Kevin Martin is equaling Harden's numbers from 2012

[28renyoy]

17/3/4 on 67 TS% vs 17/4/4 66 TS% last year

And he has no chemistry with the team yet. in b4 Harden is averaging 35 ppg, like that will continue

[Rubio2Gasol]

Almost never has the ball in his hands which will be a problem. Westbrook needs to be a scorer so he won't neccessarily get the shots he needs.

[imdaman99]

hes nowhere near the creator that harden was. the problem with okc is that they have 2 elite scorers than create their own shot and for others, and martin can create for himself but not really for others. no one else really on the roster can create too many shots on their own or for others.

[HylianNightmare]

good for him

[Haymaker]

Too bad you can't measure intangibles.

[knickswin]

K-mart is a good player and overlooked in my opinion, but you are deluding yourself if you think he is anywhere close to harden's level as a talent

[Scal]

That's all very well on paper, but I get the feeling that Harden was far more of a game changer than Martin (especially with his ability as a ball handler). Still not sure if OKC are better off or not (Maynor being healthy might negate some of the downside of trading Harden as well), but it's always tough when you start tweaking championship calibre teams (especially after a trips to the finals and WCF the 2 previous seasons, and the player moved had such a big role in that).

[brandonislegend]

Team's are gonna be so scared of Kevin Martin

[Clippersfan86]

Team's are gonna be so scared of Kevin Martin

Yup. Opposing coaches are game planning like crazy for him!

[Y2Gezee]

hes nowhere near the creator that harden was. the problem with okc is that they have 2 elite scorers than create their own shot and for others, and martin can create for himself but not really for others. no one else really on the roster can create too many shots on their own or for others.

That's what Eric Maynor is for.

Nobody should kid themselves into believing Kevin Martin is as good a player, but he fits in with that team because he doesn't need to pound the ball to score, but can create for himself enough to provide consistent offense off the bench. If it weren't for the direct comparison to Harden...people would see this for what it really is, Kevin Martin is a top 3rd option in the league considering what OKC have, nevermind 6th man.

They also got other assets for him...including a first round pick from this year, and future firsts. This year, i don't think they fall off that much....long term they got a haul in for him.

[SCdac]

They weren't a championship team even WITH Harden... so I applaud Presti's strong moves, because the Thunder need to look in different directions for a highly paid player (ie. a competent, scoring big man)... If Martin more or less provides the same offensive numbers they'll be fine. Got to look forward and keep strategizing, because it's not like they were reigning champs anyways.

[lilgodfather1]

They weren't a championship team even WITH Harden... so I applaud Presti's strong moves, because the Thunder need to look in different directions for a highly paid player (ie. a competent, scoring big man)... If Martin more or less provides the same offensive numbers they'll be fine. Got to look forward and keep strategizing, because it's not like they were reigning champs anyways.
Simple question Biedrins or Varejao? Similar stats, different on court value. Same thing as Harden and Martin.

[All Net]

They weren't a championship team even WITH Harden... so I applaud Presti's strong moves, because the Thunder need to look in different directions for a highly paid player (ie. a competent, scoring big man)... If Martin more or less provides the same offensive numbers they'll be fine. Got to look forward and keep strategizing, because it's not like they were reigning champs anyways.

They weren't a championship team with harden? Huh?

[knickswin]

Kevin Martin is a top 3rd option in the league considering what OKC have, nevermind 6th man.

haha, I used to make up all these fantasy knicks teams that would be contenders in my head and usually kevin martin was the 3rd option

[lilgodfather1]

haha, I used to make up all these fantasy knicks teams that would be contenders in my head and usually kevin martin was the 3rd option
I've been making up championship Cavs teams in my head, and Kyrie Irving is the third option. LeBron/Bynum/Irving/Waiters. :eek: :(

[SCdac]

They weren't a championship team with harden? Huh?

I mean, the stakes aren't that high IMO. This isn't like Dallas not retaining Chandler/Barea/Butler/Stevenson/etc (something that might mean the difference between a championship and no championship). Harden might be the better player, but trading him for current and future assets might have been the right decision. As long has that team has Durant I think they can afford to make tough decisions on the road to forming a successful model.

[Collie]

Kevin Martin IS a good player, he's a crazy efficient scorer who is also a great off the ball player. He's not superstar, and he has bad defense, but he's clearly an above average to good SG.

[knickswin]

I've been making up championship Cavs teams in my head, and Kyrie Irving is the third option. LeBron/Bynum/Irving/Waiters. :eek: :(

well, usually I tried to keep these teams realistic ...

[Walker]

Simple question Biedrins or Varejao? Similar stats, different on court value. Same thing as Harden and Martin.
Catch up dude, it's 2012 not 2008.....

[lilgodfather1]

well, usually I tried to keep these teams realistic ...
That's realistic... Well maybe not, but it's possible... Just barely.

[lilgodfather1]

Catch up dude, it's 2012 not 2008.....
Yeah, but I couldn't think of a better comparison. Biedrins a 10/10 player in the past doesn't/didn't have the same impact as Varejao another 10/10 player, just like Martin who can put up the same stats as Harden, but will not have the same impact Harden did.

[rodman91]

OKC did right thing even though Harden > Martin obviously.

[StateOfMind12]

Yup. Opposing coaches are game planning like crazy for him!
They'll game plan for Martin as much as teams game planned for Harden last year.

Martin has already been game planned for when he was in Sacramento and in Houston, he was fine.

Harden? I can tell you right now that his play for the rest of the season will be more similar to the Blazers game than it will be against the Pistons or Hawks.

Harden benefited big time playing next to Durant and Westbrook. Harden is an all-star, not a superstar. Don't get that confused.

[west_tip]

OKC did right thing even though Harden > Martin obviously.

I live near Sac so might be slightly biased but I saw a ton of K-Mart live when he was here and I think he is a very good fit for the Thunder. He's no Harden but he is a good scorer, has a nice jumper, great temperament and good bball iq. He will go some way to filling the void left with Hardens departure - what they really need is a low post scorer anyways.

[Scal]

I live near Sac so might be slightly biased but I saw a ton of K-Mart live when he was here and I think he is a very good fit for the Thunder. He's no Harden but he is a good scorer, has a nice jumper, great temperament and good bball iq. He will go some way to filling the void left with Hardens departure - what they really need is a low post scorer anyways.

I agree. I don't think most people would argue that KMartin is a better individual player than Harden, but he fits in with the Thunders system (i.e. Durant and Westbrook dominating the ball, Martin able to play off the ball, hopefully Maynor able to take over some ball handling responsibility).

It'll be interesting to see whether OKC hang onto Martin after this season.

[brandonislegend]

They'll game plan for Martin as much as teams game planned for Harden last year.

Martin has already been game planned for when he was in Sacramento and in Houston, he was fine.

Harden? I can tell you right now that his play for the rest of the season will be more similar to the Blazers game than it will be against the Pistons or Hawks.

Harden benefited big time playing next to Durant and Westbrook. Harden is an all-star, not a superstar. Don't get that confused.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[PyrrhusX]

Against Hawks: 6/7 fg, 4/5 3pts 22 points of the bench to carry the thunder ....
Kevin Harden :bowdown:

Sure James > Martin, but Martin playing his role for the team :applause:

[DuMa]

Im not about to argue that KMart is better or worse than James Harden but KMart is in a contract year. that will get anyone busting their ass ready to play, unless your name is Lamar Scrotum

[StateOfMind12]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Do you really believed teams game planned heavily for him last year? You're pretty crazy if you do. The Heat might have been the only team that game planned him hard and we all saw the result of that.

Harden doesn't have the benefit of having the 2nd/3rd best perimeter defender guarding him either. He never had the Iggy's, the Tony Allen's, the Lebron's guards him because they were guarding Westbrook and Durant, now those guys will guard him.

[Droid101]

Why does anyone even respond to this trolls threads? They're all stupid and agenda-driven.

[LakersForlife]

see thunder didnt lose any when harden went out.good move presti.more cap space plus he gets assets back.

[ZenMaster]

Do you really believed teams game planned heavily for him last year? You're pretty crazy if you do. The Heat might have been the only team that game planned him hard and we all saw the result of that.

Harden doesn't have the benefit of having the 2nd/3rd best perimeter defender guarding him either. He never had the Iggy's, the Tony Allen's, the Lebron's guards him because they were guarding Westbrook and Durant, now those guys will guard him.

So what you're saying is NBA teams don't gameplan for the other teams best pickn'roll ballhandler just because he's not an all star?

"Coach, so what are we doing on pickn'rolls on Harden? Hedge, trap, shadow what do you want coach?"
"Figure it out, we don't scout for 3rd options" :hammerhead:

What you're doing is using the Heat, who has some of the best pickn'roll defense the world has ever seen vs guards to show player X is not good.

Want proof Harden isn't a good playmaker? Look how he did vs the Heat.
Want proof Lin can't play pickn'roll? Look how he did vs the Heat.

[asdf1990]

when will you understand its not just about the numbers.

[spiegel]

He can equal his numbers all he likes, but the fact is Hardens playmaking and his hockey assists were a huge reason why they were good. When Westbrook was sucking, Harden got that offense running.

[brandonislegend]

Do you really believed teams game planned heavily for him last year? You're pretty crazy if you do. The Heat might have been the only team that game planned him hard and we all saw the result of that.

Harden doesn't have the benefit of having the 2nd/3rd best perimeter defender guarding him either. He never had the Iggy's, the Tony Allen's, the Lebron's guards him because they were guarding Westbrook and Durant, now those guys will guard him.

Are you serious or kidding before I respond. Don't wanna waste my time if this is a troll reply.

[2LeTTeRS]

Im not about to argue that KMart is better or worse than James Harden but KMart is in a contract year. that will get anyone busting their ass ready to play, unless your name is Lamar Scrotum

Why are you acting like Martin doesn't have a proven track record? Harden is a beast but no 3rd option is irreplaceable.

[LoveTheNBA23]

Today was a prime example of why Harden is so much more valuable to this team than Martin. When Russ couldn't hit on anything, the offense became stagnant. A lot of no purpose one on one dribbling that lead to a bad shot or a turnover. Same goes for Durant today.

[bluechox2]

:lol at people only looking at scoring...harden is a better defender and have many intangibles compared to martin

[Haymaker]

It's not like harden is leagues above Martin. It's more about the fact that he was a central piece of their system. Just like Turkoglu sucked for the Raptors while the season before he made Orlando a better team. They are used to Harden, and now they seem lost.

[AK47DR91]

:lol at people only looking at scoring...harden is a better defender and have many intangibles compared to martin
This.

Martin was scoring 20-23 PPG in Sacramento and Houston. Did his team get anywhere? Nowhere other than the lottery.

Harden is more than a scorer.

[StateOfMind12]

Are you serious or kidding before I respond. Don't wanna waste my time if this is a troll reply.
Serious, feel free to give me a legitimate response.


This.

Martin was scoring 20-23 PPG in Sacramento and Houston. Did his team get anywhere? Nowhere other than the lottery.

Harden is more than a scorer.
Yes, because one player is in control of whether or not his team wins or loses, not the team.

For the record, Kevin Martin was crazy efficient even when he was the main scorer which says a lot. Not many players can remain efficient when being the #1 option and I'm more than positive Harden will be one of them.


lol at Harden being a better defender though. Both are terrible on that end and neither have any leverage.

[bluechox2]

ill say , martin is in his perfect role right now though, coming off the bench and not looked as a #1 option...but okc lost a beat from losing harden and breaking up the friends

okc the reason why players form super teams in big cities rather in small markets, cus they cant jus afford all the big names over the span of a few years and end up shipping them out just to have ends meet financially, so there isnt any incentive for other players to sign with an core in a small market when u know it wont last very long...this is for most small market teams

[Collie]

I gotta say Martin will thrive in his current role, might even win 6MOY if he keeps it up.

[pnyozzzoo]

I love Harden, but his defense is not better than anyone not named amare. I think he just dont care about that end very much.

How did he do on defensive end in the playoffs in the past?

Machale isn't at the stage that he can yell to his no.1 star to play defense , give effort or sit him.

Is it coz he wont have energy for offense if he play hard nose defense? I hope The same thing happen to Melo will happen for Harden, coz I think he has the tool.

The optimistic thing that I can come up is he is only 23 and SG position is weak ,He mostly will give more than what he takes back. But ya his defense is pretty bad.

[noob cake]

I like how all the OKC fans are hating on Harden, but they can't name more than 3 SG better than Harden in the league.

[MontaEllis24]

Harden wasnt important to OKC because he can score a truckload of points theyve got westbrook and durant for that he was there for help defense and co-playmaker with westbrook, if your going to base hardens worth on scoring alone thats just dumb.

[brandonislegend]

OKC offense w/James Harden: 114.96 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 100.84 points per 100 possessions

PLAYOFFS

OKC offense w/James Harden: 115.13 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 102.46 points per 100 possessions

[bluechox2]

OKC offense w/James Harden: 114.96 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 100.84 points per 100 possessions

PLAYOFFS

OKC offense w/James Harden: 115.13 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 102.46 points per 100 possessions
who cares :confusedshrug:
those numbers do not include martin's impact...

keep those numbers for last season

[brandonislegend]

Look at his box score other than pts.