Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

[ripthekik]

It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left, and now 1 year without Lebron, he is straight balling?

http://s9.postimage.org/8q7dnls25/Captur1e.jpg
He goes into double digit in scoring and rebound AFTER Lebron left.

Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better? Hell, Wade had a very good career as a top 3 player in the league when Lebron joined and what happened to him now? Bosh was his franchise's leader for 7 years, as soon as he leaves to Miami he is simply an star forward who gets disrespected :roll:

Look at all the clues here, guys. Why are all Lebron teams just a one-man team, consisting of him doing everything? Fact: Lebron doesn't make anyone better, he makes his stats look better, that's all.

[andremiller07]

It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left

Because over time players get better when they work on there weaknesses and are asked to do more,

He also allowed below avg players like Eric Snow (at the time he sucked), Sasha Pavlovic to be solid starters


Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better?
Bosh is having a career year shooting like 60% and Wade's been slowed down by injuries and has to do less, just cause you do less doesn't mean someone doesn't make you better.

[Nick Young]

Varejao has always been extremely underrated. I see him as Joachim Noah with a better offensive game. Yes Varejao still has no midrange shot and he can look like a clumsy lummox, but at the same time I've seen Varejao do a ton of really sweet iso moves and spin moves and get his own shot on occassion. Every time he did something awesome Lebron would be given all the credit even if it was a simple entry pass. Great big man. A quality garbage man that occassionally has flashes of brilliance on offense. Every team in the league would want this guy, just not necessarily as a starter.

[Segatti]

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/rajon-rondo-lebron-is-a-bitch-530x530.jpg

[STATUTORY]

ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh

[MichaelCheazley]

It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left, and now 1 year without Lebron, he is straight balling?

http://s9.postimage.org/8q7dnls25/Captur1e.jpg
He goes into double digit in scoring and rebound AFTER Lebron left.

Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better? Hell, Wade had a very good career as a top 3 player in the league when Lebron joined and what happened to him now? Bosh was his franchise's leader for 7 years, as soon as he leaves to Miami he is simply an star forward who gets disrespected :roll:

Look at all the clues here, guys. Why are all Lebron teams just a one-man team, consisting of him doing everything? Fact: Lebron doesn't make anyone better, he makes his stats look better, that's all.

Wow so lebron makes his teammates worse yet he still manages to win 60 games with the cavs team, rape your celtics AND win and championship. Must be that damn good

[LEFT4DEAD]

Varejao is getting those numbers because he is playing more. Per 36 minutes he was double double almost every year in Cavs. Guy is playing almost 36 minutes per game this year. 10 minutes more in average than when Lebron was there.

And you are really expecting all three of them to have superstar numbers on one team? There is one basketball you know. Lebron's impact can be seen on players like Chalmers, Battier, Allen etc.

[andremiller07]

look at what happened to beasley smh

What happend hes completely lazy, has no interest in defending, hes a tweener and has not even gotten remotley better since he came into the L what happend exactly? He never played with Lebron ethier

[plowking]

Lebron taught Varejao well. Turned him into an all star after all these years. Finally put all the tools together that Lebron taught him.

Lebron da GOAT! Is it possible for him to get COTY as well guys? He deserves it after turning a scrub like Varejao into a decent player. GOAT player and coach.

[Sakkreth]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ripthekik again.

Meh atleast I can one star.

[Spaulding]

Mad Celtics fan is obvious.

I bet that game 6 in the playoffs made rethink your life huh.

[Djahjaga]

So, the same people that talk about how useless stats are are using stats to indicate whether or not Lebron is making his teammates better?

Of course their stats go down. If you put prime KG on a team with prime Ben Wallace (just thought of this, but it sounds f*cking awesome), are they both going to average 14 boards? If you put Stockton on a team with Magic, are they both going to average 12 assists?

A lot of stats are additive, meaning players can take stats away from each other depending on their role on the team.

Varejao is a great case of a player that has improved every year he's been in the league and now plays a much greater role on a team with less talent. Naturally, his numbers are going to increase. This doesn't mean that Lebron didn't make him a better player or that he made him worse. You could actually argue that Varejao wouldn't be playing like this if he hadn't ever played with Lebron.

Since you're a Celtics fan, I'll throw a Celtics example at you. When the Big 3 came together and their stats all decreased, did it mean that KG made Paul and Ray worse players? Or that they made him a worse player? Obviously not.

[MichaelCheazley]

What happend hes completely lazy, has no interest in defending, hes a tweener and has not even gotten remotley better since he came into the L what happend exactly? He never played with Lebron ethier
His point was about playing with ball dominant players. In that case, Dwyane Wade. But beasley does have those problems, and its frustrating as a fan. Even if he kept playing shit defense atleast dont get so shook once you miss a couple shots.

[Nash]

How is it Lebron's problem what Varejao rebounds? Its not like Lebron has anything to do with Varejao's rebounding.

[ripthekik]

There is one basketball you know. Lebron's impact can be seen on players like Chalmers, Battier, Allen etc.
That's right, the only ones he make better are spot up shooters.


Meh atleast I can one star.
did you want to rep me? Don't worry bro, I can wait :cheers:


ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

real talk. :applause:

oh and guys I'm not a Celtics fan, no need to shiit on them here :oldlol:

[andremiller07]

His point was about playing with ball dominant players. In that case, Dwyane Wade. But beasley does have those problems, and its frustrating as a fan. Even if he kept playing shit defense atleast dont get so shook once you miss a couple shots.

Beasley best seasons imo were with the Heat he actually got to play in the playoffs while being a solid contributor, he had 1 season in Minny where he played statistically his best ball and has fallen off badly since.

[r15mohd]

another daily dose of Rip's delusional kool-aid...keep up the agenda! :applause:

[Bigsmoke]

It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left, and now 1 year without Lebron, he is straight balling?

http://s9.postimage.org/8q7dnls25/Captur1e.jpg
He goes into double digit in scoring and rebound AFTER Lebron left.

Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better? Hell, Wade had a very good career as a top 3 player in the league when Lebron joined and what happened to him now? Bosh was his franchise's leader for 7 years, as soon as he leaves to Miami he is simply an star forward who gets disrespected :roll:

Look at all the clues here, guys. Why are all Lebron teams just a one-man team, consisting of him doing everything? Fact: Lebron doesn't make anyone better, he makes his stats look better, that's all.

u dont ever give up huh?

[MichaelCheazley]

Beasley best seasons imo were with the Heat he actually got to play in the playoffs while being a solid contributor, he had 1 season in Minny where he played statistically his best ball and has fallen off badly since.
Honestly he hasn't really looked good period in the NBA. He was most confident during his first season in minny due to having the green light and being a big part of that team. Injuries unfortunately derailed that good season but he showed the most flashed of brilliance then. In miami he looked like a mental midget. It didnt help that spoelstra had a tendency to pull him when he was getting hot, just so he can stick to his rotation. In the playoffs he barely contributed in either series and if he cant score, he doesnt contribute much else. What he needs to do is really work on mixing up his offensive moves and get better at what hes good at. He's easy to shut down when he doesnt have his stroke because his moves are basically shoot a jumper or triple threat,jab, jab followed by a bad shot. If hes able to mix up his offense i can see him being a great sixthman scorer for a contender. Maybe even a solid starter on a team that can mask his defensive weaknesses.

[ripthekik]

Varejao is getting those numbers because he is playing more. Per 36 minutes he was double double almost every year in Cavs. Guy is playing almost 36 minutes per game this year. 10 minutes more in average than when Lebron was there.

So does this debunk the myth spread by Lebron fans that Cleveland was scrub city? ONLY now after Lebron is gone, we start recognizing talent like Varejao who is an excellent rebounder and player.

Cavs back then had all-star talents like Varejao, and a lot of shooters and defensive player who fit the team well.

[jbryan1984]

He has always been a valueable player. I have always said he is the closest thing in the league to Dennis Rodman. Just his energy, you don't see it very often in the league. His numbers have slightly went up since Bron left but so has his playing time. He is a starter now and a top 3 option on offense. He has always been the kind of player he is though. Who knows how 2011 and 2012 would of ended with him as he had season ending injuries both years.

[Bigsmoke]

So does this debunk the myth spread by Lebron fans that Cleveland was scrub city? ONLY now after Lebron is gone, we start recognizing talent like Varejao who is an excellent rebounder and player.

Cavs back then had all-star talents like Varejao, and a lot of shooters and defensive player who fit the team well.

he wasn't playing like an All Star in the playoffs.

blame LeBron on that too right?

[ripthekik]

he wasn't playing like an All Star in the playoffs.

blame LeBron on that too right?
when he plays well = lebron made him better
when he didnt play well = "oh, blame it on lebron too right?"

win-win situation for lebron fans :applause:

if you want to give lebron credit for making his teammates better, why dont you make him shoulder the responsibility when they play like crap as well? Afterall he is the leader of the team, isn't he? :confusedshrug:

[LEFT4DEAD]

So does this debunk the myth spread by Lebron fans that Cleveland was scrub city? ONLY now after Lebron is gone, we start recognizing talent like Varejao who is an excellent rebounder and player.

Cavs back then had all-star talents like Varejao, and a lot of shooters and defensive player who fit the team well.
Naw, they were great... with Lebron that is. They have a ****ing 43-119 record since Lebron left. And Im repeating myself. Varejao's improvement is only due to him playing more. Nothing else. Guy averaged about 7 rpg in his 6 seasons with Lebron in about 24 mpg and since Lebron left about 11 rpg in 33 mpg. I dont see anything special about it. :confusedshrug:

[Bigsmoke]

when he plays well = lebron made him better
when he didnt play well = "oh, blame it on lebron too right?"

win-win situation for lebron fans :applause:

if you want to give lebron credit for making his teammates better, why dont you make him shoulder the responsibility when they play like crap as well? Afterall he is the leader of the team, isn't he? :confusedshrug:

:biggums:

you didn't see Varejao pick up the pieces when LeBron was stuggling in the Finals or just stop trying or whatever in that Celtics series.

Varejao is known for rebounding and defense so what the **** does that has to do with LeBron? Should Kobe get discredit because Caron Butler put up better stats after beat traded for Kwama Brown or Wade aint shit because of Dorell Wright's stats when he was on the GSWs?

[ripthekik]

Naw, they were great... with Lebron that is. They have a ****ing 43-119 record since Lebron left. And Im repeating myself. Varejao's improvement is only due to him playing more. Nothing else. Guy averaged about 7 rpg in his 6 seasons with Lebron in about 24 mpg and since Lebron left about 11 rpg in 33 mpg. I dont see anything special about it. :confusedshrug:
So if he is an allstar this year, we can say he has produced at all-star level all along since Lebron was there?

also, it's absolutely worthless to point out their record post-Lebron. The team was built to be around lebron, how can it work when the gear is taken out? Like 2001 Sixers without AI.

Also, the team was fundamentally different. Players were injured, some left, the coach was fired, all of that made the team different. The fact that they had a bad record had absolutely nothing to do with Lebron besides the fact that he blindsided them and they couldn't sign a star to replace the void left by him.

[KOBE143]

It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left, and now 1 year without Lebron, he is straight balling?

http://s9.postimage.org/8q7dnls25/Captur1e.jpg
He goes into double digit in scoring and rebound AFTER Lebron left.

Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better? Hell, Wade had a very good career as a top 3 player in the league when Lebron joined and what happened to him now? Bosh was his franchise's leader for 7 years, as soon as he leaves to Miami he is simply an star forward who gets disrespected :roll:

Look at all the clues here, guys. Why are all Lebron teams just a one-man team, consisting of him doing everything? Fact: Lebron doesn't make anyone better, he makes his stats look better, that's all.
:applause:

Another LeBrick myth exposed..

[LEFT4DEAD]

So if he is an allstar this year, we can say he has produced at all-star level all along since Lebron was there?

also, it's absolutely worthless to point out their record post-Lebron. The team was built to be around lebron, how can it work when the gear is taken out? Like 2001 Sixers without AI.

Also, the team was fundamentally different. Players were injured, some left, the coach was fired, all of that made the team different. The fact that they had a bad record had absolutely nothing to do with Lebron.
So you are saying that Lebron was not so influetial, even though they had 66-16 season when he was around? Or are you saying that Lebron only by himself is worth almost 50 wins? You are losing in both cases.

[ripthekik]

So you are saying that Lebron was not so influetial, even though they had 66-16 season when he was around? Or are you saying that Lebron only by himself is worth almost 50 wins? You are losing in both cases.
I am saying, the TEAM was good, it was built around him with talents including Varejao who haven't been recognized until recently. Lebron didn't really made his teammates better, they were already good, it just didn't seem so statistically because of the Lebron-dominant system they played in.

Most people simply give credit to Lebron as if he single handedly won 66 games and made his teammates great, which is not true.

[LEFT4DEAD]

I am saying, the TEAM was good, it was built around him with talents including Varejao who haven't been recognized until recently. Lebron didn't really made his teammates better, they were already good, it just didn't seem so statistically because of the Lebron-dominant system they played in.

Most people simply give credit to Lebron as if he single handedly won 66 games and made his teammates great, which is not true.
Now you just dont know what are you talking about, but whatever. :rolleyes:

[R.I.P]

ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh
Cp3 is Nash alike. Totally difference :facepalm

[Nash]

I am saying, the TEAM was good, it was built around him with talents including Varejao who haven't been recognized until recently. Lebron didn't really made his teammates better, they were already good, it just didn't seem so statistically because of the Lebron-dominant system they played in.

Most people simply give credit to Lebron as if he single handedly won 66 games and made his teammates great, which is not true.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

You're contradicting yourself all the time.

[pegasus]

ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh

This. Except, I wouldn't put CP3 in that category. He is a pure point guard.

A shooter like Ray Allen (at his age, of course) can benefit from playing alongside Lebron, but any other star would suffer immensely, especially traditional big guys. Lebron's game does nothing for them, so I don't get people's bitching about their lack of centers. They continue to go out and sign shooters instead for a reason.

I also don't understand when people say that Lebron can be the best point guard in the league if he plays that position full time. Well, guess what, he already does! And the fact that he can't even average 10 assists per game tells you that he is not that effective at distributing the ball.

[All Net]

Players do improve you know...

[plowking]

So does this debunk the myth spread by Lebron fans that Cleveland was scrub city? ONLY now after Lebron is gone, we start recognizing talent like Varejao who is an excellent rebounder and player.

Cavs back then had all-star talents like Varejao, and a lot of shooters and defensive player who fit the team well.

So why can't they win any games without Lebron with all that talent you claim they had/have?

[Whoah10115]

ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh




Not true about Paul, but it's starting to be true this year. Last year, he made the players around him better. This year, not so much. Lebron and Wade are different. Lebron does make people better, but not to the extent people suggest. Making the play for someone does not make them better. Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd...they make people better. Look at the Denver game in Denver earlier this year. Lebron was great, but he wasn't making people better. I think people just like to say what sounds good.


Tho Varejao has greatly improved. Did Lebron hold him back? I don't know, but regardless he is better now than he was then.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He made the Finals twice. Who cares what effect he has on Varejao's numbers? And another thing: What does Varejao's rebounding have to do with James? Stupid topic.

[STATUTORY]

Not true about Paul, but it's starting to be true this year. Last year, he made the players around him better. This year, not so much. Lebron and Wade are different. Lebron does make people better, but not to the extent people suggest. Making the play for someone does not make them better. Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd...they make people better. Look at the Denver game in Denver earlier this year. Lebron was great, but he wasn't making people better. I think people just like to say what sounds good.


Tho Varejao has greatly improved. Did Lebron hold him back? I don't know, but regardless he is better now than he was then.

making players "better" is more about how you lead on and off the court. whether you help players develop as players by improving their work ethic, dimensions of their game etc. As well as giving those players the freedom to hone their skills in game situation.

Kobe has done more for his teammates than Lebron ever has.

[Whoah10115]

making players "better" is more about how you lead on and off the court. whether you help players develop as players by improving their work ethic, dimensions of their game etc. As well as giving those players the freedom to hone their skills in game situation.

Kobe has done more for his teammates than Lebron ever has.



That's an intangible quality that you can't really measure.

[longtime lurker]

Making players better is the most cliche and overused term in basketball. There's no such thing as making players better, you can only make the game easier. Playing with a superstar is not going to magically add athleticism or fix a broken jumpshot. The term really just needs to stop being used in basketball vocabulary. And the whole premise of the OP has to be the stupidest way I've seen someone hate on Lebron.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Reach for it....REACH FOR IT

[ripthekik]

So why can't they win any games without Lebron with all that talent you claim they had/have?
because they played in a system that was customized for lebron, they adapted their roles for him. once lebron left, the SYSTEM broke.

they also didn't win because they lost so many personnel, the team was gutted. they didn't lose lebron, they lost the central gear to their team. When you spend the last 7 years building your team around 1 player and he leaves suddenly.. it's going to take you a season or 2 to adjust.

Verajao was a rebounding, hustling machine who is an EXCELLENT player that every team would love to have. In the lebron system it seems like he has no skills and can only hustle. there's really no way another player can shine if they play in the same team as lebron, unless they're a shooter.

[r15mohd]

because they played in a system that was customized for lebron, they adapted their roles for him. once lebron left, the SYSTEM broke.

they also didn't win because they lost so many personnel, the team was gutted. they didn't lose lebron, they lost the central gear to their team. When you spend the last 7 years building your team around 1 player and he leaves suddenly.. it's going to take you a season or 2 to adjust.

Verajao was a rebounding, hustling machine who is an EXCELLENT player that every team would love to have. In the lebron system it seems like he has no skills and can only hustle. there's really no way another player can shine if they play in the same team as lebron, unless they're a shooter.


Didn't BigZ and Mo Williams have "shining" years while Lebron's teammates? Both even made the all-star team, I believe.


Drew Gooden also had some of his highestt rebounding years while alongside Lebron, as well as point averages

[KG215]

It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left, and now 1 year without Lebron, he is straight balling?

http://s9.postimage.org/8q7dnls25/Captur1e.jpg
He goes into double digit in scoring and rebound AFTER Lebron left.

Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better? Hell, Wade had a very good career as a top 3 player in the league when Lebron joined and what happened to him now? Bosh was his franchise's leader for 7 years, as soon as he leaves to Miami he is simply an star forward who gets disrespected :roll:

Look at all the clues here, guys. Why are all Lebron teams just a one-man team, consisting of him doing everything? Fact: Lebron doesn't make anyone better, he makes his stats look better, that's all.
You're slipping man. This is a horrible troll job.

[Djahjaga]

Scottie Pippen stats in 92-93 (with Jordan): 18.6 points, 6.3 assists, 7.7 rebounds, 2.1 steals on .510 TS.

Bulls record: 57-25

Scottie Pippen stats in 93-94 (without Jordan): 22 points, 5.6 assists, 8.7 rebounds, 2.9 steals on .544 TS

Bulls record: 55-27



Jordan didn't make his teammates better. Heck, looks like he was holding them back. The team did just as fine without him as they did with him and Pippen had a career year. :rolleyes: :hammerhead:

[DaSeba5]

He's easily one of the worst posters here. I put him on my ignore list. Not worth the time.

[KingBeasley08]

well damn... this is what you call a thread backfire

[red1]

Ripthekik old buddy old pal, don't you ever get sick of being repeatedly called out for your agenda while being exposed as an imbecile? I know I sure as hell would get sick of it after the 49875th time

[pauk]

Varejao was always a great rebounder, but his career high rpg right now is a combination result of career high in minutes and career low in rebounding help around him.... his ppg is also a result of minutes, offensive rebounds and career low in scoring help around him (Kyrie aint playing either)...

[LEFT4DEAD]

Varejao was always a great rebounder, but his career high rpg right now is a combination result of career high in minutes and career low in rebounding help around him.... his ppg is also a result of minutes, offensive rebounds and career low in scoring help around him (Kyrie aint playing either)...
I wrote him the same thing 2 times. You think he will understand after third time? :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

Varajao is doing much better on boards due to his increased minutes and the lack of rebounders around him. However I will say one elephant in the room in spite of OP getting thrashed... Lebron failed to recognize and capitolize on the effective P&R game Varajao has. Varajao + Kyrie on the P&R has been awesome, and Varajao was not utilized this way in the Lebron era despite Lebron's reputation as some genius playmaker. Kyrie has breathed new life into Varajao as an offensive tool - he exploited an ability he had that Lebron never recognized.

[ihoopallday]

Why do people continue to feed this troll :confusedshrug: He started posting again right when Miami won a championship. Seems like most people have moved on from the LeBron hate. This guy just can't let it go.

[tmacattack33]

It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left, and now 1 year without Lebron, he is straight balling?

http://s9.postimage.org/8q7dnls25/Captur1e.jpg
He goes into double digit in scoring and rebound AFTER Lebron left.

Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better? Hell, Wade had a very good career as a top 3 player in the league when Lebron joined and what happened to him now? Bosh was his franchise's leader for 7 years, as soon as he leaves to Miami he is simply an star forward who gets disrespected :roll:

Look at all the clues here, guys. Why are all Lebron teams just a one-man team, consisting of him doing everything? Fact: Lebron doesn't make anyone better, he makes his stats look better, that's all.

It seems that you don't know how to count to 2.

Not surprised.

[FreezingTsmoove]

I still remember crunch time of Game 3 of the 07 finals. Bron brought them back and Andy grabbed a rebound where it was an insanely crucial possesion to get them to the lead. Bron was wide open for 3 but instead decided to try to take Timmy D off the dribble to get the go ahead bucket. :oldlol:

BUT ANDY V IS BIZZALLLLLLLINNNN THE FUXS OUT WITH KYRIE!?

If anything Andy V runined Lebrons career

[DMV2]

More minutes per game, more FGA per game = more points, more rebounds.

He's always been a solid player with limited minutes during those LeBron years. His stats look a lot better now because of more minutes and more FGA.

[selrahc]

lebron has never made his teammates better. look at wade and boshes stats before they play with him.

[chips93]

as for his offense, its really a lot to do with more freedom offensively, and chemistry with irving.

but he has definitely improved since bron left. hes been a decent shooter this season, and his passing has come a long way.

anyways, if we were a good offensive team, he probably wouldnt have this kind of freedom.

his rebounding is legit though, imo


Varejao was always a great rebounder, but his career high rpg right now is a combination result of career high in minutes and career low in rebounding help around him....

bullshit

the cavs are an elite rebounding team when anderson is on the court, and below average when hes off the court.

he pretty much single handedly makes the cavs great on the boards

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7989986&postcount=35

[Whoah10115]

as for his offense, its really a lot to do with more freedom offensively, and chemistry with irving.

but he has definitely improved since bron left. hes been a decent shooter this season, and his passing has come a long way.

anyways, if we were a good offensive team, he probably wouldnt have this kind of freedom.

his rebounding is legit though, imo



bullshit

the cavs are an elite rebounding team when anderson is on the court, and below average when hes off the court.

he pretty much single handedly makes the cavs great on the boards

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7989986&postcount=35




Shutup. Your post does not give credit to Lebron.


Clearly, that's what it's all about.

[chips93]

Shutup. Your post does give credit to Lebron.


Clearly, that's what it's all about.

:lebronamazed:

[Cali Syndicate]

So we're comparing varejao's stats when he used to come off the bench with a heavy front court rotation to now where he's the starting and primarily only big man on his team?

:applause:

Wait....

:no:

Actually....

:facepalm

Meh....

:sleeping

[VegasLakerFan]

"Making teammates better"= The most overused, subjective, and annoying phrase in basketball.:facepalm

[ripthekik]

Varejao was always a great rebounder, but his career high rpg right now is a combination result of career high in minutes and career low in rebounding help around him.... his ppg is also a result of minutes, offensive rebounds and career low in scoring help around him (Kyrie aint playing either)...

I wrote him the same thing 2 times. You think he will understand after third time? :lol

this is basically saying, if he makes the allstar team this year, back then he's always played at an all-star level. He just didn't have the stats due to not playing enough time. So basically in Cleveland Lebron always had an unrecognized all star rebounding machine. :applause:

[che guevara]

Varajao is doing much better on boards due to his increased minutes and the lack of rebounders around him. However I will say one elephant in the room in spite of OP getting thrashed... Lebron failed to recognize and capitolize on the effective P&R game Varajao has. Varajao + Kyrie on the P&R has been awesome, and Varajao was not utilized this way in the Lebron era despite Lebron's reputation as some genius playmaker. Kyrie has breathed new life into Varajao as an offensive tool - he exploited an ability he had that Lebron never recognized.
Uh, what? Lebron ran tons of PnR with Varejao, especially in the '09-'10 season. Don't know what you're talking about here.

[Pointguard]

Since Lebron left, Varejao hasn't hit his career FG%. He's played a lot more and has been featured while being in his prime now. He better do better in the other areas. I know Z and Shaq speak greatly of Lebron. Boozer was vastly overpaid, overated because people remember the Lebron days. Boozer is mediocore but has had max contracts and never lived up to his expections without Lebron. If you read these boards, the Cavs didn't really have a system where players could win in. The coach was so backward that its amazing Lebron did well in it.

[Bandito]

Varejao is getting those numbers because he is playing more. Per 36 minutes he was double double almost every year in Cavs. Guy is playing almost 36 minutes per game this year. 10 minutes more in average than when Lebron was there.

And you are really expecting all three of them to have superstar numbers on one team? There is one basketball you know. Lebron's impact can be seen on players like Chalmers, Battier, Allen etc.
Allen was a good player before he joined the Celtics, last time I checked he was the best 3 point shooter in history. Battier was solid when he was in Memphis and the Rockets. Chalmers just got better as he got more expereienced, or are you telling me that he got to be a good 3 point shooter because Lebron taught him?:facepalm

Lebron is what he is, he is a Kobe/Mj type, a slasher who is a really good passer, is just that in his case he seems to be a more willing passer than MJ and specially Kobe.

[Bandito]

So why can't they win any games without Lebron with all that talent you claim they had/have?
Because they don't play together anymore? This off the top of my head:

M. Williams is in the Jazz
Jamison is in the Lakers
Big Z is retired
Hickson is in the Blazers

Varejao and Boobie Gibson are on the Cavs with new personnel.:facepalm


Also the same year Lebron left the Cavs were playing good until the important players in their roster got injured; Williams, Jamison and Varejao. Of course you wouldn't know that because you are a fanboy blinded by Lebron c0ck luminescence.

[plowking]

because they played in a system that was customized for lebron, they adapted their roles for him. once lebron left, the SYSTEM broke.

they also didn't win because they lost so many personnel, the team was gutted. they didn't lose lebron, they lost the central gear to their team. When you spend the last 7 years building your team around 1 player and he leaves suddenly.. it's going to take you a season or 2 to adjust.

Verajao was a rebounding, hustling machine who is an EXCELLENT player that every team would love to have. In the lebron system it seems like he has no skills and can only hustle. there's really no way another player can shine if they play in the same team as lebron, unless they're a shooter.

So hes been gone for a while now. Why are they still shit and not adjusted?
Team was gutted? Who exactly left? Shaq and Delonte West? Well they were a 60+ win team without Shaq. So are you saying that Delonte was making up the rest of the wins? :oldlol:
What a gutted team. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Maybe they were just shite, and Lebron actually made them look good.

[ripthekik]

So hes been gone for a while now. Why are they still shit and not adjusted?
Team was gutted? Who exactly left? Shaq and Delonte West? Well they were a 60+ win team without Shaq. So are you saying that Delonte was making up the rest of the wins? :oldlol:
What a gutted team. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Maybe they were just shite, and Lebron actually made them look good.
read the post above.

anyone who attributes Cavs post-Lebron's record as a compliment to Lebron is basically a dumbass who never followed the nba back then, and post just to say anything in positive of Lebron. ANYTHING, to make him look good. :coleman: even ignoring such talent as Verajao.

[plowking]

Because they don't play together anymore? This off the top of my head:

M. Williams is in the Jazz
Jamison is in the Lakers
Big Z is retired
Hickson is in the Blazers

Varejao and Boobie Gibson are on the Cavs with new personnel.:facepalm


Also the same year Lebron left the Cavs were playing good until the important players in their roster got injured; Williams, Jamison and Varejao. Of course you wouldn't know that because you are a fanboy blinded by Lebron c0ck luminescence.

You know how you know you're a shit poster on here? When nobody actually knows what team you go for, because all you do is criticize one player. You fall into that category. You are utter trash. You must be depressed as hell if you only come here to vent. :oldlol:

[plowking]

read the post above.

anyone who attributes Cavs post-Lebron's record as a compliment to Lebron is basically a dumbass who never followed the nba back then, and post just to say anything in positive of Lebron. ANYTHING, to make him look good. :coleman: even ignoring such talent as Verajao.

Well here is an ultimatum too.

Anyone who posts shit about Andy V being a stud on a 3-12 team is a dumbass.

[j3lademaster]

Lebron taught Varejao well. Turned him into an all star after all these years. Finally put all the tools together that Lebron taught him.

Lebron da GOAT! Is it possible for him to get COTY as well guys? He deserves it after turning a scrub like Varejao into a decent player. GOAT player and coach.

LOL! you sound like a Kobe rider... wait. What?

[ripthekik]

Well here is an ultimatum too.

Anyone who posts shit about Andy V being a stud on a 3-12 team is a dumbass.
I think people all over the NBA will recognize Andy V as a stud, regardless of his team's record. It's not his fault. Do you think anyone playing on a shiit team can easily get tons of good stats? Don't let your love for lebron blind you, and hate on any success achieved by a ex lebron-cav teammate.

Recognize his talent man, I think it's likely coaches will vote him in for the ASG this year.l

[Hoopz2332]

Also the same year Lebron left the Cavs were playing good until the important players in their roster got injured; Williams, Jamison and Varejao. Of course you wouldn't know that because you are a fanboy blinded by Lebron c0ck luminescence.


Lies..I'll post the stats later.They were go awful while many of those ex Lebron teammates were still playing. They fell off right after the first game Lebron had when he returned to drop 38 points.

[plowking]

I think people all over the NBA will recognize Andy V as a stud, regardless of his team's record. It's not his fault. Do you think anyone playing on a shiit team can easily get tons of good stats? Don't let your love for lebron blind you, and hate on any success achieved by a ex lebron-cav teammate.

Recognize his talent man, I think it's likely coaches will vote him in for the ASG this year.l


Most people knew about it already. They just don't take the time to conjure it up in a way to degrade another player.

[I.R.Beast]

no he doesnt and never has....i hate the term make players better. James has never helped to increase the production of a player he has played with. Infact his ball dominant style does the opposite. Its difficult for other players to be productive outside of catching and shooting playing with lebron. James makes his TEAM better in its totality due to his presence but he doesnt make any one individual on the team better, he infact hinders their production

[I.R.Beast]

ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh
Wish more people would understand this....When guys like Kobe that is said to be a ball hog actually has a game taylor made for his support players to maximize their production.

[ripthekik]

no he doesnt and never has....i hate the term make players better. James has never helped to increase the production of a player he has played with. Infact his ball dominant style does the opposite. Its difficult for other players to be productive outside of catching and shooting playing with lebron. James makes his TEAM better in its totality due to his presence but he doesnt make any one individual on the team better, he infact hinders their production
I agree with this. :applause:

And no one has yet to answer my question:

this is basically saying, if he makes the allstar team this year, back then he's always played at an all-star level. He just didn't have the stats due to not playing enough time. So basically in Cleveland Lebron always had an unrecognized all star rebounding machine. :applause:
most lebron fans here act like Verajao has always played this way, just didn't have the minutes so his stats improved the last 2 years. But doesn't this mean Lebron always had all-star talent Verajao around him? :confusedshrug:

[Whoah10115]

Boozer was vastly overpaid, overated because people remember the Lebron days. Boozer is mediocore but has had max contracts and never lived up to his expections without Lebron.



????


Boozer's career years were in Utah. Give that credit to Deron if you don't want to give it to Boozer, but don't give it to Lebron. He played better every year he was in Utah than he ever did in Cleveland.

[Dave3]

Uh, what? Lebron ran tons of PnR with Varejao, especially in the '09-'10 season. Don't know what you're talking about here.
Exactly what I wanted to say. It seems like it was every game LeBron and V were doing pick and rolls leading to Varejao scoring off the roll, or off a cut, etc. etc. Varejao was one of LeBron's favourite targets under the basket throughout his entire time in Cleveland.

[Pointguard]

????

Boozer's career years were in Utah. Give that credit to Deron if you don't want to give it to Boozer, but don't give it to Lebron. He played better every year he was in Utah than he ever did in Cleveland.

For centers and forwards first impressions never leave a player. Darko probably never belonged in the NBA but 8 teams were excited about him when they got him because of their first impression - Darko made 50 million in the NBA based on his first impression (actually the one he had before he joined the league). Darko and Kwame Brown were 6 point and 5 rebound career guys. Boozer was a 15.5 and 11.4 guy at 22 years of age with Lebron being the main focal point of the offense and Z the second option. He peaked at 21 and 10.5 with Boozer himself being the man in a pick and role system taking four more shots per game. He didn't develop the way he should have. Not age wise, not 3rd to 1st option wise, not knowing the game wise did he progress the way he should have. He should have had 4 or 5years at 20 and 10.

Chicago wasn't thinking of a pick and role system for Boozer. So they were looking at the Lebron, Boozer. He didn't get a max for under achieving in Utah's pick and role system with Deron. Boozer had no chance of being the number one option in Chicago. Rose plays more like Lebron than Deron.

[alleykat]

Define all-star?? Varejao is not an all-star

Idk it seems like according to this thread James won that ring all by himself with no help, because in fact he is a one man team..

So not sure if this is a hate thread or an appreciation thread

[ihoopallday]

Define all-star?? Varejao is not an all-star

Idk it seems like according to this thread James won that ring all by himself with no help, because in fact he is a one man team..

So not sure if this is a hate thread or an appreciation thread

:lol Ripthekik thread backfired on him.

[ripthekik]

Define all-star?? Varejao is not an all-star

Idk it seems like according to this thread James won that ring all by himself with no help, because in fact he is a one man team..

So not sure if this is a hate thread or an appreciation thread
Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.

[alleykat]

Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.

yes but to be an all-star you need to be a player on the "all-star" roster. he hasn't made it yet so we will see if and when it happens. Johnny Moore never made an All-Star Appearance in late 80's to 90's with the Spurs despite averaging almost a double-double for the season and post season. He is not an "all-star".

anyways I was confused by your phrasing.

[monkeypox]

Making teammates better is mostly a myth. Most of the good players that played with Jordan did better when they were away from Jordan. Can you guess why? Because when Jordan is around, he's the one that gets the ball. That's how it should be.

[plowking]

Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.

So if Jamaal Magloire comes back and plays for a team, they're adding an all star talent to the team? :oldlol:

Your logic seems to be all over the shop for this one.

[ripthekik]

So if Jamaal Magloire comes back and plays for a team, they're adding an all star talent to the team? :oldlol:

Your logic seems to be all over the shop for this one.
Nope, because Jamaal will be no longer the same player.

Hey, I'm not the one claiming Verajao has always been this same productive player, only only didn't get these stats because he didn't play enough minutes when with Lebron. Lebron fans are the ones who are saying this :applause:

Funny they don't want Verajao to be seen as having a huge improvement after Lebron leaves, but in doing so, they just admitted that Lebron has all-star talent all along. :rolleyes:

[alleykat]

Oh so I get it....it's just to prove that James has had all star talent with him even with varejao, just that he gets no help from it because he suppresses it (based on your evidence for wade's decline) and he is not a team player nor a person who makes his team better

Either way like I said this thread makes it seem like James won that ring all by himself with no help....

[Whoah10115]

For centers and forwards first impressions never leave a player. Darko probably never belonged in the NBA but 8 teams were excited about him when they got him because of their first impression - Darko made 50 million in the NBA based on his first impression (actually the one he had before he joined the league). Darko and Kwame Brown were 6 point and 5 rebound career guys. Boozer was a 15.5 and 11.4 guy at 22 years of age with Lebron being the main focal point of the offense and Z the second option. He peaked at 21 and 10.5 with Boozer himself being the man in a pick and role system taking four more shots per game. He didn't develop the way he should have. Not age wise, not 3rd to 1st option wise, not knowing the game wise did he progress the way he should have. He should have had 4 or 5years at 20 and 10.

Chicago wasn't thinking of a pick and role system for Boozer. So they were looking at the Lebron, Boozer. He didn't get a max for under achieving in Utah's pick and role system with Deron. Boozer had no chance of being the number one option in Chicago. Rose plays more like Lebron than Deron.




I mean, Boozer is an all-star caliber player...but not an elite player by any means. He's a hard-working 20/10 guy, who's smart and can pass the ball well. He's also got a good post game. He can't wreak havoc the way Randolph can, but again his post game is good and he can rack up numbers on a 50win team. Utah won 50 games a couple times and 48 another. In Utah, he had one year where he missed almost 50 games.


The Chicago deal was stupid, but he could be worth that to a team with a different PG or a certain system.

[monkeypox]

Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.


Good point. Varajao now = just as good when with LeBron. Varajao now = All-star. Therefore Varajao with LeBron = All-star. It's their own logic.

Either Andy was always this good and LeBron had more help than people like to admit, or LeBron held Varajao back.

[ripthekik]

Good point. Varajao now = just as good when with LeBron. Varajao now = All-star. Therefore Varajao with LeBron = All-star. It's their own logic.

Either Andy was always this good and LeBron had more help than people like to admit, or LeBron held Varajao back.
:applause: You got it.
Here are the following people (including Cavs fans who I guess we can trust?) who said the same thing.


Varejao is getting those numbers because he is playing more. Per 36 minutes he was double double almost every year in Cavs. Guy is playing almost 36 minutes per game this year. 10 minutes more in average than when Lebron was there.

And Im repeating myself. Varejao's improvement is only due to him playing more. Nothing else. Guy averaged about 7 rpg in his 6 seasons with Lebron in about 24 mpg and since Lebron left about 11 rpg in 33 mpg.

Varejao was always a great rebounder, but his career high rpg right now is a combination result of career high in minutes and career low in rebounding help around him.... his ppg is also a result of minutes, offensive rebounds and career low in scoring help around him (Kyrie aint playing either)...

Varajao is doing much better on boards due to his increased minutes and the lack of rebounders around him. However I will say one elephant in the room in spite of OP getting thrashed... Lebron failed to recognize and capitolize on the effective P&R game Varajao has. Varajao + Kyrie on the P&R has been awesome, and Varajao was not utilized this way in the Lebron era despite Lebron's reputation as some genius playmaker. Kyrie has breathed new life into Varajao as an offensive tool - he exploited an ability he had that Lebron never recognized.

More minutes per game, more FGA per game = more points, more rebounds.

He's always been a solid player with limited minutes during those LeBron years. His stats look a lot better now because of more minutes and more FGA.

So when, not if, when Varejao gets his all-star this year.. we can conclude that Lebron has always had all-star talent on his team, in fact one of the greatest help you can have on your team is a rebounding star since he does not need the ball to be effective. :applause:

[Kurosawa0]

Varejao was great with LeBron. He probably should've been the 6th man of the year in 2010.

[ripthekik]

So after Verajao, the next victim is Bosh.

Look at the type of game this guy has without Lebron hogging the ball every single possession, turning him into a spot-up shooter.

Does lebron make his teammates better, really?

[#number6ix#]

So after Verajao, the next victim is Bosh.

Look at the type of game this guy has without Lebron hogging the ball every single possession, turning him into a spot-up shooter.

Does lebron make his teammates better, really?
I'm starting to think your not a Lebron fan:lol

[Nash]

So after Verajao, the next victim is Bosh.

Look at the type of game this guy has without Lebron hogging the ball every single possession, turning him into a spot-up shooter.

Does lebron make his teammates better, really?
You are a dumb troll that is ruining this forum. Bosh is a 3rd option and takes on average 4 shots less than he did when he was with Toronto. How the hell don't you understand that? Do you think Bosh is going to average the same amount of shots in Miami as he did in Toronto? How many FG's per game do you think there is?

[lebeast666]

So after Verajao, the next victim is Bosh.

Look at the type of game this guy has without Lebron hogging the ball every single possession, turning him into a spot-up shooter.

Does lebron make his teammates better, really?

This kid is so fvcking mad LeBron is a better player than his boy chuckbe and will end up with a better career.

[ripthekik]

You are a dumb troll that is ruining this forum. Bosh is a 3rd option and takes on average 4 shots less than he did when he was with Toronto. How the hell don't you understand that? Do you think Bosh is going to average the same amount of shots in Miami as he did in Toronto? How many FG's per game do you think there is?
It's not just stats.. his whole game is hidden. Hence this thread stands, when you play with Lebron, you have to sacrifice a huge part of your game, because he handles the ball so much.

Bosh is basically a spot-up shooter, when he can beast like tonight.

[Nash]

It's not just stats.. his whole game is hidden. Hence this thread stands, when you play with Lebron, you have to sacrifice a huge part of your game, because he handles the ball so much.

Bosh is basically a spot-up shooter, when he can beast like tonight.
Bosh is not basically a spot up shooter. Stop talking outta your ass.

Also, I love Bosh but why would Miami give him more responsibility right now when they are killing the league with the lead of Lebron? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[tazb]

Dwight went from 25/15 player last year to 14/10, ChuckBe in full effect.