Should OKC Have Traded Westbrook And Kept Harden?

[WillyJakk]

http://m1.ourstage.com/tb/PDBLVZOPCWEZ-large.jpg
"The wrong kid died!"

I'm a put this out there and say what you will but after James Harden's performance last night, he showed an ability as a #1 option to make the right basketball play, whether it was pass, score, or defend and has shown to have a very high bball IQ and I'm starting to think....

The OKC Thunder woulda been better off NOT AMNESTYING Perkins to keep James Harden (and paying the luxury tax), they woulda been better off TRADING PG Russell Westbrook, packaging him WITH Perkins and perhaps getting a post scoring big and replacement PG who'd fit in w/ a Durant/ Harden combo imho simply due to Harden's bball IQ & game seems more beneficial to having a championship team than Westbrook's.

Basically I'm saying I really think Westbrook was more replaceable than Harden.

Anyway, I know it's too late cause what's done is done but they say hindsight is 20/20 and in this case maybe 15/10 but who would you have chosen to build around in OKC?

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/2426919/uspw_6706258.0_standard_352.0.jpg

or

http://thesportsquotient.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/russell_westbrook_2501.jpeg

[Westbrook0]

You are probably going to get blasted by a lot of people, but I think this is one of the only legitimate questions surrounding the Harden trade.

Everyone always said, "They can't have all 4 (KD, Russ, Harden and Serge)." So apparently that meant Harden had to go.

But no one thought about trading Russ.

Keep in mind OKC has Eric Maynor, who could be the best backup point guard in the league. Two years ago, Maynor played large stretches of playoff games while Russ was on the bench because he could control the game better and was more of a pure point guard.

[niko]

Westbrook is a better player than Harden. Westrbook also didn't disappear in the playoffs like Harden did from time to time. That's not the question. The question is why OKC became cheap asses with a title within reach.

[pegasus]

I always said that they should have offered WB and Perkins for Howard, and let Harden be the play maker. Maybe they did offer something similar, but Howard didn't want to go to OKC, who knows... But that definitely doesn't mean Harden is better than WB.

[Westbrook0]

Westbrook is a better player than Harden. Westrbook also didn't disappear in the playoffs like Harden did from time to time. That's not the question. The question is why OKC became cheap asses with a title within reach.

Not every market makes the money Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Miami, etc. do.

If OKC payed Harden max, in about four years they would be paying an extra $50 million or so in fines per year.

[cavsfanatic]

hmm let's see... Westbrook showed up in The finals so HELL NO!! dude dropped 43 in game 4 in a must win game. you don't trade him over somebody who helped you lose that game.

[cavsfanatic]

Westbrook is a better player than Harden. Westrbook also didn't disappear in the playoffs like Harden did from time to time. That's not the question. The question is why OKC became cheap asses with a title within reach.
it's a lil thing called luxury tax

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Kept Harden and traded Westbrook for Nash. Could you imagine that Lakers team. Westbrook and Kobe :roll:

[Godzuki]

i think Westbrook could be the best player in the NBA this year, and maybe out do lebron if he takes advantage of the extra opportunities and slack with Harden gone and his shot is on. he has the talent, and he's unstoppable more or less but one of his biggest problems has been IQ which seems to have gotten a lil better each year. Westbrook is tenacious and affects games that way like few other players.

i think Harden is a bit overrated right now, not saying he isn't really good, but he had a lot to prove and was motivated. i don't think he's going to pull this all season especially when his shot isn't falling.

[East_Stone_Ya]

yup they should have traded their starter in order to get more playing time for their bench player :rolleyes:

[Rubio2Gasol]

What are you gettIng For WB.

Perhaps for Rondo.

[Sarcastic]

it's a lil thing called luxury tax

In order to make an omelet, you need to break some eggs.

[Eric Cartman]

Disrespecting Westbrook so much in this thread, especially seeing how much he stepped up in the playoffs last year.

[I<3NBA]

it wasn't Westbrook that disappeared in the playoffs tho...

Westbrook was the only guy keeping them in, every game of the Finals.

[niko]

it's a lil thing called luxury tax
They had profits the last few years, they could have taken losses a few years to get their titles. It's not pathmark. It's an NBA team. They wouldn't have made up that money with HArden? They couldn't try?

**** them, they deserve what they get. I hope he scores 40-10 every night and they never win a title. Small market fans want their teams to jettison players rather than operate at a loss for a few years.

OKC had profits the last few years of $25 - $30 million a year. What you are basically arguing is DONT WIN A TITLE - that's ok because you don't want the owner to reinvest his profit. So you rather then owner gets the bigger boat than OKC wins a title.

[ChuckOakley]

it's a lil thing called luxury tax
But they were willing to offer him $54m, what was the extra $1-2m per year going to do to them?

Meanwhile, winning is what brings in revenue, if OKC compromised their ability to win by trading Harden, then they also compromised revenue.

[niko]

But they were willing to offer him $54m, what was the extra $1-2m per year going to do to them?

Meanwhile, winning is what brings in revenue, if OKC compromised their ability to win by trading Harden, then they also compromised revenue.

:applause:

[RaininTwos]

The f*ck is wrong with people? Westbrook is a top 5 player, why the f*ck would they get rid of him for harden? SMH

[lpublic_enemyl]

harden is a great player but he was playing against the pistons who didnt play good defense, i'd still take westbrook

[stickfigure87]

yup they should have traded their starter in order to get more playing time for their bench player :rolleyes:

i've never understood this argument. just because harden was their sixth man doesn't mean he wasn't there sixth best player.

ginobli isn't the sixth best player on the spurs, nor was odom when he was on the lakers.

if you want to say westbrook is better that's fine, and i even agree with you that he's a better player. doesn't necessarily mean he's the better fit or that your sarcasm is entirely appropriate.

[FKAri]

Kept Harden and traded Westbrook for Nash. Could you imagine that Lakers team. Westbrook and Kobe :roll:

Imagine Westbrook trying to "run" the Princeton offense and "facilitating" Kobe, Gasol and Howard. :lol

[Westbrook0]

They had profits the last few years, they could have taken losses a few years to get their titles. It's not pathmark. It's an NBA team. They wouldn't have made up that money with HArden? They couldn't try?

**** them, they deserve what they get. I hope he scores 40-10 every night and they never win a title. Small market fans want their teams to jettison players rather than operate at a loss for a few years.

OKC had profits the last few years of $25 - $30 million a year. What you are basically arguing is DONT WIN A TITLE - that's ok because you don't want the owner to reinvest his profit. So you rather then owner gets the bigger boat than OKC wins a title.


LOL WTF :biggums:

Let the butthurt flow through you.

[guy]

What are you gettIng For WB.

Perhaps for Rondo.

I really don't understand how people think Westbrook is better then Rondo. I would've made that trade without much thought if that trade was available, which reportedly Boston offered last year. Durant probably averages like 34 and Harden probably averages like 25 playing with Rondo.

[chips93]

I'm a put this out there and say what you will but after James Harden's performance last night, he showed an ability as a #1 option to make the right basketball play, whether it was pass, score, or defend and has shown to have a very high bball IQ and I'm starting to think....



he showed this all of last year too

[Whoah10115]

Russell Westbrook has more market value than James Harden.



Russell Westbrook is not a PG.



You could have acquired more for Westbrook, so it was worth looking into. With that said, it seems like Westbrook may have been more locked into being a Thunder player than Harden was. That's worth considering.



That Westbrook is a better player right now is irrelevant and people shouldn't bring that up. Harden is a year younger and a year behind. He could very well get there, and he's already a great player. Plus, if you trade Westbrook, it's because you choose to and not because you have to.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Imagine Westbrook trying to "run" the Princeton offense and "facilitating" Kobe, Gasol and Howard. :lol
I think when they lost by 10 points and Westbrook just stood there the whole game...I think there would be some serious slap fights in the locker room. :durantunimpressed:

[niko]

LOL WTF :biggums:

Let the butthurt flow through you.

Im not an OKC fan. I just don't get why people are so concerned the owners keep all their money and not the players.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I really don't understand how people think Westbrook is better then Rondo. I would've made that trade without much thought if that trade was available, which reportedly Boston offered last year. Durant probably averages like 34 and Harden probably averages like 25 playing with Rondo.

I can see why people think he's a bigger asset than Rondo. He has more superstar talent....the way his form is, the lift he gets on his jumper and a range of assorted things from body control to athleticism and obvious work ethic.

i could see him being the best scorer in the game one day.

But with Rondo you have a better chance to win now and a lower salary that allows you to keep Harden and Ibaka.

[iamgine]

Harden didn't mesh very well with Durant.

[ThunderKat]

Harden is a great player... no doubt. OKC wanted to hang onto him, but they couldn't justify offering him a max deal with the luxury taxes the way they are. I think their original plan was to amnesty Perkins this off season, but then the Howard trade happened and they had to have Perkins. OKC made a run at Harden, but he wanted max money so that is that. I don't blame him for wanting to get the most money he could get. He might have been able to make some of it up with endorsements since OKC is an elite team, but that's no guarantee.

As far as trading Westbrook.. no thanks. He can chuck it at times, but he has carried this team several times when Durant's shots weren't falling. As much as I like Harden the order to me is Durant, Westbrook and then Harden.

[MichaelCheazley]

hmm let's see... Westbrook showed up in The finals so HELL NO!! dude dropped 43 in game 4 in a must win game. you don't trade him over somebody who helped you lose that game.
His crucial turnover/ brainfart didnt help them either

[ChuckOakley]

Harden is a great player... no doubt. OKC wanted to hang onto him, but they couldn't justify offering him a max deal with the luxury taxes the way they are. I think their original plan was to amnesty Perkins this off season, but then the Howard trade happened and they had to have Perkins. OKC made a run at Harden, but he wanted max money so that is that. I don't blame him for wanting to get the most money he could get. He might have been able to make some of it up with endorsements since OKC is an elite team, but that's no guarantee.

As far as trading Westbrook.. no thanks. He can chuck it at times, but he has carried this team several times when Durant's shots weren't falling. As much as I like Harden the order to me is Durant, Westbrook and then Harden.
Again, this doesn't make sense.

They offered him 4/54.
The most they would have had to pay him was 4/58. What does that extra $1m per year matter?

[ripthekik]

If Westbrook had the green light and his own team, he'd probably do more damage to the Pistons. Just saying :confusedshrug:

[ThunderKat]

Again, this doesn't make sense.

They offered him 4/54.
The most they would have had to pay him was 4/58. What does that extra $1m per year matter?

Harden wanted the 5 year $80 million dollar deal, which he got. The Thunder were offering $54 mil for 4, right? I think the math works out to be like $16 million per season on a five year max deal and $13,500,000 on a 4 year deal. So, that's 2.5 million a season difference. I think the problem is he wanted the long term 5 year deal over the 4 years. OKC really wanted to stay under the cap, but keep Harden and it didn't work.

Harden's agent gets a percentage and surely pushed him toward the bigger number of 5 year $80 million deal. We are talking a contract difference of $26 million, which deal sounds better? I'm sure Harden wanted to stay, but the $26 million was too great to pass up.

[SpecialQue]

Hmmm...should they have randomly lowballed one of their Olympian superstar players and then traded him or the other? Decisions, decisions...

[guy]

I can see why people think he's a bigger asset than Rondo. He has more superstar talent....the way his form is, the lift he gets on his jumper and a range of assorted things from body control to athleticism and obvious work ethic.

i could see him being the best scorer in the game one day.

But with Rondo you have a better chance to win now and a lower salary that allows you to keep Harden and Ibaka.

I don't. I think Rondo has the talent to be a 20 ppg scorer, but he just doesn't have the mindset, and yet he's equally effective as Westbrook and is much more able to fit into any team. He doesn't ever get in the way of his teammates like Westbrook does with Durant, yet he will step up and do what needs to be done if needed. I think the Thunder would've been clearly better with Rondo instead of Westbrook.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I don't. I think Rondo has the talent to be a 20 ppg scorer, but he just doesn't have the mindset, and yet he's equally effective as Westbrook and is much more able to fit into any team. He doesn't ever get in the way of his teammates like Westbrook does with Durant, yet he will step up and do what needs to be done if needed. I think the Thunder would've been clearly better with Rondo instead of Westbrook.

Yes The Thunder would be better...but you don't get what I'm saying.

I am as big a Rondo fan as you can find , my only criticism of him is that he's perhaps a bit too passive at times but at least that's a hallmark of the position he plays.

With that being said....I think WB is the bigger ASSET . If you reduce it to pure individual marketability and skill, what Westbrook can potentially become is far more valuable than anything Rondo can.

Of Course Westbrook becoming what he can become is not necessarily in the best interest of the team , so that's why Rondo would be better.

[ChuckOakley]

Harden wanted the 5 year $80 million dollar deal, which he got. The Thunder were offering $54 mil for 4, right? I think the math works out to be like $16 million per season on a five year max deal and $13,500,000 on a 4 year deal. So, that's 2.5 million a season difference. I think the problem is he wanted the long term 5 year deal over the 4 years. OKC really wanted to stay under the cap, but keep Harden and it didn't work.

Harden's agent gets a percentage and surely pushed him toward the bigger number of 5 year $80 million deal. We are talking a contract difference of $26 million, which deal sounds better? I'm sure Harden wanted to stay, but the $26 million was too great to pass up.
Except no one could have offered 5/80 next summer. 4/58 was the most OKC would have had to match. The only way Harden was getting 5/80 now was if they traded him to a team that was willing to make him the 1 player on the team eligible to get that extension.
If OKC let him his free agency, all they had to match was 4/58.

[soadrules]

Although I do agree with the general consensus in the thread regarding Westbrook showing up in the finals and overall being a better player; here's a point for discussion;

The general availability of point guards in the league. In the league, we have a vast number of really good point guards that, although not as good as Westbrook, could have possibly dealt the Thunder a lesser blow than trading Harden.

Maybe someone like Dragic or Lowry (just throwing out names since they were both dealt from the Rockets) who both did not warrant a maximum deal like Russel Westbrook might, while keeping Harden.

Finding a replacement for Harden might be harder than finding a replacement for Westbrook is just something I would say is the only reason I might have traded Westbrook. Obviously there's no 'right' answer, just throwing out a point of discussion.

[R.I.P.]

But how does that change the situation? You get a max guy back for Westbrook and you are still back in the tax for 30-40 million over the next few years. The problem is that the deals that make real sense involve geographical problems like a Howard trade. The only one that I could see working would have been Westbrook for Rubio/Pekovic/Williams, because of the relationship between Love and Westbrook, but do you really want that duo in your division?

New Thunder

Rubio/Maynor
Harden/Thabo
Durant/Williams
Ibaka/Collison
Pekovic/Perkins

[imdaman99]

Believe me, Westbrook would have abused the pistons as well. Let's slow down.

I didn't approve of what OKC did either trading harden away, but if it meant one or the other I'd keep Westbrook every time.

[soadrules]

But how does that change the situation? You get a max guy back for Westbrook and you are still back in the tax for 30-40 million over the next few years. The problem is that the deals that make real sense involve geographical problems like a Howard trade. The only one that I could see working would have been Westbrook for Rubio/Pekovic/Williams, because of the relationship between Love and Westbrook, but do you really want that duo in your division?

New Thunder

Rubio/Maynor
Harden/Thabo
Durant/Williams
Ibaka/Collison
Pekovic/Perkins

Who is this in reference to?

[soadrules]

Im not an OKC fan. I just don't get why people are so concerned the owners keep all their money and not the players.


Because a championship is not a given, even with Harden, Durant, & Westbrook. If they go into the luxury tax and aren't successful (i.e. keep getting bounced in the semis/even the finals), will they still gain a net profit?

In the end, the NBA is a business. From a business perspective, I think this is the right (or near enough) the right decision. I personally would have thrown a feeler around for Westbrook since there are an abundance of pretty damn good point guards in the NBA.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Although I do agree with the general consensus in the thread regarding Westbrook showing up in the finals and overall being a better player; here's a point for discussion;

The general availability of point guards in the league. In the league, we have a vast number of really good point guards that, although not as good as Westbrook, could have possibly dealt the Thunder a lesser blow than trading Harden.

Maybe someone like Dragic or Lowry (just throwing out names since they were both dealt from the Rockets) who both did not warrant a maximum deal like Russel Westbrook might, while keeping Harden.

Finding a replacement for Harden might be harder than finding a replacement for Westbrook is just something I would say is the only reason I might have traded Westbrook. Obviously there's no 'right' answer, just throwing out a point of discussion.

If you call Westbrook a shooting guard he's a better shooting guard than Harden.If they could've gotten Lowry it would have still been better to keep Westbrook rather than Harden.

The argument for me is that you can plain and simple get more for Westbrook.

[DJ Leon Smith]

it wasn't Westbrook that disappeared in the playoffs tho...

Westbrook was the only guy keeping them in, every game of the Finals.

So you agree LeBron shouldn't have got a max deal after the 2011 Finals then.

[ILLsmak]

I don't even know if they were shopping him hard. I think they just got a great offer. That offer was amazing... or maybe they heard about the offer, gave him a chance to resign, then shipped him.

But that offer would be enough to pry a ton of players from their teams and OKC had an excuse to give it up.

-Smak

[brandonislegend]

James Harden is a much better all around player. Russell Westbrook has more trade value though.

[niko]

Because a championship is not a given, even with Harden, Durant, & Westbrook. If they go into the luxury tax and aren't successful (i.e. keep getting bounced in the semis/even the finals), will they still gain a net profit?

In the end, the NBA is a business. From a business perspective, I think this is the right (or near enough) the right decision. I personally would have thrown a feeler around for Westbrook since there are an abundance of pretty damn good point guards in the NBA.

Why do you care? Why does ISH care? They made money, if i give you $20 you can keep it and use it for tomorrow. They are not a public entity. Basically Harden is gone because the owner wants to operate as a profitable business more than a winning team. Lame. Very lame...

[R.I.P.]

Why do you care? Why does ISH care? They made money, if i give you $20 you can keep it and use it for tomorrow. They are not a public entity. Basically Harden is gone because the owner wants to operate as a profitable business more than a winning team. Lame. Very lame...

Yes these guys own NBA teams, but not all of them have limitless pockets. Maybe the guy can

[ThunderKat]

Except no one could have offered 5/80 next summer. 4/58 was the most OKC would have had to match. The only way Harden was getting 5/80 now was if they traded him to a team that was willing to make him the 1 player on the team eligible to get that extension.
If OKC let him his free agency, all they had to match was 4/58.

Interesting.. would the 4/58 have kept them under the cap? Have they paid everyone i.e. Thabo, Maynor etc..? Maybe they are saving money for current players or new additions. I would like to see what their cap space is and who they haven't taken care of.

[NumberSix]

Go re-watch the NBA finals and tell me you'd keep Harden over Westbrook........

Yeah, didn't think so.

[RRR3]

They should have kept both IMO. If they could somehow have kept KD, WB, Harden and Ibaka (by amnesting Perkins or whatever) then obviously do it no matter what. If that wasn't possible I wouldn't have chosen Ibaka over Harden.

[Chief Keef]

Go re-watch the NBA finals and tell me you'd keep Harden over Westbrook........

Yeah, didn't think so.



Going by your logic, the Heat should have traded Lebron after the 2011 finals :facepalm



I couldn't see them getting rid of Westbrook, but with his trade value they could have gotten whatever they wanted for him.

[Money 23]

James Harden is a much better all around player. Russell Westbrook has more trade value though.
Agreed.

I personally would've traded Westbrook because of the higher value and star power. OKC could've got more pieces in return.

Harden is a pure SG, Westbrook is a tweener kind of ... and honestly Harden might be the better passer / playmaker.

He can drive off the dribble, and gives more versatility with his jumper than Westrbook. Only advantage Westbrook has is defensively.

OKC could've got a pure, distribute PG to help Durant and Harden in return for Westbrook.

[brandonislegend]

Agreed.

I personally would've traded Westbrook because of the higher value and star power. OKC could've got more pieces in return.

Harden is a pure SG, Westbrook is a tweener kind of ... and honestly Harden might be the better passer / playmaker.

He can drive off the dribble, and gives more versatility with his jumper than Westrbook. Only advantage Westbrook has is defensively.

OKC could've got a pure, distribute PG to help Durant and Harden in return for Westbrook.

Thats not a question, he for sure is.

[Money 23]

Thats not a question, he for sure is.
People may confuse Westbrook's relentless driving ability for playmaking.

I know Harden is a better passer, that much is evident.

[Haymaker]

Don't you people realize that OKC couldn't pay Harden more than Durant? He signed for 80 mil in 5 years. No way OKC would've signed that check.

[NumberSix]

Going by your logic, the Heat should have traded Lebron after the 2011 finals :facepalm
How in the world is that "my logic"? :confusedshrug:

[Rubio2Gasol]

Agreed.

I personally would've traded Westbrook because of the higher value and star power. OKC could've got more pieces in return.

Harden is a pure SG, Westbrook is a tweener kind of ... and honestly Harden might be the better passer / playmaker.

He can drive off the dribble, and gives more versatility with his jumper than Westrbook. Only advantage Westbrook has is defensively.

OKC could've got a pure, distribute PG to help Durant and Harden in return for Westbrook.

Westbrook is definitely the better play maker. If you look at the space he creates and how defenses collapse around him, there's really no comparison.

Thunder are allowed to be the team they are just because of how much defenses have to honor Westbrook.

His jumper is I suppose "better" but when I look at Westbrook's form and lift...it seems to me that someone with his work ethic is going to get everything to start falling eventually.

[Money 23]

Westbrook is definitely the better play maker.
They both penetrate at elite levels, whatever the difference between Harden and Westbrook in those regards it's miniscule compared to their differences as natural passers. And Harden is a much better passer. That makes him the better play maker ... he creates for himself and others. All while being clearly the better shooter. With that said, I'd say Westbrook is easily the better defender.

[brandonislegend]

Westbrook is definitely the better play maker. If you look at the space he creates and how defenses collapse around him, there's really no comparison.

Thunder are allowed to be the team they are just because of how much defenses have to honor Westbrook.

His jumper is I suppose "better" but when I look at Westbrook's form and lift...it seems to me that someone with his work ethic is going to get everything to start falling eventually.

Can't take this post serious, harden knows how to play at different speeds and how do actually use angles to set people up. Westbrook just runs as fast as he can and if he can't shoot it passes it, that's not playmaking.

[Cali Syndicate]

But they were willing to offer him $54m, what was the extra $1-2m per year going to do to them?

Meanwhile, winning is what brings in revenue, if OKC compromised their ability to win by trading Harden, then they also compromised revenue.

Just an extra $1-2m per year?

4 years - $52 million
5 years - $80 million

Just simple division equates a difference of 3 million. Then add on luxury taxes. $1-2 million is not even close

[secund2nun]

Westbrick is just another overrated low percent shot jacking PG like Rose. I'd take Harden anyday over Westbrook.

[Money 23]

Westbrick is just another overrated low shot jacking PG like Rose.
Rose is a smarter, better decision maker, and has a better attitude.

[ChuckOakley]

Just an extra $1-2m per year?

4 years - $52 million
5 years - $80 million

Just simple division equates a difference of 3 million. Then add on luxury taxes. $1-2 million is not even close
The most OKC could have offered him was not that much. If OKC let him hit free agency the most any team could have offered him was 4/58 and they could have matched that. They were offering 4/54 thus a difference of $4m or $1m per year.


The only way Harden was getting 5/80 was if they traded him to another team that hadn't extended anyone for 5 years and they were willing to make him their 1 5 year max extension player.. like Houston.

[secund2nun]

Rose is a smarter, better decision maker, and has a better attitude.

I agree with that, but both are in a similar mold and I find both of them to be overrated as players and styles of players.

[Money 23]

I agree with that, but both are in a similar mold and I find both of them to be overrated as players and styles of players.
I'm not overly fond of players that rely almost exclusively on athleticism, either.

But Rose has proven he can be alpha with entire defenses geared to stop him, yet still take over in critical portions of games.

He's not playing with a top 3 - 5 player, to distract defenses. There value as players can't be compared until Westbrook is carrying a team with no other offensive weapons.

Even considering all that ... Westbrook playing with Durant 28 - 30 ppg type scorer and Harden 22 - 25 ppg type scorer ... he averaged what? 5 assists a game last year as their PG?

That's pathetic.

[RRR3]

WB averaged 8 APG the year before FWIW.

[Rubio2Gasol]

There's a reason Westbrook attacks and averages low assist totals and what not. Look at what the kid does to defenses, rotations and the space he creates.

He impacts defenses much more than Durant does.

You really think he can't stand on the perimeter and have Durant come around a screen and throw him the ball?

What he does is better for the team.

I'm looking forward to seeing him play with Maynor.

[lilgodfather1]

Rose is a smarter, better decision maker, and has a better attitude.
Rose is a better PG, but Westbrook is a better player. For what it's worth I like Rose more than Westbrook though.

[BlackVVaves]

i think Westbrook could be the best player in the NBA this year, and maybe out do lebron if he takes advantage of the extra opportunities and slack with Harden gone and his shot is on. he has the talent, and he's unstoppable more or less but one of his biggest problems has been IQ which seems to have gotten a lil better each year. Westbrook is tenacious and affects games that way like few other players.

i think Harden is a bit overrated right now, not saying he isn't really good, but he had a lot to prove and was motivated. i don't think he's going to pull this all season especially when his shot isn't falling.

What?

[outbreak]

Shoulda offered Westbrook and Ibaka for Howard and a S/T Anderson. Imagine how hard it would be to cover everyone on that line up with Harden, Durant, Dwight and Anderson.

[RoseCity07]

If Lamb doesn't pan out then this trade was really stupid. Kevin Martin is not as good as Harden. Harden also has much more future value too.

Presti is an overrated GM. His best pick was arguably Harden or Ibaka. Durant and Westbrook were no brainers picks. Perkins sucks. Not paying Harden is stupid. He's really squandering OKC's championship potential right now. Think if they would have kept Tyson Chandler.:facepalm

I don't understand why a great team would change a critical part of their success. You expect small signings to make them better, but you don't do this.

[Rubio2Gasol]

They have 2 picks + Lamb. They have a great draft history.

Their Franchise players are 23 years old. 3 years from now it could take on a whole new light.

[KDthunderup]

GOATBrook is a far better player then Harden, anyone who watches OKC regularly knows that

[chips93]

If Lamb doesn't pan out then this trade was really stupid. Kevin Martin is not as good as Harden. Harden also has much more future value too.

Presti is an overrated GM. His best pick was arguably Harden or Ibaka. Durant and Westbrook were no brainers picks. Perkins sucks. Not paying Harden is stupid. He's really squandering OKC's championship potential right now. Think if they would have kept Tyson Chandler.:facepalm

I don't understand why a great team would change a critical part of their success. You expect small signings to make them better, but you don't do this.

the westbrook pick raised some eyebrows at the time, far from a no brainer

[pegasus]

the westbrook pick raised some eyebrows at the time, far from a no brainer
Yep, almost everyone said that he went too high.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Westbrook was almost universally labelled a bust before playing a minute in this league.

[PyrrhusX]

Westbrook > Harden - Give Harden a season before you start bagging WB who has proved him self consistently and has continually improved every year. I would rather keep WB 9 times out of ten and the only player I would rather have instead of him, if forced to trade for anything, would be Rose.

WB does so much for the Thunder and if he continues to improve he could realistically be a darkhorse for MVP.

[Graviton]

LOL Westbrook was the reason they beat Dallas and Lakers, and he was the only one playing with heart in the Finals. He is the best player at his position, best scorer one of the best defenders/rebounders at PG and most athletic guy in the NBA. And you wanna trade him for a flopping #3 SG that disappeared in the Finals?

Westbrook is a Top 5 player that is like slightly less patient D Rose, Harden is just Ginobli of this decade.

[IGotACoolStory]

Harden is just Ginobli of this decade.

Ginobili given a chance to have his own team. Who knows how good that could have been...

[Graviton]

The only player I would rather have instead of him, if forced to trade for anything, would be Rose. WB does so much for the Thunder and if he continues to improve he could realistically be a darkhorse for MVP.
Someone knows his shit lol, but I think Westbrook is better than Rose after the ACL, he just needs to be more patient.

All the people jizzing over "pure PGs" have no idea the impact Westbrook/Rose have in the game. They are almost unstoppable, they actually win you games. Statpadin assists and not being a scoring threat has no impact, when Rondo/CP3 go into that relaxed "pure PG" mode they lose games or keep the other team close. While being aggressive is always better, for example Westbrook vs Lakers, Rondo vs Heat, CP3 vs Memphis. Problem is Rose/Westbrook can do that every game, CP3/Rondo aren't as explosive. Just watch Rose vs Rondo, CP3, DWill, Parker last 2 years, he makes them look like role players, Westbrook is the only one who can match him.

[Whoah10115]

This thread is full of dumbassness.


I'm not saying they should have traded Westbrook before Harden. But that so many people can't understand what would be valuable there and people are still bashing Harden as overrated is just :facepalm

[longtime lurker]

Yes trade your 2nd best player and the guy that didn't choke in the finals. :lol Only on ISH does this make any kind of sense

[Whoah10115]

Yes trade your 2nd best player and the guy that didn't choke in the finals. :lol Only on ISH does this make any kind of sense



The idea is getting back an elite player at a position you need...so if you could get Howard or someone else who is elite and plus a hole you have, maybe two.

[Cali Syndicate]

The most OKC could have offered him was not that much. If OKC let him hit free agency the most any team could have offered him was 4/58 and they could have matched that. They were offering 4/54 thus a difference of $4m or $1m per year.


The only way Harden was getting 5/80 was if they traded him to another team that hadn't extended anyone for 5 years and they were willing to make him their 1 5 year max extension player.. like Houston.

Well, it seems that Harden wanted 4/60 but what you stated sounds right. That 1-2 mil difference still doesn't account for the luxury taxes. Whatever the actual difference was, the luxury taxes would have essentially doubled it.

[PyrrhusX]

Well, it seems that Harden wanted 4/60 but what you stated sounds right. That 1-2 mil difference still doesn't account for the luxury taxes. Whatever the actual difference was, the luxury taxes would have essentially doubled it.

No, Harden was willing to go cheap, he just wanted assurances that he wouldnt get traded after a few years ....

[longtime lurker]

The idea is getting back an elite player at a position you need...so if you could get Howard or someone else who is elite and plus a hole you have, maybe two.

But Howard was never available... You can't just assume you could trade Westbrook for Howard otherwise I could just say that you could trade Harden for Howard and have a better trio of Westbrook, Howard and Durant.

[WillyJakk]

But Howard was never available... You can't just assume you could trade Westbrook for Howard otherwise I could just say that you could trade Harden for Howard and have a better trio of Westbrook, Howard and Durant.

He said "or elite big".

You don't think if OKC makes some calls to teams about Westbrook being available that some team would trade their elite big + for him?

You don't think Hibbert+, Horford+, for example wouldn't be on the table in return for Westbrook?

I think it even woulda been a slim chance (in hell) they coulda gotten Blake Griffin and Mo Williams from the Clippers if they'd packaged Westbrook + Ibaka.

Point is I just think it's easier to build around (SG) Harden, (SF) Durant, (PF) or (C) considering the style of PG Westbrook is.

[longtime lurker]

He said "or elite big".

You don't think if OKC makes some calls to teams about Westbrook being available that some team would trade their elite big + for him?

You don't think Hibbert+, Horford+, for example wouldn't be on the table in return for Westbrook?

I think it even woulda been a slim chance (in hell) they coulda gotten Blake Griffin and Mo Williams from the Clippers if they'd packaged Westbrook + Ibaka.

Point is I just think it's easier to build around (SG) Harden, (SF) Durant, (PF) or (C) considering the style of PG Westbrook is.

Well what makes you think that you couldn't land an elite big for Harden? OKC could have taken the Nuggets place in the Howard trade and landed Bynum for Harden(this is realistic). Or Howard for Ibaka and Harden.

[Whoah10115]

But Howard was never available... You can't just assume you could trade Westbrook for Howard otherwise I could just say that you could trade Harden for Howard and have a better trio of Westbrook, Howard and Durant.



The thread is a hypothetical...it's something they could have looked into, instead of just trading Harden.

[longtime lurker]

The thread is a hypothetical...it's something they could have looked into, instead of just trading Harden.

Fair enough. But Westbrook gives you more than Harden can. I don't see why the Thunder would trade their 2nd best player and the at worst 3rd best player in the finals.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Since 2 seasons ago, I felt Westbrook should be the trade asset. It's been discussed plenty before, even on ESPN - 1 insider saying like 22, or something, GMs said they'd trade for him in a heartbeat and trade him away in a heartbeat lol.

When I saw Westbrook in person, I was in awe of his physical talent and basketball skill. It was before he began having the spotlight on him for his lack of a basketball mind. Unfortunately, 2 years later, the case is still the same - great physical skills and tools, bad mental skills and tools.

OKC could've got more for him than they did for Harden, I believe...although they definitely coup'd Houston. Oh well.

[WillyJakk]

45pts/ 7rebs tonite says the wrong kid died for OKC.

Harden woulda been the guy to keep w/ Durant due to Durant's lackluster playmaking abilities as well.

[Timmy D for MVP]

This is a good example of people thinking things happen in a vacuum.

There is no case in which Harden would have been able to flourish like he will have the opportunity in Houston to do night after night in OKC without a major injury (which would have hampered the team anyway). In essence, you can't point to the 45 and say SEE? since he likely wouldn't have played that role within a game.

There is also no way of telling what the effect would have been if you had tried to change his role because they got rid of Westbrook (a player they know fits into their system).

Would I personally have liked to see Presti take his time? Yes. But I am not a GM, and it seemed pretty obvious after he rejected the contract that Harden was going to be traded. OKC took what they (and what I) thought was a good offer.

The other thing is that you don't just get any pick of any team with Westbrook's contract. All in all, it would have made no sense, outside of if Westbrook had injury issues, to trade him rather than Harden.