James Harden turns down 52 million extension, talks ongoing...

[All Net]

Talks ongoing

He wants max

@WojYahooNBA: Y! Sources: After passing on a roughly $52M extension, James Harden still engaged in talks with Oklahoma City. http://t.co/aHJ6RUyf

[SAKOTXA]

LOL :coleman:
Not this shit again

[Rekindled]

james harden wont be that good now that flopping is outlawed

[Haymaker]

Trade his overrated flopping ass. :facepalm

[Doranku]

:roll: @ this dude trying for a max after the shit he pulled in the finals.

[tmacattack33]

He wants the max?




I wonder what Russell Westbrook has to say about this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75rahCgo-u8

:oldlol:

[flipogb]

OKC is gonna get caught up in team chemistry and fail because of it.
Harden is gonna be overpaid

[Vancouver-Grizz]

its funny when these guys think they deserve max money..

Max money should be someone with All-Star Appearance, Generating Revenue(Jersey, clothing) league wide and a house hold name.

Guys like Eric Gordon and James Harden should recieve a decent contract but not a MAX contract. Any team paying them a max contract should get their head examined because when the Labour agreement ends, those dumbass owner is gonna look for a easy way out by asking for their money back.

[BlackVVaves]

its funny when these guys think they deserve max money..

Max money should be someone with All-Star Appearance, Generating Revenue(Jersey, clothing) league wide and a house hold name.

Guys like Eric Gordon and James Harden should recieve a decent contract but not a MAX contract. Any team paying them a max contract should get their head examined because when the Labour agreement ends, those dumbass owner is gonna look for a easy way out by asking for their money back.

Agreed.

[SilkyJohnson]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/07/joe-johnson-nets-smile.jpg
http://ldjayhawk.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/nba_g_harden_d1_576.jpeg

[stallionaire]

Praying Okc loses harden.

[arifgokcen]

Harden in this economy deserves a max deal.He can get a max deal anywhere. He has the best stats for a SG behind wade and kobe.

[wally_world]

Hopefully they come to an agreement, really wna see the Thunders keep their core together for the years to come.

BUT if all things fail, i wouldnt mind seeing Harden in a Suns uniform :pimp:

[Eric Cartman]

Harden in this economy deserves a max deal.He can get a max deal anywhere. He has the best stats for a SG behind wade and kobe and ellis and joe johnson and ginobili and gordon if healthy.

Fixed.

[FPJ]

Good luck on your new team mr Harden and enjoy them' 20 wins / season.

[IGOTGAME]

Good luck on your new team mr Harden and enjoy them' 20 wins / season.

That is how much money he warrants. Don't get mad at him for or staying Oklahoma or a bargain. He should leave.

[west_tip]

Who are his potential suitors if he can't come to terms with OKC?

Also, I thought the way he performed (or rather didn't) in The Finals was supposed to have deflated his value - apparently not.

[tikay0]

Come to the Bulls!!!!!!!!!

[IGOTGAME]

Who are his potential suitors if he can't come to terms with OKC?

Also, I thought the way he performed (or rather didn't) was supposed to have deflated his value - apparently not.
Guy had one bad series at age 22 against one of the best perimeter defenses of all time.

Doesn't change that he is a top 20 player at 23 and he still hasn't had a chance to really expand his game.

[wally_world]

Who are his potential suitors if he can't come to terms with OKC?

Also, I thought the way he performed (or rather didn't) in The Finals was supposed to have deflated his value - apparently not.

Phoenix for sure, tho it might be hard for their stingy owner to give the max

Dragic
Harden
Beasley
Scola
Gortat
with Dudley, Kieff Morris, Kendall Marshall off the bench :pimp:

[DStebb716]

james harden is getting so badly overrated. he's nowhere near the max. he's a 3rd option with max potential as a 2nd option on a decent contender. max should be reserved for your number one guy, if you happen to have more than you can pay more than one the max but he's not a number one option

[SCdac]

has the dude even proved he's alot better than the likes of Cuttino Mobley and Michael Finley? .... The comparisons to Ginobili, Johnson, Rip Hamilton, seem kind of off, those guys had bigger roles for their teams... Regardless, I'm sure some GM with throw their wallet at him.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's got around 10 years to make as much $ as he can. Everyone else is getting paid, why is it just on him to sacrifice? If you want to blame someone for him possibly leaving blame the owners for the cap.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

Guy had one bad series at age 22 against one of the best perimeter defenses of all time.

Doesn't change that he is a top 20 player at 23 and he still hasn't had a chance to really expand his game.


Maybe a top 20 player but still cannot carry a team. If he can secure a max contract, more power to him but if you honestly believe a franchise should build around this guy.....:facepalm!

Again, only my opinion that a max contract player should be the face of the franchise anything less then that should not be considered for a max contract. I blame the owners on this regardless for handing those contracts out in the first place.

[tikay0]

james harden is getting so badly overrated. he's nowhere near the max. he's a 3rd option with max potential as a 2nd option on a decent contender. max should be reserved for your number one guy, if you happen to have more than you can pay more than one the max but he's not a number one option

Put it this way. Carlos Boozer got a max deal. Amare Stoudemire got a max deal. I'd rather have Rose and Harden at the max than Rose and Boozer. I'll take that risk.

[Killbot]

Do the right thing Harden. Leave.

[All Net]

Food for thought thunder and Westbrook came to his extension agreement 6 day until their deadline...

[All Net]

He's got around 10 years to make as much $ as he can. Everyone else is getting paid, why is it just on him to sacrifice? If you want to blame someone for him possibly leaving blame the owners for the cap.

When he sees Eric Gordon get max why the hell shouldn't he demand it?

[blacknapalm]

could see this coming. while thunder fans said he'd agree to less...just doesn't add up. how often are you potentially offered a max contract? maybe once in a lifetime, if that? when you're young and healthy, it'd be foolish to not follow up on that.

as far as the ginobili comparisons, i think manu is much more crafty but i don't think it's a bad comparison at all. harden is much better than a 3rd option like some of you are saying. he was the pac 10 player of the year as the #1 option for asu. he'll be okay. some of ya'll make it sound like he's ariza :oldlol:

[Dictator]

After averaging like 4ppg in the finals.....:facepalm

[DStebb716]

Put it this way. Carlos Boozer got a max deal. Amare Stoudemire got a max deal. I'd rather have Rose and Harden at the max than Rose and Boozer. I'll take that risk.

i don't disagree. just ridiculous how max deals get thrown around like it's nothing

[IGOTGAME]

Maybe a top 20 player but still cannot carry a team. If he can secure a max contract, more power to him but if you honestly believe a franchise should build around this guy.....:facepalm!

Again, only my opinion that a max contract player should be the face of the franchise anything less then that should not be considered for a max contract. I blame the owners on this regardless for handing those contracts out in the first place.
There 30 franchises so not every team can have someone as good as harden. Plus, looking at who has Max contracts Harden should get one. The guy is really good and this is coming from someone who cant stand his style of play. He projects to be better than Joe Johnson as well due to his passing nd ball handling ability.

Give him his money or let him go. Fans shouldn't be pretending that he isn't a Max guy in this league.

[Whoah10115]

James Harden is already better than Joe Johnson ever has been.



In a an iso-offense (somehow, a well-designed iso-offense), Harden put up 16.8PPG in 31.4MPG, behind Durant and Westbrook (and they ran together a lot), on a team with the fewest assists in the NBA. And he did it without rushing instant offense.

He shot 49.1% from the field and 39% from 3. He's a playmaker and a solid rebounder.


Maybe fewer people should get the max. Whatever. But in this market, he most certainly is worth it. And he just turned 23?

[tikay0]

i don't disagree. just ridiculous how max deals get thrown around like it's nothing

Agree. It's just the nature of the beast.

[lilgodfather1]

He's at worst what the 5th best SG in the NBA? Of course he wants max money... I remember getting negged for saying OKC might not be able to keep both Harden, and Ibaka. Ibaka is going to get paid too.

[wang4three]

He's this generation's version of Manu. I think he's probably worth it.

[Whoah10115]

james harden is getting so badly overrated. he's nowhere near the max. he's a 3rd option with max potential as a 2nd option on a decent contender. max should be reserved for your number one guy, if you happen to have more than you can pay more than one the max but he's not a number one option



This is stupid. He's already better than a 3rd option on a team that went to the Finals. There aren't more than 3 other players (at that position) that you replace Harden with and still get to the Finals.


What he's getting is over-criticized.

[All Net]

He's at worst what the 5th best SG in the NBA? Of course he wants max money... I remember getting negged for saying OKC might not be able to keep both Harden, and Ibaka. Ibaka is going to get paid too.

Ibaka has already got paid...4 years, 40 million.

[Smoke117]

James Harden is already better than Joe Johnson ever has been.



In a an iso-offense (somehow, a well-designed iso-offense), Harden put up 16.8PPG in 31.4MPG, behind Durant and Westbrook (and they ran together a lot), on a team with the fewest assists in the NBA. And he did it without rushing instant offense.

He shot 49.1% from the field and 39% from 3. He's a playmaker and a solid rebounder.


Maybe fewer people should get the max. Whatever. But in this market, he most certainly is worth it. And he just turned 23?

Settle down. Joe Johnson has one of the worst contracts ever, but that is going too far.

[FKAri]

Come to the Bulls!!!!!!!!!

For the Max?

[Joshumitsu]

Max him out. You can always trade Harden for an elite big man if things don't work out in 2 years.

example: Ibaka+Harden+pick for Aldridge+Mathews+filler.

Portland gets rebuilding pieces and OKC fills their needs, defensively and offensively.

[lilgodfather1]

Ibaka has already got paid...4 years, 40 million.
Missed that one apparently. That's actually a lot less than he would have gotten on the free market imo, but good for the Thunder. Maybe they can afford to keep Harden afterall.

[Whoah10115]

Settle down. Joe Johnson has one of the worst contracts ever, but that is going too far.



Why tho? Joe Johnson iso'd his way to a 22PPG average in Atlanta. I've heard people call him clutch, but from I've seen he disappears in the big moment. I've seen Harden step up more and the impact of his game is greater.

[BlackVVaves]

Contract aside, how is Harden already a better player than Joe Johnson has ever been?

[All Net]

Missed that one apparently. That's actually a lot less than he would have gotten on the free market imo, but good for the Thunder. Maybe they can afford to keep Harden afterall.

Well it can rise up to 48 million depending on performance etc...

[Smoke117]

Why tho? Joe Johnson iso'd his way to a 22PPG average in Atlanta. I've heard people call him clutch, but from I've seen he disappears in the big moment. I've seen Harden step up more and the impact of his game is greater.


What exactly did James Harden do in the "big moment" called the NBA Finals?

[tikay0]

For the Max?


Ummmm....yes. We're going to be paying max or near max for any player that would actually improve us. Why not on a young, healthy, SG, that's going to be great with Rose. He can create his own shot, awesome on pick and rolls, and very very good passing skills. Something that is crucial for SG's in coach Thibs system. It's either him or Gordon, and quite honestly, I don't trust Gordon's health going forward.

[IGOTGAME]

What exactly did James Harden do in the "big moment" called the NBA Finals?
Why are you obsessed with series? The guy was 22 and had a heck of a year. I'm not gonna judge him based on one series.

[GOBB]

This is stupid. He's already better than a 3rd option on a team that went to the Finals. There aren't more than 3 other players (at that position) that you replace Harden with and still get to the Finals.


What he's getting is over-criticized.

Andre Iguodala in Harden shoes gets the Thunder to the Finals.

[Whoah10115]

What exactly did James Harden do in the "big moment" called the NBA Finals?



He got there.


Plug in Joe Johnson and they don't.


What, you've never seen him step up in big moments? That 4th quarter against the Mavericks is one. I've seen him take the game over for stretches. I don't see Joe Johnson ever really doing that, in the years that he's been in Atlanta. I see him disappear, especially when he doesn't get to play all by himself.

[All Net]

Why are you obsessed with series? The guy was 22 and had a heck of a year. I'm not gonna judge him based on one series.

Lets not forget how good he was vs LA :( and spurs...

[Whoah10115]

Andre Iguodala in Harden shoes gets the Thunder to the Finals.



I'll give you this (tho maybe not with certainty), even if I think Iguodala is a 3 (and I was talking SG's).


But Iguodala is a playmaker and a playmaker who likes to run. He'd facilitate Durant and Westbrook a lot more. He's a little bit of a point forward.

[Dictator]

He got there.


Plug in Joe Johnson and they don't.



:confusedshrug:

[gasolina]

Just because a bad move was made by others (jj, boozer, amare) doesn't justify doing a bad move yourself.

Just because you can, doesn't give you a green light to do something stupid

[Whoah10115]

Harden would be great next to Rose. S&T for Carlos Boozer :oldlol:



:confusedshrug:



Hey, maybe Joe Johnson plays for OKC and is nothing like we've ever seen him. I'm basing this on what we've seen from Johnson.

[flipogb]

I'll give you this (tho maybe not with certainty), even if I think Iguodala is a 3 (and I was talking SG's).


But Iguodala is a playmaker and a playmaker who likes to run. He'd facilitate Durant and Westbrook a lot more. He's a little bit of a point forward.
hed also be a starter capable of playing the whole game because he is a great defender

[LJJ]

It'll come together.

If I was one of these player's agents, I would never like the risk involved with turning down one of these deals. Get a nice player option or something. No need to turn down 52 million when the very best you can do next season is a couple million more, but the very worst could be a lot less.

[GOBB]

I dont think Harden deserves max. Durant, Westbrook worth max not Harden.

He'll get it most likely from someone if OKC doesnt pony up the money.


hed also be a starter capable of playing the whole game because he is a great defender

Then you get rid of Thabo and sign a cheap 6th man scorer off the bench. Ball game.

[KG215]

Food for thought thunder and Westbrook came to his extension agreement 6 day until their deadline...

Some speculation that this just means they're headed to a 4yr/$56M deal.

[Eric Cartman]

How can you give a BENCH player max money? Max money i expect you to play 37 minutes a game and dominate every other game.

[IGOTGAME]

Some speculation that this just means they're headed to a 4yr/$56M deal.
That's a fair deal. Personally I think its crazy that they voluntarily are spending so much time in OKC.

[flipogb]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/07/joe-johnson-nets-smile.jpg
http://ldjayhawk.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/nba_g_harden_d1_576.jpeg

maybe the Hawks haven't learned, Harden should try to get max from them

[Droid101]

He had a better points-per-shot ratio than Jordan's best this past season. I mean, come on people, he's a good player. At least as good as Eric Gordon, who got the max. It's a done deal. He'll be restricted at the end of the season, sign the max with the Pistons or Suns or someone, and the Thunder will decide if they think it's worth it to continue with him or move on.

[flipogb]

speaking of Harden, anybody else tired of these fake "6th man" players ?

they are usually there there for 2 reasons

1) the player is not a great defender
2) the bench is crap and we need to hide it

[west_tip]

Personally I think its crazy that they voluntarily are spending so much time in OKC.

What do you mean by this statement?

[FireDavidKahn]

:roll: @ this dude trying for a max after the shit he pulled in the finals.
You can't honestly think he wont be given the max. If Gordon got a max then Harden is a guaranteed lock to get one.

[FireDavidKahn]

speaking of Harden, anybody else tired of these fake "6th man" players ?

they are usually there there for 2 reasons

1) the player is not a great defender
2) the bench is crap and we need to hide it
Or it's called having a smart coach who plays his players in position's to maximize their value. With Westbrook and Durant in the starting line up, they don't need any more offense. Sefolosha is a better defender than Harden which is why he starts over him.

[Whoah10115]

hed also be a starter capable of playing the whole game because he is a great defender



That's true. But then Thabo is expendable tho, isn't he?

[Qwyjibo]

If he doesn't get a max deal, his agent failed him. Harden is easily getting multiple max-deal offer sheets if he hits restricted free agency.

[Whoah10115]

1. People are aware that McHale spent at least half of his career as a 6th man?


2. Harden isn't going to be a 6th man forever.


3. Sign and trade time. It's the truth. They need an all-around PG, to be honest.


I'm sorry. Westbrook is a star, but in the long run he has to play the 2.

[FireDavidKahn]

1. People are aware that McHale spent at least half of his career as a 6th man?


2. Harden isn't going to be a 6th man forever.


3. Sign and trade time. It's the truth. They need an all-around PG, to be honest.


I'm sorry. Westbrook is a star, but in the long run he has to play the 2.
Westbrook's game isn't built at all for playing off the ball. He would be so much less effective if he didn't get to be a PG.

[Qwyjibo]

maybe the Hawks haven't learned, Harden should try to get max from them
The problem wasn't the first JJ deal. That turned out great for Atlanta. Harden getting a max now would be similar to that. Atlanta's problem was giving JJ that second max deal.

[IGOTGAME]

What do you mean by this statement?
I mean OKC is not somewhere most young 20s doods want to be.

[FireDavidKahn]

I mean OKC is not somewhere most young 20s doods want to be.
Winning and money cures all.

[Whoah10115]

Westbrook's game isn't built at all for playing off the ball. He would be so much less effective if he didn't get to be a PG.



Combo guard. Isn't that what Wade has been his entire career (actually played a lot of PG his rookie season)?


Wade is a smarter player than Westbrook, but he is a ball-dominant 2guard. Hell, even Jordan was a bit of a combo in how ball-dominant he was.



Westbrook can't play with Kyle Lowry? I don't see that being an issue. A guy like Parker, a guy like Stephen Curry (no out-and-out PG between the two of them).


The main reason Westbrook doesn't want to be an off-guard is because he plays with Durant. He wants the ball in his hands. He doesn't even try and mask what he really is.

[IGOTGAME]

Winning and money cures all.
Nope. You are never gonna get your 20s back. Why spend so much of it in OkC? The will be there at other places.

[Nick Young]

max contracts for ever 20ppg player:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[FireDavidKahn]

Combo guard. Isn't that what Wade has been his entire career (actually played a lot of PG his rookie season)?


Wade is a smarter player than Westbrook, but he is a ball-dominant 2guard. Hell, even Jordan was a bit of a combo in how ball-dominant he was.



Westbrook can't play with Kyle Lowry? I don't see that being an issue. A guy like Parker, a guy like Stephen Curry (no out-and-out PG between the two of them).


The main reason Westbrook doesn't want to be an off-guard is because he plays with Durant. He wants the ball in his hands. He doesn't even try and mask what he really is.
The reason I can't see him playing off guard very well is because he isn't that great of a shooter and probably wouldn't be very good in catch and shoot situations. Wherever you play Westbrook, he needs the ball in his hands to be as dominant as he is.

[PyrrhusX]

Trade his ass.
Id rather shore out money for a Low post threat or anyone decent to take our centre spot.

Trade him Presti.

[blablabla]

sign and trade his ass

[LA Lakers]

:roll: @ this dude trying for a max after the shit he pulled in the finals.
Haha. Brotha really choked in The Finals but he is young. Maybe it was age? Harden is a starter on 90 percent of the teams in this league in my humble opinion. Thunder need to do what it takes to keep him. Maybe?

[SCdac]

max contracts for ever 20ppg player:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

and he's never averaged more than 17 ppg! :roll:

James Harden in three NBA seasons has started 7 games...

Can't wait to see him go from that to carrying a team.

[PyrrhusX]

Haha. Brotha really choked in The Finals but he is young. Maybe it was age? Harden is a starter on 90 percent of the teams in this league in my humble opinion. Thunder need to do what it takes to keep him. Maybe?

But for max, your generally first option. Right now he is a 3rd option player who I believe would do less with the oppositions best defence on him. And so far in the pre-season, he has been shooting very poorly.

We might need him, but put into perspective what we can get with the money. If we go down the road of offering Harden a max deal, why cant we entice someone like Al Jefferson (who goes UFA) on a max deal (or close to max) on the premise he would be backing up two all-stars/top 10 players on a team of contenders for years to come? We need a low post threat imo.

I say sign-and-trade his ass out now.

[Qwyjibo]

and he's never averaged more than 17 ppg! :roll:

James Harden in three NBA seasons has started 7 games...

Can't wait to see him go from that to carrying a team.
I see mindlessly posting stats without putting them into any context is still a big thing here.

:facepalm

[Whoah10115]

The reason I can't see him playing off guard very well is because he isn't that great of a shooter and probably wouldn't be very good in catch and shoot situations. Wherever you play Westbrook, he needs the ball in his hands to be as dominant as he is.



I understand. I was down on his jumpshot too, but it improved drastically throughout the season. Wade developed into a very good mid-range shooter, but he liked to create his own shot. He was never much of a catch and shoot player. I think that's a big part of the reason why his mid-range has lost so much in these two years with Lebron.


So if the Thunder traded Westbrook, you think he'd be a PG on whatever team he goes to? I don't think he would.

[flipogb]

Or it's called having a smart coach who plays his players in position's to maximize their value. With Westbrook and Durant in the starting line up, they don't need any more offense. Sefolosha is a better defender than Harden which is why he starts over him.

yes it is smart coaching, but he still isn't a real 6th man.

Lakers Lamar Odom is one I would consider. he was PF exclusively and he was not as good as Pau on either end of the floor. yet he was clearly the 3rd or 4th best player so there was nowhere to go but be a 6th man and get the most bench minutes

[LA Lakers]

But for max, your generally first option. Right now he is a 3rd option player who I believe would do less with the oppositions best defence on him. And so far in the pre-season, he has been shooting very poorly.

We might need him, but put into perspective what we can get with the money. If we go down the road of offering Harden a max deal, why cant we entice someone like Al Jefferson (who goes UFA) on a max deal (or close to max) on the premise he would be backing up two all-stars/top 10 players on a team of contenders for years to come? We need a low post threat imo.

I say sign-and-trade his ass out now.
Every contender team seems to have to have like 3 reliable/good perimeter shooters now, you know? Dallas made that clear couple years back. You need more than just Durant shooting from out there. Even as good as he is. You guys lose Harden this season, I dont think you go to The Finals. Id need to look at Jeffersons contract plus I dont watch a lot of Jazz games to be honest, so Im not qualified to speak on his game. But you say get rid of Harden?

[Whoah10115]

I see mindlessly posting stats without putting them into any context is still a big thing here.

:facepalm



I see what you did there...and I like it.



yes it is smart coaching, but that doesn't change the fact that he isn't a true 6th man



Yea, but he was in year 3 and they already have Westbrook in the lineup. He won't be there forever.



But some players (not Manu or even McHale) are ideal as 6th men. Terry, Crawford, Williams, Thornton (gonna get a 6MOTY or two in his career). Those guys are made to win that award.

[SCdac]

I see mindlessly posting stats without putting them into any context is still a big thing here.

:facepalm

Oh please, extrapolating him onto some other team, in which he's putting up 20-22 ppg, is just as mindless and naive. We're talking about a player who, in the NBA, has never faced the kind of pressure of being a #1 option, and he hasn't shown that he's prepared for it outside of being confident and ready to snatch a shit load of $. I don't see anything in his game that screams franchise player, I'm sorry. He's in the class of Michael Finley and Cuttino Mobley right now IMO. Throwing guys like that max money is a mistake.

[Whoah10115]

Oh please, extrapolating him onto some other team, in which he's putting up 20-22 ppg, is just as mindless and naive. We're talking about a player who, in the NBA, has never faced the kind of pressure of being a #1 option, and he hasn't shown that he's prepared for it outside of being confident and ready to snatch a shit load of $. I don't see anything in his game that screams franchise player, I'm sorry. He's in the class of Michael Finley and Cuttino Mobley right now IMO. Throwing guys like that max money is a mistake.



Cuttino Mobley...that's remarkably stupid.



Finley should have been All-NBA one year. He was a great player, so I can respect that.


I think Harden had a better 3rd year than Westbrook had. I don't think he jumps his 4th season the way Westbrook did, but it's there. A lot of it is on potential. You say McGrady get a massive deal leaving Toronto, and he didn't have anywhere near the impact or important there than Harden has now.


Cuttino Mobley? How are you gonna put him and Finley in the same sentence?

[PyrrhusX]

Every contender team seems to have to have like 3 reliable/good perimeter shooters now, you know? Dallas made that clear couple years back. You need more than just Durant shooting from out there. Even as good as he is. You guys lose Harden this season, I dont think you go to The Finals. Id need to look at Jeffersons contract plus I dont watch a lot of Jazz games to be honest, so Im not qualified to speak on his game. But you say get rid of Harden?

What hurt us the most last year, rather than 3pt shooting, was the inability to stop/slow down Lebron and a lack of an inside game for easy buckets. I would rather have that and hope Reggie/PJ3 step up. We also have Maynor coming back, who I would rather pay cheaply for to take up the backup point role.

I believe we should get rid of Harden on the premise that a max contract is an over-spend for a payer of his calibre. I would love to ship Harden to the Jazz for Jefferson, the Jazz have a logjam at the forwards position and Harden could start.

[SCdac]

Cuttino Mobley? How are you gonna put him and Finley in the same sentence?

Just saying, Harden is not much better than them, that's the point. Cat was perennial starter who averaged 38-40 minutes in his prime and also shot the three ball well. He lead the Rockets in scoring, a losing team, and I doubt Harden does much better. Wasn't an AS but Cat was a solid player... The fact that your scoffing at the mention of Cuttino speaks volumes about how overrated Harden has become IMO.

[Whoah10115]

What hurt us the most last year, rather than 3pt shooting, was the inability to stop/slow down Lebron and a lack of an inside game for easy buckets. I would rather have that and hope Reggie/PJ3 step up. We also have Maynor coming back, who I would rather pay cheaply for to take up the backup point role.

I believe we should get rid of Harden on the premise that a max contract is an over-spend for a payer of his calibre. I would love to ship Harden to the Jazz for Jefferson, the Jazz have a logjam at the forwards position and Harden could start.



I don't think Jefferson is what you need and I'll tell you why.


I don't think he's very good at running the floor. And I think he wants more touches than he'll get...and if he does get them, OKC will just be spreading out the 1v1 basketball. He's become a willing and decent passer, but not necessarily fit for the system.


Defensively tho...in this situation, the assumption is Perkins is also traded or benched or amnestied. Unless OKC has a shot at a big-time player and have to include Ibaka. Jefferson is not a C. He can play it obviously, but he's only played C and shitty teams and now on Utah, just making into the playoffs. Playing C on a championship team is more of a stretch. And while Ibaka might end up being a C (or hybrid)-and even with his improvement- he's probably not a good fit next to Jefferson. And Jefferson and Perkins sounds pretty bad for the offense.



If you trade Harden for a post-up player, you might need a shooter on the way back. Thabo is alright. Like I'm thinking of Orlando with Afflalo and you guys taking a chance on someone like Nicholson. With that said, Harden should command more value. But that could be a very good trade.

[PyrrhusX]

I don't think Jefferson is what you need and I'll tell you why.


I don't think he's very good at running the floor. And I think he wants more touches than he'll get...and if he does get them, OKC will just be spreading out the 1v1 basketball. He's become a willing and decent passer, but not necessarily fit for the system.


Defensively tho...in this situation, the assumption is Perkins is also traded or benched or amnestied. Unless OKC has a shot at a big-time player and have to include Ibaka. Jefferson is not a C. He can play it obviously, but he's only played C and shitty teams and now on Utah, just making into the playoffs. Playing C on a championship team is more of a stretch. And while Ibaka might end up being a C (or hybrid)-and even with his improvement- he's probably not a good fit next to Jefferson. And Jefferson and Perkins sounds pretty bad for the offense.



If you trade Harden for a post-up player, you might need a shooter on the way back. Thabo is alright. Like I'm thinking of Orlando with Afflalo and you guys taking a chance on someone like Nicholson. With that said, Harden should command more value. But that could be a very good trade.

Ahh, interesting, thanks for this.
I dont watch Jazz games so I was basing it mainly on stats (yea I know its bad). I also think Thunder will amnesty Perks if they offer a max or a contract anywhere near max to another player.

[Whoah10115]

Just saying, Harden is not much better than them, that's the point. Cat was perennial starter who averaged 38-40 minutes in his prime and also shot the three ball well. He lead the Rockets in scoring, a losing team, and I doubt Harden does much better. Wasn't an AS but Cat was a solid player... The fact that your scoffing at the mention of Cuttino speaks volumes about how overrated Harden has become IMO.



The fact that you're scoffing at my scoff speaks volumes of how underrated Harden is becoming. Certainly under-appreciated.


I was actually a bit of a fan of Cuttino Mobley. I thought he was underrated while Francis most definitely was overrated. I think Mobley could have been a good starter on good teams. But Harden is much better at 22 and his ceiling is far above Mobley's.

[SCdac]

I was actually a bit of a fan of Cuttino Mobley. I thought he was underrated while Francis most definitely was overrated. I think Mobley could have been a good starter on good teams. But Harden is much better at 22 and his ceiling is far above Mobley's.

Eh, who knows... "far above?"... I don't see it, personally.

It's easy to say that it's far above Cat's when a player is playing in the shadow of arguably the best scoring SF and PG in the game. How far would James Harden take a team with Francis, Kenny Thomas, Moochie Norris, Kelvin Cato, etc? That is the kind of question that needs to be asked.

I think Harden has an efficient game and great court vision, but he doesn't seem like a franchise player worth building around IMO. His efficiency from the field will probably drop when he's the sole focus of a defense, and creating for others will be tougher when they're not as talented as his current cast.

Building around players like Harden, Johnson, Finley, Mobley, Jalen Rose, etc, doesn't seem fruitful.

[tikay0]

Harden has all the tools to be an all star. He's dynamic offensively, and can improve defensively. He just needs the proper coaching. Brooks isn't the guy to bring out his full potential to me.

I think with a coach like Thibodeau, he can easily be a perennial all star. Especially since the East only has Wade.

[Umad101]

What make a contract a max contract?

[jbot]

pssshh. let him walk.

[fsvr54]

maybe the Hawks haven't learned, Harden should try to get max from them

Danny ferry is in charge now

[RRR3]

and he's never averaged more than 17 ppg! :roll:

James Harden in three NBA seasons has started 7 games...

Can't wait to see him go from that to carrying a team.
What a ridiculous comment. James Harden could easily score 20 PPG if he was on a bad team, but it wouldn't make him any better of a player, and yet a lot of people would act like it did. It doesn't matter if he starts the game, he finishes the game and plays starter minutes. Pretty sure the guy in your avatar has never averaged 20 PPG either, and people on ISH act like he's an all-time great

[SCdac]

What a ridiculous comment. James Harden could easily score 20 PPG if he was on a bad team, but it wouldn't make him any better of a player, and yet a lot of people would act like it did. It doesn't matter if he starts the game, he finishes the game and plays starter minutes. Pretty sure the guy in your avatar has never averaged 20 PPG either, and people on ISH act like he's an all-time great

I think it does matter. On a different team, as a max-type player, he's not going to the third punch in a 3-punch combo, going up against the opposing teams bench initially. He's going to be the player that teams study, collapse on, and try and shut down.

You can count the times Harden has played over 40 minutes on like 2 hands. And as mentioned, he's only started 7 games in his career.... Point being, I don't think he's ready, and it would probably be a rude awakening for him and his fans.

And I'm sure people understand why Ginobili is an all-time great, and he's better than Harden, but you don't see me sitting here saying he'd be a great franchise player in the mold of Wade, Kobe, etc.

At least Ginobili by his third season was an AS, averaging 20+ ppg in the playoffs as a legitimate 2nd option. Harden hasn't proven himself that much, albeit they were different ages in their third seasons. I haven't written of Harden as a great player, but a franchise/max guy? Ehhhh

[RRR3]

(Using your logic here, SC) If Ginobili's so great why can't he beat out Danny Green for the starting SG spot?


Now, I am fully aware Ginobili>>>Green, but this is true with Harden and Sefolosha too. They need scoring off the bench in OKC, and Harden is great at that, while also being a solid playmaker and fair rebounder for a guard. His defense is pretty bad, I'll give you that. Nonetheless, he's a legit player IMO, at least that's what I see when I watched him most of the time. Nowhere near a superstar of course, but definitely an All-Star level player. There are definitely a fair amount of All-Stars from last season that he is better than (i.e. Iguodala, Deng, Hibbert, etc.). He averaged 19.3 PPG per 36 minutes last season, right around Manu's career average per 36 for what it's worth. Remember, he's the 3rd option, too.

[SCdac]

(Using your logic here, SC) If Ginobili's so great why can't he beat out Danny Green for the starting SG spot?

Ginobili has started over 500 games, and by his third season he was starting every game and made the AS game alongside Ray Allen and Kobe in the West.... Harden, for whatever reason (coaching, team make up, etc), hasn't become a starter yet, and for better or worse I think it has an impact. On the positive end, he has the ball in his hands more and it helps the team win games, but on the negative end he's not going up against starting units and not playing the minutes somebody his age should/could be playing. I applaud him for embracing the role, but perhaps he's ready for a bigger one. He is a lottery pick after all.

[Keith]

Harden has all the tools to be an all star. He's dynamic offensively, and can improve defensively. He just needs the proper coaching. Brooks isn't the guy to bring out his full potential to me.

I think with a coach like Thibodeau, he can easily be a perennial all star. Especially since the East only has Wade.

They shouldn't give him max until he's an All Star. He doesn't even start, Finals exposed him.

[LA Lakers]

I cant believe people are saying let Harden walk.

[flipogb]

I cant believe people are saying let Harden walk.
unless he stays for less, hes getting the max
(doesnt matter if we think its dumb)

I could see them letting him walk because they can't him now due to their hopes of winning it all this year, and when hes a free agent , they will have no leverage for a trade. sure they could work out a sign and trade, but they wont get anything useful (think Bosh/Lebron)

[Meticode]

How many years on that $52 million? Four or five?

[Clippersfan86]

How many years on that $52 million? Four or five?

Four...

[Heavincent]

:roll:

[flipogb]

damn they are brave. I thought they wouldn't trade him due to team chemistry with Durant and Westbrook and popularity with fans and the media. I mean they will be criticized but this was the right move . Im very surprised

[Noof]

:lol Harden got raped

[krazymofo]

wtf i just saw twitter, he going to the rockets? WTF


http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2012/10/27/james-harden-traded-to-houston/

[Eric Cartman]

wtf i just saw twitter, he going to the rockets? WTF


http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2012/10/27/james-harden-traded-to-houston/

Huge thread about that on the first page ...

[O_City_Thunder]

Trade his overrated flopping ass. :facepalm
:coleman:

[jbryan1984]

Could really see the Cavs offering Harden the max next year.

[rhythmic]

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Hangover_02b44c_476712.gif

SO LONG BITCH'!

[Eric Cartman]

Could really see the Cavs offering Harden the max next year.

Didn't you guys got your sg of the future in this year's draft?

[dbugz]

Should have traded Harden's a$$ to the bobcats :oldlol: :oldlol: