the best centers in the nba right now

[Teanett]

1. Marc Gasol
2. Brook Lopez
3. Omer Asik

[hoopaddict08]

Greg Monroe says know your role

[Detroit]

http://i.imgur.com/GfwAR.png
http://i.imgur.com/4qDPn.png
http://i.imgur.com/Xb2id.png

[DukeDelonte13]

Andy V. averaging 14/14 for the season so far.

[Basketbolero]

Tim Duncan is the best center in the league right now.

[HylianNightmare]

when's monroe going to slide over to the 4 and play alongside drummond???

[SacJB Shady]

Bogut

[Bigsmoke]

1. Marc Gasol
2. Brook Lopez
3. Omer Asik

white guy, half white, white, beastie boys Avatar.

i have no idea rather this OP guy is black or white :rolleyes:

Dwight is averaging 18/10/3 so how the **** is Brook Lopez better?

[TheFan]

OMG... Greg Monroe is the best center in the league... I had the feeling he was gonna be good... but the "Lamar Odom without the athleticism" predictions killed my buzz on the kid...

[swi7ch]

Came to post Asik, saw OP, left thread happy.

[PyrrhusX]

What about Hibbert?













:(
But seriously, any combination of Marc Gasol, Monroe and Asik is solid.

[Teanett]

white guy, half white, white, beastie boys Avatar.

i have no idea rather this OP guy is black or white :rolleyes:

Dwight is averaging 18/10/3 so how the **** is Brook Lopez better?

did you watch dwight the last few games? he's terrible right now.

[embersyc]

when's monroe going to slide over to the 4 and play alongside drummond???

When he can shoot the 18 footer as good as Jason Maxiell.

[Teanett]

i thought about monroe but he's team won only three games.
there's no good big men on terrible teams.

[Bandito]

http://i.imgur.com/GfwAR.png
http://i.imgur.com/4qDPn.png
http://i.imgur.com/Xb2id.png
.9 block for a center is utterly pathetic. Is kinda sad when your best centers are playing like these plus Dwight....

Now that I notice something, how the hell is a 7 ft person who avaerages 2 blocks only averaging 6 rebounds? I Know he only plays 30 minutes but still...

[avonbarksdale]

dwight gasol duncan.

[La Frescobaldi]

My favorite position ~ ~ C

I had started the season going like this.......

1. d12
2. Bynum
3. Monroe & Pekovic fighting for this spot.
4. D Jordan
5. David Lee - who gets ignored by everybody for some reason.

Clearly I hadn't reckoned on Varejao, who I can't seem to catch a game, and J Noah who has developed into an elite player (in spite of the fact I can't stand the chumpiness of his ways).

Not accounting for injuries etc., CBS has center "power ratings"... these guys of Teanett are all over the place but they show it like this:
1 d12
2 Varejao
3. Noah
4. David Lee
5. Marc Gasol
6. G Monroe
7. A Jefferson
8. Al Horford
9. Cousins
10. B Lopez
11. Bargnani
12. Kaman
13. B Mullins
14. Asik
15. Pekovic
16. T Chandler
17. Vucevic
18. Hibbert
19 D Jordan
20 Robin Lopez
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/C

The matchups I want to see in this league right now are these:

D Howard - O Asik
D12 weakness: not much. Injuries.
Asik weakness: inexperience, possibly physical weakness.

N Pekovic - G Monroe
Pek weakness: passing, injuries.
Monroe weakness: tendency to overplay early and fade bad in 4q.

B Lopez - J Noah
Lopez weakness: Have not seen enough; Pekovic destroyed him
Noah weakness: can be shoved around easily, but not much. Defense can be appallingly bad for a center that plays in the NBA. Played Pek to a standoff

M Gasol - A Varejeo
haven't seen these guys this year...

D Lee - Bargnani
D Lee weakness: wants to have teammates but doesn't.
Bargnani - haven't seen but my friends say he is the real thing on a bad team. Just looking at stat line from last night, Monroe had all he could handle and that is saying a lot

we will have some clarity at the C when we have seen those answered; nobody I have seen is close to Howard since Shaq retired (although d12 won't ever be at that level though). I count Timi Dunkin as a PF otherwise clearly he's the best C of the last generation, and possibly since Hakeem.

[ChuckOakley]

The best scoring center has been Lopez, who's also been the Nets MVP by a very very large margin. Defensively he's much better and while his rebounding is still disappointing the team's as a whole is fine on the boards which is all that matters.

[I<3NBA]

no Bosh? srsly? fk this thread.

[La Frescobaldi]

no Bosh? srsly? fk this thread.
lol that right there is a true fact

[Teanett]

no Bosh? srsly? fk this thread.

eh. everybody knows lebron's the center for the heat. :D

[rodman91]

Lopez is going strong this. I have seen almost every Nets game and he is clearly impressive. He has very good post moves as well as he can hit toughest shots over defenders from mid range. His man to man defense & protecting the rim imporved a lot. Rebounding is still problem.

Probably franchise player of Nets. Deron gets all fame but Lopez carries the team both sides of the floor.

If he was black with an attitude, he would be much bigger name right now.:lol

[BuffaloBill]

can't leave out Goatkim Noah

[tpols]

My favorite position ~ ~ C

I had started the season going like this.......

1. d12
2. Bynum
3. Monroe & Pekovic fighting for this spot.
4. D Jordan
5. David Lee - who gets ignored by everybody for some reason.

Clearly I hadn't reckoned on Varejao, who I can't seem to catch a game, and J Noah who has developed into an elite player (in spite of the fact I can't stand the chumpiness of his ways).

Not accounting for injuries etc., CBS has center "power ratings"... these guys of Teanett are all over the place but they show it like this:
1 d12
2 Varejao
3. Noah
4. David Lee
5. Marc Gasol
6. G Monroe
7. A Jefferson
8. Al Horford
9. Cousins
10. B Lopez
11. Bargnani
12. Kaman
13. B Mullins
14. Asik
15. Pekovic
16. T Chandler
17. Vucevic
18. Hibbert
19 D Jordan
20 Robin Lopez
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/C

The matchups I want to see in this league right now are these:

D Howard - O Asik
D12 weakness: not much. Injuries.
Asik weakness: inexperience, possibly physical weakness.

N Pekovic - G Monroe
Pek weakness: passing, injuries.
Monroe weakness: tendency to overplay early and fade bad in 4q.

B Lopez - J Noah
Lopez weakness: Have not seen enough; Pekovic destroyed him
Noah weakness: can be shoved around easily, but not much. Defense can be appallingly bad for a center that plays in the NBA. Played Pek to a standoff

M Gasol - A Varejeo
haven't seen these guys this year...

D Lee - Bargnani
D Lee weakness: wants to have teammates but doesn't.
Bargnani - haven't seen but my friends say he is the real thing on a bad team. Just looking at stat line from last night, Monroe had all he could handle and that is saying a lot

we will have some clarity at the C when we have seen those answered; nobody I have seen is close to Howard since Shaq retired (although d12 won't ever be at that level though). I count Timi Dunkin as a PF otherwise clearly he's the best C of the last generation, and possibly since Hakeem.
Putting Varejeo, pekovic, jordan, Noah, Lee, and cousins over Lopez is extreme disrespect. He's a more potent scorer than any center in the entire league and hes one of the best shotblockers. His man defense isnt great but his rim protection and scoring alone have so much impact on the game.

And he looks so much stronger than he did the past two years. Dude looks legitamately jacked. 7-0+ with awkwardly long length and 270 lbs to throw around.

[WillC]

Tim Duncan is the best center in the league right now.

By a mile.

[La Frescobaldi]

Putting Varejeo, pekovic, jordan, Noah, Lee, and cousins over Lopez is extreme disrespect. He's a more potent scorer than any center in the entire league and hes one of the best shotblockers. His man defense isnt great but his rim protection and scoring alone have so much impact on the game.

And he looks so much stronger than he did the past two years. Dude looks legitamately jacked. 7-0+ with awkwardly long length and 270 lbs to throw around.
Yeah that's CBS sports list, not mine.... but I would like to see that cat gain some more weight, Pekovic threw him around like a medicine ball the other night

[Real Men Wear Green]

As much as he's criticized, give Stern credit for removing the mandatory All-Star spot for centers.

[Bigsmoke]

did you watch dwight the last few games? he's terrible right now.

2 games in a completely new system. Nice logic

[RedBlackAttack]

Putting Varejeo, pekovic, jordan, Noah, Lee, and cousins over Lopez is extreme disrespect. He's a more potent scorer than any center in the entire league and hes one of the best shotblockers. His man defense isnt great but his rim protection and scoring alone have so much impact on the game.

And he looks so much stronger than he did the past two years. Dude looks legitamately jacked. 7-0+ with awkwardly long length and 270 lbs to throw around.
Varejao being ahead of Lopez is "disrespect?" It is actually quite the opposite.

Varejao is getting no respect in this thread. The guy is averaging 14/14 on great efficiency and solid man and help defense and he has barely been mentioned. He also put 35/19 on Lopez in their only head to head match up. Totally outplayed him.

[Teanett]

2 games in a completely new system. Nice logic

well, the thread states "right now", you fukking imbecile.
you should change your title from "last nikka" to "dumbest asshole", yer dumb fukk.

[La Frescobaldi]

Varejao being ahead of Lopez is "disrespect?" It is actually quite the opposite.

Varejao is getting no respect in this thread. The guy is averaging 14/14 on great efficiency and solid man and help defense and he has barely been mentioned. He also put 35/19 on Lopez in their only head to head match up. Totally outplayed him.

ya what I been sayin.... I have NOT been able to catch him on tv... i hadn't watched highlight reels in so long because that's just Fool's Game.

But I'm resorting to them just to see this guy, everyone I respect that is watching him says he is the real deal

[brandonislegend]

Marc Gasol is the best center in the nba at this moment.

[tpols]

Varejao being ahead of Lopez is "disrespect?" It is actually quite the opposite.

Varejao is getting no respect in this thread. The guy is averaging 14/14 on great efficiency and solid man and help defense and he has barely been mentioned. He also put 35/19 on Lopez in their only head to head match up. Totally outplayed him.
I watched that entire game and yes Varejeo played better than Lopez but a)that game was a total fluke.. Lopez is far, far more likely to drop 30 than varejeo is and b)kyrie was going HAM that game hitting varejeo for layup after layup after splitting our defense right down the seams. Lopez has shit on LA over the past couple years including hanging like 40 on Bynum one time but I'm not going to jump to conclusions over one or two head to heads. Just like Deron has gotten the btetter of CP recently but I would take paul in a second over him.

Lopez>Varejeo and this wont be much of a comparison by the end of the season barring injury to either one of them. Better rim protection, much better and consistent scorer, and most importantly he's younger and is just entering his prime.

The Nets along with pretty much any other gm in the league would never ever take Varejeo over Lopez unless they were competing for the top lottery pick.

[brandonislegend]

Someone that is allergic to rebounding should not be considered as a TOP nba center.

[DuMa]

I think its Marc Gasol as well. but people laughing at Brook's rebounding numbers, why arent they laughing at Marc's rebounding numbers as well?

[RedBlackAttack]

I watched that entire game and yes Varejeo played better than Lopez but a)that game was a total fluke.. Lopez is far, far more likely to drop 30 than varejeo is and b)kyrie was going HAM that game hitting varejeo for layup after layup after splitting our defense right down the seams. Lopez has shit on LA over the past couple years including hanging like 40 on Bynum one time but I'm not going to jump to conclusions over one or two head to heads. Just like Deron has gotten the btetter of CP recently but I would take paul in a second over him.

Lopez>Varejeo and this wont be much of a comparison by the end of the season barring injury to either one of them. Better rim protection, much better and consistent scorer, and most importantly he's younger and is just entering his prime.

The Nets along with pretty much any other gm in the league would never ever take Varejeo over Lopez unless they were competing for the top lottery pick.

Ridiculous. Varejao just had a 19/17 game last night and Kyrie is currently injured, so it is pretty funny that you're trying to chalk up all of his success to Kyrie.

That game was only a "fluke" to those who do not watch Varejao on a regular basis. Here are some of his statlines so far this year, and we are only 12 games into the season...

20 points, 17 rebounds @ Milwaukee
19 points, 16 rebounds vs. Philadelphia
35 points, 18 rebounds @ Brooklyn
9 points, 23 rebounds, 9 assists vs. Washington
15 points, 15 rebounds @ Clippers
14 points, 15 rebounds @ Philadelphia
14 points, 10 rebounds @ Phoenix

And, there is a reason Varejao's highest scoring game came against Brooklyn... Lopez's defense was utterly pathetic.

Varejao > Lopez

Especially if you are going by just this season (as this thread is), it isn't close.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

based on recent play:


1. Duncan
2. bosh

[tpols]

Varejao > Lopez

19/6, 3 blocks per game on 56% shooting as the highest impact player on a 7-4 team

versus

14/14, .4(:oldlol: ) blocks per game on 52% shooting as the, I guess now that Kyrie is out, highest impact player on a 3-9 team.

And Varejeo plays 6 minutes more per game or 20% more time on the court. The fact that you're acting like varejeo is clearly better is a fvcking joke.


All Varejeo does better than Lopez is rebound/pass the ball and play man defense. Lopez is far, far better at defending the rim which is one of the most important attributes a center could have. Varejeo's pathetic lack of blocks and rim protection definitely negatively impact the cavs success more than Lopez' lack of rebounding does to the Nets who have competent rebounders surrounding him. And scoring isnt close. Lopez with a massive edge in volume and signifigant edge in efficiency.

Like i said Lopez is and will be better this year.. Ill bet anything on it and this thread will be bumped for laughs later.

[RedBlackAttack]

19/6, 3 blocks per game on 56% shooting as the highest impact player on a 7-4 team

versus

14/14, .4(:oldlol: ) blocks per game on 52% shooting as the, I guess now that Kyrie is out, highest impact player on a 3-9 team.

And Varejeo plays 6 minutes more per game or 20% more time on the court. The fact that you're acting like varejeo is clearly better is a fvcking joke.


All Varejeo does better than Lopez is rebound/pass the ball and play man defense. Lopez is far, far better at defending the rim which is one of the most important attributes a center could have. Varejeo's pathetic lack of blocks and rim protection definitely negatively impact the cavs success more than Lopez' lack of rebounding does to the Nets who have competent rebounders surrounding him. And scoring isnt close. Lopez with a massive edge in volume and signifigant edge in efficiency.

Like i said Lopez is and will be better this year.. Ill bet anything on it and this thread will be bumped for laughs later.
Once again, the thread is about where the players are right now, not what your personal opinion is by the end of the season. You would have to be utterly insane not to give Varejao the nod at this stage of the season.

Varejao's "pathetic lack of blocks" is really going to be your sticking point?

Varejao gets over double the amount of rebounds per game as compared to Lopez, which is absolutely crucial for a big man. The disparity in scoring isn't nearly as large as the disparity in rebounding. Varejao leads the entire league in rebounding... Does that not count for much these days? I've always felt rebounding was a rather important aspect of the game, especially for a big man.

Varejao is a FAR superior rebounder, a far superior passer, a far superior individual man defender.

Lopez five more points on three more shots per game and he blocks shots better.

And, furthermore, Varejao embarrassed the guy head-to-head. Nothing more to see here.

[Sharmer]

Ridiculous. Varejao just had a 19/17 game last night and Kyrie is currently injured, so it is pretty funny that you're trying to chalk up all of his success to Kyrie.

That game was only a "fluke" to those who do not watch Varejao on a regular basis. Here are some of his statlines so far this year, and we are only 12 games into the season...

20 points, 17 rebounds @ Milwaukee
19 points, 16 rebounds vs. Philadelphia
35 points, 18 rebounds @ Brooklyn
9 points, 23 rebounds, 9 assists vs. Washington
15 points, 15 rebounds @ Clippers
14 points, 15 rebounds @ Philadelphia
14 points, 10 rebounds @ Phoenix

And, there is a reason Varejao's highest scoring game came against Brooklyn... Lopez's defense was utterly pathetic.

Varejao > Lopez

Especially if you are going by just this season (as this thread is), it isn't close.

:bowdown:

[no pun intended]

did you watch dwight the last few games? he's terrible right now.
I don't see how you can judge Dwight from just his last two games. He should still be considered one of the best centers in the NBA right now. We can't leave him out of the argument, especially when we are speaking top three.

[RRR3]

Someone that is allergic to rebounding should not be considered as a TOP nba center.
Marc Gasol is averaging all of 7 boards a game and you claimed he was the best.

[rodman91]

stats stats stats...

[DStebb716]

lol at op not putting dwight in there and then everybody letting him get away with it.

[no pun intended]

lol at op not putting dwight in there and then everybody letting him get away with it.
I know right?

[tpols]

Once again, the thread is about where the players are right now, not what your personal opinion is by the end of the season. You would have to be utterly insane not to give Varejao the nod at this stage of the season.

Varejao's "pathetic lack of blocks" is really going to be your sticking point?

Varejao gets over double the amount of rebounds per game as compared to Lopez, which is absolutely crucial for a big man. The disparity in scoring isn't nearly as large as the disparity in rebounding. Varejao leads the entire league in rebounding... Does that not count for much these days? I've always felt rebounding was a rather important aspect of the game, especially for a big man.

Varejao is a FAR superior rebounder, a far superior passer, a far superior individual man defender.

Lopez five more points on three more shots per game and he blocks shots better.

And, furthermore, Varejao embarrassed the guy head-to-head. Nothing more to see here.
Ok so..

Varejeo is clearly a better rebounder, man defender and passer

while Lopez is clearly a better scorer, primary or secondary offensive option(aka not a cleanup man), and rim protector

and Varejeo is clearly better? And Lopez does it on a competitive team while varejeo is stat stuffing on a lottery team. I think you're the one who needs his head checked.

Lopez is better by a fvcking country mile at the most important defensive category there is while Anderson is better at the less important man post defense(in a perimeter oriented league where there are few traditional post up guys). Anderson is much better at rebounding which gives him a small defensive edge when combined with his man D and put up against Brook's traditional rim defense. But then on offense you're comparing a glorified clean up man to the highest scoring and most offensively skilled center in the league. Brook is actually an OPTION on offense. He isn't just feasting off the normal flow of the game. He has the ability to get the ball in an iso and do something with it. He can dictate momentum in a game. Varejeo is Kris Humphries with a little more skill and flair. This comparison is a joke.

[ChuckOakley]

Once again, the thread is about where the players are right now, not what your personal opinion is by the end of the season. You would have to be utterly insane not to give Varejao the nod at this stage of the season.

Varejao's "pathetic lack of blocks" is really going to be your sticking point?

Varejao gets over double the amount of rebounds per game as compared to Lopez, which is absolutely crucial for a big man. The disparity in scoring isn't nearly as large as the disparity in rebounding. Varejao leads the entire league in rebounding... Does that not count for much these days? I've always felt rebounding was a rather important aspect of the game, especially for a big man.

Varejao is a FAR superior rebounder, a far superior passer, a far superior individual man defender.

Lopez five more points on three more shots per game and he blocks shots better.

And, furthermore, Varejao embarrassed the guy head-to-head. Nothing more to see here.
He embarrassed him? Then why couldn't he defend Lopez?
Meanwhile which front line...
Had more points
More rebounds
More blocks
Scored much much more efficiently
Won the game
?

And if you watched the game intently, Lopez wasn't matched up with Varejo in 1-1 often, when they were Lopez did fine. The biggest problem for the Nets all season (and last season) has been Derons defense which makes the bigs vulnerable. Irving owned Deron that night and his penetration and dish offs to varejao are what got AV 80% of his points.

Right now Lopez is the best scoring center, one of the best shotblocking centers and he is by far and away the MVP of the Nets...best in the league...no that's Dwight, but depending on your team, theirs needs and their PF lopez could be the 2nd most desirable for some teams.

[tpols]

He embarrassed him? Then why couldn't he defend Lopez?
Meanwhile which front line...
Had more points
More rebounds
More blocks
Scored much much more efficiently
Won the game
?

And if you watched the game intently, Lopez wasn't matched up with Varejo in 1-1 often, when they were Lopez did fine. The biggest problem for the Nets all season (and last season) has been Derons defense which makes the bigs vulnerable. Irving owned Deron that night and his penetration and dish offs to varejao are what got AV 80% of his points.

Right now Lopez is the best scoring center, one of the best shotblocking centers and he is by far and away the MVP of the Nets...best in the league...no that's Dwight, but depending on your team, theirs needs and their PF lopez could be the 2nd most desirable for some teams.
EXACTLY.

Cant believe Im arguing with someone who doesnt even watch the games hes using as evidence.:facepalm

[Papaya Petee]

:wtf:

1.) Gortat

2.) the rest

[RedBlackAttack]

He embarrassed him? Then why couldn't he defend Lopez?
Meanwhile which front line...
Had more points
More rebounds
More blocks
Scored much much more efficiently
Won the game
?

And if you watched the game intently, Lopez wasn't matched up with Varejo in 1-1 often, when they were Lopez did fine. The biggest problem for the Nets all season (and last season) has been Derons defense which makes the bigs vulnerable. Irving owned Deron that night and his penetration and dish offs to varejao are what got AV 80% of his points.

Right now Lopez is the best scoring center, one of the best shotblocking centers and he is by far and away the MVP of the Nets...best in the league...no that's Dwight, but depending on your team, theirs needs and their PF lopez could be the 2nd most desirable for some teams.
Wait, so you are arguing that perimeter defense contributes to Lopez's defensive problems? If that's the case, what about Varejao who has Kyrie Irving attempting to defend the point (awful defender) and a rookie defending the 2? There is essentially a path to the line all night, every night for the Cavs and it is Varejao and Thompson, primarily, who have to clean up the mess.

Also, I would agree that Irving and Varejao's two-man game are what has helped make Andy an offensive weapon this year, but he also deserves credit for making the tandem work so well. He plays the high pick and roll very well and they have a wonderful feel for one another's game. You couldn't just stick any big in the league out there and he is going to produce the way Varejao has. He has incredibly soft hands around the basket, is a good finisher, and has even added that little 15-18 foot jumper to his game.... Plus, he's a very good passer for a big man and he cleans up misses like no one else in the league.

Btw, I did watch that game closely and Varejao couldn't miss that night and a lot of his points came from offensive rebounds and put-backs... Which is no surprise considering he is the best offensive rebounder in the NBA and extraordinarily good at put-backs. He had 11 offensive rebounds that night.

Yes, Kyrie set him up several times, which is because they work extremely well together offensviely... A credit to both players. I would also note that the vast majority of Lopez's points came from inside the paint that night, as well, which I'm sure had nothing to do with a bad defensive backcourt for the Cavs.


Look, I showed Varejao's pretty amazing statlines this season above. You have to try really hard not to be impressed.

That includes the last two games, during which time Kyrie has been injured.

vs. Philadelphia - 10 points, 19 rebounds, 2 assists
@ Orlando - 19 points, 17 rebounds, 3 assists

Clearly, this isn't just a case of Irving making Varejao a very good player... He's just very good.

[Lord Leoshes]

1A. Howard
1B. Bosh
1C. Duncan

[arifgokcen]

based on recent play:


1. Duncan
2. bosh
+1

[Bigsmoke]

Are people really thinking Varejao is better than Brook Lopez?

[ncrizzle]

Marc Gasol is averaging all of 7 boards a game and you claimed he was the best.

Gasol is teamed up with the best rebounder in league in ZBO (14boards a game). Of course his boards are going to suffer a bit, but he doesnt fight zbo for rbds because he knows zbo is going to get them. Last night he led all players in assists with 8. Gasol plays team ball. He does what it takes to win

[Bigsmoke]

Gasol is teamed up with the best rebounder in league in ZBO (14boards a game). Of course his boards are going to suffer a bit, but he doesnt fight zbo for rbds because he knows zbo is going to get them. Last night he led all players in assists with 8. Gasol plays team ball. He does what it takes to win

true

Gasol would average 10 rebounds a night of Z-Bo was hurt or something

[Heavincent]

Tim Duncan has arguably been the best big man this season. A top 10 player overall too.

[rmt]

Duncan is playing very well this season:

18.5 points / 10.9 rebs / 2.4 assts / 0.9 steals / 2.3 blks 51.7% FG 74.6 % FT in 30.7 minutes.

[disel]

Duncan is an ever green bastard

[Cali Syndicate]

Duncan is playing very well this season:

18.5 points / 10.9 rebs / 2.4 assts / 0.9 steals / 2.3 blks 51.7% FG 74.6 % FT in 30.7 minutes.

He plays well every season. Dude is seriously the epitome of consistency.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Chris Boshasaurus is playing like one of the best.
20 ppg/8.2 rpg/1.4 apg/1.3 bpg/.8 spg/56% FG/ 33.5 mpg

[SacJB Shady]

One guy that isn't mentioned enough is Festuz Ezili. Ezili just hasn't backed down. In case u don't know him, he is Bogut's back up.

Ironically, The Warriors definitely know about the center position this year, even though Bogut is still out. In a league where the center spot is lacking, the Warriors actually have 3 Legitimate Centers.

Andrew Bogut, Festus Ezili, and Andris Biedrins.

And despite what your opinion on Biedrins is, he has supplied ample defense and rebounding this year in the limited minutes he has played

[atljonesbro]

Al Horford averaging 16 ppg, 9 rpg, and 3apg the underrated undersized machine

[SacJB Shady]

There aren't very many true centers anymore. A lot of elite power forwards became centers like duncan or garnett. Now don't get me wrong, they definitely have the size to be a center, but they are also able to do that because the league doesn't have the size and skill that it used to at that spot. There are really only a handful of real quality ''centers.'' Their are big men and 4's and 4's who are tall enough to play the center, but there are only a handful of real centers. When you put Gallanari at the center, Bosh at center at times, Horford at center, then you know that there aren't as many quality centers available. Other centers such as Blaire, Perkins, or Nene have the size for a center, but not the ideal height.

[LoneyROY7]

Robin Lopez - "I'm just feeling like the throne is for the taking, watch me take it."

[BuffaloBill]

There aren't very many true centers anymore. A lot of elite power forwards became centers like duncan or garnett. Now don't get me wrong, they definitely have the size to be a center, but they are also able to do that because the league doesn't have the size and skill that it used to at that spot. There are really only a handful of real quality ''centers.'' Their are big men and 4's and 4's who are tall enough to play the center, but there are only a handful of real centers. When you put Gallanari at the center, Bosh at center at times, Horford at center, then you know that there aren't as many quality centers available. Other centers such as Blaire, Perkins, or Nene have the size for a center, but not the ideal height.


Roy Hibbert
Greg Monroe
Joakim Noah
Demarcus Cousins
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol
Al Jefferson
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler
Dwight Howard
Brook Lopez
Nikola Pekovic
Omer Asik
Deandre Jordan

[La Frescobaldi]

There aren't very many true centers anymore. A lot of elite power forwards became centers like duncan or garnett. Now don't get me wrong, they definitely have the size to be a center, but they are also able to do that because the league doesn't have the size and skill that it used to at that spot. There are really only a handful of real quality ''centers.'' Their are big men and 4's and 4's who are tall enough to play the center, but there are only a handful of real centers. When you put Gallanari at the center, Bosh at center at times, Horford at center, then you know that there aren't as many quality centers available. Other centers such as Blaire, Perkins, or Nene have the size for a center, but not the ideal height.

I don't agree. There are LOTS of centers in the League, they are playing at a VERY high level, and these guys are just as big today as they were in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s.

For 50 years the average NBA center has been 6'9" to 6'11" tall and weighed 220-275 lbs.

Those dimensions have never changed from 1960 to the present day.

Guys have been taller and dominated, and guys have been shorter and dominated, but by and large those are the NBA dimensions at center.

Now, if you mean elite centers, there never were very many. What I mean is, when you talk about elite players at Center, that number has not varied. There were about 4 truly elite centers in the 60s, and there are about 4 truly elite centers today. I mean playing at the time, within the era of the League.

It has not mattered one single fraction how many teams there are in the league; at any given point in time you are going to find about that many true very best of the best centers in the world.

There was a Sports Illustrated article here a year or two ago that suggested there were about 90 people in the United States that were 7' tall.

When you have a pool that is so infinitesimally small, you are only going to get one or two people a generation that have a) an interest, b) a skillset, and c) the required athleticism... to even make it to the NBA.

Now then within that group of 25 or 30 all-time greatest centers of their eras of course you can have your opinions about which is best , rankings and all that - but the numbers have not changed in all those years, contrary to these really woollyheaded opinions you see about evolution and so forth.

[FKAri]

I don't agree. There are LOTS of centers in the League, they are playing at a VERY high level, and these guys are just as big today as they were in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s.

For 50 years the average NBA center has been 6'9" to 6'11" tall and weighed 220-275 lbs.

Those dimensions have never changed from 1960 to the present day.

Guys have been taller and dominated, and guys have been shorter and dominated, but by and large those are the NBA dimensions at center.

Now, if you mean elite centers, there never were very many. What I mean is, when you talk about elite players at Center, that number has not varied. There were about 4 truly elite centers in the 60s, and there are about 4 truly elite centers today. I mean playing at the time, within the era of the League.

It has not mattered one single fraction how many teams there are in the league; at any given point in time you are going to find about that many true very best of the best centers in the world.

There was a Sports Illustrated article here a year or two ago that suggested there were about 90 people in the United States that were 7' tall.

When you have a pool that is so infinitesimally small, you are only going to get one or two people a generation that have a) an interest, b) a skillset, and c) the required athleticism... to even make it to the NBA.

Now then within that group of 25 or 30 all-time greatest centers of their eras of course you can have your opinions about which is best , rankings and all that - but the numbers have not changed in all those years, contrary to these really woollyheaded opinions you see about evolution and so forth.

I agree. I don't think people realize just how much the rule changes have affected big men. It's far more difficult to be a post player today then it was ever before. It's so easy for defenses to collapse on you due to zone spacing and the back to the basket rule doesn't help either.

[Teanett]

Now, if you mean elite centers, there never were very many. What I mean is, when you talk about elite players at Center, that number has not varied. There were about 4 truly elite centers in the 60s, and there are about 4 truly elite centers today. I mean playing at the time, within the era of the League.


but the elite now is on a much lower level.
for example, anderson varejao is named as one of the better centers in the league. last game he was isolated on shane battier about 9 feet from the basket but instead of instantly trying to score he passed it out... :wtf:
i mean, even if chris bosh would be the defender, a decent to good nba center should take advantage of that.
dont you think guys like rik smits, brad daugherty, rony seikaly etc. would even hesitate with shane battier guarding them?

[La Frescobaldi]

but the elite now is on a much lower level.
for example, anderson varejao is named as one of the better centers in the league. last game he was isolated on shane battier about 9 feet from the basket but instead of instantly trying to score he passed it out... :wtf:
i mean, even if chris bosh would be the defender, a decent to good nba center should take advantage of that.
dont you think guys like rik smits, brad daugherty, rony seikaly etc. would even hesitate with shane battier guarding them?

Let's look at it again at the end of this season, where flopping is FINALLY being addressed by the league. Because that fact has done a lot of damage to pro basketball, the more pure style of playing before Divac and Chris Paul ruined the sport.
I mean look at Griffin or Wade and it's been quite a while that has been going on. It will take a while, but I predict the real men are gonna step up their game.

Without knowing the play you are talking about.... I get where you are comin from on that.... yes I do think Battier would have got run over by Shaq era Centers. Or Artis Gilmore or Moses crashing the lane and leaving a trail of broken doll bodies behind em.

But I also wonder about Kareem & Mr. ShakenBake Hakeem O, and some of the other, earlier guys. They might have gone a different way than smashing over the defender.

[Teanett]

But I also wonder about Kareem & Mr. ShakenBake Hakeem O, and some of the other, earlier guys. They might have gone a different way than smashing over the defender.

any fundamentally sound basketball player will exploit a height advantage without smashing over the defender.

[SacJB Shady]

Roy Hibbert
Greg Monroe
Joakim Noah
Demarcus Cousins
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol
Al Jefferson
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler
Dwight Howard
Brook Lopez
Nikola Pekovic
Omer Asik
Deandre Jordan


Greg Monroe
Joakim Noah
Demarcus Cousins- great player but not quite a 7 footer
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol
Al Jefferson- Good player, but again more like a 4 at only 6 foot 10
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler
Dwight Howard
Brook Lopez
Nikola Pekovic- Good size but only about 6 ft 10 in height
Omer Asik- Yes a true center but been a sub most his career
Deandre Jordan- Has the length for shot blocking but not tough on the glass


This list is still only 14 players in a league with 30 teams. Only about 9 or 10 of these are true quality centers. I remember the 90's with Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson. Plus guys like Rick Schmidt, Luc Longley, Ronny Seikly, and Alonzo Mourning.

[La Frescobaldi]

any fundamentally sound basketball player will exploit a height advantage without smashing over the defender.

yes you said it in one sentence took me 10. i need to learn laconic speech

[La Frescobaldi]

My favorite position ~ ~ C

I had started the season going like this.......

1. d12
2. Bynum
3. Monroe & Pekovic fighting for this spot.
4. D Jordan
5. David Lee - who gets ignored by everybody for some reason.

Clearly I hadn't reckoned on Varejao, who I can't seem to catch a game, and J Noah who has developed into an elite player (in spite of the fact I can't stand the chumpiness of his ways).

Not accounting for injuries etc., CBS has center "power ratings"... these guys of Teanett are all over the place but they show it like this:
1 d12
2 Varejao
3. Noah
4. David Lee
5. Marc Gasol
6. G Monroe
7. A Jefferson
8. Al Horford
9. Cousins
10. B Lopez
11. Bargnani
12. Kaman
13. B Mullins
14. Asik
15. Pekovic
16. T Chandler
17. Vucevic
18. Hibbert
19 D Jordan
20 Robin Lopez
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/C

The matchups I want to see in this league right now are these:

D Howard - O Asik
D12 weakness: not much. Injuries.
Asik weakness: inexperience, possibly physical weakness.

N Pekovic - G Monroe
Pek weakness: passing, injuries.
Monroe weakness: tendency to overplay early and fade bad in 4q.

B Lopez - J Noah
Lopez weakness: Have not seen enough; Pekovic destroyed him
Noah weakness: can be shoved around easily, but not much. Defense can be appallingly bad for a center that plays in the NBA. Played Pek to a standoff

M Gasol - A Varejeo
haven't seen these guys this year...

D Lee - Bargnani
D Lee weakness: wants to have teammates but doesn't.
Bargnani - haven't seen but my friends say he is the real thing on a bad team. Just looking at stat line from last night, Monroe had all he could handle and that is saying a lot

we will have some clarity at the C when we have seen those answered; nobody I have seen is close to Howard since Shaq retired (although d12 won't ever be at that level though). I count Timi Dunkin as a PF otherwise clearly he's the best C of the last generation, and possibly since Hakeem.

CBS's Center Power Rankings 2 weeks later

1. Dwight Howard
2. Anderson Varejao
3. David Lee
4. Al Jefferson
5. Joakim Noah
6. Marc Gasol
7. Al Horford
8. Greg Monroe
9. Tyson Chandler
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Brook Lopez
12. Andrea Bargnani
13. Omer Asik
14. Nikola Pekovic
15. Byron Mullens
16. Nikola Vucevic
17. Robin Lopez
17. Chris Kaman
19. Roy Hibbert
20. DeAndre Jordan

Clearly David Lee getting zero attention for some reason. Of course this list is based on CBS stat lines and has no account for things like Roy Hibbert ability to change a game with a hard body check, or Brook Lopez fluid game.
************************************************** ****************
Tonight I'm hoping to catch a key NBA matchup ~ Varejao & Pekovic

Wolves (8-9) vs. Cavaliers (4-15) - 7 PM Central @ Target Center in Minneapolis

Both star point guards are out with injuries ~ making this matchup even more interesting. Both players will have to bring their best inside game without the benefit of a game-stretching outside force in K. Irving or Rubio.

I have not seen too much of Varejao so far this year.... tonight will have even that added edge:
Anderson Varejao statline for this season:
MPG 36
PPG 15.0
RPG 15.40
APG 3.2
EFF + 26.89

From what I've read, Anderson has been carrying most of the duties for the Cavs in the paint so far this year, and is having a career season. He seemed to have no difficulty against the Grizzlies front line

Nicola Pekovic statline for this season:
MPG 31
PPG 14.2
RPG 7.50
APG 1.3
EFF + 15.67

Pek has had some injuries but so far not a whisper about bone spurs, which he had surgery on during off-season. His partner in the paint is Kevin Love.

Let the games begin.

[gasolina]

During the early 2000's a lot of people said that shaq had to do with a lot of it. People like garnett, duncan, webber all had to play pf because they cant deal with shaq on D.

Now we see the opposite happening

[CavaliersFTW]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/574/682/hi-res-138681767_display_image.jpg

15ppg .502fg% .775ft%
15.4rpg 6.1orpg 32.4drb% 24.8trb%
3.2apg 1.6spg 0.4bpg

[La Frescobaldi]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/574/682/hi-res-138681767_display_image.jpg

15ppg .502fg% .775ft%
15.4rpg 6.1orpg 32.4drb% 24.8trb%
3.2apg 1.6spg 0.4bpg


http://binaryapi.ap.org/f7dcf569062c4f8086eddd07571b8249/512x.jpg

[Teanett]

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/tyson-chandler-bunny.jpg

[Teanett]

this matchup was good fun:
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/12/05/3866546/---aaalopezwide-20121205175538957912-620x349.jpg

[Whoah10115]

KG an Webber played PF because they were PF's who wanted to be guards. Tim Duncan played PF because David Robinson was already on the team. None of them did it because of Shaq.


David Lee as a center? David Lee can't play center. Defensively, your team would be in trouble.

[La Frescobaldi]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/574/682/hi-res-138681767_display_image.jpg

15ppg .502fg% .775ft%
15.4rpg 6.1orpg 32.4drb% 24.8trb%
3.2apg 1.6spg 0.4bpg

Pek's role tonight was to stop Cavs best player. Nicola had only about 4 feeds all night long, as opposed to his usual 10 or 12, and he missed them all. He didn't completely shut down AV tonight, but he ruined his game pretty thoroughly.
That 15pts & 15rbs went to 4 & 14 and AV going for the Cavs record on double double streak came to a screeching halt.

The game also brought an interesting fact. K Love spent significant minutes guarding the big guy from Cleveland (who spent a lot of time playing power forward), including several minutes at the 5 position: once again ISH rumors about Love's bad defense are fool's game.

My view was Pekovic nullified Varejao to a draw.

[La Frescobaldi]

CBS Power Rankings of NBA Centers two weeks later
1. David Lee
2. Dwight Howard
3. Anderson Varejao
4. Joakim Noah
5. Al Jefferson
6. Al Horford
7. Marc Gasol
8. Tyson Chandler
9. Greg Monroe
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Nikola Pekovic
12. Brook Lopez
13. Andrea Bargnani
14. Omer Asik
15. Nikola Vucevic

Start of season:
1 d12
2 Varejao
3. Noah
4. David Lee
5. Marc Gasol
6. G Monroe
7. A Jefferson
8. Al Horford
9. Cousins
10. B Lopez
11. Bargnani
12. Kaman
13. B Mullins
14. Asik
15. Pekovic

David Lee rocking the planet right now according to a lot of people.
Biggest movers have been Pekovic up 4, Greg Monroe up 3, but Tyson Chandler wasn't even on the list now he's 8.

[andremiller07]

CBS Power Rankings of NBA Centers two weeks later
1. David Lee
2. Dwight Howard
3. Anderson Varejao
4. Joakim Noah
5. Al Jefferson
6. Al Horford
7. Marc Gasol
8. Tyson Chandler
9. Greg Monroe
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Nikola Pekovic
12. Brook Lopez
13. Andrea Bargnani
14. Omer Asik
15. Nikola Vucevic

[/B]

Andrea should be off that list hes beyond sucked, Cousins should be lower hes not playing anywhere near potential, Pekovic should be higher than Monroe due to his team being near 500. while being smashed by injury. Dwight even though his stats look good imo should be a bit lower than 2 and I'd have Noah above AV but list seems fair.

[La Frescobaldi]

Andrea should be off that list hes beyond sucked, Cousins should be lower hes not playing anywhere near potential, Pekovic should be higher than Monroe due to his team being near 500. while being smashed by injury. Dwight even though his stats look good imo should be a bit lower than 2 and I'd have Noah above AV but list seems fair.

yeah that is pretty much how I see it too. Cousins gets eaten by a lot of players and has stats on weakness teams and teammates. Anyone can get right inside his brain with great ease.

Monroe I love the guy's game but it's like...... he just stops in 4Q sometimes. That may be due to similar problems the T Wolves are having though, they can't finish games as a team (in that case guards just freaking right out esp. Barea but Ridnour also... like contagious) not due to a Center failing to defend his paint. Monroe is on ...... not really one of the all-time best Pistons teams.....

I might be the only guy on ISH that believes in Dwight at this point. Maybe because I've had back problems long ago, and know what that does to your physicality? don't know but to me he's pretty much incredible.