After months of rockets flying into Israel, Hamas military chief dead, fighting rises

[dunksby]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/11/15/03/01/hamas-commander-killed-in-israeli-strike

[niko]

It's basically a war where both sides have decided collateral damage involving civilians dying is ok. It's also a war breaking out in the middle east where goals and sides are not that clearly defined. So we will have lots of people dying in order to....what?

:facepalm

[Nick Young]

The civilians could vote to have people lead them who aren't blood thirsty terrorists hellbent on Israeli destruction. No doubt that would help improve their situation.

[Godzuki]

dumsby's back :facepalm

Israel warned them about electing Hamas to be a part of their government and you knew this would ultimately happen. thing is the only way Hamas can fight Israel is hiding behind Palestinian innocents. Can't blame Israel for retaliating when their getting rockets launched into their territory....

[bmulls]

It's basically a war where both sides have decided collateral damage involving civilians dying is ok. It's also a war breaking out in the middle east where goals and sides are not that clearly defined. So we will have lots of people dying in order to....what?

:facepalm

There is no reasoning with Islamic extremists. They want to kill Israelis simply because they are Israelis. I'm afraid this shit won't stop either.

[Derka]

The worst of it is that Palestinian and Israeli citizens will continue to bear the brunt of the losses in this conflict. Such a waste when two sides will never reason with each other, especially over matters of religion.

[Nick Young]

The worst of it is that Palestinian and Israeli citizens will continue to bear the brunt of the losses in this conflict. Such a waste when two sides will never reason with each other, especially over matters of religion.
Israel wants to reason. Israel gives back land it conquers in Palestine as part of a counter-attack just to be nice. Israel wants peace negotiations. The civilians in israel want peace. The Palestinean people are bringing all this upon themselves purposefully.

All they had to do was not nominate Hamas, all they had to do was not democratically decide to not give a terrorist organization complete control of the state. The Palestinean civilians aren't completely innocent here, they pretty much chose their fate.

[Nick Young]

Israel needs to stop acting like they want peace, so they want peace but still they allow settlements in Palestine and in territory that doesn't belong to them. Palestine has been occupied by Israel for decades, people like Nick-Young only use Hamas as an excuse..

It doesn't matter who the palestinians will pick, stop fooling yourself. Prior to Hamas then, the Israeli occupation was still a fact then and it's not only due Hamas..
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :facepalm
People like you need to stop trying to sweep under the rug and ignore the fact that the "noble freedom fighting" state of Palestine is literally run by a terrorist organization that the people elected in to power democratically.

I'm talking about Israel giving land back in the past. Learn your history. Israel gets attacked. Israel counterattacks and advances on Cairo. Israel feels merciful and gives all the land back to Egypt and Palestine.

Educate yourself, sport.

[bmulls]

Listen, I am not supporting Hamas, but you're acting like the situation in Palestine is all due Hamas and the Israeli government is this peaceful and loving government and that they've never harmed anyone at all.

Hamas got elected in 2006, so you want to stick with this being a 6 year old issue and that Israel didn't occupy land that didn't belong to them prior to that? This conflict is decades old and so is the occupation by Israel.

And if anyone should get some education it's you, your garbage is just embarrassing and it's just silly how you try to label Israel as something they're not and that you think it's all about a 6 year old election when the problem is decades old and so is the illegal occupation.

Israel left the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel's_unilateral_disengagement_plan

You and people like you who continue to act like these Palestinian "freedom fighters" are only trying to defend their land from big bad Israel make me sick.

They elected Hamas, a terrorist organization, to govern them. In the past week they've launched hundreds of rockets at Israel and killed civilians including kids. And then when Israel responds you act like they are to blame?

Get real.

[bmulls]

Netanyahu quote:

"The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war."

This is the bottom line. These Muslims don't want peace with Israel, they want Israel nuked off the map. There is no reasoning with these people.

[Nick Young]

Listen, I am not supporting Hamas, but you're acting like the situation in Palestine is all due Hamas and the Israeli government is this peaceful and loving government and that they've never harmed anyone at all.

Hamas got elected in 2006, so you want to stick with this being a 6 year old issue and that Israel didn't occupy land that didn't belong to them prior to that? This conflict is decades old and so is the occupation by Israel.

And if anyone should get some education it's you, your garbage is just embarrassing and it's just silly how you try to label Israel as something they're not and that you think it's all about a 6 year old election when the problem is decades old and so is the illegal occupation.
No I'm not. I never said that. You are just putting words into my mouth like you always do and making shit up.

Everytime there is peace or the conflict stops for a certain amount of time, Palestine does something violent against civilians to start it up again. It has been that way since the birth of modern Israel. Israel has never done anything as horrible and depraved as Black September in Munich. Israel doesn't send rockets aimed at Israeli schools and markets into Palestine every single day of the year like Palestine does to Israel.

Educate yourself sport. Look at the history of wars against modern Israel. Look at who fires the first shot, who makes the first attack, every single time. Look at reality.

Every single day Palestinean terrorists launch rockets aimed at Israeli civilians, often times they kill Israeli citizens but it just isn't publicized around the world. Israel launches a successful military attack against a Hamas terrorist leader, some civilians die in the process and suddenly Israel is an evil military civilian murdering evil bad bully fascist state of doom.

European press is biased against Israel, and it's creating a generation of European bozos like Millwad who don't know anything about the history of Israel and Palestine, who romanticize Palestine as a tragic ragged Rebel Alliance fighting against the Galactic Israeli empire.

[SCdac]

Hamas is a terrorist organization that needs to be thwarted. When Osama Bin Laden was killed it was met with applause and joy, but when the IDF takes out Hamas main guy they are looked at as aggressors.

Keep in mind that 12,000 rockets were launched at civilian towns from Gaza since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip a few years ago. There have been about 1000 this year, and over 130 in the last 3 days.

[Nick Young]

Hamas is a terrorist organization that needs to be thwarted. When Osama Bin Laden was killed it was met with applause and joy, but when the IDF takes out Hamas main guy they are looked at as aggressors.

Keep in mind that 12,000 rockets were launched at civilian towns from Gaza since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip a few years ago. There have been about 1000 this year, and over 130 in the last 3 days.
Exactly. Clowns like Millwad just keep brushing this shit under the rug, pretending it never happened, or worse, try to justify it:facepalm

[Nick Young]

Oh, "clowns like Millwad" but still you don't seem to realize how the number of hurt or killed israelis and palestinians look like.

All the attacks from Palestine the whole year of 2012 resulted in less deaths than palestinians who died in the attacks which Dunksby posted.about.

And you clown, I don't try to justify shit, go and kill yourself you sucker.
Every post you have made in this thread has been you trying to justify Palestinian terrorism.

[Nick Young]

Read what you're writing, first you justified the horrible living situation for palestinians in Palestine due Hamas being elected but Hamas got elected in 2006 and this has been an on-going occupation for decades.
You don't know anything about history. You are just blindly parroting what the European press says while refusing to look at history.

If you did, you would know that in the 90s, after the PLO finally agreed to a peace treaty with Israel, things were going pretty good for Palestine. In the Camp David summit, Ehud Barak offered Palestine 92% of the west bank, the whole gaza strip, and half of Jerusalem to be the Palestinean capitol. All this in exchange for one thing-PEACE.

PALESTINE REJECTED THIS AND STARTED FIRING ROCKETS AND SENDING SUICIDE BOMBERS AT ISRAELI CIVILIANS SHORTLY AFTER.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

There is no reason to feel sympathy for people who are purposefully sabotaging their own standard of living and happiness in order to gain international sympathy.

[daily]

All the attacks from Palestine the whole year of 2012 resulted in less deaths than palestinians who died in the attacks which Dunksby posted.about.



Then maybe they should realize they're getting their asses kicked and stop poking Israel with a stick knowing full well Israel will respond with a much larger stick.

[shlver]

Oh, "clowns like Millwad" but still you don't seem to realize how the number of hurt or killed israelis and palestinians look like.

All the attacks from Palestine the whole year of 2012 resulted in less deaths than palestinians who died in the attacks which Dunksby posted.about.

And you clown, I don't try to justify shit, go and kill yourself you sucker.
Which is what Hamas wants. They provoke Israel and fire from schools and civilian rich areas to maximize civilian deaths. They cry foul and gain international sympathy, Israel gets pressured by other nations and they concede. Hamas starts up again, rinse and repeat. They are doing what they can to achieve their goals and its working.

Angry Palestinians lash out at Islamic militants
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=20030519&id=ifAyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mwgGAAAAIBAJ&pg=6694,5907777

[Nash]

I love that even though Israel have killed millions and millions of Palestinians while only a fraction of that have been Israeli's died from Palestinian attacks Palestinians still get called terrorist while Israel are the good guys.

RESPONSE FROM MOD: This is an absurd, false statement: "even though Israel have killed millions and millions of Palestinians"

[GreatGreg]

I love that even though Israel have killed millions and millions of Palestinians while only a fraction of that have been Israeli's died from Palestinian attacks Palestinians still get called terrorist while Israel are the good guys.
"Millions and millions" of Palestineans? When has this ever happened?

[Nick Young]

I love that even though Israel have killed millions and millions of Palestinians while only a fraction of that have been Israeli's died from Palestinian attacks Palestinians still get called terrorist while Israel are the good guys.
Wow, good job making up bullshit and talking about something you know absolutely nothing about. The population of Palestine is only 4 million, and yet Israel has been killing "millions and millions of Palestinians" over the years:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.webgeordie.co.uk/geraldseymour/images/370px-MunichBlackSeptember.jpg
Shit like this is why Palestinians are called terrorists-they slaughter 11 Israeli athletes in the summer olympics and somehow they are "noble freedom fighters"

[jbot]

could someone (w/o being a smartass) give me the cliffnotes of what is going on? i don't want to google.

gaza is right next to israel but why are they fighting? is it full of palestinians or what?
who are the hamas?

[FatComputerNerd]

I thought Hamas was a food made from chic-peas eaten in the middle-east?

[Nick Young]

Why do you love Palestine so much, and dislike Israel so much that you make up bullshit to defend Palestinian acts of terrorism?:lol

[Nick Young]

Because you're full of nonsense and I don't dislike Israel, I don't dislike it's people and I don't dislike their beliefs or their civilans. I dislike theirabuse towards the palestinians, the israeli government that is, and you're trying to justify occupation and abuse.

And i don't love Palestine, would you say that you dislike Palestine and love Israel just because you're on the other side of the argument? Stop being stupid, standing up for what is right is not equal with loving or hating.
Standing up for state-sanctioned terrorism is what's right nowadays?

[n00bie]

Standing up for state-sanctioned terrorism is what's right now?

It's terrorism, but where is it coming from? Reports say the assassination of the chief also killed 9 people, including a 7 year old girl.

What would you do if that was your daughter / sister / niece?

[bmulls]

It's terrorism, but where is it coming from? Reports say the assassination of the chief also killed 9 people, including a 7 year old girl.

What would you do if that was your daughter / sister / niece?

If it was my daughter/sister/niece then I wouldn't have tried to use them as a human shield in the first place

[n00bie]

If it was my daughter/sister/niece then I wouldn't have tried to use them as a human shield in the first place

Who said she was a human shield? They fired a missile at a moving car in the middle of the street to assassinate that guy.

[Godzuki]

Who said she was a human shield? They fired a missile at a moving car in the middle of the street to assassinate that guy.


obviously the blame lies on whoever took the first shot, that caused the retaliation, that killed innocents. they're not going to allow them to fire rockets into their territory without retaliation, so what is the logical conclusion a reasonable person would reach from that? to stop firing the initial rockets, right?

[Nick Young]

It's terrorism, but where is it coming from? Reports say the assassination of the chief also killed 9 people, including a 7 year old girl.

What would you do if that was your daughter / sister / niece?
Why is a terrorist leader who knows the Israeli army wants to assassinate him, hanging out in civilian areas where children are? Why are these civilians hanging out with a known terrorist leader and murderer?

[Nick Young]

I consider Israel occupying land that doesn't belong to them and abusing palestinians a way of terror as well. Don't be a hypocrite and don't try to misinform people like your "Camp David" nonsense and with your nonsense about how Israel just wants peace.. while occupying land that doesn't belong to them..
America is illegally occupying lands that belong to the native Americans! GET THEM OUT! TERRORISM. White South Africans are illegally occupying land that doesn't belong to them! Send them back to Holland where they belong! The United Kingdom is built on Pict lands, the whole UK should be left empty in respect to the race that the English murdered and stole their land!

[n00bie]

Why is a terrorist leader who knows the Israeli army wants to assassinate him, hanging out in civilian areas where children are? Why are these civilians hanging out with a known terrorist leader and murderer?

Are you telling me Obama never leaves the White House?

[n00bie]

obviously the blame lies on whoever took the first shot, that caused the retaliation, that killed innocents. they're not going to allow them to fire rockets into their territory without retaliation, so what is the logical conclusion a reasonable person would reach from that? to stop firing the initial rockets, right?

In a perfect world, the rockets would stop.. but we both know that ain't going to happen. There will never be peace in the middle east. (Until 1 side is totally eliminated)

[Godzuki]

In a perfect world, the rockets would stop.. but we both know that ain't going to happen. There will never be peace in the middle east. (Until 1 side is totally eliminated)


yeah the situation is pretty hopeless

[bmulls]

Who said she was a human shield? They fired a missile at a moving car in the middle of the street to assassinate that guy.

Honestly, even if the IDF knew they were going to kill a little girl and fired the missiles anyway I can't blame them. They can't sit back and let Hamas fire rockets at them (and their civilians) without retaliating. They can't value the lives of their enemy's civilians over the lives of their own civilians.

[Nick Young]

That is the biggest load of crap ever, that you'd even make a comparison of something that happened hundreds of years ago to the occupation of Palestine only shows that you lack a lot in intelligence.

Another worthless try of you to justify the occupation, your lack of intelligence is so obvious. It's funny, you don't have any more answers after getting exposed with your propaganda nonsense about how Israel only wants peace and therefor you start to troll.. Big surprise..
The only difference is time dumbass. One happened 200 years ago. One happened 60 years ago. The only difference is time. Why is that such a difficult concept for you to grasp? People get taken over by other people. It's been happening throughout human history. Deal with it.

I'm personally still disgusted at Sweden's illegal occupation of Sami lands. It is shameful the way the illegal occupying state of Sweden treats the noble Sami people.

[red1]

In a perfect world, the rockets would stop.. but we both know that ain't going to happen. There will never be peace in the middle east. (Until 1 side is totally eliminated)
Sadly this is true, I know the mentality of the region and neither side will be satisfied with some simple compromise. At this point the hatred and self-righteousness is too deep on both sides especially among the older folk

[Nick Young]

Yes, and that is exactly why you're nothing but a stupid and ignorant fool because a rational person wouldn't write that nonsense.

We live in a modern era and I like how you use time when it fits your agenda, when it fits your agenda you refer to history between Palestine and Israel but when it doesn't you write incredibly stupid garbage like that. So if the arab countries occupy land that belongs to Israel NOW, will you in a couple of decades buy it if someone refers to the fact that the UK is built on the Picts land and therefor it's OK that the arabs stole great parts of Israel? Obviously no, grow up and use your brain, you're so incredibly stupid and ignorant..
When it fits my agenda? No, I look at history and time always. Looking at history makes it easy to see patterns and correlations. Bozos like you are moaning about this now, but in 50-100 years people will just accept that Israel isn't going away. The new generation of Palestineans will grow up, be sick of the shit that their parents have forced upon them, be sick of being used as human shields by psychotic terrorists from Saudi, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon, and do what they can to make peace with Israel and things will get better.


By the way, Palestine shares a massive border with Egypt. Why aren't their muslim brothers helping out the Palestinians and sending them aid? The answer is because the Arab world wants Palestine to live in squalor, because it helps them gain sympathy from idiot euros like you.

[FatComputerNerd]

IMHO threads like this should not be on ISH.

This is a basketball forum.

I don't come here to talk politics, and it's rather annoying. :hammerhead:

[bmulls]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/15/world/meast/gaza-israel-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

The violence is escalating, over 300 more rockets fired today.

[red1]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/15/world/meast/gaza-israel-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

The violence is escalating, over 300 more rockets fired today.
it's breaking news everywhere, shit popping off there with both sides firing rockets

[Nick Young]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/15/world/meast/gaza-israel-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

The violence is escalating, over 300 more rockets fired today.
Millwad. Hamas just claimed responsibility for firing 527 rockets aimed at Israeli civilian targets.

You are the Prime Minister of Israel. What do you propose that Israel does? Take the rockets on the chin? Peaceful nation-wide sit in? Send them hummus and try to make friends?:confusedshrug:

[Nick Young]

These idiots are aiming at Tel Aviv now, first time they've tried that since the Gulf war. Palestine is about to get f*cked in the ass. Hopefully the Palestinean people get sick of it and kick Hamas out of power.

[Nick Young]

Haha, so much nonsense.

I'll ask you again, if the muslim countries of the Middle East decides to occupy Israel, will that be something that you think that people from Israel and jews will accept and that they will think it's valid just because it was decades ago?


And no one is saying that Israel is going to go away, people are saying that the occupation needs to stop, how stupid are you really? And yeah, the new generation of Palestinians will be tired of their parents beliefs and they will team up with the Israeli's and make peace with them and accept the illegal occupation.. You're even less intelligent compared to what I initially thought..

And yeah, arab countries enjoy to see follow arab muslims in misery while the jewish nation Israel lives on their land while abusing the Palestinians. You know, Israel is the new favourites in the Middle East among muslims.

And you obviously don't know what it takes to cross the borders, what do you know other than propaganda and nonsense that's not true?
Wow. you're really, really slow.

[Nick Young]

What do you propose that Palestine does after getting abused by Israelis on daily basis while they occupy your land more and more by every that goes by?

I like how all this massive rockets very rarely kills Israelis while the Israelis kill on weekly basis while trying to make "peace".

There's two sides on the coin but your pride about your jewish heritage is making you completely blind. You excuse everything that Israel has done but you make extremely big deals out of everything Palestine is behind.
You're right, 527 rockets launched in two days targeting civilians is no big deal. I'm overexagerating the situation to fit my evil zionist agenda.

[Nick Young]

No, the only thing that's slow is how your memory won't forget how you got pounded and abused my the muslims you went to school with it Egypt, obviously their pounding and how they just punched you out made you the person you're today.

And you still haven't replied to the question, go ahead. If big parts of Israel gets occupied by arab countries, will you let it go in a couple of decades due how long time it has been? Obviously no, you're just full of nonsense.

LAWL I only got jumped in Egypt like twice, it wasn't really particularly traumatic, and I've been in enough fights in my life to not really let highschool shit like that bother me.

LOL Jews are used to getting unfairly shitted on for no reason, again look at history. The pattern is always the same. The people in power start to persecute the Jews, Jews move on somewhere else, and the empire they leave falls.

EXAMPLES: Babylon, Egypt, Spain, Germany, Russia.


And yes, I would let it go. It's stupid and pointless to continue to harbor blind and suicidal hatred against a government that you have no power to stop and never will be able to defeat in a million years. It is stupid to waste your life hating and being bitter about something you can't change. I sure as hell wouldn't waste my entire life launching scud missiles at Arab school children.


But arab countries are never going to "occupy Israel" in my life time. There's no need to thing about something that will never happen.

[Nick Young]

Yeah, Israel is getting slaughtered with those rockets and Palestine started it and Israel has nothing to do with it and there has been zero attacks in Palestine by Israelis forces... :facepalm

You're such a retard.
Well the rocket attacks were pretty much unprovoked, so yes, it's safe to say that Israel had nothing to do with it.

[LJJ]

Gaza is a lose-lose-lose situation for Israel right now when it comes to their international reputation. They essentially have three options:

1. Do what they have been doing for the past years: try and subdue the attacks by strictly trying to regulate the region from the outside, with addition of the occasional military retaliation inevitably leading to civilian casualties.

2. Loosen overall control on Gaza. Which is the "moral" thing to do, but will very likely only result in Gaza becoming more adept in their terrorism and ultimately resulting in larger scale conflict.

3. Invade Gaza and strictly control every aspect of every day life in the region (again). Which they could easily do, but would paint Israel as the big bad aggressor to every other nation and possibly increasing hostility with their neighboring countries.

It seems to me that they literally can't do anything right in this situation. What Israel is up to in the West Bank is truly disgusting though, there is no way around that.

[Nick Young]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgl0JnE4B_4&feature=youtu.be
Wow, this clown is just as delusional and uninformed as Millwad! The clowns of propaganda!

[fiddy]

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/sw50651ce3.jpg
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/az50669232.JPG

lmao

[Mr Know It All]

LAWL I only got jumped in Egypt like twice, it wasn't really particularly traumatic, and I've been in enough fights in my life to not really let highschool shit like that bother me.

LOL Jews are used to getting unfairly shitted on for no reason, again look at history. The pattern is always the same. The people in power start to persecute the Jews, Jews move on somewhere else, and the empire they leave falls.

EXAMPLES: Babylon, Egypt, Spain, Germany, Russia.


And yes, I would let it go. It's stupid and pointless to continue to harbor blind and suicidal hatred against a government that you have no power to stop and never will be able to defeat in a million years. It is stupid to waste your life hating and being bitter about something you can't change. I sure as hell wouldn't waste my entire life launching scud missiles at Arab school children.


But arab countries are never going to "occupy Israel" in my life time. There's no need to thing about something that will never happen.

Hm, I don't think that has anything to do with the Germans being defeated by the combined efforts of the Soviet Union, the United States, the British, and the rest of their allies in WWII? Stop talking out of your ass. Besides, they are still one of the most prosperous countries in the world today.

Yes Jews have been persecuted, but the establishment of Israel was, is, and will always be a monumental blunder. Don't kid yourself, all Israel acts as is a pawn for Western influence in the Middle East, and it began with the British Empire drawing out borders after WWI and deciding it would be a grand idea to put a Jewish state there. Now, the violence shows no sign of ever ending, and Israel only acts as a check to the Middle East (at least as long as the United States has the assets to fuel their war efforts). Once the United States' need for oil and power exertion in that region ends, or just dissipates enough, they will allow Israel to die just as they allowed South Vietnam to be swallowed up. Do not trust American self-righteousness to save you friend, all they care about is themselves, they are a state without principles (like any other state in this world). Though they love to dispute that.

Israel will not survive the 21st century, and unfortunately it's going to cost the lives of many innocent Arabs and Jews in the region. Western influence in the Middle East must end, and we've seen in the past that Jews and Arabs can live together in peace without the establishment of a such a state. But people like you, and many other fools in power in the United States cannot accept this fact, and they will continue to shed blood in the name of a fruitless cause.

[Celtics4ever]

Hm, I don't think that has anything to do with the Germans being defeated by the combined efforts of the Soviet Union, the United States, the British, and the rest of their allies in WWII? Stop talking out of your ass. Besides, they are still one of the most prosperous countries in the world today.

Yes Jews have been persecuted, but the establishment of Israel was, is, and will always be a monumental blunder. Don't kid yourself, all Israel acts as is a pawn for Western influence in the Middle East, and it began with the British Empire drawing out borders after WWI and deciding it would be a grand idea to put a Jewish state there. Now, the violence shows no sign of ever ending, and Israel only acts as a check to the Middle East (at least as long as the United States has the assets to fuel their war efforts). Once the United States' need for oil and power exertion in that region ends, or just dissipates enough, they will allow Israel to die just as they allowed South Vietnam to be swallowed up. Do not trust American self-righteousness to save you friend, all they care about is themselves, they are a state without principles (like any other state in this world). Though they love to dispute that.

Israel will not survive the 21st century, and unfortunately it's going to cost the lives of many innocent Arabs and Jews in the region. Western influence in the Middle East must end, and we've seen in the past that Jews and Arabs can live together in peace without the establishment of a such a state. But people like you, and many other fools in power in the United States cannot accept this fact, and they will continue to shed blood in the name of a fruitless cause.

That will never happen in the US. The US has too many powerful Jews. And that should never happen in the US anyways.

[Godzuki]

Hm, I don't think that has anything to do with the Germans being defeated by the combined efforts of the Soviet Union, the United States, the British, and the rest of their allies in WWII? Stop talking out of your ass. Besides, they are still one of the most prosperous countries in the world today.

Yes Jews have been persecuted, but the establishment of Israel was, is, and will always be a monumental blunder. Don't kid yourself, all Israel acts as is a pawn for Western influence in the Middle East, and it began with the British Empire drawing out borders after WWI and deciding it would be a grand idea to put a Jewish state there. Now, the violence shows no sign of ever ending, and Israel only acts as a check to the Middle East (at least as long as the United States has the assets to fuel their war efforts). Once the United States' need for oil and power exertion in that region ends, or just dissipates enough, they will allow Israel to die just as they allowed South Vietnam to be swallowed up. Do not trust American self-righteousness to save you friend, all they care about is themselves, they are a state without principles (like any other state in this world). Though they love to dispute that.

Israel will not survive the 21st century, and unfortunately it's going to cost the lives of many innocent Arabs and Jews in the region. Western influence in the Middle East must end, and we've seen in the past that Jews and Arabs can live together in peace without the establishment of a such a state. But people like you, and many other fools in power in the United States cannot accept this fact, and they will continue to shed blood in the name of a fruitless cause.

how won't Israel survive the 21st century? how are they going to be wiped out?

and what resources have the United States taken control of outside of our country. some of you keep pretending like all we do is go after resources in foreign countries so what resources abroad have we stolen and currently in control of?

[Mr Know It All]

how won't Israel survive the 21st century? how are they going to be wiped out?

and what resources have the United States taken control of outside of our country. some of you keep pretending like all we do is go after resources in foreign countries so what resources abroad have we stolen and currently in control of?

The same way any state gets wiped out. They won't have the resources or the will to deal with an enemy that greatly outnumbers them, especially without the complete support of the United States (We already see that waning with them so uneasy about preventing Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon). It will be a gradual process, and it won't happen in a split second. Many foreign policy experts have also predicted this, I am not alone.

The United States have consistently exploited third world nations who are rich in natural resources. Africa (Nigeria, Congo, you can go on and on in that continent), Middle East has always been exploited by the West for oil, that is common knowledge, not to mention US intervention in Central America where they have done incredible harm for their own ends (Installing of the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile to protect telecommunications interests for ITT is one example).

Of course it is not stealing or exploitation when you are writing the international trade laws that are stacked so tremendously in your favor and actually hinder development in these nations. But this debate (well, it's not really a debate to anyone who is educated about international economic practices of the developed world) is another matter.

If you think you have to occupy a country in order to exploit it, then you are very ignorant my friend.

[Godzuki]

The same way any state gets wiped out. They won't have the resources or the will to deal with an enemy that greatly outnumbers them, especially without the complete support of the United States (We already see that waning with them so uneasy about preventing Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon). It will be a gradual process, and it won't happen in a split second. Many foreign policy experts have also predicted this, I am not alone.

The United States have consistently exploited third world nations who are rich in natural resources. Africa (Nigeria, Congo, you can go on and on in that continent), Middle East has always been exploited by the West for oil, that is common knowledge, not to mention US intervention in Central America where they have done incredible harm for their own ends (Installing of the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile to protect telecommunications interests for ITT is one example).

Of course it is not stealing or exploitation when you are writing the international trade laws that are stacked so tremendously in your favor and actually hinder development in these nations. But this debate (well, it's not really a debate to anyone who is educated about international economic practices of the developed world) is another matter.

If you think you have to occupy a country in order to exploit it, then you are very ignorant my friend.


from what i understand our private companies do business with those who run those resources in those other countries, not our government. We pay them for it. in what respect are you saying we exploit them? try to be specific since i'm curious what you mean by us abusing international trade laws to get their resources. our dollar is worth a lot in those countries obviously so is it because we're not paying them enough in your opinion?

i was thinking more along the lines of us taking other countries resources like so many people imply here. what you''re speaking about seems to be more based on unfair agreements, but not us taking anything forcefully and claiming as ours.

[Mr Know It All]

from what i understand our private companies do business with those who run those resources in those other countries, not our government. We pay them for it. in what respect are you saying we exploit them? try to be specific since i'm curious what you mean by us abusing international trade laws to get their resources. our dollar is worth a lot in those countries obviously so is it because we're not paying them enough in your opinion?

i was thinking more along the lines of us taking other countries resources like so many people imply here. what you''re speaking about seems to be more based on unfair agreements, but not us taking anything forcefully and claiming as ours.

It is not just the United States, it is the entire Western world, and I don't want to start preaching on an entirely different issue but the information is right there for the taking if you want to view it.

I won't pollute this thread with walls of text so I shall provide you with this article on the situation in Nigeria:

http://www.pambazuka.org/en/publications/africanvoices_chap05.pdf

Yes, US corporations are a massive culprit, but acting like they are not acting in the interest of the Federal government in their actions is also ignorant. The overthrow of Allende in Chile in 1973 was a classic example of this ridiculous and corrupt partnership. The company ITT in the United States had a 70% stake in the market in Chile, and Allende was a Marxist who wanted to nationalize the industry. The President of ITT had a friend in the CIA, and with corporate and national influences they tried desperately to stop Allende in the election, which he won. Afterwards, they manipulated the conditions in Chile to stage a coup, after which dictator Augusto Pinochet took office. ITT retained 70% of their corporate stakes. And it is a point of contention whether or not the US was personally involved in the assassination of Allende (he allegedly committed suicide).

"Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future." - Adolf Hitler

This is the war the United States wages against third world nations and nations they have stakes in every day to maintain their tremendous power and influence in the world.

[Nick Young]

You're such a worthless troll..

You got owned in this thread and after that youv'e only come up with bogus posts. You came with the whole nonsense "Israel wants peace" thing which you used as pure propaganda a la trying to misinform people 'til I corrected you and then you went over the most silly argument about how other countries got occupied hundreds of years ago and how the Palestinians soon will forget..

Are you delusional or what? First you said that Israel wanted peace and wanted to give back Palestine their land which was a pure lie and then when you saw that your nonsense lies didn't work you went on with an argument about how Israel is going to keep it and that later generations will accept it..

You're delusional, stupid, uneucated and butthurt. This is like the time when I destroyed you and later you claimed that I was a jew hater and that I wrote racist comments.. I'm sure you're just butthurt over how you got punched out time after time by the kids you went to school with in Egypt and you've also expressed how much you dislike the muslims in London and how some muslim paki's wanted to fight you. Actually, the same thing happened to me in London but you hatred against islam is hilarious, you even made a thread where you bashed the Quran and acted like the Torah was on another level.. :facepalm

And you call mei uninformed but the only info you've tried to put up in this thread got complete shattered by me so it's the other way around, you propaganda troll.
The Koran calls for muslims to kill infidels. It has 109 different verses instructing in the killing of infidels. The Torah does not have 109 verses instructing Jews to kill non-Jews. FACT.

You haven't shattered any of my info, sport. You just call me names and insult me multiple times and either ignore, or completely fail to understand the simple points Im making.

I think the Koran is better than the New Testament, it is much better written, and wasn't manufactured by Roman marketing execs, but instead written by one guy which is pretty impressive.

[Nick Young]

That will never happen in the US. The US has too many powerful Jews. And that should never happen in the US anyways.
NWO Jewspiracy right?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Celtics4ever]

NWO Jewspiracy right?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

What are you talking about? There is no Jewspiracy. If you don't think Jews are powerful and influential people in the US then you need to look around. They strive and work hard for success which makes them successful in whichever country they live in.

I do agree with you on the Quran- there is pretty messed up stuff written in there. They basically want every non muslim to convert to Islam and have no respect for non-Muslims. I don't have a problem with Muslims, but I do think their religion is a little shady. Not to mention the fact that they are always trying to convert people all the time.

[LuppersGB]

When it comes to solving the Israeli-Palestinian issue there is light at the end of the tunnel. Just no one has found that tunnel yet

[PullupJay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aM0DjOC74zI

[yobore]

Pretty obvious that Likud and Hamas are BFFs.

Need people to ignore the fact that you haven't done shit for them and have made it impossible for them to interact with the rest of the world and live normal lives? Lob a few rockets so the bigger issue is the guy across the fence killing people in retaliation.

Need to make sure you win the election? Provoke the guys across the fence so security is the only issue.

[Droid101]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SJlqSJIWq_w/UKXLWA6NNKI/AAAAAAAA2Pc/pMqUaHqPhIA/s499/59436_153007674727952_3297327_n.jpg

[Mr Know It All]

What are you talking about? There is no Jewspiracy. If you don't think Jews are powerful and influential people in the US then you need to look around. They strive and work hard for success which makes them successful in whichever country they live in.

I do agree with you on the Quran- there is pretty messed up stuff written in there. They basically want every non muslim to convert to Islam and have no respect for non-Muslims. I don't have a problem with Muslims, but I do think their religion is a little shady. Not to mention the fact that they are always trying to convert people all the time.

Hm, sounds like...oh right, every other bloody religion which things it is the be all end all and everyone should convert to it if they wish to be saved or "chosen". Please, Islam is not more ****ed up that Christianity and they have committed no more atrocities than Christians have over the centuries.

[Droid101]

http://bokertov.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451bc4a69e2017c339220d0970b-800wi

[Godzuki]

Hm, sounds like...oh right, every other bloody religion which things it is the be all end all and everyone should convert to it if they wish to be saved or "chosen". Please, Islam is not more ****ed up that Christianity and they have committed no more atrocities than Christians have over the centuries.


they're more fanatical tho, at least around the world today muslim extremists are a major problem, even within muslim countries. even halfway across the world they try to throw their beliefs on others with threats of violence.

[Nick Young]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SJlqSJIWq_w/UKXLWA6NNKI/AAAAAAAA2Pc/pMqUaHqPhIA/s499/59436_153007674727952_3297327_n.jpg
:facepalm

[Nick Young]

Hm, sounds like...oh right, every other bloody religion which things it is the be all end all and everyone should convert to it if they wish to be saved or "chosen". Please, Islam is not more ****ed up that Christianity and they have committed no more atrocities than Christians have over the centuries.
Well, no every other religion doesn't try to force conversion under threat of death, like the Koran instructs muslims to do. Every other religion doesnt instruct in it's most holy book to murder non-believers like the Koran does 109 times.

Christianity has done alot of bad but I reckon Islam has just about caught up to them by now.

[Droid101]

:facepalm
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m933a4umsK1ruiv8h.gif

/I have nothing to add

[raiderfan19]

I am a Christian but I'll point something out on Islam. The religion is very very similar to Christianity(in fact they consider early Jews to actually be early Muslims) the thing is its a younger religion then Christianity. If you look at the respective ages of the religions, the crusades happened at about the same age for Christianity(1300 ish years) they will learn.

All of that being said, there is no reason to expect Israel to just take it.

And millwad/anyone else who mentions the 1947 treaty as the actual boundaries of Palestine, that's incredibly stupid. You know who refused that treaty? Palestine. The fought a war and attempted to create a larger area for themselves and lost and lost land in the process. This has happened several times throughout history. You can't start an expansionist war, lose said war then claim that the land you lost in said war is still yours.

[knickballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrtuBas3Ipw

[FatComputerNerd]

"Hamas militants have launched a rocket on Jerusalem - the first time the holy city has been targeted in decades - and the first such attack from Gaza".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20365074

[knickballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrtuBas3Ipw

:facepalm :facepalm

[fiddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrtuBas3Ipw

:facepalm :facepalm
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SCdac]

Palestinian citizens and members of Hamas are not synonymous. What's going on would be the equivalent of the Juarez Cartel sending hundreds of missiles into Texas, Arizona, and California. Do y'all really think the US would just sit there and take it? Regardless of where the conflict stems from, there are roads to peace and there are roads to war. Hamas chooses a road to war.

[bmulls]

Palestinian citizens and members of Hamas are not synonymous. What's going on would be the equivalent of the Juarez Cartel sending hundreds of missiles into Texas, Arizona, and California. Do y'all really think the US would just sit there and take it? Regardless of where the conflict stems from, there are roads to peace and there are roads to war. Hamas chooses a road to war.

Except the Palestinian people have elected Hamas into positions of political power. They control the majority of the seats in Palestine's Parliament. Obviously there are many innocent civilians, but there are also a lot of Palestinians who share Hamas' sentiment.

[bmulls]

"Hamas militants have launched a rocket on Jerusalem - the first time the holy city has been targeted in decades - and the first such attack from Gaza".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20365074

Would be hilarious if they accidentally hit the Dome of the Rock

[n00bie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrtuBas3Ipw

:facepalm :facepalm


Is that shit real, or was it just dubbed? :biggums:

[SCdac]

Except the Palestinian people have elected Hamas into positions of political power. They control the majority of the seats in Palestine's Parliament. Obviously there are many innocent civilians, but there are also a lot of Palestinians who share Hamas' sentiment.

I'm sure there are. I'm know there's alot of anti-Israel sentiments in the region from civilians and government alike, not just in Gaza or the West Bank. The point is, this is a violent, terroristic organization that denounces peace regularly. If you ask me, treat an organization like what it is acting like. Israel is taking offensive measure to ensure it's security, Hamas want not only their land back, they want the destruction of Israel. Even if it Hamas has the people's support, that should not be fuel for war-like motives.

[yobore]

Israelis have to defend themselves from rockets flying at them and absolutely in the short term the only way to do that is to eliminate the sources of them.

But whenever there are lulls in fighting, less rocket attacks, they do themselves absolutely no favors. The settlers are indefensible and so is the embrace of the status quo. As long as a solution is not found, more and more territory is occupied by settlers. They are relatively thinning out the population of Israeli Jews and increasing their land while Palestinian population increases in a smaller space. The result of this is pretty obvious the "security" issue is going to be more and more important and the "security" party is going to be elected.

The Palestinians in the West Bank have been remarkably calm the past couple years despite some nasty incidents with aggressive settlers. Likud guys always will offer talks with Fatah at the height of a cycle of violence with Hamas when they know that Abbas has his hands tied politically, you can't look like an Israeli lapdog while the Gaza strip is getting bombed. In times of (relative) stability when Fatah wants to move things along, Likud says "they're not serious they didn't even want to talk earlier." The right wing doesn't want a partner to negotiate with. I honestly think Bibi's dream scenario is to make the (relatively) moderate Palestinians so unpopular that the Palestinians start killing eachother again in the West Bank.

To sum up my stance:

The creation of Israel was a big mistake.
That said it exists and it should be able to defend itself when rockets come at it.
It will always be getting bombed until they get serious about peace and making life livable for Palestinians.
They can whine all they want about the world's public opinion, I will have no sympathy for that until they crackdown on their religious nuts and settlers.

[insidehoops]

Gaza Man Fakes Injury in Israel Strike, BBC video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-qSaHKzDaw

That's just a little side note.

As for the big picture, it's here:
http://melaniephillips.com/pallywood-and-the-stench-of-an-ancient-score-being-settled

[Patrick Chewing]

Egypt fires missiles at Israel :eek: :eek:


We're headed to war boys

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-rockets-fired-egypt-hit-israel_663502.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Derka]

Egypt fires missiles at Israel :eek: :eek:


We're headed to war boys

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-rockets-fired-egypt-hit-israel_663502.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

And I'm sure the Muslim Brotherhood-controlled government will flat out deny any involvement. :rolleyes:

[Nick Young]

Egypt fires missiles at Israel :eek: :eek:


We're headed to war boys

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-rockets-fired-egypt-hit-israel_663502.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Egypt and Palestine about to get f*cked up hard:(

[InspiredLebowski]

Gaza Man Fakes Injury in Israel Strike, BBC video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-qSaHKzDawStern's suspended him for three skirmishes.

You're honestly pretty disgustingly biased Steve.

[Nick Young]

Stern's suspended him for three skirmishes.

You're honestly pretty disgustingly biased Steve.
how is it biased, it's just reality. The palestinean people see international news cameras and start acting like there's a huge crisis and they're all mortally wounded. Hopefully this link will help you people realize you shouldn't fall for the bullshit pro-palestine propaganda that is everywhere.

Do you believe that Israeli date farmers hire palestinian children for 1 pound an hour and dangle them in the air on cranes for 10 hours in the desert sun, not letting them use the toilet? That is the kind of bullshit that is being said in London at the moment, this idiot pro-palestine people believe that is actually happening.

[InspiredLebowski]

how is it biased, it's just reality. The palestinean people see international news cameras and start acting like there's a huge crisis and they're all mortally wounded. Hopefully this link will help you people realize you shouldn't fall for the bullshit pro-palestine propaganda that is everywhere.

Do you believe that Israeli date farmers hire palestinian children for 1 pound an hour and dangle them in the air on cranes for 10 hours in the desert sun, not letting them use the toilet? That is the kind of bullshit that is being said in London at the moment, this idiot pro-palestine people believe that is actually happening.Honestly don't know. I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Palestenian. I just mean to say that a youtube clip with a jumpcut is nowhere near evidence.

[Pacers4ever]

Did egypt really fire missles to israel?

[Pacers4ever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrtuBas3Ipw

:facepalm :facepalm
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[eliteballer]

Stop shooting rockets and stop building on land that supposed to be negotiated. Why can't the dopes on either side do that?

[MMM]

Stop shooting rockets and stop building on land that supposed to be negotiated. Why can't the dopes on either side do that?

Religion????
All 3 major religions in the regions are using their beliefs to justify what is currently going on.

[eliteballer]

They are all supposed to be "people of the book". It's not like churchgoers vs a pagan worshipping cult.

Issues shouldn't be that hard to work out.

[D-Rose]

Pretty misleading for Steve/Jeff to post that video and for Nick Young to concur that Palestinians are somehow faking injuries and such. The truth is that many women and children are being killed.

But let me take a step back and look at this from a realist perspective. The root source of this problem for me is Hamas. Look, Israel is certainly not worrying about bombing innocent people or taking more land,etc. Hamas are the ones that are ruining this for the Palestinians. It really feels like this whole cycle comes about every few years.

What has to happen to EVER reach peace in this conflict is a stable and moderate Palestinian government. The people need to get away from terrorist propaganda. They need to get away from the dream of destroying Israel--it's only destroying themselves. The facts of the matter are that Israel holds all the cards. They have the backing of every important country and has all the military and economic capabilities. Is rocketing them going to solve anything? ever? **** no.

There has to be some sort of revolution within Gaza, a democratic resurgence led by the intellectuals and moderates of the region. This all sounds like a pipe dream but it has to happen. If there is a stable government in place ready to negotiate and put away all fighting...then Israel would have no more excuses for advancing on land or for not reaching an agreement themselves.

Until then, this status quo will continue on and on. Very sad, but reality. It's up to the Palestinian people to decide what they really want.

[RaininThrees]

Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.

[QUOTE]I don

[Godzuki]

Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/trapped-in-gaza.html?ref=opinion&_r=0


then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.

[bmulls]

then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.

[Blue&Orange]

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.
lol

The fighting between the Arab states and Israel was halted with the UN-mediated 1949 Armistice Agreements, but the remaining Palestinian territories came under the control of Egypt and Trans-Jordan. In 1949, Transjordan officially changed its name to Jordan; in 1950, it annexed the West Bank of the Jordan River, and brought Palestinian representation into the government.
Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan! :lol

[bmulls]

lol

Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan! :lol

#1, Jordan (and Palestine and Israel) were British territories prior to WWI. Transjordan was formed after WWI, Israel was formed after WWII. So you're wrong.

#2, what is the point of your post? To nitpick details? GTFO terrorist sympathizer

[Nick Young]

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.
So truthful. Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless:facepalm

[D-Rose]

So truthful.
Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless:facepalm

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.

[Nick Young]

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.
Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?:confusedshrug:

[D-Rose]

Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?:confusedshrug:
Yes, very real people. Including Palestinian ex-pats.

[eliteballer]

The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash

This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.

[Godzuki]

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.

if they want to keep their land and stay where they're being sieged, then they need to stop playing the sympathy card. people always bring up how many Palestinian women and children have died when they don't even address who is at fault for those killings which is the basis for those deaths in the first place. basically you can throw a rock at a hornets nest and they're going to sting somebody. a reasonable person would then question why that somebody threw the rock in the first place and blame that person. talking about how many people have died and are getting hurt is pointless to the solution.

theres a difference between other countries allowing them in VS them being forced to stay there because nobody else will take them in. thats not a choice. if they don't have a choice then i can't blame them. but if they do, then i have a lot less sympathy for people who want to stay in a war zone when bad things happen to them.

and if Egypt refuses to take any of them in then thats messed up. basically they're forcing Palestinians to be the human shields towards their agenda. altho i don't really get why other countries won't, even non muslim ones. logistics would be a mess but if everyone around the world cared that much reallocating 4 million people is probably possible over time.

[LJJ]

Nick Young is actually right on the money stating that the other Islamic states want nothing to do with Palestinians.


He already pointed out Black September, when the Palestinians attempted a coup in Jordan which resulted in a massacring of Palestinians far beyond anything Israel has done.

Lebanon actually has a bunch of Palestinian refugees from earlier conflicts. They have been there for decades and are still denied any form of citizenship or legitimate status. Same story essentially in Syria, although with Syria's current status it's become more complicated.

Egypt is known to far more strongly protect their border with Gaza than their border with Israel for instance.

[Godzuki]

This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.


i think it would be possible with the worlds cooperation. they could be spread throughout different countries where Egypt doesn't have to bear the burden of so many at once. maybe i'm naive to think that, but think of the military and aid groups from all over the world that could move/help them, and them being treated as immigrants. thats IF everyone around the world is so sympathetic to a solution as they portray.

[eliteballer]

Nick Young is actually right on the money stating that the other Islamic states want nothing to do with Palestinians.


He already pointed out Black September, when the Palestinians attempted a coup in Jordan which resulted in a massacring of Palestinians far beyond anything Israel has done.

Lebanon actually has a bunch of Palestinian refugees from earlier conflicts. They have been there for decades and are still denied any form of citizenship or legitimate status. Same story essentially in Syria, although with Syria's current status it's become more complicated.

Egypt is known to far more strongly protect their border with Gaza than their border with Israel for instance.


Key words there. As for the rest:


This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.

[eliteballer]

i think it would be possible with the worlds cooperation. they could be spread throughout different countries where Egypt doesn't have to bear the burden of so many at once. maybe i'm naive to think that, but think of the military and aid groups from all over the world that could move/help them, and them being treated as immigrants. thats IF everyone around the world is so sympathetic to a solution as they portray.

The general arab/muslim population wouldn't accept the palestinians giving up on a state(and the land specifically) for obvious reasons. That's not realistic and shows an ignorance of how the real world works. It's just as unrealistic as saying let's carve out an Israeli state from parts of Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona and move them all there from the trouble of the Middle East.

[LJJ]

Key words there. As for the rest:

For the rest, you give no insight whatsoever. You just ditch the systemic discrimination of Palestinian refugees by literally every Islamic nation in the vicinity as "uh, no country wants to take refugees".

Actually other countries DO take refugees. And other countries DO allow refugees to become citizens, especially if they have already lived in the country for decades. None of those countries want anything to do with Palestinians however.


And like Nick Young said, no opportunity is left untouched by them to refer to the Palestinians as "their Muslim brothers" and to point out that "All Muslims are of the same people". But when it comes to actually doing something for them? Gaza is right next to Egypt, but they haven't done a single thing for them other than speak disappointingly of Israel's treatment and smuggling in arms.

[insidehoops]

This article explains things with great perspective:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2012/11/some-questions-for-the-apologists-of-hamas/

The headline is provocative, but the actual article is good.

[Nick Young]

Yes, very real people. Including Palestinian ex-pats.
Lol why would palestinian ex-pats talk shit about their own countrymen?:facepalm

I dated a palestinian chick for freshman homecoming dance btw, she didn't put out but she told me some of the biz about arabs considering palestinians to be the lowest people on earth. I don't get it but so many egyptians just loved saying all these racist things against palestine whenever I would ask them about that place.

[eliteballer]

For the rest, you give no insight whatsoever. You just ditch the systemic discrimination of Palestinian refugees by literally every Islamic nation in the vicinity as "uh, no country wants to take refugees".

Actually other countries DO take refugees. And other countries DO allow refugees to become citizens, especially if they have already lived in the country for decades. None of those countries want anything to do with Palestinians however.

Please show me recent examples of where countries with already weak economies and social unrest have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees without having any problems and giving them full citizenship. Do you really think countries like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Libya are equipped to take in millions of refugees?

Also:



The general arab/muslim population wouldn't accept the palestinians giving up on a state(and the land specifically) for obvious reasons. That's not realistic and shows an ignorance of how the real world works. It's just as unrealistic as saying let's carve out an Israeli state from parts of Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona and move them all there from the trouble of the Middle East.

[LJJ]

Please show me recent examples of where countries with already weak economies and social unrest have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees without having any problems and giving them full citizenship. Do you really think countries like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Libya are equipped to take in millions of refugees?

Also:

These refugees have lived in Lebanon and Syria for decades.

They are already paying for them and they aren't going anywhere, but the refugees still aren't allowed to become citizens and contribute to society.

[Nick Young]

This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.
Egypt wouldn't want the highly educated Palestinians? Egypt can't offer even measly and paltry economic aid? One of the foundations of Islam is to give charity to your less fortunate muslim brothers. Why do they just ignore their next-door neighbors?

[eliteballer]

Here's the real problem. Israel needs the right borders/land to be assured of it's security, but in order for the Palestinians to have the land and borders for a viable state, it compromises Israel's security.

[eliteballer]

Egypt wouldn't want the highly educated Palestinians? Egypt can't offer even measly and paltry economic aid? One of the foundations of Islam is to give charity to your less fortunate muslim brothers. Why do they just ignore their next-door neighbors?

I can't tell if you're simplifying the issues on purpose or just a victim of your own stupidity.

[Nick Young]

Here's the real problem. Israel needs the right borders/land to be assured of it's security, but in order for the Palestinians to have the land and borders for a viable state, it compromises Israel's security.
That's not the real problem at all. That's just a childish oversimplification of everything.

[eliteballer]

That's just a childish oversimplification of everything.

Is that really coming from someone who wrote this:



Egypt wouldn't want the highly educated Palestinians? Egypt can't offer even measly and paltry economic aid? One of the foundations of Islam is to give charity to your less fortunate muslim brothers. Why do they just ignore their next-door neighbors?

:roll:

[Nick Young]

Please show me recent examples of where countries with already weak economies and social unrest have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees without having any problems and giving them full citizenship. Do you really think countries like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Libya are equipped to take in millions of refugees?

Also:
Egypt took in a bunch of Sudanese refuges in around 06-07, a few months before I left Cairo. Then they got mad and started shooting and gassing them with a SWAT team for some reason randomly, don't really remember why.

But if they took in Sudanese, why do they refuse to take in their fellow Arabs, the ones apparently being victimized by the common enemy, the evil Americans and Jews?

Why does Egypt completely refuse to help out Palestine? They let the Sudanese in, and they hate black people too. Why not let in any Palestineans? Why guard the Gaza border with tanks and soldiers 24/7, but let in the Sudanese?:confusedshrug:

[Nick Young]

Everything possible is done, from using the highest precision missile technology to warning Gazan civilians by mobile phone where and where not to go at specific times. As British army Colonel Richard Kemp observed during a previous round of this conflict, no army in history has taken such care to avoid harming civilians living in the same area as that in which an enemy is operating.

It is not only in Israel’s strategic interests to limit the suffering of innocent Palestinians in Gaza, it is in their moral interest. And here we come to what is perhaps the key difference between the two sides.



http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2012/11/some-questions-for-the-apologists-of-hamas/


Educate yourselves people.

I have also talked personally to a guy who used to fly helicopters for the IDF. He told us how his job in the airforce was to fly low over bomb target areas towing a massive speaker phone, warning civilians the place was about to be bombed.

He said there was still one time he'll never forget, it was flying over a school, and instead of civilians running away, they all started running towards the school, got on top of the roof and started dancing. he said there was lots of children and women on the roof and they were just dancing and screaming up at the chopper.

So a chopper flies over targets, verbally warning civilians to stay away from the school cus it's about to get blown to smithereens, and a hundred or so civilians instead just go on top of the roof, waiting to die.

He just had to fly away, knowing all those dancing people were about to get blown up, and he couldn't do anything to save them. Dude started crying when he was telling this story, and he was a big 6'4 Dolph Lundgren looking Jewish dude. Pretty disturbing to hear that story as a 14 year old.

Was that all propaganda? Was he an actor? was it an evil Jew lie he was telling me and my friends?

TO me it seems Palestine just actively tries to maximize it's civilian casualties in order to gain international sympathy and turn Israel in to evil bullying villains. It's a f*cked up tactic but seems to be working, as all the Hamas sympathizers in this thread can attest to.

2500 years ago the Jews were kicked out of their homeland by the Persians. 2500 years later the Jews go back to their homeland, and the Arab muslims cannot handle it. Before Islam even existed the Jews were in Israel and Jerusalem. While the arabs were just random tribes fighting amongst eachother, living in the desert, the Jews were in Israel, living in Jerusalem.


All this shit about Jews never wanting Holocaust again and then committing a holocaust of their own against Palestine is absolute bullshit propaganda. The only "Holocaust" is the one the Palestinians are fabricating against themselves.

[Nick Young]

'Next To Jews, We Hate
Palestinians The Most' - King Fahd of Saudi Arabia

"It's pure nonsense. Nick Young is making it all up":facepalm

WHO ARE THE GREATEST PERSECUTORS OF THE PALESTINIANS? NOT ISRAEL, IT IS THE REST OF THE ARAB WORLD

As Israelis and Palestinians prepare to visit Washington next week to begin direct peace talks, it's worth recalling what refugees the Palestinians are—in Arab countries.

Last week, Lebanon's parliament amended a clause in a 1946 law that had been used to bar the 400,000 Palestinians living in the country from taking any but the most menial jobs. "I was born in Lebanon and I have never known Palestine," the AP quoted one 45-year-old Palestinian who works as a cab driver. "We want to live like Lebanese. We are human beings and we need civil rights."

The dirty little secret of the Arab world is that it has consistently treated Palestinians living in its midst with contempt and often violence. In 1970, Jordan expelled thousands of Palestinian militants after Yasser Arafat attempted a coup against King Hussein. In 1991, Kuwait expelled some 400,000 Palestinians working in the country as punishment for Arafat's support for Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War.

For six decades, Palestinians have been forced by Arab governments to live in often squalid conditions so that they could serve as propaganda tools against Israel, even as millions of refugees elsewhere have been repatriated and absorbed by their host countries. This month's vote still falls short of giving Palestinian Lebanese the rights they deserve, including citizenship. But it's a reminder of the cynicism of so much Arab pro-Palestinian propaganda, and the credulity of those who fall for it.

************************************************** ***************************************


Mired in poverty: Palestinian refugees in Lebanon see little hope in new law
Some employment rights have been granted to Palestinian refugees, but they will still be unable to work in many key professions, no matter what their qualifications

Standing in the narrow streets of Shatila refugee camp, south Beirut, as battered mopeds speed past and electrical wires dangle messily overhead, seven-year-old Hasan Hameid is clear about what he wants to do when he grows up: "I want to be a doctor and to treat sick people."

But despite Lebanon's proclaimed sympathy with the Palestinian people, Lebanese law will prevent him fulfilling his dream with a long list of professions and ownership rights denied to the country's hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Generations of Palestinians remain mired in poverty in cramped, squalid refugee camps, and even those with an education cannot own a house or land, or become lawyers, engineers or, unfortunately for Hasan, doctors. Last week a shift in the law granted some employment rights and removed restrictions, addressing decades-old discriminatory laws that banned them from working in all but the most menial jobs.

Palestinians will be able to apply for free work permits, pay into a pension fund, and claim for work-related accidents – but there is no guarantee that employers will hire them, or how the work permits will be allocated, and they will still be unable to work in a number of key professions. Law, medicine and engineering require that a person join the industry syndicate before they can be employed. But a policy of reciprocity means that "stateless" Palestinians cannot be employed like other foreigners who belong to recognised states that can offer similar benefits to the Lebanese.

The law was greeted with scepticism by many. "I fix telephones… Thirteen years of study so I can fix telephones," says 39-year-old Ghassan dejectedly. He studied electrical engineering, receiving his doctorate in Lebanon two months ago. He is among the very few that have gained qualifications despite a lack of funding for education for Palestinians. But even with the new law in place, Ghassan will not be employed in engineering as long as he stays in Lebanon. He said: "Here in Lebanon there is no law, there is no government and nothing is happening. Forget the whole [law] – what's written and what you hear and what you see, forget it."

Ghassan has learned to be pessimistic. After decades of debate on the status and rights of Palestinians in Lebanon, and despite the best efforts of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), they remain severely impoverished and marginalised. Of the estimated 400,000 Palestinians living in Lebanon – most of them the descendants of those who fled or were forced from their homes during the war following the creation of Israel in 1948, and later in the 1967 Middle East war – more than half live in one of the 12 UN-run refugee camps scattered around the country. According to UNRWA figures, close to 60% of the Palestinians in Lebanon are unemployed. The Palestinian Najdeh Foundation estimates only 7% of working Palestinians have fixed contracts, 90% of which work with UNRWA.

Shatila refugee camp in west Beirut is much the same as the 11 others in Lebanon. Overcrowded rooms in concrete buildings suffer from poor plumbing and intermittent electricity; youths stand around smoking and tradesmen sell their goods on a dusty street through the camp. The Palestinian community was often directly involved in the conflicts that have plagued Lebanon, a contributing factor to the conditions in which they now live. But many point to labour laws that discriminate against Palestinians as the primary reason for their poverty.

The debate over rights for Palestinian refugees has divided lawmakers here for years. Lebanon's Christian parties constitute the largest opposition to the new law – and indeed any law that aims to give Palestinians in the country more rights – based on a fear that any such move would constitute the first steps towards naturalisation, or tawteen. Tawteen is a major concern for Lebanon's diminishing Christian community, who fear Palestinian integration would dramatically alter the demographics in favour of an already much larger Muslim majority. Palestinians deny they seek citizenship in Lebanon, and hold the right to return to the land of their ancestors as a sacred right.

Compromises over the draft law – which included Palestinians' right to own property – mean any tangible improvement of living conditions is unlikely. Nadim Houry, Beirut director of Human Rights Watch, said: "This law is a positive but insufficient step in fixing some of the underlying problems of discrimination in Lebanese law. This has to be followed up in terms of a real dialogue with the syndicates so they open their ranks to Palestinians. I think there has to be a real labour policy to encourage hiring Palestinians."

Hasan's mother, Imm Mohammed, said: "My other son is studying to be an engineer at the Arab University… and when he's finished what's he going to do? I said to him, 'What's the point?' He said, 'I want to be an engineer – you don't know what's going to happen in the future.'"


Read more: http://thehuffingtonriposte.blogspot.com/2010/08/who-are-greatest-persecutors-of.html#ixzz2CburOkhE
"He is trying to make people believe that the palestinians are hated in the middle east and that is why Egypt is not helping out. That is of course pure nonsense."



"It's time to end this and forever. It makes no sense to travel all over the world then Egypt, an Arab country, treats you like an animal."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/07/2012723164215172447.html

You don't have any clue about what you're talking about, so why do you keep spewing bullshit?

[Nick Young]

Haha, what a clown.

I don't know "jack shit" about this conflict but still I was the one who schooled you when you tried to make a claim that Israel just wants peace and how they were willing to give all land back etc during "Camp David"..

You lived in Egypt, that doesn't mean shit and you're jewish, nothing you write is things you back up with valid sources or facts. And really, you being jewish shouldn't make you this biased and stupid and it's not the fact that you're jewish that makes you an idiot, you're an idiot no matter what religion. All your posts are pure made up bogus which you never back up and when you try to mention sourcs you mention propaganda blogs, "Dolph Lundgren" lookalike soldier or you write pure lies about certain events.
boom. Well done, Hamas apologist. Let your true colors fly high!

I just posted several articles and quotes about Arab relations with Palestine. Do yourself a favor, read these articles, and teach yourself a thing or two about the real world.

Did you not see the BBC video of that fat idiot pretending to be injured by Israeli bombs being carried Paul Pierce style by 5 guys, and then shown standing up a few seconds later? That was also Jewspiracy propaganda?

[Nick Young]

Is an Israeli soldier who flew in the Israeli airforce in several missions over Gaza not considered a primary source to you? Yes if this was for a college paper I'd need to reinterview the guy and get some direct quotes, but this isn't a paper for university bonehead, I'm just paraphrasing a story he told.

None of the Israeli soldiers I met have ever seemed to "have an agenda", all of them thought the fighting was stupid, most expressed compassion for Palestine, not a single one showed any hatred, and these are guys who have had their friends killed by Palestinians. They still didn't hate the people because they know it's just a tiny percentage of terrorists f*cking things up for all the normal people. They say most of the Palestinians just want the war to be end and it's a vocal minority responsible for all the terrorist bullshit.

No one likes going to war, they all get drafted in to it.

Also they all hated talking about the war and battle stories, we were all just dumb kids who loved counter strike so we'd always ask about guns and stuff and be excited as if it was a game or a movie, but then they'd tell us stories sometimes and it just made us all shut up for the night.

Also, you consider the Huffington Post and Al Jazeera to be propaganda blogs?

[Nick Young]

Oh, so you being jewish has nothing to do with the fact that you're using BS sources, it has nothing to do with you trying to re-tell events in false ways, it has nothing to do with how you try to blame it all on Palestine?

I just posted several articles and quotes about Arab relations with Palestine. Do yourself a favor, read these articles, and teach yourself a thing or two about the real world.

You posted a blog page with pure propaganda.



Yes, one person represents all Palestinians. Just like this jewish girl who painted swastikas at her door when she was at college in a try to claim it was a hate crime and how she was a victim;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt5U7VcHw8


How stupid are you really, how can you even write a comment like that? So just because the person faked an injury it means that all palestinians like to fake injuries or get hurt/killed in attacks just like how jews like to claim their victims while they paint their own belongings with swastikas..

How can you mention the actions of one person and then blame all the people for it..

Al Jazeera, The Huffington Post and ex-Israeli soldiers that worked at a summer camp I went to are BS sources? It is a massive jewspiracy of propaganda right. Al Jazeera is nothing but Pro-Israel propaganda bullshit.

I never blamed all the people for it. But it wasn't just one person. It was the one person and the 6 guys pretending to carry his injured body to safety. They were all in on the bullshit. I never said EVERY PALESTINIAN ACTS LIKE THAT. Again you are just putting words in to my mouth.

Also what does one random dumb American chick crying out for attention have anything to do with anything? Since when does a dumb bitch crying out for attention represent an entire set of demographics 12,000 miles away and across an ocean?

[Dolphin]

There's only one thing that I believe we can take from this and I believe most people on both sides who can use some form of logic can agree on. That is the implementation of the Israeli state after WW2 has been a pretty big failure.

Now, don't take this as taking the side of Palestine and its supporters. I've posted on here enough how I don't believe there are victims in this ongoing war....but for that discussion you'd need to go back much further than the past 60-70 years.

But again, no objective person can say both sides warring since after WW2 epitomizes success. It's the exact opposite. Many are to blame. However, considering my entire point is that the implementation of the Israeli state has been a failure from the beginning, I'd point to the other western powers as being far greater culprits than most people shine a light on.

If you look at how the state of Israel was founded, you'd almost think that the other powers who brokered the creation of Israel were led by a bunch of children playing some sort of computer game for fun (Civilization?). "Hmmm....let's see what will happen if we throw these people here and....oh, that didn't turn out well....hehehehe."

My only question to those leaders and to you people is this: What the **** did you think was gonna happen? :confusedshrug:

[Nick Young]

Millwood is sipping way too much of the Pallywood bullshit juice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbmGv3LgDSA

60 minutes. Is 60 minutes an instrument of Israeli propaganda too, just like you claimed Al Jazeera and the Huffington Post were?

[Nick Young]

Criticize me, criticize the source, do whatever you want, but can you criticize the content? It's right there for you to see. Idiots faking injuries worse than footballers, staged set-ups, gunfire going in in places Israeli soldiers never even were, people running with bloodstains on their heads, going into a crowd and suddenly they need to be carried.

I never quoted any of the soldiers I met. I just told you the general gist of what they said based on what I remember. No quotes are anywhere in that story. Yes, you're right, if this was a news article I would not be able to use that as a source! Wow you sure are a smart one! I just said it because it's a personal anecdote I heard from people who actually were a part of the war. You can either choose to read the story for what it is, or deny it as propaganda agenda serving and completely fabricated lies made by just another Zionist rat who is part of the evil world wide Jewspiracy.

You are a moron.

You are just arguing semantics because you can't argue against the reality of what I'm putting in front of you.

You already called Al Jazeera Jewish propaganda. You called the Huffington Post Jewish propaganda.

The whole video is a lie right? Just more Jewish propaganda? How deep does this magical Jewish propaganda machine extend? Do you think Jews control the world too?:confusedshrug:

[GreatGreg]

:roll: @ Al Jazeera being Jewish propaganda...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Nash]

There is no reason to justify what Israel are doing to the Palestinians without degrading Palestinians to subhumans.

[Nick Young]

If I was flying a helicopter warning kids and civilians to get away from a building, and all I saw that my warning did was make even more people go into the building and start dancing on the roof, I'd feel extremely guilty and like it was my fault, that they were all dead. If that helicopter hadn't announced that, the people wouldn't have known to rush to the building.

I'd be traumatized by guilt. Why are you trying to dismiss this guy as a "big hearted" weakling now and trivialize the story as either not a big deal or a lie of propaganda? I think most human beings on the planet would feel bad if they felt responsible for hundreds of innocent women and kids rushing on to a roof, dancing to their own death. Wouldn't you?

I think there's something f*cked up about how your mind works, just based on your interactions in the past with Godzuki and others, I'm pretty sure you got some kind of serious mental issues. I'm done talking to you, I hope you get help in the future.

[RaininThrees]

I think it's fair to say that there is a significant amount propaganda from both sides, and at the end of the day, no one will win. It's just sad. Straight up sad.

[RaininThrees]

There is no reason to justify what Israel are doing to the Palestinians without degrading Palestinians to subhumans.

Money quote here, from today:


Israel Dep PM Yishai: “We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water”

[DCL]

israel is f--ked up.

palestine is f--ked up.

if you have a clue about anything, you'd see both sides are f--cked up as f--k. but right now, israel are the biggest b!tches.

[insidehoops]

Hamas, a suicidal death cult and the leaders of Gaza, refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel

Hamas cares more about flinging rockets into Israel than the safety and well-being of their own people

So, it continues

Seems like Israel will keep striking at Gaza until the rockets stop

[IcanzIIravor]

Hamas, a suicidal death cult and the leaders of Gaza, refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel

Hamas cares more about flinging rockets into Israel than the safety and well-being of their own people

So, it continues

Seems like Israel will keep striking at Gaza until the rockets stop

Yep. In the end neither side will win though both will find someway to claim a moral victory and things will go the usual route. In a few months something else will happen and there will be a new flare up starting the whole process over again. The world will fret, but keep their distance. Rinse and repeat.

[KingBeasley08]

lol at Jeff quieting people saying Israel isn't as perfect as he thinks. Guess what Jeff, Israel aren't innocent. Not defending Hamas because they are a bunch of idiots but seeing the administrator's clear bias is just funny as hell.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

as a muslim, i was raised to believe that jews and christians were people of the book.

polygamists (hindus and pagans) were the undesirables

lol wtf?

bet u the ottomon empire, the saracens, the sufis, the sunnis would all despise the muslim brotherhood

[RaininThrees]

Hamas, a suicidal death cult and the leaders of Gaza, refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel

Hamas cares more about flinging rockets into Israel than the safety and well-being of their own people

So, it continues

Seems like Israel will keep striking at Gaza until the rockets stop

Respectfully -

Hamas has blood on its hands. Israel does too.

Neither side is innocent in this.

[millwad]

lol at Jeff quieting people saying Israel isn't as perfect as he thinks. Guess what Jeff, Israel aren't innocent. Not defending Hamas because they are a bunch of idiots but seeing the administrator's clear bias is just funny as hell.

Jeff/Steve, just deleted every single post I wrote in this thread. Nick-Young was spamming pure misinformation in this thread, wrong fact and he used the most stupid of sources in his try to blame Palestine for everything iand make Israel look like they're perfect when the conflict is a fact due the actions of both sides. He even claimed that a soldier had told him that when he warned the Palestinians that they were going to get attacked the Palestinians didn't try to hide, according to Nick-Young a ton of Palestinians jumped on the roofs while they started to dance as a reaction of them being told that they were about to get killed..

Nick-Young who even claimed he used a source from Huffington Post when he actually took his propaganda from a blog called Huffingtonpostyadiyadi.blogpost.se etc.. And to make my point clear, misinformation by Nick-Young and him using the most worthless of sources in his attempt to push for his agenda is obviously ok but me questioning his choice of sources is obviously a major crime.

And he used a source from the zionist propaganda machine Douglas Murray but me calling Nick-Young out for it was obviously "way out of line" because I just realized that Jeff/Steve used the same garbage article from the zionist Douglas Murray in this thread. I don't know you and I can honestly say that I respect you but you're too sensitive about this. In real life you won't be able to shut people down and even if you think that some of us are way out of line it's not a good idea to just delete it, you can't hide from other people and what they believe in real life and nothing in this thread has been out of line other than Nick-Young spamming about how suicidal Palestinians are..

This will always be a conflict if not even random people like us can't admit that the conflict is due the actions of BOTH sides, Hamas is garbage but the Israeli government is also to blame...

And I must also say that I have in earlier discussions about Palestine and Israel been criticizing Hamas too little. They are garbage, they don't stand for anything that I stand for and their views on humans are in alot of cases disgusting and they are pure gabage. But this is still a conflict because of both sides, this is not a new problem and it existed long before Hamas.

[KingBeasley08]

yea Jeff you need to admit that the right wing in Israel (who are in power atm i believe) are not innocent in this

[bmulls]

Not agreeing with Israel's past actions is 1 thing, but trying to blame them for responding to unprovoked rocket attacks is just retarded.

You guys keep ignoring the fact that the Palestinians in the West Bank led by Fatah aren't shooting rockets and coincidentally aren't getting their leaders assassinated/about to get invaded.

Attacking Israel because they pissed off your grandfather is a cop out. If you want to work towards peace stop stirring up trouble and blaming it on the other side's past actions.

[LJJ]

You guys keep ignoring the fact that the Palestinians in the West Bank led by Fatah aren't shooting rockets and coincidentally aren't getting their leaders assassinated/about to get invaded.

This is false though. The West Bank is slowly but surely undergoing Israeli annexing; the presence of Israel in the West Bank is increasing on a daily basis.

Despite the Palestinians living their relatively quietly as you say, Israel is still consistently destroying any opportunity for them to live there in peace and with a semblance of autonomy. In a truly vile and deceitful way too, I might add.

Both sides deserve a huge share of the blame for their current activity.

[Nick Young]

lol at Jeff quieting people saying Israel isn't as perfect as he thinks. Guess what Jeff, Israel aren't innocent. Not defending Hamas because they are a bunch of idiots but seeing the administrator's clear bias is just funny as hell.
Millwad was going into anti-semite bullshit territory. Implying about a world wide jewspiracy of brainwashing propaganda. Explicitly saying my word couldn't be trusted because I'm a lying Jew. Apologizing and justifying Hamas action.

No one's saying Israel is perfect. I'm not. But there's a difference between criticizing Israel, and justifying Hamas. Multiple times this clown has said "What else can they do but launch rockets?" Justification of terrorism. Disgusting. In his little world, Israel's only correct response is to sit there and take it and do nothing while Hamas launches rocket after rocket aimed at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

[Nash]

Nobody blaming them for defending themselves but the response is way too big. Hamas sends a few rockets over and kills wooping 0 people while Israel responds by killing 66 people. How is that defending yourself? That's like a dude pushing someone only for the other guy to fu*kin' beat that other person to death. At one point it goes from defending yourself to a whole other thing.

[Nick Young]

Nobody blaming them for defending themselves but the response is way too big. Hamas sends a few rockets over and kills wooping 0 people while Israel responds by killing 66 people. How is that defending yourself? That's like a dude pushing someone only for the other guy to fu*kin' beat that other person to death. At one point it goes from defending yourself to a whole other thing.
Inappropriate response?:facepalm
Why is this so hard for you to understand. I'll try to make it simple.

Hamas spams out rockets launched at civilian citizens.
Because the rockets are shitty Iranian designed scudmissiles, they often don't reach their target. However, they are launched with intent to kill a large number of civilians. Are Israelis supposed to just brush it under the rug and forgive Hamas because these deadly missiles don't hit their target?

Because the missiles are so shitty, Israel is immediately able to identify where the missiles come from. ALWAYS the missiles are coming from highly congested civilian areas.

So Israel in response, launches their high tech targeting missile systems at the originating area from the rocket blast. Yes civilians die. It is Hamas' fault, because they are basically using civilians as human shields. Most of the time they are probably unwilling human shields. Yes it is very sad.

But all of this "disproportionate response" is nothing but BS. Hamas launches hundreds of rockets aimed at Israeli civilians every year, they average atleast 3 a day every single day OF THE YEAR.

If Hamas wants to launch rockets at Israeli civilians, ok, that's cowardly, but ATLEAST they should have the decency to launch the rockets from the middle of the desert where no Palestinian civilians will get injured, rather than in suburban neighborhoods where they know their own civilians are likely to die.

When did Israel respond by killing 66 people?

And Hamas are claiming Israel is responsible for the death of a little baby and a little girl, but like I've said, they've proven time and time again to give out inaccurate victim grubbing information to world news. Do you really believe these guys are 100% truthful?

And if a baby and little girl did actually die then that is horrific. It's really really sad. But again, it's the terrorist's fault for hanging out in the same area as those little children when he knows the whole IDF is after him.

Also when their children die it is the end of the world. When one of their scudmissiles actually hits and kills Israeli children, it is righteous victory and freedom fighting.

Let's say Mexicans in Baja start launching scud missiles aimed at the city of San Diego, launching out of a highly popular mexican Burrito truck. What is the correct US response? Take the scudmissiles and pretend it never happened?

[Blue&Orange]

http://www.thomaswilliamson.net/who_owns_the_land.htm


The booklet "Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict" by Jews for Justice in the Middle East states that "in 1948, at the moment that Israel declared itself a state, it legally owned a little more than 6% of the land of Palestine."

Robin Miller in "The Expulsion of the Palestinians 1947-1948, says, "Before 1948, Jews owned only 1.5 million of the 26 million dunams of land in Palestine . . . After the eviction of the Palestinians, Israel controlled 20 million dunams, an increase from 6% to 77% of the total. They simply stole an entire country."


/End thread

What's really funny about this... let's imagine for a second this parallel universe where Mexicans start to migrate to US in waves and then backed by let's say China and Russia, they beat the Us army and declare themselves a Nation and Americans are force to go to let's say to Minnesota and some neighbor states, what's really funny, it's the idiots here that are whining about rockets being launched, would be the first ones in line to launch those rockets :lol




The Jews of today claim to be the descendants of those invaders. The Zionist claim that the Jews were returning to their ancestral land has often included a corollary that the Arabs are later interlopers and as such not truly rooted in the land.

I just find it hilarious that Jews claim they own the land because they are descendants of the Jews that INVADED the land. :lol

[LJJ]

I just find it hilarious that Jews claim they own the land because they are descendants of the Jews that INVADED the land. :lol

No, they claim they own the land, because it's the land attributed to them by God. They have a divine and thus uncontestable claim on the land. That is the root to the problem, the reason why both sides can't play nice and share the country in a democratic fashion.

[Blue&Orange]

No, they claim they own the land, because it's the land attributed to them by God. They have a divine and thus uncontestable claim on the land. That is the root to the problem, the reason why both sides can't play nice and share the country in a democratic fashion.
I just don't get it why Mit Romney was pro-Israel, isn't he a mormon? doesn't he believe Jerusalem was in fact in somewhere near Utah or something like that?

Religious people :lol

[Riddler]

Neither side is innocent in this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfmWurRgmMM
Body Of Lies: Nobody's innocent in this shit

NOBODY.

[Godzuki]

Nobody blaming them for defending themselves but the response is way too big. Hamas sends a few rockets over and kills wooping 0 people while Israel responds by killing 66 people. How is that defending yourself? That's like a dude pushing someone only for the other guy to fu*kin' beat that other person to death. At one point it goes from defending yourself to a whole other thing.


its called deterrence. same reason we go chasing 9/11 bombers all over the world and other terrorists. not just to catch/kill them but so they have second thoughts of doing it again, or know they're not going to get away with it easy if they try. deterrence is really the only thing Israel can do to curb the rocket attacks, or that we can do to curb terrorist threats.

and honestly the people who take the Palestinian side in this give some very weak arguments. most of you seem to ignore who is provoking who to cause the deaths that you're constantly citing as some guilt trip, and the other half are trying to use history from a long time ago to justify their right to the land they're fighting for when the reality of it is Israel could've wiped out Palestine a long time ago and taken it. as others have mentioned history is full of examples where land is taken/conquered to this day. thats not justification to keep launching rockets into Israel territory then cry to the rest of the world for sympathy when they retaliate and kill 10x's as many Palestinians.

i really wish i could see both sides since i'd swear i was impartial but have to side with Israel for the common sense factor in whats presented, and who is provoking who in the current situation. if you want to keep using history as its their right to the land then stop crying when they get their asses kicked.

[Godzuki]

http://www.thomaswilliamson.net/who_owns_the_land.htm



/End thread

What's really funny about this... let's imagine for a second this parallel universe where Mexicans start to migrate to US in waves and then backed by let's say China and Russia, they beat the Us army and declare themselves a Nation and Americans are force to go to let's say to Minnesota and some neighbor states, what's really funny, it's the idiots here that are whining about rockets being launched, would be the first ones in line to launch those rockets :lol



I just find it hilarious that Jews claim they own the land because they are descendants of the Jews that INVADED the land. :lol

by your logic we should give american indians their land back because they were here first. reality is we took it, its ours now, thats the distant past, and we're living in the present. might makes right and its always been that way. survival of the fittest.

and yes we'd have to take it up the ass if Russia took over the U.S. and we only had a parcel of it left IF they were much stronger than we are and any help we could get. thats the reality of life since forever...thinking that way does nothing to fix the issue more than keep justifying the weaker side to constantly get their asses kicked.

[Godzuki]

There's only one thing that I believe we can take from this and I believe most people on both sides who can use some form of logic can agree on. That is the implementation of the Israeli state after WW2 has been a pretty big failure.

Now, don't take this as taking the side of Palestine and its supporters. I've posted on here enough how I don't believe there are victims in this ongoing war....but for that discussion you'd need to go back much further than the past 60-70 years.

But again, no objective person can say both sides warring since after WW2 epitomizes success. It's the exact opposite. Many are to blame. However, considering my entire point is that the implementation of the Israeli state has been a failure from the beginning, I'd point to the other western powers as being far greater culprits than most people shine a light on.

If you look at how the state of Israel was founded, you'd almost think that the other powers who brokered the creation of Israel were led by a bunch of children playing some sort of computer game for fun (Civilization?). "Hmmm....let's see what will happen if we throw these people here and....oh, that didn't turn out well....hehehehe."

My only question to those leaders and to you people is this: What the **** did you think was gonna happen? :confusedshrug:

i just don't understand why so many of you keep talking about whats already done and won't be undone, when it does nothing to fix the current situation. people always want to bring up the Palestinian deaths here to make Israel the bad guys, which initially started from rocket fire into Israel territory. theres a huge difference between who starts these between recent rocket fire to the retaliation that causes those deaths, than some history and mistake made a long time ago that is irreversible. its just crying over spilled milk at this point.

[millwad]

(Worthless insults and ranting removed)

[Dolphin]

i just don't understand why so many of you keep talking about whats already done and won't be undone, when it does nothing to fix the current situation. people always want to bring up the Palestinian deaths here to make Israel the bad guys, which initially started from rocket fire into Israel territory. theres a huge difference between who starts these between recent rocket fire to the retaliation that causes those deaths, than some history and mistake made a long time ago that is irreversible. its just crying over spilled milk at this point.

Because I don't see any plausible fix to the current situation and it has been talked about to death here.....so I'd rather focus on more interesting subjects ie. how the west was dumb enough to think this venture would be a success.

[insidehoops]

What's really funny about this... let's imagine for a second this parallel universe where Mexicans start to migrate to US in waves and then backed by let's say China and Russia, (blah blah blah blah)


You're badly misinformed.

First of all, it's 2012, and you're still ranting on how Israel actually formed. It's old news. It's done. Most countries on this planet formed with somebody winning, and somebody losing.

But as for what you said, that Israel "stole a country" -- that's just FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

Palestine was NEVER a country. It was a land territory.

80 percent of it DID become a country -- JORDAN.

"Palestinians" were Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. But Jordan banned Jews and got rid of "Palestinian" Jews that were there too.

Anyway, that's where most of "Palestine" went.

Israel + West Bank + Gaza is just the remaining 20 percent.

And that's old news. It's 2012 now. And 99 percent of the middle east is outside of Israel. And despite war after war after war from the neighbors against Israel, it's still there, and isn't leaving.

[LJJ]

Because I don't see any plausible fix to the current situation and it has been talked about to death here.....so I'd rather focus on more interesting subjects ie. how the west was dumb enough to think this venture would be a success.

For "the West" and the people of Israel "this venture" overall has been a resounding success though. I don't know why you think the originators of this plain would be unhappy with this outcome.

The state of Israel exists. It's the most progressive nation in the Middle East, certainly per capita the strongest nation in the Middle East both economically and militarily and the only unambiguous ally of western civilization in the region.

What's the loss? That a globally tiny group of people is being oppressed and denied freedom? I'm sure the good outweighs the bad for Britain and the United States.

[Celtics4ever]

(Worthless insults and ranting removed)

I don't care for either side, but how was what millwad posted an insult and a rant? I just read what you deleted and Nick Young has been posting the same type of way in the whole thread. Talk about supporting your agenda. I think both arguments should be respected.

[Celtics4ever]

as a muslim, i was raised to believe that jews and christians were people of the book.

polygamists (hindus and pagans) were the undesirables

lol wtf?

bet u the ottomon empire, the saracens, the sufis, the sunnis would all despise the muslim brotherhood

I always had a hard time respecting Islam.

[Dolphin]

For "the West" and the people of Israel "this venture" overall has been a resounding success though. I don't know why you think the originators of this plain would be unhappy with this outcome.

The state of Israel exists. It's the most progressive nation in the Middle East, certainly per capita the strongest nation in the Middle East both economically and militarily and the only unambiguous ally of western civilization in the region.

What's the loss? That a globally tiny group of people is being oppressed and denied freedom? I'm sure the good outweighs the bad for Britain and the United States.

Oh, from a strategic standpoint it can easily be seen as a success. I'm simply saying that when the state of Israel was being created, the leaders who brokered its creation would not have expected what we have seen in the last week to go on some 60 odd years later.

No one creates a state and says "I will be fine with seemingly unending bloodshed 60 years from now due to the creation of this state."

I think it's actually easy to separate the strategic successes and the failure that we see within the state of Israel (including Palestinian territory).

Israel is a great success for the West in regards to it's geo-political relations with the Arab, Persian, etc. states. Of course I mean how Israel has benefited the West's influence in the region, not that relations between Israel and those states are great.

However, I believe there is failure as well, and that exists within Israel's borders itself along with predominantly the Gaza Strip, but also the West Bank. And this goes back to my original point. That 60 some odd years later, the fact that what we've seen this past week is still going on makes it seem like there's at least a case for the creation of Israel being a failure at least in that sense. And yes, if there was a clear light at the end of the tunnel, I may have a different opinion....but is this going to end anytime soon? I simply can't call two sides so willing to kill innocent people to this day a success story. Logic tells me it's the exact opposite.

...but yes, it is clear some parties have greatly benefited from the creation of the state of Israel.

[Nanners]

I don't care for either side, but how was what millwad posted an insult and a rant? I just read what you deleted and Nick Young has been posting the same type of way in the whole thread. Talk about supporting your agenda. I think both arguments should be respected.

When Nick Young is the only person taking your side of an argument.... well its probably not the greatest argument.

[millwad]

I don't care for either side, but how was what millwad posted an insult and a rant? I just read what you deleted and Nick Young has been posting the same type of way in the whole thread. Talk about supporting your agenda. I think both arguments should be respected.

This is getting beyond silly, Jeff/Steve deletes everything that doesn't fit his agenda but as long as you share his views some what about the situation you can basically write anything.

Nick-Young was trying to misinform people and he also posted terrible and biased "sources" and I only confronted his nonsense and asked for honest and unbiased sources. And my last reply was mainly about the fact that he called me anti-semitic which is just offensive and stupid, he basically played the "jew card" and this is not the first time he has done so, once before he called me a "jew hater" and later he told me he was sorry for his stupidness. He and everyone else are more than welcome to point out where I've been anti-semitic..

Calling someone "anti-semitic" is obviously not offensive according to Jeff/Steve but confronting a poster after he for no reason called me anti-semitic is "offensive"..

[Nick Young]

For "the West" and the people of Israel "this venture" overall has been a resounding success though. I don't know why you think the originators of this plain would be unhappy with this outcome.

The state of Israel exists. It's the most progressive nation in the Middle East, certainly per capita the strongest nation in the Middle East both economically and militarily and the only unambiguous ally of western civilization in the region.

What's the loss? That a globally tiny group of people is being oppressed and denied freedom? I'm sure the good outweighs the bad for Britain and the United States.
Do you really think that Israel would "deny freedom" and "oppress" Palestine if they weren't sending suicide bombers in to Jerusalem markets and launching hundreds of rockets a day at Israeli civilians, and electing terrorists in to office?

Do you really believe that if Palestine wanted peace, laid down their arms, and gave up terrorist criminals to Israel that Israel would not work with them and try to become peaceful neighbors?

Israel did it with Lebanon. They did it with Egypt. They did it with Jordan. Why is Palestine different now?

All they want is peace. Do you think they like this war? Do you think they like killing Palestinians?

[Nick Young]

This is getting beyond silly, Jeff/Steve deletes everything that doesn't fit his agenda but as long as you share his views some what about the situation you can basically write anything.

Nick-Young was trying to misinform people and he also posted terrible and biased "sources" and I only confronted his nonsense and asked for honest and unbiased sources. And my last reply was mainly about the fact that he called me anti-semitic which is just offensive and stupid, he basically played the "jew card" and this is not the first time he has done so, once before he called me a "jew hater" and later he told me he was sorry for his stupidness. He and everyone else are more than welcome to point out where I've been anti-semitic..

Calling someone "anti-semitic" is obviously not offensive according to Jeff/Steve but confronting a poster after he for no reason called me anti-semitic is "offensive"..
You repeatedly saying "Jews lie to fit their agenda", implying there is some Western conspiracy of lies that support Israel, implying that Israel are evil bullies who enjoy murdering palestinian babies, and defending Hamas rocket attacks with the excuse "what else are they supposed to do?" and your overall continued support and apologist rhetoric supporting Jew hating terrorists in Palestine leads me to the conclusion that you are anti-semetic. Hate Crime organizations would classify these behaviors as the same thing.

[Nick Young]

Here is what history says:
When Jordainians accept Palestinian refugees into their country, the Palestinians tried to overthrow the Jordan people and started a bloody war.

When Egypt wants peace with Israel, Israel gives back Sinai to Egypt. Peace is made.

When Jordan wants peace with Israel, they make peace. Peace is made.

When Lebanon wants peace with Israel, they make peace. Peace is made.


History shows if you lay down your arms and make a genuine attempt at a peace treaty, ISRAEL WILL MAKE PEACE WITH YOU. That is all Palestine has to do, install a normal government and not blast rockets at Israeli civilians. Israel will even probably move the crazy settlers off the West Bank, just like they gave Sinai back to Egypt. it really isn't that hard to NOT SEND ROCKETS AT CIVILIANS.

[LJJ]

Do you really think that Israel would "deny freedom" and "oppress" Palestine if they weren't sending suicide bombers in to Jerusalem markets and launching hundreds of rockets a day at Israeli civilians, and electing terrorists in to office?

Do you really believe that if Palestine wanted peace, laid down their arms, and gave up terrorist criminals to Israel that Israel would not work with them and try to become peaceful neighbors?

Israel did it with Lebanon. They did it with Egypt. They did it with Jordan. Why is Palestine different now?

All they want is peace. Do you think they like this war? Do you think they like killing Palestinians?

Obviously yes. One only needs to look at the current West Bank to see Israel's intentions. They are taking the West Bank bit by bit, despite very meager resistance and aggression by Palestine. One of the differences is that Israel simply wouldn't be able to overtake those countries, Israel simply isn't big enough and doesn't have the population numbers to deal with that.

More importantly though: the difference between most of those countries and the Palestinian territories is that the latter has a much larger concentration of Biblical sites. And while probably the majority of Zionist feel that they should just let the West Bank be, there is a large portion of more religiously fanatic Israeli's who feel the entire bit is theirs decreed by Yahweh. And the former group isn't really willing strongly oppose the latter group, because the unity of the population is at stake. Israel isn't as stable as many people believe: strongly cracking down in West Bank settling -which by any means is what should be happening- would create a massive divisive ripple in Israel.

[Nick Young]

Obviously yes. One only needs to look at the current West Bank to see Israel's intentions. They are taking the West Bank bit by bit, despite very meager resistance and aggression by Palestine. One of the differences is that Israel simply wouldn't be able to overtake those countries, Israel simply isn't big enough and doesn't have the population numbers to deal with that.

More importantly though: the difference between most of those countries and the Palestinian territories is that the latter has a much larger concentration of Biblical sites. And while probably the majority of Zionist feel that they should just let the West Bank be, there is a large portion of more religiously fanatic Israeli's who feel the entire bit is theirs decreed by Yahweh. And the former group isn't really willing strongly oppose the latter group, because the unity of the population is at stake. Israel isn't as stable as many people believe: strongly cracking down in West Bank settling -which by any means is what should be happening- would create a massive divisive ripple in Israel.
You are stupid if you believe that. Israel was easily able to push to within 50 miles of Cairo in two days in a counter attack, and then turned around voluntarily, and then later gave back all conquered land to Egypt. They destroyed the entire Egyptian airforce WITH ONE ATTACK. They have defeated all surrounding Arab nations teamed up against them several times throughout history.

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, they would all be demolished by Israel if it came to all out battle.

So what you're saying is you believe that Israelis enjoy murdering Palestinians?:confusedshrug:

[millwad]

You repeatedly saying "Jews lie to fit their agenda", implying there is some Western conspiracy of lies that support Israel, implying that Israel are evil bullies who enjoy murdering palestinian babies, and defending Hamas rocket attacks with the excuse "what else are they supposed to do?" leads me to the conclusion that you are anti-semetic. Hate Crime organizations would classify these behaviors as the same thing.

Haha, what?
I have never said that "jews lie to fit their agenda", go and find something where I even wrote anything close to that. Go ahead, I'm tired of you calling me a "jew hater" and you should learn what anti-semitic is. You're totally clueless.

And I have never written that Israel are evil bulliues who enjoy killing Palestinian babies. Go back one page and stop making stupid claims, this conflict is due the actions of both sides. I don't support Hamas but people like you're doing too big deal out of Hamas and this conflict existed decades before Hamas even was founded.

I am discussing the actions of Israel, I am not writing about religion or blaming Judaism for anything. You obviously have no clue what antisemitism is and what one anti-semitic person stand for.

You don't even know how to spell "anti-semitic"...:facepalm

Educate yourself, I guess that I'm suddenly anti-christan as well considering that I condemn plenty of actions of the US. How stupid doesn't that sound? It's funny that you label people as anti-semitic just because they condemn the actions of the COUNTRY Israel.

[Dolphin]

You are stupid if you believe that. Israel was easily able to push to within 50 miles of Cairo in two days in a counter attack, and then turned around voluntarily, and then later gave back all conquered land to Egypt. They destroyed the entire Egyptian airforce WITH ONE ATTACK. They have defeated all surrounding Arab nations teamed up against them several times throughout history.

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, they would all be demolished by Israel if it came to all out battle.

So what you're saying is you believe that Israelis enjoy murdering Palestinians?:confusedshrug:

Out of all that LJJ said, you choose to point out that Israel has the military capability to take on any of their neighbors....ignoring his point about land grabs....but then again, there is no justification for Palestinian aggression and never has been. lol

I'm just curious, why do you always get such a hard-on when talking about Israel's military power? For someone as "peace loving" as you, it's weird. lol

[LJJ]

You are stupid if you believe that. Israel was easily able to push to within 50 miles of Cairo in two days in a counter attack, and then turned around voluntarily, and then later gave back all conquered land to Egypt. They destroyed the entire Egyptian airforce WITH ONE ATTACK. They have defeated all surrounding Arab nations teamed up against them several times throughout history.

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, they would all be demolished by Israel if it came to all out battle.

So what you're saying is you believe that Israelis enjoy murdering Palestinians?:confusedshrug:

They could easily beat the military of any those countries of course, combined even, but an enduring occupation and annexation of those countries would be impossible.

But cute how you ignore the bit where I posted:


More importantly though: the difference between most of those countries and the Palestinian territories is that the latter has a much larger concentration of Biblical sites. And while probably the majority of Zionist feel that they should just let the West Bank be, there is a large portion of more religiously fanatic Israeli's who feel the entire bit is theirs decreed by Yahweh. And the former group isn't really willing strongly oppose the latter group, because the unity of the population is at stake. Israel isn't as stable as many people believe: strongly cracking down in West Bank settling -which by any means is what should be happening- would create a massive divisive ripple in Israel.

If you know anything about Israel you know this is true, and this is why the whole West Bank settling is happening. The Palestinians did nothing to provoke it.

[Blue&Orange]

thats not justification to keep launching rockets into Israel territory then cry to the rest of the world for sympathy when they retaliate and kill 10x's as many Palestinians.

So why did you guys cried to the world for sympathy when the Muslims retaliated and blowed up the twin towers? :confusedshrug:


But as for what you said, that Israel "stole a country" -- that's just FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

Palestine was NEVER a country. It was a land territory.

So they stole land instead of a country, yes completely different.

And I quoted someone that based his opinion on facts and world history that everyone acknowledges, many of it from Jewish literature. So if you wanna say someone is wrong, please don't say it's me.

IT's old news? It's 2012? Survival of the fittest? Why don't you guys try to rape a women and when the cops show up the next day, you can't tell them, it's old news, it's been a day, survival of the fittest. And just because the cops don't show that doesn't make you less of a rapist.

I love how right wint christian idiots are stuck on the 15th century and then act suprised how people don't vote in them.

It's the 21 century, you don't take land, you give it, Spain, Portugal, UK, they all gave up their colonies, shit even the East Timor got their independece, US decides to make a beachhead on the middle east.

There's no solution? The solution is pretty simple, why don't israel give back the land that stole? Why don't they got back to the original UN resolution? The one that gave palestinians 1\3 third of the land despite being 2\3 of the population? The palestinias leaders already made their Mea Culpa and said it was a mistake not accept that deal, despite being a robbery on it's own.

Israel ain't leaving? let's see how they do without their big brother behind them. I'm sure Egipt, Siria and Jordan didn't forget the land that was stole from them.

[FatComputerNerd]

http://www.meforum.org/3121/jordan-is-palestinian

[raiderfan19]

Why the hell would Israel agree to go back to the original UN partition? It's moronic to think that would and even more so to think that they should. That partition doesn't matter. It was never accepted by Palestinians. As for the land of palestine being "stolen" when do you consider it to have been stolen? Historically it has been controlled by either group at multiple different times throughout history. So the militant control gained prior to the creation of Israel by the Muslims is valid but anything after that isn't? Foolish

[LJJ]

Why the hell would Israel agree to go back to the original UN partition? It's moronic to think that would and even more so to think that they should. That partition doesn't matter. It was never accepted by Palestinians. As for the land of palestine being "stolen" when do you consider it to have been stolen? Historically it has been controlled by either group at multiple different times throughout history. So the militant control gained prior to the creation of Israel by the Muslims is valid but anything after that isn't? Foolish

The Wiki article actually gives a pretty good outline of the situation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement


Even Israel's official, outwardly communicated policy is that the current settlement activity is wrong and against international law. The problem is that they don't actively do anything to stop it and actually do plenty to endorse it. That is the root of why you see people like me calling the current activities of Israel deceitful and disgusting. It would be one thing for Israel to state "Okay we officially oppose the Geneva Convention agreements now, we defy agreed upon international law and we will annex most of the West Bank". That would at least be honest. It's an entirely different thing to say to the international community that they abide by the Geneva Convention, they abide by international law and they really do want peace between Palestine and Israel, but then still proceed to annex the West Bank anyway. Which is exactly what they are doing now.

[Godzuki]

So why did you guys cried to the world for sympathy when the Muslims retaliated and blowed up the twin towers? :confusedshrug:

So they stole land instead of a country, yes completely different.

And I quoted someone that based his opinion on facts and world history that everyone acknowledges, many of it from Jewish literature. So if you wanna say someone is wrong, please don't say it's me.

IT's old news? It's 2012? Survival of the fittest? Why don't you guys try to rape a women and when the cops show up the next day, you can't tell them, it's old news, it's been a day, survival of the fittest. And just because the cops don't show that doesn't make you less of a rapist.

I love how right wint christian idiots are stuck on the 15th century and then act suprised how people don't vote in them.

It's the 21 century, you don't take land, you give it, Spain, Portugal, UK, they all gave up their colonies, shit even the East Timor got their independece, US decides to make a beachhead on the middle east.

There's no solution? The solution is pretty simple, why don't israel give back the land that stole? Why don't they got back to the original UN resolution? The one that gave palestinians 1\3 third of the land despite being 2\3 of the population? The palestinias leaders already made their Mea Culpa and said it was a mistake not accept that deal, despite being a robbery on it's own.

Israel ain't leaving? let's see how they do without their big brother behind them. I'm sure Egipt, Siria and Jordan didn't forget the land that was stole from them.

it wasn't 2012 when the land was given to them, or rather taken away.

i just hope you're not one of the ones guilt tripping Palestinian deaths every day if you're so unreasonable about a practical solution. since thats whats happening and most of the people getting hurt every day while some of you are so stuck on fighting for it.

and its not like it was an offer they can accept any time later now that they realize they should've taken it when it was offered.

[Droid101]

Why the hell would Israel agree to go back to the original UN partition? It's moronic to think that would and even more so to think that they should. That partition doesn't matter. It was never accepted by Palestinians. As for the land of palestine being "stolen" when do you consider it to have been stolen? Historically it has been controlled by either group at multiple different times throughout history. So the militant control gained prior to the creation of Israel by the Muslims is valid but anything after that isn't? Foolish
http://fasttimesinpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/four-panel-map.jpg

[raiderfan19]

http://fasttimesinpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/four-panel-map.jpg
So time started in 1946?

[Nick Young]

People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.

Why is everyone whining about this? Look at what China has been doing to Tibet since the 1950s. Do you think the remaining Navajo should be given all of Arizona and Utah as a nation of their own? Should the Iroquois that are still alive be given New York? Should Spain give up Catalonia to the Catalans? Should Canada and Alaska be given to the Eskimos? Does Australia belong to the aborigines? New Zealand to the Maoris?

What about Asia? Shouldn't it all belong to Mongolia?

Why are there black people in Brazil? That land belongs to the natives!

Why are there Afrikaans in South Africa? They should be forced back in to Holland!

[LJJ]

People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.

Why is everyone whining about this? Look at what China has been doing to Tibet since the 1950s. Do you think the remaining Navajo should be given all of Arizona and Utah as a nation of their own? Should the Iroquois that are still alive be given New York? Should Spain give up Catalonia to the Catalans? Should Canada and Alaska be given to the Eskimos?

What about Asia? Doesn't it all belong to Mongolia after Ghengis Kahn?

I don't know if you had some basic history lessons or anything, but the difference in this situation between now and hundreds+ years ago is that we as the developed world believe in basic human rights now. And that the only reason Israel was allowed to exist in the first place is because they promised to their daddy that they would place nice and abide by basic human rights.

No one is saying that the genocide committed by the Americans hundreds of years ago was a right, moral thing to do.

The only valid example you gave is China. Maybe you haven't heard, but most people aren't to thrilled with what China is up to in Tibet. Then again, at least China is like:
http://i.imgur.com/Ax9rp.gif

Israel is lying through their teeth about it, because they can't afford to lose the grace of the international community. But I guess you are right: Israel indeed is the moral equivalent of China, or 1700s Britain. The Israeli people are quite underdeveloped in that regard compared to much of the rest of the world.

[LuppersGB]

The only statistics that need to be looked at are the relative birth rates of Israeli families vs the birth rates of Palestinian families. Israel isn't worried about territory they are worried that rapidly they will be outnumbered internally as well as externally.

[yobore]

The big flaw in any Israeli moral high ground or claims of wanting peace are the settlers. The longer the West Bank remains peaceful in spite of provocations the less excuses Israel has to not crack down on their own crackpots.

In general, as long as Palestinians in the West Bank keep from firing rockets and still find themselves in the situation they're in, no amount of suicidal craziness from Hamas will convince the rest of the world that Israel has the clear moral high ground. The right wing has loved to use Hamas rockets as an excuse to nix deals with the PA. Israel has to be actively pursuing real deals in the West Bank regardless of what Hamas is doing, otherwise they're simply not credible to anyone outside Israel.

[Blue&Orange]

People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.
So it's ok to be racist? I mean it has a deep and rich history, going back centuries and centuries... why is everyone whining about racism?



:roll:

[Nick Young]

I don't know if you had some basic history lessons or anything, but the difference in this situation between now and hundreds+ years ago is that we as the developed world believe in basic human rights now. And that the only reason Israel was allowed to exist in the first place is because they promised to their daddy that they would place nice and abide by basic human rights.

No one is saying that the genocide committed by the Americans hundreds of years ago was a right, moral thing to do.

The only valid example you gave is China. Maybe you haven't heard, but most people aren't to thrilled with what China is up to in Tibet. Then again, at least China is like:
http://i.imgur.com/Ax9rp.gif

Israel is lying through their teeth about it, because they can't afford to lose the grace of the international community. But I guess you are right: Israel indeed is the moral equivalent of China, or 1700s Britain. The Israeli people are quite underdeveloped in that regard compared to much of the rest of the world.
LAWL we all believe in them but no one in charge follows them. Just look at all the "basic human rights" USA, Russia and China AKA the top 3 nations in the UN violate on a daily basis. UN is condemning things all the time as evil and still countries do it. The people in charge don't actually give a single f*ck about basic human rights, they just pretend to in order to keep the population quiet. Basically things are exactly the same now as they've always been, only there's a little judging international organization that doesn't actually do jack shit condemning it.

Silly Euros and their belief in the United Nations:roll:

[LJJ]

LAWL we all believe in them but no one in charge follows them. Just look at all the "basic human rights" USA, Russia and China AKA the top 3 nations in the UN violate on a daily basis. UN is condemning things all the time as evil and still countries do it. The people in charge don't actually give a single f*ck about basic human rights, they just pretend to in order to keep the population quiet. Basically things are exactly the same now as they've always been, only there's a little judging international organization that doesn't actually do jack shit condemning it.

Silly Euros and their belief in the United Nations:roll:


So we understand each other then.

Just a second ago you were crying that the Israel didn't enjoy hurting the Palestinians and that peace was possible if only the Palestinians cooperated and Israel is doing everything it can to ensure peace.

And now you agree with me that Israel doesn't give a **** about the Palestinians and doesn't give a **** about peace. Essentially now you agree that Israel is exactly the vile, piece of shit country people in this country have been saying it is. What are you arguing in this thread for then. Lol.

[insidehoops]

So they stole land instead of a country, yes completely different.


No, Israel didn't "steal" land, either. The countries that surround Israel kept making war after war after war trying to wipe Israel out, and kept losing the wars. Whoops.

As for "refugees," there were 700something thousand Arab refugees from Israel, but there were also about one million Jewish refugees from Arab countries, and most of them now live in Israel.

So that's that.

[insidehoops]

(MAPS)


Wow, again, it's 2012, yet we still have people trying to "prove" that Israel is wrong for even existing. It's not the 1940's anymore.

Anyway, the problem with the maps droid101 posted:

1) Time didn't start in 1946 or 1948. 80 percent of Palestine was removed already and became Jordan. These maps ignore that.

2) It was the countries that surround Israel that kept making war against Israel, and lost the wars, and kept losing land. These maps don't mention that.

3) Israel didn't control the land outside of Israel between 1948 and 1967. The Palestinian side CHOSE NOT TO FORM A STATE. Why wan't a Palestinian state formed between 1948 and 1967? Answer: Because the people who surrounded Israel didn't want one. They just kept attacking Israel.

4) These maps also neglect to mention that one million Jewish people were refugees from the entire Arab world, and they had nowhere to go and wound up going to Israel.

I can go on, but again, it's 2012 now, not the 1940's.

[insidehoops]

Furthermore, for an even better map, look at the entire Middle East, notice that Israel (less than 1 percent) is so tiny you can barely even see it, and then wonder why that entire region of the world keeps trying to make it even smaller

[insidehoops]

Israel ain't leaving? let's see how they do without their big brother behind them. I'm sure Egipt, Siria and Jordan didn't forget the land that was stole from them.

Correct, Israel isn't leaving.

Sorry that this concept is so confusing/upsetting, that Israel plans to continue to exist, and to protect itself.

As for what you're saying, you don't even know what you're talking about. Israel actually gave back the only land they had from Egypt that Egypt wanted decades ago, the Sinai desert.

Jordan hadn't lost any land to Israel that they want back, either.

Syria does want the Golan Heights from Israel, but as I presume you've noticed, Syria has killed about 35,000 Arabs this year and isn't exactly led by the kind of people you do any favors for.

[Nick Young]

So we understand each other then.

Just a second ago you were crying that the Israel didn't enjoy hurting the Palestinians and that peace was possible if only the Palestinians cooperated and Israel is doing everything it can to ensure peace.

And now you agree with me that Israel doesn't give a **** about the Palestinians and doesn't give a **** about peace. Essentially now you agree that Israel is exactly the vile, piece of shit country people in this country have been saying it is. What are you arguing in this thread for then. Lol.
not really. Thanks for spewing another load of bullshit:applause:

[insidehoops]

The obsession with trying to make Israel smaller is pretty insane.

Go look at a map of the entire region.

[insidehoops]

The exchange between LJJ and Nick Young sorta makes no sense. Arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Dolphin]

The exchange between LJJ and Nick Young sorta makes no sense. Arguing for the sake of arguing.

Logic has never been Nick Young's strong suit, eh? :roll:

[GreatGreg]

No, Israel didn't "steal" land, either. The countries that surround Israel kept making war after war after war trying to wipe Israel out, and kept losing the wars. Whoops.

As for "refugees," there were 700something thousand Arab refugees from Israel, but there were also about one million Jewish refugees from Arab countries, and most of them now live in Israel.

So that's that.
Exactly. You can't "steal" something that never belonged to someone else.
They(Arabs) brutally lost the wars, they have to deal with the consequences, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

[Nanners]

Logic has never been Nick Young's strong suit, eh? :roll:

seriously. when has nick young ever argued for anything other than the sake of arguing?

after all these years, why would anybody expect his arguments to suddenly make sense? :oldlol:

[LJJ]

not really. Thanks for spewing another load of bullshit:applause:

Human rights isn't bullshit. Israel going against the Geneva convention and international law isn't bullshit. It's sad to me when ordinary people are in a bad condition because of religious nutjobs and macro-politics. I guess not for everybody.


But I understand. I have argued against the atrocities the Palestinians commit as well as the atrocities Israel commits. Some people have such an ingrained sense of partisanship that they can only recognize when one side does evil, but not the other.

[Blue&Orange]

2) It was the countries that surround Israel that kept making war against Israel, and lost the wars, and kept losing land. These maps don't mention that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War#Allegations_of_military_support_from_the_U .S..2C_UK_and_Soviet_Union


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html

No agenda there

[millwad]

People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.

Why is everyone whining about this? Look at what China has been doing to Tibet since the 1950s. Do you think the remaining Navajo should be given all of Arizona and Utah as a nation of their own? Should the Iroquois that are still alive be given New York? Should Spain give up Catalonia to the Catalans? Should Canada and Alaska be given to the Eskimos? Does Australia belong to the aborigines? New Zealand to the Maoris?

What about Asia? Shouldn't it all belong to Mongolia?

Why are there black people in Brazil? That land belongs to the natives!

Why are there Afrikaans in South Africa? They should be forced back in to Holland!

This is why people have no respect for you, when people use the time aspect in this matter when they criticize the fact that Israel is occupying land that doesn't belong to them you write nonsense like the stuff above.

But on the other hand, when it fits your agenda you're more than willing to go 2500 years back in history just to make your points valid, in this case justifying the occupation.. How does following text from you in this thread even makes sense when you also write the stuff like above when it doesn't fit agenda? So going back some 50 years back in history to make a case for the Palestinians is way out of line but when defending Israel you're more than willing to go 2500 years back in time a la;



2500 years ago the Jews were kicked out of their homeland by the Persians. 2500 years later the Jews go back to their homeland, and the Arab muslims cannot handle it. Before Islam even existed the Jews were in Israel and Jerusalem. While the arabs were just random tribes fighting amongst eachother, living in the desert, the Jews were in Israel, living in Jerusalem.

[insidehoops]

Insane Hamas refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel, even if it means Gaza getting badly messed up as a result

That's what happens when a suicidal death cult are X's leaders. They happily volunteer X for suicide.

Oh well.

[Riddler]

Nobody's innocent in this shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfmWurRgmMM)

[Celtics4ever]

Insane Hamas refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel, even if it means Gaza getting badly messed up as a result

That's what happens when a suicidal death cult are X's leaders. They happily volunteer X for suicide.

Oh well.

Amazing how Muslim terrorists are the only ones willing to do suicide bombings. Unless I'm missing out on something. Talk about being brainwashed by their religion.

[MMM]

Amazing how Muslim terrorists are the only ones willing to do suicide bombings. Unless I'm missing out on something. Talk about being brainwashed by their religion.

suicide is a mortal sin in the religion though and Jihad(holy struggle) does not simply mean killing people. As for them being brainwashed the same thing could be said about most religious people.

[bmulls]

suicide is a mortal sin in the religion though and Jihad(holy struggle) does not simply mean killing people. As for them being brainwashed the same thing could be said about most religious people.

Convincing people to be proud of killing themselves is a whole new level of brainwashing. Like in America kids want to be astronauts and NFL players when they grow up. These kids want to be suicide bombers. It's crazy.

[MMM]

Convincing people to be proud of killing themselves is a whole new level of brainwashing. Like in America kids want to be astronauts and NFL players when they grow up. These kids want to be suicide bombers. It's crazy.

These kids don't want to be suicide bombers nor would i think they are proud but they've been tricked/brainwashed by people who are too cowardly to die for what they believe in. So they get kids in desperate situations to do it by promising them they will take care of their families.

[Godzuki]

suicide is a mortal sin in the religion though and Jihad(holy struggle) does not simply mean killing people. As for them being brainwashed the same thing could be said about most religious people.


then you must be reading a different interpretation of their religion than the fundamentalists. their fanatical belief is what justifies them to blow themselves up for their cause with promises of a rewarding afterlife.

[yobore]

Ceasefire deal reached for tonight

[Nick Young]

Wow, my university is gonna have a Q&A live video feed with students in gaza. Gonna check it out, will be really good to see AN ACTUAL KID LIVING IN GAZA'S PERSPECTIVE rather than bullshit news feeds.

Might ask if it's true that people sometimes act up injured for the cameras, like in those Pallywood videos. Gotta find a way to word it delicately.

My uni has a huge Muslim and Free Palestine society but all of them I've talked to are actually really really rational and calm people, who ask alot of questions about Judaism and loads of them I've even had the discussion about how Judaism and Islam are so similar, and how the Arab golden age with Maimonides every religion got along, and they agreed, haven't really run in to any psychos like the Hamas apologists on ISH or the people who are mass protesting the Israeli dance reviews here in London as "extensions of the occupation"


Arab golden age was an awesome time in human history, real muslims like Saladin were Arab leaders back then, now they just keep electing terrorists. Shit.

[Derka]

suicide is a mortal sin in the religion though and Jihad(holy struggle) does not simply mean killing people. As for them being brainwashed the same thing could be said about most religious people.

Islam hasn't worked under a "it says this in the Qu'ran, therefore it is" kind of system in centuries in most parts of the world. Absolutism left Islam behind long ago.

Everything in the Qu'ran is subject to interpretation by imams and mullahs of hundreds of different persuasions. They more or less they get to tell adherents what parts of Holy Qu'ran do and don't matter and its entirely dependent on the interpreter's opinion. Furthermore, believers aren't allowed to question these guys

Yeah, Muhammad said that suicide is not good in the eyes of Allah, but that doesn't matter to a child whose local imam tells him that the prophet also says he should devote himself body and soul to the struggle for Islam and uses THAT interpretation to twist suicide bombing into a legitimate course of action.

Fuse that kind of influence with the abject conditions that a lot of these people come from...you get sanctioned suicide bombers.

[MMM]

Islam hasn't worked under a "it says this in the Qu'ran, therefore it is" kind of system in centuries in most parts of the world. Absolutism left Islam behind long ago.

Everything in the Qu'ran is subject to interpretation by imams and mullahs of hundreds of different persuasions. They more or less they get to tell adherents what parts of Holy Qu'ran do and don't matter and its entirely dependent on the interpreter's opinion. Furthermore, believers aren't allowed to question these guys

Yeah, Muhammad said that suicide is not good in the eyes of Allah, but that doesn't matter to a child whose local imam tells him that the prophet also says he should devote himself body and soul to the struggle for Islam and uses THAT interpretation to twist suicide bombing into a legitimate course of action.

Fuse that kind of influence with the abject conditions that a lot of these people come from...you get sanctioned suicide bombers.

And the prophet is supposed to be the example that was set. If these people want to fight the Israelis then there should be a honorable way of doing it and not brainwashing children who mostly come from poverty.

[MMM]

Wow, my university is gonna have a Q&A live video feed with students in gaza. Gonna check it out, will be really good to see AN ACTUAL KID LIVING IN GAZA'S PERSPECTIVE rather than bullshit news feeds.

Might ask if it's true that people sometimes act up injured for the cameras, like in those Pallywood videos. Gotta find a way to word it delicately.

My uni has a huge Muslim and Free Palestine society but all of them I've talked to are actually really really rational and calm people, who ask alot of questions about Judaism and loads of them I've even had the discussion about how Judaism and Islam are so similar, and how the Arab golden age with Maimonides every religion got along, and they agreed, haven't really run in to any psychos like the Hamas apologists on ISH or the people who are mass protesting the Israeli dance reviews here in London as "extensions of the occupation"


Arab golden age was an awesome time in human history, real muslims like Saladin were Arab leaders back then, now they just keep electing terrorists. Shit.

Arabs benefited greatly from the pilgrimage, so knowledge could flow from the far East to northern Africa. Scholarly cities like Timbuktu, Harar, Bagdad, etc. as centers of learning popped up and there was a great thirst for knowledge. Fast forward to today and we can see that progress has halted among most religions but especially in the Arab culture. The Arabization of Islam is something that concerns me especially in Africa. In Somalia were seeing a conservative brand of Islam that has no roots in out culture and in West Africa we have ancient libraries being put at risk in Mali due to this arab influence.

[DCL]

when i visited lebanon a couple years ago, i remember passing by something that looked like a ghetto flea market. when we stopped at a nearby gas station for a piss break, our tour guide said that area wasn't a local flea market, but actually a camp for palestinian refuges who had nowhere to go when they lost their land. the refuges were living in dirty tents. pretty horrible conditions like a sh!t hole. they've been there for several decades too, and they pretty much live as 5th class citizens. by law, they aren't allowed to get regular jobs, and their children, even if born in lebanon, are forever recognized as refuges only and do not have much rights at all. needless to say, it's a pretty f--ked up social and economic condition. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to observe why some of them are so pissed off and pushed off the edge.

[Nick Young]

when i visited lebanon a couple years ago, i remember passing by something that looked like a ghetto flea market. when we stopped at a nearby gas station for a piss break, our tour guide said that area wasn't a local flea market, but actually a camp for palestinian refuges who had nowhere to go when they lost their land. the refuges were living in dirty tents. pretty horrible conditions like a sh!t hole. they've been there for several decades too, and they pretty much live as 5th class citizens. by law, they aren't allowed to get regular jobs, and their children, even if born in lebanon, are forever recognized as refuges only and do not have much rights at all. needless to say, it's a pretty f--ked up social and economic condition. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to observe why some of them are so pissed off and pushed off the edge.
And Israel is responsible for the way Lebanon treats them?:confusedshrug:

[DCL]

And Israel is responsible for the way Lebanon treats them?:confusedshrug:


did i say that?

you ask wrong questions.

ask why do they have to be refuges in the first place.

[FatComputerNerd]

Why did the Mufti work w/ Germany during WWII?

Why did Palestinian nationalism not exist prior to 1967?

Why do Hamas, Hez., etc, distribute the same anti-Semitic literature that the Third Reich did?

BTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

[bmulls]

Hamas executes 6 suspected Israeli collaborators, drag bodies through the streets

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_22034428/hamas-executes-six-suspected-collaborators-israel-body-dragged

I'm not gonna embed this pic because it's fcked up:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/870854/thumbs/r-HAMAS-large570.jpg

And here's some video before Millwad calls the whole thing a fake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhhwvG6KU5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fB2JDlTFnk

These are the people Israel is trying to "negotiate" with, lol

[insidehoops]

when i visited lebanon a couple years ago, i remember passing by something that looked like a ghetto flea market. when we stopped at a nearby gas station for a piss break, our tour guide said that area wasn't a local flea market, but actually a camp for palestinian refuges who had nowhere to go when they lost their land. the refuges were living in dirty tents. pretty horrible conditions like a sh!t hole. they've been there for several decades too, and they pretty much live as 5th class citizens. by law, they aren't allowed to get regular jobs, and their children, even if born in lebanon, are forever recognized as refuges only and do not have much rights at all. needless to say, it's a pretty f--ked up social and economic condition. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to observe why some of them are so pissed off and pushed off the edge.


Jewish refugees that came from Arab countries to Israel were given Israeli citizenship and help so they could move on with their lives and their refugee status could end so they could leave the past behind.

Arab/Palestinian refugees that came from Israel to Lebanon have been NOT helped, NOT given citizenship, and kept as refugees 2-3 generations later, for the specific purpose of keeping the refugee problem alive to use those people as pawns against Israel, forever

[millwad]

Hamas executes 6 suspected Israeli collaborators, drag bodies through the streets

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_22034428/hamas-executes-six-suspected-collaborators-israel-body-dragged

I'm not gonna embed this pic because it's fcked up:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/870854/thumbs/r-HAMAS-large570.jpg

And here's some video before Millwad calls the whole thing a fake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhhwvG6KU5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fB2JDlTFnk

These are the people Israel is trying to "negotiate" with, lol

Extremely disgusting.

And I don't call anything with reliable sources fake, my discussion with Nick-Young was about the fact that he used the most worthless sources just to push for his agenda. Sites like a zionist blog, another blog which he claimed was from Huffington Post when in reality it was just some random guy from Texas who used the name "Huffington Post" in his blogspot-name. And another of his sources was the words of a soldier he claimed that he met when he was 14 years old.. And he was also trying to misinform people regarding events in the past, like Camp David. All I asked for was some reliable sources and honest posts instead of trying to misinform people.

[demons2005]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa9E1X6NybE&feature=player_embedded

Powerful powerful stuff.

[1987_Lakers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWJFC98jPrQ

[millwad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWJFC98jPrQ

Have no time to watch it now but I must say, Vice have top-notch documentaries!

[dunksby]

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for the constant subjective thread title changes, it's what the Webmaster believes to be the truth.

[millwad]

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for the constant subjective thread title changes, it's what the Webmaster believes to be the truth.

Sorry, Jeff/Steve, but this is pathetic.


Seriously, when you go out and people don't agree with you on your standpoint, do you hold your ears? It's sad how you do this to your own forum, it leaves you zero credibility.. The meaning of a forum is to share thoughts and discuss, not shutting people down, cuss at them and change their posts or delete their posts just because it doesn't fit your beliefs..

[Blue&Orange]

Hamas executes 6 suspected Israeli collaborators, drag bodies through the streets

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_22034428/hamas-executes-six-suspected-collaborators-israel-body-dragged

I'm not gonna embed this pic because it's fcked up:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/870854/thumbs/r-HAMAS-large570.jpg

And here's some video before Millwad calls the whole thing a fake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhhwvG6KU5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fB2JDlTFnk

These are the people Israel is trying to "negotiate" with, lol
Because the Jews didn't to the same to nazi collaborators... :rolleyes:

I guess you're trying to say Hitler was right in not negotiating and just going for the genocide.