D'Antoni's system sucks

[BlueandGold]

7 seconds or less? Just shoot the ball whenever your open? Oh yea takes a real genus to come up with a system like that. "um yea just pass the ball till someone is open hopefully 7 seconds or less because i want to go home sooner"

what a ****ing dumbass. I'm calling this right when like i was the mike brown hire. I almost never like to jump the gun but i can see this coming a mile away just like brown. have to be another patsy just for phil to step up from nowhere in the playoffs.

The only highlight of this team since mike has been in town has ironically been the defense of dwight, who btw should obviously be dpoy.

edit: also wtf kind of coach doesn't understand how to set up a half-court offensive system. It's not like he would have to abandon his system, just learn a new one for once that doesn't involve looking entertaining in the regular season just to tire yourself out for the playoffs.

[Knicksfever2010]

not sure why anyone should be surprised by this. Championship basketball is achieved through defense-defense-defense. Of course you need 2 star players, but defense is the order of the day.

[longtime lurker]

D'Antoni's system is Steve Nash save me!

[cotdt]

The system only works with Steve Nash or Jermy Lin. Wiat till Nash comes back.

[plUto or bUst]

The system only works with Steve Nash or Jermy Lin. Wiat till Nash comes back.

It would also work great with Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Tony Parker, Ricky Rubio, etc.

Too bad Lakers don't have any of those guys, just a gimpy Steve Nash.

[Levity]

The system only works with Steve Nash or Jermy Lin. Wiat till Nash comes back.

fatmond felton ran it pretty nicely, as well.

[Reverend Hoops]

fatmond felton ran it pretty nicely, as well.

So did Chris Duhon when he was healthy.

[cotdt]

Maybe Bernie was a better coach after all.

[DuMa]

Laker fans are always bitching and crying :cry: :cry:

[BlueandGold]

it's like d'antoni is staring off into space on the half-court sets.. seriously this is the best we could get?

[elementally morale]

Laker fans are always bitching and crying :cry: :cry:

Oh, the irony.

[longtime lurker]

Oh, the irony.

It would only be ironic if he was actually a fan of a team

[AussieG]

Lakers fans are too impatient.. the whole franchise is.. and right now the franchise is in a mess. It's sort of funny.

You have to look at it long term..

Brown never got a proper full season..

D'Antoni hasn't had a proper training camp..

System's need time to adjust and to build pieces around.. everyone needs time to adjust. And to find the right fit.. know their role.. etc. You can't build success overnight.

Combine that with the fact that it's an aging roster.. Dwight is the only long term piece that you can properly build around in the future.

Spurs are similar.. but they have had continuity.. the key pieces and the coach have stayed the same all along.. everyone who comes in has to adjust around the core pieces. They have a chemistry and understanding with each other.. even if they aren't as quick or effecient as they used to be.

With the Lakers.. they keep chopping and changing.. and then wonder why it doesn't work.

[DonDadda59]

Maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that it's not the coaches going through the revolving door... it's the team that sucks.

[Djahjaga]

D'antoni's an offensive genius. His revolutionized floor spacing and many aspects of his system are used by every team in the league.

He's clearly not running 7 seconds or less with the Lakers, and rightly so. He's realized that the defensive drawbacks of 7SOL outweigh the offensive benefits in the playoffs, even when you have the best floor spacing, passing point guard ever.

He doesn't have the exact personnel that would be optimal for his free movement, PnR, floor spacing approach. Moreover, like any good offensive system, it'll take time for the players to adapt.

tl;dr Cool your jets, brah.

[clayton]

Back to blaming the coach I see.

[IGOTGAME]

D'Antoni's system is Steve Nash save me!

yep. all he does it let Nash do whatever he wants. Lakers set up to rely on fragile old man now.

[Rekindled]

lakers had so many wide open threes taht they missed, also missed 20 FTs.

[Levity]

It would only be ironic if he was actually a fan of a team

exactly what i was thinking. DuMa, along with many other trolls, is a pimple on the face that is insidehoops

[IGOTGAME]

D'antoni's an offensive genius. His revolutionized floor spacing and many aspects of his system are used by every team in the league.

He's clearly not running 7 seconds or less with the Lakers, and rightly so. He's realized that the defensive drawbacks of 7SOL outweigh the offensive benefits in the playoffs, even when you have the best floor spacing, passing point guard ever.

He doesn't have the exact personnel that would be optimal for his free movement, PnR, floor spacing approach. Moreover, like any good offensive system, it'll take time for the players to adapt.

tl;dr Cool your jets, brah.

that is an absurd comment. probably the most ridiculous thing i have read on here this month.

[Mr. Incredible]

The Lakers aren't making the Finals. :oldlol: Let alone the 2nd Round :roll:

[DonDadda59]

lakers had so many wide open threes taht they missed, also missed 20 FTs.

Those sort of things tend to happen when you suck.

[Blue&Orange]

edit: also wtf kind of coach doesn't understand how to set up a half-court offensive system. It's not like he would have to abandon his system, just learn a new one for once that doesn't involve looking entertaining in the regular season just to tire yourself out for the playoffs.
lol that's the all point of his ssol system, to avoid the half-court offense. He is a hack, can believe the Lakers gave him a 4 year contract :lol

[Djahjaga]

that is an absurd comment. probably the most ridiculous thing i have read on here this month.

Haha okay. :rolleyes:

[Glide2keva]

Kobe should be player/coach.

[TheBigVeto]

Maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that it's not the coaches going through the revolving door... it's the team that sucks.

This.

[Shepseskaf]

The Lakers aren't making the Finals. :oldlol: Let alone the 2nd Round :roll:
Pretty much. This team isn't even close to the "sure thing" that many were projecting before the season started.

[SacJB Shady]

The spurs folded every year in post season since 07 so what makes people think the lakers have a shot at not folding?

[ILLsmak]

Can't call someone an offensive genius if they can only run with one set of tools. It'd be more like an offensive idiot savant.

If he doesn't win in LA, it'll be two failures since Phoenix. The real question was... was Phoenix really good that considering their talent level? It got people numbers and contracts, but if you look at who they had, did they really overachieve?

I feel the same way about Steve Nash, if he doesn't come back and make this work, then he's really not an all time great. He's old, sure, but he should still be able to have the ball in his hands and create something/ make open shots. Other PGs play well as they age.

There are separate levels of success. There is unexpected success and there is achieving expected success. Obviously, the latter is harder. We're still waiting for that from both of them, in my opinion.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

Pretty much. This team isn't even close to the "sure thing" that many were projecting before the season started.

Double post. No reason why it shouldn't be, though. Even with just Pau/Kobe/Dwight. Their talent level is insane. It's bad coaching and chemistry. This team should be one of the GOAT teams as far as I'm concerned.

-Smak

[FKAri]

Double post. No reason why it shouldn't be, though. Even with just Pau/Kobe/Dwight. Their talent level is insane. It's bad coaching and chemistry. This team should be one of the GOAT teams as far as I'm concerned.

-Smak

No they should not be one of the GOAT teams. I didn't expect them to be top 2 in the West. The problem is thta most of the rest of that roster is terrible. Nash is a solid PG at this point and Jodie Meeks is a solid backup SG. Metta is highly inconsistent and the rest of that team is horrible. No utility players to fill in the glaring gaps of the team. Just compare the roster to OKC. OKC is an example of a team that is straight stacked.

[Godzuki]

honestly y'all are idiots. you looked f'n awful playing slowdown halfcourt. no open lanes, and everything was some clogged lane jump shot. it was boring as hell to watch too. Lakers would have gotten blown out playing halfcourt against Indiana last night. Pau is so soft these days its funny people still think he can be a down low post presence. Dwight is not a good offensive post player either. the sad thing is some of you still don't seem to realize when you play up tempo and open the floor both sides will get easy baskets at different times. all of the defense idiots here don't seem to realize that, and constantly cry about stupid shit that happens in games where the offensive player would've made the shot regardless of 'good' defense. same old think in the box sports fans, reminds me of the same idiots that swore the only way to win in the NFL was to run the ball, now they're outdated conservative morons in a passers league.

and the big thing if you had an observational awareness is defense is based on effort. 90% of the time they're getting beat on poor effort by the individual guarding, or being late on switching, etc. even the last shot game winner last night Dwight was late on the switch by a second, and a lot of the stuff people blame D Antoni's system for is more on each players effort and timing on D.

[madmax17]

He needs time for god's sake, like a whole season, he just got here.

[Phenith]

Now that Nash isn't being taken care of by the Suns miracle medical staff I don't see him being healthy much for the rest of his career.

[Whoah10115]

This thread is remarkably rehash and boring.



I wonder if anyone who complains about how stubborn D'Antoni is and how he won't adjust to the Lakers personnel actually bother to realize and accept that the very stubborn system he runs is the reason the Lakers hired him.

[tomtucker]

He needs time for god's sake, like a whole season, he just got here.

no...for nash it

[swi7ch]

Bring back Bernie!!!

[daily]

How would we know D'Antoni's system sucks? Laker players are not playing it. They're playing Kobe ball first and when Kobe's not dominating the ball it's dribble time. D'Antoni wants ball movement through passing not standing around watching.

[mark]

7 seconds or less? Just shoot the ball whenever your open? Oh yea takes a real genus to come up with a system like that. "um yea just pass the ball till someone is open hopefully 7 seconds or less because i want to go home sooner"

what a ****ing dumbass. I'm calling this right when like i was the mike brown hire. I almost never like to jump the gun but i can see this coming a mile away just like brown. have to be another patsy just for phil to step up from nowhere in the playoffs.

The only highlight of this team since mike has been in town has ironically been the defense of dwight, who btw should obviously be dpoy.

edit: also wtf kind of coach doesn't understand how to set up a half-court offensive system. It's not like he would have to abandon his system, just learn a new one for once that doesn't involve looking entertaining in the regular season just to tire yourself out for the playoffs.


Kobe just didn't want to be behind Dwight with Phil Jackson. Bernie appears to have won the most games between D Antoni and Brown. I say bring back Bernie.
Gasol and Dwight are done in D'Antoni's system.

[InfiniteBaskets]

I feel the same way about Steve Nash, if he doesn't come back and make this work, then he's really not an all time great. He's old, sure, but he should still be able to have the ball in his hands and create something/ make open shots. Other PGs play well as they age.


-Smak

I think Nash has done enough to prove he's hall of fame worthy, and anything he does or doesn't do at this point in his career isn't going to mean much. He could have retired this past off-season and been labeled a hall of famer. I don't know what you mean specifically by all time great, because if you mean top 10 then no. Even if Nash were to win a title with these Lakers, unless he miraculously won regular season and finals MVP, I don't see him changing his legacy by simply kicking out for a few open jumpers on dribble penetration.

[chazzy]

The Lakers don't even have a PG right now

[ShaqAttack3234]

D'Antoni is a one trick pony who was the perfect coach for the '05-'07 Suns, but also had the perfect roster for him. His system doesn't work without a great point guard, and he also underestimates the importance of a post game. History has proven that great post players win championships far more often than great point guards do. I saw his system exposed in New York for 4 years, and while it's way too early to say for sure, I don't see it working out in LA. Nash will be back, but he'll be 39 this season, is injured right now, and it still won't solve all of their problems. I don't think D'Antoni can adjust to different rosters, and maximize his player's potential even if they're talented and proven, but don't fit into his narrow view of basketball. They don't have a roster of guys who complement Nash perfectly, and with Kobe, Howard and Gasol, Nash is not going to be running the show the way he was in Phoenix, much less at 39. And in the end, how many championships did Phoenix win with D'Antoni? No wait, how many times did they make the finals? Now how many times did LA with a mix of Kobe and their interior game?

[caliman]

Maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that it's not the coaches going through the revolving door... it's the team that sucks.


Pretty much this. All Lakers outside of Kobe shot 25%. Take away Howard's 7/10 and that drops to 13%. These dudes are getting wide open shots, its not like thy're being challenged. Its up to them to knock them down. And the free throw shooting...:facepalm

[Levity]

I don't think D'Antoni can adjust to different rosters, and maximize his player's potential even if they're talented and proven, but don't fit into his narrow view of basketball.

This was the exact feeling i had when i heard LA signed him and it only increased after watching some of the games he was on the sideline coaching. Many have already said it, but a GREAT coach is able to adapt to his team and utilize their talents to the fullest.

[Sharmer]

Let's wait for the point guard to return to draw a conclusion.

[ILLsmak]

I think Nash has done enough to prove he's hall of fame worthy, and anything he does or doesn't do at this point in his career isn't going to mean much. He could have retired this past off-season and been labeled a hall of famer. I don't know what you mean specifically by all time great, because if you mean top 10 then no. Even if Nash were to win a title with these Lakers, unless he miraculously won regular season and finals MVP, I don't see him changing his legacy by simply kicking out for a few open jumpers on dribble penetration.

He's hall of fame because he won 2 MVPs, but people overrate the shit out of him. He's still not an all time great. Is he top 10 even at his position? No.

I don't think he's going to change his legacy, either. He's just going to continue to prove that he is limited. Same with D'Antoni.

I really think it would be huge for his legacy to orchestrate this Laker team to a championship, however, if it happened.

-Smak

[Whoah10115]

He's hall of fame because he won 2 MVPs, but people overrate the shit out of him. He's still not an all time great. Is he top 10 even at his position? No.

I don't think he's going to change his legacy, either. He's just going to continue to prove that he is limited. Same with D'Antoni.

I really think it would be huge for his legacy to orchestrate this Laker team to a championship, however, if it happened.

-Smak




Nothing limited about his game and he's obviously a top 10 player in his position. That's not arguable.

[BlueandGold]

Lakers fans are too impatient.. the whole franchise is.. and right now the franchise is in a mess. It's sort of funny.

You have to look at it long term..

Brown never got a proper full season..

D'Antoni hasn't had a proper training camp..

System's need time to adjust and to build pieces around.. everyone needs time to adjust. And to find the right fit.. know their role.. etc. You can't build success overnight.

Combine that with the fact that it's an aging roster.. Dwight is the only long term piece that you can properly build around in the future.

Spurs are similar.. but they have had continuity.. the key pieces and the coach have stayed the same all along.. everyone who comes in has to adjust around the core pieces. They have a chemistry and understanding with each other.. even if they aren't as quick or effecient as they used to be.

With the Lakers.. they keep chopping and changing.. and then wonder why it doesn't work.

this would definitely be the counter argument for it. The problem is you actually have a lot of Laker fans who actually know basketball, specifically what a championship/contending level of play should look like that what is out there on the court definitely isn't close.

From what i've seen so far this is what i can determine. The Lakers don't seem to be getting better, this isn't some lockout shortened season, the Lakers had a full training camp AND preseason.

They just hired a coach that seemed to be their backup option.. never a good sign. Makes the organization look weak and totally eliminates any type of control from the coach. D'Antoni also has been near historically bad on defense, something no championship team has gone without.

[BlueandGold]

D'antoni's an offensive genius. His revolutionized floor spacing and many aspects of his system are used by every team in the league.

He's clearly not running 7 seconds or less with the Lakers, and rightly so. He's realized that the defensive drawbacks of 7SOL outweigh the offensive benefits in the playoffs, even when you have the best floor spacing, passing point guard ever.

He doesn't have the exact personnel that would be optimal for his free movement, PnR, floor spacing approach. Moreover, like any good offensive system, it'll take time for the players to adapt.

tl;dr Cool your jets, brah.
Oh sorry I didn't know he was the one that came up with the run and gun? That is essentially what he did right? You can call something whatever you want. All of the discussions we've had about D'antoni has been about his offense. As "revolutionizing" as his offense is, I don't remember a team that has won a championship strictly off offense.

Remember what people were talking about the Heat's defense last 2 years? "most athletic defense all time".

[IGOTGAME]

D'Antoni is a one trick pony who was the perfect coach for the '05-'07 Suns, but also had the perfect roster for him. His system doesn't work without a great point guard, and he also underestimates the importance of a post game. History has proven that great post players win championships far more often than great point guards do. I saw his system exposed in New York for 4 years, and while it's way too early to say for sure, I don't see it working out in LA. Nash will be back, but he'll be 39 this season, is injured right now, and it still won't solve all of their problems. I don't think D'Antoni can adjust to different rosters, and maximize his player's potential even if they're talented and proven, but don't fit into his narrow view of basketball. They don't have a roster of guys who complement Nash perfectly, and with Kobe, Howard and Gasol, Nash is not going to be running the show the way he was in Phoenix, much less at 39. And in the end, how many championships did Phoenix win with D'Antoni? No wait, how many times did they make the finals? Now how many times did LA with a mix of Kobe and their interior game?

this. DAntoni was a horrible hire.

[Godzuki]

Oh sorry I didn't know he was the one that came up with the run and gun? That is essentially what he did right? You can call something whatever you want. All of the discussions we've had about D'antoni has been about his offense. As "revolutionizing" as his offense is, I don't remember a team that has won a championship strictly off offense.

Remember what people were talking about the Heat's defense last 2 years? "most athletic defense all time".


there also was never a nfl team that won a super bowl passing the ball until the Rams did it, and now everyones doing it. just because everyone doesn't copy cat previous success doesn't mean there aren't other ways to win. especially when the system you're criticizing almost reached the finals 2 out of their 4 years in Phx and were a top team, only second to San Antonio in a stacked Western Conference league. to pretend that system can't be successful is ridiculous since it was. this ring or nothing talk is stupid.

[KingBeasley08]

there also was never a nfl team that won a super bowl passing the ball until the Rams did it, and now everyones doing it. just because everyone doesn't copy cat previous success doesn't mean there aren't other ways to win. especially when the system you're criticizing almost reached the finals 2 out of their 4 years in Phx and were a top team, only second to San Antonio in a stacked Western Conference league. to pretend that system can't be successful is ridiculous since it was. this ring or nothing talk is stupid.
Huh? Plenty of teams had won the sb passing the ball. The GSOT were not the first

[BlueandGold]

there also was never a nfl team that won a super bowl passing the ball until the Rams did it, and now everyones doing it. just because everyone doesn't copy cat previous success doesn't mean there aren't other ways to win. especially when the system you're criticizing almost reached the finals 2 out of their 4 years in Phx and were a top team, only second to San Antonio in a stacked Western Conference league. to pretend that system can't be successful is ridiculous since it was. this ring or nothing talk is stupid.
I understand that but it's not just his offensive systems. It's his body of work. He's had a history of being close-minded, hard-headed and a tendency to alienate the star players of his team. In a players league that's incredibly hard to get past.

The only reason his systems worked is because he had a top10 PG (top5 offensive) running it and explaining the role to the other players. It's clear his offensive system needs a great offensive PG to run, and without it he's just another mediocre filler type coach in the NBA.


Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
D'Antoni is a one trick pony who was the perfect coach for the '05-'07 Suns, but also had the perfect roster for him. His system doesn't work without a great point guard, and he also underestimates the importance of a post game. History has proven that great post players win championships far more often than great point guards do. I saw his system exposed in New York for 4 years, and while it's way too early to say for sure, I don't see it working out in LA. Nash will be back, but he'll be 39 this season, is injured right now, and it still won't solve all of their problems. I don't think D'Antoni can adjust to different rosters, and maximize his player's potential even if they're talented and proven, but don't fit into his narrow view of basketball. They don't have a roster of guys who complement Nash perfectly, and with Kobe, Howard and Gasol, Nash is not going to be running the show the way he was in Phoenix, much less at 39. And in the end, how many championships did Phoenix win with D'Antoni? No wait, how many times did they make the finals? Now how many times did LA with a mix of Kobe and their interior game?

Agree 100%, essentially what i just said but Shaqattack may have phrased it better.

[DukeDelonte13]

I know its unpopular to say but Mike Brown probably would have been the better coach for this roster. The early losses were kinda reminiscent of the 10' Cavs season when they picked up shaq. They stumbled out of the gates and a lot of that was due to MB tinkering with lineups and being stubborn with decisions he made pregame. He was experimenting at the expense of losing games. It took a while for things to settle down. I think things would have eventually gelled with MB.

On top of that, MB let Lebron do whatever the hell he wanted to do on offense. He's not the type of coach that force Kobe/Nash or the roster to play a certain way. When you got two of the best guards of the decade in your backcourt it seems like that wouldn't be such a bad thing to do.


Furthermore i'd take MB's defense over D'antoni's offense any day. Nobody disputes that defense wins championships. D'antoni's system? :confusedshrug:

[IGOTGAME]

I know its unpopular to say but Mike Brown probably would have been the better coach for this roster. The early losses were kinda reminiscent of the 10' Cavs season when they picked up shaq. They stumbled out of the gates and a lot of that was due to MB tinkering with lineups and being stubborn with decisions he made pregame. He was experimenting at the expense of losing games. It took a while for things to settle down. I think things would have eventually gelled with MB.

On top of that, MB let Lebron do whatever the hell he wanted to do on offense. He's not the type of coach that force Kobe/Nash or the roster to play a certain way. When you got two of the best guards of the decade in your backcourt it seems like that wouldn't be such a bad thing to do.


Furthermore i'd take MB's defense over D'antoni's offense any day. Nobody disputes that defense wins championships. D'antoni's system? :confusedshrug:

:applause:

[kNIOKAS]

LA BABy
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/502a70deecad048452000001-400-/dwight-howard-los-angeles-lakers.jpg

[lakerfreak]

Laker fans are so quick to ignore the positive points after a stupid loss. They ignore the nice wins that involved great offensive efficiency, but then they wait for Dwight Howard to miss 100 free throws, and for players to play without intensity to say "the coach sucks".

God forbid should the blame ever go on the core of the team.

[Shepseskaf]

I know its unpopular to say but Mike Brown probably would have been the better coach for this roster.
It will take a long time for the LA stans to admit this, but its true.

The bottom line is that Jim Buss took daddy's business and ruined it. The decision to hire Brown over Rick Adelman last year is the event that set this entire disaster in motion.