Peak Dwyane Wade vs Peak Tracy McGrady

[Shade8780]

Who was the better player?

[STATUTORY]

peak tracy was better at the game of basketball

peak dwade was the better NBA player because of his propensity for the whistle

[Young X]

Wade.

[kaiteng]

Peak T-Mac, especially the one in Orlando.

[StateOfMind12]

Wade, defense being the biggest difference maker between the two.

[L.Kizzle]

Wade, defense being the biggest difference maker between the two.
Wade is not an all-time great defender, that's not really a huge difference.

[StateOfMind12]

Wade is not an all-time great defender, that's not really a huge difference.
Wade was 3rd in DPOY, McGrady never made an all-defensive team, pretty big difference.

[BrickingStar]

Wade is not an all-time great defender, that's not really a huge difference.
He was pretty good in his peak

[LAClipsFan33]

On offense : McGrady

Defense : Wade

Overall : Wade by a close margin

[LoneROY7]

Wade is not an all-time great defender, that's not really a huge difference.

Wade is arguably the greatest shot-blocking guard the league has ever seen.

[LAClipsFan33]

Wade is arguably the greatest shot-blocking guard the league has ever seen.

This.

[Micku]

Wade was a better defender, finisher, better playmaker, and had better shot selection.

T-Mac was a better scorer, better ball handling skills, more versatile, could move better off the ball. Could play PG, SG, SF.

I think peak Wade was better because his defense capability. Although peak T-Mac was more of a threat all areas of the floor, peak D-Wade was more efficient and had a mid range game in his peak.

[blablabla]

Wade was 3rd in DPOY,
what a joke

[L.Kizzle]

Wade is arguably the greatest shot-blocking guard the league has ever seen.
T-Mac has 3 blocks per games totals higher than Wade ...

[blablabla]

I think peak Wade was better because his defense capability. Although peak T-Mac was more of a threat all areas of the floor, peak D-Wade was more efficient and had a mid range game in his peak.
he was decent from mid range back in the day but not even close to mcgrady

[LoneROY7]

T-Mac has 3 blocks per games totals higher than Wade ...

Unless you consider T-Mac's prime to be in Toronto...Wade at his peak was most certainly a better shot-blocker and overall defender then McGrady at his peak.

[dunksby]

I'd take peak Wade, a better player overall, close in offense but way better in defense compared to peak TMac.

[Micku]

he was decent from mid range back in the day but not even close to mcgrady

You can check the stats for it now actually.

Wade in 2008-09:

10 to 15 ft- 44% FG

80 FG with 182 FGA

16 ft to 3-pt- 41.9% FG

255FG with 609 FGA

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/shooting/2009/


T-Mac in 2002-03:

10 to 15 ft- 41.7% FG

78 FG with 187 FGA

16 ft to 3-pt- 43.6 % FG

282 FG with 647 FGA

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01/shooting/2003/

As the stats show, peak Wade was close to T-Mac. Virtually equal. It just that Wade was a better finisher and T-Mac was the better 3pt and FT shooter.

But you can defend players better back then than now, so that accounts for something too. Probably driving to the basket. Still doesn't change the fact that Wade was a killer with his midrange j though.

[red1]

When he came back from injury wade reached a peak where every aspect of his game came together and he was an absolute beast at everything - amazing scorer, defender, playmaker, was grabbing clutch rebounds, everything. Tmac had his moment and had his advantages too but he was never as complete. Mac = better shooter, wade = more efficient scorer, much better help defender

[KrizMiz]

peak wade > insert name here!

[fsvr54]

God damn T-Mac :cry:

You could've been the GOAT

[Duncan21formvp]

Peak Dwyane Wade because I trust him more in a playoff series. See 2006.

[Sharmer]

T mac, but no doubt wade is the better defender.

[HardwoodLegend]

I hope T-Mac's name continues to be brought up for many years to come.

What a magical and mystical player he was. May his mysterious and intriguing legacy endureth.

[allball]

Wade in every category

[LoneyROY7]

I hope T-Mac's name continues to be brought up for many years to come.

What a magical and mystical player he was. May his mysterious and intriguing legacy endureth.

The Mythical, Mystical, and Magical...Tracy "T-Mac" McGrady.

He'd wet your tongue, but never give you the full glass.

[The_Yearning]

Lol are you serious?

T-Mac.

[LoneyROY7]

Lol are you serious?

T-Mac.

Are you serious?

It's extremely close. Wade's D and clutch play gives him the edge for me.

[Mr. Incredible]

I'm baffled this was even asked. Wade is the clear answer. The guy had a greater will to win than McGrady ever had. If McGrady had a killer instinct, we'd be talking Hall of Fame here and a different answer to the question.

[HardwoodLegend]

Peak Dwyane Wade because I trust him more in a playoff series. See 2006.

Did Dwyane Wade ever carry a weak squad past the 1st round by himself?

[LoneyROY7]

Did Dwyane Wade ever carry a weak squad past the 1st round by himself?

Did T-Mac?

[HardwoodLegend]

Did T-Mac?

No, which sort of puts them on equal footing.

I don't know what really gives Dwyane Wade the clear edge deserving of trust in the playoffs. He's had more shots in the postseason with a better team surrounding him.

McGrady was dynomite in 2005 when he finally joined a good team. He thoroughly outplayed Dirk on both ends of the floor, but Yao was fatigued and the roleplayers were nonexistent.

After that postseason, he was pretty much on a seesaw of bad health with Yao and never really got aligned to make a cohesive push.

Wade had the benefit of more appearances with solid help.

[The_Yearning]

I'm baffled this was even asked. Wade is the clear answer. The guy had a greater will to win than McGrady ever had. If McGrady had a killer instinct, we'd be talking Hall of Fame here and a different answer to the question.

T-Mac isn't a HOF? :roll:

[HardwoodLegend]

T-Mac isn't a HOF? :roll:

Not surefire.

He's borderline leaning more to "NO".

One poster on this board put it pretty well... "If you have to stop and really think about it, the answer should be no."

There's no question he was Hall of Fame caliber though when he was at his best.

[LoneyROY7]

No, which sort of puts them on equal footing.

I don't know what really gives Dwyane Wade the clear edge deserving of trust in the playoffs. He's had more shots in the postseason with a better team surrounding him.

McGrady was dynomite in 2005 when he finally joined a good team. He thoroughly outplayed Dirk on both ends of the floor, but Yao was fatigued and the roleplayers were nonexistent.

After that postseason, he was pretty much on a seesaw of bad health with Yao and never really got aligned to make a cohesive push.

Wade had the benefit of more appearances with solid help.

Yeah, I think it's close as well, but I believe that Wade's defensive edge and closing/clutch ability gives him the advantage.

You can say that he's had more appearances due to solid help, but you can't take away what he's done with those opportunities. And that's lead a team to a championship as the main cog/alpha-dog.

We'll never know what T-Mac could've done at his peak w/ the same help...we know Wade DID it. It's intangible/hypothetical evidence vs tangible evidence...I'll take the tangible evidence.

[Mr. Incredible]

T-Mac isn't a HOF? :roll:I'm not saying he won't be. I'm saying if the man had a killer instinct we wouldn't be having this discussion and he would be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer with no question. He'd be top 30 (or even higher) all-time because he had the talent, however he isn't because I just don't think he worked as hard as he could have.

[StateOfMind12]

No, which sort of puts them on equal footing.

I don't know what really gives Dwyane Wade the clear edge deserving of trust in the playoffs. He's had more shots in the postseason with a better team surrounding him.

McGrady was dynomite in 2005 when he finally joined a good team. He thoroughly outplayed Dirk on both ends of the floor, but Yao was fatigued and the roleplayers were nonexistent.

After that postseason, he was pretty much on a seesaw of bad health with Yao and never really got aligned to make a cohesive push.

Wade had the benefit of more appearances with solid help.
Wade puts up better numbers in the post-season and also Tmac was a player that struggled against the elite/better defenses in the league. Wade never had that problem as he always dominated every team regardless of how good they were defensively.

[andgar923]

Who was the better player?

Tmac and it's no competition.

Tmac was either significantly better or equal to Wade on every aspect

[LoneyROY7]

Tmac and it's no competition.

Tmac was either significantly better or equal to Wade on every aspect…. and YES that includes defense.

Wade isn't as great on the ball as he is off the ball. Tmac was a more well rounded defender both on and off the ball. But offensively, it aint close really.

Wade averaged 30.2 ppg with 7.5 apg on 49.1 percent shooting in 08-09. Let's compare this to T-Mac's peak of 32.1 ppg with 5.5 apg on 45.7 percent shooting.

Wade was a better distributor at 2 more spg clip and he scored 2 less ppg, BUT did it at 3.4 percent more efficient clip...but offensively, it isn't close?


:facepalm

SMFH. Some people.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

This is close for sure. And I think yall are underrating T-mac's defense. It wasn't as good as Wade's but it wasn't miles behind either.

[Mr. Incredible]

It really is a shame T-Mac didn't realize his true potential. However, it wasn't his fault Grant Hill got hurt and ruined anything the Magic thought they had.

[andgar923]

Wade averaged 30.2 ppg with 7.5 apg on 49.1 percent shooting in 08-09. Let's compare this to T-Mac's peak of 32.1 ppg with 5.5 apg on 45.7 percent shooting.

Wade was a better distributor at 2 more spg clip and he scored 2 less ppg, BUT did it at 3.4 percent more efficient clip...but offensively, it isn't close?


:facepalm

SMFH. Some people.

Did you even watch Tmac play or are you just looking up stats?

Wade can't even come off curls, can't go left, post on either side of the block, can't hit you with the 1,2 dribble pull up, etc.etc. etc.

Tmac also shot more 3pointers than Wade, and not necessarily because he was Kobe dumb, but because the defense harassed him like no player since MJ. He'd get doubled and triple teamed more frequently, than any player today, and he didn't have help to take away the pressure.

Tmac's height also helped him as a passer, he gave teams mismatch problems that Wade doesn't. Reason why he didn't average more assists is because he actually din't run point forward like Bron. His system was different, he played differently, but in the moments he did run the offense, he was just as good as Bron, setting up teammates, finding open men, making pin point laser like passes and he was just as willing/unselfish as Bron as well.

Kinda easy to dismiss Tmac now, but I remember even Riley saying how he was the closest to MJ at one point (or something similar).

[PJR]

Dwyane Wade is better. Really no reason to go in depth about it either. Wade is simply better.

If I needed to win one game, I'd want Wade over McGrady on my team anyday of the week. Twice on Sundays.

Only suckers for aesthetics would chose T-Mac over Wade.

[PJR]

Wade can't even come off curls, can't go left, post on either side of the block, can't hit you with the 1,2 dribble pull up, etc.etc. etc.

My god. Just some straight up lies. All of them. :facepalm

[andgar923]

My god. Just some straight up lies. All of them. :facepalm

Too bad they're true.

[HardwoodLegend]

Wade puts up better numbers in the post-season and also Tmac was a player that struggled against the elite/better defenses in the league. Wade never had that problem as he always dominated every team regardless of how good they were defensively.

Defenses honed in on T-Mac far more intensely than they do Wade as he was viewed as a more potent offensive threat.

[Micku]

Did you even watch Tmac play or are you just looking up stats?

Wade can't even come off curls, can't go left, post on either side of the block, can't hit you with the 1,2 dribble pull up, etc.etc. etc.

Tmac also shot more 3pointers than Wade, and not necessarily because he was Kobe dumb, but because the defense harassed him like no player since MJ. He'd get doubled and triple teamed more frequently, than any player today, and he didn't have help to take away the pressure.

Tmac's height also helped him as a passer, he gave teams mismatch problems that Wade doesn't. Reason why he didn't average more assists is because he actually din't run point forward like Bron. His system was different, he played differently, but in the moments he did run the offense, he was just as good as Bron, setting up teammates, finding open men, making pin point laser like passes and he was just as willing/unselfish as Bron as well.

Kinda easy to dismiss Tmac now, but I remember even Riley saying how he was the closest to MJ at one point (or something similar).

He did do that. And he was better at coming off through screens back then with the catch and shoot. He didn't do it as often as the iso jumper, which did do a couple of dribbles and pull up in your face. I don't know where all of that went the following years. He didn't post up much back then, and I don't remember if he couldn't go to his left. I find it unusual that he couldn't though.

With that said though, T-Mac was better off the ball. Wade was basically the point guard of the team, so he had the ball mainly in his hands. Not as much as LeBron, but still more than T-Mac. And Wade was better at finishing at the rim than T-Mac, and didn't take as many 3s (cuz he sucked in comparison), and a bit better shot selection. This all contribute to his better FG%, but T-Mac was the better shooter.

And back then, Vince Carter, Kobe, T-Mac, Stackhouse, Iverson were all compared to Jordan and saying how they were the closest to MJ almost every year there was another player.

[Micku]

Defenses honed in on T-Mac far more intensely than they do Wade as he was viewed as a more potent offensive threat.

That's not true. They just couldn't stop Wade because he was too quick. The Celtics in 2010 with Paul Pierce said that they tried to stop Wade, but couldn't in the playoffs. In 2006, him and Shaq were the main threat and the Pistons couldn't stop either of them.

The Hawks had the athleticism to keep up with Wade, but he was dealing with back spasms that series.

[LoneyROY7]

Defenses honed in on T-Mac far more intensely than they do Wade as he was viewed as a more potent offensive threat.

Completely subjective. That statement can't be validated one way or the other.

[PJR]

This dude really said Wade has no two dribble pull-up? U gotta be shittin me.

That's a got damn patented move of Wade. Dudes on here lie with no shame. :oldlol:

[Bigsmoke]

Wade

[andgar923]

ROFL @ Wade coming off curls.

The mufuhka just started doing that the past 2 years or so, and he aint nowhere as consistent as Tmac, let alone a threat.

His entire game is based on using picks WITH the ball, which is different than coming off curls. Wade has never been anywhere close to Tmac at playing off the ball, and he's only good with the ball when he's driving. His pull up at his best is still inconsistent and sloppy. Let alone having a 1-2 pull up dribble that Tmac had. Tmac would hit you with the pull up with ease from anywhere on the court, on any angle/position

[macpierce]

tmac was more well rounded offensively, wade was more efficient and better at attacking the basket. Wade's defense is better, great shot blocker. Also wade is proven in the playoffs so I go with wade.

To be honest with you, when you talk about tmac in his prime it feels like it was so long ago back in his Orlando days. When he was with houston he was never as good as orlando tmac...So it's been roughly a decade since tmac's prime

hmmm

[TheCorporation]

Dwyane Wade

[Micku]

ROFL @ Wade coming off curls.

The mufuhka just started doing that the past 2 years or so, and he aint nowhere as consistent as Tmac, let alone a threat.

His entire game is based on using picks WITH the ball, which is different than coming off curls. Wade has never been anywhere close to Tmac at playing off the ball, and he's only good with the ball when he's driving. His pull up at his best is still inconsistent and sloppy. Let alone having a 1-2 pull up dribble that Tmac had. Tmac would hit you with the pull up with ease from anywhere on the court, on any angle/position… simply deadly.

You didn't watch enough 2008-09 D-Wade then.

He did came off curls and had a catch and shoot move. But, he didn't do that as often as the 1-2 pull up dribble you are saying that he didn't have. The fact that you said he didn't have that and he was inconsistent that year about it, is evidence that you didn't watch him enough of Wade. After that year he was inconsistent, yeah. But not in that specific year. Where did it all go? I dunno.

You are right that he does dominate the ball, which he use picks with the ball. He did that a lot too. But not as much as LeBron and he was better off the ball than you what you are mentioning.

[KOBE143]

Peak TMac - better talent, better scoring, better defense, better overall player with no refs help..

Peak Wade - bf with the refs, love by the refs, help by the refs.. Wade without refs is nothing.. Refs made him the player he was.. D-Whistle..

[plowking]

I'm going to pick opposite to what andgar picked, purely because andgar actually came to that decision. Simply because he is wrong in 100% of these types of threads. By "these type of threads", I simply mean basketball threads. Hes retarded is what I'm trying to get at.

[veilside23]

tmac .... its not even funny...

[andgar923]

You didn't watch enough 2008-09 D-Wade then.

He did came off curls and had a catch and shoot move. But, he didn't do that as often as the 1-2 pull up dribble you are saying that he didn't have. The fact that you said he didn't have that and he was inconsistent that year about it, is evidence that you didn't watch him enough of Wade. After that year he was inconsistent, yeah. But not in that specific year. Where did it all go? I dunno.

You are right that he does dominate the ball, which he use picks with the ball. He did that a lot too. But not as much as LeBron and he was better off the ball than you what you are mentioning.

Wade is my fav player.

:facepalm

I've seen plenty of Wade, probably more than anybody here. I know his game inside and out. He can do some of the things you guys claim he does, on a very limited basis, if and when he does do them.

His strengths are his speed and slashing.

When he's hot, he can get some shots off, but only when he's hot. What he does when he's hot, is the type of shit Tmac, Kobe, Melo and others did on an avg night. What made Wade special was his ability to explode and keep attacking while he was hot. Most players start taking long shots when they're hot, Wade would keep attacking.

One thing that I still hate about Wade is the fact that he goes to his left 98% of the time.

I started off by saying he's my fav player, I need to clarify that.

He USED to be my fav player. But he's frustrated me with his inability to improve, with his lack of focus and at times desire to play. I'm done screaming at the tv when he starts to feel down on himself, then start pumping his chest after a dunk trying to psych himself up.

[Fudge]

Dwyane Wade is better. Really no reason to go in depth about it either. Wade is simply better.

If I needed to win one game, I'd want Wade over McGrady on my team anyday of the week. Twice on Sundays.

Only suckers for aesthetics would chose T-Mac over Wade.
:roll:

[Micku]

Wade is my fav player.

:facepalm

I've seen plenty of Wade, probably more than anybody here. I know his game inside and out. He can do some of the things you guys claim he does, on a very limited basis, if and when he does do them.

His strengths are his speed and slashing.

When he's hot, he can get some shots off, but only when he's hot. What he does when he's hot, is the type of shit Tmac, Kobe, Melo and others did on an avg night. What made Wade special was his ability to explode and keep attacking while he was hot. Most players start taking long shots when they're hot, Wade would keep attacking.

What you say is inconsistent with his game in 2008-09 then. It makes me believe that you didn't see enough of him or you don't remember what he did that year.

You deny his pull range game and say it was inconsistent on the year he shot the best from midrange as evidence by the stats that I posted earlier in the thread. Very comparable to T-Mac's midrange game that year. Then you deny the style of play he used to have with his dribble up pull up game or his off the ball movement.

Back in that year, his mid-range was not inconsistent and he didn't just hit when he was hot either. He was almost automatic at the mid-range. Not only did he shot the most from midrange that year, his percentage was great. You can see it in almost all the basketball sites that records the % made/miss of which player shoot. His numbers was very comparable to T-Mac's 2002-03 year. It's actually better in the 10-15 feet. We can check it out now since we have the stats of how well they do from the mid-range game now. I wouldn't be surprise if Wade got most of his points from the midrange game back then. I haven't checked, but he took the most attempts from the midrange that year than any other season. And his % was very good.

Stats back up Wade's good mid-range game, but watching him play to see how he got them is another too. He did came off of curls and iso take a couple of dribbles and pull up into the defender face. He iso'd a whole lot more than he did the curls, and you say didn't do any of that stuff. I don't know what else to tell you other than he did.

I do agree T-Mac is better off the ball and is the better shooter overall though.

[Money 23]

Did Dwyane Wade ever carry a weak squad past the 1st round by himself?
Nope.

Technically, neither did Kobe Bryant.

The only perimeter players to lead a weaker squad as underdog over another superior team was Michael Jordan and LeBron James.

[The_Yearning]

Wow Andgar actually spitting truths here. Outside of cell phones, dude knows his stuff.

T-Mac was an offensive juggernaut. Just imagine a Durant that can dribble, dunk, more athletic, can post up, and all that. Better yet, just imagine a taller and longer Kobe.

[Duncan21formvp]

Did Dwyane Wade ever carry a weak squad past the 1st round by himself?
He won a championship where he was the only one who was dominating.

[HiphopRelated]

He won a championship where he was the only one who was dominating.
2005, Shaq was in a suit vs the Wizards

Wade didn't lose a game to Arenas til '08...I used to wish we could get the Wizards every year.

[Smoke117]

Wade was a better defender, finisher, better playmaker, and had better shot selection.

T-Mac was a better scorer, better ball handling skills, more versatile, could move better off the ball. Could play PG, SG, SF.

I think peak Wade was better because his defense capability. Although peak T-Mac was more of a threat all areas of the floor, peak D-Wade was more efficient and had a mid range game in his peak.

:wtf: You are joking right? Tracy Mcgrady was a better ball handler than Dwyane Wade. What a god damn ****ing joke.

[secund2nun]

I'm baffled this was even asked. Wade is the clear answer. The guy had a greater will to win than McGrady ever had. If McGrady had a killer instinct, we'd be talking Hall of Fame here and a different answer to the question.

No he doesn't. Wade played with Shaq and Lebron. In the seasons after Shaq and before Lebron, prime Wade could not even win a playoff series...sound familiar? (Hint-Tmac, Kobe).

[HardwoodLegend]

:wtf: You are joking right? Tracy Mcgrady was a better ball handler than Dwyane Wade. What a god damn ****ing joke.

Either you don't remember or have never seen this commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiY67Z57FPU

"Where would I be without handles?! Game over EHNNNNNNT!"

[STATUTORY]

:wtf: You are joking right? Tracy Mcgrady was a better ball handler than Dwyane Wade. What a god damn ****ing joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3jTaT3pYFE&feature=related

when has Wade done anything as impressive as that?

riddle me that

[Orlando Magic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V94-Ath0UUc

All I know is Wade can't throw the ball that far with that little effort.

[PJR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3jTaT3pYFE&feature=related

when has Wade done anything as impressive as that?

riddle me that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXT9VSh7YA0

When has McGrady done anything as impressive as this?

riddle me that

[Orlando Magic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXT9VSh7YA0

When has McGrady done anything as impressive as this?

riddle me that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-8FksMVAdU

When has Wade done anything as impressive as that?

riddle me that

[plowking]

Are people trying to argue McGrady is a better ballhandler? Really?

Wade was the one known for his deadly crossover. I can never remember that being mentioned as a big selling point about McGrady's game. Or that I myself was ever that impressed by it. Both have nice handles, but Wade is a class above.

[Money 23]

Wade was the one known for his deadly crossover. I can never remember that being mentioned as a big selling point about McGrady's game. Or that I myself was ever that impressed by it. Both have nice handles, but Wade is a class above.
T-Mac had crazy handle, and a vicious crossover.

Wade is not a class above. Not like your biased or anything. :oldlol:

They are on the same level.

[plowking]

T-Mac had crazy handle, and a vicious crossover.

Wade is not a class above. Not like your biased or anything. :oldlol:

They are on the same level.

Nah. Tracy used to dribble the ball much higher, and was never as proficient as pulling off moves like Wade. I've seen Wade split double teams going through his legs, behind his back, etc. McGrady was never pulling that shit off.

[HardwoodLegend]

Nah. Tracy used to dribble the ball much higher, and was never as proficient as pulling off moves like Wade. I've seen Wade split double teams going through his legs, behind his back, etc. McGrady was never pulling that shit off.

He's had some impressive moves in his career... maybe not better than Wade, but relatively speaking he's right there when you take into account everything else.

Keep in mind that we're comparing 6'8 to 6'4. Players generally have weaker handles the taller they get.

[magnax1]

You can check the stats for it now actually.

Wade in 2008-09:

10 to 15 ft- 44% FG

80 FG with 182 FGA

16 ft to 3-pt- 41.9% FG

255FG with 609 FGA

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/shooting/2009/


T-Mac in 2002-03:

10 to 15 ft- 41.7% FG

78 FG with 187 FGA

16 ft to 3-pt- 43.6 % FG

282 FG with 647 FGA

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01/shooting/2003/

As the stats show, peak Wade was close to T-Mac. Virtually equal. It just that Wade was a better finisher and T-Mac was the better 3pt and FT shooter.

But you can defend players better back then than now, so that accounts for something too. Probably driving to the basket. Still doesn't change the fact that Wade was a killer with his midrange j though.
That's a very flawed argument. Its like saying Lebron is a better shooter than kobe because he shoots better %s from midrange. It might be true, but it's not because he's a better shooter. It's because players give him room while defending, while people really haven't respected Kobe much as a slasher since 08.

[Micku]

That's a very flawed argument. Its like saying Lebron is a better shooter than kobe because he shoots better %s from midrange. It might be true, but it's not because he's a better shooter. It's because players give him room while defending, while people really haven't respected Kobe much as a slasher since 08.

1. How is this a flawed argument? This is nothing but facts. If I post the 3pt shot and player A > player B in %, then player A just shot better from the 3pt land.

2. For the defense issue, Wade was not only the leading scorer on his team, but in the whole league that season. After a few games you would think teams would have scouts say "Hey, this guy Wade improved on his midrange. D him up."

The biggest problem about guarding Wade that season was that he was a great slasher, finisher, and close to automatic at mid range. How can you guard a person that could not only beat you off the dribble, use picks, and shoot a mid-range J to your face. It was difficult. They had to send help. Which they did if you watched him play that season, but Wade was also a good passer and playmaker.

People also said that Shaq freed him up, which is why he shot a very high percentage from the field. But at that year, he was great at attacking the rim and mid-range. And he did it at a consistent basis throughout the 79 games that he played.


3. I never said that Wade was the better shooter, because you have to take into account the the 3pt shooting and FTs too. Wade sucks at the 3pt shot while T-Mac was much better. And T-Mac was a bit better with FTs. However, you can be very good at the mid-range game, but not be a good 3pt shooter.

Some players have good years at certain areas, but won't be as good at it in other years. This was the case with Wade. He was very good that year, but never been as good since. And since this is about peak Wade vs peak T-mac, then you have to mention his mid-range j. Just like if you mention peak Kobe, or peak Dirk, or Duncan. They did things much better in their peaks than later on their careers like you mention. In Wade's case it was his mid-range game. I see nothing wrong or flawed about it.

[Money 23]

Nah. Tracy used to dribble the ball much higher, and was never as proficient as pulling off moves like Wade. I've seen Wade split double teams going through his legs, behind his back, etc. McGrady was never pulling that shit off.
Nope ... try again, kiddo.

Your homerism knows no bounds though, does it? You can't admit you might be tad biased or having an agenda here?

T-Mac didn't dribble the ball much higher. Stop talking like you know what you're talking about. You probably weren't even a fan at the time, your baby nuts were in Australia watching rugby with your father.

I've seen McGrady split doubles too, so please just don't. They both have handle. To even act like Wade is a tier above is beyond ridiculous.

Wade's signature move isn't even the crossover, it's the pull back between the legs after the crossover. You don't even know your favorite player's most devastating move.

I don't expect then in turn for you to know what you're talking about in regards to McGrady. Or anyone else for that matter.

Watch and learn ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4XH1cnvho

Where is he dribbling high in that clip? In fact, he's dribbling extremely low. Especially considering Wade is closer to the ground at 6'3 / 6'4 and Mac is in the 6'8 / 6'9 border line 6'10 range given his length.

It's more than obvious in regards to this conversation a) you have an agenda, b) you don't know what you're talking about and c) you have a Wade jersey on right now.

Stop being a kum dump for Miami Heat basketball, and be objective.

Wade and Mac on the same level of elite ball handling skills. Both are superstars that saw constant double teams and still used their handle to create for themselves and their teammates.

:coleman:

[plowking]

Nope ... try again, kiddo.

Your homerism knows no bounds though, does it? You can't admit you might be tad biased or having an agenda here?

Everyone is biased. Its an opinion. Its biased from the get go.


T-Mac didn't dribble the ball much higher. Stop talking like you know what you're talking about. You probably weren't even a fan at the time, your baby nuts were in Australia watching rugby with your father.

Yes he did. He was/is still one of my favorite players. I wasn't born in Australia... So I didn't grow up watching rugby.


I've seen McGrady split doubles too, so please just don't. They both have handle. To even act like Wade is a tier above is beyond ridiculous.

A lot of players have split doubles. Wade is probably the best ever at it. Put that in with his combinations of how he does it, and its ridiculous.


Wade's signature move isn't even the crossover, it's the pull back between the legs after the crossover. You don't even know your favorite player's most devastating move.

The pullback between the legs is still a crossover move... You don't know basic basketball if that's the case then.


I don't expect then in turn for you to know what you're talking about in regards to McGrady. Or anyone else for that matter.

Watch and learn ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4XH1cnvho


Nice crossover on Robert Traylor, the 300lbs guy.


Where is he dribbling high in that clip? In fact, he's dribbling extremely low. Especially considering Wade is closer to the ground at 6'3 / 6'4 and Mac is in the 6'8 / 6'9 border line 6'10 range given his length.

Of course. A 20 second clip to explain everything. I'm guessing McGrady missed every shot in his career too? If that is what you're using as evidence for his whole career, I will gladly say Wade was a far superior shooter than too. And a better scorer, since McGrady didn't score a point.


It's more than obvious in regards to this conversation a) you have an agenda, b) you don't know what you're talking about and c) you have a Wade jersey on right now.

a) I don't. Its my opinion. My biased opinion. Just like anyone's is.
b) I clearly do. McGrady and Hardaway are the only two Orlando players I've ever liked and closely watched.
c) No. Its in the wardrobe. I might bust out the jersey later.


Stop being a kum dump for Miami Heat basketball, and be objective.

Wade and Mac on the same level of elite ball handling skills. Both are superstars that saw constant double teams and still used their handle to create for themselves and their teammates.

:coleman:

McGrady is one of my favorite players, and while he did have an aesthetically pleasing game, that one season of his gets overrated. I remember watching back then, and I don't ever remember thinking he was as good as Kobe that season, like many on here like to claim now, 10 years later.

[Callystarr]

McGrady...great overall player...

[magnax1]

3. I never said that Wade was the better shooter, because you have to take into account the the 3pt shooting and FTs too. Wade sucks at the 3pt shot while T-Mac was much better. And T-Mac was a bit better with FTs. However, you can be very good at the mid-range game, but not be a good 3pt shooter.

Some players have good years at certain areas, but won't be as good at it in other years. This was the case with Wade. He was very good that year, but never been as good since. And since this is about peak Wade vs peak T-mac, then you have to mention his mid-range j. Just like if you mention peak Kobe, or peak Dirk, or Duncan. They did things much better in their peaks than later on their careers like you mention. In Wade's case it was his mid-range game. I see nothing wrong or flawed about it.
Wade just wasn't as good of a mid range shooter, plain and simple. He shot a better % because of the fact that he's one of the greatest slashers ever and gets a lot of room for those shots. I never said he didn't shoot pretty well that season, but if teams had played him the same way they did TMac, he wouldn't have shot that well from that area.

[Micku]

Wade just wasn't as good of a mid range shooter, plain and simple. He shot a better % because of the fact that he's one of the greatest slashers ever and gets a lot of room for those shots. I never said he didn't shoot pretty well that season, but if teams had played him the same way they did TMac, he wouldn't have shot that well from that area.

He was very good that year, and that year only. He never step up to that level again. The % that I posted was shot location, which shows that he shot a high %. Virtually equal to T-Mac. Plus, teams gave Wade more space in 2010-11 when LBJ team up with Wade than 2008-09, but he could never hit the jumper like he did at his peak. And teams couldn't really afford to double team Wade with LeBron on the team unlike in 2009.

He took the most shots 16 ft to 3-pt than he ever had before and after that year. And had his best percentage. 10 to 15 ft was very good.

Right now, the only argument is really about defense. But how can that be when Wade was always a great scorer before, and was the best scorer in the league that year. Both T-Mac and Wade were both in similar situations. Yet somehow they sag behind Wade who was shooting at a career high around 42% at 16 ft to 3-pt and 44% at 10 to 15 ft? And was the leading the league in scoring? Basically single handily giving the Heat wins that year.

You can say it was a fluke year in his midrange game, sure. But the opponent teams did try to stop him, but couldn't. Why wouldn't try to stop the only person that can cause you to lose?

[Horatio33]

Wade: he is mentally tougher.

[Johnni Gade]

Wade.

[Hoopz2332]

I like T-Mac and I thought at his best he was better/more all around better than Kobe but his peak isn't better than wade's peak as far as all around impact. Wade is probably the only player on the perimeter that can come close to matching Lebrons's all around impact and eff that I've seen in the 2000's era.

T-mac had a better handle than D wade?:biggums: :roll:

[TheNaturalWR]

Wade just wasn't as good of a mid range shooter, plain and simple. He shot a better % because of the fact that he's one of the greatest slashers ever and gets a lot of room for those shots. I never said he didn't shoot pretty well that season, but if teams had played him the same way they did TMac, he wouldn't have shot that well from that area.

You act like Wade was given Rondo treatment.....The dude was the best player in the league that year and if you watched the games you would know "getting a lot of room" was far from the case.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Extremely close, too close to say one was definitely better, but I'll give '03 T-Mac the edge over '09 Wade. T-Mac was better offensively. He was clearly a better shooter and he had an incredible 3 point shooting season in addition to his all around scoring skill set second to only Jordan and Kobe among shooting guards, imo. He could get his shot off at any time, from any distance. He also had an excellent footwork, an array of moves, and was one of the best off the dribble, finishing, plus he could post up. Wade had the advantage going to the basket, but T-Mac didn't settle that season and could get to the rim and finish whenever he wanted. So I'd definitely call T-Mac the better scorer, not by a huge margin, but enough to not change my opinion. Playmaking is close, but I prefer T-Mac for pure passing and court vision. He also turned the ball over very little for a player who had to carry the entire offense almost by himself. Defense is definitely an advantage Wade had, and it's bigger than the gaps between them offensively, but offense is more important for a 2 guard, imo.

Both were easily at their best these seasons. I think Wade was at his best in just about every facet of the game, except his post game and slashing. He regained his explosiveness and was stronger than when he was young, but he mixed up his game much more and played more under control. This was why becoming so much better as a shooter elevated his game so much. Not only was his mid-range game excellent, but he became a legit 3 point threat for the first time. He wasn't a great 3 point shooter, but you had to respect that part of his game now because it wasn't uncommon for him to step into a 3, and he was capable of making 4-5 in a game when he was hot. He shot them really well after the break. I also think he did his best job as a playmaker, and as I mentioned before, he was more under control which cut down on his turnovers. When Wade was younger, you pretty much knew he was going to the basket, but there was more to his game at that point. It was also easily the best defensive season he's had.

With T-Mac, he obviously developed a lot from his early years with his shooting improving dramatically, his handle getting tighter and his footwork getting a lot better, though he was already pretty damn close to his '03 level as far as skills and ability by '02. I'd say his defense was better in '02, actually. But the difference between '02 and '03 for T-Mac was mainly becoming a more prolific 3 point shooter, just being on target more consistently with his shooting and being more aggressive. Plus, he had to pick up some of the slack of Orlando's deteriorating backcourt with Darrell Armstrong aging.