Man charged in double murder of teens who broke into home.

[longhornfan1234]

When you make the decision to break into someones house, you are no longer a victim. Too much crazy out there to not put yourself / family first before a person who broke in. I know most here disagree, but I'm shooting first. Its an easy problem to solve. Stop breaking into peoples houses. I would've filled them up with lead too.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=8898346

[Brunch@Five]

ahem, did you actually read the article? Shot one teenager first, had him defenseless but still alive and then proceeds to kill him in cold blood, does not call police. Later the second teenager comes down, shoots her, has her defenseless but still alive, shoots at her a couple more times, with a final shot to finish her some while later.
How can you possibly argue that this is not murder, even if they were breaking in?

[LBJ 23]

Why would she laugh at him after being shot. This man told a strange story.

[longhornfan1234]

ahem, did you actually read the article? Shot one teenager first, had him defenseless but still alive and then proceeds to kill him in cold blood, does not call police. Later the second teenager comes down, shoots her, has her defenseless but still alive, shoots at her a couple more times, with a final shot to finish her some while later.
How can you possibly argue that this is not murder, even if they were breaking in?

Put yourself in the position of someone who hears two people breaking into his home.The burden in such a case falls squarely on the shoulders of those who began the altercation.

[kNIOKAS]

When you make the decision to break into someones house, you are no longer a victim. Too much crazy out there to not put yourself / family first before a person who broke in. I know most here disagree, but I'm shooting first. Its an easy problem to solve. Stop breaking into peoples houses. I would've filled them up with lead too.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=8898346
Stop trolling, retard.

[Cangri]

The teens shouldn't have broken to his home, but this guy seems to have mental problems, he had them both defenseless and he just decided to kill them.

[yobore]

Wow, so that's the starting point for the homeowner's story. Even if it's true he is spending the rest of his life in jail for sure. Putting the gun under a wounded person's chin and firing...

I get the feeling it's mostly a fabrication too. Why would he wait a day to call the cops? Why would the girl be laughing after she got shot? Why would she go down the stairs after hearing gunshots? With his bizarre story I'll hold off on even believing they broke in.

[TheMan]

Wow, so that's the starting point for the homeowner's story. Even if it's true he is spending the rest of his life in jail for sure. Putting the gun under a wounded person's chin and firing...

I get the feeling it's mostly a fabrication too. Why would he wait a day to call the cops? Why would the girl be laughing after she got shot? Why would she go down the stairs after hearing gunshots? With his bizarre story I'll hold off on even believing they broke in.
This

The dude just seems to be off, that story makes no sense.

BTW, if the teens are black (I doubt it, it's in Minnesota) he'll get off with a slap on the wrist...if they were white, he's gonna fry:lol

[nathanjizzle]

OP you know that they wernt shot during the break in right? the uncle knew about the break in and when the family gathered for thanks giving thats when he shot them. but your cosigning this? people like you are extremely stupid.

[Kungfro]

This

The dude just seems to be off, that story makes no sense.

BTW, if the teens are black (I doubt it, it's in Minnesota) he'll get off with a slap on the wrist...if they were white, he's gonna fry:lol

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2238705/Familys-outrage-star-students-murdered-mans-basement-claims-robbed-home-Thanksgiving.html

[TheMan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2238705/Familys-outrage-star-students-murdered-mans-basement-claims-robbed-home-Thanksgiving.html
That is cold blooded murder, no doubt. If someone breaks into my home and I see they are down after I shot them, I'm calling the police. That old dude just straight executed them when they were already down and posed no threat, that's just murder and you can't defend that but the OP will try because he's just goofy that way:facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

Since we don't know the whole story.....I will say this.


You break into someones house = expect to get shot/killed.

deal wit it.

[longhornfan1234]

OP you know that they wernt shot during the break in right? the uncle knew about the break in and when the family gathered for thanks giving thats when he shot them. but your cosigning this? people like you are extremely stupid.
Lol, what? Read the article, blood.

[longhornfan1234]

That is cold blooded murder, no doubt. If someone breaks into my home and I see they are down after I shot them, I'm calling the police. That old dude just straight executed them when they were already down and posed no threat, that's just murder and you can't defend that but the OP will try because he's just goofy that way:facepalm
You can't take chances. He could've got back up and harmed Byron.

[longhornfan1234]

Thank God they weren't black. White guilt libs would have came out the woodworks to defend their voting base.

[ripthekik]

Smith said he shot her and she also fell down the stairs. He said he tried to shoot her again, and when his Mini 14 rifle jammed, she laughed at him.

Smith told investigators that made him mad: "If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," he said, according to the complaint.
:wtf: :wtf:


Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm.
this is the important point here. Would a reasonable person fear that they are in danger of harm after seeing 2 teenagers walking down from the stairs? Are they holding guns themselves?

Unless he can prove it beyond reasonable doubt, should be easy for the prosecuting lawyer to get his ass for murder. he crossed the line.

and OP :facepalm so i can just bait anyone to come into my house and shoot them, and get out murder free? wtf? some kid steals candy from me and I can shoot him in the face too? :facepalm

[chazzy]

The shooter is way too honest. He's screwed

[Kungfro]

Since we don't know the whole story.....I will say this.


You break into someones house = expect to get shot/killed.

deal wit it.

If he had simply shot them and called the police, he'd probably be fine. He admitted to a lot more then that though.


When the teenager tumbled down the stars, Smith shot him in the face as he lay on the floor, looking up.
'I want him dead,' the complaint quoted Smith as telling an investigator.
He dragged the body into his workshop and then sat in the chair, the complaint said. When Kifer began walking down the stairs, he shot her and she fell down the stairs.
He tried to shoot her again with his rifle, but the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him, the complaint noted.
'If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,' Smith, 64, told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.
He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.
'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

[Jailblazers7]

Yeah, that dude is going to jail. No point in even arguing about it.

[MetsPackers]

Dude should fry. What kind of regular citizen is just ok with executing people who are already shot, kids none the less. Shoots them, drags their bodies to his garage, executes them. I hope this dude has the biggest blackest molestingest buttholelovingest cellmate in Minnesota

[Sharmer]

Any reasonable person, would not act in this way.

I don't have gun, we have different laws in Australia.

However I do various weapons around the house, and if I had my home broken into, I wouldn't hesitate to use them. The difference is I wouldn't be intent on killing them, just defending myself.

We have the right to protects ourselves, however that doesn't mean we are entitled to kill intruders who don't pose a immediate threat.

If I was the defense, I would be arguing that the he made the statements under stress, and wasn't in a normal state of mind, and it was really fear that motivated the additional shots.

[Lebron23]

That B1tch is crazy.

[Lebron23]

Pictures of Haile Kifer and Nicholas Brady

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSob=c&GSlh=1&GRid=101316906&

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2239878/Nicholas-Brady-Haile-Kifer-Teens-tied-home-burglary-day-Thanksgiving.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[Remix]

dumbass kids looking for drugs.

[gigantes]

about the girl laughing- truth can be stranger than fiction, so you never know. laughter can also be a nervous or even hysterical reaction.

considering the generally positive characters of the teenagers, i'd also suspect that drugs might be involved.

the homeowner went over the line, no doubt... but my point is, his story is not necessarily a fabrication IMO. there will be plenty of ways they can verify / debunk it by testing and analysis...

[OhNoTimNoSho]

wtf is wrong with these kids? Cousins, young, semi attractive going around robbing houses..

[Heavincent]

You break into someones house = expect to get shot/killed.

deal wit it.

This.

[AngelEyes]

Anyone here ever watch Deadwood? Reading about this story kind of reminds me of Miles and Flora from Deadwood.

[Hazard]

Homeowner is a paranoid coward, just like the OP. Whatever happened to bashing someones face in? Guess what, if those teens posed any kind of threat that old fart would have never gotten a shot off. He's just a sick sadistic piece of shit, human waste in its purest form.

[andremiller07]

Since we don't know the whole story.....I will say this.


You break into someones house = expect to get shot/killed.

deal wit it.

This x 2

Non of this happends if they don't break in and be scumbags, dumbasses have to pay the penalty.

[chazzy]

This x 2

Non of this happends if they don't break in and be scumbags, dumbasses have to pay the penalty.
Not the death penalty. The threat was neutralized after he shot each of them initially, the execution style follow up is what's punishable.

[AlphaWolf24]

If he had simply shot them and called the police, he'd probably be fine. He admitted to a lot more then that though.


- True...but you are thinking through your own consience.

- Not every one thinks the same way...who knows what this guy has been through/how he reacts to people invadeing his own home.

- these are the risks you face when trying to invade someones Most valueable area's....you might Die......you might come across someone who ( when threatened) will react with extreme violence..

- :confusedshrug:

[yobore]

Maybe she did laugh but the story as a whole story still doesn't make sense to me. In his story he shoots the boy, executes him, moves the body, then waits for the girl. If he's scared for his life at that point, how does he move the body, but not call the police? If up to here the story's true, she almost certainly heard the gunshots in which case she probably would either run away or call out to see her cousin is OK. Assuming he's telling the truth and she also goes in the basement, it's the latter. Here lies another opportunity to not kill someone, he could respond "I am armed go away." No he quietly waits to take down the second one.

Regardless of the kids breaking in or not, this kind of paranoid or bloodthirsty person is why other countries restrict guns.

[AlphaWolf24]

Not the death penalty. The threat was neutralized after he shot each of them initially, the execution style follow up is what's punishable.


How was the threat nuetralized?....If they are still alive they could still be threat.

again....you are thinking as a person safe in your enviroment......you might still feel threatend with a wounded stranger i the house.

[AlphaWolf24]

Maybe she did laugh but the story as a whole story still doesn't make sense to me. In his story he shoots the boy, executes him, moves the body, then waits for the girl. If he's scared for his life at that point, how does he move the body, but not call the police? If up to here the story's true, she almost certainly heard the gunshots in which case she probably would either run away or call out to see her cousin is OK. Assuming he's telling the truth and she also goes in the basement, it's the latter. Here lies another opportunity to not kill someone, he could respond "I am armed go away." No he quietly waits to take down the second one.

Regardless of the kids breaking in or not, this kind of paranoid or bloodthirsty person is why other countries restrict guns.


once again.....when someone breaks into your house....you might not be the most clear thinking person...(clearly this old man was not thinking clearly)...he was in a enhanced state of the most basic instinct we have......survival.



- we all react different...this guy's testosterone kicked in...and he killed with extreme violence.

- Lesson #1......don't invade an old mans house......he might be crazy.


duh.

[kNIOKAS]

I don't know why you guys bother trolling. A killing is a killing, especially given those circumstances (if they are true). One shall not kill. How could you even argue against that...
AlphaWolf you scumbag.

[Kungfro]

- True...but you are thinking through your own consience.

- Not every one thinks the same way...who knows what this guy has been through/how he reacts to people invadeing his own home.

- these are the risks you face when trying to invade someones Most valueable area's....you might Die......you might come across someone who ( when threatened) will react with extreme violence..

- :confusedshrug:

I'm not defending what these kids were doing, they were stupid for breaking into someone's home. I mainly responding to the op who seems be implying that this man was wrongly accused, even though he admitted to wanting these kids dead and firing more shots then he needed to.

[IcanzIIravor]

once again.....when someone breaks into your house....you might not be the most clear thinking person...(clearly this old man was not thinking clearly)...he was in a enhanced state of the most basic instinct we have......survival.



- we all react different...this guy's testosterone kicked in...and he killed with extreme violence.

- Lesson #1......don't invade an old mans house......he might be crazy.


duh.

If what he is saying is how it went down, then he was remarkably cool given the situation. His initial reaction is all good, but the kill shots certainly is cold blooded murder. Only thing that will save him is the jury picturing someone breaking in their house and thinking what they would do. Clear cut self defense leading to murder leading to a jury either being hung or finding him not guilty.

[ripthekik]

Seriously guys, from a legal perspective, the judges will see whether a reasonable man will react the same way as he did or not. So it doesn't matter how HE personally felt. He could have PTSD from someone breaking in and raping his ass 5 years earlier and it wouldn't matter. It's how a reasonable man would react in such situation.

Then we will have to look at the facts of the case. When you find out that someone breaks into your house, do you shoot them? Possibly. But what after you see them in full light, as teenagers, and unarmed? 1st shot, out of panic, ok, arguable. 2nd shot? That's where he crossed the line. He would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the kids had weapons, and how they were perceived as life-threatening to him. If the kids weren't carrying any weapons, it's extremely hard for him to justify what he did.

Do you guys think the law will give you full power to do whatever you like in such situations? Someone who breaks into your house, and you have the right to murder them? You don't take the law into your own hands.

[Lebron23]

He's a sadistic old man.

[ace23]

Hate to agree with the troll OP, but the homeowner did what he had to do. You want to be hard and try to rob people, you should be prepared to pay the price.

Reminds me of some Lil Herb lyrics. :lol

[AlphaWolf24]

I don't know why you guys bother trolling. A killing is a killing, especially given those circumstances (if they are true). One shall not kill. How could you even argue against that...
AlphaWolf you scumbag.


- If we kill animals in order to eat/cloth are Body/Fuel are machines.....why would it not be ok to eliminate a person who clearly has no regard for others

- Humans kill so many great/inteligent creatures in order to supply our gluttony....Killing someone who breaks into your house should be a given..


:confusedshrug:

[AngelEyes]

I don't know why you guys bother trolling. A killing is a killing, especially given those circumstances (if they are true). One shall not kill. How could you even argue against that...
AlphaWolf you scumbag.


What if the intruders had guns and the homeowner shot the perpetrator out of fear or self defense. Is that understandable or is it not?

[AlphaWolf24]

If what he is saying is how it went down, then he was remarkably cool given the situation. His initial reaction is all good, but the kill shots certainly is cold blooded murder. Only thing that will save him is the jury picturing someone breaking in their house and thinking what they would do. Clear cut self defense leading to murder leading to a jury either being hung or finding him not guilty.


The thing that will save him is...

- He did nothing wrong.....he was in his own house......when 2 strangers broke into his home.


- You can sit here now and say he should have done this....he should have done that......

It's much different when your adrenaline kicks in.....and you are in survival mode...

- again.....everyone reacts different.....I've seen some people who are calm...I've seen many guy's go crazy when they are in that mode.....

- You cannot fault someone for reacting in a very violent way...when 2 strangers break into thier house.....he was in Survival 100% mode.....

[AngelEyes]

I don't know why you guys bother trolling. A killing is a killing, especially given those circumstances (if they are true). One shall not kill. How could you even argue against that...
AlphaWolf you scumbag.

I don't think it's necessary to call Alpha a scumbag, he's just offering a different viewpoint. I understand perfectly well what people are saying about this guy's actions being excessive but homeowners also need to feel they are protected when they're in their own home. They can't fear that someone can enter their home and they cannot protect themselves for fear of going to prison. I think every case is unique and in this case he may have gone too far.

[IcanzIIravor]

The thing that will save him is...

- He did nothing wrong.....he was in his own house......when 2 strangers broke into his home.


- You can sit here now and say he should have done this....he should have done that......

It's much different when your adrenaline kicks in.....and you are in survival mode...

- again.....everyone reacts different.....I've seen some people who are calm...I've seen many guy's go crazy when they are in that mode.....

- You cannot fault someone for reacting in a very violent way...when 2 strangers break into thier house.....he was in Survival 100% mode.....

That's incorrect. I applaud you for taking a simplistic approach to the situation, but it sounds a bit more complicated than that. I'm fine with his initial reaction, but I find it difficult to believe in the end with the last few shots he still was being carried simply by fear and adrenaline and judging by his statements he was very sane, rational and matter-of-fact in what he did in the end. He was not in fight or flight mode whatsoever at that point. Reminds me of the store owner in Oklahoma who thwarted an attempted robbery. Shot one assailant taking him out, chased the other, but didn't catch him, returned to his store and saw the other guy was still down for the count, went and reloaded, came back and killed him. Do you think at that point it wasn't murder as well?

I don't see how you can read the articles and not come to the conclusion that what started out as self defense turned into cold blooded murder. I'm fine with you being okay with that and chalking it up to them deserving it, but it still was self defense leading to murder.

[longhornfan1234]

He never set out to kill anyone that day and they committed a felony by breaking in to his house. The situation was entirely of their making. At worst it's voluntary manslaughter for letting his emotions get the best of him after being burgled numerous times.

[AngelEyes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAnMUPNJtUw

This is what I was reminded of after hearing of this story, this scene being from Deadwood. Miles and Flora are two kids who were attempting to rob the Bella Union, owned by Cy Tolliver. After they are caught Cy beats them unmercifully, he then proceeds to taunt and execute them.

Warning: video is graphic

[IcanzIIravor]

He never set out to kill anyone that day and they committed a felony by breaking in to his house. The situation was entirely of their making. At worst it's voluntary manslaughter for letting his emotions get the best of him after being burgled numerous times.

I'm fine with that. I am even good with him getting off without any consequences, but I gotta call it like I see it.

[kNIOKAS]

- If we kill animals in order to eat/cloth are Body/Fuel are machines.....why would it not be ok to eliminate a person who clearly has no regard for others

- Humans kill so many great/inteligent creatures in order to supply our gluttony....Killing someone who breaks into your house should be a given..


:confusedshrug:
First of all, animal is not the man. They are different, they are to be treated differently.

Second, "eliminating a person who clearly has no regards for others" would be such a no-regard-for-others thing to do. Can you see it?
Also, burglarly is punished by law institution handing out a jail sentence/other punishment. Burglarly is not punished by killing the violator. That's the law. Now, the man is saying it wasn't self-defense, therefore he killed two people. That's it.

[ace23]

He's definitely going to jail, though, just for the way he detailed the series of events. :roll:

[bmulls]

The key fact in this case is that he went and shot both of them a second time. Had he shot the kid in the head and killed him instantly it would be a totally different story. What he did to the girl was especially fcked up.

I support his right to defend himself and his property with deadly force, but he clearly crossed the line from victim to aggressor here.

[AngelEyes]

The key fact in this case is that he went and shot both of them a second time. Had he shot the kid in the head and killed him instantly it would be a totally different story. What he did to the girl was especially fcked up.

I support his right to defend himself and his property with deadly force, but he clearly crossed the line from victim to aggressor here.

Great Post. :applause: Very logical response.

[chazzy]

The key fact in this case is that he went and shot both of them a second time. Had he shot the kid in the head and killed him instantly it would be a totally different story. What he did to the girl was especially fcked up.

I support his right to defend himself and his property with deadly force, but he clearly crossed the line from victim to aggressor here.
Sums it up

[InspiredLebowski]

Get the feeling it didn't go down exactly like this psycho said it did.lol no shit. people acting like this was some routine home invasion the castle doctrine applies to.

[Solidape]

Here is the deal for those of you saying that the shot person could have been a threat.

He shot the girl.....she laughed......he plugged more lead into her.......she was gasping for air "for a few minutes"......

THEN he decided to blow her brains out!! <------:no:

That last part is why he should go to jail!!

[Flagrant 2]

I'm glad those two little shithead kids are dead. If I was that man, I would have tied them up together, legs and arms, and proceed to take a hot steaming pile of shit on their bodies as their tied together begging for mercy. I wouldn't stop. I would proceed to take ex-lax and diarrhea all over their souls.

[RoseCity07]

I don't know what to make of this guy. His story is so strange that I can't tell if he's being serious or lying.

Either way he needs to be locked up. He murdered them.

[KevinNYC]

He never set out to kill anyone that day and they committed a felony by breaking in to his house. The situation was entirely of their making. At worst it's voluntary manslaughter for letting his emotions get the best of him after being burgled numerous times.

The principle is very easy to understand. You have the right to defend yourself if your life is in danger. You don't have the right to murder anyone regardless of whether or not they have committed a crime.

Why are you even defending him when you realize he has at the very least committed voluntary manslaughter?

And in this case it's unclear whether or not his life was ever in danger.

[kNIOKAS]

I don't think it's necessary to call Alpha a scumbag, he's just offering a different viewpoint. I understand perfectly well what people are saying about this guy's actions being excessive but homeowners also need to feel they are protected when they're in their own home. They can't fear that someone can enter their home and they cannot protect themselves for fear of going to prison. I think every case is unique and in this case he may have gone too far.
Talk how about home should be the place where one feels safe and secure to welcome anybody taking a visit. Crimes channel it other way, I guess. But it's more thing of Amurica also, you can see it in movies so well. There must be one psycho/bad guy who comes in a home and kills everybody, for no good reason. You barely get to see that in European movies. The theme of abusive invader must be so common in the American mind. Then they feel they have to own guns, protect themselves and everything. To other people this seems odd. :confusedshrug:

[TheMan]

I can't believe there are people here defending that wacko who executed those two stupid kids.

It's really very simple, had he killed each kid with one shot, then that's in self defense because the old guy ain't gonna wait to see if the kid has a gun or a knife, I understand that, I would do the same thing...

This is where you guys who defend him should focus on, after the pyscho shot the first kid, he was so sure the kid couldn't harm him anymore that he got up close and physically moved him, and I'm betting he put his gun in his pocket or on the floor to move him with two hands. That act right there tells you the nutjob knew that kid wasn't a threat anymore. If I shot someone and he went down, I would stand 10 feet away, gun aimed at him warning him that if he moved I'd pump another bullet in him and then I'd call the police. The old guy moved the kid, stood on top of him and shot him in the face...if you morons can't see that that is murder:facepalm

Do I also need to explain how a girl being shot and grasping for breath while the old dude put the gun under her chin and blew her head off as murder for you slow guys too?

Don't forget, the murderer never called police and first thing he asked his neighbor was if he knew a good lawyer,<===== he knows he fvcked up.

You have a right to defend your home and property, you don't have the right to execute.

[Scoooter]

What a dirt bag. His description of what happened gave me chills. A "good clean finishing shot"? Ugh, I hope he suffers.

[sundizz]

I can't believe there are people here defending that wacko who executed those two stupid kids.

It's really very simple, had he killed each kid with one shot, then that's in self defense because the old guy ain't gonna wait to see if the kid has a gun or a knife, I understand that, I would do the same thing...

This is where you guys who defend him should focus on, after the pyscho shot the first kid, he was so sure the kid couldn't harm him anymore that he got up close and physically moved him, and I'm betting he put his gun in his pocket or on the floor to move him with two hands. That act right there tells you the nutjob knew that kid wasn't a threat anymore. If I shot someone and he went down, I would stand 10 feet away, gun aimed at him warning him that if he moved I'd pump another bullet in him and then I'd call the police. The old guy moved the kid, stood on top of him and shot him in the face...if you morons can't see that that is murder:facepalm

Do I also need to explain how a girl being shot and grasping for breath while the old dude put the gun under her chin and blew her head off as murder for you slow guys too?

Don't forget, the murderer never called police and first thing he asked his neighbor was if he knew a good lawyer,<===== he knows he fvcked up.

You have a right to defend your home and property, you don't have the right to execute.

It's all about perspective.

If I knew my retired grandfather had his house broken into 8 times I'd be very worried for him. Having your house, your HOME, broken into goes well beyond the theft. Your very concept of personal safety is shattered. Generally, it is a traumatizing experience. I can't even imagine how I'd feel as an old man if people kept breaking into my house. There is nothing the cops did to help him, or to catch who did it.

From further reports, it seems like these teens did this to him multiple times.

We really don't know how normal/crazy he is. He could just be a little bit crazy, and got put into a terrible situation....and he snapped.

I really don't feel sorry for these "teens". They were not 11 or 12 year olds.

I for one am glad he did what he did.

Not saying he is smart either. He should of moved, or installed a legit security system. He seems old school though. Finally got the opportunity and went old west on them. Cold blooded. But deserved.