Ama're Stoudemire Accepts Sixth Man Role

[no pun intended]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8688804/amare-stoudemire-new-york-knicks-accept-sixth-man-role-sources-say

Good job Amar'e. I'm proud of you.

GG. Knicks are legitimate contenders now.

[DuMa]

Amare/Sheed :bowdown:

[ClutchOver9000]

:pimp:

[Whoah10115]

Awful.

[SevereUpInHere]

This is some heartwarming shit right here. So stoked to hear this.

:cheers:

[Y2Gezee]

Just adds to their versatility. They can play the traditional lineup with him starting, but either the offense changes if you take Kidd out of the starting spot, or the defense changes if you take out Brewer. Chandler and Amare battle for screening opportunities. Melo and Amare have to take more jumpers than they usually would.

If Woodson decides to bring Amare off the bench, they get the best 6th man in the league to what is already a strong bench, and they rely so much less on the 3pt shot. Which is what has been their downfall in 2 of their losses vs Memphis and Brooklyn.

And instead of shaking things up, they slide Amare right into their position of weakness right now. Which is consistency and athleticism at the 4/5 spot off the bench, and an offensive focus when Melo is off the court. Plus the ability to input a great offensive lineup without playing Melo at the 5 or forcing feeding Sheed.

[knickswin]

the problem I see is that amar'e and carmelo both want to play the same role.

amar'e actually put up more points on better efficiency than carmelo when he played that role in 2010, but carmelo gets the edge because he draws in more defenders because he can effectively put the ball to the floor from inside and he can pass better

I just don't see how there's going to be enough time for both of them to get into their grooves

[Whoah10115]

Getting excited about this is just settling for an easy answer. We wanted to have Amare and Melo together...but they're not. Why are we paying Stoudemire this money? So Carmelo can rebound much less than him and Amare do do what? Two PG's. One being a guy he's played great with and the other is freakin Jason Kidd.


Sorry, this is awful. Why didn't we just amnesty him instead of Billups then? Last year was the final say on Stoudemire? This is stupid.

[TinselTime12]

Like it matters. Knicks are just not that good.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Like it matters. Knicks are just not that good.

1st place in East

[The Nets]

1st place in East

Last time I checked, it was Miami Heat. You living in last century?
:eek:

[Shepseskaf]

1st place in the Atlantic
Fixed

[DMV2]

Just adds to their versatility. They can play the traditional lineup with him starting, but either the offense changes if you take Kidd out of the starting spot, or the defense changes if you take out Brewer. Chandler and Amare battle for screening opportunities. Melo and Amare have to take more jumpers than they usually would.

If Woodson decides to bring Amare off the bench, they get the best 6th man in the league to what is already a strong bench, and they rely so much less on the 3pt shot. Which is what has been their downfall in 2 of their losses vs Memphis and Brooklyn.

And instead of shaking things up, they slide Amare right into their position of weakness right now. Which is consistency and athleticism at the 4/5 spot off the bench, and an offensive focus when Melo is off the court. Plus the ability to input a great offensive lineup without playing Melo at the 5 or forcing feeding Sheed.
It'd make the Sixth Man race an interesting one if he can still produce, especially when the Sixth Man role is now geared towards scoring wing players(G-SF).

Odom and Jamison are the only two 6th Man-winning PF/C in the past 10 years. At one time, it was McHale's and Walton's of the world who were winning the 6th Man award.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2nd place in Atlantic

Fixed
fixed

[Spaulding]

This is a big step forward for the Knicks.

Good news indeed.

[Clifton]

There is no room for Amare on that team. Chandler is the guy who catches lobs, and Carmelo is the guy who hits midrange Js and creates in the post.

He needs to play enough to show that he can still put up 25ppg. And then traded. Not given away, mind you, but traded for solid pieces.

If the Knicks can get the right deal for him, they could be real contenders, as opposed to whatever they are now.

[Y2Gezee]

There is no room for Amare on that team. Chandler is the guy who catches lobs, and Carmelo is the guy who hits midrange Js and creates in the post.

He needs to play enough to show that he can still put up 25ppg. And then traded. Not given away, mind you, but traded for solid pieces.

If the Knicks can get the right deal for him, they could be real contenders, as opposed to whatever they are now.


The right deal for Amare is a guy like Amare. They have everything. Their roster is built perfectly to compliment both Melo and Amare and Tyson. What are they going to trade him for a 2 guard? They're already extremely deep there....PG? They've got great value there with Raymond and Kidd for 3 mil each, and you won't get equal value for Amare in a trade for a pg upgrade (Or the other team wouldn't if they tried to get him). That leaves frontcourt, where they'd run into the same problem. If they did trade him for a big, it would need to be a big that can space the floor, and I doubt any of them could do it better than Amare. It would be one thing, if the team had no depth, but they are among the deepest teams in the league even without 2 starters playing this season.


The Knicks weaknesses of over reliance on the jumpshot, and rebounding get cured when you bring back Amare. So will the over reliance on Carmelo. All of their close games end up with him playing too many minutes, because he's the only player that can really have the offense run through him.

It will be nice when he comes back, so all the speculation can just be put to rest. I fully expect for him to start still, and just have his minutes staggered.

[Trentknicks]

The right deal for Amare is a guy like Amare. They have everything. Their roster is built perfectly to compliment both Melo and Amare and Tyson. What are they going to trade him for a 2 guard? They're already extremely deep there....PG? They've got great value there with Raymond and Kidd for 3 mil each, and you won't get equal value for Amare in a trade for a pg upgrade (Or the other team wouldn't if they tried to get him). That leaves frontcourt, where they'd run into the same problem. If they did trade him for a big, it would need to be a big that can space the floor, and I doubt any of them could do it better than Amare. It would be one thing, if the team had no depth, but they are among the deepest teams in the league even without 2 starters playing this season.


The Knicks weaknesses of over reliance on the jumpshot, and rebounding get cured when you bring back Amare. So will the over reliance on Carmelo. All of their close games end up with him playing too many minutes, because he's the only player that can really have the offense run through him.

It will be nice when he comes back, so all the speculation can just be put to rest. I fully expect for him to start still, and just have his minutes staggered.
Exactly, expect STAT to play a good chunk of his minutes next to Sheed or Camby. Both can hit the mid range J and Sheed's range is even further than that. Both of those will pick up the rebounding and defensive slack, however Amare gets more boards than Melo.

Amare & Felton PnR all day, with Sheed waiting for the open 3 or Camby with the mid range jumper :rockon:

[Y2Gezee]

If Amare plays like he did last year once Woodson took over on defense, well hopefully better with the training camp, then I think that the best lineup in the NBA (currently Felton/Kidd/JR/Melo/Tyson) will replace Tyson with Amare. With that guard play and the way Melo/JR/Kidd/Felton are playing defense, adding Amare into that offense will be scary. Amare with 4 strong passers, shooters, and defenders back in his most productive position at Center (where he's actually better defensively).

[Just2McFly]

When Amare recognizes defense is a part of the game, then make a thread.:sleeping

[Whoah10115]

The Knicks do not need to trade Amare for a guy who can space the floor.


The reason Amare and Melo is not a matter of play styles...they just do not fit.

[Nash]

2nd unit:

Kidd
JR(after Shump returns)
Novak
Amare
Camby

Looks good on paper.

[Scoooter]

I don't get keeping both PGs in the starting lineup. You want at least one of them with Amar'e.

[The Nets]

1st place in my dream
Fixed. Come to think of it, according to a Knicks fan the Knicks win title every year. The fact that other teams such as Lakers and Heat have won in recent seasons is just an illusion, it happens in an alternative universe.

[airchibundo507]

I don't get keeping both PGs in the starting lineup. You want at least one of them with Amar'e.

Kidd can't even penetrate. Prigioni and JR will do fine running the pnr with Amare off the bench. Sheed and Novak can space the floor.

[CLTHornets4eva]

What is amare's timetable?

[airchibundo507]

What is amare's timetable?

bout a month

[Y2Gezee]

bout a month

Probably 3 weeks. Might be back mid-December. He had a 6 week timetable.

[Y2Gezee]

The Knicks do not need to trade Amare for a guy who can space the floor.


The reason Amare and Melo is not a matter of play styles...they just do not fit.


What does that even mean?

[no pun intended]

What does that even mean?
Haha I was wondering the same thing. They do not fit because of their play styles.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Well Done Amare :applause:

Now Woodson has to design a really great rotation to ensure that

1. He gets just the right amount of pick and roll to keep things ticking over.
2. The ball keeps moving.

[Rubio2Gasol]

What does that even mean?

Melo is one of those rhythym players that needs the ball or at least make a move to succeed. He's not a floor spacer which he'll kinda become playing pick and roll with Amare.

Likewise, Amare isn't a weakside cutter/shooter which is what happens to him playing the iso- ball movement game with Melo.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

The Knicks do not need to trade Amare for a guy who can space the floor.


The reason Amare and Melo is not a matter of play styles...they just do not fit.
huh

[Bandito]

This is really cool of him. His ego is not as big other stars in the NBA and that is good if this team want to go forward.

[bdreason]

That's one high paid 6th man.

[All Net]

For now.. Lets see if he is still ok with it when he's playing.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

For now.. Lets see if he is still ok with it when he's playing.
Truth lol. This is the same guy who punched a fire extinguisher...

[KungFuJoe]

Truth lol. This is the same guy who punched a fire extinguisher...

Yes, because making a bonehead move such as punching a fire extinguisher is EXACTLY like changing your mind about coming off the bench.

The correlation is uncanny!

[hawkfan]

Bad move by the Knicks.
Melo at power forward is too physically demanding on him.
This isn't going to work.
Amare needs to start. The only thing is that if he doesn't start, Amare should play 35 minutes per game.
After this season, Amare becomes more tradeable, since he will only have 2 years left on his deal.

[Clutch]

Fixed. Come to think of it, according to a Knicks fan the Knicks win title every year. The fact that other teams such as Lakers and Heat have won in recent seasons is just an illusion, it happens in an alternative universe.
Finally someone gets it :applause:

[Trentknicks]

Finally someone gets it :applause:
BACKUP HAS ARRIVED!

[R.I.P.]

Probably scared of being traded to the Lottery Lakers. :D

[bagelred]

Perfect! Exactly what the Lakers need. :cheers:

[niko]

It makes more sense. He can't play near the hoop when Melo is out there. His range is not long enough to get jumpers off him. If you put him off the bench he can play more to his strengths on offense, and it gives the bench offense, rather than starting all the offensive players and bringing all the defensive players off the bench (and the bench not being able to score). Add Shump in February, and it becomes a deep team with very defined roles, all things i like.

[bluechox2]

best bench in the nba

[Graviton]

Knicks paying 19 million for a bench player, genius.

NBA contracts are so retarded, a guy can have 1 okay season and statpad, then he can get a 5 year 100 million deal and play like a scrub yet still get payed like a superstar. Can't even blame the owners because it's the system, if one owner doesn't overpay another will. So it creates a market of scared owners that throw money away just to stay competitive. There should be an amnesty option every 2 seasons to motivate players.

[All Net]

Perfect! Exactly what the Lakers need. :cheers:

:no:

[Rubio2Gasol]

[QUOTE=Graviton]Knicks paying 19 million for a bench player, genius.

/QUOTE]

Wouldn't you rather Gibson start over Boozer?

[nightprowler10]

Wouldn't you rather Gibson start over Boozer?
Touche.

[Eric Cartman]

Knicks paying 19 million for a bench player, genius.

NBA contracts are so retarded, a guy can have 1 okay season and statpad, then he can get a 5 year 100 million deal and play like a scrub yet still get payed like a superstar. Can't even blame the owners because it's the system, if one owner doesn't overpay another will. So it creates a market of scared owners that throw money away just to stay competitive. There should be an amnesty option every 2 seasons to motivate players.

Although i do have to say he is possibly the worst defender in the league for his position, he is an incredibly dominant scorer at this very moment. Sure he isn't worth 100 million only a handful of guys in the league are, but let's not act like he is Rashard Lewis or Mark Madsen.

[NumberSix]

http://s18.postimage.org/5als874yv/Untitled.png
Awesome. :dancin

[blablabla]

he's still gonna have to play with melo whether he's starting or coming off the bench
but i see tyson getting less minutes especially if he continues playing like this
with melo and stat playing c and pf

[Whoah10115]

What does that even mean?



That means you don't build a team around Carmelo and Amare.

[Whoah10115]

It's stupid to think Amare can't play because he and Anthony play in the same area or whatever that means. I've seen Anthony play with Camby and Nene in Denver. We can't play him with Amare and Chandler?


If we get Ryan Anderson, that's the key? The issue is they don't fit together because of the kinds of players they are. If Chauncey had stayed, that would have been the difference. Now we have Jason Kidd and are running 2 PG's. If there is a time for it to work, then it's now.



Bad move by the Knicks.
Melo at power forward is too physically demanding on him.
This isn't going to work.
Amare needs to start. The only thing is that if he doesn't start, Amare should play 35 minutes per game.
After this season, Amare becomes more tradeable, since he will only have 2 years left on his deal.



You're right, but no one is listening.

[DuMa]

thats ridiculous. A'm'a're cant play a 6th man role :facepalm

[niko]

thats ridiculous. A'm'a're cant play a 6th man role :facepalm

Why not?

[iDunk]

I want Amare in a Carl Landry role. 25-30 minutes off the bench.

[Y2Gezee]

It's stupid to think Amare can't play because he and Anthony play in the same area or whatever that means. I've seen Anthony play with Camby and Nene in Denver. We can't play him with Amare and Chandler?


If we get Ryan Anderson, that's the key? The issue is they don't fit together because of the kinds of players they are. If Chauncey had stayed, that would have been the difference. Now we have Jason Kidd and are running 2 PG's. If there is a time for it to work, then it's now.






You're right, but no one is listening.


He played, scored well and won with Nene, Camby, AND Kenyon Martin (a player very similar to Amare on the offensive end)....PLUS AI running around dominating the ball as he playing began himself out of the NBA. He can do it, doesn't mean that's what's best for the team.

Anyways. The lineup of Felton/Kidd/Brewer/Melo/Tyson fits very well together. It is most successful starting lineup in the NBA, because they can play defense at all 5 positions, specifically Melo who can defend the pf position (even if it's a legit pf), and rebound the position while giving the Knicks a huge offensive advantage. Meanwhile, when either one of Tyson or Melo go to the bench, the team struggles and is currently searching for the right player to back them both up with Rasheed Wallace and even played Chris Copeland....that's where Amare is needed.

So you have the most successful starting lineup. Add Amare to the bench with JR Smith/Iman Shumpert/Novak/Wallace/Camby/Prigioni and you cement the fact that you have the best, most well rounded bench in the NBA. I mean that team off the bench could be as good as the starting lineup for the Knicks in 2010 when they were "reborn" . That's where the games will really be won. They're going to blow teams out of the water (especially weaker teams). They're going to limit minutes for everyone as well, which will keep them fresh for the post season.

[Whoah10115]

I'm not gonna get over how terrible and ridiculous this is.


We amnestied Billups to get Chandler, but to preserve having the two stars. There's one season where they're both oft-injured and neither one plays well (yet somehow Carmelo makes an All-NBA Team) and now Amare is out?


Make fun of Amare's rebounding all you want. He's not bad. He's always around 9 and never playing crazy minutes. But more importantly, even 8RPG is more than 7. 7 is more than the 5.8 per36 that Brewer gets us. That kind of rebounding helps Chandler rebound. We cannot win with this rebounding. This is the sort of issue that can keep us in the 1st round. We're gonna max Amare to come off the bench, when the whole idea was to sacrifice everybody to have these two guys work together...just so our rebounding can suck?

[Y2Gezee]

I'm not gonna get over how terrible and ridiculous this is.


We amnestied Billups to get Chandler, but to preserve having the two stars. There's one season where they're both oft-injured and neither one plays well (yet somehow Carmelo makes an All-NBA Team) and now Amare is out?


Make fun of Amare's rebounding all you want. He's not bad. He's always around 9 and never playing crazy minutes. But more importantly, even 8RPG is more than 7. 7 is more than the 5.8 per36 that Brewer gets us. That kind of rebounding helps Chandler rebound. We cannot win with this rebounding. This is the sort of issue that can keep us in the 1st round. We're gonna max Amare to come off the bench, when the whole idea was to sacrifice everybody to have these two guys work together...just so our rebounding can suck?

He can't rebound off the bench? :coleman:


He's going to be playing close to 30 minutes a game off the bench or starting. He damn well better rebound

[Whoah10115]

He played, scored well and won with Nene, Camby, AND Kenyon Martin (a player very similar to Amare on the offensive end)....PLUS AI running around dominating the ball as he playing began himself out of the NBA. He can do it, doesn't mean that's what's best for the team.

Anyways. The lineup of Felton/Kidd/Brewer/Melo/Tyson fits very well together. It is most successful starting lineup in the NBA, because they can play defense at all 5 positions, specifically Melo who can defend the pf position (even if it's a legit pf), and rebound the position while giving the Knicks a huge offensive advantage. Meanwhile, when either one of Tyson or Melo go to the bench, the team struggles and is currently searching for the right player to back them both up with Rasheed Wallace and even played Chris Copeland....that's where Amare is needed.

So you have the most successful starting lineup. Add Amare to the bench with JR Smith/Iman Shumpert/Novak/Wallace/Camby/Prigioni and you cement the fact that you have the best, most well rounded bench in the NBA. I mean that team off the bench could be as good as the starting lineup for the Knicks in 2010 when they were "reborn" . That's where the games will really be won. They're going to blow teams out of the water (especially weaker teams). They're going to limit minutes for everyone as well, which will keep them fresh for the post season.



Melo does not rebound the position. How can people get on Amare when Anthony rebounds less, even while at PF? This is not Marc Gasol's rebounding numbers looking worse than they really are. We do not rebound well. I don't know what you mean by most successful starting 5, but the Grizzlies have a better 5, clearly.


That Denver team always won 50 games. They won 50 with AI, then 54 and 53 with Billups. AI wasn't a great fit for the team, tho Melo handled it just fine.


Clearing the lane for Anthony is not what's best for him. He's best when he's not catered to. The last two seasons (not including this season so far) his game has changed. I always liked Anthony and I never thought he was a ball-stopper. That's something that we saw glimpses of towards the end of his last full season in Denver, and throughout his last actual season. And it got worse with the Knicks, especially last season. He's playing better now. The best thing he's doing is he's committing to defense. Offensively, I've seen him play better in Denver. But the last few games, the man has been a beast. And despite his hot shooting, remarkably in control of his volume.


It's not because the lane is clear.



Also, Amare can rebound off the bench (tho I worry that he'll neglect it in that role and focus on scoring). But the team rebounding needs to improve. We need a guy there to improve.

[niko]

I'm not gonna get over how terrible and ridiculous this is.


We amnestied Billups to get Chandler, but to preserve having the two stars. There's one season where they're both oft-injured and neither one plays well (yet somehow Carmelo makes an All-NBA Team) and now Amare is out?


Make fun of Amare's rebounding all you want. He's not bad. He's always around 9 and never playing crazy minutes. But more importantly, even 8RPG is more than 7. 7 is more than the 5.8 per36 that Brewer gets us. That kind of rebounding helps Chandler rebound. We cannot win with this rebounding. This is the sort of issue that can keep us in the 1st round. We're gonna max Amare to come off the bench, when the whole idea was to sacrifice everybody to have these two guys work together...just so our rebounding can suck?

Amare's knees are shit. If his knees were great it makes sense to break up the starting unit and how we play to fit him in. But he's not going to be a 30+ minute a game guy and be effective. The bench role limits his minutes to the 20-25 (30 if possible only somtimes) a game. If you start him and play him 35 minutes a game, even if he's healthy his knees will explode and you'll need to play small anyway.

This argument talks like he is healthy. When did that occur?

[Y2Gezee]

Amare still deserves 25-30 minutes, somewhere in the middle likely.

[Crown&Coke]

At least he isn't making a big stink about not starting. That was my big worry, STAT coming back from injury and pouting about starting.

I really want to see if his work with Dream was worth it. He was never one to play with his back to the basket, and its tough for a guy to change his ways a decade into the league. But my fingers are crossed. I hope STAT comes back and plays his ass off

After years of NY bball in the NBA being non-existent, now NBA got 2 legit NBA teams in NY.

[schism206]

Well you can look at this a few ways. Sure it's not exactly ideal to know a multi-million dollar player is not a starter, but I think it's a good thing. Amare can ease back into playing, not put too much wear and tear on his knees and getting back into shape, and if he's willing to be a bench player (for now), more power to him. That's big, if the mentality is there. That just means the Knicks have more options. If they are playing well without him, let starting 5 continue. It's not like Amare won't play much, and it's not like you can't use him to close out games if he's got a hot hand or seems to be playing well with Melo. I think it's worth giving a shot, and if it doesn't work, you can always put him into the starting line-up once he's been integrated. Will be a mean second unit to deal with.

[Y2Gezee]

I do believe Amare will eventually start.

Woodson seems to want to play big, you can see that in the way he tries to start Kurt Thomas all the time. Kurt Thomas is simply useless offensively, and slows them down defensively, but still are productive on that end. He's also 40.

I feel like Amare coming back into the starting lineup where the pick and roll is working so great with the court spacing, and Melo has been allowed to work inside the paint with great court spacing and good passing will change a lot. He'd essentially have to take the role that Melo is playing right now in order to be most effective. Off the bench with the same spacing that Melo receives, he can actually showcase those post moves he payed 100,000 to learn.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Melo is a beast on the offensive glass. He don't get defensive rebounds because half the time he gets stuck closing out shooters, that's the reality, you can't be in two places at once.

[Whoah10115]

Amare's knees are shit. If his knees were great it makes sense to break up the starting unit and how we play to fit him in. But he's not going to be a 30+ minute a game guy and be effective. The bench role limits his minutes to the 20-25 (30 if possible only somtimes) a game. If you start him and play him 35 minutes a game, even if he's healthy his knees will explode and you'll need to play small anyway.

This argument talks like he is healthy. When did that occur?




Are his knees that bad? I haven't heard anything like that, just assumption.

[Y2Gezee]

Are his knees that bad? I haven't heard anything like that, just assumption.

No

[ConanRulesNBC]

I'm kind of interested in seeing how well Kidd/Amar'e do together. I hope it's as fun as Nash/Amar'e.

[Y2Gezee]

I'm kind of interested in seeing how well Kidd/Amar'e do together. I hope it's as fun as Nash/Amar'e.


Will look quite like Kidd/Tyson in Dallas/and now (even though Kidd doesn't handle a whole bunch in the pick and roll anymore playing the 2).

[Eric Cartman]

Funny thing is that people don't seem to remind how good Felton was playing alongside Amare and vice versa. It's gonna be unfair for other teams.

[R.I.P]

Stat come off bench is good. Everything is good now. Why mess it up. He and Melo is just not work. Or you guys want Melo come off bench ?