Lebron is now a top 5 perimeter player ever....

[G-Funk]

One of the best 5 that ever played the bb game it will stay like this for a long time.

Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Lebron, Bird


http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/Qu3en06/top5-1.jpg

[StateOfMind12]

Actually, he's top 4.

Only Bird, Magic, and Jordan are better or could be argued to be better. .


inb410pages

[RRR3]

One of the best 5 that ever played the bb game it will stay like this for a long time.

Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Lebron, Bird


http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/Qu3en06/top5-1.jpg
:applause:

[raprap]

:applause:

[NumberSix]

Actually, he's top 4.

Only Bird, Magic, and Jordan are better or could be argued to be better. .


inb410pagesoh shit. The gauntlet has been thrown down.

[plowking]

He might not be as accomplished, but hes certainly better than Magic and Kobe as a player. Bird and Jordan are debatable.

[G-Funk]

Actually, he's top 4.

Only Bird, Magic, and Jordan are better or could be argued to be better. .


inb410pages

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vPIgTuQM2gk/0.jpg

[FKAri]

Did this become official as of 8:32 EST tonight?

The Heat didn't even play tonight. What could he have done to put himself over the top tonight? He showed up at the Y?

[G-Funk]

He might not be as accomplished, but hes certainly better than Magic and Kobe as a player. Bird and Jordan are debatable.

Disagree, but it don't matter all are still top 5 like I said

[heyhey]

He might not be as accomplished, but hes certainly better than Magic and Kobe as a player. Bird and Jordan are debatable.

how the hell is bird superior to kobe as a player?

[Pushxx]

Oscar is higher on the all-time list at this moment. LeBron will be there soon.

[FreezingTsmoove]

how the hell is bird superior to kobe as a player?


:wtf:

[red1]

how the hell is bird superior to kobe as a player?
lol

[G-Funk]

Did this became official as of 8:32 EST tonight?

The Heat didn't even play tonight. What could he have done to put him over the top tonight? He showed up at the Y?

Became official this yr homeskillet

[plowking]

how the hell is bird superior to kobe as a player?

Better shooter, rebounder, passer, post player, more efficient, etc.

Shall I go on?

[Kiddlovesnets]

how the hell is bird superior to kobe as a player?
:sleeping

[G-Funk]

Oscar is higher on the all-time list at this moment. LeBron will be there soon.
Give me Lebron over that All-time 2nd fiddle who won in a overrated statistic era.

[StateOfMind12]

If we are going peak play, Lebron is the 2nd best perimeter player ever with only Jordan being better.

[G-Funk]

Better shooter, rebounder, passer, post player, more efficient, etc.

Shall I go on?

u forgot to say defender....oh wait

[heyhey]

Better shooter, rebounder, passer, post player, more efficient, etc.

Shall I go on?

yea... cuz Bird was a 3/4

Bird was not the better shooter or more efficient, he just played in an era where the average fg% was above .500

[AK47DR91]

He might not be as accomplished, but hes certainly better than Magic and Kobe as a player. Bird and Jordan are debatable.
What would it take for him to surpass Bird and Magic?

I don't see him surpassing Jordan since MJ probably has the GOAT status for the next decade or two.

[FreezingTsmoove]

yea... cuz Bird was a 3/4

Bird was not the better shooter or more efficient, he just played in an era where the average fg% was above .500


Your question was how Bird is a better player than Kobe. Who gives a **** if he plays 3/4 .

[DatAsh]

He might not be as accomplished, but hes certainly better than Magic and Kobe as a player. Bird and Jordan are debatable.

Disagree with him being clearly better than Magic, even if were only counting peaks, and he's hasn't played long enough to be ranked over Kobe.

[plowking]

What would it take for him to surpass Bird and Magic?

I don't see him surpassing Jordan since MJ probably has the GOAT status for the next decade or two.

I don't know if he'll surpass MJ, but I think he will Magic and Bird in terms of the public's view of things.
I have Bird higher than Magic on my list, but I'd say 3 titles with his current resume would be enough for me to surpass both though. Due to the careers of Bird and Magic being quite short.


Disagree with him being clearly better than Magic, even if were only counting peaks, and he's hasn't played long enough to be ranked over Kobe.

Well he most certainly is a better defender than Magic, and when it comes to the offensive side of things I think Lebron is the better scorer which is when it comes down to it, the most important part of basketball; putting the ball in the hoop.
I think Magic is great, but not as good as Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, etc as players. He's accomplished and had a great career. Great player, but individually not as good as the ones I mentioned.

I didn't say I'd rank him over Kobe on an all time list. Though I don't think there is question that he is a better player than Kobe ever was. And I'm basing this off a simple eye test, we don't even have to delve into stats.

[joeysms55]

This is how it goes for me talent wise....

Tier 1: Jordan

Tier 2: Bird, Magic, Lebron

[ripthekik]

And he's the only one to go ring chasing and join another top 3 player's team in his prime :roll: :roll: :roll:

[joeysms55]

^^^Top 8 according to ESPN. More reliable source than you are

[plowking]

And he's the only one to go ring chasing and join another top 3 player's team in his prime :roll: :roll: :roll:

Isn't everyone in the league chasing a ring?

Lebron just chose the right teammates. OMG! Bron Bron with the best bball IQ, knowing where to go. You're right rip. Bron just adding to his list of accomplishments. Able to go to another team, make it his and win a ring. Incredible, completely agree rip. His bball IQ now is probably the best of all time after reevaluating there with you.

[ripthekik]

Isn't everyone in the league chasing a ring?

Lebron just chose the right teammates. OMG! Bron Bron with the best bball IQ, knowing where to go. You're right rip. Bron just adding to his list of accomplishments. Able to go to another team, make it his and win a ring. Incredible, completely agree rip. His bball IQ now is probably the best of all time after reevaluating there with you.
All 4 other players won with the team they were drafted.

If giving up on his own franchise and joining another top 3 player's franchise to ring chase is an accomplishment then so be it.:applause:

[Micku]

And he's the only one to go ring chasing and join another top 3 player's team in his prime :roll: :roll: :roll:

I remember how ppl back in the day said it would hurt his legacy. The 2011 finals didn't do him justice either. But the 2012 season helped him a lot since Wade and Bosh weren't healthy by time the playoffs, and he was clearly the best player in the league. Even though he did join with Wade (top 3 player at the time) and Bosh, his game shouldn't be ignored, which is why it was a big deal.

I could acknowledge that he is one of the top 5 perimeter players ever. Sure.

[plowking]

All 4 other players won with the team they were drafted.

If giving up on his own franchise and joining another top 3 player's franchise to ring chase is an accomplishment then so be it.:applause:

OMG! Lebron paving a new path! You're right again rip, didn't notice. Doing something that hasn't be done before! Lebron the only one to be an MVP with two different teams! :applause:

[HardwoodLegend]

All 4 other players won with the team they were drafted.

If giving up on his own franchise and joining another top 3 player's franchise to ring chase is an accomplishment then so be it.:applause:

Kobe whined and forced a trade to a team which had the dominant ass Shaq.

He should have stayed with the team that drafted him. Charlotte, the birthplace of Michael Jordan's basketball greatness.

[ripthekik]

OMG! Lebron paving a new path! You're right again rip, didn't notice. Doing something that hasn't be done before! Lebron the only one to be an MVP with two different teams! :applause:
And winning his only ring in a shortened season as well! OMG! King bron :bowdown: His bball IQ is so high he knows to take advantage and win while the season is short :bowdown:

[ripthekik]

Kobe whined and forced a trade to a team which had the dominant ass Shaq.

He should have stayed with the team that drafted him. Charlotte, the birthplace of Michael Jordan's basketball greatness.
Go read up the history behind that. Charlotte drafted Kobe with the intention of trading him for Vlade. It was all done deal. Jerry wanted him.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't agree w/ posters saying Lebron (last season) was clearly better than Kobe (or Bird and Magic) ever was.

I'd personally take MJ over anyone else, but after that it's a crap shoot. Magic, Bird, and Lebron have all had arguably better peaks than Kobe, but Kobe has some seriously impressive longevity. 13+ seasons of 25/5/5 on respectable efficiency is amazing.

[HardwoodLegend]

Go read up the history behind that. Charlotte drafted Kobe with the intention of trading him for Vlade. It was all done deal. Jerry wanted him.

Nope.

Kobe stated his refusal to play for Charlotte and was attention-starved for the bright lights of L.A.

Either way, he was luckier from the beginning than LeBron. Can't fault for LeBron to go looking for greener pastures that other players had from the get-go.

[plowking]

And winning his only ring in a shortened season as well! OMG! King bron :bowdown: His bball IQ is so high he knows to take advantage and win while the season is short :bowdown:

Quite incredible really. Bron leads his new team to a finals in his first season, and then again in the shortened season.
Looks like it doesn't matter to him how long the season is, hes just going to the finals! Incredible Bron Bron!

[ripthekik]

Nope.

Kobe stated his refusal to play for Charlotte and was attention-starved for the bright lights of L.A.

Either way, he was luckier from the beginning than LeBron. Can't fault for LeBron to go looking for greener pastures that other players had from the get-go.

cool story bro.

A look back into the archives shows that the notion that Kobe orchestrated the trade is bogus. Kobe, in an interview during the 2000 Finals when the Lakers beat Indiana for the NBA title, said emphatically that he would have gladly played in Charlotte. Sure, he wanted to play for the Lakers, but who wouldn't? He also said that had he gone to college, he would have signed with Duke, so he liked the area.
And those who were involved in the wheeling and dealing at the time of the trade shoot down all the legends that have developed over the years.
"The deal was actually done a day ahead of time, and it was Vlade for a player to be named," said Bill Branch, the Hornets' head scout at the time who still operates out of Charlotte as a scout for the Seattle-now-Oklahoma City Sonics. "If I remember right, they didn't even tell us who they wanted us to pick until about five minutes before the pick was made. So it was never a matter of us actually drafting Kobe."
http://www.journalnow.com/archives/article_e7a4ddee-ed8d-5be1-9b81-723b924628ec.html
Please read and come back to report.


Quite incredible really. Bron leads his new team to a finals in his first season, and then again in the shortened season.
Looks like it doesn't matter to him how long the season is, hes just going to the finals! Incredible Bron Bron!
Indeed! Co-lead his first season with a new team into finals and manage a hall-of-fame choking performance that no other player could touch! :bowdown: King Bron with the GOAT choke performance - even I gotta give him props for that. :applause:

[swag2011]

Kobe whined and forced a trade to a team which had the dominant ass Shaq.

He should have stayed with the team that drafted him. Charlotte, the birthplace of Michael Jordan's basketball greatness.

Except the Lakers got Kobe before the got Shaq I believe.

Whined? You sound stupid. Although it was never proven true that Kobe forced a trade to LA, why does it matter? PLENTY of draft prospects refuse workouts with several teams. Not his fault that the 13 teams before him were stupid enough to not draft him, in spite of a 17 year old's claims :confusedshrug:

And the Lakers pretty much did draft him. Told Charlotte who to pick then boom, made the trade.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln9hyy7vmd1qbqmu8.jpg

[HardwoodLegend]

cool story bro.

http://www.journalnow.com/archives/article_e7a4ddee-ed8d-5be1-9b81-723b924628ec.html
Please read and come back to report.

Okay, so I was wrong.

What I said following that still stands though.

"Can't fault for LeBron to go looking for greener pastures that other players had from the get-go."

He made his own luck that Kobe Bryant had the good fortune of having at the start of his career. Shaq Diesel in his prime? Come on, man.

[HardwoodLegend]

Except the Lakers got Kobe before the got Shaq I believe.

You believe?

Now you're making false assumptions the way I did :lol

[upside24]

Wish people would quit feeding rip so I don't have to see his shitty posts.

[ripthekik]

Okay, so I was wrong.

What I said following that still stands though.

"Can't fault for LeBron to go looking for greener pastures that other players had from the get-go."

He made his own luck that Kobe Bryant had the good fortune of having at the start of his career. Shaq Diesel in his prime? Come on, man.
:cheers: Cheers for manning up.

Well Lebron did have the luxury of playing in the weak East though. I mean, other than Pistons and the Celtics.. who else was stopping him? Near guaranteed conference finals every year.

[ImmortalD24]

You believe?

Now you're making false assumptions the way I did :lol Too lazy to look it up? Here you go:
Kobe Bryant
July 11, 1996: Traded by the Charlotte Hornets to the Los Angeles Lakers for Vlade Divac.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#transactions

Shaquille O'Neal
July 18, 1996: Signed as a free agent with the Los Angeles Lakers.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html#transactions

Way to undermine your already worthless cred and assertion in one fell swoop.

[KOBE143]

Maybe.. :confusedshrug: But he will never ever surpass Mike and Kobe as the 2 GOAT player cos he ring chase/shortcut in his prime..

[Zedja]

Too lazy to look it up? Here you go:
Kobe Bryant
July 11, 1996: Traded by the Charlotte Hornets to the Los Angeles Lakers for Vlade Divac.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#transactions

Shaquille O'Neal
July 18, 1996: Signed as a free agent with the Los Angeles Lakers.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html#transactions

Way to undermine your already worthless cred and assertion in one fell swoop.
:lebronamazed: It was Kobe's team first!!!!






:kobe:

[Bigsmoke]

:sleeping

the word is longevity

Bird only has more MVPs.

Bird was better but Kobe should be higher because he has been great for a longer period of time

[Cali Syndicate]

All 4 other players won with the team they were drafted.

If giving up on his own franchise and joining another top 3 player's franchise to ring chase is an accomplishment then so be it.:applause:

Kobe was drafted by the Hornets. Say what?

[Pushxx]

LeBron will pass Oscar for #11 on all-time list in 2-3 years, regardless of whether he adds another ring or not.

Assuming he stays at this level of course.

[monkeypox]

Kobe was drafted by the Hornets. Say what?


Only a technicality. The Hornets didn't even know who they were drafting till draft day since they had already made the agreement with the Lakers to trade the pick away. The only reason why the Lakers didn't draft him directly is for contract reasons. The Lakers made that pick.

[ripthekik]

Kobe was drafted by the Hornets. Say what?
Answered by the guy above.
It's funny the only way to defend Lebron is to used such tecnicalities :roll: :roll: :roll:

[pauk]

Well... nothing to disagree with there...

[pauk]

LeBron will pass Oscar for #11 on all-time list in 2-3 years, regardless of whether he adds another ring or not.

Assuming he stays at this level of course.

He has already passed Oscar imo... he has accomplished more and been more dominant than Oscar was in his era...

Even statistically Lebron holds his own, what he is producing is equivalent to what Oscar produced in his era (or arguably better) when you think about him doing it in a modern era where there is more competition (more teams, more talent, more evolved basketball) and most importantly where pace/possessions is not as much to his advantage as it was to Oscar and the rest of the 60s players....

[arifgokcen]

Wish people would quit feeding rip so I don't have to see his shitty posts.
Indeed stop feeding that troll. Just ignore him

[LBJFTW]

Tier 1: Jordan

Tier 2: Does it really matter who's #1 - #4? :oldlol:

You're either TOP DOG or not. :confusedshrug:

[HardwoodLegend]

Too lazy to look it up? Here you go:
Kobe Bryant
July 11, 1996: Traded by the Charlotte Hornets to the Los Angeles Lakers for Vlade Divac.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#transactions

Shaquille O'Neal
July 18, 1996: Signed as a free agent with the Los Angeles Lakers.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html#transactions

Way to undermine your already worthless cred and assertion in one fell swoop.

Yet... they started the season at the same time giving Kobe a chance to start his career with Shaq Diesel in his prime.

I fail to see how this changes anything I previously said. It's not like the Lakers "getting Kobe first" meant he didn't have the luxury of the league's most dominant big man from the jump.

[swag2011]

Yet... they started the season at the same time giving Kobe a chance to start his career with Shaq Diesel in his prime.

I fail to see how this changes anything I previously said. It's not like the Lakers "getting Kobe first" meant he didn't have the luxury of the league's most dominant big man from the jump.

Yet u tried to paint it as Kobe wanted to go to the Lakers because Shaq was there, when in reality Kobe came to LA first.

Either way all is irrelevant. It's not like getting Shaq helped them from the jump, because last i checked it took Kobe becoming a full starter before Shaq won a finals game, MVP, or FMVP.

Kobe also didn't have the luxury of playing against 41-41 teams for the first 2 rounds of the playoffs either but that's a whole nother topic.

Face it, Kobe's a legend, top 5 perimeter player of all time, minumum top 10 all time.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwoyk1t9yK1qi84tm.gif

[HardwoodLegend]

Yet u tried to paint it as Kobe wanted to go to the Lakers because Shaq was there, when in reality Kobe came to LA first.

Either way all is irrelevant. It's not like getting Shaq helped them from the jump, because last i checked it took Kobe becoming a full starter before Shaq won a finals game, MVP, or FMVP.

Kobe also didn't have the luxury of playing against 41-41 teams for the first 2 rounds of the playoffs either but that's a whole nother topic.

Face it, Kobe's a legend, top 5 perimeter player of all time, minumum top 10 all time.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwoyk1t9yK1qi84tm.gif

I admitted that I didn't know the bogus rumors about him forcing the trade were false. And, I was always under the impression he wanted to play in L.A. simply for the Hollywood glamour... not because of Shaq. I simply remembered him beginning his career with Shaq, which was a huge luxury.

:oldlol: @ you presenting counterarguments to make it seem like LeBron had a fortunate start to his career in comparison. No. Having a 24-year-old Shaq trumps ALL of that.

And, I'm not arguing against Kobe's status as a legend. But, rip constantly gets on LeBron for looking for better teammates and bringing up players who began their careers in much much greener pastures. That was the whole basis of the argument. There's no reason to fault LeBron for trying to get what other players had to begin their fortunate silverspooned careers.

[Money 23]

I don't agree w/ posters saying Lebron (last season) was clearly better than Kobe (or Bird and Magic) ever was.
Me neither, I refuse to say it is his best season ever. Still pretty confident he was a better and more dynamic player in 2009 and 2010.


personally take MJ over anyone else
I'd say he's quite easily the top dog. His combo of peak play, duration of prime, leader influenced team success, domination of peers and fellow era produced legends ... I really don't think there should be an argument otherwise.

I'd say LeBron probably has the 2nd greatest peak play of the five players mentioned.


Magic, Bird, and Lebron have all had arguably better peaks than Kobe, but Kobe has some seriously impressive longevity. 13+ seasons of 25/5/5 on respectable efficiency is amazing.
Got to give props to Kobe for his longevity and consistency. Especially considering beyond Bird, who had the crippling back injury, Kobe's had the most wear and tear on crucial parts of his body for the sport (knees, shoulder, fingers) ...

Granted he was hidden his first two or three years in the league by coming off the bench for a very deep squad in LA. It allowed him to mature, adapt and grow at his own pace that the other players couldn't afford. So while that allowed him to have more longevity, with less load barring minutes early in his career ... it also took away from his career totals and averages.

MJ would've had similar longevity, possibly better. We'll see how Kobe is performing at ages 39 and 40, like we saw of Jordan on the Wizards.

To think MJ threw away a year of his absolute peak / prime (1994 and 1995), and I'm fairly certain the twilight years he threw away (1999, 2000, and 2001) ... given that he averaged what? 25 ppg (pre-injury) and 23 ppg as a 39 year old, and 20 ppg as a 40 year old when he basically came off the bench for half the season to give Stackhouse and Hughes time to shine in his transition back to the front office.

I'm pretty sure MJ starting in 1999 to 2002 would've been average anywhere from 28 ppg - 25 ppg. And god knows a prime MJ in '94 with no baseball sabbatical would've averaged between 33 ppg - 30 ppg for those two seasons.

MJ and Kobe will survive longest because of their insane footwork, skills, jump shooting ability, intelligence, will, and determination.

[Segatti]

Oscar Robertson and Jerry West. Lebron will eventually pass the two, but not yet.