Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs

[Money 23]

I know this forum is consumed with Wade haters, and agendas (mainly Kobe / LeBron stans)

But I was wondering how do people rank the top ten SGs of all-time, and where does Wade stand up in the echelon of the greats at the position?

He's easily one of the best players at the position I've ever seen of all-time, has a great resume, some amazing playoff / Finals performances, and some MVP caliber seasons.

But so much of his game / production can be attributed to rule changes, tied directly to officials and their whistles (2006 Finals) ... and then his evolution post 2011 of playing for whistles and flops instead of buckets was kind of off putting.

He's obviously behind #1) Jordan and #2) Kobe. I have a hard time ranking him historically over Jerry West.

But he's in battle with Drexler, and Iverson for me ... I have trouble deciding between these three SGs in terms of their historical rank.

I want to hear opinions.

[red1]

You are right about the agendas here, most people selectively have the memory of a goldfish when it comes to wade. The fact of the matter is that wade always comes through in the playoffs, and he came up big both times he had a shot in the finals. Last year he was not healthy but he was still an amazing second option. Third best shooting guard of all time.

[selrahc]

i'd rank him just slightly above eddie jones

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I think he's right there w/ Jerry West at #3. Only Kobe and MJ have better career resumes.

[Money 23]

I think he's right there w/ Jerry West at #3. Only Kobe and MJ have better career resumes.
Pretty much how I feel.

If LeBron didn't no show 2011 Finals, Wade would've easily wrapped up his 2x FMVP and I think I would put him at number 3 SG spot all-time.

That would be:

2x FMVP
3x NBA Champ

[Kews1]

lower than Ray Allen :cheers: :cheers: :banana:

[EnoughSaid]

I think if Wade maintains an elite level of play through the Playoffs, he can still win a FMVP.

Currently, in my opinion, he's 3rd.

[selrahc]

you guys are way overrating him... he sucks. if it wasnt for lebron and shaq he would have 0 championships and no one would even know who he is.

[Whoah10115]

My friend's favorite player is AI. He texted me last year and asked me if Wade had passed Iverson...I told him (as he had already previously agreed) Wade is a better player than AI...and I told him he'd quite easily passed Iverson, historically. He was sad because he agreed.


I don't see how Iverson could rank over Wade or (at least historically, but really in general) over Drexler. Wade is better than Drexler and all-time he should also be higher, by this point. Tho I'd be open to hearing why someone would think otherwise.


1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Logo
4. Wade
5. Drexler

[Money 23]

He is pretty much in his own little island at #4.
I think Drexler's resume and game stacks up. I prefer Wade, but Drexler has a case. You don't think so ?

Iverson also seemed to play in a tougher defensive era, as a smaller player at the position and arguably did more with less than Wade has done.

You could make the case Iverson got more of his points off buckets than the post 2006 rule changes and their tremendous gifts of free-throws.

I think it's an interesting discussion between Wade, Iverson, Drexler, and West for the #3 - #6 spot.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He is #4 at the moment and it will stay that way.

There is nobody really that you could argue over him but at the same time there isn't much of an argument that Wade should be above either West, Kobe, or MJ.

He is pretty much in his own little island at #4.

Don't neg anonymously, you lame.

[LongLiveTheKing]

If it wasn't for Lebron he would've had 2 FMVP, I think he's the 3rd best SG ever.

[Kews1]

If it wasn't for Lebron he would've had 2 FMVP, I think he's the 3rd best SG ever.

If it wasnt for Lebron he wouldnt even have that championship :confusedshrug:

[Money 23]

I've never negged you because you are one of the few posters I actually take seriously on this site and have a legit discussion with. I can't say the same for most though.
No I wasn't insinuating it was you ... I've taken you seriously ever since my come back and you stopped the trolling on the RG account.

But there is a SLEW of newbies that are trying to take shots at me, for reasons I can't really understand.

[Deuce Bigalow]

SG
1. Michael Jordan - #1
2. Kobe Bryant - #8
3. Jerry West - #14
4. Dwyane Wade - #29
5. Clyde Drexler - #34
6. Allen Iverson - #36
7. George Gervin - #48
8. Ray Allen - #54
9. Sam Jones - #55
10. Reggie Miller - #60

[red1]

People are irrational here so I find myself defending him time after time on this website.

Here are some facts I've noticed about wade. During his athletic prime, the guy was an absolute beast. Other stars have had their game effected by great defenses but I have noticed that wade always does his thing and shines against tough defenses that other stars are limited by. I have noticed the celtic defense was able to slow down both kobe and lebron, wade ripped right through them and was able to get his shots off efficiently. Number two, wade is an extremely productive player, you can run your entire offense through him and he will not only score during crunch time but he will distribute and make plays for the entire team. Extremely productive player on defense too because of his ability to turn up the pressure with the help defense. We have all seen the crunch time steals and blocks.

Stylistically people always compare kobe to mj because of the mid-range shooting but if you ask me wade is far more similar to young MJ. It is obvious that he spent a lot of time watching and learning from MJ's slashing style and he clearly succeeded at it because his ability to get to the rim is the best the league has ever seen.

Another easy to overlook fact is the way he went toe to toe with lebron for all of lebron's prime. How many nba greats all time would be able to make this claim? Even when they joined up on the same team they were inseperable untill wade's knee started failing him.

[k0kakw0rld]

you guys are way overrating him... he sucks. if it wasnt for lebron and shaq he would have 0 championships and no one would even know who he is.
:applause: I hate to say this but...










YOU'RE RIGHT :kobe:

[plowking]

I have him 4th. Few more good seasons and padding his resume and career statistics and he could move up to 3rd.
Drexler has no case over him. He wasn't as good, he crumbled during big moments, and he wasn't as good a scorer as Wade. Nor did he maintain a high level of play as long as Wade did. I'd take Gervin over Drexler.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

In 2008... ESPN did not even have him among the top 10 SGs

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-greatestsgs

I'm not sure what you think he accomplished since then that would dramatically change that

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I've been getting negged anonymously like crazy from some soft [()]s too

:oldlol:

You got negged by Stateofmind btw. We both did.

Every other post on this forum reads of a mental patient who just got access to a computer.

Wade and West are interchangeable. Deal w/ it nerd ragers. :oldlol:

[red1]

Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm sure putting up 3 dominant seasons in a row after that would not change any perspective.

:rolleyes:


Pretty low standards for "dominant". :confusedshrug:

008-09 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.

West's jumpshot was wet. Dirk Nowitzki 2011 run wet. I haven't thought Wade was Lebron's 1B since 2011 tbh.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Sorry buddy, I didn't neg him. I usually rep him when I get the chance but I had to spread so I negged clowns like yourself.

Why would I neg one of the few posters I take seriously on here?

What in that post warranted a neg? Quit being a bitch hiding anonymously.

[HardwoodLegend]

Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.

You should have ended at "before our time".

He was in an era with inferior training knowledge, dieting, etc. So dropping him in today's time to see how he would fare is not entirely fair. Who knows how good the Logo could have been with an HGH jaw..

A player should simply be measured in how they stacked up against and performed within the rest of the league in their day.

[plowking]

Pretty low standards for "dominant". :confusedshrug:

008-09 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

He should have been on the first team in 2010-2011 as well. Not his fault people that vote are stupid.

[Heavincent]

I was hoping that RG got banned permanently. Guess not though.

[CavaliersFTW]

Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.
The most clutch player in NBA history would be 1a in the playoffs if Lebron was on his team...

Jerry West is firmly #3, Wade isn't touching him, era doesn't even matter - Outside of a 2-3 year stretch of being neck and neck Wade is simply not as good a player as West - his prime was just as potent but it was much shorter than West's. If West played with Lebron he'd be just as good as when he was playing along side Baylor in the 60's w/o question, and he'd be better than this current version of Wade. He'd be dominating playoffs with virtually unrivaled elevation of his game particularly if Lebron slips as in 2011. If you think West was lesser because of his era than you don't understand Jerry, or basketball history in general and you shouldn't be commenting on either subject. West is the 3rd greatest and 3rd best shooting guard in NBA history, and he's probably the best combo 1 and 2 in NBA history because he also proved to be a league leading point guard at the end of his career. Something I don't think Wade can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPHFt3PljyA

http://youtu.be/OEzwR1a8KuA

[red1]

You should have ended at "before our time".

He was in an era with inferior training knowledge, dieting, etc. So dropping him in today's time to see how he would fare is not entirely fair. Who knows how good the Logo could have been with an HGH jaw..

A player should simply be measured in how they stacked up against and performed within the rest of the league in their day.
Career-wise yeah it is very debatable but when you look at who played at the highest level it would look something like

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Mcgrady


With jerry west coming after a couple of other guys. Even Iverson, Drexler, and RayRay probably reached a higher level. Did they have an advantage because of the fact that they came in a more favourable era? Yeah but that doesn't change any of the other facts. This is why it is futile ranking players that came before the 80s. 80s onwards - any player can be directly compared. Bird and Magic would ball in this era to the same extent but I don't think the same can be said for many of the players that came before

[TheCorporation]

Pretty much how I feel.

If LeBron didn't no show 2011 Finals, Wade would've easily wrapped up his 2x FMVP and I think I would put him at number 3 SG spot all-time.

That would be:

2x FMVP
3x NBA Champ

Agreed.

Wade is #3 behind Kobe and MJ.

[Money 23]

SG
1. Michael Jordan - #1
2. Kobe Bryant - #8
3. Jerry West - #14
4. Dwyane Wade - #29
5. Clyde Drexler - #34
6. Allen Iverson - #36
7. George Gervin - #48
8. Ray Allen - #54
9. Sam Jones - #55
10. Reggie Miller - #60
Really thorough ranking, will rep when I can.


You got negged by Stateofmind btw. We both did.
I've been getting negged like crazy, and no one has the balls to admit who they were. haha


People are irrational here so I find myself defending him time after time on this website. Here are some facts I've noticed about wade. During his athletic prime, the guy was an absolute beast. Other stars have had their game effected by great defenses but I have noticed that wade always does his thing and shines against tough defenses that other stars are limited by. I have noticed the celtic defense was able to slow down both kobe and lebron, wade ripped right through them and was able to get his shots off efficiently. Number two, wade is an extremely productive player, you can run your entire offense through him and he will not only score during crunch time but he will distribute and make plays for the entire team. Extremely productive player on defense too because of his ability to turn up the pressure with the help defense. We have all seen the crunch time steals and blocks.

Another easy to overlook fact is the way he went toe to toe with lebron for all of lebron's prime. How many nba greats all time would be able to make this claim? Even when they joined up on the same team they were inseperable untill wade's knee started failing him.
Agreed, fantastic post.


Stylistically people always compare kobe to mj because of the mid-range shooting but if you ask me wade is far more similar to young MJ. It is obvious that he spent a lot of time watching and learning from MJ's slashing style and he clearly succeeded at it because his ability to get to the rim is the best the league has ever seen.
Wade is similar to early MJ, growing up in Chicago it's obvious to see the influence.

But think about the peak version of MJ (90 - 93), he was essentially the best of Wade and Kobe combined. He had the speed, quickness, and relentless attacking ability of Wade. But an even better finisher. And had the skill, footwork, and wet jumper of Kobe.

Both these players, arguably the 2nd and 3rd greatest SGs of all-time are essentially the two major halves of peak MJ's game.

Unbelievable.


If it wasnt for Lebron he wouldnt even have that championship
If LeBron didn't play Casper in the 2011 Finals, Wade would've got that 2nd chip and a 2nd FMVP.

Wade was just as good as LeBron in 2011. And was a competitor to LeBron, even in his absolute peak. Don't play yourself, kid.

[red1]

The most clutch player in NBA history would be 1a in the playoffs if Lebron was on his team...

Jerry West is firmly #3, Wade isn't touching him, era doesn't even matter - Outside of a 2-3 year stretch of being neck and neck Wade is simply not as good a player as West - his prime was just as potent but it was much shorter than West's. If West played with Lebron he'd be just as good as when he was playing along side Baylor in the 60's w/o question, and he'd be better than this current version of Wade. He'd be dominating playoffs with virtually unrivaled elevation of his game particularly if Lebron slips as in 2011. If you think West was lesser because of his era than you don't understand Jerry, or basketball history in general and you shouldn't be commenting on either subject. West is the 3rd greatest and 3rd best shooting guard in NBA history, and he's probably the best combo 1 and 2 in NBA history because he also proved to be a league leading point guard at the end of his career. Something I don't think Wade can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPHFt3PljyA

http://youtu.be/OEzwR1a8KuA
I admit that he came before our era and the only knowledge I have on the dude is the stats, awards, and highlights but common sense alone tells you that the players today are stronger and faster and thus have a huge advantage over those that came before.

[Kews1]

If LeBron didn't play Casper in the 2011 Finals, Wade would've got that 2nd chip and a 2nd FMVP.

Wade was just as good as LeBron in 2011. And was a competitor to LeBron, even in his absolute peak. Don't play yourself, kid.

Yea but if Lebron didnt play "Casper" than you have to obviously assume he would of played well, which means that he would more likely than not won the FMVP and not D-wade. Your point reflects worse on D-Wade because it actually enforces the fact that he needs Lebron to be Lebron in order to win and he cant do it without him? :confusedshrug:

[Money 23]

Yea but if Lebron didnt play "Casper" than you have to obviously assume he would of played well, which means that he would more likely than not won the FMVP and not D-wade.
Clearly thou art trolling.

All the Heat needed was LeBron to play closer to his averages. He didn't even have to hit them for the Heat to have won that series.

They just needed him to play slightly better than the effort and performances he was putting up.

Wade was easily the best player in that series. He was amazing, in multiple games.

[red1]

But think about the peak version of MJ (90 - 93), he was essentially the best of Wade and Kobe combined. He had the speed, quickness, and relentless attacking ability of Wade. But an even better finisher. And had the skill, footwork, and wet jumper of Kobe.

Both these players, arguably the 2nd and 3rd greatest SGs of all-time are essentially the two major halves of peak MJ's game.

Yeah young MJ really did have the best aspect of both wade and kobe on offense. He was the GOAT even before he ever won.

[red1]

Yea but if Lebron didnt play "Casper" than you have to obviously assume he would of played well, which means that he would more likely than not won the FMVP and not D-wade. Your point reflects worse on D-Wade because it actually enforces the fact that he needs Lebron to be Lebron in order to win and he cant do it without him? :confusedshrug:
Stop posting mang, you are wrong on both counts.

[CavaliersFTW]

You should have ended at "before our time".

He was in an era with inferior training knowledge, dieting, etc. So dropping him in today's time to see how he would fare is not entirely fair. Who knows how good the Logo could have been with an HGH jaw..

A player should simply be measured in how they stacked up against and performed within the rest of the league in their day.
What you said is a back hand compliment whether you intended it to be or not.

First off, w/o HGH prime Logo wearing chucks is better than almost anyone playing today so you shouldn't even need to handicap your judgement of him like that - it's clear as day when u watch West in action that there is nothing about his game that would be ineffective today - he's all-time talent. If you handicap him to his era than it sounds almost as silly as someone trying to handicap and apologize for MJ "it's not fair to compare MJ to today's players cause of his era"... with genuine talent era goes out the door - you could put West, Larry Bird, MJ or any other all-time player from a past era in today's game or any game with a time machine and i'd bet money they aren't going to do worse just because a bunch of meatheats today abuse HGH. Same goes for all time players playing today - they will adjust to past rules etc. A great player will immediately adapt to a slightly different game if it is necessary at all.

Second off, you need to change your philosophy on life in general if you believe past automatically must be assumed as inferior... that's not the way the cookie crumbles for humans and how they train, the things that have had leaps and bounds are our technology not necessarily our abilities to train and refine ourselves at a particular task (like say, playing defense / scoring). If you knew anything about Jerry West you'd know nobody trained harder or more religiously than him - he was a total perfectionist, the Kobe of his era, and the things he was doing while practicing I'd bet money were not drastically different let alone inferior to what great players in the league are doing today... In fact great players in the league today like Kobe learned a heck of a lot about training directly from West who has been there and done it all already.

[Young X]

People are irrational here so I find myself defending him time after time on this website.

Here are some facts I've noticed about wade. During his athletic prime, the guy was an absolute beast. Other stars have had their game effected by great defenses but I have noticed that wade always does his thing and shines against tough defenses that other stars are limited by. I have noticed the celtic defense was able to slow down both kobe and lebron, wade ripped right through them and was able to get his shots off efficiently. Number two, wade is an extremely productive player, you can run your entire offense through him and he will not only score during crunch time but he will distribute and make plays for the entire team. Extremely productive player on defense too because of his ability to turn up the pressure with the help defense. We have all seen the crunch time steals and blocks.

Stylistically people always compare kobe to mj because of the mid-range shooting but if you ask me wade is far more similar to young MJ. It is obvious that he spent a lot of time watching and learning from MJ's slashing style and he clearly succeeded at it because his ability to get to the rim is the best the league has ever seen.

Another easy to overlook fact is the way he went toe to toe with lebron for all of lebron's prime. How many nba greats all time would be able to make this claim? Even when they joined up on the same team they were inseperable untill wade's knee started failing him.
Everything in this post, especially the bolded is true, good post.

[Money 23]

Everything in this post, especially the bolded is true, good post.
I still remember 2010 Wade sodomizing that AMAZING defense that severely limited Kobe, and annoyed LeBron from time to time.

He had that one game where he dropped what? 46 or 48 points in 3 quarters? And then the whole 4th quarter the Celtics sent three defenders at him to force him to give the ball up?

Wade's next best player that season was second year vet and totally inconsistent and stupid Michael Beasley? :oldlol:

Poor guy. Wade's roster from 2008 - 2010 is worse than anything Kobe or LeBron had to deal with.


Career-wise yeah it is very debatable but when you look at who played at the highest level it would look something like

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Mcgrady


With jerry west coming after a couple of other guys. Even Iverson, Drexler, and RayRay probably reached a higher level. Did they have an advantage because of the fact that they came in a more favourable era? Yeah but that doesn't change any of the other facts. This is why it is futile ranking players that came before the 80s. 80s onwards - any player can be directly compared. Bird and Magic would ball in this era to the same extent but I don't think the same can be said for many of the players that came before
Totally agree on SG peak GAMES as ranked.

And also agree that anything pre 1979 / 1980 was the foundation building for modern basketball, so judging even historical players that were amazing in their era is a difficult thing to do because the game was still evolving to it's peak potential.

That's why I separate the founding stars of the game, from the post 1980 modernized game.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Everything in this post, especially the bolded is true, good post.
'11 ECF vs the No. 1 Defense Chicago Bulls
Wade: 18.8 PPG/2.2 APG/4.0 TO/.405%FG/.200%3PT

[Money 23]

'11 ECF vs the No. 1 Defense Chicago Bulls
Wade: 18.8 PPG/2.2 APG/4.0 TO/.405%FG/.200%3PT
Wade through out his career struggles v.s. Chicago.

Pretty sure it's a mental thing regarding playing his hometown team.

He still made some clutch ass buckets and defensive stops in that series, even given his poor play that series.

[Sharmer]

Top 5 for sure.

[red1]

When he came back in 2008 after the injury the hunger and focus I saw in wade was just amazing. He was never in a position to win an mvp or take his team far in the playoffs but the player I saw that year would easily rival any of the top players all time. Impact on the court was unreal, was a blur on the court doing something during every play and was relentless on defense and on offense.

[red1]

money23 I will rep you the next chance I get. You are always on point

[97 bulls]

Wade is overrated. I've never seen a players career be based on one year and one series as much as Wade.

[PJR]

[QUOTE]Warriors coach Mark Jackson endeared himself to Heat fans Wednesday when he called Dwyane Wade the third-best shooting guard to ever play the game.

[PJR]

Wade is overrated. I've never seen a players career be based on one year and one series as much as Wade.

Go ahead an elaborate on that, pleiboi.

But I already know you aren't the sharpest tool in the bunch, considering you probably think Pippen is better than Wade. :oldlol:

[Money 23]

Wade is overrated. I've never seen a players career be based on one year and one series as much as Wade.
:biggums:

Huh?

He busted out in his rookie playoffs.

Took his game to superstar level in the 2005 season.

Surpassed Shaq as alpha in the 2005 playoffs, almost lead the Heat past the defending champ, Pistons.

2006 Top Five Player, dominated the playoffs, and Finals (yes with questionable officiating)

2007 was MVP caliber (pre shoulder injury)

2008 was a mixed bag due to injuries

2008 Olympics was arguably Team USA's best player, super clutch

2009 was MVP caliber, as good or better than any Kobe or LeBron season

2010 Top 5 Player

2011 Top 5 Player again

WTF are you smoking on "a career based on one season"?!

[PJR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVWFIGhD980

He was just trolling, there. :lol

[97 bulls]

Go ahead an elaborate on that, pleiboi.

But I already know you aren't the sharpest tool in the bunch, considering you probably think Pippen is better than Wade. :oldlol:
All of Wades a accomplishments are based on that questionable ref given Finals in 06' and his 09 season. How many all defense 1st and all nba 1st teams does he have?

[97 bulls]

:biggums:

Huh?

He busted out in his rookie playoffs.

Took his game to superstar level in the 2005 season.

Surpassed Shaq as alpha in the 2005 playoffs, almost lead the Heat past the defending champ, Pistons.

2006 Top Five Player, dominated the playoffs, and Finals (yes with questionable officiating)

2007 was MVP caliber (pre shoulder injury)

2008 was a mixed bag due to injuries

2008 Olympics was arguably Team USA's best player, super clutch

2009 was MVP caliber, as good or better than any Kobe or LeBron season

2010 Top 5 Player

2011 Top 5 Player again

WTF are you smoking on "a career based on one season"?!
This is a resume?

[Money 23]

All of Wades a accomplishments are based on that questionable ref given Finals in 06' and his 09 season. How many all defense 1st and all nba 1st teams does he have?
Are all defensive teams accomplishments make or break a player?

He is short on 1st team selections because he competed against Kobe for basically his entire career, and Kobe's resume makes him the 2nd best SG of all-time.

Let's admit, you're just a bitter hater. Dwyane Wade as an individual player is better than Scottie Pippen.

Get over it, already. Your agenda is clear.

[Kews1]

Stop posting mang, you are wrong on both counts.

http://static3.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/No+F%C2%ADaggot.+YOU+are+only+a+b%C2%ADronie+to+be +a+_3ca58d31f9cfff0505b3561326770372.jpg

[97 bulls]

Are all defensive teams accomplishments that make or break a player?

He is short on 1st team selections because he competed against Kobe for basically his entire career, and Kobe's resume makes him the 2nd best SG of all-time.

Let's admit, you're just a bitter hater. Dwyane Wade as an individual player is better than Scottie Pippen.

Get over it, already. Your agenda is clear.
What do I have to be bitter about? Pippen and Wade never played each other. I hate that the Heat beat the Bulls in 11. But that was all James. The Heat won that series in spite of Wade.

[Money 23]

What do I have to be bitter about? Pippen and Wade never played each other. I hate that the Heat beat the Bulls in 11. But that was all James. The Heat won that series in spite of Wade.
I just feel like you always have a not so hidden agenda in propping up Pippen.

Wade is easily an all-time great, and it isn't based off one series, or one season.

Wade has a nice resume, especially given context. He competed against the 2nd best SG of all-time, and against arguably the best SF of all-time (a top five talent / player all-time) during his prime for a number of seasons.

Wade did well, and held his own against both. Wade's competition at his position, is superior to what Pippen faced competitively at his position from '91 - '98.

I think you're being down right disrespectful to Wade's game, and career.

[selrahc]

Are all defensive teams accomplishments make or break a player?

He is short on 1st team selections because he competed against Kobe for basically his entire career, and Kobe's resume makes him the 2nd best SG of all-time.

Let's admit, you're just a bitter hater. Dwyane Wade as an individual player is better than Scottie Pippen.

Get over it, already. Your agenda is clear.

This kid is clearly trolling :oldlol:

[Whoah10115]

This is a resume?



Don't even know what you're trying to say.

[97 bulls]

I just feel like you always have a not so hidden agenda in propping up Pippen.

Wade is easily an all-time great, and it isn't based off one series, or one season.

Wade has a nice resume, especially given context. He competed against the 2nd best SG of all-time, and against arguably the best SF of all-time (a top five talent / player all-time) during his prime for a number of seasons.

Wade did well, and held his own against both. Wade's competition at his position, is superior to what Pippen faced competitively at his position from '91 - '98.

I think you're being down right disrespectful to Wade's game, and career.
This isnt a whos better between Wade and Pippen debate bro. But dont get me wrong. Wades a great player. But hes not on the level of West. And a strong argument can be made for Drexler.

[longhornfan1234]

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Drexler
5. Gervin
6. AI
7. Miller
8. Wade

[97 bulls]

Don't even know what you're trying to say.
Im saying its not a resume bro. A bunch of excuses

[Whoah10115]

And a strong argument can be made for Drexler.


Then make it.

[Money 23]

Don't even know what you're trying to say.
Wade has five legit seasons where he was a top five player in the league.

How many players can make a claim similar? That is all the resume he needs, right there.

[Young X]

Wade has 5 legit seasons where he was a top five player in the league.

How many people can make a claim of the opposite? That is all the resume he needs, right there.
Exactly, Wade was on the same level as Kobe and Lebron when he was healthy, and has seasons comparable to their best seasons yet you have people that think Pippen and Miller are better than him? Really? :facepalm

[red1]

Wade is overrated. I've never seen a players career be based on one year and one series as much as Wade.
Overrated? You serious? It is basically a fact that he is underrated, and was underrated his whole career.


This isnt a whos better between Wade and Pippen debate bro. But dont get me wrong. Wades a great player. But hes not on the level of West. And a strong argument can be made for Drexler.
Drexler was not as good as wade. Guaranteed wade would've gone much harder at jordan, drexler got embarrased every time. Apha dog mentality is not just sports lingo, wade is an alpha dog and drexler is not. West can only be compared relative to eras but we all know who would be drafted first.

[97 bulls]

Exactly, Wade was on the same level as Kobe and Lebron when he was healthy, and has seasons comparable to their best seasons yet you have people that think Pippen and Miller are better than him? Really? :facepalm
Wade has never been considered the best player in the league. NEVER

[red1]

Wade has never been considered the best player in the league. NEVER
Hence he is underrated.

[PJR]

If it weren't for that damn freak shoulder injury, Wade's case would be so much stronger. This Clyde Drexler shit would be even more laughable than it is now.

He was cookin' in 2006-07. Had like 28-7-5 on 49% shooting thru like the first 40 games, and then he ran into Shane Battier. Dislocation, torn labrum :banghead: That robbed him of a year and half of his prime, because he delayed the surgery.

He would be looking at sustained greatness of 9 or 10 straight years now, instead of like 8.5 years. But I digress.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wade has never been considered the best player in the league. NEVER

Not sure why you say that. Mike thought he was the MVP in 2009 (and arguably the best player in the league). Dude was bananas that season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66lVkgiU1zQ

[97 bulls]

Overrated? You serious? It is basically a fact that he is underrated, and was underrated his whole career.


Drexler was not as good as wade. Guaranteed wade would've gone much harder at jordan, drexler got embarrased every time. Apha dog mentality is not just sports lingo, wade is an alpha dog and drexler is not. West can only be compared relative to eras but we all know who would be drafted first.
Kirk Hinrich got into Wades ass in his prime. But were supposed to believe he hang with Jordan.

Alpha dog? He conspired with another player to lead him to a championship. Even bowed out as the all important "alpha dog". Drexler never did that. And hes not on Jerry West level.

[red1]

Kirk Hinrich got into Wades ass in his prime. But were supposed to believe he hang with Jordan.

Alpha dog? He conspired with another player to lead him to a championship. Even bowed out as the all important "alpha dog". Drexler never did that. And hes not on Jerry West level.
You are ridiculous.

[97 bulls]

Not sure why you say that. Mike thought he was the MVP in 2009 (and arguably the best player in the league). Dude was bananas that season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66lVkgiU1zQ
I wouldnt put much stock in Jordan's opinion on talent. His evaluation of talent hasnt done anything for the Bobcats.

[RoseCity07]

In his prime I rank him above Kobe. The only reason he isn't higher is because he has had a much shorter prime. Wade really is one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game. He's just been really banged up because of his style of play.

[Money 23]

Wade has never been considered the best player in the league. NEVER
He's been in the talks, which is good enough.

And was competing against an all time great season FROM A TOP FIVE PLAYER EVER for MVP in 2009.

2006 / 2007 / 2009 / 2010 / 2011 were best player in the league caliber seasons.

People keep forgetting his 2007 season before injury. I remember him out playing Kobe on Christmas Day, too.

He was putting up 27 / 8 / 8 a game, and what seemed like 2 blocks a game, carrying the Shaq-less Miami Heat. Next best players being old as dirt GP, Antoine Walker, and Jason Williams.

2009 is a season that stands up with Kobe's best ever (2003 / 2008) and holds it's own with LeBron's 2009, 2010, 2012 apart from team record and team accomplishment


Kirk Hinrich got into Wades ass in his prime. But were supposed to believe he hang with Jordan.
Kirk Hinrich is one of the best on ball defenders of all-time, believe it or not.

Shame he has no all defensive team selections. If he wasn't coming up in such a soft defensive rules era, in the 90s where you could check people ... his defense would've been absurd.

Hinrich also gives lighting quick players like D-Rose trouble, too. I've seen him in person put Kobe on lock down.

Is Kobe not an all-time great, either?

[Young X]

Nothing objective points to Wade never being a candidate for best player in the league. He led his team to a championship, won FMVP, put up all-time great numbers, top 3 in MVP voting, top 3 in DPOY voting, led the league in scoring, great playoff peformances, etc...

[NLZ]

Jordan

Bryant


West

Allen Iverson/Dwyane Wade

[97 bulls]

If it weren't for that damn freak shoulder injury, Wade's case would be so much stronger. This Clyde Drexler shit would be even more laughable than it is now.

He was cookin' in 2006-07. Had like 28-7-5 on 49% shooting thru like the first 40 games, and then he ran into Shane Battier. Dislocation, torn labrum :banghead: That robbed him of a year and half of his prime, because he delayed the surgery.

He would be looking at sustained greatness of 9 or 10 straight years now, instead of like 8.5 years. But I digress.
The League changed the rules for players like Wade.

[red1]

Jordan

Bryant


West

Allen Iverson/Dwyane Wade
My friend, Iverson is not even a debate. Wade>AI on offense and rebounding, >>>>> when it comes to defense.

[red1]

Nothing objective points to Wade never being a candidate for best player in the league. He led his team to a championship, won FMVP, put up all-time great numbers, top 3 in MVP voting, top 3 in DPOY voting, led the league in scoring, great playoff peformances, etc...
Exactly. People need to start thinking for themselves and making their own judgements when watching the game. Not winning an mvp doesn't mean that you were never the best player in the league. It is possible to win the mvp even though another player is out there playing just as well as you are.

[PJR]

The League changed the rules for players like Wade.

Spare me this nonsense.

Dwyane Wade would cook an any era. And I mean any era. He's a transcendent talent.

There was handchecking in Wade's rookie year, and he was still one of the more electrifying rookies in the business, and clearly bound for superstardom.

There's A reason Shaq was cool with being traded to Miami. He saw it too.

[Money 23]

The League changed the rules for players like Wade.
Most legit point you have made in this thread, but Wade still is an all-time great.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I wouldnt put much stock in Jordan's opinion on talent. His evaluation of talent hasnt done anything for the Bobcats.

But it wasn't just Jordan's opinion. Many people thought that, including us fans.

[97 bulls]

Nothing objective points to Wade never being a candidate for best player in the league. He led his team to a championship, won FMVP, put up all-time great numbers, top 3 in MVP voting, top 3 in DPOY voting, led the league in scoring, great playoff peformances, etc...
Hes never been. After Jordan. Shaq took the reigns, then Kobe , now James.

[Whoah10115]

Being real now (and it's not like I heard the argument) Drexler is simply not as good as Dwyane Wade. It's ridiculous to think so.


Wade might have been the MVP in 07 if he doesn't get hurt. He was ridiculous.

He was a beast the next year. And the year after, he should have won the MVP.


When you factor in the playoffs, Wade was the Heat's best player in 05. The next year, he was insane. He's a guy who does everything without over-dominating the ball to do so. Dwyane Wade is better than Drexler.


Maybe he could have been better than West, but I really don't see how he could be considered better than West right now. But there is no one outside that top 3 that really has any argument over him.


Lastly, Lebron really only established himself as the league's best player during last year. Not saying Wade was or was not the best player in the league, but he's in that discussion. Couldn't we argue that West was never the best player in the league? It was Wilt then Kareem...isn't that an argument to have? Whatever, Wade is #4 with a comparable prime to #3...but unless Wade goes back to being truly elite, he won't climb West. And even then, he might not.

[NLZ]

My friend, Iverson is not even a debate. Wade>AI on offense and rebounding, >>>>> when it comes to defense.
Iverson vs Wade
1x Most Valuable Player vs 0x Most Valuable Player
0x Finals MVP vs 1x Finals MVP
1x Rookie of the Year vs 0x Rookie of the Year
[B]11

[Young X]

Hes never been. After Jordan. Shaq took the reigns, then Kobe , now James.
Going by this logic, Duncan and KG never were candidates for best player in the league, which is obviously wrong.

[red1]

[QUOTE=NLZ]Iverson vs Wade
1x Most Valuable Player vs 0x Most Valuable Player
0x Finals MVP vs 1x Finals MVP
1x Rookie of the Year vs 0x Rookie of the Year
[B]11

[red1]

Iverson is another guy who is underrated, and he is definitely a unique and special player for different reasons, mainly his size and heart, but ultimately he is not as valuable to a team as wade is or was. I am not going to mention rings or stats or anythings just gonna say that wade is prototypical as a shooting guard, he can guard any guard in the league whereas AI is a little guy who will get torched by bigger players who can back him down. Just harder to build around the guy.

[Money 23]

Anyone have accurate stats for Wade in the 2006 - 2007 season, before his injury?

[Young X]

Anyone have accurate stats for Wade in the 2006 - 2007 season, before his injury?
28.8 pts, 7.9 asts, 4.8 rebs, 2.2 stls, 1.3 blks on 49% (46 games).

[PJR]

28.8 pts, 7.9 asts, 4.8 rebs, 2.2 stls, 1.3 blks on 49% (46 games).

Ridiculous. :mad:

[HiphopRelated]

Anyone have accurate stats for Wade in the 2006 - 2007 season, before his injury?
He was injured the 1st game after allstar break

pre ASB

28.8/4.8/7.8 49.5 fg%

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3708/splits?year=2006&type=Fielding

[Money 23]

28.8 pts, 7.9 asts, 4.8 rebs, 2.2 stls, 1.3 blks on 49% (46 games).
Thanks

So basically 29 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg, and 1 bpg on 50% FG percentage.

Nice.

[97 bulls]

Being real now (and it's not like I heard the argument) Drexler is simply not as good as Dwyane Wade. It's ridiculous to think so.


Wade might have been the MVP in 07 if he doesn't get hurt. He was ridiculous.

He was a beast the next year. And the year after, he should have won the MVP.


When you factor in the playoffs, Wade was the Heat's best player in 05. The next year, he was insane. He's a guy who does everything without over-dominating the ball to do so. Dwyane Wade is better than Drexler.


Maybe he could have been better than West, but I really don't see how he could be considered better than West right now. But there is no one outside that top 3 that really has any argument over him.


Lastly, Lebron really only established himself as the league's best player during last year. Not saying Wade was or was not the best player in the league, but he's in that discussion. Couldn't we argue that West was never the best player in the league? It was Wilt then Kareem...isn't that an argument to have? Whatever, Wade is #4 with a comparable prime to #3...but unless Wade goes back to being truly elite, he won't climb West. And even then, he might not.
Fair assessment. And after further review, Drexler hasnt accomplished what Wade has. Wade should be ranked higher. But I'm sure had Drexler teamed with Barkley and thr Suns or Malone and the Jazz or Ewing and the Knicks, hed have more rings and be at leadt on par with Wade

[Legends66NBA7]

IMHO, Wade's Top 4 SG, Top 6 guard, and a Top 25-30 player of all-time.

Great regular season and playoff statistics. When healthy, is considered a Top 3 player in his prime/peak. He rivals both Kobe Bryant and LeBron James at his peak. Had the most "Jordan-esque" Finals for SG in 2006 and that might be his signature moment.

What draws him back his short prime (06-11) which was riddled with numerous injuries, ala Tracy McGrady, hence not making him a very reliable talent for a long stretch. It also shows in his peak of 2009, that he ran out of steam vs a Hawks team I thought they could have beaten.

I think in terms of historical status, he will probably get overshadowed by some of his peers (James, Bryant, Durant, etc...), but I would certainly say if he can play at a high level as is career runs down and contributes well to championship teams, he might be more revered like he's supposed to be.


Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.

I'd certainly say yes.

West had to be the 1b earlier on in his career to Elgin Baylor. Why should I not consider West to be same way with James ?

I also think West's mid-range game makes him even a better match with James than Wade does... and West had brilliant playoffs performances.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm also of the opinion that Wade's rating is just fine. Not overrated or underrated, really.

[AlonzoGOAT]

[QUOTE=NLZ]Iverson vs Wade
1x Most Valuable Player vs 0x Most Valuable Player
0x Finals MVP vs 1x Finals MVP
1x Rookie of the Year vs 0x Rookie of the Year
[B]11

[kNicKz]

SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was

:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[kNicKz]

Wade over Gervin, Iverson, Havlicek?!?!?

This shit is out of hand. This wade movement needs to slow down, this is getting on the line of blasphemous.

[plowking]

The League changed the rules for players like Wade.

So why has he done the best against the physical defenses of his time when compared to Kobe and Lebron?
Hes torched Boston and Detroit, both teams that Kobe and Lebron big time struggled against.

Its utterly hilarious that you claim Wade is somehow overrated and his career is based off one series.
- Hes quite easily the best finals performer of his generation. Kobe and Lebron don't come close. Wade has been all time great in 2 of his finals, and fantastic in his other one.
- Hes the only one not to have been bothered by the best defenses unlike Kobe and Lebron.
- He has 25/5/5 career averages. How in the world can you be overrated with those type of numbers over a 10 year career to date?
- Judging him by all defensive teams and all NBA teams? He's been robbed several times, but who could give a damn? You're going to see the same names on the teams regardless of how they play. All I know is prior to Lebron and Bosh coming, and with Coach Spo taking over, we were somehow a top 5 defensive team, and Wade was the damn anchor of the defense. Severely underrated for 2 or 3 years defensively.
- You're an idiot.

[AlonzoGOAT]

SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was

:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Are you serious? Pete is at best number 10 in point guards of all time on my list.

[red1]

West had to be the 1b earlier on in his career to Elgin Baylor. Why should I not consider West to be same way with James ?

I also think West's mid-range game makes him even a better match with James than Wade does... and West had brilliant playoffs performances.
You are seriously underrating lebron. Lebron >>> west or baylor. That miami team was struggling at the start of the season because the coaches couldn't decide who should handle the ball more since lbj/wade are clones. They ended up taking turns going ISO, if lebron is paired with those guys then he instantly becomes the #1 option on the team and does whatever the f*ck he wants with the ball.

[red1]

His second best player was beasley, beasley is the same exact player now and look how he's been doing. Those teams were devoid of talent, its a miracle that they even made the playoffs.

[Lebron23]

3rd greatest SG of all time.

[kNicKz]

This is why I hate the internet. People just look up averages and awards and draw conclusions. It's the equivalent of the BCS system for football. Watch these games and tell me wade now is better than George Gervin was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI

[EnoughSaid]

I'll share my full opinions tomorrow. But just wanted to say. I really hope D-Wade looks at himself in the mirror, realizing he's still an elite player, and goes to work on that jumper, goes to work on that post game, goes to work on some footwork issues. This dude is only 30 years old, and if he can improve in all of those assets of his game, this guy can still have a good 3-4 years of great play and possibly a Finals MVP or Two.

[kNicKz]

Apparently he's already the third greatest shooting guard of ALL TIME

:roll: :roll:

[EnoughSaid]

I just get so ****ing mad when thinking back to the 2011 Finals. Wade would be a Top 20 player right now, 3rd greatest SG, and people wouldn't be able to say shit. I just hope he can get on fire in the Playoffs one of these years and pull one out.

[red1]

This is why I hate the internet. People just look up averages and awards and draw conclusions. It's the equivalent of the BCS system for football. Watch these games and tell me wade now is better than George Gervin was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI
Listen, you haven't brought any reason or logic to the table. All you have done is complain. State your case and then we'll see if it matches with reality. And we are not talking about wade now. Even though he has been improving, it should be obvious enough that he hasn't been right.

[Money 23]

I just get so ****ing mad when thinking back to the 2011 Finals.
Blame LeBron for purposely, and visibly not trying.

It seemed like he caved even more when Wade called him out at half court and was yelling at him in I believe game 3.

[kNicKz]

Living off of free throws, crying to referees for entire games, and missing open jump shots is top 3 status

:applause: I've heard it all at this point

[red1]

Living off of free throws, crying to referees for entire games, and missing open jump shots is top 3 status

:applause: I've heard it all at this point
You literally just started watching basketball last year. This is the shit that happens to players when they are not healthy.

[kNicKz]

Listen, you haven't brought any reason or logic to the table. All you have done is complain. State your case and then we'll see if it matches with reality. And we are not talking about wade now. Even though he has been improving, it should be obvious enough that he hasn't been right.

I'm not typing a paragraph picking apart stats and debating which awards mean more than others. I gave you the names of people who I think are better and recommended looking into their footage/stats. If you want to then cool, if not, that works too.

[Money 23]

LMAO @ Gervin, Pistol Pete, and especially Havlicek being better players

[red1]

I'm not typing a paragraph picking apart stats and debating which awards mean more than others. I gave you the names of people who I think are better and recommended looking into their footage/stats. If you want to then cool, if not, that works too.
I haven't touched stats or awards, but what I did do was watch basketball before the 2011-2012 nba season.

[kNicKz]

You literally just started watching basketball last year. This is the shit that happens to players when they are not healthy.

I've been watching this dude since he played for Marquette. His 2006 finals was amazing. 2006-2011 mint. But playing well for 5 years doesn't get you into the top three....sorry

[kNicKz]

I haven't touched stats or awards, but what I did do was watch basketball before the 2011-2012 nba season.

right, because I don't believe dwayne wade is a top 3 shooting guard of all time I started watching basketball last year....

[red1]

I've been watching this dude since he played for Marquette. His 2006 finals was amazing. 2006-2011 mint. But playing well for 5 years doesn't get you into the top three....sorry
What he did in that span of time is more than enough to get him into the top 3. In fact with the exception of jerry west there is literally no one else who can even have a decent argument. Even jerry west is pushing it because his ranking is based relative to his awards and achievements, not how good he was. If we are ranking who is actually the best in terms of what they do on the court, then dwade is easily #3. Jerry west can also easily be ranked #3 based on career achievements and the work he put in during his era. Is that reasonable?

[Money 23]

George Gervin and Pistol Pete were Gilbert Arenas caliber players.

Amazing volume shooters / scorers, did little else, certainly played no defense and were stat padding losers (Gervin specifically)

[plowking]

This is why I hate the internet. People just look up averages and awards and draw conclusions. It's the equivalent of the BCS system for football. Watch these games and tell me wade now is better than George Gervin was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI


After watching this 4 minute highlight video, you've convinced me.

Gervin was great, Wade is greater.

[red1]

I joke around and call eric bledsoe the mini-lebron but in reality wade is actually mini-lebron. Does everything that lebron does for your team - scores, distributes, defends, everything.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Top ten overall , Top 5 in terms of peak play.

[kNicKz]

But right, Iverson exploding as an instant draft impact and dominating for 10 years leading the league in steals, points, and minutes MULTIPLE times and having an MVP makes him worse than wade

[kNicKz]

Top ten overall

I'd say he squeezes in here. But 3rd greatest of all time for 4-5 years of good play is a STRETCH. Guys have done what he did for way longer stretches

[red1]

But right, Iverson exploding as an instant draft impact and dominating for 10 years leading the league in steals, points, and minutes MULTIPLE times and having an MVP makes him worse than wade
Iverson was a beast but wade is superior to him in nearly every way.


I'd say he squeezes in here. But 3rd greatest of all time for 4-5 years of good play is a STRETCH. Guys have done what he did for way longer stretches
Can't rank jerry west so we'll leave him out for now. That said, no shooting guard other than Jordan was as good as wade in the finals, no shooting guards other than Jordan and Kobe were as good in the playoffs, and once again no shooting guards other than Jordan, Kobe, and arguably Mcgrady were as good in regular season. What else is there to discuss? Looks like we about covered everything.

[kNicKz]

:cheers:

[Rubio2Gasol]

Can't rank jerry west so we'll leave him out for now. That said, no shooting guard other than Jordan was as good as wade in the finals, no shooting guards other than Jordan and Kobe were as good in the playoffs, and once again no shooting guards other than Jordan, Kobe, and arguably Mcgrady were as good in regular season. What else is there to discuss? Looks like we about covered everything.

Factor in Sam Jones as well.

And he hasn't been better than Kobe in finals.

[onhcetum]

Lol'd @ "hard time putting him over jerry west"

Unless you are at least 50 years old (which I highly doubt you are), shut the **** up. How could u ever make a comparison one way or the other if u didn't even see the other guy play. Stats could only tell so much.

[Money 23]

Lol'd @ "hard time putting him over jerry west"
If you're going to try and take a shot @ me, don't be a [()] ... quote me directly.

And when did I claim to have seen West within context? I've seen clips, and read quite a bit about him.

I have studied the history of the game, and understand his historical impact. Thus my statement for acknowledging why others would or could have him ranked ahead of Wade, a player I have more intimate knowledge of within context.

Try again, hoe.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Personally he is no. 3 for me. Jordan and Kobe are clearly ahead of him, but I think he has a good case against West and Drexler. I have nothing against those who put him behind West, because its highly arguable.

[blablabla]

5th behind ai

[Sharmer]

Wade will probably going down as the best slasher and shot blocking SG.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Wade will probably going down as the best slasher and shot blocking SG.
He is already the best shot blocking SG this game has ever seen.

[Sharmer]

He is already the best shot blocking SG this game has ever seen.

I've been watching the NBA since 1992 and his the best shot blocking SG I've seen, can't compare to 80s or 70s SG because I never watched, other than replays.

[KOBE143]

Borderline top 10 at best.. Dude is overrated.. If not for the refs help, no one in their right mind will put this guy in the top 10.. Refs made him the player he was.. Even tho Wade is still in his prime, old ass Ray Allen is still better than him by far while playing 6th man and lesser minute.. People who put him in the top 5 or even near the top 5 are clearly trolling and should not be taken seriously..

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wade was a better player than Drexler and Iverson, no question in my mind. He's at least 4th for me, but I'm hesitant to put him over West, and really don't think I can do it. Wade's high points may warrant it such as his amazing peak season in '09, or his finals MVP in '06, but his whole prime from '06-'11 just isn't quite enough for me. It doesn't help that he had another excellent season interrupted in '07 and then one completely wasted in 2008 at 26 years old.

[HiphopRelated]

I'll share my full opinions tomorrow. But just wanted to say. I really hope D-Wade looks at himself in the mirror, realizing he's still an elite player, and goes to work on that jumper, goes to work on that post game, goes to work on some footwork issues. This dude is only 30 years old, and if he can improve in all of those assets of his game, this guy can still have a good 3-4 years of great play and possibly a Finals MVP or Two.
The only thing Wade isn't doing is shooting with volume...blame Ray Allen.

His jumper is at '09 levels right now so pretty much best of his career.

Lebron is the only one that hasn't changed his offensive role on the team, apart from going a bit more in the post

[LEFT4DEAD]

Borderline top 10 at best.. Dude is overrated.. If not for the refs help, no one in their right mind will put this guy in the top 10.. Refs made him the player he was.. Even tho Wade is still in his prime, old ass Ray Allen is still better than him by far while playing 6th man and lesser minute.. People who put him in the top 5 or even near the top 5 are clearly trolling and should not be taken seriously..
You mad cause his 2006 finals performance is better than any of Kobe's finals???:pimp:

[LamarOdom]

AI has no case over Wade, Wade is not only the much better player peak wise but also better resum

[WillC]

01 - Michael Jordan
02 - Kobe Bryant
03 - Jerry West
04 - Dwyane Wade
05 - George Gervin
06 - Allen Iverson
07 - Clyde Drexler
08 - Sam Jones

Honorable mention: Pete Maravich, Hal Greer, Bill Sharman, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Dennis Johnson, Earl Monroe, David Thompson, Joe Dumars, etc.

[Rysio]

anyone who has him over west or iverson or tmac is a moran. not even close.

[Rysio]

[QUOTE=LamarOdom]AI has no case over Wade, Wade is not only the much better player peak wise but also better resum

[HiphopRelated]

anyone who has him over west or iverson or tmac is a moran. not even close.
:coleman:

[blablabla]

:coleman:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/James_Moran_Official_Congressional_Portrait.jpg/220px-James_Moran_Official_Congressional_Portrait.jpg

[Burgz V2]

if he wins another ring he's number three in my book after kobe and MJ

Jerry West was a killer but the SG position since the 90s has been one of the hardest positions to excel at in the NBA. There have been many GOOD SGs, but not many superstar calibre ones.

there was a resurgence of the two guard position in the early 2000s (TMac, Kobe, VC, AI, Houston, Ray Allen etc) but the one thing they all lacked (save Kobe, and to a certain extent Ray) is longevity and sustained elite levels of performance.

If Wade can find a way to reinvent his game w/o the explosiveness he used to have and will continue to lose, he will definitely be no. 3

on a side note i think reggie should be in everyone's top 10. one of the most clutch players ive ever seen play in my lifetime

[red1]

anyone who has him over west or iverson or tmac is a moran. not even close.
:wtf:

[WillC]

if he wins another ring he's number three in my book after kobe and MJ

Jerry West was a killer but the SG position since the 90s has been one of the hardest positions to excel at in the NBA. There have been many GOOD SGs, but not many superstar calibre ones.

there was a resurgence of the two guard position in the early 2000s (TMac, Kobe, VC, AI, Houston, Ray Allen etc) but the one thing they all lacked (save Kobe, and to a certain extent Ray) is longevity and sustained elite levels of performance.

If Wade can find a way to reinvent his game w/o the explosiveness he used to have and will continue to lose, he will definitely be no. 3

on a side note i think reggie should be in everyone's top 10. one of the most clutch players ive ever seen play in my lifetime

Category --- West --- Wade
Points --- 25192 --- 15340
Rebounds --- 5366 --- 3087
Assists --- 6238 --- 3777
All-Stars --- 14 --- 8
All-NBA 1st --- 10 --- 2
Championships --- 1 --- 2
Finals --- 9 --- 3

It's not (and never will be) close. West was better than Wade.

I'm taking nothing away from Wade - I have him 4th all-time at SG - but he's no Jerry West.

[Dragonyeuw]

Wade has five legit seasons where he was a top five player in the league.


Yep. Clearly top 3 in 2009/10/11, has a case for top3 in 2007 before the injury, top 5 in 2006. He was basically top ten as early as his second season, he made a huge leap from his rookie year.

[kNicKz]

Wade is better than T-Mac all time. People can really only make a case about peak with T-mac. I wish he stayed healthy

[La Frescobaldi]

Wade is better than T-Mac all time. People can really only make a case about peak with T-mac. I wish he stayed healthy

yep. T Mac career was Waltonesque

[WillC]

yep. T Mac career was Waltonesque

Only without the NBA championship successes or NCAA titles.

Otherwise, just like it.

[Legends66NBA7]

You are seriously underrating lebron. Lebron >>> west or baylor. That miami team was struggling at the start of the season because the coaches couldn't decide who should handle the ball more since lbj/wade are clones. They ended up taking turns going ISO, if lebron is paired with those guys then he instantly becomes the #1 option on the team and does whatever the f*ck he wants with the ball.

LeBron > Wade too, but I'm saying that West could certainly be considered 1b, that's what I was trying to get at.

I also forgot to mention that West was 1b to Wilt Chamberlain in later career too. LeBron vs Wilt more comparable ?

And they still struggle today because of LeBron and Wade playing similar.


SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was

:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You're trying way to hard.

More like :oldlol: @ Pistol Pete being in the same conversation as Wade.


Wade over Gervin, Iverson, Havlicek?!?!?

Yup. Perhaps not Hondo because of his team success and he played longer, but I could certainly see that.


Apparently he's already the third greatest shooting guard of ALL TIME

:roll: :roll:

Maybe he won't be the 3rd greatest, but nothing wrong with being 4th either.


I just get so ****ing mad when thinking back to the 2011 Finals. Wade would be a Top 20 player right now, 3rd greatest SG, and people wouldn't be able to say shit. I just hope he can get on fire in the Playoffs one of these years and pull one out.

You do realize if we are playing the "what if ?" game...

West could have won more rings if Wilt Chamberlain, Elgin Baylor, and other key players made big shots or contributed better in certain finals. And he would certainly would get more praise for being a Top 2 SG and people wouldn't be able to say shit either, right ? :confusedshrug:

So, what ever did happen in the past happened, but the main thing is to keep track of level of play FIRST and Wade played very well.


LMAO @ Gervin, Pistol Pete, and especially Havlicek being better players

Why especially Hondo ?

Hondo > Gervin > Pete, all-time.


George Gervin and Pistol Pete were Gilbert Arenas caliber players.

Amazing volume shooters / scorers, did little else, certainly played no defense and were stat padding losers (Gervin specifically)

Pete was a great passer too, though. Infact, I believe that was his best attribute.


Lol'd @ "hard time putting him over jerry west"

Unless you are at least 50 years old (which I highly doubt you are), shut the **** up. How could u ever make a comparison one way or the other if u didn't even see the other guy play. Stats could only tell so much.

What do statements like this even mean ?

It's all relative to era. Do I discredit Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and all the legends from the 50's and so on because "I didn't watch them play" and just totally disregard what they did in the league and how they changed the game ?

Jerry West deserves the respect of his peers, fans, and what he did for the game. He's the logo for a reason.

[Whoah10115]

Havlicek is a SF.

[TheBigVeto]

He's #26.

[Legends66NBA7]

Havlicek is a SF.

I think he was talking about all-time ranking in general, not just SG ranking.

[La Frescobaldi]

Havlicek is a SF.

Hondo was a swing man, played a lot of games at what today would be called the 2. There wasn't really a shooting guard like it's called today, and there wasn't a point guard either. Not by the names. Today those guards would be called combo guards.

Point guard was a name used in college for a long time before anybody started using that in the pros, and it's false to say the name started with Magic Johnson, as I have seen around on boards. People were using that name around the NBA as early as maybe '75 or '77. No question that it really caught on with Magic though, maybe you could say he popularized it.

But anyhow, Havlicek was a swing man by any name of any era. He played a lot of frontcourt and he played a lot of backcourt.

In many ways, today's NBA is based on the John Havlicek model of player, more than any other single player, except maybe the sort of "cult of the next Mike Jordan" that's out there. Not because Havlicek is necessarily a guy the players or the fans respect or emulate or even heard of, but because that's the most effective way to play basketball. And the coaches and GMs all know it and look for that type of player.

[fpliii]

Havlicek is a SF.

Gervin too...

[Whoah10115]

Gervin too...



I've wondered about this...but looking at that Spurs roster, it seems he played a lot more at SG than he did at SF.



I think he was talking about all-time ranking in general, not just SG ranking.


:hammerhead:

[Whoah10115]

Hondo was a swing man, played a lot of games at what today would be called the 2. There wasn't really a shooting guard like it's called today, and there wasn't a point guard either. Not by the names. Today those guards would be called combo guards.

Point guard was a name used in college for a long time before anybody started using that in the pros, and it's false to say the name started with Magic Johnson, as I have seen around on boards. People were using that name around the NBA as early as maybe '75 or '77. No question that it really caught on with Magic though, maybe you could say he popularized it.

But anyhow, Havlicek was a swing man by any name of any era. He played a lot of frontcourt and he played a lot of backcourt.

In many ways, today's NBA is based on the John Havlicek model of player, more than any other single player, except maybe the sort of "cult of the next Mike Jordan" that's out there. Not because Havlicek is necessarily a guy the players or the fans respect or emulate or even heard of, but because that's the most effective way to play basketball. And the coaches and GMs all know it and look for that type of player.



I did not know that about the PG position. I know guys were often referred to as lead guards but I didn't know the name had caught on so late.


Interesting on Havlicek. I've heard this before, him as a swingman. From what I've seen, I'd certainly consider him a SF tho. But about him being, essentially, the model for the prototypical swingman or wing player..that's certainly interesting.

[fpliii]

I've wondered about this...but looking at that Spurs roster, it seems he played a lot more at SG than he did at SF.





:hammerhead:

Not sure that I agree, but I suppose that's a defensible position. Then again, there really hasn't been much differentiation between the two wing positions in quite some time (since the 50s/60s, when teams would typically line up one offensive player and one defensive player at each of G/F), so I guess the distinction's not terribly important.

[Whoah10115]

Not sure that I agree, but I suppose that's a defensible position. Then again, there really hasn't been much differentiation between the two wing positions in quite some time (since the 50s/60s, when teams would typically line up one offensive player and one defensive player at each of G/F), so I guess the distinction's not terribly important.



It's not always hugely important, but I certainly there is a difference. I think someone like Thabo could play SF just fine, as he doesn't do much off screens or anything. He's obviously not a scorer and tho his handles don't suck he doesn't create anything. He can just run to a corner and spot up and he'll guard 1-3, depending on where the best player is. He could do what Bowen did, but I think Bowen was a terrible fit at SG, as there was no spacing there or a partner for Parker.


Hell, look how Iguodala looks playing the 2 so far...that's not the only thing wrong with him, but I think I don't think it helps.

[Pacers4ever]

SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was

:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Did people miss this? How can you take this retard seriously :facepalm


Has to still be butthurt from the way wade would rape them the past decade.

[Legends66NBA7]

Did people miss this? How can you take this retard seriously :facepalm

I responded on the first post, this page. Can't let shit like that slide by, even if it was trolling. But after reading this whole thread, I really don't think that guy is trolling rather it's baffling how much he's disrespecting Wade by think Pete freaking Maravich is in the same breath.

So no, I don't think anybody will take him seriously with some of the comments he made in this thread.

:oldlol:

[kNicKz]

Insidehoops: Where it's an accepted belief that pistol pete= gilbert arenas

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DMV2]

Pistol Pete? :oldlol: Other than stat-padding, what did he ever accomplished in the playoffs?

He was the original T-Mac; 4 playoff appearances (three 1st round exit when he was a star, 2nd Round exit when he was a benchwarmer)

EDIT: ...the guy has a T-Mac avatar too. LMAO.

[Pacers4ever]

I responded on the first post, this page. Can't let shit like that slide by, even if it was trolling. But after reading this whole thread, I really don't think that guy is trolling rather it's baffling how much he's disrespecting Wade by think Pete freaking Maravich is in the same breath.

So no, I don't think anybody will take him seriously with some of the comments he made in this thread.

:oldlol:
I think him being knicks fans and the post I've read in the past he's pretty much in general a heat hater, which makes sense if you take that rivalry seriously.


But when hate ****s up your logic into thinking pete > wade then it is time to pop them pills.

[Legends66NBA7]

Insidehoops: Where it's an accepted belief that pistol pete= gilbert arenas

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Well yeah, I disagree with that completely and I brought that up in my post with Swoosh, though he said he's Gilbert Arenas caliber not equal... and that is because Pete was one the best passers ever and it was better than his scoring. Arenas was a true chucker.

But with all that said, Wade > Pistol and it's not close, I hope you were trolling man. :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

He was the original T-Mac; 4 playoff appearances (three 1st round exit when he was a star, 2nd Round exit when he was a benchwarmer)

EDIT: ...the guy has a T-Mac avatar too. LMAO.

I will give McGrady this, he was clearly a better playoff performer than Pistol Pete.

If you took away their bench years, McGrady has that by a mile for what it's worth.

[bizil]

I got D Wade #4 GOAT SG behind MJ, Kobe, and West. I think he has a great shot at passing West for the #3 slot down the road.

[bizil]

Hondo was a swing man, played a lot of games at what today would be called the 2. There wasn't really a shooting guard like it's called today, and there wasn't a point guard either. Not by the names. Today those guards would be called combo guards.

Point guard was a name used in college for a long time before anybody started using that in the pros, and it's false to say the name started with Magic Johnson, as I have seen around on boards. People were using that name around the NBA as early as maybe '75 or '77. No question that it really caught on with Magic though, maybe you could say he popularized it.

But anyhow, Havlicek was a swing man by any name of any era. He played a lot of frontcourt and he played a lot of backcourt.

In many ways, today's NBA is based on the John Havlicek model of player, more than any other single player, except maybe the sort of "cult of the next Mike Jordan" that's out there. Not because Havlicek is necessarily a guy the players or the fans respect or emulate or even heard of, but because that's the most effective way to play basketball. And the coaches and GMs all know it and look for that type of player.

U make an interesting observation about Hondo. And frankly I agree with u! Hondo at 6'5 was capable of playing AND defending PG to SF. He was also a great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder (for a perimter guy) all in one. Before Hondo, I can't really think of player as well rounded. Even with Big O, I don't think his defense qualifies as great. And even though Big O could play virutally PG-PF, he's known as the original big and dominant PG. Hondo was a SF or swingman so when u break it down like that, he was TRULY the precursor in many ways to guys like MJ, Kobe, Hill, Bron, Pippen etc. I do think Big O, Baylor, Hondo, and Barry were ahead of their time BIG TIME in the 60's and 70's.

It wasn't until 10-15 years later minimum that u saw players in that 6'5 to 6'7 range or even taller with that kind of talent more commonly. And even historically, u don't see many players as dominant and versatile as Hondo. Guys took what Hondo did the next level, MJ included. MJ was more similar to Hondo than he ever was to Magic or Bird. It was almost as if MJ took Dr. J's aerial assault, Gervin' scoring skillset, and combined with Hondo's epic all around versatility on both sides of the ball. Even today, Bron in many ways is evolved version in many ways to what Hondo brought to the table.

[CavaliersFTW]

U make an interesting observation about Hondo. And frankly I agree with u! Hondo at 6'5 was capable of playing AND defending PG to SF. He was also a great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder (for a perimter guy) all in one. Before Hondo, I can't really think of player as well rounded. Even with Big O, I don't think he defense qualifies as great. And even though Big O could play virutally PG-PF, he's known as the original big and dominant PG. Hondo was a SF or swingman so when u break it down like that, he was TRULY the precursor in many ways to guys like MJ, Kobe, Hill, Bron, Pippen etc. No, wrong... Based on testomony of actual players, what your suggesting doesn't sound like the reality of how things were at all, it sounds like this is nothing but revisionist history. The original medium sized "do it all" basketball player that could play both backcourt or frontcourt, and matchup against guards or forwards always traces back to Elgin Baylor who came into the scene in the late 50's several years before Hondo, and made far far greater impact. Baylor changed the game of basketball forever and revolutionized the impact of what players his size could do. It was not John Havlicek who set the mold for future "complete" players, it was Elgin Baylor.

[La Frescobaldi]

No, wrong... Based on testomony of actual players, what your suggesting doesn't sound like the reality of how things were at all, it sounds like this is nothing but revisionist history. The original medium sized "do it all" basketball player that could play both backcourt or frontcourt, and matchup against guards or forwards always traces back to Elgin Baylor who came into the seen in the late 50's several years before Hondo, and made far far greater impact. Baylor changed the game of basketball forever and revolutionized the impact of what players his size could do. It was not John Havlicek who set the mold for future "complete" players, it was Elgin Baylor.
All true.

But Hondo is, to me, the prototype or model because of his killer instinct, will to win, utter clutchness and above all.... He was completely missing what Baylor had on the other end of the court - atrocious matador defense.

[bizil]

No, wrong... Based on testomony of actual players, what your suggesting doesn't sound like the reality of how things were at all, it sounds like this is nothing but revisionist history. The original medium sized "do it all" basketball player that could play both backcourt or frontcourt, and matchup against guards or forwards always traces back to Elgin Baylor who came into the scene in the late 50's several years before Hondo, and made far far greater impact. Baylor changed the game of basketball forever and revolutionized the impact of what players his size could do. It was not John Havlicek who set the mold for future "complete" players, it was Elgin Baylor.

Baylor was not a point forward kind of player. And Baylor wasn't a lockdown defender capable of locking down PG-SF. Baylor set the tone for the freak athlete scoring machine. Who also happened to be a good defender, great rebounder, and good passer. That mold of player to me is the blueprint for Dr.J. Or in terms of freak athletic ability and alpha dog scoring ability it also set the tone for MJ, Kobe, Bron, Drexler, Hawkins, etc.

Hondo was more technically sound than Baylor. And Hondo was GREAT at scoring, passing, boards, and defense all in one. I don't think Baylor was GREAT at all four facets, especially on a technical level like Hondo. I'm not saying Baylor wasn't a very good maybe great all around threat. But Hondo could flat out play AND defend PG-SF.

I believe peak value wise that Baylor is the better player. And in the evolution of bball was more important. But Hondo in my opinion was MORE of precursor than Baylor was to the swingmen who came later down the road. The responsibilities guys like MJ, Pippen, T Mac, Hill, Kobe, Drexler, Penny, Bron, etc. had on the court were more similar to Hondo type duties and versatility than Baylor type guys like a Dr.J or Hawkins. And Baylor of all intensive purposes was a SF-PF as opposed to a pure swingman like Hondo. Or a guy like MJ who was a SG but played plenty of PG and SF. In terms of technical brilliance and versatility for medium size players, Big O , Barry, and Hondo were more important in my book than Baylor was.

[BlueandGold]

This is all everyone needs to know

1. MJ

2. Kobe



3. everyone else

[bizil]

This is all everyone needs to know

1. MJ

2. Kobe



3. everyone else

I think those two are clearly 1-2. After that the debates can begin. I'm inclined to think that West is 3, Wade 4, and Drexler 5. But after that u have guys like AI, Gervin, Pete, Pearl, Ray Ray, Sam Jones, Miller, and Dumars who all have a case for top 10. And don't sleep on the HOF type resumes guys like Vince, Bing, and Richmond put up. Guys like T Mac and David Thompson could have really shook up the ratings if it weren't for injuries or drugs. Both I think were looking like top 5-6 material and each in their own way were redefining the SG spot at the time they were going great.

[STATUTORY]

I'm the biggest wade fan you will ever meet but I'm also an objective bball fan and there's no argument that wade is even in the same ballpark as Kobe

[red1]

I'm the biggest wade fan you will ever meet but I'm also an objective bball fan and there's no argument that wade is even in the same ballpark as Kobe
In terms of longevity, no he is not in the same ballpark as kobe. Then again who really is.

[STATUTORY]

In terms of longevity, no he is not in the same ballpark as kobe. Then again who really is.

in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.

And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe

[TheNaturalWR]

in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.

And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe

I'm a Wade fan that thinks he's been complete ass for the past 1.5 seasons but in terms of peak and prime Wade DEFINITELY measures up to Kobe. Peak is a toss-up.

[The Mamba]

in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.

And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe
Stop saying you're a Wade fan, haha you're clearly not. Fooling no one.

Wade's peak stands up, but obviously not in longevity terms.

[PJR]

in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.

And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe

Niqqa stop lying. U one of the biggest Bryant fanatics on this shit. Trying to front :oldlol:

[red1]

in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.

And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe
Hell no. From 06-11 he was just as good as prime kobe. Kobe is top 10 because of his amazing elite play for a long period of time, not because of his peak play.

[swi7ch]

Top 25 only because he won FMVP. If he didn't, Top 50. His resume went down after becoming LBJ's sidekick... and then becoming the Heat's 3rd most importantn player this year.

[Sakkreth]

MJ


Kobe
West


Wade
Drexler

[LEFT4DEAD]

in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.

And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe
Maybe if you stop repeating this same bullsh!t somebody would take you seriously. You are one of the biggest Kobetards on this board.

And yeah, in terms of longevity Kobe is better, but Im taking Wade 08/09 season over any of Kobe's.

[9erempiree]

Maybe if you stop repeating this same bullsh!t somebody would take you seriously. You are one of the biggest Kobetards on this board.

And yeah, in terms of longevity Kobe is better, but Im taking Wade 08/09 season over any of Kobe's.

You take Wade's season over Kobe's championship years?

There is a reason why Sonic fans lost their team. Not very intelligent to at least go and support their team.

There's a reason when Sonic Gate movie came out and they tried to get former players to say something good about the organization, they declined.

Ray Allen wanted no part of it, Durant said no comment and Westbrook said he's happy at OKC.

:facepalm

[swag2011]

Kobe's peak>>> Wade's peak
Kobe's prime>>> Wade's prime ( although it's close)
Kobe's Longevity>>>Wade's Longevity

I don't even understand why this is a debate. Even D.Wade will tell you Kobe was better than him.

I'd put Wade probably 4th, although it can be argued he's 3rd.

[DatAsh]

Kobe's peak>>> Wade's peak
Kobe's prime>>> Wade's prime ( although it's close)
Kobe's Longevity>>>Wade's Longevity

I don't even understand why this is a debate. Even D.Wade will tell you Kobe was better than him.

I'd put Wade probably 4th, although it can be argued he's 3rd.

Kobe and Wade's peak's are very comparable. Though I agree that Kobe's peak is slightly better, I don't think ">>>" is at all warranted.

Kobe's Peak
28/6/5 on 58% TS with great defense

Wade's Peak
30/5/8 on FG 57% TS with solid defense

[LEFT4DEAD]

You take Wade's season over Kobe's championship years?

There is a reason why Sonic fans lost their team. Not very intelligent to at least go and support their team.

There's a reason when Sonic Gate movie came out and they tried to get former players to say something good about the organization, they declined.

Ray Allen wanted no part of it, Durant said no comment and Westbrook said he's happy at OKC.

:facepalm
http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/wtf+is+that+_093ac81107dfc8fe4901cc7203659446.gif

[Jacks3]

Kobe by 2001 was a better payer than Wade has ever been.

2003 Kobe shits on any version of Wade.

[Jacks3]

I'm the biggest wade fan you will ever meet but I'm also an objective bball fan and there's no argument that wade is even in the same ballpark as Kobe
truth.

[9erempiree]

Here we go with that peak vs peak argument again.

:facepalm

[Young X]

Kobe and Wade's peak's are very comparable. Though I agree that Kobe's peak is slightly better, I don't think ">>>" is at all warranted.

Kobe's Peak
28/6/5 on 58% TS with great defense

Wade's Peak
30/5/8 on FG 57% TS with solid defense
Not to mention that Wade led his team to a title, just like Kobe, was All NBA 1st team, just like Kobe, and was top 3 in the league, just like Kobe. There is nothing that separates Wade from Kobe and Lebron as PLAYERS besides them both winning MVP's (where Wade was 3rd in voting right behind them).

[che guevara]

George Gervin and Pistol Pete were Gilbert Arenas caliber players.

Amazing volume shooters / scorers, did little else, certainly played no defense and were stat padding losers (Gervin specifically)
Pistol was easily a bigger loser than Gervin, and a markedly worse player too. Pistol consistently submarined his team's offensive efficiency, and he's also one of the worst defenders in history.

Calling him a Gilbert Arenas caliber player is being incredibly generous; in his prime, Pistol was sub .500 EVERY SINGLE YEAR OF HIS CAREER aside from 1973, the only year he ever won 40+ games. Pistol was the definition of a ball hogging, cancerous loser. The craziest thing about him, is that his rookie season, he absolutely KILLED the Hawks - their record plummeted from 48 wins to 36, despite the rest team being completely intact from the previous year. There's good evidence that he was a negative impact player.

[blablabla]

Pistol was easily a bigger loser than Gervin, and a markedly worse player too. Pistol consistently submarined his team's offensive efficiency, and he's also one of the worst defenders in history.

Calling him a Gilbert Arenas caliber player is being incredibly generous; in his prime, Pistol was sub .500 EVERY SINGLE YEAR OF HIS CAREER aside from 1973, the only year he ever won 40+ games. Pistol was the definition of a ball hogging, cancerous loser. The craziest thing about him, is that his rookie season, he absolutely KILLED the Hawks - their record plummeted from 48 wins to 36, despite the rest team being completely intact from the previous year. There's good evidence that he was a negative impact player.
his teammates on the hawks hated him because he was earning much more money than them despite still being a rookie

[Money 23]

Not to mention that Wade led his team to a title, just like Kobe, was All NBA 1st team, just like Kobe, and was top 3 in the league, just like Kobe. There is nothing that separates Wade from Kobe and Lebron as PLAYERS besides them both winning MVP's (where Wade was 3rd in voting right behind them).
That's essentially the point.

I don't think there is a whole lot of distinction between all these guys, apart from Kobe's 5 championships and LeBron's 3 MVP awards.

In terms of statistical, on court peak performance and play ... Wade's best is absolutely comparable with Kobe's and even LeBron's best.

The difference is marginal at best, and can be argued either way, I suppose. Insecure Kobe kids take it too far. Saying "Kobe's 2003 shits on ANY version of Wade" ... absolutely false.

They make it sound like the difference between Kobe and Wade, is as great as the difference between MJ and Reggie Miller. It really is a close race between them in terms of peak play, and prime play.

Kobe has the longevity, the MVP award, 1 more Finals MVP and 3 more rings. Thus, he gets the nod on the pyramid.


Pistol was easily a bigger loser than Gervin, and a markedly worse player too. Pistol consistently submarined his team's offensive efficiency, and he's also one of the worst defenders in history.

Calling him a Gilbert Arenas caliber player is being incredibly generous; in his prime, Pistol was sub .500 EVERY SINGLE YEAR OF HIS CAREER aside from 1973, the only year he ever won 40+ games. Pistol was the definition of a ball hogging, cancerous loser. The craziest thing about him, is that his rookie season, he absolutely KILLED the Hawks - their record plummeted from 48 wins to 36, despite the rest team being completely intact from the previous year. There's good evidence that he was a negative impact player.
I know, good post with more elaboration than I had time to go into. What I meant is their games might be slightly different, but all (Arenas, Maravich, Gervin) were entertaining volume scoring LOSERS in their true essence. Who rarely impacted the game in areas more than scoring.

Don't get me wrong, Pistol had passing skills, pre-cursor flair that the mainstream didn't pick up on until Magic Johnson, but he NEVER made teammates truly better.

The point I was making went right over people's heads.

Not only is Wade's game better than both Pistol and Iceman (possibly the two coolest NBA nicknames of all-time) but Wade is a fact proven winner. Saying those two are better than Wade is BEYOND ridiculous.

[KenneBell]

I've got him ranked 4th all-time SG.

Can't put him above West because of West's longevity and his elite play at SG. Jordan, Kobe, and West were considered #1 at their position for much of their careers. Arguably all 3 had a loooong stretch of being the top SG in the NBA or landing on the All-NBA 1st Team.

I can't say the same for Wade.

[Legends66NBA7]

I know, good post with more elaboration than I had time to go into. What I meant is their games might be slightly different, but all (Arenas, Maravich, Gervin) were entertaining volume scoring LOSERS in their true essence. Who rarely impacted the game in areas more than scoring.

Don't get me wrong, Pistol had passing skills, pre-cursor flair that the mainstream didn't pick up on until Magic Johnson, but he NEVER made teammates truly better.

The point I was making went right over people's heads.

My only grip with that is Pistol was a better passer than his scoring. Yes, I've heard he was very individualistic, much like what I've read about Wilt. I think a better comparison with Pete would have been Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis.

[WillC]

I've got him ranked 4th all-time SG.

Can't put him above West because of West's longevity and his elite play at SG. Jordan, Kobe, and West were considered #1 at their position for much of their careers. Arguably all 3 had a loooong stretch of being the top SG in the NBA or landing on the All-NBA 1st Team.

I can't say the same for Wade.

Well said.

[La Frescobaldi]

Wade sitting around #4...