Lakers are now 1-9 when Kobe scores 30 or more

[swi7ch]

I'm not saying Kobe should do the extreme opposite and just attempt 5 shots a game. All I'm saying is he should try to involve his teammates more on offense so they don't get disinterested offensively and defensively.

[Rooster]

I watched some of those losses and I dunno why Kobe can't seem to grasp sometimes. You can be agressive but you can't play like you gonna jack it everytime. At some point you have to move the ball around. He should not be leading the league in scoring at this point. Hopefully he does not do this when Nash gets back. He should let Nash just run the team and him picking his spots.

Right now the biggest problem is the defense. Everybody seem to be late on rotating, a lot of miscommunication. They are getting drilled on dribble penetration. Also Kobe need to stay off playing the passing lanes and stay with his man.

[White Mamba]

I'm not saying Kobe should do the extreme opposite and just attempt 5 shots a game. All I'm saying is he should try to involve his teammates more on offense so they don't get disinterested offensively and defensively.

please watch the games.

Lakers shoot 15-28 last night from 3 point, CD had 11 assists at the PG.

@OKC Kobe had 35 points on 50% and 7 assists, still lost.

NO defense.

Kobe's player scored 7 points last night, Utah scored 54 in the paint.

[Whoah10115]

He shouldn't be leading the league in scoring at this point?



The only argument for this argument is if you think fewer shots equates to him playing harder defense. Offensively, he has been terrific. He's moving the ball, helping play point when Morris is on the floor. He's been great. The defense has been bad and his defense hasn't been bad, but it's been subpar.


Dwight Howard has been disappointing...as a defender. His rebounding isn't yet up to his standard (must be because of Gasol) but it's strong and getting stronger. His defense in the paint hasn't happened yet. Even when he turns that on and gets into Dwight mode on defense (he will) he just can't win DPOTY this year...that's how off he's been so far.

[White Mamba]

He shouldn't be leading the league in scoring at this point?



The only argument for this argument is if you think fewer shots equates to him playing harder defense. Offensively, he has been terrific. He's moving the ball, helping play point when Morris is on the floor. He's been great. The defense has been bad and his defense hasn't been bad, but it's been subpar.


Dwight Howard has been disappointing...as a defender. His rebounding isn't yet up to his standard (must be because of Gasol) but it's strong and getting stronger. His defense in the paint hasn't happened yet. Even when he turns that on and gets into Dwight mode on defense (he will) he just can't win DPOTY this year...that's how off he's been so far.

great post.

[Jolokia]

Everything is just for show. They just want the media to see them as the underdogs.

They aint going nowhere in the playoffs though. Thunder or Grizzys >

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LOL! That stat does NOT look good for Kobe zealots. :oldlol:

[francesco totti]

game he scores 30+, ones beside him sucking so bad..that he has to do it.

[chazzy]

LA has the 7th best offense in the league

[konex]

Lakers are also 1-9 when I watch the game on my iphone as opposed to the 360. Both stats have about the same amount of relevance..

[chazzy]

Lakers are also 1-9 when I watch the game on my iphone as opposed to the 360. Both stats have about the same amount of relevance..
No, your stat is far more relevant.. you have real powers. Stop watching games on your damn phone.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Well then the better question would be, why are they only 1-9 when he scores 30+?

[DuMa]

its apparent when he tries to gun more, his defense sucks as a result.

[White Mamba]

its apparent when he tries to gun more, his defense sucks as a result.

Lakers are 70% wining team for his career when he score 30+ or 40+, so the problem is somewhere else.

[swe_suns]

kobe is not the issue...

[DuMa]

Lakers are 70% wining team for his career when he score 30+ or 40+, so the problem is somewhere else.

you can throw those numbers out the window. its a different team this year with many new peices and 2 new coaching systems that theyre going through. 5 rings and history doesnt apply to this current team

[Kblaze8855]

I dont care for these kind of stats. It causes too much assumption that I dont believe is fair. Just because Kobe shoots more when he loses doesnt mean he loses because he shoots more. Kobe is a 17 year vet who has won it all 5 times and been everything from a role player, to one of many stars having to fit in, to the guy leaned on to score 40 a night, to the MVP picking his spots to take over for a team that for the most part would be fine without him.

Hes seen it from every angle. Hes a student of the game. And I feel hes more than earned the right to make the decision on if all the extra work hes put in justifies him shooting instead of passing when he feels things arent going the way they need to be.

Is it a sign of a lack of trust in his teammates? I guess. But hes far from the first star or even the first real top(or near top) tier legend to do it. Some of the most unselfish guys ever would do the same. Bird flat out told Mchale and Parish in 86 that he would shoot every shot if he didnt feel they gave the effort he required. Dude drops 40 in a half on the Spurs to prove a point that he doesnt need them....they get it together. Win a ring that year.

He had Mchale and Parish in their primes. Kobe has Dwight....great...but not as reliable an offensive option and hes on his own around the basket right now not one of 3 elite frontcourt players all within 15 feet to take pressure off each other(and even when Pau is there Dantoni doesnt let him be himself). Kobe also doesnt have Dennis Johnson at point, Walton off the bench, and 2 great shooters.

Not really comparing the two as players....but Bird had the room to never appear selfish so he...never appeared selfish. You hear him talk about how much more faith he had in himself than his teammates he sounds a lot like Kobe though. Kobe has a talented team but until they mesh and play the ball that they can with Nash running the show....its a cluster**** out there. And Kobe feels the need to take over more than he would if they were getting it done.

Lots of stars score more in losses. You are down its on the shoulders of the star to keep you in it or bring you back. Especially when the #2 scorer is an in the flow of the game scorer more often than a takeover scorer.

Kobe takes too many shots at times. Hes been doing it for 17 years. But he took too many while winning rings. When it results in an L it looks ugly. But dude has been a key player on 12 top of the line teams. His way has proven itself.

If hes still doing it when Nash is back and 100% there is more to discuss. But now? I think hes earned the right to decide how to approach winning games.

The team as its been much of this season leaves a lot of room for someone to take over. Talent and assertive talent are very different things. Sheed is talented....Shawn Marion is talented....Zo was talented. Put all of them on a team with prime Tmac and hes still taking 20 shots a night....because they dont impose their will.

Kobe has no teammates who demand the ball. Pau is the closest and his coach is holding him back.

Nash can impose his will on an offense. And I think if its working Kobe wont mind a bit. But I can see why he wouldnt play spectator to the guys he has now. They arent built to lead a competitor like Kobe. Nash has the skills and resume to demand respect.

I think Kobe is smart enough to let him show what he can do. Till then...I reserve judgement.

[Umad101]

Wow kobe had 10 30+ games this season


Impressive

[Rysio]

he would need 50 points to carry those scrubs every game. :confusedshrug:

[chazzy]

its a different team this year with many new peices and 2 new coaching systems that theyre going through.
Which is why giving majority of the blame to Kobe for scoring 30 is stupid. You're figuring it out.

[kNicKz]

kobe is not the issue...

No nash/gasol

New coach

lakers have no flow right now.

Kobe looks better than he did last season imo, the TEAM as a whole is losing these games but if I had to point a finger it would be at dwight shooting low FT% and only showing spurts of his Magic self, maybe his back is still bothering him? idk, but they need a healthy nash and gasol back desperately. their record is going down the toilet

[swi7ch]

Well then the better question would be, why are they only 1-9 when he scores 30+?

Teammates are not involved on offense so defensively, they tune out as well because they're just watching Kobe the whole time on both ends of the floor.

[Kblaze8855]

If your teammates wont play defense if the 3 shots a game you take too many keeps the ball from them....your teammates are losers not worthy of a spot on a contender in the first place.

[swi7ch]

Lakers are 70% wining team for his career when he score 30+ or 40+, so the problem is somewhere else.
Yeah, well he's not as old as before, he had prime Shaq before, he had prime Pau before, he had the GOAT coach before, he had different teammates before, etc.

Point is, throw all those stats out because they're irrelevant this year in this current NBA season with this new Lakers with this new coach.

[chips93]

If your teammates wont play defense if the 3 shots a game you take too many keeps the ball from them....your teammates are losers not worthy of a spot on a contender in the first place.

so kobe taking too many shots is gonna make them play better defense?

could kobe try improve the defense, by actually giving effort on that end.

the lakers suck because of defensive issues more than anything else, and kobe has been pretty poor on that end so far this season. someone has to hold kobe accountable.

[White Mamba]

you can throw those numbers out the window. its a different team this year with many new peices and 2 new coaching systems that theyre going through. 5 rings and history doesnt apply to this current team

I'm not throwing numbers i'm throwing facts of big sample of games.

and you are right, this is a new team who has yet to play 2 games with their full roster, missing 2 allstars.

you are too smart to know the problem is not between 29 points and 31 points.

[White Mamba]

Yeah, well he's not as old as before, he had prime Shaq before, he had prime Pau before, he had the GOAT coach before, he had different teammates before, etc.

Point is, throw all those stats out because they're irrelevant this year in this current NBA season with this new Lakers with this new coach.

see comment above.

to think 30+ is relevant.....

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

so kobe taking too many shots is gonna make them play better defense?

could kobe try improve the defense, by actually giving effort on that end.

the lakers suck because of defensive issues more than anything else, and kobe has been pretty poor on that end so far this season. someone has to hold kobe accountable.

But it's not just Kobe's defense though. The whole team has been subpar defensively and that's a result of a number of factors. The thing is defense is about teamwork and communication. Dwight is supposed to be the defensive anchor and leader on that end.

Even if Kobe never missed a rotation and always closed out perfectly it wouldn't magically make the Lakers a 1st place team right now.

[Kblaze8855]

Kobe is not accountable for 11 other guys moving their feet or going over a screen hard. He can lead by example but the kind of man who needs someone else to do his jobe well in order to apply himself...is not a winner. If Kobe is dragging a bit on defense that is no excuse for you to see a man coming down the lane and not step in his way.

At what point are 30 year old men held accountable for their own actions?

Defense is coaching first and effort second. Kobe cant change the first and if they need help with the second....thats a character flaw Kobe cant be held accountable for.

You think say...Lindsey Hunter, Bruce Bowen, or Kirk Hinrich worry what anyone else is doing when someone is trying to score on them?

You have to have pride. If they lack it...they lack it. Kobe can help...and as leader he should. But the kind of people who NEED help to care....I dont want on my team to begin with,

[chazzy]

I would understand the criticism if he was playing the way he did last regular season, but Kobe's been more efficient as a scorer than all of Lebron's seasons and all but one of Jordan's so far. To point at his scoring being the problem is stupid, especially when the offense as a team is 6th or 7th in the league despite playing Duhon/Morris for 48 minutes most of the year.

They have defensive flaws, some of it personnel and some effort. They don't have enough perimeter speed to get back in transition, big hole at the 4 defensively, and no one's helping the helper when Dwight rotates.

[White Mamba]

.....

[Rysio]

Teammates are not involved on offense so defensively, they tune out as well because they're just watching Kobe the whole time on both ends of the floor.
what can kobe do about this? he's a legend cant change that. i guess if your his teammates you just have to stop admiring him so much during games and just play, there's always practice to admire his moves.

[Real Men Wear Green]

LA won't win the West if Gasol and Howard aren't utilized better. Bryant taking a ton of shots is partially to blame but it's far more an issue of coaching and strategy. Because if you put the ball in Bryant's hands he's going to shoot. He didn't get to wear he is playing like Magic, he's a scorer, that's how he has been defined, that's his DNA. D'Antoni is the one that's benching Gasol and having this shoot in seven seconds offense that's not built at all to feature post play. If you run a play to get Gasol the ball in the high or low post Bryant isn't going to run in there and steal it from him. He's ball-dominant and likes to shoot but he's not crazy.

[Pointguard]

Kobe should be shooting 17 to 18 shots per game or down two or three shots per game and DH should be up four or five shots per game to get him to 16 ish shots per game (he's in his prime).

If Kobe shares more and sacrifices for the team his teammates will follow. If Kobe is selfish and goes for his, the team isn't going to win. If you look at Play by Play at the end of games that aren't close in scoring, you will see that Kobe starts shooting a lot when the game is out of reach. The only way that can be taken is that Kobe has his own agenda.

In most of the wins
Vs. Detroit Kobe shot 10 times - impressive win
vs. GS Kobe shot 18 times - impressive win
vs. Sacramento Kobe shot 15 times - impressive win
vs Pheonix Kobe shot 24 times 10 for 24 but MWP, Gasol and DH all had good games and DH shot 14 times.
vs Houston 15 times - impressive win
vs Brooklyn 18 times
Recently
vs Dallas 11 times - impressive win
vs Denver 15 times - impressive win
vs New Orleans 17 times - impressive win

In the losses he's at 22 shots per game average.

Five out of the Seven times Dwight has shot 14 or more times the Lakers have won.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Who wants to play w/ someone gunning for 30+ half the time? Anyone saying he's a natural born scorer and can't playmake clearly never watched the threepeat Lakers. Kobe needs to get his guys involved. Period.

[chazzy]

Who wants to play w/ someone gunning for 30+ half the time? Anyone saying he's a natural born scorer and can't playmake clearly never watched the threepeat Lakers. Kobe needs to get his guys involved. Period.
They are involved. Averaging his usual 5 assists and the Lakers have the 6th best offense.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They are involved. Averaging his usual 5 assists and the Lakers have the 6th best offense.

That's not enough, especially w/ Gasol and Nash out. I don't give a damn what the offensive statistics say, the Lakers look like shit out there. There's zero flow.

[White Mamba]

That's not enough, especially w/ Gasol and Nash out. I don't give a damn what the offensive statistics say, the Lakers look like shit out there. There's zero flow.:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:roll:

Where is Dwight? Why is everything a jumpshot? That's not an offense. D'antoni is a bum.

[Pacers4ever]

I would understand the criticism if he was playing the way he did last regular season, but Kobe's been more efficient as a scorer than all of Lebron's seasons and all but one of Jordan's so far. To point at his scoring being the problem is stupid, especially when the offense as a team is 6th or 7th in the league despite playing Duhon/Morris for 48 minutes most of the year.

They have defensive flaws, some of it personnel and some effort. They don't have enough perimeter speed to get back in transition, big hole at the 4 defensively, and no one's helping the helper when Dwight rotates.
That's not even close to ever being relevant seeing the season isn't even close to being over. And he wasn't as efficient as a scorer as lebron's last year.

[selrahc]

its not kobe's fault. it's d'antoni's offensive strategy. shoot in 7 seconds or less? who the **** is kobe gonna give the ball to in that amount of time... MWP? Chris Duhon?

[shaq2000]

kobe is not the issue...

This. If he was (like in the past) I'd be the first to point it out. But Kobe is definitely not the problem right now.

[crisoner]

Useless Stat line...

Look at the team scoring on those games nobody was making crap.
Oh and when the team plays better the Lakers win.....

Like I said useless stat line. It is only repeated by people with an agenda.

[Whoah10115]

Kobe is shooting under 20 shots a game...19.7 to be exact. His shots per game are the lowest they've been since the year of Malone and Payton.

[chazzy]

That's not even close to ever being relevant seeing the season isn't even close to being over. And he wasn't as efficient as a scorer as lebron's last year.
It's relevant because we're discussing what's happened so far this year. He was.

[chosen_one6]

Kobe is shooting under 20 shots a game...19.7 to be exact. His shots per game are the lowest they've been since the year of Malone and Payton.

Yet they're still 1-9 when he takes 20 shots or more.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He was.

Uhhh, how? :confusedshrug:

[chazzy]

Uhhh, how? :confusedshrug:
60.8 TS% vs 60.5 TS%

[KG215]

Kobe is shooting under 20 shots a game...19.7 to be exact. His shots per game are the lowest they've been since the year of Malone and Payton.
He's averaging 22 FGA/game in his last 10 games, though, on 44% shooting. If you want a little bigger sample size, he's averaging 20.7 FGA/game in his last 15 games on 46% shooting. In that time, he is shooting 38%-40% from three, so he's still been pretty efficient. For comparison's sake, Howard is averaging 10.8 FGA/game in the last 10 games, and 11.6 per game over the last 15 games.

Now, with that said, last night was the first game I've watched this year where I really felt like Kobe really started to force some horrible shots. I only watched the second half, but there was three or our times he took on a double or triple team and forced a bad shot. Other than that game, though, I haven't had a problem with how he's been playing this season, and obviously the trend of his FGA/game going up will go down once Gasol and Nash return.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

60.8 TS% vs 60.5 TS%

Not that I like TS%, but you're wrong. We're, what, 20+ games into the season? Last year, Kobe shot a TS% of .527. His efficiency will go down, just like it always does.

[chazzy]

Not that I like TS%, but you're wrong. We're, what, 20+ games into the season? Last year, Kobe shot a TS% of .527. His efficiency will go down, just like it always does.
How am I wrong? I said he's been more efficient thus far. The point was just to put how efficient he's been in perspective.

[KingLeBronJames]

Goddamn. It's not Kobe's shooting. People need to quit thinking that's the problem. The media is pumping it to people like that's the real issue with the Lakers. Its not. It's team defense.

[Rysio]

Goddamn. It's not Kobe's shooting. People need to quit thinking that's the problem. The media is pumping it to people like that's the real issue with the Lakers. Its not. It's team defense.
but didnt you know that kobes great scoring makes others stop playing defense and turn the ball over on every other play?

[Pointguard]

He's averaging 22 FGA/game in his last 10 games, though, on 44% shooting. If you want a little bigger sample size, he's averaging 20.7 FGA/game in his last 15 games on 46% shooting. In that time, he is shooting 38%-40% from three, so he's still been pretty efficient. For comparison's sake, Howard is averaging 10.8 FGA/game in the last 10 games, and 11.6 per game over the last 15 games.


But why not attach the numbers to the trends that are happening.

When they win Kobe FGA are down. When they loose they are up. When DH's FGA are up they usually win most of the time. For the last three years DH has been considered a top three player on these boards (I wasn't one of them who thought this). When he's involved he's easily the best center in the game. When he isn't involved, Tyson Chandler affects the game more than he does.

[konex]

From the locked thread:


10pt loss @ Blazers. Kobe with 30/6/3 on 10-20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Blazers top performer was Batum with 26/6/1 and 3 stls on 9-16 shooting.

10pt loss vs. Clippers. Kobe with 40/6/1 + 2 stls on 14-23 shooting. He had 6 turnovers. Clippers top performer was Paul with 8/6/15 and 3 stls on 7-15 shooting.

16pt loss @ Kings. Kobe with 38/3/3 +2 steals on 11/20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Kings top performer was Thornton with 23/4/1 on 8-13 shooting.

8pt loss @ Memphis. Kobe with 30/3/4 +1 stl on 7/23 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Grizzlies top performer was Conley with 19/6/1 and 4 steals on 8-14 shooting.

2pt loss vs. Pacers. Kobe with 40/10/3 + 3 stls on 12-28 shooting. He had 10 turnovers. Pacers top performer was West with 16/10/8 on 7-15 shooting. This was the first hack-a-dwight game and Lakers missed 20fts in a 2pt loss. The bench also scored a whopping 5 points.

10pt loss vs. Magic. Kobe with 34/7/5 + 1stl on 12-27 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Magic top performer was Afflalo with 30/5/5 on 11-18 shooting. This was the second hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 14 fts.

2pt loss @ Rockets. Kobe with 39/6/2 + 2 stls. He had 3 turnovers. Rockets top performer was Smith with 21/9 on 7-8 shooting. This was the third hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 12fts in a 2pt loss.

6pt loss @ Thunder. Kobe with 35/3/7 with 2 blks and 3stls on 11-24 shooting. He had 5 turnovers. OKC top performer was Durant with 36/9/4 on 10-19 shooting.

7pt loss vs. Jazz. Kobe with 34/3 on + 1 stl on 9/24 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Jazz top performer was Williams with 22/9/2 on 8-11 shooting.


Looking through these games, Kobe's turnovers are high (been lower since Duhon's been starting) but I only found two instances of us getting scored on badly by people he would have guarded at all.

When we weren't losing games on the FT line, we were getting destroyed at the PG, SF and PF positions. I only included one top performer for opposing teams but more often than not, it was those 3 positions in some combination.

I don't know what the answers are but Kobe's not nearly the biggest problem...

[guy]

From the locked thread:


10pt loss @ Blazers. Kobe with 30/6/3 on 10-20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Blazers top performer was Batum with 26/6/1 and 3 stls on 9-16 shooting.

10pt loss vs. Clippers. Kobe with 40/6/1 + 2 stls on 14-23 shooting. He had 6 turnovers. Clippers top performer was Paul with 8/6/15 and 3 stls on 7-15 shooting.

16pt loss @ Kings. Kobe with 38/3/3 +2 steals on 11/20 shooting. He had 7 turnovers. Kings top performer was Thornton with 23/4/1 on 8-13 shooting.

8pt loss @ Memphis. Kobe with 30/3/4 +1 stl on 7/23 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Grizzlies top performer was Conley with 19/6/1 and 4 steals on 8-14 shooting.

2pt loss vs. Pacers. Kobe with 40/10/3 + 3 stls on 12-28 shooting. He had 10 turnovers. Pacers top performer was West with 16/10/8 on 7-15 shooting. This was the first hack-a-dwight game and Lakers missed 20fts in a 2pt loss. The bench also scored a whopping 5 points.

10pt loss vs. Magic. Kobe with 34/7/5 + 1stl on 12-27 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Magic top performer was Afflalo with 30/5/5 on 11-18 shooting. This was the second hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 14 fts.

2pt loss @ Rockets. Kobe with 39/6/2 + 2 stls. He had 3 turnovers. Rockets top performer was Smith with 21/9 on 7-8 shooting. This was the third hack-a-dwight game. Lakers missed 12fts in a 2pt loss.

6pt loss @ Thunder. Kobe with 35/3/7 with 2 blks and 3stls on 11-24 shooting. He had 5 turnovers. OKC top performer was Durant with 36/9/4 on 10-19 shooting.

7pt loss vs. Jazz. Kobe with 34/3 on + 1 stl on 9/24 shooting. He had 2 turnovers. Jazz top performer was Williams with 22/9/2 on 8-11 shooting.


Looking through these games, Kobe's turnovers are high (been lower since Duhon's been starting) but I only found two instances of us getting scored on badly by people he would have guarded at all.

When we weren't losing games on the FT line, we were getting destroyed at the PG, SF and PF positions. I only included one top performer for opposing teams but more often than not, it was those 3 positions in some combination.

I don't know what the answers are but Kobe's not nearly the biggest problem...

I see 5 games with at least 5 turnovers, 7 games with less then 5 assists, and 4 games of less then 45%. In 5 of those games 2 of those occurred, and in 1 of those games all 3 occurred. That indicates that he's dominating the ball to the team's detriment.

[crisoner]

Goddamn. It's not Kobe's shooting. People need to quit thinking that's the problem. The media is pumping it to people like that's the real issue with the Lakers. Its not. It's team defense.

It's just dumb BS.
Kobe shooting is talked about all the time. So much that talking heads just repeat it every single time that it becomes some sort of truth in their sad lil worlds.

Kobe won titles...but his shooting all the time makes those titles worthless.
Kobe scored 30,000 points in his career...but his shooting makes it worthless.
Kobe got a leg cramp...probably because he shoots all the time.

That's what it really has come to now.
So annoying.

[KingLeBronJames]

but didnt you know that kobes great scoring makes others stop playing defense and turn the ball over on every other play?
Even if he shoots less, their team defense STILL sucks.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Even if he shoots less, their team defense STILL sucks.

This is true.

Despite Kobe's gunning and LA's offense having no flow, there's no bigger problem than on the defensive end. I don't think I have ever seen more scrubs go off on one team than the Lakers. :oldlol:

[chips93]

You think say...Lindsey Hunter, Bruce Bowen, or Kirk Hinrich worry what anyone else is doing when someone is trying to score on them?

You have to have pride. If they lack it...they lack it. Kobe can help...and as leader he should. But the kind of people who NEED help to care....I dont want on my team to begin with,

kobes teammates are who they are. mitch might make a trade or sign a free agent here or there, but the roster isnt changing much.

kobe ought to learn how to get the best out of his teammates. should they be holding themselves accoutable? unquestionably. but if kobe considered himself a great leader, which im sure he does, then he should he held accountable too.

he thinks of himself as a great leader, and as a direct result of his leadership, his teammates are underperforming. im not saying his leadership isnt the only factor in them underperforming, but you cant tell me kobe not giving a shit in defense doesnt have a negative effect on how his teammates are playing

[Andrei89]

Kobe the cancer

[IamRAMBO24]

Breakdown on how Kobe's offensive game affects the defense:

If Kobe is chucking it up, the team suffers simply because the element of surprise and offensive versatility is no longer there: guys won't cut as much nor will they be more active because they have to space the floor and allow Kobe to go iso. Movement is no longer there and this will hurt them on the defensive end since nobody is being integrated into the chemistry thus nor will they be hyped on the defensive end when they are not given the chance to score a bucket or two.

The offensive game pumps the defensive game because players will be more pumped up if they throw down a dunk or nice highlight play. This in turn will push them to work harder on the defensive end. The only exception is if they chuck it up all the time and lose their energy to play defense at all which should be more reason why Kobe should shoot less and pass more.

As a team leader, his first job is to get the guys involved before he chucks it up; he's not doing that and it shows in their record.

[Mr. Incredible]

The Lakers are just not a good team. Simple as that.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Are you going to make this thread every time? "Lakers now 1-10", "now 1-11"...

[Heavincent]

"If Kobe just scores less points, the Lakers will win!"

ISh logic :facepalm

[mikek85]

Chucker is Chucker :roll:

[stallionaire]

"If Kobe just scores less points, the Lakers will win!"

ISh logic :facepalm

He's taking too many shots and he's not efficient enough.

Kobe is the cancer. A true chucker.

[chazzy]

He's taking too many shots and he's not efficient enough.

Kobe is the cancer. A true chucker.
Not efficient :oldlol: catch up, your crew has new talking points

[DatAsh]

The only argument for this argument is if you think fewer shots equates to him playing harder defense. Offensively, he has been terrific. He's moving the ball, helping play point when Morris is on the floor. He's been great. The defense has been bad and his defense hasn't been bad, but it's been subpar.



I agree with Kobe having been brilliant offensively thus far. However, I disagree with him not being bad defensively.

People like to rag on Magic for his bad defense, but prime Magic was a much better defender than the version of Kobe Bryant we've seen this year.

[White Mamba]

He's taking too many shots and he's not efficient enough.

Kobe is the cancer. A true chucker.
:roll: :roll: Kobe always leave room 4 haters, he is so nice, this party end in june:bowdown:

[TheBigVeto]

He's taking too many shots and he's not efficient enough.

Kobe is the cancer. A true chucker.

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Preach the truth brother!

[White Mamba]

I agree with Kobe having been brilliant offensively thus far. However, I disagree with him not being bad defensively.

People like to rag on Magic for his bad defense, but prime Magic was a much better defender than the version of Kobe Bryant we've seen this year.

He is playing too many minutes, no legs to do it all' a lot of 40+ under dantoni.

[Legends66NBA7]

So, let's us arbitrary records without context.

Bryant's record when he scores all-time in the regular season:

97-98: 1-1
98-99: 2-0
99-00: 8-0
00-01: 20-10
01-02: 13-5
02-03: 30-12
03-04: 15-4
04-05: 15-15
05-06: 33-23
06-07: 21-17
07-08: 25-11
08-09: 21-6
09-10: 19-10
10-11: 17-6
11-12: 17-7

In the playoffs:

99-00: 1-3
00-01: 6-0
01-02: 5-1
02-03: 6-3
03-04: 5-1
05-06: 0-1
06-07: 1-3
07-08: 8-4
08-09: 10-5
09-10: 10-4
10-11: 1-2
11-12: 3-4

So, I guess this is the first time that Bryant's teammates have been disinterested offensively and defensively.

I'm not saying Bryant's not to blame, but it's not about his scoring. If you want to account the Lakers losing with his play, look at his turnovers and defense. It's the Lakers as a unit, where in lies the problem. That and their missing 3 regular players in their rotation and 2 new coaching systems.

[upside24]

Breakdown on how Kobe's offensive game affects the defense:

If Kobe is chucking it up, the team suffers simply because the element of surprise and offensive versatility is no longer there: guys won't cut as much nor will they be more active because they have to space the floor and allow Kobe to go iso. Movement is no longer there and this will hurt them on the defensive end since nobody is being integrated into the chemistry thus nor will they be hyped on the defensive end when they are not given the chance to score a bucket or two.

The offensive game pumps the defensive game because players will be more pumped up if they throw down a dunk or nice highlight play. This in turn will push them to work harder on the defensive end. The only exception is if they chuck it up all the time and lose their energy to play defense at all which should be more reason why Kobe should shoot less and pass more.

As a team leader, his first job is to get the guys involved before he chucks it up; he's not doing that and it shows in their record.
Too much Iso not enough off ball movement and cuts by Kobe does make offenses stale and easily defended. It's the same for all scorers. You have to find out how to score within the offense so it doesn't lower overall scoring effficiency.

A balance has to be found where a player's scoring style doesn't affect overall team scoring.

Kobe could improve in that aspect. I'd love to see Kobe do more off-ball stuff. Maybe Nash can help that.

I'd still want Kobe on my team because he can go off at any time and make points against the best defenses.

[DatAsh]

He is playing too many minutes, no legs to do it all' a lot of 40+ under dantoni.

I agree.

[IamRAMBO24]

:roll: :roll: Kobe always leave room 4 haters, he is so nice, this party end in june:bowdown:

It is pretty obvious Kobe is expending too much energy on the offensive end and not enough on his defense.

This is just poor egotistical judgement on his part; if he is too tired to play D, then pass the f*ckin ball! Simple as that. Get other guys involved so he can actually make a block at least once this year.

It is dumb team leadership which calls into question whether or not he is more concern about Kareems scoring title or winning another championship.

[STATUTORY]

It is pretty obvious Kobe is expending too much energy on the offensive end and not enough on his defense.

This is just poor egotistical judgement on his part; if he is too tired to play D, then pass the f*ckin ball! Simple as that. Get other guys involved so he can actually make a block at least once this year.

It is dumb team leadership which calls into question whether or not he is more concern about Kareems scoring title or winning another championship.

Kobe is just trying to share the load for the team. If he's gonna dominate on offense and defense what is Dwight gonna do? he's giving dwight the opportunity to contribute by blocking some shots and stuff

ShareBe

[poido123]

Still some Kobe fans arguing til they are blue in the face :lol:

What does it take for some of you guys to open your eyes? Do you think all this negativity and backlash is unwarranted? Kobe gets called out more than any other star player, including Lebron, so maybe there is some truth to what people are saying about him...

[dazzer87]

I'm not saying Kobe should do the extreme opposite and just attempt 5 shots a game. All I'm saying is he should try to involve his teammates more on offense so they don't get disinterested offensively and defensively.
Involve teammates?????????? How the hell do you think he got to 5th all time........ Theres no passing in Kome's world!!!!

[Dictator]

It is pretty obvious Kobe is expending too much energy on the offensive end and not enough on his defense.

This is just poor egotistical judgement on his part; if he is too tired to play D, then pass the f*ckin ball! Simple as that. Get other guys involved so he can actually make a block at least once this year.

It is dumb team leadership which calls into question whether or not he is more concern about Kareems scoring title or winning another championship.

Kobe has more than a block already.

[IamRAMBO24]

Kobe is just trying to share the load for the team. If he's gonna dominate on offense and defense what is Dwight gonna do? he's giving dwight the opportunity to contribute by blocking some shots and stuff

ShareBe

Kobe is playing stupid ball.

If teams are hacking Howard, then let them get in foul trouble early on so the starters will be taken out of the game. Pass the ball to Gasol so he can get a feel for the game - the man has skills; it's just he's not able to use it because Kobe demands the ball every damn time and rarely gives it up. The ball down low will open up MVP and other shooters so they can step up and actually do some damage.

Stop with all the chucking during clutch moments; everybody knows he is going to shoot, so they will throw every defender at him and put their best on him, so why not trust his teammates a bit more so he does not have to take some lame fade away at the 3 point line that has no chance of going in. Passing the ball will open him up for more efficient shots when defenders know there are other scoring threats.

Kobe is just playing dumb basketball.

[Just2McFly]

Kobe is the last person I would blame for this team's struggles.

[Dictator]

Kobe is playing stupid ball.

If teams are hacking Howard, then let them get in foul trouble early on so the starters will be taken out of the game. Pass the ball to Gasol so he can get a feel for the game - the man has skills; it's just he's not able to use it because Kobe demands the ball every damn time and rarely gives it up. The ball down low will open up MVP and other shooters so they can step up and actually do some damage.

Stop with all the chucking during clutch moments; everybody knows he is going to shoot, so they will throw every defender at him and put their best on him, so why not trust his teammates a bit more so he does not have to take some lame fade away at the 3 point line that has no chance of going in. Passing the ball will open him up for more efficient shots when defenders know there are other scoring threats.

Kobe is just playing dumb basketball.


You don't understand.

1.Teams don't use hack-a-dwight only until the 4th q.
2.Pau doesn't have the strength to get position downlow nor does he really give effort to establish position and he ends up taking bad jumpers.
3.MWP is streaky and over dribbles, resulting in tos.
4.We have no players to pass to in the clutch. Pau, Dwight, Morris, Ebanks, Artest, Meeks, Jamison....etc. ???? We have a better chance with Kobe taking those. It's not like we have Ray Allen on the team.

All this results in Kobe taking extra shots.

[IamRAMBO24]

Kobe is the last person I would blame for this team's struggles.

Kobe is the team leader. He has the final say on who the coach is. He's got enough firepower.

There should be no more excuses: when a team is fully loaded and has the option to choose any coach, that should automatically exclude them from any further excuses.

You can point your fingers at a number of reasons but all the finger pointing won't end until you reach the true culprit, which is pretty much Kobe's inability to lead.

Magic has called them out. Let's see how he responds.

[IamRAMBO24]

You don't understand.

1.Teams don't use hack-a-dwight only until the 4th q.
2.Pau doesn't have the strength to get position downlow nor does he really give effort to establish position and he ends up taking bad jumpers.
3.MWP is streaky and over dribbles, resulting in tos.
4.We have no players to pass to in the clutch. Pau, Dwight, Morris, Ebanks, Artest, Meeks, Jamison....etc. ???? We have a better chance with Kobe taking those. It's not like we have Ray Allen on the team.

All this results in Kobe taking extra shots.

1. Exactly, so why not feed him early on and let him work his shots in. He is pretty damn efficient down low. This will open up the outside game and allow the rest of the team to get off early on.

2. Iso Paul down low also and let him get his shots in early on. He is not playing at his comfort level, thus he cannot contribute.

3. MWP will be more efficient with Howard or Gasol downlow as oppose to Kobe at mid range. He is not that great of a shooter, but he can hit the open spot up with consistency.

Let those guys establish themselves BEFORE Kobe gets his game on. This will make him more efficient because now the Lakers are working at full force instead of a one man chucking machine. It is harder to defend 5 guys than focus on 1.