West > Bryant is an arguable position.

[jongib369]

Not one that I personally hold, but would have a hard time choosing between the two.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlryGCKtTo&feature=g-all-u

Omg he basically touched lord goatbe

http://blog.zap2it.com/thedishrag/kobe-bryant-all-white.jpg



http://content.fathead.com/product_images/39-01328.jpg


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/JULIUS-ERVING-PHILADELPHIA-76ERS-VS-JOHN-HAVLICEK-BOSTON-CELTICS-8X10-PHOTO-/00/$(KGrHqYOKnEE1QYZlDp,BNhWe,zd3w~~_35.JPG


http://oi50.tinypic.com/15mn5s5.jpg



http://cdn103.iofferphoto.com/img/item/180/930/065/aXf1.jpg


http://fyi09.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/bron-kobe-1.jpg

[jongib369]

Highlight is from Dantheman9758/CavsFTW. NEW

Good Job once again Dan :applause:

[IGOTGAME]

Kobe> Larry Bird is arguable too. Doesn't mean it is correct though.

[9erempiree]

Kobe> Larry Bird is arguable too. Doesn't mean it is correct though.

I got Kobe over Larry because Kobe can play defense where Bird was a liability on defense.

[Freedom Kid7]

I got Kobe over Larry because Kobe can play defense where Bird was a liability on defense.
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/titan-performance-modifications/146460d1347739440-help-headers-exhaust-not_sure_if_srs.jpg

[jongib369]

Kobe> Larry Bird is arguable too. Doesn't mean it is correct though.
Right and I'm not saying it is, just posted for the highlight and see the discussion that might ensue. I love both players but Kobe is a childhood favorite of mine (behind Jordan) and then seeing how great he is makes it hard for me to say west is better...BUT, West was all that and a bag of potato chips also so...It's arguable

IMO West VS Kobe is a lot closer than Kobe VS Bird.

[jongib369]

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/titan-performance-modifications/146460d1347739440-help-headers-exhaust-not_sure_if_srs.jpg

:roll:

:applause:




Completely random, but heard this the other day and thought of your highlights :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAl3A2pYFhM

[Freedom Kid7]

:roll:

:applause:




Completely random, but heard this the other day and thought of your highlights :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAl3A2pYFhM
Beautiful
Also, is dantheman Cav's youtube account or yours? Cuz I haven't seen Cavs around but he's still making YT vids and you're posting them

[jongib369]

Beautiful
Also, is dantheman Cav's youtube account or yours? Cuz I haven't seen Cavs around but he's still making YT vids and you're posting them
It's mine

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/126/055/lied.gif?1306191204

it's his, my youtube channel "Jongib369" is the only one I got. (Which is consisted of 90% his footage) If he posts a video and doesn't make a thread about it I do sometimes. I was his first sub/view...That's the excuse I'll go with :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

No it's not.

Kobe has more championships, finals mvps, mvps, all-nba teams, all-star teams, all-defensive teams, career points, career playoff points. And to top it off, "Kobe is the best Laker ever" -Jerry West.

[9erempiree]

No it's not.

Kobe has more championships, finals mvps, mvps, all-nba teams, all-star teams, all-defensive teams, career points, career playoff points.

also, many of the Lakers' records that he holds, the very same team that West played for.

His resume is just huge compared to West.

Kobe's longevity is unmatched too. The man is still regarded as the best or one of the best players in the L

[Freedom Kid7]

Oh okay then. Makes enough sense. :cheers:

[jongib369]

No it's not.

Kobe has more championships, finals mvps, mvps, all-nba teams, all-star teams, all-defensive teams, career points, career playoff points. And to top it off, "Kobe is the best Laker ever" -Jerry West.
Championships isn't an argument on who the better individual player is IMO...Same with finals MVP's...Not his fault he had to run into that monopoly of a team throughout his entire career. Place Kobe on those laker teams with Elgin, I doubt he wins more than west. As for playoff points, West 153 playoff games Kobe 220. Not fair to make that argument either. BUT, I do agree with you that Kobe was the better player.

[9erempiree]

Championships isn't an argument on who the better individual player is IMO...Same with finals MVP's...Not his fault he had to run into that monopoly of a team throughout his entire career. Place Kobe on those laker teams with Elgin, I doubt he wins more than west. As for playoff points, West 153 playoff games Kobe 220. Not fair to make that argument either. BUT, I do agree with you that Kobe was the better player.

It's also not Kobe's fault that West can't play in more playoff games.

I like how it's a knock that he's played more playoff games. If you need to get into the playoffs....you go with Kobe.

[Gotterdammerung]

I posted on this a while ago (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6368288&postcount=19):



Bryant: 15 years, 13 quality, 13 all stars, top 5 (02-04, 06-11), top 10 (00, 01). 2 year peak: 33-6-5.
West: 14 years, 12 quality, 14 all stars, top 5 (62 - 67, 70 - 73), top 10 (68, 69). 4 year peak: 30-6-6.

Shooting: Even. Caveat: Jerry West's numbers would be even higher had he played with a 3 point line.
Scoring: Even, tho West got to the line more often, and was a more physical guard. Kobe takes tougher shots just to prove he can make them.
Clutch: Even, but West was the superior playoff performer. He stepped it up much higher than Kobe ever did.
Defense: Even, but only when Kobe was inspired.
Work Ethic: Even

Difference? Kobe is/was the better dunker, and West the superior passer. He was the Lakers' primary ball carrier in the second half of his career. First half, he was a combo guard, but they didn't truly define positions in the 60s. Kobe has more hardware (titles, thanks to Shaq) but West was the better teammate, better locker-room presence and team leader. Kobe didn't learn the secret till very late, till he drank from the cup of bitter defeat in 2008.

Mr. Clutch by the skin of his nose.

BTW: Kobe is only 33. In other words, he has the potential to pass West, Jordan, and even Abdul Jabbar with the totality of his career, though - as long he stays healthy.

[jongib369]

It's also not Kobe's fault that West can't play in more playoff games.

I like how it's a knock that he's played more playoff games. If you need to get into the playoffs....you go with Kobe.
Reaching the playoffs is because of the team, not a single player. Also, they had less games/series back then. Cant blame west for that

[9erempiree]

Reaching the playoffs is because of the team, not a single player. Also, they had less games/series back then. Cant blame west for that

True but he's also had the chance to play less games to win a Finals and he only did it once.

[jongib369]

True but he's also had the chance to play less games to win a Finals and he only did it once.
I get what your saying, I just doubt Kobe could of done better if you replaced him with West having to go against those Celtic teams. Kobe wouldn't of won young IMO. it wouldn't of been until the 70s just like west he would started to get chips...BUT I could be bat shit crazy and way off

[Legends66NBA7]

They'll always be arguable in my eyes.

[jongib369]

They'll always be arguable in my eyes.
Glad you agree with my position that it's arguable....Can you say why you think each has a case?

[Legends66NBA7]

Glad you agree with my position that it's arguable....Can you say why you think each has a case?

As players ?

There's not much in stats that separate the 2 players. Really, it comes down to who you want on your team.

Kobe can definitely give you longer years to compete at a high level, can win as both the first and second option, very skilled ISO scorer, more consistent is clutch situations (regular season wise), has range, very good man to man defender when focused, good playoff performer.

Wade is a great slasher to the basket, point guard passer when he started out, more effective scorer but lacks range, better peak year, great help defender, good playoff performer (better in the Finals).

It's really pick and choose to me. I just hope history shows it like that, but I doubt it.

Career wise ? It's not debatable. Clearly Kobe.

[Gotterdammerung]

Wade is a great slasher to the basket, point guard passer when he started out, more effective scorer but lacks range, better peak year, great help defender, good playoff performer (better in the Finals).

:biggums:
:coleman:
:kobe:

[jongib369]

:biggums:
:coleman:
:kobe:

:roll:

[Heavincent]

As players ?

There's not much in stats that separate the 2 players. Really, it comes down to who you want on your team.

Kobe can definitely give you longer years to compete at a high level, can win as both the first and second option, very skilled ISO scorer, more consistent is clutch situations (regular season wise), has range, very good man to man defender when focused, good playoff performer.

Wade is a great slasher to the basket, point guard passer when he started out, more effective scorer but lacks range, better peak year, great help defender, good playoff performer (better in the Finals).

It's really pick and choose to me. I just hope history shows it like that, but I doubt it.

Career wise ? It's not debatable. Clearly Kobe.

This is about West, not Wade. Wade doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Kobe.

[pauk]

In terms of individual players (talent/skill/productions/intangibles/IQ etc.) i agree...

But as far as career/accomplishments go its not equally debatable

[Legends66NBA7]

:biggums:
:coleman:
:kobe:

Wow, my bad. I need glasses.

:oldlol:

[jongib369]

In terms of individual players (talent/skill/productions/intangibles/IQ etc.) i agree...

But as far as career/accomplishments go its not equally debatable
I'm purely looking at it as the former

[Legends66NBA7]

This is about West, not Wade.

Yeah, I read Wade for some reason....


Wade doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Kobe.

If that's you stance, cool.

My argument before still stands of Kobe vs Wade.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm purely looking at it as the former

I've done this before man, I think you should leave it alone.

It's incredibly hard to compare two stars from opposing eras like that and taking how different their worlds.

I don't mind if you think West > Kobe, at all.

[TheBigVeto]

It is not arguable. It is a true fact West >>>>>>>>> Bryant

[NumberSix]

Kobe is OBVIOUSLY better. If you want to argue that West wast better relative to his own era, fine, but come on. Let's not be idiots here. Kobe Bryant is so obviously a superior player.

[CavaliersFTW]

It's cool to see how a few years ago a thread like this could have been so easily dismantled with unverifiable claims about what West could or could not do on the court with older folks saying they saw him do ____ and younger generation fans remaining skeptical or unimpressed or simply not acknowledging him due to not confidently knowing what he was capable of. Now that I've put forward enough footage there is a lot less gray area about him. That's all that matters to me, less speculation, more substance when his name comes up.

[red1]

Kobe is OBVIOUSLY better. If you want to argue that West wast better relative to his own era, fine, but come on. Let's not be idiots here. Kobe Bryant is so obviously a superior player.
This is the only argument that makes sense. If you are going to draft a player you would always go for kobe before west

[CavaliersFTW]

This is the only argument that makes sense. If you are going to draft a player you would always go for kobe before west
There isn't "only" one argument that makes sense here, West has a slightly different blend of abilities and a different personality than Kobe. Depending on how a franchise is planning to build one player can "fit" a system better over the other... In terms of these guys similar abilities this would not be unlike choosing between Bird or Magic - maybe it's easy for you if you like to rule out West due to the time he played, but for any talent scout who doesn't hold a bias it's not going to be such an easy choice

[red1]

There isn't "only" one argument that makes sense here, West has a slightly different blend of abilities and a different personality than Kobe. Depending on how a franchise is planning to build one player can "fit" a system better over the other... In terms of these guys similar abilities this would not be unlike choosing between Bird or Magic - maybe it's easy for you if you like to rule out West due to the time he played, but for any talent scout who doesn't hold a bias it's not going to be such an easy choice
kobe>west

[NumberSix]

kobe>west
Yup

[CavaliersFTW]

kobe>west
I don't mind your opinion at all, but you left out the part where you go on to list the reasons :lol

[bstickq1]

Kobe is OBVIOUSLY better. If you want to argue that West wast better relative to his own era, fine, but come on. Let's not be idiots here. Kobe Bryant is so obviously a superior player.

It never ceases to amaze me. I wasn't alive back then, but every time someone posts highlights of these older NBA players I see players that would have trouble making any half decent college team today. How some have deluded themselves so much to think, for example, that West could match any of the star guards by today's standards is amazing to me. But when they can watch this video and videos like it and have their minds filter what they see in them in such a way that they consider it evidence to support their arguments for how good these old players were, you really can't debate with them because they are so far gone. It's like arguing with someone saying the sky is yellow instead of blue. What do you even say?

[CavaliersFTW]

It never ceases to amaze me. I wasn't alive back then, but every time someone posts highlights of these older NBA players I see players that would have trouble making any half decent college team today. How some have deluded themselves so much to think, for example, that West could match any of the star guards by today's standards is amazing to me. But when they can watch this video and videos like it and have their minds filter what they see in them in such a way that they consider it evidence to support their arguments for how good these old players were, you really can't debate with them because they are so far gone. It's like arguing with someone saying the sky is yellow instead of blue. What do you even say?
130 posts in 4 years - I'm really convinced that this isn't a sockpuppet lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

It never ceases to amaze me. I wasn't alive back then, but every time someone posts highlights of these older NBA players I see players that would have trouble making any half decent college team today. How some have deluded themselves so much to think, for example, that West could match any of the star guards by today's standards is amazing to me. But when they can watch this video and videos like it and have their minds filter what they see in them in such a way that they consider it evidence to support their arguments for how good these old players were, you really can't debate with them because they are so far gone. It's like arguing with someone saying the sky is yellow instead of blue. What do you even say?
Repped. Great post. It's incredible how delusional some posters can be. All you can do is just laugh at crazy posters like jlauber and threads like these.

[LALakerFan4Life]

I got Kobe over Larry because Kobe can play defense where Bird was a liability on defense.
Jesus Christ! You can't be serious about Larry Bird being a liability on defense.

[CavaliersFTW]

Repped. Great post. It's incredible how delusional some posters can be. All you can do is just laugh at crazy posters like jlauber and threads like these.
The Jlauber account appears to have been banned -

Jerry West looks like a great basketball player and not just on paper... he looks like a top 3 SG all-time which makes comparisons with Kobe (#2) automatic, not delusional.

*Has a simple but secure "handle" with both hands (can navigate the floor freely w/o getting stripped...) no he doesn't use jab steps and crossovers to create space for shots but he doesn't need to to get his shot off he uses other means to effectively do so
*Good at driving inside and finishing at the rim - can be seen splitting double teams and getting fouled while still finishing strong
*Very automatic pull-up jumper especially from mid-range, with a quick release that looks as quick as a modern elite shooter like Ray Allen
*Creates effective shooting space with changes of pace and fakes
*Defensive ability looks stellar, 6-9 wingspan for his size is a good defensive tool, hands look quick and precise, strips opponents and blocks shots at an impressive rate
*Plays aggressive on both offense and defense, wants the ball in big moments
*A career reputation of thriving under pressure and in the clutch
*Good rebounder for his size
*A natural 2 guard that played the role of scorer, and facilitator equally well (lead the league in scoring once as a scorer, and assists once as a facilitator)
*Not just limited to roaming the perimiter, he displays ability to work his way into the post to create offense off passes shots or drives from the inside out
*Elite bball IQ - consistently makes the right plays at the right time
*etc etc etc

Seriously, there's lots of positive things going on with West's game he is a very complete player - what's delusional? Career success goes to Kobe no doubt, the 5 rings and longevity speak for themselves, they have beaten out Wests set of accomplishments. I just don't think it's "delusional" to think that in their peak as raw talents West and Kobe weren't comparably effective on the court. It's easy to just smear a "delusional" label on somebody - but your going to have to explain it otherwise your just coming off as a troll. I can tell you really miss those days when Jlauber was around to copy-paste essays upon request :oldlol:

[Psileas]

The Jlauber account appears to have been banned -

Why did this happen, by the way?

[CavaliersFTW]

Why did this happen, by the way?
Who knows :confusedshrug: , you could always PM Jeff - I'm not sure that the account was banned but seeing as how you cant get "info" from that profile anymore I'm assuming that means it was banned

[TheBigVeto]

kobe>west

Delonte West maybe.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Never watched West ay extensively , only highlights of various games . I think if we did some sort of era adjustment West would be considered better.

This is not like the normal troll thread though.

Feel as though you are trying to defend the era and you're simply using Kobe as an avenue to do that. At least that is an admirable cause :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

The Jlauber account appears to have been banned -

Jerry West looks like a great basketball player and not just on paper... he looks like a top 3 SG all-time which makes comparisons with Kobe (#2) automatic, not delusional.

*Has a simple but secure "handle" with both hands (can navigate the floor freely w/o getting stripped...) no he doesn't use jab steps and crossovers to create space for shots but he doesn't need to to get his shot off he uses other means to effectively do so
*Good at driving inside and finishing at the rim - can be seen splitting double teams and getting fouled while still finishing strong
*Very automatic pull-up jumper especially from mid-range, with a quick release that looks as quick as a modern elite shooter like Ray Allen
*Creates effective shooting space with changes of pace and fakes
*Defensive ability looks stellar, 6-9 wingspan for his size is a good defensive tool, hands look quick and precise, strips opponents and blocks shots at an impressive rate
*Plays aggressive on both offense and defense, wants the ball in big moments
*A career reputation of thriving under pressure and in the clutch
*Good rebounder for his size
*A natural 2 guard that played the role of scorer, and facilitator equally well (lead the league in scoring once as a scorer, and assists once as a facilitator)
*Not just limited to roaming the perimiter, he displays ability to work his way into the post to create offense off passes shots or drives from the inside out
*Elite bball IQ - consistently makes the right plays at the right time
*etc etc etc

Seriously, there's lots of positive things going on with West's game he is a very complete player - what's delusional? Career success goes to Kobe no doubt, the 5 rings and longevity speak for themselves, they have beaten out Wests set of accomplishments. I just don't think it's "delusional" to think that in their peak as raw talents West and Kobe weren't comparably effective on the court. It's easy to just smear a "delusional" label on somebody - but your going to have to explain it otherwise your just coming off as a troll. I can tell you really miss those days when Jlauber was around to copy-paste essays upon request :oldlol:
The 60s NBA as not developed yet. It was still in the early stages. West was a great player, I'm not denying that. But the era that he played in just isn't on par with the 80s-present. Even if you compare both in what they did in each time, is there any doubt as to who's better? It's "delusional" when people say the players in the 60s would dominate today's league like they did in the 60s. It just is, look at the tape. If you can't see it, then I can't help you.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Never watched West ay extensively , only highlights of various games . I think if we did some sort of era adjustment West would be considered better.

This is not like the normal troll thread though.

Feel as though you are trying to defend the era and you're simply using Kobe as an avenue to do that. At least that is an admirable cause :applause:
West would be better than Kobe in the modern era?
I'm done.
http://p.twimg.com/AyHlFIWCMAApcIx.gif:large

[CavaliersFTW]

The 60s NBA as not developed yet. It was still in the early stages. West was a great player, I'm not denying that. But the era that he played in just isn't on par with the 80s-present. Even if you compare both in what they did in each time, is there any doubt as to who's better? It's "delusional" when people say the players in the 60s would dominate today's league like they did in the 60s. It just is, look at the tape. If you can't see it, then I can't help you.
When I look at tape I see a game with tweaked rules - and just-as-elite of talent. Not a "lesser" game. Just a slightly different one. I don't doubt that a Lebron or Kobe of today would go back in time and adjust to the slightly different game and continue to dominant with MVP runs exceptional stats etc any more than I doubt Wilt, Kareem, or Oscar would be doing the same today. Saying that basketball was suddenly good in the 80's but not prior is extremely ignorant - basketball began getting heavily marketed in the 1980's - but it was elite long before that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8D0IIW4-pU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUqkuCic3GA

[Rubio2Gasol]

West would be better than Kobe in the modern era?
I'm done.
http://p.twimg.com/AyHlFIWCMAApcIx.gif:large


I am saying that West for his era and the time he played was probably at a more advanced level than Kobe among their respective contemporaries.

Jerry West would probably get better in any era with a 3 point line though.

[scream2207]

Have any of you used him in 2k12? The guy won't miss, its like cheating when you use him.. There is a reason he is called Mr.Clutch

[bstickq1]

The Jlauber account appears to have been banned -

Jerry West looks like a great basketball player and not just on paper... he looks like a top 3 SG all-time which makes comparisons with Kobe (#2) automatic, not delusional.

*Has a simple but secure "handle" with both hands (can navigate the floor freely w/o getting stripped...) no he doesn't use jab steps and crossovers to create space for shots but he doesn't need to to get his shot off he uses other means to effectively do so
*Good at driving inside and finishing at the rim - can be seen splitting double teams and getting fouled while still finishing strong
*Very automatic pull-up jumper especially from mid-range, with a quick release that looks as quick as a modern elite shooter like Ray Allen
*Creates effective shooting space with changes of pace and fakes
*Defensive ability looks stellar, 6-9 wingspan for his size is a good defensive tool, hands look quick and precise, strips opponents and blocks shots at an impressive rate
*Plays aggressive on both offense and defense, wants the ball in big moments
*A career reputation of thriving under pressure and in the clutch
*Good rebounder for his size
*A natural 2 guard that played the role of scorer, and facilitator equally well (lead the league in scoring once as a scorer, and assists once as a facilitator)
*Not just limited to roaming the perimiter, he displays ability to work his way into the post to create offense off passes shots or drives from the inside out
*Elite bball IQ - consistently makes the right plays at the right time
*etc etc etc

Seriously, there's lots of positive things going on with West's game he is a very complete player - what's delusional? Career success goes to Kobe no doubt, the 5 rings and longevity speak for themselves, they have beaten out Wests set of accomplishments. I just don't think it's "delusional" to think that in their peak as raw talents West and Kobe weren't comparably effective on the court. It's easy to just smear a "delusional" label on somebody - but your going to have to explain it otherwise your just coming off as a troll. I can tell you really miss those days when Jlauber was around to copy-paste essays upon request :oldlol:

Simple and secure dribbling is a good description of what I've seen in his videos, but at the same time I haven't seen him face any kind of impressive one on one ball pressure, let alone the primitive team defensive schemes that are on display in videos like this. He looks uncoordinated with the ball, and some good modern day pressure would really screw with his court awareness considering how much effort it looks like he gives to dribble. Like he has to actively think about it. It looks like he basically picked up a ball learned to dribble on his own, where as players these days grew up with endless critique built on the back of how the game has evolved and expanded from players like West.

It is the same idea for his finishing at the rim, he didn't have more than two mildly impressive raw finishes in all of the highlights of that video. What I'm referring to is skill in getting the ball in the basket at a tough angle or speed caused by the defense. Mostly somewhat standard finger rolls and layups, a few uncoordinated floaters. Similar to his dribbling, effective against the basketball environment he was in, but I doubt it would cut it these days.

As far as knowing the right time and place to cut through the defense with some hard acceleration he looked to be adept at this against his competition. Again though, and to put it bluntly almost everyone looks like a stiff on defense in general in this time period, from the videos I have seen.

His shooting is the biggest reason he would struggle today, 90% of the shots look slow and cumbersome, although in the clips with higher quality, which I assume come from later in his career it looks like he adjusted and improved a little.

It's not that it's a slow release, it's just telegraphed before he even gets into the shooting motion. He does fair better when he decides to shoot when he's realized he's hit an open spot as opposed to what looks like a pre conceived move to get a jump shot off.

He shoots it jumping 2 inches off the ground, and holds the ball out far in front of him with almost no fading either. The way his body moves during a shot sort of reminds me of a WNBA player. He even travels forward almost like he's trying to jump with his feet in some half dried cement that pulls him down. If you are going to shoot like that today, you've better have a good dribble set up which he does not, otherwise be relegated to a spot up shooter.

He had a few good pump fakes in the vids though, and with the way he held the ball during them he was able to shoot very quickly after performing them, which was impressive. Although I think he'd be in hotter water these days picking up his dribble like that and then going for the pump fakes. Overall, in general I think he would be blocked very very often in today's game with his actual skill set (non of that modern day training argument stuff), especially as the 2 guard spot is heavy with good defenders.

The only really impressive jumper to me was right after his only impressive finish at the rim back to back in the video, I don't remember what time it was at. It was a modern style fade going left with a hand in his face, right outside the key. A very difficult shot and was surprising to see.

As far as his defense, things were so telegraphed and raw back from what I see in videos that it's hard to get a gauge of how skilled he actually was. A highlight video makes it even harder to determine the defense of a player. You could watch some highlights and come out thinking Kobe was some kind of shot blocker. Much harder than offensive highlights because we usually just see them jump up and smash a ball with brute force in them, not exactly something that can help us judge anything. And based on the original premise of what I said I don't know if I'd take someones word that he was very good at it.

As far as some clever passes, when I watch these old videos that is the aspect that seems to have held up the best. Defenses aside, there's a lot of trickery and crispness to the passing that is addicting to watch. Or maybe it's the contrast to the uncoordinated player movement that the quality passing stands out more.

Lastly, as far as being more effective on the court of course it's possible he was at the time, that's not exactly the issue here though.

[CavaliersFTW]

His shooting is the biggest reason he would struggle today, 90% of the shots look slow and cumbersome
lol good one sockpuppet - literally had me laughing out loud

[The-Legend-24]

Put Kobe in that era, and he's averaging Wilt Chamberlain like scoring numbers.

[bstickq1]

lol good one sockpuppet - literally had me laughing out loud
"It's not that it's a slow release, it's just telegraphed before he even gets into the shooting motion. He does fair better when he decides to shoot when he's realized he's hit an open spot as opposed to what looks like a pre conceived move to get a jump shot off."

Context bud.

He is a one guard though, not that it makes much difference for my post.

[DatAsh]

His shooting is the biggest reason he would struggle today,

The ball handling stuff I can somewhat see, but shooting? You think he'd struggle as a shooter?

West was a better shooter than 95% of the guards in the NBA today - including Kobe - that'd be his biggest strength.

[bstickq1]

The ball handling stuff I can somewhat see, but shooting? You think he'd struggle as a shooter?

West was a better shooter than 95% of the guards in the NBA today - including Kobe - that'd be his biggest strength.

"It's not that it's a slow release, it's just telegraphed before he even gets into the shooting motion. He does fair better when he decides to shoot when he's realized he's hit an open spot as opposed to what looks like a pre conceived move to get a jump shot off."

Context bud.

[eliteballer]

No, it's not:rolleyes:

[DatAsh]

"It's not that it's a slow release, it's just telegraphed before he even gets into the shooting motion. He does fair better when he decides to shoot when he's realized he's hit an open spot as opposed to what looks like a pre conceived move to get a jump shot off."

Context bud.

I'm well aware of the context, but it doesn't at all relate to the question I asked.

[bstickq1]

I'm well aware of the context, but it doesn't at all relate to the question I asked.

West was a better shooter than 95% of the guards in the NBA today - including Kobe - that'd be his biggest strength.

I mentioned that I thought he'd get blocked very very often with how he telegraphs himself, how he shoots it with the ball in front of him in such a way that it's practically in the opponents face, how he get's about 2 inches off the ground in each jump, and how there is rarely a fade to make up for this.

On the other hand his dribbling is very good even if it's simple, and I think he could hack it more with ball pressure related to his dribbling than his shot. As a spot up shooter he would be good though, that can't really be argued, so you have a case there. However even as just a spot up shooter what makes you think he is a better shot than bryant? The only shot that ignores the more advanced ball pressure of today's game is the free throw, which kobe has shot a higher percentage at in most years than him.

[CavaliersFTW]

"It's not that it's a slow release, it's just telegraphed before he even gets into the shooting motion. He does fair better when he decides to shoot when he's realized he's hit an open spot as opposed to what looks like a pre conceived move to get a jump shot off."

Context bud.

He is a one guard though, not that it makes much difference for my post.
He's a two-guard for the majority of his career, and a one-guard for a small portion of it. You knew that though, right? Of course you did :oldlol:

Don't worry about responding, I'll create your next response for you using your same bball IQ applied to Kobe Bryant: "Kobe is a 1 guard. His biggest weakness in the NBA today is his ball handling, versatility, and volume scoring. He's very one-dimensional. His passing and efficiency seems good tho - actually that's probably his best asset - but when he tries to dribble or score in volume he just doesn't seem to get the job done he looks slow and clumsy 90% of the time. - context bud" :roll: How was that? Pretty spot on right? Saying counter intuitive shit that makes no sense at all :lol I love your posting style it cracks me up man

[bstickq1]

He's a two-guard for the majority of his career, and a one-guard for a small portion of it. You knew that though, right? Of course you did :oldlol:

Don't worry about responding, I'll create your next response for you using your same bball IQ applied to Kobe Bryant: "Kobe is a 1 guard. His biggest weakness in the NBA today is his ball handling, versatility, and volume scoring. He's very one-dimensional. His passing and efficiency seems good tho - actually that's probably his best asset - but when he tries to dribble or score in volume he just doesn't seem to get the job done he looks slow and clumsy 90% of the time. - context bud" :roll: How was that? Pretty spot on right? Saying counter intuitive shit that makes no sense at all :lol I love your posting style it cracks me up man
I thought he was a two guard, and then I googled after my post and the first result had two people saying he was a one guard. The arguments I presented were on the basis of him being a two guard, which was even referenced in the post that your best response to was that I was a sock puppet. As a way to deflect how I thoroughly destroyed one of your old time players with basically just common sense, your response of no substance whatsoever and unrelated to the actual context of my post was very well crafted. You'd have to be good at that though wouldn't you.

Edit: By the way, you'd have been better off rolling with the point guard aspect. Turns out this guy is 6'2". Yeah. Watch out Kobe.

[CavaliersFTW]

I thought he was a two guard, and then I googled after my post and the first result had two people saying he was a one guard. The arguments I presented were on the basis of him being a two guard, which was even referenced in the post that your best response to was that I was a sock puppet. As a way to deflect how I thoroughly destroyed one of your old time players with basically just common sense, your response of no substance whatsoever and unrelated to the actual context of my post was very well crafted. You'd have to be good at that though wouldn't you.
So you destroyed Jerry West by saying his shooting is slow and ball handling is good?

Let me destroy Lebron James, here it goes ehem;

Lebron's weakest part of his game is his passing ability, versatility on defense, and athleticism. His clutch is okay though, he definitely seems to be the player you want to take the last shot of a game. Oh, he's a 1 guard btw because sometimes google says so.

DAYUM HE JUST GOT OWNED :oldlol:

You must be laughing your ass off while typing up your deadpan responses I don't blame you they are actually really funny cause they are so far from the truth yet delivered as if serious

[CavaliersFTW]

Edit: By the way, you'd have been better off rolling with the point guard aspect. Turns out this guy is 6'2". Yeah. Watch out Kobe.
http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg
Look out West, Kobe is way to big to handle!

[bstickq1]

So you destroyed Jerry West by saying his shooting is slow and ball handling is good?

Let me destroy Lebron James, here it goes ehem;

Lebron's weakest part of his game is his passing ability, versatility on defense, and athleticism. His clutch is okay though, he definitely seems to be the player you want to take the last shot of a game. Oh, he's a 1 guard btw because sometimes google says so.

DAYUM HE JUST GOT OWNED :oldlol:

You must be laughing your ass off while typing up your deadpan responses I don't blame you they are actually really funny cause they are so far from the truth yet delivered as if serious

Google has lied to me again. The most accurate looking sources show him at 6'4" with a high wingspan, not to mention your picture. In reality Kobe is supposed to be only just over 6'4" from what I've read. Back on the primary subject though, your feverish dancing around what I actually said in my post is so skillful I am actually getting turned on at this point. I am reclining in my chair and you are giving me a sexy lap dance with your typing.

Edit: Actually, how you are reading my post is the same way you watch these highlights of old players :O

[TMacsOneGoodEye]

Not really. Put them against each other at their respective best times of their careers and Kobe would most likely have West looking like a UFC fighter trying to do math. West would look dumb.

Jerry West is a legend, a pillar of the early foundations of the sport, but he wouldn't be able to compete against the high-level athletes of today's NBA, of which, love him or hate him, Kobe is the best of.

[Smoke117]

I got Kobe over Larry because Kobe can play defense where Bird was a liability on defense.

What a bunch of a horse shit. Kobe had one great defensive season and that was the 2000 season. Before the back problems Bird was one of the best help defenders in the league. Kobe put in full consistent effort once in his entire career and beyond that he was a below average to above average defensive player player. He was never consistent after 2000. He would posture up occasionally and everyone would get on his nuts like he was actually doing it every game. There is no one more overrated defensively in the history of the the NBA than Kobe Bryant. You are one of the most biased clowns there is though, so what you have to say is irrelevant.

[jongib369]

:roll:

[Psileas]

Not really. Put them against each other at their respective best times of their careers and Kobe would most likely have West looking like a UFC fighter trying to do math. West would look dumb.

Jerry West is a legend, a pillar of the early foundations of the sport, but he wouldn't be able to compete against the high-level athletes of today's NBA, of which, love him or hate him, Kobe is the best of.

On the contrary, West would definitely be able to compete with today's athletes, and today's Kobe is just another example of why he would. Today's Kobe, at 34+, with a 16+ year mileage, with the exception of upper body strength, is nowhere near an elite athlete for the NBA's standards any longer, yet, he's doing more than fine. Let's not even go to Nash, who possibly wasn't athletically at West's level even in his prime, and he definitely wasn't there at 37-38. And Nash, unlike West, rarely really cared about defense, anyway.

[bizil]

Peak value wise and GOAT wise Kobe has passed West by frankly. West held the GOAT SG crown for the longest time until MJ came around. Pete, Monroe, Gervin, Thompson, Bing, etc. were all legends but none could get to West. It took a guy like MJ who had Dr. J type size and athletic ability and then combining that with many of West's traits to overcome the Logo. Kobe is the most similar to MJ and he for many of the same reasons has passed West by. West as of now is the #3 GOAT SG of all time. But don't sleep on D Wade who has a great chance to pass West by GOAT style. And peak value wise I got D Wade and even T Mac over Jerry. My top five SG's peak value wise are MJ, Kobe, Wade, T Mac, and West.

[Rysio]

maybe it arguable but no one will give shit because one is still balling while the other retired 80 years ago.

[bizil]

The problem I see with West up against other SG's of MJ's time or today will come down to skilled players who are also freakish athletes. West they say was really about 6'4. That's not a big SG but a good sized one. West was still very athletic and he's arguably the greatest shooter of all time. He was the total package in terms of being a great scorer, great defender, great rebounder, and great passer all in one. The only perimeter who were like that are MJ, Bron, Kobe, Wade, and Hondo. Guys like Big O, Magic, Kidd, Drexler, Pippen, Hill, Penny, Bird, and Barry are close but are lacking one of the traits. So West is in epic air in terms of what he bought to the table. But I would take MJ, Kobe, Wade and T Mac over West. Not saying West couldn't hold his own because HE COULD!

[Segatti]

Not really. Put them against each other at their respective best times of their careers and Kobe would most likely have West looking like a UFC fighter trying to do math. West would look dumb.

Jerry West is a legend, a pillar of the early foundations of the sport, but he wouldn't be able to compete against the high-level athletes of today's NBA, of which, love him or hate him, Kobe is the best of.

Lol, so Kobe is better because he would win in a one vs one today? :lol

What matters is how much important a player was and how much impact he had on his time. Comparisons like this are useless.

[jongib369]

Not really. Put them against each other at their respective best times of their careers and Kobe would most likely have West looking like a UFC fighter trying to do math. West would look dumb.

Jerry West is a legend, a pillar of the early foundations of the sport, but he wouldn't be able to compete against the high-level athletes of today's NBA, of which, love him or hate him, Kobe is the best of.
Just noticed the eye LOL

[Lakers Legend#32]

West was a better team player/teammate.