Stern wants penalty for hack-a-Howard?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Saw this in the Celts game...someone is getting powermad.

[Real Men Wear Green]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/06/stern-says-he-would-like-to-eliminate-hack-a-howard-or-anyone/[QUOTE=Stern]

[chips93]

when is he retiring again? feb 2014 right? cant come soon enough. hes had a very rough 12 months

[maybeshewill13]

when is he retiring again? feb 2014 right? cant come soon enough. hes had a very rough 12 months

Amen.

[jchu]

that's just dumb.

learn how to shoot FTs. this stupid league likes to cover up their "superstar's" shortcomings by implementing new rules that are just plain stupid

[Real Men Wear Green]

And the implementation would be horrible. We have games that are already effected by superstar calls. So say James has a game where he gets 20 fts. After your team gets beat by Miami and your starting wings foul out, now Stern is also going to fine you 20K because you fouled one guy too much? Stern needs to calm down.

[Clippersfan86]

First off this should have been removed from the NBA once it started yet now he suddenly cares? Secondly no team in the NBA abused this more than the Spurs last year so lol at them being his example. These very Spurs were hack a shaqing the Clippers for enture quarters with double digit leads.

[tmacattack33]

So...every off the ball foul in the whole game would give a team 2 FT's and the ball?

Or would it have to be deemed "intentional"...that would be hard to prove though.


Either way, it's stupid.

[coin24]

Pathetic.

How about the professional basketball player learns how to shoot a fkn free throw:facepalm :facepalm

[TheCalmInsanity]

This is moronic. You play to a player's weaknesses. So what's next, Stern telling players they can't play off a player and force them to shoot jump shots? No more clogging the paint when someone drives in for a dunk? Good grief this guy is insane

[ILLsmak]

So...every off the ball foul in the whole game would give a team 2 FT's and the ball?

Or would it have to be deemed "intentional"...that would be hard to prove though.


Either way, it's stupid.

The tactic is stupid lol. If it's legit, they should make it so you can do it whenever you want. Then people would start hacking the worst free throw shooter instead of the ball-handler at the end of close games.

But it'd be easy to distinguish between what was an intentional off ball foul and not. And if someone was just being super rough and trying to get a foul call, they could call them for a tech.

Think about it, man, it's not even a real foul. They walk up and hug the guy. LOOK IM FOULING HIM.

-Smak

[AngelEyes]

when is he retiring again? feb 2014 right? cant come soon enough. hes had a very rough 12 months

:applause: he needs to go

[ILLsmak]

This is moronic. You play to a player's weaknesses. So what's next, Stern telling players they can't play off a player and force them to shoot jump shots? No more clogging the paint when someone drives in for a dunk? Good grief this guy is insane

Double post. Well, so they should be able to force someone to take a jumper as in give them the ball and say U MUST SHOOT? The tactic would make sense if the player could say "I'll take it on the side." But that's truly forcing them to shoot FTs when they don't even have the ball. It's nowhere close to the same thing.

-Smak

[daily]

So...every off the ball foul in the whole game would give a team 2 FT's and the ball?

Or would it have to be deemed "intentional"...that would be hard to prove though.


Either way, it's stupid.

the article I read said it would only be intentional fouls. First time down the floor the foul is awarded but the second time when it's clear the team is fouling on purpose it's ruled intentional. Should the player have the ball in his hand when the foul occurs then it's not intentional.

Also not sure if the ESPN article in the OP here mentions it but this wasn't this year the league discussed this it was a couple years ago. Teams were split so it was shelved for the time being

[It's A VC3!!!]

If a coach wants to use the hack a Howard tactic why the **** does stern need to meddle in everything and tell coaches and players what to do. This guy is oozing with authority. Let teams play and stop ruining the league.

[DKLaker]

If a coach wants to use the hack a Howard tactic why the **** does stern need to meddle in everything and tell coaches and players what to do. This guy is oozing with authority. Let teams play and stop ruining the league.

Nobody wants to pay money...or even watch a basketball game if all they are doing is hacking and shooting free throws. They should have stopped this when Shaq was playing. The hack a whoever ruins the game and the NBA brand.

But.......

YES, Dwight needs to learn to shoot fcking free throws like a real NBA player....even if he has to shoot them Rick Barry underhand Granny style :oldlol:

And, YES, I too cannot wait for that pompous @ss Stern to retire and rot in hell.

[KeyNote]

Everything is geared towards helping the offense because that's what fans want to see

I wish he'd emphasize the palming/discontinued dribble rule more or outlaw the euro-step that gives the dribbler a ridiculous advantage

but fans love points and nonstop action so stern no curr

[AirTupac]

On one hand, I think this should have been done a long time ago since it ruins the flow of the game.

But on the other hand, its a free throw, the players should fvcking learn how to shoot them and the opposing team won't be able to use the strategy.

[Droid101]

Unless the player shoots worse than like, 36% on foul shots, doing this strategy the entire game would result in the most high-powered offense in the history of the NBA. Seriously.


Dwight Howard is a career 59.5 percent foul shooter and has done slightly better than that each of the past three seasons. But let's take 59.5 percent as his chances of converting any given free throw. Sending him to the line for two shots produces an expected return of 1.19 points from the foul shots, a scoring rate better than that of any offensive team in the history of basketball. Just sending him to the line time after time is one of the worst percentage moves a team could possibly make.

It gets worse, though. Howard will miss 40.5 percent of those foul shots, and 20.25 percent of those misses will be on the back end of the pair. It's nice to assume that all 20.25 percent will end up with the defense, but it's also unrealistic. The offense rebounds about 1 in 10 missed free throws, and that mark tends to go up for a bad foul shooter. Simple observation backs up this point -- offensive players waste little effort pushing for position when Chauncey Billups is at the stripe, but they fight like mad when Andris Biedrins steps up.

But let's say 1 in 10 of those boards goes back to Orlando, giving the Magic a new possession. That means 2.025 percent of Howard's misses still generate points; assume league-average efficiency on the new trip and that's another .021 points for the offense.

So now you're giving up an average of 1.211 points -- a breathtaking offensive efficiency level -- for the privilege of piling up fouls on your players. That's compared with a normal offensive season, but remember, too, that this year has been anything but normal. Offensive efficiency is down across the league, as noted below, so the points surrendered by this strategy are even more than normal.
Edit, sorry I was wrong, 48% is the break even point.


Once you factor in offensive rebounding, the break-even point for this strategy in the 2011-12 season is about 48.5 percent -- slightly less for a team with a rebounding disadvantage, slightly more for one with a rebounding advantage. And that doesn't include the attrition factor from having players accumulate fouls.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PERDiem-120113/nba-dwight-howard-foul-strategy?refresh=true&refresh=true

[AngelEyes]

Stern has done a lot of good in the game, mostly in the 80's and 90's, but he is rapidly tainting his name and his legacy as one of sports' best commissioners. In his old age he's become bizarre and power hungry. It's not a good look and he's not doing the sport any favors.

[outbreak]

Never cared when it happened to shaq and others? Never cared when Dwight was hacked enough to set a free throw record with orlando? Suddenly he has an interest now that his new power team is losing?

[Ol Dirty Bastard]

Just more proof of the power the Lakers have in this league.

This method has been going on for a long time now. Only now it matters because this dream Lakers team are "apparently" losing games due to this. Lakers are losing games due to many other reasons.

You can't change a tactic of the game simply because some players suck at free throws.

[longtime lurker]

Pathetic.

How about the professional basketball player learns how to shoot a fkn free throw:facepalm :facepalm

Crazy isn't it

[mlh1981]

Stern is rapidly going downhill. His retirement cannot come soon enough.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Nobody wants to watch a free throw shooting contest. I'm not against rule changes that promote less stops per se.

[TheCalmInsanity]

Double post. Well, so they should be able to force someone to take a jumper as in give them the ball and say U MUST SHOOT? The tactic would make sense if the player could say "I'll take it on the side." But that's truly forcing them to shoot FTs when they don't even have the ball. It's nowhere close to the same thing.

-Smak

No no, I was saying.. Imagine if Rajon Rondo had the ball on the perimeter. Defenders naturally would force him to shoot by backing WAY off, blocking his path to the basket, and giving him an open shot, hoping he doesn't drive in and create mayhem.

I was saying, with the whole argument that players shouldn't be able to target other players weaknesses and exploit them (a la hack a Howard) they shouldn't be allowed to play to other weaknesses either.

[TheCalmInsanity]

You guys can't tell a coach to not do what will help him win a game- their careers are in the balance, the more games they win the more guaranteed their job will be. Plus, there are easy ways to get around the whole hack a Shaq thing and argue that it wasn't intentional.

Either way, I don't care what you guys want to or don't want to watch. You don't want to watch a free throw contest? Then let Dwight use that as his motivation. That's like saying "I don't want to watch Duncan play, he's boring". Doesn't matter, that's how he plays, he's very fundamental, he wins games, and is probably the best PF of all time because of that. Players and teams are not going to change to styles that will make them lose just because the fans want to see something different.

[D.J.]

If Stern was really concerned about this, he would have nipped this in the bud when it was happening to Shaq 10 years ago. Between this and the Spurs/Popovich situation, he's becoming senile and delusional. He needs to go.

[KOBE143]

Using girly dirty tactic just to win.. Other team goes beyond pathetic.. They know they cant win a fair fight against us so they settle for this kind of play.. :facepalm

[Timmy D for MVP]

So... he wants to eliminate a legitimate strategical idea that would also eliminate some of the importance of one of the most fundamental parts of the game?

If you are a GM, you weight the FT shooting of a player like Howard in your decision. Same thing if you're a coach.

Learn to shoot FT's then. Problem solved.

[bdreason]

You guys realize the NBA already created a rule that makes posting up (5 secs) illegal, right?


I mean, what kind of fukcing retarded rule is that?


Next they are going to make a rule that it's illegal to contest shots in the paint area, because it's reducing the number of entertaining dunks.




Also, as someone stated above, how are they supposed to prove if every off-th-ball foul is intentional? Or are they just going to make overy off-the-ball foul 2 FT's and the ball?!?




The more rules they create, the worse the game gets. Instead of allowing coaches and players to adapt to changing conditions and strategies, they are trying to force a particular style of play, and it's ridiculous.

[Droid101]

Never cared when it happened to shaq and others? Never cared when Dwight was hacked enough to set a free throw record with orlando? Suddenly he has an interest now that his new power team is losing?
His power team? Like how he vetoed the trade that would have given them the best point guard in the league?

**** you and your ****ing bullshit.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You guys realize the NBA already created a rule that makes posting up (5 secs) illegal, right?


I mean, what kind of fukcing retarded rule is that?


Next they are going to make a rule that it's illegal to contest shots in the paint area, because it's reducing the number of entertaining dunks.




Also, as someone stated above, how are they supposed to prove if every off-th-ball foul is intentional? Or are they just going to make overy off-the-ball foul 2 FT's and the ball?!?




The more rules they create, the worse the game gets. Instead of allowing coaches and players to adapt to changing conditions and strategies, they are trying to force a particular style of play, and it's ridiculous.

isn't it also illegAl to iso one guy on one hAlf the court while the other 4 stAnd on the other side?

[unknowns8]

i'm sure the "Hack-a-whomever" tactic was EXACTLY what James Naismith had in mind when he spent all that time inventing the game of basketball in the late 1800's

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

this tactic is unsportsmanlike in it's nature, so why isn't it dealt with by the refs in the same manner ... it doesn't take skill to foul someone who doesn't have the ball and isn't involved in play

it's ruining the game for the casual observer and neutral fans alike

and for those who say "learn to shoot f#$%ing free throws" - :( - i feel for you and your lack of comprehension... do you honestly think hack-a-whomever will stop after Howard hits .600 FT% again? The coach will simply pick the next lowest rung on the oppositions FT% statistical ladder and start hacking them... :rolleyes:

its a ***** tactic adopted by ***** teams who can't play defense like normal mutha fuggahz :rant

[tomtucker]

So...every off the ball foul in the whole game would give a team 2 FT's and the ball?

Or would it have to be deemed "intentional"...that would be hard to prove though.


Either way, it's stupid.

fouls in last 2 minuttes of a game, should give you 2 FT

[bdreason]

i'm sure the "Hack-a-whomever" tactic was EXACTLY what James Naismith had in mind when he spent all that time inventing the game of basketball in the late 1800's

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

this tactic is unsportsmanlike in it's nature, so why isn't it dealt with by the refs in the same manner ... it doesn't take skill to foul someone who doesn't have the ball and isn't involved in play

it's ruining the game for the casual observer and neutral fans alike

and for those who say "learn to shoot f#$%ing free throws" - :( - i feel for you and your lack of comprehension... do you honestly think hack-a-whomever will stop after Howard hits .600 FT% again? The coach will simply pick the next lowest rung on the oppositions FT% statistical ladder and start hacking them... :rolleyes:

its a ***** tactic adopted by ***** teams who can't play defense like normal mutha fuggahz :rant



Actually, any team who would foul someone who can shoot 50%+ from the FT line is only hurting themselves, as the average points per possession across the league barely exceeds 1. There are only two legit starters in the NBA shooting under 50% from the FT line, and that is Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan... coincidently the only two consistent targets of "hack-a-shaq".


So the NBA is going to change the rules to accommodate two players in the league? Or maybe those two players should learn to hit a fukcing FT more than half the time?

[bdreason]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]fouls in last 2 minuttes of a game, should give you 2 FT

[Myth]

If a coach wants to use the hack a Howard tactic why the **** does stern need to meddle in everything and tell coaches and players what to do. This guy is oozing with authority. Let teams play and stop ruining the league.

Next he is going to say that it is not in the spirit of the game to have the league dominated by bigs rather than guards, so he will get rid of hand checking..... oh wait.

[TheCalmInsanity]

Using girly dirty tactic just to win.. Other team goes beyond pathetic.. They know they cant win a fair fight against us so they settle for this kind of play.. :facepalm

Lakers told Kobe to back off like 10 feet away from Rondo in the Finals.. Making Rondo shoot jump shots, which is Rondo's weakness (as free throws are Dwight's weakness). So does that mean the Lakers used a "girly tactic"?

[tomtucker]

That is the current rule.

right, but that is if he is fouled away from the ball right ?.....to cut down on time, do it with the ball carrier too......

[chips93]

I predict a big comeback year for andris biedrins next year :lol

[Purch]

its a ***** tactic adopted by ***** teams who can't play defense like normal mutha fuggahz :rant
So what youre telling me is that those early 2000 spurs teams couldnt play defense? This is why casual opinions cant be taken seriously

[Real Men Wear Green]

i'm sure the "Hack-a-whomever" tactic was EXACTLY what James Naismith had in mind when he spent all that time inventing the game of basketball in the late 1800's
Naismith didn't envision dribbling, dunking, the three-point line and a number of other things that happen on the court. Leave the founding fathers lines for the constitutionalists.

[OldSchoolBBall]

You guys realize the NBA already created a rule that makes posting up (5 secs) illegal, right?


I mean, what kind of fukcing retarded rule is that?

I agree it's dumb, but to clarify, the rule is that a player can't post up for 5+ seconds without doing anything (dribbling, making foot-fakes etc.). The entire post up sequence can obviously take > 5 seconds.

[wakencdukest]

So what youre telling me is that those early 2000 spurs teams couldnt play defense? This is why casual opinions cant be taken seriously


So, answer this: If they were so good defensively, why would they need to resort to the hack a Shaq? The only reason I can think of is that Popovitch was a vindictive asshole who wanted to get back at Phil Jackson for the asterisk comment.

[kNIOKAS]

Stern is out of his mind suggesting of such a rule change. I cannot grasp how somebody could agree with that.

1. Basketball is about shooting the basketball into the basket.
2. Free throws are the penalty to punish the violators of the basketball rules by letting a basketball player of other team to shoot the ball into the basket unguarded.

So Stern wants remove such a penalty because the certain basketball player namely Mr. Dwights Howard dislike getting an open shot from the line???? Now he is actually saying it works against the free throw shooter? GET THE **** OUT OF HERE


http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc489/niokulis/Gorilla_walks_off.gif

[Tmuston Beltics]

Doesn't shock me at all. They are always trying to eliminate flaws that "hurts" the game. If we think clearly, this is a flaw that allows your opponent team to get "free" possessions.

I think it's clever to do this to someone who lacks the ability of good free thow percent, but I think NBA doesn't want that. I guess they want us, the viewers, to see different style of basketball. They want us to see NBA - Where big happens.

If they keep doing this to something that "hurts" the game, soon they will start to give fauls from performing a steal as it hurts the opponent team + isn't that good for a regular basketball viewer as it makes basketball players look bad! Who would want to watch a game where professional players can't even perform something as easy as ball handling! I'm going to switch the channel..

[DStebb716]

Am I the only one that really wants a rule to prevent this? It's an insult to the game, and it drags games on.

[Grey Dawn]

Saw this in the Celts game...someone is getting powermad.

Yep, trying to make up in sanctions what he lacks in height and ***** size.

[Grey Dawn]

Am I the only one that really wants a rule to prevent this? It's an insult to the game, and it drags games on.

Making millions of dollars and not being able to make a free throw is an insult to the game.

[DStebb716]

Making millions of dollars and not being able to make a free throw is an insult to the game.

It's not for lack of trying. He works his ass off trying to do it. It's just not his area of the game.

[FKAri]

Stern is out of his mind suggesting of such a rule change. I cannot grasp how somebody could agree with that.

1. Basketball is about shooting the basketball into the basket.
2. Free throws are the penalty to punish the violators of the basketball rules by letting a basketball player of other team to shoot the ball into the basket unguarded.

So Stern wants remove such a penalty because the certain basketball player namely Mr. Dwights Howard dislike getting an open shot from the line???? Now he is actually saying it works against the free throw shooter? GET THE **** OUT OF HERE


http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc489/niokulis/Gorilla_walks_off.gif

This. LMAO.

[Grey Dawn]

It's not for lack of trying. He works his ass off trying to do it. It's just not his area of the game.

To me he's not really (or not focusing), as with many bad free throw shooters, they lack consistency in their shooting motion, which means inconsistency in their shot.

I do agree that practically it is annoying (and all they have to do is change the fouling a player off the ball rule for the last 2 mins or whatever), however I think it is a bailout for basketball players that can't shoot the ball through the hoop.

[BlueCrayon]

It's not for lack of trying. He works his ass off trying to do it. It's just not his area of the game.

Yeah you're right, an opposing team shouldn't be able to exploit another team's weaknesses.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

So many butt hurt non Laker fans in here. Its as if Stern just announced Kobe's 6th ring.

[wakencdukest]

Making millions of dollars and not being able to make a free throw is an insult to the game.


Not being able to rebound is an insult to the game. not being able to play defense is an insult to the game. Not passing the ball is an insult to the game. Not being able to play without the ball in your hands is an insult to the game. If you're making millions you should have no flaws at all, ever.

[DStebb716]

Yeah you're right, an opposing team shouldn't be able to exploit another team's weaknesses.

You exploit them offensively or defensively. You don't just stop the game in this fashion. If you want to exploit Dwight, make him play on the perimeter. Get him out of the middle of your defense/offense. It's a cheap move.

[BlueCrayon]

You exploit them offensively or defensively. You don't just stop the game in this fashion. If you want to exploit Dwight, make him play on the perimeter. Get him out of the middle of your defense/offense. It's a cheap move.

I really don't see the difference in philosophy between getting him out of the middle and intentionally fouling him to try to limit the Lakers scoring.

[BlueCrayon]

Not being able to rebound is an insult to the game. not being able to play defense is an insult to the game. Not passing the ball is an insult to the game. Not being able to play without the ball in your hands is an insult to the game. If you're making millions you should have no flaws at all, ever.

Yes, basketball players have flaws and almost every team scouts them out and tries to exploit them.

[wakencdukest]

Yes, basketball players have flaws and almost every team scouts them out and tries to exploit them.


I was being sarcastic

[Heavincent]

when is he retiring again? feb 2014 right? cant come soon enough. hes had a very rough 12 months

Silver is gonna be just as bad.

[daily]

Silver is gonna be just as bad.
Of course he will because the commissioner works for the owners. Commisioners only enforce rules the owners want. People complain about Stern but fail to realize it's the owners that put these rules in place. Owners vote on all rules and policies, there's not one rule or policy in place that didn't have the support of ownership

[bdreason]

I agree it's dumb, but to clarify, the rule is that a player can't post up for 5+ seconds without doing anything (dribbling, making foot-fakes etc.). The entire post up sequence can obviously take > 5 seconds.


Actually you're wrong. Even if you're dribbling, you can be penalized for 5 secs back to the basket.

[GabeIsGone]

Lol at hack-a-splitter. As if the fans can't see right through his ploy. The only reason this is coming up is because of Dwight and Stern's favorite team is now affected.

[TheBigVeto]

He knows he's retiring, he can and will do whatever he wants.
Hell, he could've stopped the season next week and just give the title to the Lakers for basketball reasons.

[nosfan1019]

Who thinks Stern is drunk with power?

http://celticshub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/293-gregg-popovich-thumbs-up-300x210.png

[D.J.]

You guys realize the NBA already created a rule that makes posting up (5 secs) illegal, right?


I mean, what kind of fukcing retarded rule is that?


That's the Charles Barkley rule. Like I said before, if Stern was that concerned, he would have done something about it when it was happening to Shaq during the Lakers 3-peat. Funny he had no issue with it when it was happening to Ben Wallace or Andris Biedrins.