Lakers are so much better in the halfcourt, wtf is d'antoni doing running it

[BlueandGold]

Lakers are so much better in the halfcourt, wtf is d'antoni doing running it half the time?

Slowing the game to halfcourt also lets one of the greatest defensive centers ever time to set up in the paint, remember dwight's 9 blocks vs the Lakers frontcourt in the 09 finals?

[BMOGEFan]

D'antoni is an idiot.

Hill is so much better playing next to Dwight, but he barely gives him minutes.

The bench needs so much more scoring as well...so it makes sense to play pau and jamison next to each other.

[BlueandGold]

D'antoni is an idiot.

Hill is so much better playing next to Dwight, but he barely gives him minutes.

The bench needs so much more scoring as well...so it makes sense to play pau and jamison next to each other.
He's an idiot and also hard-headed.. no evolution in his coaching style even after all these years.. you'd think he would have learned some lessons in NYK, it's not like he didn't have the personnel either. Look what woodson is doing with this current group.

[IGOTGAME]

He is a horrible coach. They should have keep Mike Brown. He had a vision for success. Mike has no idea what. He is doing.

[talkingconch]

yeah but once hes setup they foul him immediately and send him to the line

dwight is deadly in transition or when pushing the ball up the floor, something nash will do when he comes back

[BlueandGold]

yeah but once hes setup they foul him immediately and send him to the line

dwight is deadly in transition or when pushing the ball up the floor, something nash will do when he comes back
This is true but they can just do it anyways even in transition. Dwight has to touch it at some point during the transition game, especially on the outlet passes (which is his main responsibility).

Also maybe i'm just a purist or old school fan or w/e but my philosophy is that you let dwight take FTs all day until he actually can hit about 60-70% of them which would make the other team stop fouling. Plus you can only get away with some many fouls, especially during a playoff series.

In the playoffs give me slow grind it all ball with hack a dwight all day vs Mike's run and gun garbage system.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Pretty obvious D'Antoni is an idiot. Dude would rather play Jamison (until Hill starts playing like a monster for a quarter tonight) because he can shoot threes than play Jordan Hill who hustles, rebounds, at least plays some defense.

[poido123]

Get ready for Kome ball in the 4th :lol

[bdreason]

Dantoni, "we just need to get more athletic".

[DKLaker]

Dantoni, "we just need to get more athletic".

My response to him: We just need a real coach!!!!

[BMOGEFan]

Dantoni, "we just need to get more athletic".

He's right...

But anyone can say come up with that conclusion.

[BlueandGold]

He's right...

But anyone can say come up with that conclusion.
No he's not right, he means that his teams need that for his offensive system to work.. the problem is I've never seen a 1-dimensional team only focused on offense win a championship. If anything dominant defenses are much more predictors of contention than even the most potent offenses.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Lakers are so much better in the halfcourt, wtf is d'antoni doing running it half the time?

Slowing the game to halfcourt also lets one of the greatest defensive centers ever time to set up in the paint, remember dwight's 9 blocks vs the Lakers frontcourt in the 09 finals?


During the Mike Brown "era" people were complaining that the Lakers should be running most of the game, quicken the pace, and let the athleticism of Howard off transition and pick and rolls be utilized to maximize his talents. Setting him up in the half court game was not working at the time, it was taking too long in that so called Princeton offense.

What i'm trying to say is, it's becoming more clear to me that this is becoming more a problem of the personnel. I'm not saying D'antoni or Brown are good coaches, but I think the problem is just as much the personnel as the coaches.

[Whoah10115]

It's probably because they're best running it.

[DKLaker]

During the Mike Brown "era" people were complaining that the Lakers should be running most of the game, quicken the pace, and let the athleticism of Howard off transition and pick and rolls be utilized to maximize his talents. Setting him up in the half court game was not working at the time, it was taking too long in that so called Princeton offense.

What i'm trying to say is, it's becoming more clear to me that this is becoming more a problem of the personnel. I'm not saying D'antoni or Brown are good coaches, but I think the problem is just as much the personnel as the coaches.


Both those coaches suck balls!!!!

You cannot win without a good defense and a fluid functioning offense.
Mike Brown was clueless when it came to offense and D'Antoni doesn't want his teams to play defense, he thinks it's a waste of energy.

If they had a coach who knew both offense and defense they would be winning.....heck, Phil Jackson won titles with far less talent.

[BlueandGold]

During the Mike Brown "era" people were complaining that the Lakers should be running most of the game, quicken the pace, and let the athleticism of Howard off transition and pick and rolls be utilized to maximize his talents. Setting him up in the half court game was not working at the time, it was taking too long in that so called Princeton offense.

What i'm trying to say is, it's becoming more clear to me that this is becoming more a problem of the personnel. I'm not saying D'antoni or Brown are good coaches, but I think the problem is just as much the personnel as the coaches.

Uh when did people say that about Brown? If anything people were questioning brown's half-court sets and (playoff) rotations. Also the extent of the "mike brown era" in LA with Dwight was about 5 games.. D'Antoni so far has had more time with this group than Brown. What was taking too long was the hack-a-dwight.

Anybody with even a shred of basketball knowledge knows that a 38 y/o PG, a SG in his 17th season and a 35+ y/o PF in gasol has no business running it up and down half the time. What your referring to is public opinion, I bet half the public doesn't understand what makes water boil.

And as far as personnel you think the Lakers need to acquire more talent than Gasol, Dwight, Nash and Bryant?

[Whoah10115]

The Lakers hired D'Antoni because they believe that up-tempo is the best fit for this team. So why are people upset with him for running when he was brought in to run? Be upset at how he's doing it, not that he is.


What is he supposed to do? Run halfcourt until Nash comes back, despite the fact that Nash and that style has yet to be integrated into the team and they should have the system in place and not try to patch until he gets back?


People are desperate to hang onto preconceived notions.

[BlueandGold]

The Lakers hired D'Antoni because they believe that up-tempo is the best fit for this team. So why are people upset with him for running when he was brought in to run? Be upset at how he's doing it, not that he is.


What is he supposed to do? Run halfcourt until Nash comes back, despite the fact that Nash and that style has yet to be integrated into the team and they should have the system in place and not try to patch until he gets back?


People are desperate to hang onto preconceived notions.
lol @ all of this revisionist history. The conceptual framework of the D'Antoni hire is still fuzzy and there are just as many reports saying that Mike was either hired to spite Phil or as a 2nd option to Phil when Jackson "reportedly" asked for too much.

What he, along with any other coach in the league, is suppose to do is to coach to the personnel of this team. I find it hilarious when there are "fans" who are still complaining about the "lack of personnel" on this team when the Lakers made some of the biggest off-season moves in recent history.

[IamRAMBO24]

lol @ all of this revisionist history. The conceptual framework of the D'Antoni hire is still fuzzy and there are just as many reports saying that Mike was either hired to spite Phil or as a 2nd option to Phil when Jackson "reportedly" asked for too much.

What he, along with any other coach in the league, is suppose to do is to coach to the personnel of this team. I find it hilarious when there are "fans" who are still complaining about the "lack of personnel" on this team when the Lakers made some of the biggest off-season moves in recent history.

My hypothesis is if Kobe can get rid of a coach with a simple death stare, he is probably responsible for decisions of the newly hired coach. It was a choice between Phil or D'antonio.

Phil's offense would of gone through Dwight in the post similar to Shaq and Kobe was after the scoring title set by Kareem, so I'm thinking he passed over Phil in favor of a more open offensive set that will allow him to reach his plateau much quicker right around his retirement.

With the score title and 5 rings, it would of been enough for Kobe to make a case for GOAT since he will accomplished something even Jordan could not do.

Just a guess.

[Doranku]

My hypothesis is if Kobe can get rid of a coach with a simple death stare, he is probably responsible for decisions of the newly hired coach. It was a choice between Phil or D'antonio.

Phil's offense would of gone through Dwight in the post similar to Shaq and Kobe was after the scoring title set by Kareem, so I'm thinking he passed over Phil in favor of a more open offensive set that will allow him to reach his plateau much quicker right around his retirement.

With the score title and 5 rings, it would of been enough for Kobe to make a case for GOAT since he will accomplished something even Jordan could not do.

Just a guess.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DKLaker]

My hypothesis is if Kobe can get rid of a coach with a simple death stare, he is probably responsible for decisions of the newly hired coach. It was a choice between Phil or D'antonio.

Phil's offense would of gone through Dwight in the post similar to Shaq and Kobe was after the scoring title set by Kareem, so I'm thinking he passed over Phil in favor of a more open offensive set that will allow him to reach his plateau much quicker right around his retirement.

With the score title and 5 rings, it would of been enough for Kobe to make a case for GOAT since he will accomplished something even Jordan could not do.

Just a guess.

Wrong. Jimmy Buss is an idiot who thinks anyone can win with All-Stars so why pay huge bucks.....that and Phil is banging his sister :oldlol:

[Reverend Hoops]

A better question would be why would you hire D Antoni to run a halfcourt offense.

[Whoah10115]

lol @ all of this revisionist history. The conceptual framework of the D'Antoni hire is still fuzzy and there are just as many reports saying that Mike was either hired to spite Phil or as a 2nd option to Phil when Jackson "reportedly" asked for too much.

What he, along with any other coach in the league, is suppose to do is to coach to the personnel of this team. I find it hilarious when there are "fans" who are still complaining about the "lack of personnel" on this team when the Lakers made some of the biggest off-season moves in recent history.


Kupchak talked about the pace being too slow BEFORE they hired him. Come on man. If they hired Phil it more than likely would have been at least a slight waste of Nash. There was nothing too fuzzy about his hire. Whether it's Kupchak or Buss or Senior Buss (who most people have suggested it is, despite whining otherwise) the fact is the Lakers hired him and his offense is the reason.


They are suited to uptempo basketball because Steve Nash is on the team and Dwight Howard is well-suited to playing, as well. When Nash comes back, they want to run. It makes sense to run until he gets back, regardless of the results.

[Michael_Wilbon]

Dantoni is a cancer. This team will go as far as Steve Nash leads them. I predict the WCF at best.

[roma_victor]

It looks like Nash will be back in about two weeks.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8735515/report-steve-nash-los-angeles-lakers-says-likely-2-more-weeks

So it looks like he'll be back roughly around the the 27-28 game mark.

Once he's back, what's your prediction for how many games it will take to see what this Lakers' offense is capable of - IMO around 20?

Does that roughly take us to the All-Star break?

[niko]

The Lakers hired D'Antoni because they believe that up-tempo is the best fit for this team. So why are people upset with him for running when he was brought in to run? Be upset at how he's doing it, not that he is.


What is he supposed to do? Run halfcourt until Nash comes back, despite the fact that Nash and that style has yet to be integrated into the team and they should have the system in place and not try to patch until he gets back?


People are desperate to hang onto preconceived notions.

Then they are stupid, because the only way they can play defense is if the game is at a slow pace. And Kobe, Gasol, Metta, Jamison, Nash are all old. Nash is used to the pace but he's out already. This thought the Lakers are going to run up and down like the Suns did is ridiculous, i can see a Knicks situation where his guards (like Chauncey did) decide the pace doesn't work and just walk it up while Mike stands looking frustrated.

[Whoah10115]

Then they are stupid, because the only way they can play defense is if the game is at a slow pace. And Kobe, Gasol, Metta, Jamison, Nash are all old. Nash is used to the pace but he's out already. This thought the Lakers are going to run up and down like the Suns did is ridiculous, i can see a Knicks situation where his guards (like Chauncey did) decide the pace doesn't work and just walk it up while Mike stands looking frustrated.



Being old shouldn't have much to do with it. Kareem was old as hell and those teams were still running. And he wasn't always the trailer.


Karl Malone is the best runner who's ever played and he kept it up all thru his career. He was the first out the gate. I don't see any issue with it. Nash got hurt on a second freak play. It's not an injury with longterm effects. He can run, Dwight can run, Gasol can actually run.


Don't forget that Phoenix made the playoffs with Grant Hill in the starting lineup, and they kept running even after Amare was gone. They played a lot more traditional pick n' roll but the pace of Nash's game was the same.


The last thing LA needs is a halfcourt game where Artest touches the ball. It's horrible. Make him shoot quick and let that be the end of it. Their defense is going to have to get better.

[ZenMaster]

Then they are stupid, because the only way they can play defense is if the game is at a slow pace. And Kobe, Gasol, Metta, Jamison, Nash are all old. Nash is used to the pace but he's out already. This thought the Lakers are going to run up and down like the Suns did is ridiculous, i can see a Knicks situation where his guards (like Chauncey did) decide the pace doesn't work and just walk it up while Mike stands looking frustrated.

Lakers used to play at a slow pace and didn't do so well, transition defense was a big problem then as well.

Lakers problem isn't the pace, it's players missing rotations, failing to match up and lack of communication. Some of the stuff these guys fail to do on defense, like the 1st rotation on a pickn'roll, it's stuff I'd get on the players that I coach and they're only 15 years old. Kobe has been horrible on defense but everybody is chipping in in that regard.

[niko]

Lakers used to play at a slow pace and didn't do so well, transition defense was a big problem then as well.

Lakers problem isn't the pace, it's players missing rotations, failing to match up and lack of communication. Some of the stuff these guys fail to do on defense, like the 1st rotation on a pickn'roll, it's stuff I'd get on the players that I coach and they're only 15 years old. Kobe has been horrible on defense but everybody is chipping in in that regard.

They've been getting killed in transition. ANd none of the problems you addressed are things that D'Antoni will stress fixing, and they actually are exacerbated by the offense he runs.

[talkingconch]

It looks like Nash will be back in about two weeks.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8735515/report-steve-nash-los-angeles-lakers-says-likely-2-more-weeks

So it looks like he'll be back roughly around the the 27-28 game mark.

Once he's back, what's your prediction for how many games it will take to see what this Lakers' offense is capable of - IMO around 20?

Does that roughly take us to the All-Star break?
probably the worst news ive heard all day, day is ruined. thanks

[ZenMaster]

They've been getting killed in transition. ANd none of the problems you addressed are things that D'Antoni will stress fixing, and they actually are exacerbated by the offense he runs.

Point is they where getting killed in transition before as well.

He was pretty upset during many of the defensive mistakes they made the other night vs Utah, I noticed that much.

Mike D'Antoni is the only coach in the NBA who gets 99% of the blame for the defensive mistakes his players make. It can't all be on him, I saw the Lakers make match up mistakes where they just left shooters wide open because they didn't communicate, mistakes that where on a level that I'd get on 15 year old players for making.

[Godzuki]

lol @ all of this revisionist history. The conceptual framework of the D'Antoni hire is still fuzzy and there are just as many reports saying that Mike was either hired to spite Phil or as a 2nd option to Phil when Jackson "reportedly" asked for too much.

What he, along with any other coach in the league, is suppose to do is to coach to the personnel of this team. I find it hilarious when there are "fans" who are still complaining about the "lack of personnel" on this team when the Lakers made some of the biggest off-season moves in recent history.


actually whats hilarious are people acting like the Lakers are good in halfcourt. it makes no sense how every one of you seems to have such a short term memory of the early part of the season where the Lakers looked like the worst and most boring team in the NBA and that was when they had all of their studs....altho i knew there would be a lot of critics of anything that isn't a defense-centric style of play. this place has a lot of conservative inside the box thinkers.

[Godzuki]

Point is they where getting killed in transition before as well.

He was pretty upset during many of the defensive mistakes they made the other night vs Utah, I noticed that much.

Mike D'Antoni is the only coach in the NBA who gets 99% of the blame for the defensive mistakes his players make. It can't all be on him, I saw the Lakers make match up mistakes where they just left shooters wide open because they didn't communicate, mistakes that where on a level that I'd get on 15 year old players for making.


yeah a lot of their screw ups defensively can be blamed on indviduals. i see it all of the time while watching the game and i chuckle to myself knowing a lot of ISH posters will blame it on D Antoni. there are so many variables that aren't even factored into the current equation its amazing how often people keep judging D Antoni as a failure, especially considering how awful they looked pre D Antoni when they were 0-9 and full strength....

[ILLsmak]

This is true but they can just do it anyways even in transition. Dwight has to touch it at some point during the transition game, especially on the outlet passes (which is his main responsibility).

Also maybe i'm just a purist or old school fan or w/e but my philosophy is that you let dwight take FTs all day until he actually can hit about 60-70% of them which would make the other team stop fouling. Plus you can only get away with some many fouls, especially during a playoff series.

In the playoffs give me slow grind it all ball with hack a dwight all day vs Mike's run and gun garbage system.

Hack-a... is a bad strategy to use against a good team. The only time it works is when the teammates of the player missing the FTs get upset. It's more like setting a player up to fail and have their teammates turn on them. If they continue to believe in him and play normal ball, they win. That's why it didn't work vs Shaq in his prime because everyone kept playing their game.

You could tell when Shaq was in Phoenix that it affected his teammates, though. So, yeah, someone needs to tell Dwight just keep shooting FTs... free points, we will take the time and rest.

-Smak

[niko]

Point is they where getting killed in transition before as well.

He was pretty upset during many of the defensive mistakes they made the other night vs Utah, I noticed that much.

Mike D'Antoni is the only coach in the NBA who gets 99% of the blame for the defensive mistakes his players make. It can't all be on him, I saw the Lakers make match up mistakes where they just left shooters wide open because they didn't communicate, mistakes that where on a level that I'd get on 15 year old players for making.
The Knicks never rotated on threes. NEVER. Never got fixed. he got fired, and since then we rotate better on threes. Woodson said his first day it's something i felt we needed to concentrate on. When asked about the same things D'Antoni ALWAYS said "defense is not the problem, offense is".

D'Antoni is not to blame for the Lakers poor defense but someone has to explain to me how he will go about fixing them when he never talks about fixing defense.

[BlueandGold]

So even now given the Lakers transition defense woes why the hell is d'antoni still even trying to remotely run it? When you have a lackluster transition D you want to slow the game to a grind and pound it into your two exceptionally skilled and athletic frontcourt players.. how the hell do you consider yourself an NBA basketball coach and not able to utilize two of the most skilled and talented big men in the league?

[Batz]

During the Mike Brown "era" people were complaining that the Lakers should be running most of the game, quicken the pace, and let the athleticism of Howard off transition and pick and rolls be utilized to maximize his talents. Setting him up in the half court game was not working at the time, it was taking too long in that so called Princeton offense.

What i'm trying to say is, it's becoming more clear to me that this is becoming more a problem of the personnel. I'm not saying D'antoni or Brown are good coaches, but I think the problem is just as much the personnel as the coaches.
What people? What ****ing people actually said that? I want to know, so I can beat the shit out of them.

[ZenMaster]

So even now given the Lakers transition defense woes why the hell is d'antoni still even trying to remotely run it? When you have a lackluster transition D you want to slow the game to a grind and pound it into your two exceptionally skilled and athletic frontcourt players.. how the hell do you consider yourself an NBA basketball coach and not able to utilize two of the most skilled and talented big men in the league?'

The transition defense isn't bad because Lakers would like to run it themselves, it's bad because they play bad in the half court, go back and look at the turnovers, they come mostly in the half court offense.

[BlueandGold]

So yea my position on here has been blatantly clear and that's D'antoni is clearly a huge impediment that is holding back this team. I mean the Lakers went freaking 4-1 under bickerstaff... during that stretch Kobe spoke about how the coaches "shouldn't get in the way" of the players trying to gel together.. D'antoni looks like more of a micromanager(more hands on) than Phil ever was and definitely not a good fit for a veteran team that already knows what its doing.



actually whats hilarious are people acting like the Lakers are good in halfcourt. it makes no sense how every one of you seems to have such a short term memory of the early part of the season where the Lakers looked like the worst and most boring team in the NBA and that was when they had all of their studs....altho i knew there would be a lot of critics of anything that isn't a defense-centric style of play. this place has a lot of conservative inside the box thinkers.


They are two of the best halfcourt players in their position in gasol and bryant. Bryant himself said gasol needed the ball much more on the block/post vs the elbow/pinch-post. Nash also runs half-court/pickandroll sets beautifully and obviously a half-court style would play to the strengths of the greatest C in the league.

I really don't get your point but I'd much rather the Lakers be boring all day long (think spurs 00-07) then to have them have an entertaining(garbage) offensive system that loses in the 1st round.

[Godzuki]

So yea my position on here has been blatantly clear and that's D'antoni is clearly a huge impediment that is holding back this team. I mean the Lakers went freaking 4-1 under bickerstaff... during that stretch Kobe spoke about how the coaches "shouldn't get in the way" of the players trying to gel together.. D'antoni looks like more of a micromanager(more hands on) than Phil ever was and definitely not a good fit for a veteran team that already knows what its doing.



They are two of the best halfcourt players in their position in gasol and bryant. Bryant himself said gasol needed the ball much more on the block/post vs the elbow/pinch-post. Nash also runs half-court/pickandroll sets beautifully and obviously a half-court style would play to the strengths of the greatest C in the league.

I really don't get your point but I'd much rather the Lakers be boring all day long (think spurs 00-07) then to have them have an entertaining(garbage) offensive system that loses in the 1st round.

nash barely even touched the ball when they were running the Princeton thru the post. it made him almost obsolete, and clogged the lanes so much no guard had room to drive, and Dwight was getting collapsed on like crazy every time he touched it. Nash is not going to have the room to do his thing in a halfcourt offense that wants to play post distribution. even when they played post distribution they were turning it over like crazy between all of the random passing from everyone, and then getting killed in transition on those TO's.

Bryant IMO has been much more effective since D Antoni arrived. he's getting much better looks, and more space to drive between. i mean he's had a great year from the start and was still burying shots in the Princeton but the shots he's getting now vs then are much better looks from what i've seen. i swear every shot i remember him taking in their halfcourt slow down play under Mike Brown was with a hand or two hands in his face.

i also think Dwight and Pau are two of the most mobile big men in the league so they'd excel at a faster pace. I think Pau really needs Nash to set him up and without him he's lost out there in a more wide open play.

i think playing a halfcourt style feeding it into Dwight is the same exact thing with Bynum where everyone stood around watching, except Bynum is/was a much better scorer than Dwight is. i just do not believe at all in a halfcourt feed dwight down low basis of offense....its basically the Orlando Magic 2.0 without the shooter role players.

[BlueandGold]

/que appropriate bump

First couple of shots last night involved Gasol spotting up from 3.. NoD'antoni has successfully transformed the most polished offensive big man in the game into a spot up shooter. gj

[shadow]

/que appropriate bump

First couple of shots last night involved Gasol spotting up from 3.. NoD'antoni has successfully transformed the most polished offensive big man in the game into a spot up shooter. gj
And also a fantastic scapegoat which is amazing considering he's playing next to a C, PG and SG, each of whom is supposed to be top3-5 at their respective positions.

[Mrofir]

I really wish they'd have just hired PJ already so we could see him fail. PJ is smart enough to realize he dodged a bullet, though I'm sure he still feels he could be doing better. This is not a coaching thing anymore. Mike D'antoni went to 3 WCFs, has had some great successes as a coach. He's just an easy target.

[Derka]

Might have something to do with Mike D'Antoni not being all that good of a coach.

[The-Legend-24]

The dude is just plain retarted, this is the same guy that had a losing record with Melo and Amare, there's reason why he was unemployed, I'm still baffled that they hired this idiot instead of Phil.

:facepalm