Are people ready to label the Knicks as contenders?

[All Net]

15-5 record, destroyed the champs twice, won in San Antonio, 8-0 at home all without Amare and Shumpert along with having guys in and out of their line-up. Are you waiting to see how they perform when Amare returns or are they legit contenders? their depth is easily one of the best in the league right now. Is it fair to put them along with Heat, Thunder, Spurs,Grizzles as main contenders for the title?

[TheBigVeto]

Yes of course. As long as Amare doesn't come back they're a legit contender.

[SevereUpInHere]

15-5 record, destroyed the champs twice, won in San Antonio, 8-0 at home all without Amare and Shumpert along with having guys in and out of their line-up. Are you waiting to see how they perform when Amare returns or are they legit contenders? their depth is easily one of the best in the league right now. Is it fair to put them along with Heat, Thunder, Spurs,Grizzles as main contenders for the title?

I'm not scared of anyone in the East apart from Miami and even then we've had their number big time so far this season. ECF at the least, if getting to the conference finals counts as being a contender, then I think we are. We're a chance to win a 7 game series against Miami based on play for both teams so far this season.

[LockoutOver11]

Yes of course. As long as Amare doesn't come back they're a legit contender.

lol..


on the real, kidd and sheed will bust these young ****** asses

[chazzy]

Still have to see how Amare is implemented. Shumpert will definitely be a boost. The Felton and Kidd pickups were good and they've turned around their biggest weakness from last year. Their elite defense has slipped a bit though. Wouldn't be too shocked if they had a 2011 Dallas or 09 Orlando type series against the Heat, especially with how the Heat's defense has looked so far.

[Pushxx]

They are contenders but Amar'e is the odd man out.

He's an offense-only player on a team that already has an amazing offense. He will only make that team worse.

Not to mention Amar'e and Melo have never...ever...played well together...Knicks need to hire someone to keep him injured.

[bmulls]

Yes, and it's pretty crazy to think what kind of role players they could have spent Amare's salary on instead

[francesco totti]

It will be celtics vs heat conference finals again, unless both sides meet beforehand.

Knicks can finish with best record in east this year tho.Much like the bulls did last 2 years, and cleveland in lebron days.

[alwaysunny]

They are contenders but Amar'e is the odd man out.

He's an offense-only player on a team that already has an amazing offense. He will only make that team worse.

Not to mention Amar'e and Melo have never...ever...played well together...Knicks need to hire someone to keep him injured.

What the hell is this supposed to mean?

[TheMarkMadsen]

i predicted them to finish 2nd in the east this season and make the ECF. I may have underestimated them

[Nash]

Just this years version of the the last few years Chicago Bulls or Cleveland Cavaliers.

[MichaelCheazley]

They are contenders but Amar'e is the odd man out.

He's an offense-only player on a team that already has an amazing offense. He will only make that team worse.

Not to mention Amar'e and Melo have never...ever...played well together...Knicks need to hire someone to keep him injured.
"Hola, se

[Sarcastic]

Amar'e has been a huge part of teams that won 60 games. Why would he be a detriment to winning?

The only reason that he and Melo didn't work before was due to Mike D'Antoni, and I think now seeing what he's doing in LA, really proves how clueless he is as a coach.

[Scoooter]

Amar'e has been a huge part of teams that won 60 games. Why would he be a detriment to winning?

The only reason that he and Melo didn't work before was due to Mike D'Antoni, and I think now seeing what he's doing in LA, really proves how clueless he is as a coach.
So has Mike D'antoni...

[Patrick Chewing]

No, they need to beat Miami 47 more times before they can be considered.

[SHEED_ gangsta]

It's a long season...

[Darius]

[QUOTE=MichaelCheazley]"Hola, se

[Halipender]

No, they are pretenders

[niko]

Not yet. But we are moving in that direction which is positive.

[nycelt84]

Yes I don't see how they're not.

[Nero Tulip]

No. From what I've seen they're just not that good. They ve just been shooting great, making contested 3s, but that won't work consistently. They're in the second tier of teams, after Miami, SA, OKC, Memphis... They don't have a real shot at the title.

[Sarcastic]

No. From what I've seen they're just not that good. They ve just been shooting great, making contested 3s, but that won't work consistently. They're in the second tier of teams, after Miami, SA, OKC, Memphis... They don't have a real shot at the title.


At least they were good enough to beat the Spurs in San Antonio. :rockon:

[SevereUpInHere]

No. From what I've seen they're just not that good. They ve just been shooting great, making contested 3s, but that won't work consistently. They're in the second tier of teams, after Miami, SA, OKC, Memphis... They don't have a real shot at the title.


You haven't seen us then, we don't take many contested 3s at all, generally the 3s are wide open due to ball movement, melo double/triple teams or Felton penetrating. We're not even hitting 3s at a high percentage.

But agreed we're in the 2nd tier, but not far behind.

[niko]

No. From what I've seen they're just not that good. They ve just been shooting great, making contested 3s, but that won't work consistently. They're in the second tier of teams, after Miami, SA, OKC, Memphis... They don't have a real shot at the title.

That's just totally false. We rarely shoot any contested threes. And when the **** did SA move up to the tier with Miami and OKC? You had your chance at OKC and as soon as they pushed back you completely collapsed. That ship sailed.

[All Net]

No. From what I've seen they're just not that good. They ve just been shooting great, making contested 3s, but that won't work consistently. They're in the second tier of teams, after Miami, SA, OKC, Memphis... They don't have a real shot at the title.

This post makes me think you haven't watched many Knicks games at all.

[Nero Tulip]

At least they were good enough to beat the Spurs in San Antonio. :rockon:

Exactly, I agree, they are good enough. A good team (which NY is) can beat a great team.

This, and the second game against Miami, was a good example of NY beating a better team. Basketball is like that. Sometimes you just have great shooting nights.


You haven't seen us then, we don't take many contested 3s at all, generally the 3s are wide open due to ball movement, melo double/triple teams or Felton penetrating. We're not even hitting 3s at a high percentage.

But agreed we're in the 2nd tier, but not far behind.

Felton takes a lot of stupid shots that just go in. You're not hitting 3s at a high percentage because you don't take good shots, because you're not a very good team.


That's just totally false. We rarely shoot any contested threes. And when the **** did SA move up to the tier with Miami and OKC? You had your chance at OKC and as soon as they pushed back you completely collapsed. That ship sailed.

Way to lose all credibility. They're looking like the favourite to win it all right now, with Miami and OKC looking weaker and LA being a joke.


This post makes me think you haven't watched many Knicks games at all.

Watched the SA game, both Miami games, and yesterday's game (they looked awful)... probably more that I'm forgetting.
Edit: yes vs BKN too.

[niko]

Exactly, I agree, they are good enough. A good team (which NY is) can beat a great team.

This, and the second game against Miami, was a good example of NY beating a better team. Basketball is like that. Sometimes you just have great shooting nights.



Felton takes a lot of stupid shots that just go in. You're not hitting 3s at a high percentage because you don't take good shots, because you're not a very good team.



Way to lose all credibility. They're looking like the favourite to win it all right now, with Miami and OKC looking weaker and LA being a joke.



Watched the SA game, both Miami games, and yesterday's game (they looked awful)... probably more that I'm forgetting.
Edit: yes vs BKN too.

The Knicks don't take a lot of contested threes. That's just false. You're making shit up. And SA fans have been telling me since the last title year after year YOU'RE STUPID YOURE SLEEPING ON US BLAH BLAH. You are not getting past OKC. You had your chance.

[Nero Tulip]

The Knicks don't take a lot of contested threes. That's just false. You're making shit up. And SA fans have been telling me since the last title year after year YOU'RE STUPID YOURE SLEEPING ON US BLAH BLAH. You are not getting past OKC. You had your chance.

Yes, we had our chance... a lot of years. And we won 4 of those years. SA fans know better than NY fans what being a contender means...

In any case it's not really an opinion, it's as close to a fact as it gets. If you don't think SA is in the first tier you're an idiot. If you think the NYK are better than SA you're an idiot. The Knicks would probably agree, too. What they're doing is impressive, give them a year or two and they could be good (although I wouldn't bet on them), but right now they're just not THAT good.

[Sarcastic]

Knicks aren't even a finished product yet. 40% of the starters are still out.

Popovich gave them all the praise in the world. I think he knows a little more than Mr Twolips over here.

[Purch]

I'm not ready to do that yet... however, I'm ready to claim them as the best team in the Atlantic.

[Rolando]

The Knicks are definitely contenders. As a Celts fan, I take them seriously. I think Melo has got his shit together this year and he is dangerous. Amar'e seems to be getting his head right too. Having him come off the bench will be nasty.

[nathanjizzle]

they lost to the bulls:roll:

[Shepseskaf]

Of course, they're contenders. They have the best record in the East and have beaten the "team to beat" in the conference twice.

I thought they would be in the second tier of contenders for the East before the season started, but that appears to be selling them short.

[niko]

Yes, we had our chance... a lot of years. And we won 4 of those years. SA fans know better than NY fans what being a contender means...

In any case it's not really an opinion, it's as close to a fact as it gets. If you don't think SA is in the first tier you're an idiot. If you think the NYK are better than SA you're an idiot. The Knicks would probably agree, too. What they're doing is impressive, give them a year or two and they could be good (although I wouldn't bet on them), but right now they're just not THAT good.
I don't think we are better. But we don't have OKC to go by and your team is old, and we play better defense than you. 100%. We are the same level contender as you. We have a team in front of us we probably can't get by. What is the difference?

Past titles don't make you a stronger contender now. Those SA teams played defense and a style that thrived in the playoffs. Your current team does not.

The difference between me and you is i've seen your team play and apparently you've not watched the Knicks at all.

[It's A VC3!!!]

No way. Not even a playoff team. Amare will come back and the Knicks will lose 10 in a row.:oldlol:

The regular season success is great but playoff time is a different animal. Ask me after a few playoff games or maybe a series. They are no fluke and can beat any team on any given night, just like the Nets. Honestly, I have the Nets and Knicks meeting in the ECF.

[Clutch]

No way. Not even a playoff team. Amare will come back and the Knicks will lose 10 in a row.:oldlol:

The regular season success is great but playoff time is a different animal. Ask me after a few playoff games or maybe a series. They are no fluke and can beat any team on any given night, just like the Nets. Honestly, I have the Nets and Knicks meeting in the ECF.
Who will knock out the Heat ?

[It's A VC3!!!]

Who will knock out the Heat ?

Nets Celtics, or Knicks. Heat admitted that they don't have the same motivation as last year and it's showing. They could easily be at .500 if i wasn't for late game heroics from Ray and others. As a Nets fan, I am not intimidated whatsoever by the Heat. Nor are the Nets players themselves. They are worse than last year.

[Apogee]

they lost to the bulls:roll:

You are literally one of the worst fans I have ever seen. :facepalm

[airchibundo507]

I don't think we are better. But we don't have OKC to go by and your team is old, and we play better defense than you. 100%. We are the same level contender as you. We have a team in front of us we probably can't get by. What is the difference?

Past titles don't make you a stronger contender now. Those SA teams played defense and a style that thrived in the playoffs. Your current team does not.

The difference between me and you is i've seen your team play and apparently you've not watched the Knicks at all.

San Antonio is more disciplined and proven. Their offensive system and great passing/ball movement generates good looks on its own, rather than our team which heavily relies on JR and Felton (even Melo at times) hoisting up bad shots. For that reason they are better able to handle injuries to important players.

Right now San Antonio is a better team. If I had to rank the best teams in tiers:

Thunder
Spurs

Memphis (I felt like they were overachieving to start the season)
Knicks
Miami (until they return to championship form)

Clippers
Hawks
Brooklyn (when Lopez comes back healthy)
Denver (when they start playing some home games)

But of course the Knicks will get back Shumpert and Amare. At the very worst, the Knicks will remain at the same level with Amare playing. His defensive woes will be nullified by him taking shots away from Felton and JR. But if he buys into our defense (as he did last year) and he gets back his automatic 15-18 foot jumpshot, the Knicks will be in the conversation for the best team in the league. If that's the case, I think the Knicks win the East.

[Purch]

Brooklyn isn't on the same level as Ny at this moment and I doubt they will be at any point in the season.

In the group of pre contenders (Made that up to describe the teams the look strong now, but might look vulnerable as the season goes on) Memphis/Lac/NY

I think Memphis is the closest to being able to win a title

[guy]

They are contenders in the sense that they have the potential to beat any team in the league in a 7 game series, doesn't necessarily mean that they will. There's 3 huge factors in IMO:

Shooting: They definitely won't shoot this well all season. But in a series against other contenders, they definitely have the potential to shoot lights out and they would be very hard to beat in that case.

Health of their veterans: Obviously losing Melo would make it impossible, but we can assume thats not the case. However, Kidd, Sheed, Kurt, and Camby are old as hell and Chandler is somewhat injury prone. There's a very good chance come playoff time that some of those guys will be out. If Chandler, Kidd, and/or Sheed to a lesser extent are out, that will definitely hurt them alot.

Amare: If they decide to start him, he could definitely screw them up. If he plays 20-25 min instead and buys into his role and doesn't stagnate the offense, they would be very hard to beat.

[Nero Tulip]

Knicks aren't even a finished product yet. 40% of the starters are still out.

Popovich gave them all the praise in the world. I think he knows a little more than Mr Twolips over here.

Yeah, Popovich giving praises to an opponent, that never happens :rolleyes:

He praised bad teams and good teams you know... he's known to do this all the time.


I don't think we are better. But we don't have OKC to go by and your team is old, and we play better defense than you. 100%. We are the same level contender as you. We have a team in front of us we probably can't get by. What is the difference?

Past titles don't make you a stronger contender now. Those SA teams played defense and a style that thrived in the playoffs. Your current team does not.

The difference between me and you is i've seen your team play and apparently you've not watched the Knicks at all.

:facepalm

Except that... you know, SA actually has a better defense than NY by any measure, and is in the top 5 of the league in defense (despite playing stronger teams than NY, I think...)

Keep embarrassing yourself, it's entertaining.

[Nero Tulip]

They are contenders in the sense that they have the potential to beat any team in the league in a 7 game series, doesn't necessarily mean that they will. There's 3 huge factors in IMO:

Shooting: They definitely won't shoot this well all season. But in a series against other contenders, they definitely have the potential to shoot lights out and they would be very hard to beat in that case.

Health of their veterans: Obviously losing Melo would make it impossible, but we can assume thats not the case. However, Kidd, Sheed, Kurt, and Camby are old as hell and Chandler is somewhat injury prone. There's a very good chance come playoff time that some of those guys will be out. If Chandler, Kidd, and/or Sheed to a lesser extent are out, that will definitely hurt them alot.

Amare: If they decide to start him, he could definitely screw them up. If he plays 20-25 min instead and buys into his role and doesn't stagnate the offense, they would be very hard to beat.

I agree. They could beat a good team if they get lucky, but the odds of them doing it twice is really small. I'm pretty sure everyone in the West will be rooting for them against Miami...

[All Net]

I agree. They could beat a good team if they get lucky, but the odds of them doing it twice is really small. I'm pretty sure everyone in the West will be rooting for them against Miami...

They are as good as any team in the west apart from maybe the Thunder right now. As Memphis have slipped a little. Miami will need to sort out their defensive issues defending the three and hoping Wade starts playing like a star...otherwise a healthly Knicks team could beat them.

Amare is the wildcard. If he knows his role he can be a very dangerous piece. No matter what he can score at will and hit that mid range shot. Playing with somebody like Kidd will help.

[R.I.P]

They are contenders in the sense that they have the potential to beat any team in the league in a 7 game series, doesn't necessarily mean that they will. There's 3 huge factors in IMO:

Shooting: They definitely won't shoot this well all season. But in a series against other contenders, they definitely have the potential to shoot lights out and they would be very hard to beat in that case.

Health of their veterans: Obviously losing Melo would make it impossible, but we can assume thats not the case. However, Kidd, Sheed, Kurt, and Camby are old as hell and Chandler is somewhat injury prone. There's a very good chance come playoff time that some of those guys will be out. If Chandler, Kidd, and/or Sheed to a lesser extent are out, that will definitely hurt them alot.

Amare: If they decide to start him, he could definitely screw them up. If he plays 20-25 min instead and buys into his role and doesn't stagnate the offense, they would be very hard to beat.

You forget the inconsistence of jr and Felton and sometimes Tyson in defense.

[R.I.P]

Yeah, Popovich giving praises to an opponent, that never happens :rolleyes:

He praised bad teams and good teams you know... he's known to do this all the time.



:facepalm

Except that... you know, SA actually has a better defense than NY by any measure, and is in the top 5 of the league in defense (despite playing stronger teams than NY, I think...)

Keep embarrassing yourself, it's entertaining.

I don't think 2 teams can meet up so...ok SA is better.

[R.I.P]

San Antonio is more disciplined and proven. Their offensive system and great passing/ball movement generates good looks on its own, rather than our team which heavily relies on JR and Felton (even Melo at times) hoisting up bad shots. For that reason they are better able to handle injuries to important players.

Right now San Antonio is a better team. If I had to rank the best teams in tiers:

Thunder
Spurs

Memphis (I felt like they were overachieving to start the season)
Knicks
Miami (until they return to championship form)

Clippers
Hawks
Brooklyn (when Lopez comes back healthy)
Denver (when they start playing some home games)

But of course the Knicks will get back Shumpert and Amare. At the very worst, the Knicks will remain at the same level with Amare playing. His defensive woes will be nullified by him taking shots away from Felton and JR. But if he buys into our defense (as he did last year) and he gets back his automatic 15-18 foot jumpshot, the Knicks will be in the conversation for the best team in the league. If that's the case, I think the Knicks win the East.

I take Heat over Spur anyday. And Clippers should be in 2nd tier.

[Noof]

We're not even hitting 3s at a high percentage.

:biggums: You guys are shooting 40.5% from three, good for 3rd in the league.

[bluechox2]

for the last time, if there wasnt an amare first, there is no chance at melo

[KOBE143]

Even tho the Knicks are pretender, they're still better than the cHeat atm just put Amare on the sideline for the rest of the season and that will make them a real contender in the east imo..

[bluechox2]

amare off the bench would give us amazing offense when melo goes to rest

[nbarumorz]

amare off the bench would give us amazing offense when melo goes to rest

And worse defense.

[Clutch]

And worse defense.
Not really. Amare isn't much worse on defense than Sheed is. (assuming he would take his minutes). Especially if he decides to give effort and try.
Sheed is a great post defender but not many players play back to the basket these days. On the other hand he's a terrible defender when someone faces him up because he's so slow. Nene abused him that way and so did other quicker big men.

[Sarcastic]

Yeah, Popovich giving praises to an opponent, that never happens :rolleyes:

He praised bad teams and good teams you know... he's known to do this all the time.





Yea but he doesn't usually say it after said team just whooped his ass, and he threw everything plus the kitchen sink at them, treating the game like it was game 7 of the NBA finals.

[All Net]

amare off the bench would give us amazing offense when melo goes to rest

Will that happen though? Will amare accept this and is that the plan?

[niko]

Will that happen though? Will amare accept this and is that the plan?
He said he would. Not sure how he would complain, Knicks are winning at 75% clip. He'd get skewered if he complained.

[R.I.P]

Knicks' defense down the stretch is just sooooo good. Why can't we practice this the whole game???

[ZenMaster]

They play too good not to be contending at the end I think, if Chandler or Melo goes down they have no shot, everyone else seems able to be compensated for.
They'll probably need a healthy Kidd as well, they have to make sure not to run him down.

[Flash31]

Not until they do something in the playoffs,otherwise theyre like what BOOZER SAID We finished with the best record,won our division,and are num 1 and I played good Thats all that matters

15-5 is still too early to tell,lets see how they play with amare back,melo and amare have not coexisted and meshed and played together well,

amare alone great stats knicks winning,melo same thing,

together a total cluster and mixed results and losing barely sneakin into playoffs

lets see how they adjust by all star break

[2010splash]

Yea right. In 2010 the Celtics owned the Heat in the regular season, won the first 3 meetings (3-1 overall) and got toyed with in the playoffs. Bulls swept the Heat in the regular season and lost in 5 games in the playoffs too.

The Knicks are a joke compared to the Heat. When they're actually trying, Miami can't be stopped.

[Sarcastic]

Not until they do something in the playoffs,otherwise theyre like what BOOZER SAID We finished with the best record,won our division,and are num 1 and I played good Thats all that matters

15-5 is still too early to tell,lets see how they play with amare back,melo and amare have not coexisted and meshed and played together well,

amare alone great stats knicks winning,melo same thing,

together a total cluster and mixed results and losing barely sneakin into playoffs

lets see how they adjust by all star break


Da fuq??? Just about every meaningful player on the Knicks has deep playoff experience. Melo has been to a WCF. Amar'e has been to a WCF. Tyson has a ring (Lebron's). Kidd has a ring, and multiple finals appearances. Rasheed has a ring.

Do you really think these guys don't know how to win, or are you just blindly hating?

[Flash31]

Da fuq??? Just about every meaningful player on the Knicks has deep playoff experience. Melo has been to a WCF. Amar'e has been to a WCF. Tyson has a ring (Lebron's). Kidd has a ring, and multiple finals appearances. Rasheed has a ring.

Do you really think these guys don't know how to win, or are you just blindly hating?



No hate,The knicks have won 1 playoff game with amre and melo
regardless of how theyre playing now,AMARE ISNT BACK YET,and Melo and AMARE havent been playing good together
theyve been doing good with just amre or melo but not together

Reserving judment till Amare gets back and see how they do then,will they coexist and adapt

If theyre still playing good,then props just at the moment they cant be considered LEGITIMATE QUITE YET,wait and see till amare is back,if theyre doing good the PROPS and about damn time NY is a presence and a Legitimate Contender,until then not quite there though good Hot start

[Just2McFly]

Nope...we haven't seen how the react to a slump yet. They look good now,but in order to be a contender you have to show how you bounce back from tough times.

[NYCPG]

LOL at all these butthurt fans now that NY is proving everyone wrong.

First of all at BK fans, your team is a joke. When yall were talking smack a cpl weeks ago, I told you your team ain't shit if Deron Williams is your best player. Must have stung having the OG Jason Kidd hitting that three on you to ice the game after Melo torched yall.

Lakers fans, just please stfu. You lost to Cleveland. Unlike that chucker Kobe, our team actually wins when Melo drops 30. Good luck tryna make the playoffs.

Miami Fans, must be embarassing to lose to us by 20 without Melo Amare and Shumpert. Miami can't compete with the depth we have this season.

Clippers and SA are legit though even though we took out SA already on the road. Knicks will be a top 2 seed in the east. Hopefully BK squeeks in and finishes 8th so we can sweep em easily in the first round.

[Sarcastic]

No hate,The knicks have won 1 playoff game with amre and melo
regardless of how theyre playing now,AMARE ISNT BACK YET,and Melo and AMARE havent been playing good together
theyve been doing good with just amre or melo but not together

Reserving judment till Amare gets back and see how they do then,will they coexist and adapt

If theyre still playing good,then props just at the moment they cant be considered LEGITIMATE QUITE YET,wait and see till amare is back,if theyre doing good the PROPS and about damn time NY is a presence and a Legitimate Contender,until then not quite there though good Hot start


This has nothing to do with this year. The first year was under D'Antoni, who is now the Lakers problem. Last year they were injured and were playing the soon to be champs. This year's team is much different than what you've seen in the past.

[R.I.P]

Some still rather boarding on Laker champ flight than giving Knicks credit. Doubter :lol