Yahoo: David Stern stumbles again in his failed culture war against the Spurs [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

rmt

11-30-2012, 10:29 PM

Before the emperor of the NBA leaves his Olympic Tower office, this is the holy war that those within the San Antonio Spurs' extended family expected David Stern to eventually wage on Gregg Popovich and his program's culture. The commissioner burped that terse, threatening statement promising "substantial sanctions" to the rogue state of his totalitarian nation on Thursday night. This has been a long time coming out of the commissioner's office.

And yet, once more, Stern's tossed a temper tantrum that left everyone around him embarrassed, humiliated and wondering why he insisted on staying until February of 2014. All these years, Stern and his underlings privately complained and moaned that no one wanted to watch the Spurs, that they destroyed his TV ratings, that they were uninteresting, unappealing and impossible to market to the masses.

And now, this act of condemnation for Popovich would be bathed in the ultimate of twisted irony: Without the Spurs' stars, Stern was selling that the NBA logo had been desecrated, that a public trust had been betrayed.

Suddenly, Stern had to issue an apology to NBA fans because Popovich sent his stars home to San Antonio at the end of a long road trip. No one in Miami bought a ticket to watch Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, because those players are relevant to no one in Miami. Mostly, they come to watch LeBron and D-Wade, or they don't come at all. Few people watch the Spurs on national television

Derka

11-30-2012, 10:37 PM

I agree with all of this stuff and really love the article, but I understand the fine from the business side of things.

The real stickler in Stern's asshole is probably that the Spurs actually made a good game of it.

Blue&Orange

11-30-2012, 10:44 PM

never understood why the spurs were\are? considered boring.

jl1718

11-30-2012, 10:56 PM

never understood why the spurs were\are? considered boring.
Low ratings in the finals, not fair but that is why.

ElPigto

11-30-2012, 10:58 PM

Woj sure loves picking on the Knicks even though he didn't have to since there was already enough material (Substantial Sanctions).

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

StroShow4

11-30-2012, 11:05 PM

The part that makes Bruce Bowen out to be someone who didn't purposely try to injure people is cute.

Blue&Orange

11-30-2012, 11:07 PM

Woj sure loves picking on the Knicks even though he didn't have to since there was already enough material (Substantial Sanctions).

:lol :oldlol: :roll:
I love how everyone laughs at knicks picks, rate them D, nobody knew who wilson chandler was, knicks were bashed left and right, same thing with shumpert, and now all the sudden the competitive balance of the league was affected :oldlol:

Somehow Wilson Chandler became Shaq.

The punishment is generally in line with previous cases that involved violations of draft workout rules, although some team executives had expected the Knicks to be forced to forfeit future draft picks as part of any punishment.

dabulls23

11-30-2012, 11:13 PM

Nice article. I get the business aspect but that fine was just going overboard...

SourPatchKids

12-01-2012, 07:29 AM

Hogwash.

Djahjaga

12-01-2012, 07:49 AM

You mean to tell me David Stern's not retiring this coming February? Goddamnit.

Sharmer

12-01-2012, 09:16 AM

Spurs are not boring , just very repetitive.

blablabla

12-01-2012, 11:00 AM

The part that makes Bruce Bowen out to be someone who didn't purposely try to injure people is cute.
:oldlol:

kNIOKAS

12-02-2012, 03:54 PM

To some this article might be the second side to the story, and I love the article. But it's with agenda too, and you have to develop your own 3rd side on this.

I'm with Spurs and Popovich, anyway. Love them.

SCdac

12-02-2012, 04:00 PM

It's a good article, and not the only one of it's kind. This is another solid one.

Gregg Popovich angers David Stern but makes right decision in resting Spurs
http://nba.si.com/2012/11/29/gregg-popovich-spurs-heat/?eref=sihp

As for the article in this thread, this part stood out to me.

Against LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, against Chris Bosh and Ray Allen, what the Spurs did in a 105-100 wasn't an embarrassment to the NBA, but a celebration of it. This is how a franchise ought to be run, how winning is foremost importance. Popovich empowered his bench to hang with the defending champion Heat, and gave his group even greater confidence and belief for when they're called upon again. What happened was one of the most compelling Spurs' regular-season games, and easily the most mesmerizing game of this season.

La Frescobaldi

12-02-2012, 04:16 PM

The part that makes Bruce Bowen out to be someone who didn't purposely try to injure people is cute.

You mean this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--aLPOU2NcQs/TrIBpBfV9OI/AAAAAAAATLU/N_TWmX4mAkA/s640/bowen_kick.jpg

should have been banned for life for that alone.

BlueandGold

12-02-2012, 04:16 PM

Are you kidding me that this type of behavior is going on with stern and his office?

They don't forget how Stern wanted to infiltrate the inner sanctum of the Spurs with TV cameras and microphones, with the kind of phony, superficial behind-the-scenes access that went against how the franchise conducted its basketball business and kept its edge.

I'm pretty cynical but i seriously can't believe those type of measures were taken. Makes the Spurs four championships look all the more impressive if they were dealing with stuff like this.

This also surprised me a great deal, the end of the sentence.

Stern once declared that his fantasy NBA Finals would be the Lakers vs. the Lakers, and no one laughed in San Antonio because they understood Stern was stone-cold serious.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--david-stern-stumbles-again-in-his-failed-culture-war-against-the-spurs-194828970.html

edit: and this as well

When Yahoo! Sports uncovered a pattern of deliberate predraft rules violations that benefited the New York Knicks and penalized the rest of the teams, Stern did little. Brandon Rush blew out his knee in an illegal workout, Wilson Chandler was stashed for weeks in Atlanta so no one else could get access to him before the draft, and Stern fined that Cablevision empire essentially lunch money for a weekend shindig in the Hamptons with the Dolans.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 04:22 PM

bdreason

12-02-2012, 04:58 PM

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 05:05 PM

The winning-est franchise of the past decade was tanking? Sure looked like they were trying to win to me.

If they were trying to win, then why didn't their best players play that game? And what does winningest franchise of the past decade have to do with that one game?

outbreak

12-02-2012, 05:14 PM

Didn't the heat rest wade and lebron vs celtics last season? Lots of teams rest their stars how can the NBA single out the spurs for a fine. This leagues management is fast becoming more dodgy then the indian premier league is.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 05:22 PM

D-Rose

12-02-2012, 05:34 PM

What what a reach, and hack piece by Woj. Stern did it to protect TNT, which wanted to hype the game up. He also wants a bigger TV contract, and having teams tank games on national TV does not help him in achieving that goal.
You're the hack here. A coach doesn't have to play any one, he is paid to take a team to a title, not to gain viewers for TNT. If the NBA really wanted the Spurs to play their best guys, why put this game at the end of a 4 games in 5 nights stretch?

GTFO out of here with that bullshit. Freaking hack. negged.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 05:39 PM

You're the hack here. A coach doesn't have to play any one, he is paid to take a team to a title, not to gain viewers for TNT. If the NBA really wanted the Spurs to play their best guys, why put this game at the end of a 4 games in 5 nights stretch?

GTFO out of here with that bullshit. Freaking hack. negged.

No one said he had to play his players. In fact HE DIDN'T PLAY HIS PLAYERS. Stern gave the fine in order to deter them and other teams from doing it again.

And Popovich SHOULD care about the ratings. His salary is directly tied to the ability of the NBA to make money. If the NBA were not a $4 billion business, he would not make as much as he makes. If they did not have TV contracts, his salary would plummet. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

D-Rose

12-02-2012, 05:44 PM

No one said he had to play his players. In fact HE DIDN'T PLAY HIS PLAYERS. Stern gave the fine in order to deter them and other teams from doing it again.

And Popovich SHOULD care about the ratings. His salary is directly tied to the ability of the NBA to make money. If the NBA were not a $4 billion business, he would not make as much as he makes. If they did not have TV contracts, his salary would plummet. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You're a total hack. Just quit now before you look even stupider.

There's no reason a coach has to play his best guys if he feels he should rest them. It is his decision, not the league's. And no one cares about the ratings in a meaningless early season game. The playoffs are where it matters and the Spurs will play their best guys. The Spurs put a winning team on the court against Miami and that too without their best guys. You think Pop should change his strategy according to if they are on national tv or not? Freaking ridiculous.

As I said, you're a total hack. One of the worst posters in the history of ISH and clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. Please quit now. Please. :coleman:

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 05:46 PM

You're a total hack. Just quit now before you look even stupider.

There's no reason a coach has to play his best guys if he feels he should rest them. It is his decision, not the league's. And no one cares about the ratings in a meaningless early season game. The playoffs are where it matters and the Spurs will play their best guys. The Spurs put a winning team on the court against Miami and that too without their best guys. You think Pop should change his strategy according to if they are on national tv or not? Freaking ridiculous.

As I said, you're a total hack. One of the worst posters in the history of ISH and clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. Please quit now. Please. :coleman:

It was his decision you fcking idiot. He rested them. They did not play. Are you seriously this retarded?

D-Rose

12-02-2012, 05:49 PM

It was his decision you fcking idiot. He rested them. They did not play. Are you seriously this retarded?
Please kill yourself ASAP.

If it was his decision, then this wouldn't be an issue! Clearly, by fining him, the league is sending a message that he doesn't have this freedom if it's supposedly in the interest of everyone other than the team itself.

Hopefully the last post of yours will be the last one ever on ISH, I don't think we can take it anymore. Oh the horror of Sarcasm's inferior brain and posting.

:lebroncry:

G-train

12-02-2012, 05:52 PM

Stern is a control freak.
Pop can run his team however he wants within the rules.
There is no argument against this.

This is a great example of what the NBA has become, $$$ over winning.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 05:55 PM

Stern is a control freak.
Pop can run his team however he wants within the rules.
There is no argument against this.

This is a great example of what the NBA has become, $$$ over winning.

Who said Pop can't run his team how he wants?

D-Rose

12-02-2012, 05:57 PM

Who said Pop can't run his team how he wants?
Hey guys,

Apparently, this moron didn't get the memo that the Spurs were fined $250K for running their team how Pop wanted.

WHAT A DUMBASS HACK. :facepalm

G-train

12-02-2012, 05:59 PM

Who said Pop can't run his team how he wants?

David Stern fined him $250K for running his team within the rules, just not how he liked it. Pretty simple.
I'm not getting into debate with you, you're out of your mind.

bukowski81

12-02-2012, 06:02 PM

Who said Pop can't run his team how he wants?

Man, they got fined by Stern, which means that according to Stern they did something they werent supposed to do, which means that apparently for Stern, the Spurs cant run the team how they want.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:02 PM

Hey guys,

Apparently, this moron didn't get the memo that the Spurs were fined $250K for running their team how Pop wanted.

WHAT A DUMBASS HACK. :facepalm

Pop can bench his players anytime he wants, and Stern won't ever stop him. He might fine the team if they do it on national TV, and if Peter Holt is fine with paying the money, then those players will sit again.

G-train

12-02-2012, 06:05 PM

Yeah and Clippersfan86 could shoot you in the leg, go to jail, get out, then shoot you in the leg again.
But if he does the time, he can just shoot you again.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:06 PM

Man, they got fined by Stern, which means that according to Stern they did something they werent supposed to do, which means that apparently for Stern, the Spurs cant run the team how they want.

Fining a team is not the same thing as telling them how to run themselves.

If Stern gives a fine to a player for a hard foul, does that mean the player can never give a hard foul again? All a fine does is try to discourage a certain behavior. It doesn't stop you from doing that behavior again.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:07 PM

Yeah and Clippersfan86 could shoot you in the leg, go to jail, get out, then shoot you in the leg again.
But if he does the time, he can just shoot you again.

That's absolutely correct. I think you may be starting to get it. :cheers:

G-train

12-02-2012, 06:14 PM

That's absolutely correct. I think you may be starting to get it. :cheers:

But you're not. CF86 is prohibited from doing that.
This fine prohibits Pop from doing it.
CF86 cant post in jail, and a franchise cant run dishing out $250K if they wanted to rest 3 old guys once a week. Which hypothetically they can do that within the rules, and hypothetically they would get $250K fine every week, and they would run out of money.
It's a crime and punishment in Stern's mind, and it's over stepping his authority. These are principles.
Principles are slowly having no meaning in nba/society. Its dollars over principles. Its what "I think is right" over principles.
In fact, its $$ and "what I think is right" over truth.

bukowski81

12-02-2012, 06:17 PM

Fining a team is not the same thing as telling them how to run themselves.

If Stern gives a fine to a player for a hard foul, does that mean the player can never give a hard foul again? All a fine does is try to discourage a certain behavior. It doesn't stop you from doing that behavior again.

If a player gives a flagrant foul and gets fined it means that flagarant fouls are unacceptable and you will be punished for doing them. Thats the league preventing flagarant fouls.

Fining a team for choosing whatever players they want to choose means that for the league is unacceptable that a team can choose the players they want, they got fined becasue the lineup that Stern wanted wasnt used, how is that not telling them how to run their team?

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:23 PM

If a player gives a flagrant foul and gets fined it means that flagarant fouls are unacceptable and you will be punished for doing them. Thats the league preventing flagarant fouls.

Fining a team for choosing whatever players they want to choose means that for the league is unacceptable that a team can choose the players they want, they got fined becasue the lineup that Stern wanted wasnt used, how is that not telling them how to run their team?

So you are telling me flagrant fouls never happen because they are punished? :roll:

bdreason

12-02-2012, 06:24 PM

If they were trying to win, then why didn't their best players play that game? And what does winningest franchise of the past decade have to do with that one game?

You're claiming the Spurs were trying to lose the game. I'm establishing that accusing the winning-est franchise of the last decade of trying to tank a game is ridiculous and without merit, especially considering they led most of the game, and almost won.

bdreason

12-02-2012, 06:26 PM

And fining a player for a flagrant foul is an established rule, written in the rulebook.

Please point to me where in the NBA rulebook it states a coach cannot choose which players play the game.

bukowski81

12-02-2012, 06:27 PM

So you are telling me flagrant fouls never happen because they are punished? :roll:

Are you serious?? Im telling you that the league doesnt approve or accept flagrant fouls, hence the fine, hence the term "foul".

The league fining the Spurs means that they dont accept that they can choose whatever lineup they want, why is it so hard to understand??

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:29 PM

You're claiming the Spurs were trying to lose the game. I'm establishing that accusing the winning-est franchise of the last decade of trying to tank a game is ridiculous and without merit, especially considering they led most of the game, and almost won.

I am saying the Spurs didn't give their best effort. If their backups can keep the game within 5 points, don't you think that the starters would have blown them out?

If Popovich was so worried about rest, then why didn't he rest his guys in the easier matchup vs the Magic? Why did he pull them for the nationally broadcast game, which makes the league a lot more money? Tim Duncan can't make $20 million a year without the TV broadcasts. So why do something to screw the network over? If the NBA were to lose its network deals, it would lose all its money. It would go back to the way it was in the 1970s when we watched on tape delay. Is that what we want?

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:31 PM

Are you serious?? Im telling you that the league doesnt approve or accept flagrant fouls, hence the fine, hence the term "foul".

The league fining the Spurs means that they dont accept that they can choose whatever lineup they want, why is it so hard to understand??

I agree. The league doesn't accept what the Spurs did, so they fined them. That doesn't mean that the Spurs can't do it again, as long as they are ok with paying the fine.

And fines on flagrant fouls don't prevent flagrant fouls from happening. They just deter them. A player is allowed to go out there and commit as many flagrant fouls as he wants as long as he pays the fines, and accepts the suspensions.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:33 PM

And fining a player for a flagrant foul is an established rule, written in the rulebook.

Please point to me where in the NBA rulebook it states a coach cannot choose which players play the game.

Stern referenced the owners meeting a few years back, when they agreed that tanking was not ok.

G-train

12-02-2012, 06:36 PM

I am saying the Spurs didn't give their best effort. If their backups can keep the game within 5 points, don't you think that the starters would have blown them out?

If Popovich was so worried about rest, then why didn't he rest his guys in the easier matchup vs the Magic? Why did he pull them for the nationally broadcast game, which makes the league a lot more money? Tim Duncan can't make $20 million a year without the TV broadcasts. So why do something to screw the network over? If the NBA were to lose its network deals, it would lose all its money. It would go back to the way it was in the 1970s when we watched on tape delay. Is that what we want?

But it will never happen when team are balancing winning games with rest. Pop might rest his old guys a few times a season. As will the Celtics, and other teams with older players.
That Heat/Spurs game cost the NBA nothing, except made Stern look stupid.
They better get whatever rule the Spurs broke drawn up in writing pretty quick. I can't see the Spurs paying it tbh. Just PR by the NBA.

Sarcastic

12-02-2012, 06:42 PM

But it will never happen when team are balancing winning games with rest. Pop might rest his old guys a few times a season. As will the Celtics, and other teams with older players.
That Heat/Spurs game cost the NBA nothing, except made Stern look stupid.
They better get whatever rule the Spurs broke drawn up in writing pretty quick. I can't see the Spurs paying it tbh. Just PR by the NBA.

For the record, I agree that Pop should rest his players. Just don't do it on a nationally broadcast game. Advertisers paid millions of dollars to put their products on a game with Duncan vs Lebron, not Tiago Splitter vs Lebron. TNT paid millions of dollars to broadcast that game, and flew Barkley and Miller there to specially commentate for the game. The fans in Miami paid extra money for that game, and they will not get a chance to see Duncan play again in Miami this year, unless it's the Finals.

bukowski81

12-02-2012, 06:42 PM

I agree. The league doesn't accept what the Spurs did, so they fined them. That doesn't mean that the Spurs can't do it again, as long as they are ok with paying the fine.

And fines on flagrant fouls don't prevent flagrant fouls from happening. They just deter them. A player is allowed to go out there and commit as many flagrant fouls as he wants as long as he pays the fines, and accepts the suspensions.

And if they cant afford the fine they should use whatever lineup Stern wants? The bottom line is that a team should not be fined for not having the lineup that Stern wants.

ErhnamDjinn

12-02-2012, 06:55 PM

So you are telling me flagrant fouls never happen because they are punished? :roll:
wow you are reaching, the reason there are fines is to make you think twice about doing something, essentially telling you this cant be done,so in the spurs case this means what they did cant be done again. If you cant get that ur a moron.

Brick Rick

12-02-2012, 08:07 PM

G-train

12-02-2012, 08:29 PM

rmt

12-02-2012, 08:37 PM

For the record, I agree that Pop should rest his players. Just don't do it on a nationally broadcast game. Advertisers paid millions of dollars to put their products on a game with Duncan vs Lebron, not Tiago Splitter vs Lebron. TNT paid millions of dollars to broadcast that game, and flew Barkley and Miller there to specially commentate for the game. The fans in Miami paid extra money for that game, and they will not get a chance to see Duncan play again in Miami this year, unless it's the Finals.

Pop did what was best for his team. It was much easier to win the first 3 of the 4 games (in 5 nights) than to win against the defending champions. Should he throw/rest starters one of the games against an easier opponent (ORL, WAS, TOR) and risk still losing to the Heat? He played the percentages and took the surer wins.

Then there was MEM to consider - a division rival game - much more important (for the Spurs) than one against an opponent in the opposite conference. If the starters had played MIA, no way they win in overtime vs MEM. Duncan had to play 40:43 and Parker 43:25 in order to win.

Miami fans don't pay any extra money for a (TNT) Spurs game than do say Los Angeles fans for a non-TNT Spurs game. Just because it's on TNT does not affect the price - that's already factored in depending on the team.