Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

[Clippersfan86]

I was just watching Malice in the Palace again and when dude shoves Artest... Artest who's a big, strong dude goes flying back like 10 feet. I remember in the early 00's I heard that Wallace could bench press more than anybody in the NBA (well more than Shaq) and had ridiculous strength in the weight room in general.

I seriously think Wallace would have wrecked Artest if that fight had happened and it was the only time I've ever seen Artest look pretty shook. Anybody have any opinions or facts on the upper body or overall strength of Big Ben? Even now he's jacked as hell and stronger than a lot of guys in his late 30's.

[AngelEyes]

I was just watching Malice in the Palace again and when dude shoves Artest... Artest who's a big, strong dude goes flying back like 10 feet. I remember in the early 00's I heard that Wallace could bench press more than anybody in the NBA (well more than Shaq) and had ridiculous strength in the weight room in general.

I seriously think Wallace would have wrecked Artest if that fight had happened and it was the only time I've ever seen Artest look pretty shook. Anybody have any opinions or facts on the upper body or overall strength of Big Ben? Even now he's jacked as hell and stronger than a lot of guys in his late 30's.

Had they actually fought and not flail at each other it would have been a great fight. Wallace was incredibly strong and could bench over 400, while Artest was massively strong himself and absolutely bat shit crazy.

[Clippersfan86]

Had they actually fought and not flail at each other it would have been a great fight. Wallace was incredibly strong and could bench over 400, while Artest was massively strong himself and absolutely bat shit crazy.

What's crazier is after the shove unlike most NBA players who try to nut up.... Wallace actually charges Artest to continue before giving people a chance to break it up. In otherwords he really was going to throw down. None of the fake tough guy shit.

[mjokc]

Clippersfan, it's time to go to bed bro.:lol

[zass]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mTLgEUniA

[KungFuJoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mTLgEUniA

That's old Shaq. Prime Shaq adds another poster to his massive collection.

[MJ(Mean John)]

That's old Shaq. Prime Shaq adds another poster to his massive collection.


Prime shaq licks his chops because he's throwing Big Ben in the rim with the ball

[plowking]

I was just watching Malice in the Palace again and when dude shoves Artest... Artest who's a big, strong dude goes flying back like 10 feet. I remember in the early 00's I heard that Wallace could bench press more than anybody in the NBA (well more than Shaq) and had ridiculous strength in the weight room in general.

I seriously think Wallace would have wrecked Artest if that fight had happened and it was the only time I've ever seen Artest look pretty shook. Anybody have any opinions or facts on the upper body or overall strength of Big Ben? Even now he's jacked as hell and stronger than a lot of guys in his late 30's.

Meh. The shove only sent Artest back that far because he didn't expect anything to happen.

Artest would wreck Wallace IMO. Dude was insanely big at that point. I'd say Artest was bigger than Wallace back then. Close to 270lbs.

[andremiller07]

Artest would wreck Wallace IMO. Dude was insanely big at that point. I'd say Artest was bigger than Wallace back then. Close to 270lbs.

Imo nethier would be hurt cause I seriously doubt ethier have any idea how to fight (like 99.9% of NBA players) basically they would just turn it into a wrestling match get exhasted and no one would have a scratch on them unless one they got from hitting the floor.

The only good punches/ hits ever landed in the NBA are cheap shots like Artest on Harden or Kenyon Martin on Maggette, I have never seen two guys exchange punches properly,its just basically grown men closing there eyes and throwing garbage weak haymakers.

Just being strong doesn't mean crap and I don't think people truely understand how hard it is to be a good fighter. It looks easy as hell on tv but its the hardest sport out even ESPN said so http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

[TheeBeast]

Ron got caught way off guard when Ben pushed him like that, he didn't even foul him that hard to deserve it either. To me it looked like Ben felt outmatched, that's what dudes do when they're scared they like to attack first.

Strength wise, Ron had about 20 pounds on Ben so I wouldn't say he was stronger based on a sucker push.

[Graviton]

Imo nethier would be hurt cause I seriously doubt ethier have any idea how to fight (like 99.9% of NBA players) basically they would just turn it into a wrestling match get exhasted and no one would have a scratch on them unless one they got from hitting the floor.

The only good punches/ hits ever landed in the NBA are cheap shots like Artest on Harden or Kenyon Martin on Maggette, I have never seen two guys exchange punches properly,its just basically grown men closing there eyes and throwing garbage weak haymakers.

Just being strong doesn't mean crap and I don't think people truely understand how hard it is to be a good fighter. It looks easy as hell on tv but its the hardest sport out even ESPN said so http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills
No MMA, that list is fail along with most ESPN rankings.

[andremiller07]

No MMA, that list is fail along with most ESPN rankings.

I am a fan of both sports and you can argue both ways imo, the thing that annoys the crap out of me in MMA is the horrible striking defense you have top fighters getting KO'ed by wild haymakers that are easy to see coming (e.g Martin Kampmann vs Johnny Hendrix).

[inclinerator]

shaq was stronger

[Rake2204]

Ron got caught way off guard when Ben pushed him like that, he didn't even foul him that hard to deserve it either. To me it looked like Ben felt outmatched, that's what dudes do when they're scared they like to attack first.

Strength wise, Ron had about 20 pounds on Ben so I wouldn't say he was stronger based on a sucker push.Ron Artest may have been caught off guard, but he knew what he was doing. He was doing something I'd employed in the past (and something Ndamukong Suh of the Detroit Lions tried to pull off this past weekend). Artest delivered a shot to Wallace while trying to make it look accidental. From there, his game was to play the, "I no understand why you so mad?" angle.

Again, I've never struck anyone in the head like Artest did, but there were a lot of times where I'd annoy someone on the basketball court enough to ilicit a response, at which point I'd then act surprised they were responding so negatively. It was never a matter of who was tougher between me and my opponent, it was a manipulation of that opponent and maybe more importantly, the officials. I feel that was the case with Artest's hit on Wallace. He knew it was something he could slip in that folks would later say, "It doesn't even look that bad!" then his plan was to act surprised that Wallace would respond so poorly.

Essentially, I don't think it was some kind of physical feat when Wallace pushed Artest. Artest wasn't there to fight, because it was a basketball game. The Pistons and Pacers had a nasty rivalry brewing at that point, very much pre-dating this brawl. Corliss Williamson and company had some solid run-ins with Brad Miller and Jermaine O'Neal (at one point I think throwing a ball directly at O'Neal), and Artest's antics had been recognized by Detroit for some time, mostly recently when Artest lifted his forearm into Hamilton's face in the previous year's Eastern Conference Finals.

So when Wallace took that shot to the back of the head, he knew what was happening. Artest knew what was happening too. It's just trying to throw down with Wallace would have meant that Artest's own ruse was all for naught, so Ron relented and let himself be handled so he could play the "I'm fine, I don't know what his problem is" card.

[NumberSix]

Wallace was a ****ing idiot for that. So unnecessary.

[Nashty]

Didn't Ben's mother died few days before and Artest cursed his mother? I heard this story somewhere :confusedshrug:

[mrbigshot1]

You guys are all retarded. Wallace would **** Artest up easily.

[Money 23]

LOL @ "strength" and "bench press" being sole reasoning for superior fighter.

[Rake2204]

Didn't Ben's mother died few days before and Artest cursed his mother? I heard this story somewhere :confusedshrug:It was one of Wallace's brothers who'd recently passed. And I'd never heard anything about Artest cursing Wallace's passed brother. I would very, very, very much doubt that ever occurred.

Back to the Artest foul, I still believe this was very clearly intentional on Artest's part and he made it to look subtle on purpose, again so he could play the innocent card. The play certainly didn't come out of nowhere, he and Ben had an escalating couple of minutes toward the end of the game that night. An excerpt from the recent Grantland story:


Stephen Jackson (guard/forward, Pacers): [Toward] the end of the game, I recall somebody on the team told Ron, "You can get one now." I heard it. I think somebody was shooting a free throw. Somebody said to Ron, "You can get one now," meaning you can lay a foul on somebody who he had beef with in the game.

O'Neal: I remember guys talking about that. I had just gotten taken out of the game maybe two or three minutes before that. We had just blown them out. You could see there was animosity.

Mike Brown (assistant coach, Pacers): You could see it start to get a little testy between Ron and Ben. There was a foul at one end, another foul, and then a borderline foul and problems beyond the foul. The game was out of hand. I was hoping the officials were going to kick both players out.

Jackson: Ben was the wrong person [to foul] because, if I'm not mistaken, his brother had just passed and he was going through some issues. I was guarding Ben, I let him score. I was trying to let the clock run out. And Ron just came from out of nowhere and just clobbered him. I'm like, "What the hell is going on?" I had no clue that was about to happen. When that happened, everything just happened so fast, man.

Ben Wallace (forward/center, Pistons): He told me he was going to hit me, and he did it. That was just one of those things. It happened in the heat of the battle.

Larry Brown: Everybody in our league takes hard fouls. There's a time and place for them. Maybe you put a guy on the line and don't let him shoot a layup late in the game to make him earn it from the free throw line. But when the game's over, I don't think many guys in our league are going out trying to hurt somebody. That was kind of unusual and I think that's maybe why Ben reacted the way he did. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7612311/an-oral-history-malice-palace

[STATUTORY]

no excuse for the way Ben Wallace reacted. he escalated the whole situation.

[iamgine]

I was just watching Malice in the Palace again and when dude shoves Artest... Artest who's a big, strong dude goes flying back like 10 feet. I remember in the early 00's I heard that Wallace could bench press more than anybody in the NBA (well more than Shaq) and had ridiculous strength in the weight room in general.

I seriously think Wallace would have wrecked Artest if that fight had happened and it was the only time I've ever seen Artest look pretty shook. Anybody have any opinions or facts on the upper body or overall strength of Big Ben? Even now he's jacked as hell and stronger than a lot of guys in his late 30's.
The reason Artest stepped back 10 feet was because he lost his balance. So that is no indication of Ben's strength at all.

[Artillery]

Artest's always been a dirty player and a rotten teammate(many of his Pacer's teammates have admitted as such). Ron should give his DPOY award to Rick Carlisle - he was the one that heavily campaigned for Artest and printed out his stats and gave them out to the voters. I can't recall any other DPOY winner needing their coach to win them the award in this fashion

[embersyc]

no excuse for the way Ben Wallace reacted. he escalated the whole situation.

But I suppose Artest probably had every right to go in the stands and defend himself?

:biggums:

[Rake2204]

no excuse for the way Ben Wallace reacted. he escalated the whole situation.Not to go back down this road again, but I really don't think there was much of an excuse for anyone's actions. It comes across a little funky when folks look only to Ben Wallace to explain the situation. There was no excuse for Ben to respond so poorly. No excuse for Artest to stick a needlessly rough foul with under a minute left in a 20 point game. No excuse for Pacers teammates to tell Artest it was "okay to take one". No excuse for Stephen Jackson to act in the manner he did. No excuse for a Pistons fan to decide it's a good idea to throw a plastic cup. And no excuse for Ron Artest to plow into the stands at random because the aforementioned plastic cup landed on his chest as he was laying down on a scorer's table.

At some point though, regardless of who started or created a situation, a person must be responsible for their own actions. Wallace's violent and illegal response is not justified because Artest hit him first. Similarly, any of the insanity that took place in the stands that night should not be justified by the claim that Wallace was the one who supposedly escalated things to begin with. At that point, we may as well blame Dr. James Naismith for inventing basketball, for it was his decision that ultimately led us to that one fateful night in 2004.

[Bandito]

LOL @ "strength" and "bench press" being sole reasoning for superior fighter.
Is not but if he connects that would probably break your face.:lol

[STATUTORY]

Not to go back down this road again, but I really don't think there was much of an excuse for anyone's actions. It comes across a little funky when folks look only to Ben Wallace to explain the situation. There was no excuse for Ben to respond so poorly. No excuse for Artest to stick a needlessly rough foul with under a minute left in a 20 point game. No excuse for Pacers teammates to tell Artest it was "okay to take one". No excuse for Stephen Jackson to act in the manner he did. No excuse for a Pistons fan to decide it's a good idea to throw a plastic cup. And no excuse for Ron Artest to plow into the stands at random because the aforementioned plastic cup landed on his chest as he was laying down on a scorer's table.

At some point though, regardless of who started or created a situation, a person must be responsible for their own actions. Wallace's violent and illegal response is not justified because Artest hit him first. Similarly, any of the insanity that took place in the stands that night should not be justified by the claim that Wallace was the one who supposedly escalated things to begin with.


I only single out ben wallace because his reputation escaped relatively intact after this incident. While we can't talk about Artest's legacy without the malice in the palace being brought up, Wallace was lightly punished by the league and has evaded any negative infamy from the fight. Artest is often seen as the singular source for the mayhem and even reading those comments by players/coaches they seem to indict Artest more than anyone. That's why I point out Wallace's role in the debacle

[Whoah10115]

Why "was"? You're stronger in your 30's than in your 20's.

[Clippersfan86]

You guys misunderstood. I was saying Ben would win a fight on a separate note, not based on a strength advantage.

[iamgine]

I only single out ben wallace because his reputation escaped relatively intact after this incident. While we can't talk about Artest's legacy without the malice in the palace being brought up, Wallace was lightly punished by the league and has evaded any negative infamy from the fight. Artest is often seen as the singular source for the mayhem and even reading those comments by players/coaches they seem to indict Artest more than anyone. That's why I point out Wallace's role in the debacle
Of course. If I step on your toe and you go ahead and blew up a gas station in your anger, you're gonna get most of the blame too.

[Rake2204]

I only single out ben wallace because his reputation escaped relatively intact after this incident. While we can't talk about Artest's legacy without the malice in the palace being brought up, Wallace was lightly punished by the league and has evaded any negative infamy from the fight. Artest is often seen as the singular source for the mayhem and even reading those comments by players/coaches they seem to indict Artest more than anyone. That's why I point out Wallace's role in the debacleFair enough, though I feel there's a reason why Artest is indicted much more than Wallace. Namely, it was Artest who ultimately decided to leap up into the stands and begin grabbing and smothering fans at random.

For instance, during the skirmish between Brooklyn and Boston last night, had C.J. Watson been pushed and then jumped into the crowd and pulled an Artest by pummeling fans at random, should Kris Humphries and Rajon Rondo be held equally accountable for Watson's independent hypothetical insanity? Should it not be remembered as the time C.J. Watson completely lost it? As opposed to "The time Rajon Rondo and Kris Humphries were equally to blame for the independently insane actions of another player who happened to be on the floor"?

Players have had dustups for as long as the league's been around. Blame for those player-to-player donnybrooks has always been thrown about to each participant. Eventually, the fights become nothing more than a footnote because nothing of note usually happens (ex: who was responsible for the Bird/Erving/Barkley fight?) The difference in the Palace fight, again, is the fact that somebody went insane.


Of course. If I step on your toe and you go ahead and blew up a gas station in your anger, you're gonna get most of the blame too.I suppose that's a much more succinct way of putting it.

[gasolina]

C.J. Watson
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[IamRAMBO24]

Wow what a bunch of nerds for blaming Ben.

If some punk tells me he is going to clobber me and actually do it, hell yea, I'm going to throw his ass 10 feet away from me. It is a natural response when being attacked: you want to push the culprit as far away as possible to position yourself for a fight.

It is all Ron Artest's fault; this guy is a punk kid. He instigated the fight, act oblivious to it all when he knew full well what he was doing, and then caved in like a b*tch by going to the stands to pick on a bunch of drunk nerds he knew he could easily beat up because he could not handle Ben.

[La Frescobaldi]

low center of gravity and legs like a bull.

His screens were immoveable object. Like running into Jupiter

elite strong. probably in the highest category of NBA all-time.

somebody else that's incredibly strong but of course nobody talks about it has been D Fisher. That little guy (by hoops standards) is pure dense muscle mass.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Wow what a bunch of nerds for blaming Ben.

If some punk tells me he is going to clobber me and actually do it, hell yea, I'm going to throw his ass 10 feet away from me. It is a natural response when being attacked: you want to push the culprit as far away as possible to position yourself for a fight.

It is all Ron Artest's fault; this guy is a punk kid. He instigated the fight, act oblivious to it all when he knew full well what he was doing, and then caved in like a b*tch by going to the stands to pick on a bunch of drunk nerds he knew he could easily beat up because he could not handle Ben.
lol at this clown. you act like they were on the streets or in a ring.

[swi7ch]

Not as strong as Wilt, that's for sure.

[Haymaker]

Not as strong as Wilt, that's for sure.

Yeah, Wilt could've taken on two raging pitbulls with his bare hands.

[Rake2204]

Wow what a bunch of nerds for blaming Ben.

If some punk tells me he is going to clobber me and actually do it, hell yea, I'm going to throw his ass 10 feet away from me. It is a natural response when being attacked: you want to push the culprit as far away as possible to position yourself for a fight.

It is all Ron Artest's fault; this guy is a punk kid. He instigated the fight, act oblivious to it all when he knew full well what he was doing, and then caved in like a b*tch by going to the stands to pick on a bunch of drunk nerds he knew he could easily beat up because he could not handle Ben.I don't think Ben Wallace should be held responsible for any part of the in-crowd riot. However, I definitely think he's responsible for his own actions. I don't think his Artest push was a knee-jerk reaction nor natural. I think he knew things had been on-going with Artest and I think there's a good chance he knew Artest was going to be looking to plant something on him. As such, I think he was prepared to respond in the manner he did and chose to follow through. It was not an unstoppable response.

In truth though, if Artest fouled Wallace and Wallace responded as he did, and Rasheed and company separated the teams from each other (as they did), and things just fizzled out, we definitely wouldn't be talking about this incident today. Wallace would have probably seen a very small suspension because it's clear he made a poor decision with a push/punch above the shoulers. Depending upon how closely the league looked, Artest theoretically could have seen a suspension too for his sneaky neck hit on the initial drive. Both players did things during the initial scuffle that was preventable and controllable.

Stating Wallace's response was natural, was a response to being attacked and was therefore perhaps justified is similar to those who say Artest was justified for initiating a riot because a half empty plastic cup plopped onto his chest. I do not agree with this frame of thinking. Artest fouled Wallace and Ron was prepared to have it end at that. Wallace did not turn to find a flurry of punches coming his way. He wasn't forced to defend himself. Artest's act on Wallace sucked, but it was done.

Similarly, there was not a guy in the stands with 40 cups at the ready to lob at Artest with noone in sight to stop him. He threw one cup and it was over. Artest should have faced repercussions for his foul just as the cup thrower should have been punished for his decision. But in neither case were the responses by NBA basketball players in an NBA arena justifiable in my opinion.

[The Genius]

Yeah, Wilt could've taken on two raging pitbulls with his bare hands.

Yeah Wilt was not an average man.

[CavaliersFTW]

Strong enough to rip a german shepherd in HALF!

[IamSofaKing]

Strong enough to take on 2 Silverback gorillas

[schism206]

I like how Sheed's just trying to break everything up. Even though he's a technical foul machine... he's a good dude :D

[IamRAMBO24]

I don't think Ben Wallace should be held responsible for any part of the in-crowd riot. However, I definitely think he's responsible for his own actions. I don't think his Artest push was a knee-jerk reaction nor natural. I think he knew things had been on-going with Artest and I think there's a good chance he knew Artest was going to be looking to plant something on him. As such, I think he was prepared to respond in the manner he did and chose to follow through. It was not an unstoppable response.

In truth though, if Artest fouled Wallace and Wallace responded as he did, and Rasheed and company separated the teams from each other (as they did), and things just fizzled out, we definitely wouldn't be talking about this incident today. Wallace would have probably seen a very small suspension because it's clear he made a poor decision with a push/punch above the shoulers. Depending upon how closely the league looked, Artest theoretically could have seen a suspension too for his sneaky neck hit on the initial drive. Both players did things during the initial scuffle that was preventable and controllable.

Stating Wallace's response was natural, was a response to being attacked and was therefore perhaps justified is similar to those who say Artest was justified for initiating a riot because a half empty plastic cup plopped onto his chest. I do not agree with this frame of thinking. Artest fouled Wallace and Ron was prepared to have it end at that. Wallace did not turn to find a flurry of punches coming his way. He wasn't forced to defend himself. Artest's act on Wallace sucked, but it was done.

Similarly, there was not a guy in the stands with 40 cups at the ready to lob at Artest with noone in sight to stop him. He threw one cup and it was over. Artest should have faced repercussions for his foul just as the cup thrower should have been punished for his decision. But in neither case were the responses by NBA basketball players in an NBA arena justifiable in my opinion.

Ok so big Ben pushed mad Ronnie. Whoopti f*ckin' doo. Rondo choked and clawed Kissy right on the court. But at least Kissy didn't pick some dweeb standing nearby to clobber because he was too much of a wuss to take Rondo on.

Ronnie is just a punk kid for going into the stands and clobbering some goofy looking dude half his size.

That's the difference homie. This dude is so pathetic he had to change his name to Metta World Peace to somehow parade this Buddhist like persona in order to fix his reputation. You know that is a bit extreme and shows you how many issues he truly has. I wouldn't be surprise if he is actually mentally retarded: like having bi-polar or asperger disorder.

[Myth]

Ben Wallace is so strong that it took Chuck Norris 2 roundhouses to knock him out.

[d.bball.guy]

Strong enough to take on 2 Silverback gorillas
Beat me to it :roll: