on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

one of the greatest to ever do it. constantly disrespected. constantly overlooked. constantly underrated.

there is rarely a stat for it. it is measured by watching games. there isn't always a steal. there isn't always a block. but theres always great foot work.

the most unappreciated kind of defender. it requires more talent than a big man due to handchecking rules being 100 times more constant on the perimeter

just watch the video and understand why he has 9 first team all defensive awards. the most in nba history

[LoneyROY7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

one of the greatest to ever do it. constantly disrespected. constantly overlooked. constantly underrated.

there is rarely a stat for it. it is measured by watching games. there isn't always a steal. there isn't always a block. but theres always great foot work.

the most unappreciated kind of defender. it requires more talent than a big man due to handchecking rules being 100 times more severe on the perimeter

just watch the video and understand why he has 9 first team all defensive awards. the most in nba history

Let me guess, that video you posted is of Kobe.

:coleman:

[LAClipsFan33]

The real reason why he has 9 1st Team All Defensive Awards is that it has become a very sad popularity contest

[Just2McFly]

http://i45.tinypic.com/14438jt.png

[andremiller07]

The best on ball perimeter defense I have seen did involve Kobe Bryant but he was the one getting shutdown back when they faced Detriot in the finals and LINDSEY HUNTER who had the most insane lateral quickness just shut him down I have literally never seen defense like that since that guy at that point of his career was a monster on D.

[fpliii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

one of the greatest to ever do it. constantly disrespected. constantly overlooked. constantly underrated.

there is rarely a stat for it. it is measured by watching games. there isn't always a steal. there isn't always a block. but theres always great foot work.

the most unappreciated kind of defender. it requires more talent than a big man due to handchecking rules being 100 times more constant on the perimeter

just watch the video and understand why he has 9 first team all defensive awards. the most in nba history

Historically not so much, but since the latest hand-checking guidlelines were implemented I agree to some extent. Being able to shut your man down without getting called for a foul is huge in today's league (since the mid-2000s). Various rule changes:

[plowking]

That was nice, but call me when he does it as good as Lebron. That guy is way better than him at it.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The real reason why he has 9 1st Team All Defensive Awards is that it has become a very sad popularity contest

Kobe working his voodoo to get NBA coaches to vote for him. Too bad the advanced stat brigade wasn't around to statistically validate Jordan's all defensive team selections every year. :oldlol:

[HardwoodLegend]

The best on ball perimeter defense I have seen did involve Kobe Bryant but he was the one getting shutdown back when they faced Detriot in the finals and LINDSEY HUNTER who had the most insane lateral quickness just shut him down I have literally never seen defense like that since that guy at that point of his career was a monster on D.

:oldlol:

It's so funny to see kengriffin's parades get rained upon.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The best on ball perimeter defense I have seen did involve Kobe Bryant but he was the one getting shutdown back when they faced Detriot in the finals and LINDSEY HUNTER who had the most insane lateral quickness just shut him down I have literally never seen defense like that since that guy at that point of his career was a monster on D.

Lindsey Hunter averaged 13 mins a game in the Finals and shot .29% from the field. :confusedshrug:

[Heavincent]

Kobe is a great defender when he wants to be, but he didn't deserve an all defensive selection last year. It was an absolute crime that Thabo Sefolosha didn't make an all defensive team. He is arguably the best defender in the entire league. Dude is a superstar killer.

Kobe was arguably the best perimeter defender in his prime though.

[Spaulding]

Didnt even have to click on the video or read the post. Saw the op and knew who the post was about.

:coleman:

[Round Mound]

I Still Don`t Understand Why His Defensive Rating and Defensive WIn Share is Not Elite At All. And Yeah Broken Down Stats Like PER are Useless even Though MJ had The Highest Ever :confusedshrug:

[andremiller07]

Lindsey Hunter averaged 13 mins a game in the Finals and shot .29% from the field. :confusedshrug:

Yeap and for those 13 mins he terrorised the Lakers backcourt badly at the age of like 37

[inclinerator]

40 seconds for 1 play r u kidding me

[LAClipsFan33]

Kobe working his voodoo to get NBA coaches to vote for him. Too bad the advanced stat brigade wasn't around to statistically validate Jordan's all defensive team selections every year. :oldlol:

I don't need anybody to validate. I watched both live. Kobe has been bad on defense the majority of the time for years

[Heavincent]

Kobe has been bad on defense the majority of the time for years

:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yeap and for those 13 mins he terrorised the Lakers backcourt badly at the age of like 37

Seems unlikely given the fact he had a +2 on/off court rating in a series in which his team outscored the Lakers by 45. :confusedshrug:

[LAClipsFan33]

:facepalm

In the last 3 - 4 years Kobe has been one of the laziest perimeter defenders in the entire league. Deal with it.

Anybody who actually knows what they're watching and isn't just a hopeless dick rider knows this

[andremiller07]

Seems unlikely given the fact he had a +2 on/off court rating in a series in which his team outscored the Lakers by 45. :confusedshrug:

Well i guess you didn't watch the NBA 2004 Finals

[Smoke117]

First Team All Defensive players put it all out there 100% of the time. The Hakeem Olajuwons, David Robinson, Scottie Pippens. Kobe Bryant was always inconsistent and lazy unless it was a "big marquee game".

[LAClipsFan33]

First Team All Defensive players put it all out there 100% of the time. The Hakeem Olajuwons, David Robinson, Scottie Pippens. Kobe Bryant was always inconsistent and lazy unless it was a "big marquee game".

:applause:

[flipogb]

Kobe doesn't play lockdown D for the most part, but he is capable of it which is not something everyone can say

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Well i guess you didn't watch the NBA 2004 Finals

I'll make sure to rewatch it again to see if 13 min a game player who at best held his opposition to as terrible of shooting percentages as he himself put up was the main reason for the teams victory. :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe is a lazy on ball defender these days. Has been for years now.

Otherwise, I agree. That facet of defense is "unappreciated".

[Yao Ming's Foot]

First Team All Defensive players put it all out there 100% of the time. The Hakeem Olajuwons, David Robinson, Scottie Pippens. Kobe Bryant was always inconsistent and lazy unless it was a "big marquee game".

Kobe didn't win any of his awards over Hakeem, David Robinson or Scottie Pippen. :confusedshrug:

[andremiller07]

I'll make sure to rewatch it again to see if 13 min a game player who at best held his opposition to as terrible of shooting percentages as he himself put up was the main reason for the teams victory. :facepalm

lol where did I say any of that I said that the limited mins Linsdey played on Kobe thats the best I have seen anyone ever defend him in any period of time. That the the only time I have seen Kobe look lost and actually trying to get rid of the ball cause he couldn't do anything with it. Prince, Rip, Ben Sheed, Billups were the reason they won.

My point was the best single act of perimeter defense I have seen was Hunter on Bryant during the Finals not that Hunter was the best or that he won them the title.

[no pun intended]

It's funny to note that the biggest weakness of the Lakers is their perimeter defense. Sure, Kobe can play great perimeter defense. But honestly, and this is coming from someone who watches every Laker game, Kobe does not always put in as much effort into his perimeter defense as shown in the video, especially when there are incoming screens.

[LAClipsFan33]

It's funny to note that the biggest weakness of the Lakers is their perimeter defense. Sure, Kobe can play great perimeter defense. But honestly, and this is coming from someone who watches every Laker game, Kobe does not always put in as much effort into his perimeter defense as shown in the video, especially when there are incoming screens.

This.

I watch about 40-50 games though

[tmacattack33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

one of the greatest to ever do it. constantly disrespected. constantly overlooked. constantly underrated.

there is rarely a stat for it. it is measured by watching games. there isn't always a steal. there isn't always a block. but theres always great foot work.

the most unappreciated kind of defender. it requires more talent than a big man due to handchecking rules being 100 times more constant on the perimeter

just watch the video and understand why he has 9 first team all defensive awards. the most in nba history

Bleh, just as you can't gain much from using stats on defense, you can't gain much by watching a highlight video.

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe's defense has been incredibly inconsistent since 2009. It reached liability standards in 2011 though.

[KG215]

Kobe = GOAT perimeter defender and easily top 10 defender all-time.

If you don't believe me, look at how many 1st team All-Defenses he has. Not to mention, big men are only considered better and higher impact defenders because they're taller and play closer to the basket where they can rack up blocks.

More or less something OP said in a different Kobe thread he created either today or last night. He starts at least one new Kobe thread per day so I forget when it was, exactly.

[La Frescobaldi]

The real reason why he has 9 1st Team All Defensive Awards is that it has become a very sad popularity contest

the NBA coaches don't vote for the all-defensive teams anymore?

[LAClipsFan33]

the NBA coaches don't vote for the all-defensive teams anymore?

Yes they do. Popularity contest never the less. Even coaches are not immune to the media hype machine

[Micku]

First Team All Defensive players put it all out there 100% of the time. The Hakeem Olajuwons, David Robinson, Scottie Pippens. Kobe Bryant was always inconsistent and lazy unless it was a "big marquee game".

Depends on the year.

In 2011, he didn't deserve it. Tony Allen did.

In 2010, Duncan didn't deserve it. Andrew Bogut did.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yes they do. Popularity contest never the less. Even coaches are not immune to the media hype machine

And let me guess the phenomenon of superstar players getting the nod over no name role players for all defensive teams began and will end with Kobe Bryant. :oldlol:

[andgar923]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

one of the greatest to ever do it. constantly disrespected. constantly overlooked. constantly underrated.

there is rarely a stat for it. it is measured by watching games. there isn't always a steal. there isn't always a block. but theres always great foot work.

the most unappreciated kind of defender. it requires more talent than a big man due to handchecking rules being 100 times more constant on the perimeter

just watch the video and understand why he has 9 first team all defensive awards. the most in nba history

LOL the most overrated defender of all time.

Funny you mention it, but even the very first play of the video Van Gundy states that when "he wants too" he's a great defender. I don't deny that, but he doesn't want too often enough, and his lack of interest and mistakes outweigh his moment of brief intensity. There's also a flip side to his brief encounter with wanting to play defense, and that's him getting beat due to his aggressiveness. It's almost comical whenever he stares and makes those stupid faces and then gets beat with ease due to his overzealousness.

[LAClipsFan33]

And let me guess the phenomenon of superstar players getting the nod over no name role players for all defensive teams began and will end with Kobe Bryant. :oldlol:

It's not just Kobe. If your popular and you can play decent D your in...so help me Chris Paul. I'll be damned if he's ever been the best defensive PG

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It's not just Kobe. If your popular and you can play decent D your in...so help me Chris Paul. I'll be damned if he's ever been the best defensive PG

or Michael Jordan or Larry Bird or Jerry West or Lebron James or any other legend whom Kobe is compared to :confusedshrug:

To single out Kobe for getting a superstar bias in all defensive team voting is to act like that bias does not predate Kobe or to act like Kobe is the only superstar in league history.

But please go ahead and carry on about Thabo's 20 mins of awesome defense a game being robbed of an award that he would never win in any era.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Too old. doesn't really try until it matters in his mind.

Lebron going down the same road, no way in hell does he deserve to be all defensive ahead of guys like Smith and Iguodala.

You have to wonder how Chris Paul keeps making these teams too, he's on the lower spectrum point guard defenders (which is ovverated in the league today) even when he tries.

At least Kobe and Lebron are elite when they try.

[plowking]

Lebron going down the same road, no way in hell does he deserve to be all defensive ahead of guys like Smith and Iguodala.


Interesting, since Lebron holds his opponents to lower overall production than both of those guys.

[BoutPractice]

Kobe used to be a very good defender (though not as spectacular as his accolades suggest).
Now he's become a liability. And it's not because he's old or slow, strangely enough it's because he doesn't seem to try anymore and makes simple mental mistakes, often forgetting where his opponent is.

Incidentally, I would say off the ball defense is both more important and more unappreciated than on the ball defense.
Losing track of a player you're supposed to guard, not contesting the passing lane, gambling and allowing him to make a backdoor cut, rotating to the wrong player, not rotating at all, not hedging on pick'n'rolls for big men... Those kill teams.

[Nero Tulip]

Kobe is a ridiculously overrated defender who constantly forgets his man, is clueless on spacing, makes dumb mistakes all the time (and then yells on his teammate when he's the one screwing up).

But anyway Kobe fans are like religious fanatics, the more they hear the truth the more they try to ignore it so...yeah keep living in your dream world.

[Warners0]

If anyone really thinks that Kobe Bryant really earned all those 1st All defensive first teams they need their head examined.

[aau]

This.

I watch about 40-50 games though

doesn't matter how many games you watch

if you don't know what you're looking at

now let's see . . . . . . nba coaches, or

.

.

.

you

[Money 23]

Kobe's defense has been incredibly inconsistent since 2009. It reached liability standards in 2011 though.
His defense was pretty bad in his two high scoring seasons (2006 and 2007) Kobe stans always forget that fact.

He put in quality effort in 2008, and the results shows. He echoed his defensive abilities from 2000, 2001, and 2002 in that season.

2009 and 2010, he did it when he wanted to ... not consistently, but when he was focused he could lock people up.

See his series changing defense on Westbrook in the 2010 playoffs, when Russ had OKC on the verge of an upset given how he was abusing Fisher.

2011 on he hasn't been much of a defender, period. Even in the Olympics, without having to score or playmake, he wasn't much of a defender either.

[Anaximandro1]

one of the greatest to ever do it. constantly disrespected. constantly overlooked. constantly underrated.

:bowdown: Bruce

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1019335/BRUCEBOWENDEFENSE.jpg