View Full Version : James Harden goes up against elite defender in Iguodala and....
StateOfMind12
11-07-2012, 11:25 PM
he turns the ball over 6 times and scores 15 points on 5-15 shooting.
Yep, like I said first two games, he went up against crappy defenses. Now that he is finally going up against elite defenses and elite perimeter defenders, he is being exposed. In OKC, the third best perimeter defender guarded him which was usually some scrub and he took advantage of that. The best perimeter defender is now on him and now he is being shown that he is no Westbrook nor Durant.
Tony Allen will shut him down on Friday night.
Godzuki
11-07-2012, 11:29 PM
it wasn't just Iggy, it was Faried too. he was all over the place.
KDthunderup
11-07-2012, 11:30 PM
Kevin Martin averaging 19.5ppg on 51% fg as 3rd option :bowdown: :bowdown:
millwad
11-07-2012, 11:31 PM
RG, he still averages 30 points per game, he has been OK this far.
millwad
11-07-2012, 11:33 PM
Kevin Martin averaging 19.5ppg on 51% fg as 3rd option :bowdown: :bowdown:
People overreacted big time after Harden's two first games, OKC didn't get robbed. Good picks, Kevin Martin and the talented Jeremy Lamb is not bad for Harden.
All Net
11-07-2012, 11:34 PM
Knew this was coming when he had a bad game..
StateOfMind12
11-07-2012, 11:35 PM
Knew this was coming when he had a bad game..
He had bad game against Portland. I didn't make any thread because I actually thought he was fatigued and that was a legitimate argument. He had 3 days rest coming into tonight's game and he was shut down by the superior Andre Iguodala.
NuggetsFan
11-07-2012, 11:36 PM
it wasn't just Iggy, it was Faried too. he was all over the place.
Yeah. Iggy did a great job on him and really locked down the perimeter but Denver is a team that's constantly switching. Worked tonight, usually gets them burned by somebody.
I'd say Iggy did most of the damage but guy's like Gallo, Faried defended him from time to time and helped out.
3peated
11-07-2012, 11:37 PM
harden got paid son, get off him
He's going to struggle against teams that guard screen and roll penetration well.
Show high, and trap on his ass and he'll have uneven game. But it's easier said than done.
AngelEyes
11-07-2012, 11:40 PM
Knew this was coming when he had a bad game..
Of course you knew it was coming, because people overreacted big time initially when he was playing his ass off and now they're going to get on him when he's struggling... pretty predictable.
StateOfMind12
11-07-2012, 11:40 PM
He's going to struggle against teams that guard screen and roll penetration well.
Show high, and trap on his ass and he'll have uneven game. But it's easier said then done.
He'll struggle against those teams and teams that have very good perimeter defenders. Miami did a great job defending him in the Finals because it was usually either Lebron or Battier guarding him, both who are top 10 perimeter defenders in the league. Usually teams' 2nd/3rd best perimeter defender aren't that good but Miami's perimeter defense is/was stacked like pancakes and that is why Harden got exposed in the Finals last season.
Money 23
11-07-2012, 11:49 PM
He's going to struggle against teams that guard screen and roll penetration well.
Show high, and trap on his ass and he'll have uneven game. But it's easier said than done.
Tell that ninja to develop a post game ...
Or watch video of Ray Allen / Reggie Miller / Mitch Richmond / RIP Hamilton
Move without the ball to get yourself free, and not need to dribble all the time to be effective.
Learn how to cut. Lost art.
IGOTGAME
11-07-2012, 11:50 PM
he turns the ball over 6 times and scores 15 points on 5-15 shooting.
Yep, like I said first two games, he went up against crappy defenses. Now that he is finally going up against elite defenses and elite perimeter defenders, he is being exposed. In OKC, the third best perimeter defender guarded him which was usually some scrub and he took advantage of that. The best perimeter defender is now on him and now he is being shown that he is no Westbrook nor Durant.
Tony Allen will shut him down on Friday night.
tbf, Westbrook does that once a week. Kobe is doing that as we speak
Whoah10115
11-08-2012, 12:14 AM
Tony Allen is the best man defender in the game.
Harden will play well.
LakersForlife
11-08-2012, 12:23 AM
where are those harden dick riders?haha Kevin martin > harden
Whoah10115
11-08-2012, 12:39 AM
where are those harden dick riders?haha Kevin martin > harden
:oldlol:
mjokc
11-08-2012, 12:44 AM
OKC fans tried telling you that Harden is good, just not first option good. If he was that good he would have started, no matter how bad the bench was. Harden will have some awesome games ahead of him, then he will have his shitty ones. OKC will be fine without Harden, K Mart is no scrub.
StateOfMind12
11-08-2012, 01:15 AM
Tony Allen is the best man defender in the game.
Harden will play well.
I think you mean Harden will not play well because Allen is an even better defender than Iggy.
Fatstogie
11-08-2012, 01:17 AM
he turns the ball over 6 times and scores 15 points on 5-15 shooting.
Yep, like I said first two games, he went up against crappy defenses. Now that he is finally going up against elite defenses and elite perimeter defenders, he is being exposed. In OKC, the third best perimeter defender guarded him which was usually some scrub and he took advantage of that. The best perimeter defender is now on him and now he is being shown that he is no Westbrook nor Durant.
Tony Allen will shut him down on Friday night.
No hes on a new team. Of course he cant just ISO 24/7. Also you have to consider his physical conditioning. Hes gonna get more minutes as well. Ill be more curious to see him in mid season form if htey can get their offense flowing.
Gotta let him settle. Idk how you guy sare so into basketball but are so expecting results instantly. Look how everyone hated the heat. NOw they are the greatest show on earth, exactly as promised. And still getting better. Give the dude a minute, damn. He'll be in teh top 10 scoring this year. Definitely possible to break into the top 5.
Of course playing tough D is hard. It requires better rhythm and its gonna be hard for any new team. Dude dont even have a home yet.
Whoah10115
11-08-2012, 01:29 AM
I think you mean Harden will not play well because Allen is an even better defender than Iggy.
No, that's the point. Harden will play well.
Just as defenses adjust to him, he will adjust to defenses.
spiegel
11-08-2012, 03:08 AM
he turns the ball over 6 times and scores 15 points on 5-15 shooting.
Yep, like I said first two games, he went up against crappy defenses. Now that he is finally going up against elite defenses and elite perimeter defenders, he is being exposed. In OKC, the third best perimeter defender guarded him which was usually some scrub and he took advantage of that. The best perimeter defender is now on him and now he is being shown that he is no Westbrook nor Durant.
Tony Allen will shut him down on Friday night.
And you're country man lin was getting abused by Lawson and looked like crap. Whats you're point. Harden>>>>>>>>>>>>lin
spiegel
11-08-2012, 03:09 AM
where are those harden dick riders?haha Kevin martin > harden
If you believe that god help you.
flipogb
11-08-2012, 03:12 AM
newsflash, Iguodala is a great defender
bdreason
11-08-2012, 03:25 AM
People forget that Martin will get hurt as well. Not sure he's played an entire year without injury his entire career.
Harden will be up and down all year, and so will Lin. Both these guys are on brand new teams, in brand new roles.
Shepseskaf
11-08-2012, 05:58 AM
This was predictable. Harden has always struggled against athletic perimeter defenses with length.
Harden's first two games were like a condensed version of Linsanity, great performances that raised expectations way too high.
How awful, that took his average down dramatically.... to only 30-6-5... lol
Yung D-Will
11-08-2012, 08:39 AM
Yeah. Iggy did a great job on him and really locked down the perimeter but Denver is a team that's constantly switching. Worked tonight, usually gets them burned by somebody.
I'd say Iggy did most of the damage but guy's like Gallo, Faried defended him from time to time and helped out.
I tell people how dangerous Denver's gonna be, because they picked up the best Perimeter defender in the league. But everyone's like no, Denver started out 0-3 Bla bla. :coleman:
maybeshewill13
11-08-2012, 08:42 AM
How awful, that took his average down dramatically.... to only 30-6-5... lol
His numbers will gradually drop down, it's inevitable. Harden is an awesome player, but he's not Michael Jordan.
24.5 - 6 - 5 is certainly achievable for Harden though. Hopefully he can keep up his efficiency too.
Whoah10115
11-08-2012, 02:19 PM
His numbers will gradually drop down, it's inevitable. Harden is an awesome player, but he's not Michael Jordan.
24.5 - 6 - 5 is certainly achievable for Harden though. Hopefully he can keep up his efficiency too.
Not only is he not Michael, but he's not that kind of player either. He's an all-around guy, who fills up the stat sheet (Michael did just the same) but, like Manu, his stats will not fully reflect just how all-around he is...like last year, his assists were solid, but even per Min he was behind Westbrook.
pnyozzzoo
11-08-2012, 02:40 PM
Houston Traded the wrong player...
lol.:pimp:
swi7ch
11-08-2012, 02:53 PM
Tony Allen will shut him down on Friday night.
Poor man's Michael Jordan! :bowdown:
Watching highlights they showed most of Hardens turnovers and it wasnt Iggy who stripped him. Just saying. I didnt see the game so I'm sure Iggy did a good job. He's arguably the best perimeter defender in the game. But to act like 6 turnovers was because of Iggy isnt accurate. Thats typical look at boxscore and let me match the Sgs together and speak on it. :no:
NugzFan
11-08-2012, 04:35 PM
Watching highlights they showed most of Hardens turnovers and it wasnt Iggy who stripped him. Just saying. I didnt see the game so I'm sure Iggy did a good job. He's arguably the best perimeter defender in the game. But to act like 6 turnovers was because of Iggy isnt accurate. Thats typical look at boxscore and let me match the Sgs together and speak on it. :no:
Watching the actual game, iguadala shut harden down.
Watching the actual game, iguadala shut harden down.
Cool story bro. :confusedshrug:
NugzFan
11-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Cool story bro. :confusedshrug:
You didn't see the game so I was just helping you out. Without dre we probably lose the game
You didn't see the game so I was just helping you out. Without dre we probably lose the game
I dont need to see the game to know Iguodala whom in my post I cited as arguable the best perimeter defender didnt help out. Its quite obvious he did (i never implied otherwise). What was said was simple. Iggy didnt cause 6 turnovers as stated. Guys like Gallo and Faried were stripping Harden when he drove to the basket. Nice attempt at helping tho I guess. :rolleyes:
NugzFan
11-08-2012, 07:35 PM
You're welcome
ThunderKat
11-08-2012, 07:44 PM
He will have nights where he's on fire and nights where he's a magician. The guy can flat out play, but he's not the second coming. I wish the guy the best, but it did kind of irritate me when he recently said all he does is win and how he was only allowed to be a bench player in OKC ... I was like really.. where were you in the finals, bro?!!! If you act like you can save a team then you better be able to back it up.
StateOfMind12
11-08-2012, 07:53 PM
It seems like the Rockets pace have slowed down these past 2 games as well. and Harden's production went down along with that.
I think Harden scores off of transition really well but he'll be in trouble when the game slows down, in the closing seconds of a game, and against elite defenses.
From what I remember, he did score a lot of transition points against both ATL and DET and that was why he was as great as he was. He scored a decent amount of his points against POR and DEN in transition as well but when he wasn't in transtiion, he struggled.
shoops
11-08-2012, 08:21 PM
It seems like the Rockets pace have slowed down these past 2 games as well. and Harden's production went down along with that.
I think Harden scores off of transition really well but he'll be in trouble when the game slows down, in the closing seconds of a game, and against elite defenses.
From what I remember, he did score a lot of transition points against both ATL and DET and that was why he was as great as he was. He scored a decent amount of his points against POR and DEN in transition as well but when he wasn't in transtiion, he struggled.
Ball movement started to stagnate in the past 2 games though. McHale's gameplan seems to just be dumping the ball into his hands asap, and it's not really working.
Shepseskaf
11-08-2012, 10:13 PM
He will have nights where he's on fire and nights where he's a magician. The guy can flat out play, but he's not the second coming. I wish the guy the best, but it did kind of irritate me when he recently said all he does is win and how he was only allowed to be a bench player in OKC ... I was like really.. where were you in the finals, bro?!!! If you act like you can save a team then you better be able to back it up.
Yet another reason why it was the right thing for OKC to part ways with him. His role on the team would definitely have been a cause for dissension.
StateOfMind12
11-09-2012, 02:32 AM
Ball movement started to stagnate in the past 2 games though. McHale's gameplan seems to just be dumping the ball into his hands asap, and it's not really working.
The Rockets offensive playbook is simply either Lin pick and roll with a big or James Harden pick and roll with a big.
They're a very predictable team.
Lin is not shooting very well this season but he is doing other things very well.
Mr Exlax
11-09-2012, 03:25 PM
Iggy's one of the best defenders in the game. The thing that makes it even worse for us is that we don't have any weapons right now besides Harden. That makes defending him that much easier.
MiseryCityTexas
11-09-2012, 04:06 PM
Houston Traded the wrong player...
lol.:pimp:
kevin martin sucks if you dont surround him with all star talent so im glad he's gone.
Klazart
11-09-2012, 05:19 PM
If you watch the game it was actually Crawford that shut Harden down much more than Iggy. Man has some kind of twisted vendetta against the rockets, no idea why.
StateOfMind12
11-09-2012, 05:42 PM
kevin martin sucks if you dont surround him with all star talent so im glad he's gone.
Yeah, he had a lot of all-star talent in Sacramento. :rolleyes:
StateOfMind12
11-09-2012, 11:23 PM
Tony Allen is the best man defender in the game.
Harden will play well.
Good call bro.
18 points, 4-18 shooting, 5 turnovers.
You need to predict more often so I can gamble with the opposite. :oldlol:
Come on Harden, my fantasy team needs your production.
bluechox2
11-09-2012, 11:28 PM
harden playing like himself now
maybeshewill13
11-09-2012, 11:29 PM
Come on Harden, my fantasy team needs your production.
You're doing well this matchup :lol
StateOfMind12
11-10-2012, 01:14 AM
Harden plays the Pistons tomorrow night. I expect him to play pretty well to pad up his stats cause he'll play Miami on Monday.
Whoah10115
11-10-2012, 01:17 AM
Good call bro.
18 points, 4-18 shooting, 5 turnovers.
You need to predict more often so I can gamble with the opposite. :oldlol:
It happens...Harden will get better. The offense has to get better tho...they gotta play the rookie PF's. Lin and Harden are great, but they don't have enough options on the floor, considering isn't good yet when not running.
I'd really like to see Royce White.
Shepseskaf
11-10-2012, 01:19 AM
harden playing like himself now
Bottom line -- Harden is a very capable sixth man. He ain't the league's next superstar.
StateOfMind12
11-10-2012, 01:20 AM
It happens...Harden will get better. The offense has to get better tho...they gotta play the rookie PF's. Lin and Harden are great, but they don't have enough options on the floor, considering isn't good yet when not running.
I'd really like to see Royce White.
Good to know that Harden will get worse, the offense has got to get worse, and they can't play the rookie PFs. It's also great to know Lin and Harden suck, and have enough options on the floor.
You're doing well this matchup :lol
You laugh now.
Shepseskaf
11-10-2012, 01:27 AM
Good to know that Harden will get worse, the offense has got to get worse, and they can't play the rookie PFs. It's also great to know Lin and Harden suck, and have enough options on the floor.
:oldlol: Its just like being in the bizarro world.
maybeshewill13
11-10-2012, 03:10 AM
You laugh now.
:banana:
Go Getter
11-10-2012, 03:20 AM
Patterson and Parsons put up decent numbers the last few games.
Lin & Harden combined for almost 10 turnovers. I bet the bigs would play better if the guards took care of the ball better.
Klazart
11-10-2012, 04:42 AM
Patterson and Parsons put up decent numbers the last few games.
Lin & Harden combined for almost 10 turnovers. I bet the bigs would play better if the guards took care of the ball better.
Patterson and Parsons are getting the same number of rebounds as Lin. They are getting crushed in the Post and getting crushed on the boards because they are soft and that is actually a huge problem for the rockets right now. Parsons also had a bunch of bad TO in this game.
Go Getter
11-10-2012, 04:56 AM
Patterson and Parsons are getting the same number of rebounds as Lin. They are getting crushed in the Post and getting crushed on the boards because they are soft and that is actually a huge problem for the rockets right now. Parsons also had a bunch of bad TO in this game.
Rebounding numbers can be misleading when A. Parsons is sent on the break. B. Asik is getting the majority of the rebounds as a space eater. And C. they let Li. Get boards to start breaks.
Again, you expect your guards to protect the rock first and foremost.
If you give all the credit to Lin and Harden when they win and play well you have to give them some blame as well. Patterson has shot the ball surprisingly well at least to me and Harden and Lin have cooled off a lot (Lin shot well tonight).
It's not all Parsons and Patt....the team just really isn't that good overall.
MiseryCityTexas
11-10-2012, 05:12 AM
Yeah, he had a lot of all-star talent in Sacramento. :rolleyes:
You already know i meant on the thunder.
Klazart
11-10-2012, 10:10 AM
Rebounding numbers can be misleading when A. Parsons is sent on the break. B. Asik is getting the majority of the rebounds as a space eater. And C. they let Li. Get boards to start breaks.
Again, you expect your guards to protect the rock first and foremost.
If you give all the credit to Lin and Harden when they win and play well you have to give them some blame as well. Patterson has shot the ball surprisingly well at least to me and Harden and Lin have cooled off a lot (Lin shot well tonight).
It's not all Parsons and Patt....the team just really isn't that good overall.
These are fair points. There are weaknesses on the team, I'm not convinced that the backcourt is to blame.
The coaching style has resulted in a really stagnant offence, which is hurting both Harden and Lin. Asking Harden to ISO by himself all day long and Lin to go stand in the corner all day long is negatively impacting both players. If they wanted a spot up shooter from NY they should have paid for Novak, not Lin.
Also there's no point trying to turn Harden into Melo, cause he just isn't that kind of player.
There is no post play at all and Asik while great on defence is providing little to no offensive threat. He just can't catch the ball, so forget about alley-oops.
This is making it very easy for opposing defenses to clog the paint and focus on Harden and Lin.
Add to that in the last couple of games I've seen virtually ZERO strong screens set for Lin, considering this was his bread and butter at NY, I find this utterly baffling.
He took 9 shots last game and 10 total this game. What's up with that? If I'm McHale, I'm telling Lin that he needs to have at least 15-20 basket attempts in the game, no matter if he makes or misses. And no, that doesn't mean he should jack up 3's from behind the arc like Westbrick on a bad night.
Right now there is just too much pressure on Harden, Lin is being underused and his coaches aren't putting any real faith on him. But it's an inexperienced, young team, so you expect some teething problems. Hopefully they work it out sooner rather than later. IMO to say that the players aren't good enough is short sighted.
Look at the Lakers, with their star studded line up. Their plan has been Kobe ISOing kinda like Harden isoing for the rockets, while Nash is neglected like Lin. Poor strategy and coaching made these legendary players(talking about Lakers) look like scrubs last few games. So blaming the players on the rockets when there are so many obvious strategic weaknesses is unfair.
StateOfMind12
11-10-2012, 03:49 PM
You already know i meant on the thunder.
What the **** does that even mean?
kevin martin sucks if you dont surround him with all star talent so im glad he's gone.
Really? So if he sucks if you don't surround him with all-star talent, why was he so good in Sacramento? Idiot
Good job backtracking, baby dick.
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