Heat benched LBJ, Wade and Bosh .. NOT FINED

[winwin]

The last two games of the season last year the Heat benched Lebron, Wade and Bosh

[bagelred]

The last two games of the season last year the Heat benched Lebron, Wade and Bosh

This is a very narrow comparison isn't it? The situations are not similar.

[DaSeba5]

:biggums:

[blablabla]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F02CsS3c9E8/TVgTT2Y6ovI/AAAAAAAAEe0/m233NZrmPAQ/s1600/james-wade-bosh-bench.jpg

here they are laughing at stern

[Sharmer]

The last two games of the season last year the Heat benched Lebron, Wade and Bosh


It does indicate a arbitrary enforcement of rules and shows that teams can sit their players pre-playoffs, however if it's a prime time regular seasonable game, that's on TNT, than a different set of of rules apply. Which is inconsistent and unfair.

[fpliii]

here they are laughing with stern

fixed :cheers:

[GOBB]

This is a very narrow comparison isn't it? The situations are not similar.

The game was on TNT vs Boston. Yeah situations not similar :rolleyes:

The prices for these tickets weren't lowered cheap nor discounted due to the "situations" at hand either. It's ok to bench these players that fans PAID to see. Keep in mind Miami was on the road at that same as Spurs.

[jstern]

You didn't read the NBA's reason's for the fine, and the rules that they have for this. According to what they said, a big issue was that San Antonio didn't tell the NBA, or their opponent until like tip off, and they're supposed to inform.

[Sharmer]

You didn't read the NBA's reason's for the fine, and the rules that they have for this. According to what they said, a big issue was that San Antonio didn't tell the NBA, or their opponent until like tip off, and they're supposed to inform.

If that's true, then that seems fair.

[bdreason]

You didn't read the NBA's reason's for the fine, and the rules that they have for this. According to what they said, a big issue was that San Antonio didn't tell the NBA, or their opponent until like tip off, and they're supposed to inform.


oh really? Then how did I know about it a day before it happened? In fact, I bet there is an ISH thread talking about the Spurs players not playing at least 24 hours before the game... it was common knowledge and hardly sprung on the Heat.



Also, how is it required that a team tell its opponent who is going to play? Are they also required to tell them their rotation and how many minutes guys are going to play? Because I've never heard of such a ridiculous rule (probably because it doesn't exist).

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well those last two games aint nationally televised.
:sleeping

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Well those last two games aint nationally televised.
:sleeping
I remember that they were on TV.

[SCdac]

But dude this is Duncan, Manu, Parker, and Green we're talking about! Don't yall realize the amount of jerseys they sell compared to Lebron and crew?? Imagine all the little kids in Miami who went to sleep crying thursday night because they didn't get to see Duncan play. How dare Pop desecrate the game like that :cry:

[jstern]

oh really? Then how did I know about it a day before it happened? In fact, I bet there is an ISH thread talking about the Spurs players not playing at least 24 hours before the game... it was common knowledge and hardly sprung on the Heat.



Also, how is it required that a team tell its opponent who is going to play? Are they also required to tell them their rotation and how many minutes guys are going to play? Because I've never heard of such a ridiculous rule (probably because it doesn't exist).

I don't know what you knew, I'm just telling you what the league said.




The NBA announced Friday that the San Antonio Spurs organization has been fined $250,000 for its decision to send four players home prior to the Spurs' Nov. 29 game in Miami. The Spurs' actions were in violation of a league policy, reviewed with the NBA Board of Governors in April 2010, against resting players in a manner contrary to the best interests of the NBA.

NBA Commissioner David Stern stated: "The result here is dictated by the totality of the facts in this case. The Spurs decided to make four of their top players unavailable for an early-season game that was the team's only regular-season visit to Miami. The team also did this without informing the Heat, the media, or the league office in a timely way. Under these circumstances, I have concluded that the Spurs did a disservice to the league and our fans."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8695865/nba-fines-san-antonio-spurs-250000-sitting-players

[Burgz V2]

This is a very narrow comparison isn't it? The situations are not similar.

did fans not buy tickets to see those games? Did they not expect to see them on national TV (Boston game)?

if the argument Stern uses is centered on a commitment to provide the highest possible entertainment for the fans then this is exactly the same.

I'm impartial i think the fine was excessive, I also think that Pop has been pushing the limit on this for a few years, but i think if you are going to start fining people you are starting up a slippery slope.

[Bajanmale]

I cant believe fans of the game are really agreeing with what Popovich did. This is insane to me that no one see how arrogant and careless it was for him to send home his starters when so many people paid their hard earn money and invested their time in order to see the best vs best. I'm not a fan of Stern but I'm glad he stepped in and did something about it for the sake of the league. All it will take for people to see how bad this is for the NBA is if more teams started resting and sending home their starters!
:biggums:

[bballnoob1192]

It's okay SA will just get a petition going to secede from the NBA..........lawls 250k is like a drop in the bucket.........

[SCdac]

If only this board had polls. This Poll on Sports Illustrated says 92% of people don't give a shit about this.


Do you have a problem with Gregg Popovich's decision to rest his stars?

Yes: 834 votes (8.33%)

No: 9,184 votes (91.67%)

http://nba.si.com/2012/11/29/gregg-popovich-spurs-heat/

[bdreason]

I don't know what you knew, I'm just telling you what the league said.




http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8695865/nba-fines-san-antonio-spurs-250000-sitting-players



And I'm telling you the league's reasoning for the fine is laughable at best considering other teams, including the Spurs, have done this for years.


Either make a rule, and enforce it for everyone, or stop trying to tell a team who they can and cannot play on any given night.

[rmt]

I cant believe fans of the game are really agreeing with what Popovich did. This is insane to me that no one see how arrogant and careless it was for him to send home his starters when so many people paid their hard earn money and invested their time in order to see the best vs best. I'm not a fan of Stern but I'm glad he stepped in and did something about it for the sake of the league. All it will take for people to see how bad this is for the NBA is if more teams started resting and sending home their starters!
:biggums:

What you saying is that all games/fan's money aren't equal. That some games are more important than others and that teams can "disrespect" those fans (who also pay good money for tickets) at the end of the regular season. Are Heat fans more important than Wizard fans or those in Boston when the Heat's superstars sat? I guess the NBA would prefer that Pop lie - come up with some imaginary injuries than tell the truth about his stars' weariness (legit - because of the 4 games in 5 nights including double OT) . Rules must apply for all teams all the time - not just one team on a particular game - be consistent or else the NBA is showing favoritism and doesn't that hurt the integrity of the game?

[Clifton]

It does indicate a arbitrary enforcement of rules and shows that teams can sit their players pre-playoffs, however if it's a prime time regular seasonable game, that's on TNT, than a different set of of rules apply. Which is inconsistent and unfair.
You don't need to think so hard. Let your common sense out for a minute and see what it sees.

Benching guys before the playoffs ensures that, in a week, when the playoffs start, they'll be fresh and and will be playing better for the national tv games that people actually watch and expect to see the Miami Heat in.

In this case, Pop benched his guys for the game that people will actually be watching, hoping the see the Spurs in. Maybe, what, one of five games they'll be able to see them this year?

One action was obviously intentionally insubordinate, and a dangerous precedent. The other was one of these grey area things that to crack down on would be foolishness.

You also have to take into account the Spurs' history of issues with Stern, and the fact that Stern obviously favors LA and, for that matter, anyone over them. An issue in which I side with the Spurs and blame Stern 100%. But not in this case. I'd like to see the entire NBA be like the Spurs, for all the reason Stern hates them; but I don't want to see the entire NBA doing this. Bad idea to let it slide.

The Heat wouldn't have benched their guys if they had not earned a top playoff spot with great play the entire season.

[daily]

Last season was the lockout shortened season. Lot's of playoff teams rested players at then end of the year because they had been playing an insane schedule for months.


not comparable

[Eric Cartman]

Quick Question: Can you appeal in this type of situation?

[Nash]

Why only Heat? Every team rests their superstars a few games before playoffs starts.

[boozehound]

And I'm telling you the league's reasoning for the fine is laughable at best considering other teams, including the Spurs, have done this for years.


Either make a rule, and enforce it for everyone, or stop trying to tell a team who they can and cannot play on any given night.
This. It is complete idiocy on stern's part.

[boozehound]

You don't need to think so hard. Let your common sense out for a minute and see what it sees.

Benching guys before the playoffs ensures that, in a week, when the playoffs start, they'll be fresh and and will be playing better for the national tv games that people actually watch and expect to see the Miami Heat in.

In this case, Pop benched his guys for the game that people will actually be watching, hoping the see the Spurs in. Maybe, what, one of five games they'll be able to see them this year?

One action was obviously intentionally insubordinate, and a dangerous precedent. The other was one of these grey area things that to crack down on would be foolishness.

You also have to take into account the Spurs' history of issues with Stern, and the fact that Stern obviously favors LA and, for that matter, anyone over them. An issue in which I side with the Spurs and blame Stern 100%. But not in this case. I'd like to see the entire NBA be like the Spurs, for all the reason Stern hates them; but I don't want to see the entire NBA doing this. Bad idea to let it slide.

The Heat wouldn't have benched their guys if they had not earned a top playoff spot with great play the entire season.
this point of view is ridiculous. So, he wants to rest his old ass starters after playing a ton of games in 10 nights. Maybe hes trying to avoid injury mid-season. It should make no difference whether its the first game of the season or the last.

What if he benches timmy D because he missed the shootaround or something like that? People paid there hard earned money! Whaaaaaaaa! I want to see jesus and ganesh out there! I demand it.

Talk about an overreaching sense of entitlement.

[swi7ch]

The last two games of the season

That's why ^^^

[boozehound]

just to follow up. Here is a truehoop article about why greg rests his players like this.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/52046/did-popovich-or-stern-sit-those-players

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

You didn't read the NBA's reason's for the fine, and the rules that they have for this. According to what they said, a big issue was that San Antonio didn't tell the NBA, or their opponent until like tip off, and they're supposed to inform.
i knew they probably weren't playing around noon.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Quick Question: Can you appeal in this type of situation?
of course.

[Sarcastic]

2 games? :eek:

They should have suspended the 3 of them for the entire 2013 season.

[Dro]

You don't need to think so hard. Let your common sense out for a minute and see what it sees.

Benching guys before the playoffs ensures that, in a week, when the playoffs start, they'll be fresh and and will be playing better for the national tv games that people actually watch and expect to see the Miami Heat in.

In this case, Pop benched his guys for the game that people will actually be watching, hoping the see the Spurs in. Maybe, what, one of five games they'll be able to see them this year?

One action was obviously intentionally insubordinate, and a dangerous precedent. The other was one of these grey area things that to crack down on would be foolishness.

You also have to take into account the Spurs' history of issues with Stern, and the fact that Stern obviously favors LA and, for that matter, anyone over them. An issue in which I side with the Spurs and blame Stern 100%. But not in this case. I'd like to see the entire NBA be like the Spurs, for all the reason Stern hates them; but I don't want to see the entire NBA doing this. Bad idea to let it slide.

The Heat wouldn't have benched their guys if they had not earned a top playoff spot with great play the entire season.
Actually you may thinking too hard...This is a pretty ridiculous post..:facepalm

[Derka]

It does indicate a arbitrary enforcement of rules and shows that teams can sit their players pre-playoffs, however if it's a prime time regular seasonable game, that's on TNT, than a different set of of rules apply. Which is inconsistent and unfair.

No one said it had to be fair. Sitting your guys strategically in preparation for a postseason run isn't the same thing as sitting your guys to stick it to Stern on national television, which is exactly what Pop loves doing given how much Stern hates his team.

The NBA is a business before anything else, don't forget. The people paying TNT big dollars for advertising were told they'd have a premiere matchup right in the meat of the season to smear their feces all over. As soon as people found out that three marquee guys wouldn't be playing, they decided to not watch TNT that night, costing advertisers a bunch of money. TNT in turn looks to David Stern and asks "What the f*ck? We're cable and we need subscribers and advertising to stay in business and play your damn League's games, dude." Pop knew ALL of that and decided to stick it to Stern. And while I agree with what Pop did on a personal level, Stern has every right to fine them.

[jl1718]

No one said it had to be fair. Sitting your guys strategically in preparation for a postseason run isn't the same thing as sitting your guys to stick it to Stern on national television, which is exactly what Pop loves doing given how much Stern hates his team.

The NBA is a business before anything else, don't forget. The people paying TNT big dollars for advertising were told they'd have a premiere matchup right in the meat of the season to smear their feces all over. As soon as people found out that three marquee guys wouldn't be playing, they decided to not watch TNT that night, costing advertisers a bunch of money. TNT in turn looks to David Stern and asks "What the f*ck? We're cable and we need subscribers and advertising to stay in business and play your damn League's games, dude." Pop knew ALL of that and decided to stick it to Stern. And while I agree with what Pop did on a personal level, Stern has every right to fine them.
It's not Stern's job to tell teams how to manage their personal. Sitting guys in November is preparing for the post season as well, especially when you have a big game with a division opponent a day later. That game has more playoff implications than a throw away game with a Eastern conference opponent.

[Derka]

It's not Stern's job to tell teams how to manage their personal. Sitting guys in November is preparing for the post season as well, especially when you have a big game with a division opponent a day later. That game has more playoff implications than a throw away game with a Eastern conference opponent.

Let's not kid ourselves here...this had 10% to do with resting those guys and 90% to do with Pop sticking a middle finger in Stern's face over a stupidly-constructed schedule by dicking him over during primetime. Pop could have sat those guys against the horrific Magic and no one would have said a word. He did what he did with intent and none of it has anything to do with "These guys need rest."

I have no problem with what Pop did. But by the same token, I'm not mad at Stern for doing what he did because the League's contracts with its broadcast partners ARE his business and when a team screws with that, he has every right to respond.

[boozehound]

No one said it had to be fair. Sitting your guys strategically in preparation for a postseason run isn't the same thing as sitting your guys to stick it to Stern on national television, which is exactly what Pop loves doing given how much Stern hates his team.

The NBA is a business before anything else, don't forget. The people paying TNT big dollars for advertising were told they'd have a premiere matchup right in the meat of the season to smear their feces all over. As soon as people found out that three marquee guys wouldn't be playing, they decided to not watch TNT that night, costing advertisers a bunch of money. TNT in turn looks to David Stern and asks "What the f*ck? We're cable and we need subscribers and advertising to stay in business and play your damn League's games, dude." Pop knew ALL of that and decided to stick it to Stern. And while I agree with what Pop did on a personal level, Stern has every right to fine them.
you are an idiot if you think he did this to spite Stern. He does shit like this every season. It shouldnt matter when during the season. They had a tough schedule and he wanted his old ass team to get some rest. Almost all of the sports medicine studies support doing something like this to avoid unnecessary injury.

Lionel Hollins gets it

Grizzlies coach Lionel Hollins, whose team entered a half-game ahead of the Spurs for the best record in the Western Conference, said Popovich has a right to manage his team however he wants.

"I don't say it's bad. I don't say it's good," Hollins said. "That's Pop's decision. I do what I do with my team and he does what he does, and the 28 other teams do the same thing. Each coach has a responsibility to his players and his team."

[Derka]

you are an idiot if you think he did this to spite Stern. He does shit like this every season. It shouldnt matter when during the season. They had a tough schedule and he wanted his old ass team to get some rest. Almost all of the sports medicine studies support doing something like this to avoid unnecessary injury.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Pop could have benched the guys against the Magic and none of us are having this discussion right now. He chose the nationally-televised game against the best team in the East for a reason.

And as I've already said several times, I'm completely on board with Pop resting his guys at his discretion. But he knew exactly what he was doing with this and there was no way Stern would look like the good guy in response. Vintage Pop.

[SCdac]

I wouldn't say he did it merely to spite Stern. Spurs had a really dense schedule in November and Pop knows his guys better than anybody.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/533943_530022293677111_390744590_n.jpg

[ZMonkey11]

The people who are proponents of what Stern did are idiots. Pure and simple.

So what would be more important to you as a COACH,
a) playing Miami, a NON CONFERENCE team, possibly get beat and go in dog tired against a Memphis team who will probably be racing you for the best title in the West

or...

b) rest your players for a NON CONFERENCE game and have your players rested for a matchup against a CONFERENCE OPPONENT who will rival you for playoff position.

Hmmm, seems like I'd rather try and win the Memphis game after I had just finished playing a SHIT TON OF GAMES.

GTFO you idiots.

[upside24]

Different situations.

Pop made the right move resting his guys but the Heat had good playoff position and rested their stars to ensure no freak injuries to help them be fresher once the playoffs started.

The argument Stern used for the Spurs issue is the same as what the Heat did, just a different situation.

Personally, I didn't like when the Heat did it or Spurs.

You have to understand that the coaches are doing what is best for their team's chances of winning a championship which is more important than a few DNPs during the regular season.

[Artillery]

Different situations.

Pop made the right move resting his guys but the Heat had good playoff position and rested their stars to ensure no freak injuries to help them be fresher once the playoffs started.

The argument Stern used for the Spurs issue is the same as what the Heat did, just a different situation.

Personally, I didn't like when the Heat did it or Spurs.

You have to understand that the coaches are doing what is best for their team's chances of winning a championship which is more important than a few DNPs during the regular season.

Huh? Stern fined the Lakers $25,000 back in 1990 when Pat Riley didn't play Magic Johnson and James Worthy in the season finale at Portland in a marquee matchup. Riley said he was concerned about protecting his players from a nonsensical injury in a meaningless game. Stern fined him anyway. If anything, this proves that Stern is inconsistent and has blatant favoritism for the HEAT.

[monkeypox]

oh really? Then how did I know about it a day before it happened? In fact, I bet there is an ISH thread talking about the Spurs players not playing at least 24 hours before the game... it was common knowledge and hardly sprung on the Heat.



Also, how is it required that a team tell its opponent who is going to play? Are they also required to tell them their rotation and how many minutes guys are going to play? Because I've never heard of such a ridiculous rule (probably because it doesn't exist).


Ever heard of the straw the broke the camels back? Or nipping something in the bud? Obviously Pop has been doing this for awhile and obviously he's escalating. Just like a player that does something on the border and is slowly getting worse. You put a stop to it. You can't then go back and look at all the times everyone else did similar things and call it inconsistent.

Like Dwade puts a bandaid on his face for a cut. Then keeps it there for fashion. No one says anything. Then the fans start putting bandaids on their face, then players. The league steps in before players start wearing lenseless glasses and bowties on the court. There's a limit.

[Pointguard]

Are the Spurs in the playoffs already? Suppose Parker and or Duncan gets injured and they are in the lottery? Will the Spurs willingly give up their chance at the lottery if this did happen? Did Pop have to send home four players in the same game? Suppose the game went into overtime and they experienced foul trouble? Do teams really rest their players after 15 games, when they are only averaging 30 minutes per game? = Please give me the other example when this has happened?

[All Net]

You didn't read the NBA's reason's for the fine, and the rules that they have for this. According to what they said, a big issue was that San Antonio didn't tell the NBA, or their opponent until like tip off, and they're supposed to inform.

Pretty much

[bluechox2]

stern had all his money riding on san antonio

[cavsfanatic]

EVERY playoff team with a seed locked up does this. Miami ain't the only team so why bring only them up? Cavs did it when Lebron was here. Stop with the stupid threads

[bluechox2]

stern saw an opportunity and jumped at it

[Pointguard]

1. The second Pop does this with four healthy players at the same time - he was calling out Stern. Pop wanted the attention.

2. There is no team in the league that doesn't have a similar stretch and this has been been for years.

3. All of the players had played very few minutes in comparison with other starters around the league. Manu only played 356 minutes. A number most starters reached in 10 games but Gin had played in 15. Not one of the rested players tallied a very small 500 minutes at that time.

4. The first 15 games carry less attrition than any of the other games. Pop might have tried this nonsense every 15 games. And sit all of his stars out together to boot.

5. If he does it against the reigning champions - the one game that most vets have marked on their calendars, as its a game that they are motivated for, who knows when Pop would do it again.

6. If tragedy falls upon the team and they end up in the lottery - the tanked game puts the commissioner in a compromised position. And you can't tell New Orleans "well you should do it next year" if SA got the number one pick.

7. Foul trouble and would have also put a high profile national televised game in a compromised situation.

8. The TV contract means the revenue for all the teams is at stake when high profile games are measured for competitiveness. Yeah, all the teams can't like the move by the bonehead. Healthy players don't play in the beginning of the year to get rest isn't a good enough excuse to loose a possible 500 million on a TV contract because coaches want to flex a bit.



On number three above, Ginobli only playing 360 minutes, Wilt Chamberlain could have played nine games and played similar amount of minutes and in half the number of days as Gin, sometimes taking 20 hours to get from one place to another, sleeping in unfit beds, playing in worse conditions and a much faster pace, without masseuses or trainers, while scoring at a sum that would take Manu 50 games to reach and whole years worth of rebounds in those 9 games.

[SCdac]

I love how every one is suddenly an expert on the Spurs' health and their required minutes and rest. Comparing 35 year old Manu who has a history of injuries to Wilt Chamberlain? :rolleyes: ... You are seriously over thinking this Pointguard... 90% of people completely understand what Pop did. I can see not agreeing with Pop's move, whatever, but I'm surprised you're being so obtuse. Like is this your first year seeing something like this? The Spurs and countless teams do this routinely in some incarnation. Old news.

[boozehound]

1. The second Pop does this with four healthy players at the same time - he was calling out Stern. Pop wanted the attention.

2. There is no team in the league that doesn't have a similar stretch and this has been been for years.

3. All of the players had played very few minutes in comparison with other starters around the league. Manu only played 356 minutes. A number most starters reached in 10 games but Gin had played in 15. Not one of the rested players tallied a very small 500 minutes at that time.

4. The first 15 games carry less attrition than any of the other games. Pop might have tried this nonsense every 15 games. And sit all of his stars out together to boot.

5. If he does it against the reigning champions - the one game that most vets have marked on their calendars, as its a game that they are motivated for, who knows when Pop would do it again.

6. If tragedy falls upon the team and they end up in the lottery - the tanked game puts the commissioner in a compromised position. And you can't tell New Orleans "well you should do it next year" if SA got the number one pick.

7. Foul trouble and would have also put a high profile national televised game in a compromised situation.

8. The TV contract means the revenue for all the teams is at stake when high profile games are measured for competitiveness. Yeah, all the teams can't like the move by the bonehead. Healthy players don't play in the beginning of the year to get rest isn't a good enough excuse to loose a possible 500 million on a TV contract because coaches want to flex a bit.



On number three above, Ginobli only playing 360 minutes, Wilt Chamberlain could have played nine games and played similar amount of minutes and in half the number of days as Gin, sometimes taking 20 hours to get from one place to another, sleeping in unfit beds, playing in worse conditions and a much faster pace, without masseuses or trainers, while scoring at a sum that would take Manu 50 games to reach and whole years worth of rebounds in those 9 games.
actually, san antonio and the bulls have a much longer continuous road trip every year than every other team due to the rodeo and circus. Maybe hes anticipating that.


Besides, it doesnt matter. Its up to the coach to manage his personal as he sees fit IMO. What if he made them stay and then didnt dress them? Does he still get fined?


SMFH at the spurs getting fined for playing a very competitive game with the defending champions, but stern turns a blind eye to tanking? First recent stern decision I have had issues with.