LeBron has already surpasssed Kobe all-time and at his peak.

[stallionaire]

When will this truth be the general consensus? Just curious.

Kobe has 2 fmvps... LeBron is twice the player (more complete in every aspect) and he is just 1 away from tying him...



What does ISH think? Let's get Tuesday started with this lil nugget of truth.

:kobe:

[ripthekik]

Kevin love sucks, can't play any defense, statpads his way to Wolve's L.
Discuss.

[stallionaire]

Kobe's defense has never been good as LeBron's defensive peak.
Kobe at peak could never be as fast as LeBron right now.
LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and play maker.
LeBron's physique is insane, 260 6'8''

WHY do people think kobe is better?

[christian1923]

lol

[pegasus]

Hope the OP burn in his red bars.

[ripthekik]

Kevin Love got owned by Paul Gasol while playing for Team USA. Everytime he's on the court he's a liability.

Why is it that even though he continues to get 30 points 15 rebounds, the wolves lose? But once Rubio plays, the wolves will start winning.

Also, who is the only player on Team USA 2012 that has never been to the playoffs?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Most people that aren't Laker fans know that Lebron's peak was/is better.

[christian1923]

Kobe's defense has never been good as LeBron's defensive peak.
Kobe at peak could never be as fast as LeBron right now.
LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and play maker.
LeBron's physique is insane, 260 6'8''

WHY do people think kobe is better?
5 championships and 15 years of dominance lol and he's still right there with lebron while being an old man.

[stallionaire]

Kobe fans have no stats or anything to back them up other than the 3 rings shaq got to add up with Kobe giving him 5.

[Foster5k]

LeBron has already surpasssed Kobe all-time
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/Foster5k/Stupid.jpg

OP's mom.

[stallionaire]

5 championships and 15 years of dominance lol and he's still right there with lebron while being an old man.

What I'm saying is LeBron doesn't even need 5 rings. He's better all time than Kobe right now as a player. **** his 15 years of glorified chucking.

[christian1923]

Lebron beats a bunch of 22 year olds and ppl wanna call him better than kobe:lol

[stallionaire]

Lebron beats a bunch of 22 year olds and ppl wanna call him better than kobe:lol

LMAO and you realize those bunch of 22 year olds beat Kobe right?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :lol :oldlol:

lebron would have loved to have met Kobe in the finals. Kobe just couldn't make it.

[jlip]

At what point does one say to himself, "Kobe vs. Lebron has been argued enough. Why would I actually start another thread specifically to discuss this same topic?"

[Rowe]

LMAO and you realize those bunch of 22 year olds beat Kobe right?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :lol :oldlol:

lebron would have loved to have met Kobe in the finals. Kobe just couldn't make it.
:roll: :applause: :applause:

That was the knockout punch.

[christian1923]

LMAO and you realize those bunch of 22 year olds beat Kobe right?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :lol :oldlol:

lebron would have loved to have met Kobe in the finals. Kobe just couldn't make it.
no one is argueing that kobe is better than lebron now.

[stallionaire]

At what point does one say to himself, "Kobe vs. Lebron has been argued enough. Why would I actually start another thread specifically to discuss this same topic?"

I'm truly confused as to why Kobe is higher on all time lists.

Is it because he has 15 years?

Why not get to the point? EVERY gm would draft LeBron at 18 over Kobe at 18. Every single one. Wouldn't this put him higher on all time lists?

[SilkkTheShocker]

5 championships and 15 years of dominance lol and he's still right there with lebron while being an old man.

How is he right threre with LeBron? Sorry, but I don't put too much emphasis on empty stats. Do you believe that if you replaced Kobe with Lebron, they would still have a losing record?

[stallionaire]

no one is argueing that kobe is better than lebron now.

I'm talking on all-time lists.

LeBron is a better basketball player when it all comes down to it. Kobe's peak or not.

[christian1923]

I'm talking on all-time lists.

LeBron is a better basketball player when it all comes down to it. Kobe's peak or not.
Not at all. Kobe at his peak was even more unstoppable. 40 at will. And the way he scored helped you win in the 4th unlike lebrons bulldozer ball. It's a big deal when lebron comes up clutch, ppl go crazy. That was just the regular for kobe. Kobe was breaking spirits out there:bowdown:

[Mr. Jabbar]

:roll:

[Umad101]

Kobe's defense has never been good as LeBron's defensive peak.
Kobe at peak could never be as fast as LeBron right now.
LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and play maker.
LeBron's physique is insane, 260 6'8''

WHY do people think kobe is better?
What you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Anyone who has read is now dumber having read it. I award you no point and my God have mercy on your soul.

[Rojogaqu11]

:facepalm These kids...

Lebron is an amazing player and the best right now, bu c'mon....

how quickly people forget how unreal Kobe was in his prime. At his peak he was virtually unstoppable. To be playing at the level he plays at 34 yrs. old... really puts in perspective the historical player that he has been.

I wanna wait and see how Lebron will be playing 8 years from now because Kobe has basically maintained his production in a similar level over a long career, and most importantly, has won multiple championships while proving himself in different settings against several opponents.

What a silly argument to say that Lebron doesn't need more rings.. it would be like saying Barkley, Ewing, Malone, etc. wouldn't be higher on the all-time lists if they had won multiple championships.

Was Dirk even considered one of the best PF ever before winning his championship? Everyone associated him to choking, softness, first round humiliations, etc. but voila! he won a championship and now everyone appreciates what he accomplished in that year. He became a winner and now people start to see what a great player he has been. The same with Lebron.

Kobe was thought of as high as top 25 player of all time even before his prime, just because of his role in the 3-peat! Then after his prime and his back-to-back championships we can see him as high as 6th-7th all time in many lists.

That's the weight of rings. Lebron was thought of as an empty-stats, no impact choker with a weak mind before he won last year. He had to join 2 other stars to win and now all these kids think that he's on par with Duncan, Shaq, Bird, Magic, etc. (because those are the only players that could be argued above Kobe aside from the obvious like MJ, KAJ, etc.)

Longevity counts. Rings count. The overall body of work has to be measured. Lebron is already an all-time great but stop underrating those others who have done things that he hasn't, just to raise him on the all-time lists.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Kobe should just retire.

[lebeast666]

LeBron and Kobe debate has been settled. We moved on to bigger and better things: LeBrons potential GOAT status :bowdown:

[Droid101]

When will this truth be the general consensus? Just curious.

Kobe has 2 fmvps... LeBron is twice the player (more complete in every aspect) and he is just 1 away from tying him...



What does ISH think? Let's get Tuesday started with this lil nugget of truth.

:kobe:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4083/5055032357_69d1d1be72.jpg

[rodman91]

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Kobe-GIF.gif

:rockon:

[ZaaaaaH]

LMAO and you realize those bunch of 22 year olds beat Kobe right?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :lol :oldlol:

lebron would have loved to have met Kobe in the finals. Kobe just couldn't make it.


and you also know Kobe was 32 right with 16 years of NBA Ball :facepalm




COME ON MAN ~

[ZaaaaaH]

Kobe's defense has never been good as LeBron's defensive peak.
Kobe at peak could never be as fast as LeBron right now.
LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and play maker.
LeBron's physique is insane, 260 6'8''

WHY do people think kobe is better?


So LeBron is better then Jordan,Bird,Magic now?

COME ON MAN ~

[scm5]

As a Kobe fan, I appreciate him for his skill that he has accumulated over the years. He is pretty much the ultimate ambassador for hard work and mental toughness. Why not Jordan? Because unlike Jordan, Kobe was never considered an athletic freak, even in his prime. Kobe was never the fastest or highest flying player in the league. He couldn't hang with Jordan or barrel through defenses like a freight train like Lebron. Don't get me wrong, Kobe is by every measure, an extremely athletic person. By NBA standards, he's above average.

There are many reasons why Kobe is above Lebron on the all-time list. Lets start off with the obvious. Kobe has accomplished more in his career than Lebron. Lebron hasn't even won multiple championships, and one thing the Top 10 all have in common are: they've ALL won multiple championships. They have all proven that their championships aren't flukes or won by chance.

While I recognize that Lebron is overall a more efficient player, I don't recognize that it makes him a more winning or championship caliber player. While Lebron will go through a game, seemingly unstoppable because he has a great shot selection and is a willing passer, Kobe takes a much more aggressive approach. You never hear about Kobe shrinking/disappearing in a game, he might choke, but he never stops trying.

Also, look at the history of Kobe's teammates versus Lebron's throughout the years and tell me who gets more out of his teammates. From scrubs like Smush, Kwame, Luke, and Cook to an all-star like Gasol, Kobe has been able to get more out of them than other teams have. Lebron turns everyone around him into role players with his style of play. With the exception of DWade, Lebron hasn't allowed others to play to their own strengths with his style of play. The result? Almost every player of significance has seen reduced numbers playing with Lebron aside from players who are exceptional at playing off the ball (Ray Allen).

I just don't think efficiency from your superstar (perimeter player) is the absolute best way to win. Your franchise player should be the one that takes bail out shots, the one that imposes his talent on the other team by attacking when the team is faltering. Let the rest of the team play more efficient ball. Make it easier for them by being more aggressive. Force them to double you at all times.

[Kurosawa0]

LeBron has not yet surpassed Kobe all-time, but I do agree he's better now than Kobe has ever been. Kobe, at his peak, was one of the top 2 or 3 scorers ever, but we've never seen a LeBron James before.

[asdf1990]

Old news this has been a fact for like 5 years now. Kobe's just more accomplished due to having stacked team for 14 of his 17 seasons. Lebron has had a stacked team for 2 seasons and he has 2 finals appearances and 1 ring in those two years

[LBJ 23]

Lebron turns everyone around him into role players with his style of play. With the exception of DWade, Lebron hasn't allowed others to play to their own strengths with his style of play. The result? Almost every player of significance has seen reduced numbers playing with Lebron aside from players who are exceptional at playing off the ball (Ray Allen).


Soo true. Just look at Mo Wiliams having career years BEFORE playing with Lebron and AFTER Lebron left Cavs. Hell, just look at Cavs team as a whole after Lebron's departure.

:facepalm

[No_Look604]

Kobe sucks....but Lebron haha He's a quitter, phone and he's corny as fcuk.

Give me prime Scottie Pippen and a prime Grant Hill + good front court instead of these Primadonnas.

[DatAsh]

I'm truly confused as to why Kobe is higher on all time lists.

Is it because he has 15 years?

Why not get to the point? EVERY gm would draft LeBron at 18 over Kobe at 18. Every single one. Wouldn't this put him higher on all time lists?

Because longevity matters. Lebron may have a better peak, but most gm's would rather have Kobe for 17 years than Lebron for 10.

[Mr. Jabbar]

EVERY gm would draft LeBron at 18 over Kobe at 18. Every single one.

Yeah, because every GM wants to get back-stabbed on national TV after continous playoff run failures. :oldlol:

[asdf1990]

Yeah, because every GM wants to get back-stabbed on national TV after continous playoff run failures. :oldlol:

cuz every gm wants a player who demands trades if he doesn't have the most stacked team in the nba to carry him to rings

[lilgodfather1]

Because longevity matters. Lebron may have a better peak, but most gm's would rather have Kobe for 17 years than Lebron for 10.
This would be the case if LeBron were to retire after this year, but we have no idea if LeBron will still be playing at this level in 5 years or not, so get that weak stuff outta here.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not yet.

Though, Lebron could very well "surpass" Kobe by season's end.

[DatAsh]

This would be the case if LeBron were to retire after this year, but we have no idea if LeBron will still be playing at this level in 5 years or not, so get that weak stuff outta here.

We don't base all time rankings on what might happen though.

[arifgokcen]

Because longevity matters. Lebron may have a better peak, but most gm's would rather have Kobe for 17 years than Lebron for 10.
Exactly +1111111.

However you didnt complete the sentence just as lebron has just entered his prime so we shall see where he is after he retires.

That said i dont think anyone disagrees that lebron has a higher peak than kobe

[TheMan]

Are the T'Wolves destined to be forever also rans? Really a boring franchise, to say the least...

[lilgodfather1]

We don't base all time rankings on what might happen though.
What you had originally said was LeBron for 10 years... Which means apparently LeBron can't play more than 10 years.

[DatAsh]

What you had originally said was LeBron for 10 years... Which means apparently LeBron can't play more than 10 years.

I never said such a thing.

Lebron has only played 10 years, and we can only rank him as such.

[Ken_Masters]

I agree with the OP. James is better than Bryant ever was and is.

[LeBird]

Because longevity matters. Lebron may have a better peak, but most gm's would rather have Kobe for 17 years than Lebron for 10.

It's unlikely barring a freak accident that Lebron will play less than 15 years. I think most GMs would want Lebron, in that case.

As players; it's not close: Lebron is a better player. When we talk about all-time lists and things like that; people take into account titles won, longevity, etc, and that is where Kobe is ahead. It is mostly a matter of time though before Lebron overtakes Kobe. Kobe really never had a strong argument against the usual GOAT candidates (Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic, etc) but Lebron will if he wins a couple more titles.

[rodman91]

cuz every gm wants a player who demands trades if he doesn't have the most stacked team in the nba to carry him to rings

Making pressure on GM >>>>> Demanding trade >>>>>>>>>>>>Quitting as a free agent to join personal rival.

[red1]

I agree that lebron has had a more dominant prime but it is equally obvious that kobe has had a better career. First team all nba at the age of 34 is legend status

[BuffaloBill]

Nah. He hasn't. Also, the Wolves suck. OP, that boy be trolling :lol

[Money 23]

Kobe has dat longevity
LeBron's peak is better (2009, 2010)

[STATUTORY]

Kobe has dat longevity
LeBron's peak is better (2009, 2010)

peak kobe 2005-2008 more impressive than anything lebron's done doe

[tpols]

If Lebron plays in the west he has zero rings.. The heat almost caved to the Pacers for Christ's sake.

The only reason they beat OKC is because they had he maturity factor where Bron wasn't going to lose to an inferior younger up and coming small forward and the heat match up perfectly to defend okcs perimeter offense. They would have lost to the spurs or Grizzlies and probably the clips too.

[guy]

If Lebron plays in the west he has zero rings.. The heat almost caved to the Pacers for Christ's sake.

The only reason they beat OKC is because they had he maturity factor where Bron wasn't going to lose to an inferior younger up and coming small forward and the heat match up perfectly to defend okcs perimeter offense. They would have lost to the spurs or Grizzlies and probably the clips too.

:oldlol: Are you kidding? If that's the case, you could say the same thing about the Lakers almost caving in their championship years against a T-Mac&Yao-less Rockets in 2009 and an even younger more immature Thunder in 2010.

[stevieming]

Kobe's defense has never been good as LeBron's defensive peak.
Kobe at peak could never be as fast as LeBron right now.
LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and play maker.
LeBron's physique is insane, 260 6'8''

WHY do people think kobe is better?

Damn straight.

Lebron was a better player in my eyes years ago....some might argue Kobe is a better closer, etc.....to me that was debatable, maybe mentally Lebron defers a bit too much in the fourth quarter, but all that changed when Lebron went to Boston in the playoffs and played like a true beast, to me I cannot think of a one game where Kobe played like that to starve off elimination. Lebron took the heat on his shoulders and won that game against the celtics.

So now:

Lebron scoring is better than Kobe
Lebron assist is better than Kobe
Lebron defence is better than Kobe.
Lebron takes and makes better basketball decisions than Kobe. (Shot decision.)

It doesn't matter than skill wise Kobe trumps Lebron, what matters is the output. Lebron's output and results outweigh Kobe by a mile now. And don't quote the 30 odd points that Kobe is producing, they are not in the flow of the game and he's hurting his team when he takes that many shots.

[creepingdeath]

When will this truth be the general consensus? Just curious.

Kobe has 2 fmvps... LeBron is twice the player (more complete in every aspect) and he is just 1 away from tying him...



What does ISH think? Let's get Tuesday started with this lil nugget of truth.

:kobe:
http://www.markenting.me/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Thats-Gold-Jerry-Gold-Kenny-Bania-Seinfeld-Quote.gif

[tpols]

:oldlol: Are you kidding? If that's the case, you could say the same thing about the Lakers almost caving in their championship years against a T-Mac&Yao-less Rockets in 2009 and an even younger more immature Thunder in 2010.
I think I've argued this before because I'm getting deja vu. :oldlol: Rockets and thunder>>Pacers. The Pacers are a joke team that would have never even made the playoffs in the west let alone make the second round.

Lebron has had cakewalk in the eastern playoff brackets and it's a large reason for why he has a ring now although he would have one anyway if not for 2011's chokejob.

Instead of playing the Grizzlies or clips or spurs or mavs he gets to play the Knicks sixers hawks Pacers.. It's a joke comparison. In the end? Yea he'll play La or OKC.. But La and OKC had to go through legit stacked squads while Miami faced teams that prolly wouldn't even be in the playoffs in the west or at best first round exits. It's just the truth.

[SilkkTheShocker]

cuz every gm wants a player who demands trades if he doesn't have the most stacked team in the nba to carry him to rings


Hahahahah owned :oldlol:

[DaSeba5]

Making pressure on GM >>>>> Demanding trade >>>>>>>>>>>>Quitting as a free agent to join personal rival.

Rival? LeBron and Wade never played each other in the playoffs and were always friends. It wasn't Magic joining Bird.

[Cali Syndicate]

LMAO and you realize those bunch of 22 year olds beat Kobe right?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :lol :oldlol:

lebron would have loved to have met Kobe in the finals. Kobe just couldn't make it.

Pretty sure Kobe wasn't in his prime nor his peak last season.

[SilkkTheShocker]

peak kobe 2005-2008 more impressive than anything lebron's done doe


Yea, it was amazing watching him lose in the 1st round of the playoffs. :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

When will this truth be the general consensus? Just curious.

Kobe has 2 fmvps... LeBron is twice the player (more complete in every aspect) and he is just 1 away from tying him...



What does ISH think? Let's get Tuesday started with this lil nugget of truth.

:kobe:

**** off.

[Nick Young]

1 ring vs 5 rings

Lebron has a ways to go

[Heavincent]

how quickly people forget how unreal Kobe was in his prime. At his peak he was virtually unstoppable. To be playing at the level he plays at 34 yrs. old... really puts in perspective the historical player that he has been.


This. People on ISH constantly underrate how dominant and unstoppable Kobe was at his best. He would literally average 40 points a game in some months. That's ****ing insane. He was putting up scoring numbers that you just don't see these days. 81, 65, 62 in 3 quarters, and a shitload of 50+ point games. When's the last time someone dropped 60? Pretty sure it was Kobe a few years ago at MSG. Nobody else has done it since.

It's not like he was just a scorer either. He led his team in assists and got 5 rebounds a game, which ranked in the top 3 among SG's.

[STATUTORY]

This. People on ISH constantly underrate how dominant and unstoppable Kobe was at his best. He would literally average 40 points a game in some months. That's ****ing insane. He was putting up scoring numbers that you just don't see these days. 81, 65, 62 in 3 quarters, and a shitload of 50+ point games. When's the last time someone dropped 60? Pretty sure it was Kobe a few years ago at MSG. Nobody else has done it since.

It's not like he was just a scorer either. He led his team in assists and got 5 rebounds a game, which ranked in the top 3 among SG's.

guy scored 40+ points in 6 or 7 game straight and we comparing him to no iso moves lebron :facepalm

[And 1]

An argument can be made for a better peak.
But to compare their careers at this point is both unfair and redundant.

[DaSeba5]

guy scored 40+ points in 6 or 7 game straight and we comparing him to no iso moves lebron :facepalm

A... Wade stan? :eek:

[Timmy D for MVP]

Why does no one say that?

Because one guy is only half way through his career.

I agree with you that eventually Lebron will surpass Kobe, and everyone else from his era too if he wins a couple more titles.

But as of right now, no. Lets wait till he's nearing the end of his career.

[funnystuff]

This. People on ISH constantly underrate how dominant and unstoppable Kobe was at his best. He would literally average 40 points a game in some months. That's ****ing insane. He was putting up scoring numbers that you just don't see these days. 81, 65, 62 in 3 quarters, and a shitload of 50+ point games. When's the last time someone dropped 60? Pretty sure it was Kobe a few years ago at MSG. Nobody else has done it since.

It's not like he was just a scorer either. He led his team in assists and got 5 rebounds a game, which ranked in the top 3 among SG's.
If Lebron shot as much as Kobe did during those games, he would have those kind of games.

But fortunately for Kobe stans, Lebron is an unselfish player.

[upside24]

An argument can be made for a better peak.
But to compare their careers at this point is both unfair and redundant.
Good post.

There is a legitimate discussion as to who had the better peak and this is coming from a Kobe fan.

LeBron is a truly amazing player and I'm glad that I was lucky enough to watch both him and Kobe and have Durant's evolution to watch as well.

CP3, Kobe, LeBron, Durant. So many amazing talents in the league right now.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Making pressure on GM >>>>> Demanding trade >>>>>>>>>>>>Quitting as a free agent to join personal rival.


Oh yea, I forgot about all those classic playoff battles Wade and Lebron had :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

If Lebron shot as much as Kobe did during those games, he would have those kind of games.


Kobe averages 19.5 shots a game on his career. Lebron averages 20.4. :confusedshrug:

[Nick Young]

Kobe averages 19.5 shots a game on his career. Lebron averages 20.4. :confusedshrug:
:lebronamazed:

[Rubio2Gasol]

01 Kobe > than anything I've seen from Lebron.

But it's debatable I suppose.

[STATUTORY]

Kobe averages 19.5 shots a game on his career. Lebron averages 20.4. :confusedshrug:

also gotta factor in Lebron gets more free throws

lebron stans seem to not realize that FTA also comes from shot attempts

[Boston C's]

I'm truly confused as to why Kobe is higher on all time lists.

Is it because he has 15 years?

Why not get to the point? EVERY gm would draft LeBron at 18 over Kobe at 18. Every single one. Wouldn't this put him higher on all time lists?


this logic makes no sense when ranking an all time list...and lebron right now is definitely not better then kobe career wise...hes a better player at this moment but lebron to me needs at least 3 rings before we start trying to put him above kobe

kobe was a beast in his prime and to me I would take kobes peak over lebrons peak...he was just that good

[DatAsh]

Kobe averages 19.5 shots a game on his career. Lebron averages 20.4. :confusedshrug:

Posting misleading statistics doesn't make your argument stronger.

[DatAsh]

It's unlikely barring a freak accident that Lebron will play less than 15 years. I think most GMs would want Lebron, in that case.

As players; it's not close: Lebron is a better player. When we talk about all-time lists and things like that; people take into account titles won, longevity, etc, and that is where Kobe is ahead. It is mostly a matter of time though before Lebron overtakes Kobe. Kobe really never had a strong argument against the usual GOAT candidates (Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic, etc) but Lebron will if he wins a couple more titles.

You may be right, but in the world of all time rankings, probabilities just don't cut it. I can only rank based on what's actually happened, not what may, or probably will happen, and right now Lebron doesn't deserve to be ranked above someone who's been 95% as effective as he has for 70% longer. It's just the way I see it.

[tmacattack33]

Peak?...Yes.

All-time? ...No way, not yet.

[rodman91]

Rival? LeBron and Wade never played each other in the playoffs and were always friends. It wasn't Magic joining Bird.

Of course they couldn't because they joined eachother in their prime. They were arguably 2 of best perimeter player in the league.(Even coming from same draft) That makes them rival. It doesn't matter if they are friends in real life.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

The whole "GMs would rather start a team with x guy than y guy so x guy is better" argument really makes no sense at all.

[talkingconch]

Lebron will never be top 7 unless he can win 5-6 rings. Sorry

[And 1]

Lebron will never be GOAT unless he can win 5-6 rings. Sorry

Fixed. He will be MUCH closer to that discussion if he can win 6 rings, while maintaining his current play. :pimp:

[arifgokcen]

Lebron will never be top 7 unless he can win 5-6 rings. Sorry
Dude if lebron wins 5-6 rings that means 5-6 FMVPs and i am pretty sure that would make him #2 or even #1 in some fans list.

Look at top 5
Kareem had 6 but 2 as a top player
Magic had 5 but 3 as a top player
Russell had 11
MJ had 6 as a top player
Wilt had 2
Bird had 3 and 2 as top player
Shaq had 4 but 3 as top player.

If he somehow wins 5-6 rings coupled with 5-6MVPs which is almost guarantee seeing his only competition is durant for the near future,he would definitely be ranked #2.

However that said i dont see him getting that many rings.He will probably get 3 and 5MVPs so he will be ranked anywhere between 3-7 ahead of kobe,duncan,hakeem.However if kobe wins another as a top dog thats another story.Anyway lets wait and see

[BlueandGold]

Honestly speaking if Lebron does win another ring and FMVP he'll be nearly tied with Kobe, Kobe might still have another few notches on Lebron just because of longevity and records (some of which Lebron has opportunities to break) but if Lebron wins another FMVP AND MVP, especially in the same year like last year.. I've got to put him on another level than Kobe, at least peak wise.

Some could argue that Kobe's peak was "wasted" with mediocre teams but so was part of Lebron's peak too. They definitely had different careers but what Lebron did last season was essentially the championship triple-crown of basketball, winning MVP, FMVP and the chip.. only thing missing was an all-star MVP (which is a trivial award, Kobe ironically has the most all-star MVPs)

And for those that know me on here you know this isn't exactly the stance I"ve had the previous couple of seasons. I thought that Lebron would further regress, or that his team play would regress after that finals loss to the Mavs in '11 but he's come back stronger than ever. That takes resilience and he's definitely earned my respect over the past season.. surprising what winning a championship does, especially in the manner that he did. What's also important is that he also "won it his way", even though he did set a precedent by what he did in the free agency season.

[Chrono90]

Kobe was a much better scorer and clutch factor than lebron eer was and will be. I don't know how many of you here even watched Kobe or remembered Kobe during his prime.

Lebron is not a guarantee to perform like this his whole career. Age and injuries can easily stop him.

[kNicKz]

I've seen both of these guys play out their careers and Kobe is without question the greater of the 2. Kobe got the world out of its "I miss jordan" hangover. A true baller, and incredible to watch. He would relentlessly come at the Defense, and never crumbled in the Finals. He never shyed away from a game winner (Which is why his game winning shot % is lower than Lebrons, because you can't miss shots you don't take). There is no shame in being worse than ****ing kobe bryant, everyone calm down, Lebron is still a beast but come on, it's kobe bryant...we can talk about stats all day (which mean less than people here seem to believe) but anyone who watched both of these guys play out their careers in real time would say Kobe, and being top 5 material 17 seasons into your career is very special , we've yet to be able to see how Lebron plays in his mid thirties though

[Chrono90]

I've seen both of these guys play out their careers and Kobe is without question the greater of the 2. Kobe got the world out of its "I miss jordan" hangover. A true baller, and incredible to watch. He would relentlessly come at the Defense, and never crumbled in the Finals. He never shyed away from a game winner (Which is why his game winning shot % is lower than Lebrons, because you can't miss shots you don't take). There is no shame in being worse than ****ing kobe bryant, everyone calm down, Lebron is still a beast but come on, it's kobe bryant...we can talk about stats all day (which mean less than people here seem to believe) but anyone who watched both of these guys play out their careers in real time would say Kobe, and being top 5 material 17 seasons into your career is very special , we've yet to be able to see how Lebron plays in his mid thirties though

Lebron is great but kobes better. Let lebron break one of his fingers and lose athleticism and see if his skills is enough for him to dominate. If he can't run down the court and throw down a hard dunk anymore let's see if his jumper can save his life.

[tpols]

I do think Lebron game is much better suited for today's nba and he nba in general. In the u. S. Basketball is fast paced and very one on one, individual based and since Lebron is basically a 6'8 running back he just has the perfect frame for the style.

His game wouldn't translate as well to euro leagues or any type of basketball that uses zones and a slow pace to deter penetrationand encourage shooting/passing/other fine skills..

You have to remember nba rules in place today aren't meant to give the fairest contest between two teams, but more so to give the most exciting match possible because that =Money.

[AlonzoGOAT]

LeBron better peak, kobe better career although lebron's career/peak isn't even over. Same with kobe and his career.

[Magic 32]

http://www.service-profiles.com/images/mouse-on-wheel.jpg

[FindingTim]

I agree. Kobe's ring advantage is offset by Lebron's MVP's, general dominance, statistical superiority, and sustained peak play.

[RRR3]

Tired subject. We need more Rudy Gay vs. Danny granger debates.

[miggyme1]

Im sick of young dumb punks.how has he surpassed kobe?

Lebron only has one ring.f.u.c.k the mvps.

If lebron has surpassed kobe already that means he will surpass mj aftee this season.lol

Stop livin in the moment

I guess he already better than kareem,magic,wilt,bill russell and he will surpass mj by the end of this season!

Get a fu.c.k.n life bums and stop riding this mans nuts all through south beach and beyond.

I guess kevin durant done surpassed kobe too right?please

And im not a kobe fan but damn i know bball

[ihoopallday]

Honestly speaking if Lebron does win another ring and FMVP he'll be nearly tied with Kobe, Kobe might still have another few notches on Lebron just because of longevity and records (some of which Lebron has opportunities to break) but if Lebron wins another FMVP AND MVP, especially in the same year like last year.. I've got to put him on another level than Kobe, at least peak wise.

Some could argue that Kobe's peak was "wasted" with mediocre teams but so was part of Lebron's peak too. They definitely had different careers but what Lebron did last season was essentially the championship triple-crown of basketball, winning MVP, FMVP and the chip.. only thing missing was an all-star MVP (which is a trivial award, Kobe ironically has the most all-star MVPs)

And for those that know me on here you know this isn't exactly the stance I"ve had the previous couple of seasons. I thought that Lebron would further regress, or that his team play would regress after that finals loss to the Mavs in '11 but he's come back stronger than ever. That takes resilience and he's definitely earned my respect over the past season.. surprising what winning a championship does, especially in the manner that he did. What's also important is that he also "won it his way", even though he did set a precedent by what he did in the free agency season.

Great post :applause: This is how non biased fans put things in perspective. Will rep when I can

[The-Legend-24]

Kobe's Peak - Carrying scrubs to the playoffs, beating teams single-handedly,

LeBron's Peak - Qutting on his team during the playoffs, getting outscored by a bench player in the NBA Finals. :oldlol:

[Money 23]

I do think Lebron game is much better suited for today's nba and he nba in general. In the u. S. Basketball is fast paced and very one on one, individual based and since Lebron is basically a 6'8 running back he just has the perfect frame for the style.

His game wouldn't translate as well to euro leagues or any type of basketball that uses zones and a slow pace to deter penetrationand encourage shooting/passing/other fine skills..

You have to remember nba rules in place today aren't meant to give the fairest contest between two teams, but more so to give the most exciting match possible because that =Money.
LeBron was arguably Team USA's best player in the 2008 Olympics.

And LeBron was certainly Team USA's best player in the 2012 Olympics.

LeBron's doesn't have fine skills such as: passing, shooting, IQ?

[Just2McFly]

Kobe's Peak - Carrying scrubs to the playoffs, beating teams single-handedly,

LeBron's Peak - Qutting on his team during the playoffs, getting outscored by a bench player in the NBA Finals. :oldlol:
tell me everything you've done in life so that i can do the opposite.

[Kews1]

LMAO and you realize those bunch of 22 year olds beat Kobe right?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :lol :oldlol:

lebron would have loved to have met Kobe in the finals. Kobe just couldn't make it.

:bowdown: BOOM

[tpols]

LeBron was arguably Team USA's best player in the 2008 Olympics.

And LeBron was certainly Team USA's best player in the 2012 Olympics.

LeBron's doesn't have fine skills such as: passing, shooting, IQ?
The USA doesn't play like a seasoned euro team where all the players know each other and have been playing for years together.. It's really just a dream team where individual superstars take turns at dominating with talent.

Lebron got the passing and vision but he doesn't have any off the ball skills, his shot is dependant on people respecting his drive and giving him space, and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective at least to a larger extent than kobe. Kobe has a more traditional fine tuned game where Bron has the unreal athleticism and driving ability.

[LeBird]

You may be right, but in the world of all time rankings, probabilities just don't cut it. I can only rank based on what's actually happened, not what may, or probably will happen, and right now Lebron doesn't deserve to be ranked above someone who's been 95% as effective as he has for 70% longer. It's just the way I see it.

I am not disputing that point of view. I am just saying it depends how you weigh your all-time player criteria. For me, longevity, title wins, mvps, etc, only go so far in counterbalancing ability. IMO, if Lebron wins another ring/FMVP and MVP then he is above Kobe. That may be because I personally have Kobe around 10-15 in my all-time list and not higher.

[funnystuff]

Kobe averages 19.5 shots a game on his career. Lebron averages 20.4. :confusedshrug:
Reading problems?

I said DURING those games.

[Heavincent]

Reading problems?

I said DURING those games.

Lebron isn't capable of putting up those scoring numbers. Few players in NBA history are.

[STATUTORY]

Lebron might not even be as good as Kobe is right now

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe's Peak - Carrying scrubs to the playoffs, beating teams single-handedly,

LeBron's Peak - Qutting on his team during the playoffs, getting outscored by a bench player in the NBA Finals. :oldlol:
Lebron never missed the playoffs in his prime. And Kobe quit in game 7 in 06.

[Magic 32]

Lebron never missed the playoffs in his prime. And Kobe quit in game 7 in 06.

And Lebron did the same against Celtics and Mavs (and not just for a half).

Is it really necessary to point out how amazingly thin the East was in the last decade?

Lebron's first round opponents rank among the worst teams ever to make to the playoffs.....period.

[funnystuff]

Lebron isn't capable of putting up those scoring numbers. Few players in NBA history are.
Its not that he isn't capable, he just isn't that selfish.

Truth hurts.

[shawbryant]

The similar debate just like Kobe fans always complimented that Kobe was better than Jordan 10 years ago, now Kobe's getting old, it's time for him to get challenged.:applause:

[G-Funk]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/Qu3en06/lilkobe.jpg

[Micku]

Its not that he isn't capable, he just isn't that selfish.

Truth hurts.

Pretty much. LeBron used to average 31.4 ppg in his third year, and he never average those points again yet he is a much better basketball player now with a better jumpshot and better finisher at the rim. He is like Larry Bird and Magic, who could score more if they want to, but don't because they are unselfish in their play.

Even though Kobe has better offensive skills with his mid range game and post game, but LeBron is more efficient with his. Like LeBron is a much better finisher, and is a bit harder to stop.

Kobe hasn't been better defensively as he was in 2000. His 2007-08 self was a nice balance of scoring and defense. He would take some seasons off and don't play defense consistently but could turn it on when he wants to for a stretch. LeBron started to be great defensively since 08-09. He was consistent great defensively until this year when he is just coasting.

I think the difference is more mind set though. There are times where LeBron just have this weird collapse at times at the 2010 playoffs to the 2011 finals, which was the worst one to me.

[d.bball.guy]

All-time means career wise. LeBron will probably surpass Kobe when it's all said and done. Kobe still holds records that LeBron can break. LeBron can still win more championships, MVPs and other awards. As a Kobe fan, I don't wanna see Kobe be surpassed by another guy but it's probably how it should be. :lol

LeBron's peak is just monstrous, though. His peak>Kobe's. Nuff said