playing defense with his feet than blocking. Mose was a better blocker in the playoffs, at least.


Defensive rebounding
Moses - 13.8
Garnett - 11
What is that, Malone's allstar numbers? Haha. But KG has a full 3 rebound (defensive) lead on him in the playoffs - now that's really big when you consider the era's its massive. Malone's number should be 8 in that sample above.



Off course, in the regular season it's different. But you can't cherry pick one side of the board either and I have to factor offensive rebounding players more harder to come by than defensive rebounding players.

Not to mention Moses Offensive rebounding rate in the playoffs doubles KG's.


Being the better defensive rebounder is good and all, but I would take the better offensive rebounder because they just impact a game more to me. Again, it's a massive difference:

Offensive rebound rate

Moses - 14.7%
Garnett - 7.3%


That's the only claim he really has on KG, his offensive rebounding which is an inflated stat as he had an absurb number of his own rebounds. He's supposed to be better than KG in some regard or there would be no argument here. Moses didn't get far in the playoffs in general. There is one exception where he did it with a team that you say wasn't that good, but it had guys that scored more prolifically than Pierce and Allen and with more ccuracy. So you can't claim he had more impact definitively (more on this at the end of this post). KG took a couple of teams deep on his back. If you seen Moses play, his game was straight up what you saw: he put his head down and bulled toward the basket, frequently getting his own rebound. He didn't have these great ingangibles that had some unknown impact. He had one of the simplest games of the great players. His teams needed his manpower and energy but it wasn't like teammates overachieved because he was there. Like KG his teammates probably got hpyed because of his intensity but that was the extent of it.

Once again. Moses was a two prong player that rocked rebounding and scoring. KG got him in one aspect of rebounding and by an impressive number. And while he wasn't the scorer Malone was, Offensively KG was, at least, his equal... as I said above:
"It doesn't compensate for all of KG numerous advantages. Its not close. And in total offense KG has an advantage because of assist/ lack of turnovers/ being much more skilled/ versatility/shooting/ decision making and range."


Now, no reason to think it's not close, but Moses got far in the playoffs with worse teams and got far with great teams. Garnett needed more help to get far in the playoffs.
KG didn't have a lot of help this past year. Pierce wasn't a good player in the playoffs, Allen wasn't good, and Rondo had good games and an equal amount of bad games. KG took the '11 team and '04 deep into the playoffs on his back, so its proof it wasn't luck. Is it proof he can do it all the time. NO!

When Malone went deep like that with Houston it was a great amount of luck that year. If Magic wasn't doing his '11 Lebron impression they would be eliminated in the first round. Nine times out of ten they don't win that series. So I'm not going to say Moses was this great guy that could do this on the regular based on that. It was the exception and not the rule just like it was with KG in '04. Sometimes things fall in place. Very few players are like Duncan/Russell/Magic: KG and Malone aren't like them. I'm not going to make the exception year the rule or an distinction in their impact. Its not right. KG took his team deep into the playoffs twice on his back, and Malone did it once. Malone's once, means its an exception not the rule. You can't make your argument based on the exception.