Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

[LamarOdom]

At age 34 Jordan was in his last season with the Bulls Kobe in his current, the season is still young so a lot can happen with Kobe's season, but the little older members here who was best at this point? I never saw MJ play in his Bulls days except some old clips so I can't say more than what I see on the their respective stats.

A thing I noticed instantly is Kobe's terrible turnovers and MJ's 3pt shooting was terrible. MJ's fg% was at an alltime low for him at that point while Kobe is currently shooting a career high.'

Kobe has been a bit lazy on D how was Mike?

http://i.imgur.com/WjZrA.png
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[STATUTORY]

chucker put up 23 shots per game



enuff said

[Money 23]

First of all you have the wrong season, MJ's b-day comes at the middle of the season. So you're supposed to compare it to the 1996 - 1997 season. Kobe's only been 34 since August.

MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense.

MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe, in order to save energy for a true agenda to score points.

MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg the way Kobe so visibly does.

He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player.

MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't)

He played very good defense, as proof watch him in the 1997 playoffs shut down Washington Bullet's best and fastest player, Rod Strickland (put him in a straight jacket)

MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him.

MJ (34) > Kobe (34)

[G-Funk]

Thing that stand out the most is 3P attempts, Kobe is averaging 5.7 and Jordan just 1.5

[LamarOdom]

Team wise MJ better team to this point, Kobe only got a half healthy Dwight and a Gasol with knee problems who also has missed a lot of games, Nash is also out.

When they all are healthy Lakers team > Bulls team but not right now I think.

[nightprowler10]

First of all you have the wrong season, MJ's b-day comes at the middle of the season. So you're supposed to compare it to the 1996 - 1997 season. Kobe's only been 34 since August.

MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense.

MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe, in order to save energy for a true agenda to score points.

MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg the way Kobe so visibly does.

He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player.

MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't)

He played very good defense, as proof watch him in the 1997 playoffs shut down Washington Bullet's best and fastest player, Rod Strickland (put him in a straight jacket)

MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him.

MJ (34) > Kobe (34)

[/thread]

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan was basically 35 years old in 1998, not 34 (he started the season 34 and 9 months old and turned 35 mid-way through the season). He also didn't have anywhere near the help around him Kobe does (especially with Pippen missing half the season) and had a cracked knuckle and torn ligament on the index finger of his shooting hand, which is why his shooting was terrible over the first 10-12 games (41% FG/69% FT over that span as compared to 48% FG/83% FT the remaining 68+ games).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Imagine that Kobe's numbers are right there with Jordan's

And the defensive ratings of the league...

2013 105.0
1998 105.0

What a coincidence:rolleyes:

[G-Funk]

MJ did not play defense, the hell you talking about lol, Pippen says Hi

[swag2011]

First of all you have the wrong season, MJ's b-day comes at the middle of the season. So you're supposed to compare it to the 1996 - 1997 season. Kobe's only been 34 since August.

MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense.

MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe, in order to save energy for a true agenda to score points.

MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg the way Kobe so visibly does.

He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player.

MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't)

He played very good defense, as proof watch him in the 1997 playoffs shut down Washington Bullet's best and fastest player, Rod Strickland (put him in a straight jacket)

MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him.

MJ (34) > Kobe (34)

this is all you're doing ---> :cry:

[Vertical-24]

Kobe is playing fantastic basketball but there are a few things that aren't so fantastic along with it.

1. Turnovers - Kobe has been constantly turning the ball over left and right. This has been happening a lot during his drives to the basket. Perhaps due to lack of athleticism and protection. Maybe its just me but I feel like he's been stripped more this season (and this early in a season, at that) than any portion of his career. He never used to get cookie'd as much as he has been of late. Perhaps this because of his increased ball-handling duties which is way to much for him. This part of his game will probably improve with the return of Steve Nash. Jordan barely had Pippen that season ('98) and turned the ball over much less.

2. Defense - Kobe had begun sagging off of D since around 09, but would occasionally lock in when he needed to. These days he has been extremely soft when it comes to defense. He's contesting less these days, locking in less and less, and just doesn't seem focused. He tries to roam on defense like he used to earlier in his career but he's too slow returning to his man and gets burned so much. Jordan was still a solid defender at 34.


These two things are big differentials between him and Jordan at age 34. In terms of scoring, Kobe was just as good, if not better. In terms of the other intangibles of the game, I would give it to Jordan. Jordan was the better player at 34, albeit slightly. Kobe still has a whole lot of season left for us to judge. He could surprise or he could disappoint. And besides team success, he's been surprising time and time again.

[juju151111]

Imagine that Kobe's numbers are right there with Jordan's

And the defensive ratings of the league...

2013 105.0
1998 105.0

What a coincidence:rolleyes:
Mj had a cracked knuckle at the start of the season and Mj was 35 that season. Pippen and Rodman miss a lot of the season and Mj was still on pace to lead them to like 55 wins.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Watch Kobe this season and tell me with a straight face that he's as good as this player: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzwS62NR9k

Come on dudes... :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Mj had a cracked knuckle at the start of the season and Mj was 35 that season. Pippen and Rodman miss a lot of the season and Mj was still on pace to lead them to like 55 wins.

Wow a cracked knuckle is he ok?????

Bulls won on the strength of their D (3rd in the league) and Jordan was 7th on the team in defensive rating. :confusedshrug:

[DonDadda59]

Probably not a good idea to compare an entire season (that ended with an MVP, championship, and finals MVP) with a 25 game sample, especially considering Kobe was shooting 53% like 3 weeks ago and his team is 3 games under .500. Kobe's shooting % will be around his normal 45% range and if everyone is healthy on the Lakers, his scoring will dip. If it doesn't and everyone is in the lineup, look for the Lakers to struggle to make the playoffs.

[Bandito]

Jordan was basically 35 years old in 1998, not 34 (he started the season 34 and 9 months old and turned 35 mid-way through the season). He also didn't have anywhere near the help around him Kobe does (especially with Pippen missing half the season) and had a cracked knuckle and torn ligament on the index finger of his shooting hand, which is why his shooting was terrible over the first 10-12 games (41% FG/69% FT over that span as compared to 48% FG/83% FT the remaining 68+ games).
isn't Kobe going to be 35 this season too? Either way stats means squat when his team is losing while putting good numbers. Jordan was good but Kobe is good too. He is just giving props to a good player by comparing him to another good player. Why so insecure bub?

[Money 23]

isn't Kobe going to be 35 this season too?
No, he just turned 34 in August.

The NBA isn't active from late June until late September

MJ put up the same offensive stats, better defender, better leader, DRAMATICALLY superior team success.

No contest. Plus, we'll see where Kobe's numbers end up by the end of this season, which still isn't even half way over.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

First of all you have the wrong season, MJ's b-day comes at the middle of the season. So you're supposed to compare it to the 1996 - 1997 season. Kobe's only been 34 since August. Correct, but Kobe also didn't take any breaks from the NBA. There's a lot of milage on those 34 year old legs.


MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense. MJ called his three 7 foot big men 21 feet of shit. Great f**king leadership. Way to inspire your teammates.


MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe, in order to save energy for a true agenda to score points. LA's problems on defense have more to do with a new coach implementing a new system. It takes time for everyone to get on the same page and know where they are supposed to be. This comparison is apples and oranges and it's very hard to measure.



MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg the way Kobe so visibly does. Kobe (21 shots per game, 5 assists), MJ (23 shots per game, 3.5 assists) How does that equate to Kobe forcing the issue to get to 30ppg and MJ not?Also, MJ didn't put up the "same stats". They are close but Kobe is slightly better in several of the important ones.


He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player. These two "points" that you made are absurd and not based in fact.


MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't) Kobe has been ultra supportive of Gasol even though Pau has essentially shit the bed for the last 2.25 years. Kobe was just saying that Pau has to adjust and that is a very fair and accurate statement.


He played very good defense, as proof watch him in the 1997 playoffs shut down Washington Bullet's best and fastest player, Rod Strickland (put him in a straight jacket) Rod Strickland, lol. He isn't exactly Allen Iverson.



MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him. MJ was leading a team full of guys that had been together for many years playing for the greatest coach of all time. Kobe has a bunch of new teammates, a new coach, a new system, and several key players either out of the lineup or not yet playing at 100%.


MJ (34) > Kobe (34) MJ (34) roughly = Kobe (34)

You wont catch me arguing that Kobe is a better overall player than MJ but if Kobe (21 shots per game, 5 assists) is a shot jacker who doesn't pass the ball enough then what does that make MJ (23 shots per game, 3.5 assists)?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

What were their respective teams' win-loss record after 25 games?:oldlol:

Bulls: 16-9 (would end December 1997 @ 20-10)
Fakers: 11-14

You be the judge...

[Heilige]

At age 34 Jordan was in his last season with the Bulls Kobe in his current, the season is still young so a lot can happen with Kobe's season, but the little older members here who was best at this point? I never saw MJ play in his Bulls days except some old clips so I can't say more than what I see on the their respective stats.

A thing I noticed instantly is Kobe's terrible turnovers and MJ's 3pt shooting was terrible. MJ's fg% was at an alltime low for him at that point while Kobe is currently shooting a career high.'

Kobe has been a bit lazy on D how was Mike?

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Michael Jordan was 35 in his last season with the Chicago Bulls. He turned 35 in Feb. 1998

[LamarOdom]

Okay Mike was 35 I get it enough with one of y'all to post it, he was around 5 months older than Kobe so they were basically the same age.


What were their respective teams' win-loss record after 25 games?:oldlol:

Bulls: 16-9 (would end December 1997 @ 20-10)
Fakers: 11-14

You be the judge...

Lakers have had three coaches this season and starters out or injured, but mostly it's Lakers new coaches.

[Heilige]

First of all you have the wrong season, MJ's b-day comes at the middle of the season. So you're supposed to compare it to the 1996 - 1997 season. Kobe's only been 34 since August.

MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense.

MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe, in order to save energy for a true agenda to score points.

MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg the way Kobe so visibly does.

He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player.

MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't)

He played very good defense, as proof watch him in the 1997 playoffs shut down Washington Bullet's best and fastest player, Rod Strickland (put him in a straight jacket)

MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him.

MJ (34) > Kobe (34)


Have you watched Kobe's interview with Stephen A. Smith?

He was actually very supportive of Gasol and his teammates. Please watch it if you haven't. Think it is one of his best interviews he has ever done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STt32vWt20c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvKgswUiwWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIqgOz_x8oI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSOpNu7c_Xg

[G-Funk]

Correct, but Kobe also didn't take any breaks from the NBA. There's a lot of milage on those 34 year old legs.

MJ called his three 7 foot big men 21 feet of shit. Great f**king leadership. Way to inspire your teammates.

LA's problems on defense have more to do with a new coach implementing a new system. It takes time for everyone to get on the same page and know where they are supposed to be. This comparison is apples and oranges and it's very hard to measure.


Kobe (21 shots per game, 5 assists), MJ (23 shots per game, 3.5 assists) How does that equate to Kobe forcing the issue to get to 30ppg and MJ not?Also, MJ didn't put up the "same stats". They are close but Kobe is slightly better in several of the important ones.

These two "points" that you made are absurd and not based in fact.

Kobe has been ultra supportive of Gasol even though Pau has essentially shit the bed for the last 2.25 years. Kobe was just saying that Pau has to adjust and that is a very fair and accurate statement.

Rod Strickland, lol. He isn't exactly Allen Iverson.


MJ was leading a team full of guys that had been together for many years playing for the greatest coach of all time. Kobe has a bunch of new teammates, a new coach, a new system, and several key players either out of the lineup or not yet playing at 100%.

MJ (34) roughly = Kobe (34)

You wont catch me arguing that Kobe is a better overall player than MJ but if Kobe (21 shots per game, 5 assists) is a shot jacker who doesn't pass the ball enough then what does that make MJ (23 shots per game, 3.5 assists)?



Ether

[9erempiree]

Jordan was a huge liability on defense that year. Stamina wasn't as good as Kobe's either.

Not saying that Kobe is great on defense this year but MJ certainly wasn't any better.

Kobe has more turnovers probably because he has to handle the ball in a run-you-to-the-ground system which produces more possessions and possibly more turnovers.

Also, I have always said MJ was the original "chucker".

[9erempiree]

MJ really was on his last legs. If he didn't take those 2 years off to rest he would have never hit his 2nd 3peat.

Look just how bad MJ was at free throws. He never hit 80 percent that year. Freaking free throws.:facepalm

He never said he was officially retiring but the media and Bob Costas basically knew he was done and hinted that he should leave because of his play.

[DonDadda59]

MJ really was on his last legs. If he didn't take those 2 years off to rest he would have never hit his 2nd 3peat.

Look just how bad MJ was at free throws. He never hit 80 percent that year. Freaking free throws.:facepalm

He never said he was officially retiring but the media and Bob Costas basically knew he was done and hinted that he should leave because of his play.

So an MJ on his last legs was still good enough to win MVP, a championship, Finals MVP, scoring title, and even an ASG MVP?

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lltzgnHi5F1qzib3wo1_400.jpg

[chazzy]

Gasol is milking his "tendinitis" a vague injury in of itself that EVERYONE deals with, because he's discontent due to Kobe's piss poor leadership abilities.
:oldlol: Reach harder

[juju151111]

MJ really was on his last legs. If he didn't take those 2 years off to rest he would have never hit his 2nd 3peat.

Look just how bad MJ was at free throws. He never hit 80 percent that year. Freaking free throws.:facepalm

He never said he was officially retiring but the media and Bob Costas basically knew he was done and hinted that he should leave because of his play.
You do realize Mj won mvp that year right?:facepalm

[9erempiree]

You do realize Mj won mvp that year right?:facepalm

yep.

Like you, if Kobe doesn't get it this year, it just shows you where this award is heading.

[juju151111]

yep.

Like you, if Kobe doesn't get it this year, it just shows you where this award is heading.
Kobe is not playing better then Durant,Lebron, and even Melo. Stay off the crack.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Have you watched Kobe's interview with Stephen A. Smith?

He was actually very supportive of Gasol and his teammates. Please watch it if you haven't. Think it is one of his best interviews he has ever done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STt32vWt20c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvKgswUiwWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIqgOz_x8oI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSOpNu7c_Xg

Best Kobe interview I've ever seen.

[DatAsh]

Close.

Kobe is the better offensive player while Jordan is better defensively, in this scenario. Jordan was still the best SG defender in the league by a pretty good margin that year so I'd probably give him the edge overall, but I do think Kobe's been better offensively.

[DonDadda59]

yep.

Like you, if Kobe doesn't get it this year, it just shows you where this award is heading.

Unless the Lakers' fortune changes very dramatically from now on, I don't see how anyone can make this claim with a straight face. You can't say a guy leading his team to a 11-14 record (with the best center in the game on his squad) is a serious candidate for MVP. He might have to settle for just a scoring title this year. But like I said before (including before this season started) if Kobe is still putting up 9-29 games when Nash and Gasol return, that's a terrible sign for the Lakers.

[9erempiree]

Kobe is not playing better then Durant,Lebron, and even Melo. Stay off the crack.

Durant?...Career 2 assists per game and not too long ago this year he was at 2 assists per game?

Dude's not getting his team involved. If he gets the ball he's going to shoot it.

Thank goodness they have RW. Melo?...he's alright this year, the team is good.

Lebron?...sort of regressed when others have improved their year such as Kobe. Give Kobe some time with new system, coach and teammates.

[LamarOdom]

Durant?...Career 2 assists per game and not too long ago this year he was at 2 assists per game?

Dude's not getting his team involved. If he gets the ball he's going to shoot it.

Thank goodness they have RW. Melo?...he's alright this year, the team is good.

Lebron?...sort of regressed when others have improved their year such as Kobe. Give Kobe some time with new system, coach and teammates.

What do career numbers have to do with this year? Durant has been working on his all around game.

[Cali Syndicate]

yep.

Like you, if Kobe doesn't get it this year, it just shows you where this award is heading.

If Kobe deserves the MVP this season then mj should have deserved MVP like every season from 87-98. Do u believe this to be true?

[juju151111]

Durant?...Career 2 assists per game and not too long ago this year he was at 2 assists per game?

Dude's not getting his team involved. If he gets the ball he's going to shoot it.

Thank goodness they have RW. Melo?...he's alright this year, the team is good.

Lebron?...sort of regressed when others have improved their year such as Kobe. Give Kobe some time with new system, coach and teammates.
:wtf: does career numbers have to do with this year. Lj regressed? Wtf are u taking:wtf:

[KOBE143]

Watch Kobe this season and tell me with a straight face that he's as good as this player: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzwS62NR9k

Come on dudes... :oldlol:
Looks like poor mans current Kobe to me.. :confusedshrug:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Looks like poor mans current Kobe to me.. :confusedshrug:

You're lying to yourself. Kobe this season or even last season is nowhere close to the man seen in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzwS62NR9k

[selrahc]

its so funny how people use stats to try to discredit kobe,

"he shoots a low percentage"

"he takes 20 shots a game"

but then when they see stats like this they try desperately to rationalize against the use of statistics in anyway possible.

"jordan was nicer to his teammates."

"he had more leadership."

:roll:

[G-Funk]

Kobe is not playing better then Durant,Lebron, and even Melo. Stay off the crack.
Melo???? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Micku]

Close.

Kobe is the better offensive player while Jordan is better defensively, in this scenario. Jordan was still the best SG defender in the league by a pretty good margin that year so I'd probably give him the edge overall, but I do think Kobe's been better offensively.

Yup, so far anyway. Jordan played worst in terms of efficiency in his first 25 games. He got better as the season progress. Injuries and old age were the black cloud around the Bulls team that year, including Jordan.

Kobe is in similar situation as Jordan though. Pippen was the playmaker for the Bulls and Nash is supposed to be the playmaker for the Lakers, and both were injured and had to miss a lot of games. The Lakers just created a new team while the Bulls were just old and crippled. The Bulls was doing better than the Lakers in terms of team record though after 25 games in. Bulls had a winning record while the Lakers do not.

As another person said though, Jordan in 98 was 34/35. Jordan in 97 was 33/34. His BD was mid way in the season. He was 35 in the playoffs in 98. 34 in the playoffs in 97.

[swi7ch]

So an MJ on his last legs was still good enough to win MVP, a championship, Finals MVP, scoring title, and even an ASG MVP?


Proves how much of a GOAT Jordan truly is. If he could do that on his last legs, imagine what he accomplished in his prime. :eek:

[G-Funk]

Proves how much of a GOAT Jordan truly is. If he could do that on his last legs, imagine what he accomplished in his prime. :eek:

Lets be real, MJ would not have won it with Lebron and Durant playing the way they are

[KOBE143]

its so funny how people use stats to try to discredit kobe,

"he shoots a low percentage"

"he takes 20 shots a game"

but then when they see stats like this they try desperately to rationalize against the use of statistics in anyway possible.

"jordan was nicer to his teammates."

"he had more leadership."

:roll:
this

To all Jordan stans, no need to act insecure and create a lot of make up excuses to defend Jordan.. You all looks like desperate for Jordan nuts.. Just accept the fact that Kobe at age 34 is better than Jordan (same age) by far and move on..

[red1]

Jordan left the game on top in 1998. Literally grabbed every single award for the year other than defensive player of the year, and even then he was on the defensive first team. Let's see what kobe does this year before we make this comparison.
http://www.collectors-society.com/usercontent/images/article_images/SI_062298_large.jpg

[KOBE143]

Proves how much of a GOAT Jordan truly is. If he could do that on his last legs, imagine what he accomplished in his prime. :eek:
LOL.. Jordan was already at his last legs at only age 34 while Kobe at age 34 is still going strong and keeps getting better.. :lol

[DonDadda59]

Lets be real, MJ would not have won it with Lebron and Durant playing the way they are

Take those two guys out of the league and Kobe still doesn't win the MVP, to this point of the season. Only way he's even in the conversation (to sane people) is if Nash is truly the messiah Lakers fans have made him out to be :D

Like I said before, too premature to make comparisons when one season was complete, and the other is not even 1/3 over and the playoffs are months away. Kobe's shooting numbers were at all time highs by a big margin just 3 weeks ago.

[Borat]

Thing that stand out the most is 3P attempts, Kobe is averaging 5.7 and Jordan just 1.5

Thats because they have different play styles

[red1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCTp57LQro

[Micku]

Lets be real, MJ would not have won it with Lebron and Durant playing the way they are

MJ wasn't better than Shaq imo that year. The reason why he won it was because the team was old and crippled. Pippen was out for about 38 games, Longley was out for 24 games, Kerr missed several games as well, and everybody else basically fought through injuries, including Jordan.

Just imagine how the Bulls were last year, fighting through D.Rose injuries and maintain the number 1 seed in the East. In 98, the Bulls fought through injuries and missed key players and Jordan played every single game that year while maintaining the number one seed in the East, and tied with the best record in the league. Winning 62 games despite all of those injuries and old age? And still being one of the best defensive teams in the league and still good offensively?

He definitely would have an argument of MVP regardless of Lebron and Durant being better. And the Thunder never won 60+ games with Durant and Westbrooke running the show yet. LeBron never won 60+ games with Miami yet. D.Rose won MVP winning 62 games. So, it'll be similar to that.

[Borat]

its so funny how people use stats to try to discredit kobe,

"he shoots a low percentage"

"he takes 20 shots a game"

but then when they see stats like this they try desperately to rationalize against the use of statistics in anyway possible.

"jordan was nicer to his teammates."

"he had more leadership."

:roll:

the difference between kobe and jordan isnt stats. He was simply a better player. He just had it more. Watch the games is all I can say

[9erempiree]

If you haters think Kobe is bad, lucky you were too young to watch MJ that year.

He was horrible for a guy his standards. He won MVP because there weren't many superstars at that time like there is now.

How many freaking stars in today's league....I would say a lot.

[Micku]

If you haters think Kobe is bad, lucky you were too young to watch MJ that year.

He was horrible for a guy his standards. He won MVP because there weren't many superstars at that time like there is now.

How many freaking stars in today's league....I would say a lot.

He won because there were injuries on his team and they still got the best record. He probably would've won it today if the situation was the same, and if nobody had a better record than the Bulls. But the top stars in 98 were:

Shaq, Karl Malone, Payton and Tim Duncan (rookie year). And Jordan of course.

Today you have:

LeBron, Durant, Melo, CP3, and Kobe.


But you also have Howard, but he needs to get 100%. David Robinson was also up there too.

[9erempiree]

He won because there were injuries on his team and they still got the best record. He probably would've won it today if the situation was the same, and if nobody had a better record than the Bulls. But the top stars in 98 were:

Shaq, Karl Malone, Payton and Tim Duncan (rookie year). And Jordan of course.

Today you have:

LeBron, Durant, Melo, CP3, and Kobe.


But you also have Howard, but he needs to get 100%. David Robinson was also up there too.

That's what I'm saying. Too many stars in their prime and that's including Kobe who's playing like he's 25.

Malone and Payton were done. Shaq had a good year but his team didn't get the best record and they were not going to award a rookie with the award.

Glad you were paying attention that year.

[DonDadda59]

If you haters think Kobe is bad, lucky you were too young to watch MJ that year.

He was horrible for a guy his standards. He won MVP because there weren't many superstars at that time like there is now.

How many freaking stars in today's league....I would say a lot.

You are an idiot.

1997-1998 MVP finalists:

Michael Jordan 28.7 PPG/ 5.8 RPG/ 3.5 APG
Karl Malone 27.1 PPG/ 10.3 RPG/ 3.9 APG
Gary Payton 19.2 PPG/ 4.6 RPG/ 8.3 APG
Shaquille O'Neal 28.3 PPG/ 11.4 RPG/2.4 APG/ 2.5 BPG
Tim Duncan 21.1 PPG/ 11.9 RPG/ 2.4 APG/ 2.4 BPG

Yup, no superstars there :oldlol:

Go to sleep.

[juju151111]

That's what I'm saying. Too many stars in their prime and that's including Kobe who's playing like he's 25.

Malone and Payton were done. Shaq had a good year but his team didn't get the best record and they were not going to award a rookie with the award.

Glad you were paying attention that year.
Are u stupid? The crap u post makes 0 sense

[DonDadda59]

That's what I'm saying. Too many stars in their prime and that's including Kobe who's playing like he's 25.

Malone and Payton were done. Shaq had a good year but his team didn't get the best record and they were not going to award a rookie with the award.

Glad you were paying attention that year.

What the f*ck are you talking about? :oldlol:

Karl Malone was 'done' while he was putting up 27/10/4 and leading his team to the finals? If Payton was 'done' while putting up 19/5/8 then that means CP3 is a relic. Shaq led the Lakers to 61 wins while putting up 28/11, with Kobe riding the bench so again... wtf are you talking about?

Seriously. Tell me.

[9erempiree]

I'm just going to stop participating in this thread after this post because I feel so stupid just reading some of the stuff I have read on here:


Michael Jordan is long retired and irrelevant in today's league. I find it disrespectful to Kobe that you guys like to compare MJ to Kobe to keep his name afloat in today's era.

I guess it's a way to prop up MJ. It's like trying to prop up MJ to one of the greatest players still playing today.

I get it...MJ was a great player. It's like back in the days if....nobody brings up a long retired Magic and compare him to MJ just to keep his myth alive. He's an owner of a team now and sells shoes. Please stop comparing him to a guy still playing.

After Kobe retires, these MJ fans are going to compare him to the next great player just to keep him relevant.

:facepalm

[NLZ]

Surprised in the TS %... Kobe shoots 3x the 3's so you have to take that into account efficiency wise. Back then FG % was up world-wide too.. very low now with every team paying more attention to defensive detail.

All in all, any version of MJ > Kobe Bryant. MJ is in everyones top 3 list without question... he went out a winner.. dominated like no other. Doesn't matter if in 20 or 40 years if a better overall player comes along, he's unlikely to dominate his field the way MJ did. MJ simply dominated his peers more than any other player has done so in basketball.

As for Kobe.. what he's doing is incredibly remarkable.. despite his critics constantly talking about his defense or the lack thereof (for someone his age and what's he's accomplished I think he's doing a good job, keep in mind MJ wasn't defending these athletic freaks that Kobe guards on a nightly basis).

[Micku]

That's what I'm saying. Too many stars in their prime and that's including Kobe who's playing like he's 25.

Malone and Payton were done. Shaq had a good year but his team didn't get the best record and they were not going to award a rookie with the award.

Glad you were paying attention that year.

Karl Malone was not done at all. He was just coming off of a MVP. He won MVP the very next year, over Shaq and Duncan. Payton was only 29 years old.

The Lakers were title contenders and the media thought the Lakers to face the Bulls in the finals, but the team was immature.

There were stars back then, but the major stars were the frontline. You also had Grant Hill, Stockton, Mourning and Tim Hardaway. Patrick Ewing was one of them, but he was out for the season due to injuries. You had Chris Webber too.

[Smoke117]

I honestly don't know where people get that Jordan was this great leader from...unless constantly lashing out at your teammates with your mouth and occasionally actually throwing a punch and hitting yourteammates is actually leadership. He's even admitted he wasn't much of a vocal leader. During the 2nd threepeat especially, Pippen was the real leader of the Bulls.

Neither Kobe or Jordan were/are have any leadership skills. Just because you've been the best player on your team doesn't mean you were a great leader.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I honestly don't know where people get that Jordan was this great leader from...unless constantly lashing out at your teammates with your mouth and occasionally actually throwing a punch and hitting yourteammates is actually leadership. He's even admitted he wasn't much of a vocal leader. During the 2nd threepeat especially, Pippen was the real leader of the Bulls.

:roll:

[Money 23]

Wake me when 34 year old Kobe drops 55 in a PLAYOFF GAME

[KOBE143]

Wake me when 34 year old Kobe drops 55 in a PLAYOFF GAME
Kobe drops 55 against MJ and sent him into retirement crying..

Now that's more impressive..

[LakersForlife]

Kobe is better look at PPG

[Money 23]

Kobe drops 55 against MJ and sent him into retirement crying..

Now that's more impressive..
Yes, Larry Hughes and Jerry Stackhouse got abused that game.

[rhythmic]

So everyone will always pinpoint the statistical advantage Jordan has over Kobe as the reason for his superiority, but yet Jordan is still better then Kobe even though Kobe at 34 has clearly looked better then Jordan at 34? (both on the court and statistically) :oldlol:

Jordan is hella overrated, that was so obvious by him winning MVP over Karl Malone after he came back from baseball. Seriously the guy was NOT as great as everyone tries to believe. I have never seen a superstar's team get underrated as much as Jordan's did. Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Kokuc, Harper, BJ. It's funny how that team without Jordan won 56 games the year he played for the Sox, and had THREE damn all-stars in 94'.

But yeah Jordan carried his team's. :rolleyes:

[kmartshopper]

Let's get back on track and talk about David Lee.

[DonDadda59]

So everyone will always pinpoint the statistical advantage Jordan has over Kobe as the reason for his superiority, but yet Jordan is still better then Kobe even though Kobe at 34 has clearly looked better then Jordan at 34? (both on the court and statistically) :oldlol:

Jordan is hella overrated, that was so obvious by him winning MVP over Karl Malone after he came back from baseball. Seriously the guy was NOT as great as everyone tries to believe. I have never seen a superstar's team get underrated as much as Jordan's did. Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Kokuc, Harper, BJ. It's funny how that team without Jordan won 56 games the year he played for the Sox, and had THREE damn all-stars in 94'.

But yeah Jordan carried his team's. :rolleyes:

Wait, wait, wait... so Jordan is 'hella overrated' for leading Pippen, Grant, Rodman, etc to 2 seperate 3-peats but Kobe gets credit for leading his team to a 11-14 record with the best center in the league on his squad (the same center who already single-handedly led his team to the finals).

How does that even begin to make sense? :biggums:

[9erempiree]

Wait, wait, wait... so Jordan is 'hella overrated' for leading Pippen, Grant, Rodman, etc to 2 seperate 3-peats but Kobe gets credit for leading his team to a 11-14 record with the best center in the league on his squad (the same center who already single-handedly led his team to the finals).

How does that even begin to make sense? :biggums:

You act like this is the same Howard from Orlando and 09.

The man his past his prime, his back is jacked. Nobody gets back into peak play after that kind of surgery on his back.

[DonDadda59]

You act like this is the same Howard from Orlando and 09.

The man his past his prime, his back is jacked. Nobody gets back into peak play after that kind of surgery on his back.

Well that's just f*ckin convenient isn't it? The best center in the game magically exits his prime at age 27 as soon as he starts playing with Kobe.

Yet Jordan is 'hella overrated' for leading his team to a championship (winning MVP, finals MVP, and a scoring title along the way) in a season where Pippen missed the first 35 games (Bulls went 24-11) and they were the oldest team in NBA history to win the 'ship.

Try harder, clowns :oldlol:

[hitmanyr2k]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[9erempiree]

Well that's just f*ckin convenient isn't it? The best center in the game magically exits his prime at age 27 as soon as he starts playing with Kobe.

Yet Jordan is 'hella overrated' for leading his team to a championship (winning MVP, finals MVP, and a scoring title along the way) in a season where Pippen missed the first 35 games (Bulls went 24-11) and they were the oldest team in NBA history to win the 'ship.

Try harder, clowns :oldlol:

It's not convenience.

The doctor were there to cut his back.

All I need is a couple of sentences to refute your dumb argument.

:facepalm

[DonDadda59]

It's not convenience.

The doctor were there to cut his back.

All I need is a couple of sentences to refute your dumb argument.

:facepalm

And the doctor was there to 'cut' Pippen's foot. He was out for 35 games. The Bulls went 24-11 in that stretch. Jordan carried his team to the promised land with an iconic finals. Dwight Howard is at least playing, and still the best center in the league. Lakers are 11-14.

It's an insult to compare Jordan's legendary season to Kobe's mediocrity. A more apt comparison would be Kobe-Jerry Stackhouse in 2000-2001. And poor Stack had Corliss Williamson riding shotgun with him, not the most dominant center of his generation like Bean. Let's be real here.

With that I'm out. Keep hope alive! :oldlol:

[DatAsh]

I honestly don't know where people get that Jordan was this great leader from...unless constantly lashing out at your teammates with your mouth and occasionally actually throwing a punch and hitting yourteammates is actually leadership.

You haven't read very much about Michael Jordan then.

[red1]

And the doctor was there to 'cut' Pippen's foot. He was out for 35 games. The Bulls went 24-11 in that stretch. Jordan carried his team to the promised land with an iconic finals. Dwight Howard is at least playing, and still the best center in the league. Lakers are 11-14.

It's an insult to compare Jordan's legendary season to Kobe's mediocrity. A more apt comparison would be Kobe-Jerry Stackhouse in 2000-2001. And poor Stack had Corliss Williamson riding shotgun with him, not the most dominant center of his generation like Bean. Let's be real here.

With that I'm out. Keep hope alive! :oldlol:
9erempire getting thoroughly tooled

http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/044159e6e0b6bbae9a223ead74efee75883a7b7.gif

[Crystallas]

I wish Jordan could have had his blood spun. The man played through a lot, and did it with the worst starting Center in the modern-era.

[Magic 32]

First of all you have the wrong season, MJ's b-day comes at the middle of the season. So you're supposed to compare it to the 1996 - 1997 season. Kobe's only been 34 since August.

MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense.

MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe, in order to save energy for a true agenda to score points.

MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg the way Kobe so visibly does.

He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player.

MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't)

He played very good defense, as proof watch him in the 1997 playoffs shut down Washington Bullet's best and fastest player, Rod Strickland (put him in a straight jacket)

MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him.

MJ (34) > Kobe (34)

I guess the sheer volume of your post ensures that no one is going to waste their time pigeonholing almost all of these "points".

Let's see....

Jordan didn't throw resident role players under the buss.....he just puched them.

MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe.... because he wasn’t in his 17 season.

MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg...but somehow shoot the ball three times more per game.

He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team" (worthless argument)

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player...which is easier in a strict offence like the triangle.

and on and on and on .

[AlphaWolf24]

First of all you have the wrong season, MJ's b-day comes at the middle of the season. So you're supposed to compare it to the 1996 - 1997 season. Kobe's only been 34 since August.

MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense.

MJ didn't take visible breaks on defense like Kobe, in order to save energy for a true agenda to score points.

MJ put up the same stats, without forcing the issue to get to 30 ppg the way Kobe so visibly does.

He didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ delegated responsibilities and played a role, even if he was the best player.

MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't)

He played very good defense, as proof watch him in the 1997 playoffs shut down Washington Bullet's best and fastest player, Rod Strickland (put him in a straight jacket)

MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him.

MJ (34) > Kobe (34)


another Jordan stan who only knows about MJ through Gatorade ad Nike commercials..:rolleyes:

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Too bad Kobe has played 114 more games than Jordan is still not even close to him in any statistical category.

Jordan = 1072 career games
Kobe = 1186 games

MJ = 30.1 PPG, .497 FG%, 893 blocks, 2514 steals, 5633 assists, 6,672 rebounds, 32,292 points.

KB = 25.5 PPG, .454 FG%, 599 blocks, 1762 steals, 5542 assists, 6,272 rebounds, 30,222 points.

6 rings / 6 FMVP, 10 scoring titles (vs 2), 5 MVP's (vs 1), DPOY, Collegiate national champion, 4 gold medals.

All done without a dominant big man either. :roll::oldlol::lol:banana:

MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.

[OldSchoolBBall]

but yet Jordan is still better then Kobe even though Kobe at 34 has clearly looked better then Jordan at 34? (both on the court and statistically) :oldlol:

Kobe has in no way looked even close to this player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzwS62NR9k

Not this year, not last year. That's 34 year old Jordan.

[Rysio]

not only is kobe better at 34 he also played about 8 years of nba basketball more than jordan at 34. thats a lot of mileage. and lets be real jordan had to take a break from bball to save his career otherwise he wouldve finished similar to tmac, iverson and all those guys who finished like them.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

not only is kobe better at 34 he also played about 8 years of nba basketball more than jordan at 34. thats a lot of mileage. and lets be real jordan had to take a break from bball to save his career otherwise he wouldve finished similar to tmac, iverson and all those guys who finished like them.

I keep hearing the kids saying "Jordan HAD to take a break" referring to 1993-1995. If he was truly taking a break, all other legit reasons being off the table, why play baseball?

Couldn't be that his Dad had just been murdered, he felt he had nothing to prove in basketball at that time (as he said in his press conference), gambling problems etc.

Think logically people. This make 0 sense.:rolleyes:

[Dragonyeuw]

thats a lot of mileage. and lets be real jordan had to take a break from bball to save his career otherwise he wouldve finished similar to tmac, iverson and all those guys who finished like them.

What the hell are you talking about? First, outside of his second season Jordan never had any major injury issues during his prime that would make anyone believe he would have somehow 'broken down' had he not taken a break at 30. He was as durable as they came back then, even with his high-flying style( notice how D-Wade's similar style has him now a shell of himself at 30). And at 30 he had already begun to transition his game to less acrobatic drives and operating in the post and midrange, even though most people seem to think that style first surfaced in the 2nd threepeat. There is absolutely nothing at all to back up your statement that Jordan was headed 'the Tmac route' without a break between 1993-95. Tmac as young as 22-23 was having chronic back issues. In his first 9 seasons, Jordan had seasons of 82,18( broken foot),82, 82,81, 82, 82,80, 78. Yes, clearly a player that was on the verge of breaking down ala Tmac, given his injury history to that point. :rolleyes:

Tmac's body was obviously not designed to withstand the rigors of an NBA season over 12-15 years, and Iverson had a good 13 years before he 'broke down' at 34 which is perfectly understandable for a 5'11 guy whose game was based on speed and quickness. Vince Carter was another great athlete who didn't have the work ethic and had early career injuries, and was a shell of himself by the time he hit early 30's. Jordan's first 9 seasons in no way mirrors those guys, to make any objective minded person believe he was due to 'break down' without a mid-career break.

[Poetry]

You act like this is the same Howard from Orlando and 09.

The man his past his prime, his back is jacked. Nobody gets back into peak play after that kind of surgery on his back.

Dwight will be fine. His back is not 100%, but he's getting there. And he's healthier in other respects.

[I]"Howard knows that he's in better shape than he was before, and he knows a lot of that has to do with the work he's done with Meyer. "I got my weight back up, and actually my body fat went down. It

[Rysio]

took 2 long breaks. i think its obvious he had 2 major injuries that he kept a secret cause he didnt want his stans to belive he was mortal and just played it off as he had no desire to play the game. :rolleyes:

[Asukal]

took 2 long breaks. i think its obvious he had 2 major injuries that he kept a secret cause he didnt want his stans to belive he was mortal and just played it off as he had no desire to play the game. :rolleyes:

Haha is this all you can come up with? :roll:

What a retard... :facepalm

[Rysio]

Haha is this all you can come up with? :roll:

What a retard... :facepalm
its the truth. why would a player in his prime ever retire to only come back a year later? exactly.

[Cali Syndicate]

took 2 long breaks. i think its obvious he had 2 major injuries that he kept a secret cause he didnt want his stans to belive he was mortal and just played it off as he had no desire to play the game. :rolleyes:

Averaged 40/8/6 on 50% in the finals while injured. Got it.

[Bandito]

Averaged 40/8/6 on 50% in the finals while injured. Got it.
Of course he did, didn't you see him wobbling while dunking on everybody in that finals?:rolleyes:

[9erempiree]

I find it funny that people like to bring up stats but when they are in Kobe's favor they ignore it.:facepalm

I really don't care....people know how I feel. Put their names in a hat and pick a name, whomever comes up is GOAT.

That's how similar these guys are.

[Money 23]

I really don't care....people know how I feel. Put their names in a hat and pick a name, whomever comes up is GOAT.
No.

Kobe never had a Finals like MJ's first three peat, and never will. Never matched the sheer playoff dominance or all around game of Jordan's from 1990 - 1993.

[SCdac]

Put their names in a hat and pick a name, whomever comes up is GOAT.

... said nobody ever :roll:

[caliman]

MJ was by far and away better. A true leader who inspired his teammates play, and didn't throw resident role players under the buss claiming they don't play defense.


Revisionist bullsh*t. Go look up some quotes from Phil Jackson, Ron Harper and some of the other player. The real "leader" of that team had the initials SP. MJ was the same type of "leader" as Kobe. He led by rebuke, by demands, by belittling. Get outta here with that "MJ was a great leader" crap.

[TheBigVeto]

MJ didn't recruit a couple great players then alienate them by going to the local media he has in his pocket and calling it "my team"

MJ didn't throw his sidekick Scottie Pippen, a man who like Pau Gasol helped him win rings by saying "he needs to put his big boy pants on" instead MJ pumped him up. Told the media he wouldn't be where he was without Pippen, and that he was an MVP caliber player (even if he wasn't)

MJ was leading the best team in the league, Kobe's leading the Lakers to a #8 seed at best, yet with a MUCH more talented roster surrounding him.

MJ (34) > Kobe (34)

This.

[Round Mound]

Too bad Kobe has played 114 more games than Jordan is still not even close to him in any statistical category.

Jordan = 1072 career games
Kobe = 1186 games

MJ = 30.1 PPG, .497 FG%, 893 blocks, 2514 steals, 5633 assists, 6,672 rebounds, 32,292 points.

KB = 25.5 PPG, .454 FG%, 599 blocks, 1762 steals, 5542 assists, 6,272 rebounds, 30,222 points.

6 rings / 6 FMVP, 10 scoring titles (vs 2), 5 MVP's (vs 1), DPOY, Collegiate national champion, 4 gold medals.

All done without a dominant big man either. :roll::oldlol::lol:banana:

MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.

:applause:

Lets see if Kobe actually Averages 32.4 PPG (46.2% FG), 5.1 RPG, 3.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 2.1 TOVs and 2.2 PFs PG at age 35 In the Play-Offs? Wait are the Lakers Going to Make the Play-Offs?

Will Kobe Take the Last Second Shot and Seal Victory For His Team In The NBA Finals?

MJ Did this Without a Dominant Big: Shaq, Gasol, Bynum or Howard.

[Lebron23]

Give me Jordan. Finals MVP, Regular Season MVP and NBA Scoring Champion.

[aau]

No.

Kobe never had a Finals like MJ's first three peat, and never will. Never matched the sheer playoff dominance or all around game of Jordan's from 1990 - 1993.

this is interesting . . . just curious (using all 6 titles)

does kobe get to play in the 90s

does he get to play with

pippen , grant/rodman , kukoc , bja , paxson and serviceable bigs

does he get to play against all-stars like john starks 3 times
craig ehlo twice , jeff hornacek twice , 33 yo danny ainge
hersey hawkins , nick anderson , voshon lenard
steve smith and the great david wesley
- all without championship centers

if so , then yea . . . . he'd dominate much the same

[OldSchoolBBall]

this is interesting . . . just curious (using all 6 titles)

does kobe get to play in the 90s

does he get to play with

pippen , grant/rodman , kukoc , bja , paxson and serviceable bigs

does he get to play against all-stars like john starks 3 times
craig ehlo twice , jeff hornacek twice , 33 yo danny ainge
hersey hawkins , nick anderson , voshon lenard
steve smith and the great david wesley
- all without championship centers

if so , then yea . . . . he'd dominate much the same

Kobe played older, past prime versions of many of the same players Jordan torched in the 90's from '00-'03 in the playoffs and despite that and even with Shaq commanding defensive attention, Kobe still didn't dominate nearly as much as Jordan did. GTFOH with this nonsense. :oldlol:

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Kobe played older, past prime versions of many of the same players Jordan torched in the 90's from '00-'03 in the playoffs and despite that and even with Shaq commanding defensive attention, Kobe still didn't dominate nearly as much as Jordan did. GTFOH with this nonsense. :oldlol:

This. Plus isn't 1996-1999 "the 90's"? :roll:

[aau]

Kobe played older, past prime versions of many of the same players Jordan torched in the 90's from '00-'03 in the playoffs and despite that and even with Shaq commanding defensive attention, Kobe still didn't dominate nearly as much as Jordan did. GTFOH with this nonsense. :oldlol:

wow

clueless as usual

do jordan fans know anything about the
league other than michael jordan

these guys are washed up

postseason avgs or mpg

2000 - reggie miller 24 - pippen 15 - penny 20 - peja 10
2001 - allen iverson 33 - daniels 13 - peja 21 - pippen 39mpg
2002 - kittles/jefferson - peja 14 - bowen 34mpg - bonzi 16

2009 - pietrus - jr smith - artest/battier - kirilenko
2010 - ray allen 16p 38mpg - j-rich 20 - wes matt - durant/wbrook

.

you're saying that these 2 lists are comparable

sit down and stfu

[ZaaaaaH]

Kobe is playing fantastic basketball but there are a few things that aren't so fantastic along with it.

1. Turnovers - Kobe has been constantly turning the ball over left and right. This has been happening a lot during his drives to the basket. Perhaps due to lack of athleticism and protection. Maybe its just me but I feel like he's been stripped more this season (and this early in a season, at that) than any portion of his career. He never used to get cookie'd as much as he has been of late. Perhaps this because of his increased ball-handling duties which is way to much for him. This part of his game will probably improve with the return of Steve Nash. Jordan barely had Pippen that season ('98) and turned the ball over much less.

2. Defense - Kobe had begun sagging off of D since around 09, but would occasionally lock in when he needed to. These days he has been extremely soft when it comes to defense. He's contesting less these days, locking in less and less, and just doesn't seem focused. He tries to roam on defense like he used to earlier in his career but he's too slow returning to his man and gets burned so much. Jordan was still a solid defender at 34.


These two things are big differentials between him and Jordan at age 34. In terms of scoring, Kobe was just as good, if not better. In terms of the other intangibles of the game, I would give it to Jordan. Jordan was the better player at 34, albeit slightly. Kobe still has a whole lot of season left for us to judge. He could surprise or he could disappoint. And besides team success, he's been surprising time and time again.


I like the part where u point out only Kobes negatives. :facepalm

Nice avy by the way

[ZaaaaaH]

Both are Top notch at age 34 and playing at the Highest Level for long time.

Funny how Kobe haters dont mention MJ has been with the similar roster for longer time with Phil as their coach.

Biased when it comes to Kobe is amazing here.

[ZaaaaaH]

:applause:

Lets see if Kobe actually Averages 32.4 PPG (46.2% FG), 5.1 RPG, 3.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 2.1 TOVs and 2.2 PFs PG at age 35 In the Play-Offs? Wait are the Lakers Going to Make the Play-Offs?

Will Kobe Take the Last Second Shot and Seal Victory For His Team In The NBA Finals?

MJ Did this Without a Dominant Big: Shaq, Gasol, Bynum or Howard.


Gasol Bynum are Dominant now ???

Wtf is wrong with u ppl. :facepalm

[crisoner]

Both are Top notch at age 34 and playing at the Highest Level for long time.

Funny how Kobe haters dont mention MJ has been with the similar roster for longer time with Phil as their coach.

Biased when it comes to Kobe is amazing here.

Great point....

Jordan's team was establish and as a team was in their prime.

But my hats off to both of these guys at age 34.....
Look at other great players when they hit that age.....some of them are out of the NBA and former shells of themselves.

[PyrrhusX]

Gasol Bynum are Dominant now ???

Wtf is wrong with u ppl. :facepalm

I think he means dominant during the years they won championships. Which is absolutely correct. KB needs a dominant big man to win rings.

[aau]

few more questions

does kobe get to play 1-on-1 against unathletic-midgets for 40min.

does he get to feast on magic , bird and isiah's leftovers

does he get to play against expansion teams

does he get to jordan cats on the defensive end
and get every call imaginable on the offensive end
. . . . . you know , that untouchable treatment

and does he get a 2-year break in-between

[CAstill]

I think he means dominant during the years they won championships. Which is absolutely correct. KB needs a dominant big man to win rings.

:facepalm
Just bullsh!t across the board. Pau was above average and soft.
Bynum was hurt, young, and basically not good.
Lamar was better than both he just was inconsistent and soft like Pau.
Kobe won with serviceable big men and that kills you MJ stans.

[ZaaaaaH]

I think he means dominant during the years they won championships. Which is absolutely correct. KB needs a dominant big man to win rings.


I know what he meant.

Gasol was not Dominant he was a great Number 2 option.

Bynum never dominated anything in his career besides making a fool out of himself with all that Talent and Size.

If you think those two were dominant I wonder What Shaq was during the 3peat. :facepalm

Shaq was the Only DOMINANT big Kobe played with. Dont get it twisted with ur hate for Kobe.

[Vertical-24]

I think he means dominant during the years they won championships. Which is absolutely correct. KB needs a dominant big man to win rings.

I could very much concede to the fact that Gasol was a top 5 pf and one of the great big men of the league...but dominance implies ability to take over and pretty much dwarf the competition. I wouldnt call Gasol dominant per se, just a really great player. And Bynum in the finals? Dominant? :oldlol: Thats cute.

[Vertical-24]

I know what he meant.

Gasol was not Dominant he was a great Number 2 option.

Bynum never dominated anything in his career besides making a fool out of himself with all that Talent and Size.

If you think those two were dominant I wonder What Shaq was during the 3peat. :facepalm

Shaq was the Only DOMINANT big Kobe played with. Dont get it twisted with ur hate for Kobe.
My sentiments exactly:cheers:

[CAstill]

He wasn't great he was above average.
If he was so great we would be talking about a 3peat here
where he would of dominated the Celtics lol.

[Roundball_Rock]

1998=Jordan's 13th season, and in one season he played 18 games and in another 17.

2012=Kobe's 17th season.

If Jordan did not take time off to play golf and baseball and had a normal career what would his year 17 production be? That should have been MJ in 2001--and with a full 1995 under his belt.

As a comparison, in his 17th season Kareem was first team all-NBA top 5 in MVP voting.

[hitmanyr2k]

this is interesting . . . just curious (using all 6 titles)

does kobe get to play in the 90s

does he get to play with

pippen , grant/rodman , kukoc , bja , paxson and serviceable bigs

does he get to play against all-stars like john starks 3 times
craig ehlo twice , jeff hornacek twice , 33 yo danny ainge
hersey hawkins , nick anderson , voshon lenard
steve smith and the great david wesley
- all without championship centers

if so , then yea . . . . he'd dominate much the same

Kobe already had the benefit of playing with a HOF unstoppable center in his prime and shooters like Horry and Fisher (who have saved LA's asses on more than one occassion).

And during LA's 3peat while the all-star swingmen (T-Mac, Vince, Ray Allen, Iverson, Paul Pierce, etc) all had to battle in the Eastern Conference Kobe got to play against non-all-star midgets like 6'3 Antonio Daniels, 6'2 Bobby Jackson, can't forget 6'3 Cuttino Mobley, and then the one dimensional players that weren't any kind of threat on the offensive end like Bruce Bowen and Doug "no offense" Christie. Not one player Kobe faced in the 00's is going to bother Jordan lol...especially with Shaq taking much of the defensive attention.

[Leviathon1121]

this is interesting . . . just curious (using all 6 titles)

does kobe get to play in the 90s

does he get to play with

pippen , grant/rodman , kukoc , bja , paxson and serviceable bigs

does he get to play against all-stars like john starks 3 times
craig ehlo twice , jeff hornacek twice , 33 yo danny ainge
hersey hawkins , nick anderson , voshon lenard
steve smith and the great david wesley
- all without championship centers

if so , then yea . . . . he'd dominate much the same

He played against, and was guarded by an unathletic, 38 year old white point guard in Jason Kidd, and got swept with home court advantage. So...

[aau]

Kobe already had the benefit of playing with a HOF unstoppable center in his prime and shooters like Horry and Fisher (who have saved LA's asses on more than one occassion).

And during LA's 3peat while the all-star swingmen (T-Mac, Vince, Ray Allen, Iverson, Paul Pierce, etc) all had to battle in the Eastern Conference Kobe got to play against non-all-star midgets like 6'3 Antonio Daniels, 6'2 Bobby Jackson, can't forget 6'3 Cuttino Mobley, and then the one dimensional players that weren't any kind of threat on the offensive end like Bruce Bowen and Doug "no offense" Christie. Not one player Kobe faced in the 00's is going to bother Jordan lol...especially with Shaq taking much of the defensive attention.

not one player that jordan faced would bother kobe

especially with pippen as the lead defender

come on jordan fans , this is too easy

[aau]

He played against, and was guarded by an unathletic, 38 year old white point guard in Jason Kidd, and got swept with home court advantage. So...

dead-legged going for his 4th finals in a row

(only done twice in modern era by the way)

maybe he should've taken a few years off

.

.

any jordan fans with a real argument

[guy]

Both are Top notch at age 34 and playing at the Highest Level for long time.

Funny how Kobe haters dont mention MJ has been with the similar roster for longer time with Phil as their coach.

Biased when it comes to Kobe is amazing here.

No not really. The only teammate Jordan had in the first threepeat that he had in the second threepeat was Pippen, and before that when they weren't winning championships the roster changed alot. Neither Jordan or Kobe's rosters have been really that much more consistent then the others. There's only a handful of teammates that each had for 5+ seasons, which is the case with most players.

So let me guess, the Lakers struggles this year is because Kobe hasn't played with Howard, Nash, and others enough? :oldlol:

[guy]

1998=Jordan's 13th season, and in one season he played 18 games and in another 17.

2012=Kobe's 17th season.

If Jordan did not take time off to play golf and baseball and had a normal career what would his year 17 production be? That should have been MJ in 2001--and with a full 1995 under his belt.

As a comparison, in his 17th season Kareem was first team all-NBA top 5 in MVP voting.

Well there's a difference in age, so its more like if Jordan started at 18 in 1981 and his 17th season was 1998.

[ZaaaaaH]

No not really. The only teammate Jordan had in the first threepeat that he had in the second threepeat was Pippen, and before that when they weren't winning championships the roster changed alot. Neither Jordan or Kobe's rosters have been really that much more consistent then the others. There's only a handful of teammates that each had for 5+ seasons, which is the case with most players.

So let me guess, the Lakers struggles this year is because Kobe hasn't played with Howard, Nash, and others enough? :oldlol:


Again you haters forget to mention everything I said always trying to nit pick. Its harder to adjust to a new system then new roster in the NBA.

Phil has been with the Bulls how long?

How many years have Kobe and the others been learning D'Antonis system?

Again stop with ur hate and think b4 you come at me.

[NumberSix]

MJ played D

[guy]

Again you haters forget to mention everything I said always trying to nit pick. Its harder to adjust to a new system then new roster in the NBA.

Phil has been with the Bulls how long?

How many years have Kobe and the others been learning D'Antonis system?

Again stop with ur hate and think b4 you come at me.

You said nothing about system. Either way, you are nitpicking when you make excuses for an all-time great player with teammates like this when you bring up systems and coaches. Its one thing if this team is underperforming in comparison to their expectations if they were like 20-13 instead of 26-7, which is about what their expectations were at this point. But 15-18 and out of the playoff picture? Bringing up the system and the coach for that bad of record is nitpicking and just completely pathetic.

Its funny you bring up Jordan. Do you realize the Lakers are on pace for a 37-45 record? Jordan with the 2002 Wizards went 30-30 in the games he played, which was on pace to be 41-41, and then in 2003 they matched that 37-45 record :oldlol: You seriously have the nerve to bring up Jordan when his team was doing better at 38 years old, 3 years removed from playing, on a completely different franchise with significantly worse teammates that he never played with? :roll: You are the one that really needs to think before you type.

[Roundball_Rock]

Great point....

Jordan's team was establish and as a team was in their prime.

But my hats off to both of these guys at age 34.....
Look at other great players when they hit that age.....some of them are out of the NBA and former shells of themselves.

The 98' Bulls were not in their prime. They barely got past the Pacers in the ECF and then had a close NBA finals with the Jazz. In 1996 they went 72-10 and in 1997 69-13. In 1998 the Bulls actually were the underdogs going into the finals since they narrowly beat the Pacers while the Jazz swept the Shaq/Kobe/Van Exel/Jones Lakers in the WCF.

All that said, it is true at that point Jordan had been playing with the same core of players since 1995. He had Pippen since 1987 and Kukoc/Kerr/Harper/Longley and Rodman since 1996. So he was familiar with all the players who were relevant in the team's rotation by 1998. In contrast, Kobe's two best teammates this year are new.


Well there's a difference in age, so its more like if Jordan started at 18 in 1981 and his 17th season was 1998.

True. I just find it annoying that Jordan's age is taken at face value, i.e. his accomplishments at 34, 35 or 38 are compared straight up with that of players who did not take 5 years off--and Jordan was doing nothing athletically for 3 years of those years. Yet people compare Jordan at 38 to Kareem being all-NBA first team and top 5 in MVP voting at 38--his 17th season. :no:

[Money 23]

Well there's a difference in age, so its more like if Jordan started at 18 in 1981 and his 17th season was 1998.
Exactly.

It's not a fair comparison. MJ was a franchise 28+ ppg caliber player from his first season. Kobe was 18, rode the pine and got knowledge. Those first few years in the league weren't near as difficult on him in terms of shouldering loads of minutes, production, face of a franchise, target of opposing defenses as Mike.

Mike also took a physical beating being in a more physical league for his entire career. MJ didn't take years off on defense to conserve his offensive game's full potential, either ala Kobe in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, and 2013.

MJ retired for essentially two seasons, while attempting to play another professional sport. That's rigorous, and shouldn't be so casually dismissed.

It's not a strict NBA mileage v.s. NBA mileage thing, either. Age needs to be accounted for ... MJ was in his 14th season in 2002. He was 38 / 39 years old during that season. At that advanced age, the body reacts to things differently. Even without as many NBA seasons as Kobe (not all were franchise star rigorous seasons) ... he sat out for three years from '99 - 2001, got out of shape and rusty and worked his way back AGAIN. That too takes a toll on your body.

MJ in 2002 was 5 years older than Kobe is currently. Comparing their productions at MJ's age and Kobe's 17th season is apples and oranges.

MJ haters like Roundball Rock even insinuating MJ wouldn't have been able to do what Kobe is doing in his 17th season is an insult. MJ was more durable, year in and year out. He didn't miss a game as a 33, 34, and 35 year old. 3 straight CHAMPIONSHIP seasons playing well into the month of June.

You mean to tell me a 38.5 / 39 year old Jordan, pre knee injury in 2002 putting up 26 / 5 / 5 wouldn't have been able to put up comparable age statistics in the following seasons?

1994: 32 ppg
1995: 30 ppg

And between 1999 - 2002, given his average in '98 was around 29 ppg ... you don't think it is not only possible, but PROBABLE in those three seasons he'd average between 29 ppg - 26 ppg?

:biggums:

[ZaaaaaH]

You said nothing about system. Either way, you are nitpicking when you make excuses for an all-time great player with teammates like this when you bring up systems and coaches. Its one thing if this team is underperforming in comparison to their expectations if they were like 20-13 instead of 26-7, which is about what their expectations were at this point. But 15-18 and out of the playoff picture? Bringing up the system and the coach for that bad of record is nitpicking and just completely pathetic.

Its funny you bring up Jordan. Do you realize the Lakers are on pace for a 37-45 record? Jordan with the 2002 Wizards went 30-30 in the games he played, which was on pace to be 41-41, and then in 2003 they matched that 37-45 record :oldlol: You seriously have the nerve to bring up Jordan when his team was doing better at 38 years old, 3 years removed from playing, on a completely different franchise with significantly worse teammates that he never played with? :roll: You are the one that really needs to think before you type.


Are you in ur own little World? When did I ever make an excuses for Lakers under performing with their roster?

Do you know how to read? If you do please go back and read my post.


All I said was "Funny how Kobe haters dont mention MJ has been with the similar roster for longer time with Phil as their coach." Which is FACT and me mentioning PHIL is pretty much the same thing as system.

Not even that the Bulls made it to the Playoffs without MJ. Do you think Lakers can do the same without Kobe?

GTFO here with ALL Time great teammates. You can have all the talent but if they dont give you all they got its useless. And no shiit its pathetic that Lakers are where they are now but if you think THINK, Their roster does not work well with D'Antoni. They are OLD Nash is not the SAME 2 time MVP Caliber player like he was before who can take over offensively. He can barely get his own shot against good defenders this season.

WTF are you talking about I brought up Jordan? :facepalm

Its so obvious ur a Kobe hater and a Jordan stan GTFO here.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Exactly.

It's not a fair comparison. MJ was a franchise 28+ ppg caliber player from his first season. Kobe was 18, rode the pine and got knowledge. Those first few years in the league weren't near as difficult on him in terms of shouldering loads of minutes, production, face of a franchise, target of opposing defenses as Mike.

Mike also took a physical beating being in a more physical league for his entire career. MJ didn't take years off on defense to conserve his offensive game's full potential, either ala Kobe in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, and 2013.

MJ retired for essentially two seasons, while attempting to play another professional sport. That's rigorous, and shouldn't be so casually dismissed.

It's not a strict NBA mileage v.s. NBA mileage thing, either. Age needs to be accounted for ... MJ was in his 14th season in 2002. He was 38 / 39 years old during that season. At that advanced age, the body reacts to things differently. Even without as many NBA seasons as Kobe (not all were franchise star rigorous seasons) ... he sat out for three years from '99 - 2001, got out of shape and rusty and worked his way back AGAIN. That too takes a toll on your body.

MJ in 2002 was 5 years older than Kobe is currently. Comparing their productions at MJ's age and Kobe's 17th season is apples and oranges.

MJ haters like Roundball Rock even insinuating MJ wouldn't have been able to do what Kobe is doing in his 17th season is an insult. MJ was more durable, year in and year out. He didn't miss a game as a 33, 34, and 35 year old. 3 straight CHAMPIONSHIP seasons playing well into the month of June.

You mean to tell me a 38.5 / 39 year old Jordan, pre knee injury in 2002 putting up 26 / 5 / 5 wouldn't have been able to put up comparable age statistics in the following seasons?

1994: 32 ppg
1995: 30 ppg

And between 1999 - 2002, given his average in '98 was around 29 ppg ... you don't think it is not only possible, but PROBABLE in those three seasons he'd average between 29 ppg - 26 ppg?

:biggums:

Good post. You're right on the "money".

I wish somebody would keep track of all the momentum-killing shots Kobe has taken this season. I've lost count of how many times I've watched him dribble down the court, hold it for 20 seconds without passing, and then shoot a long fadeaway over 2 defenders. That is cancerous basketball.

If the Lakers had any balls they would put Kobe in check and let him watch Nash lead this team to a winning record. The Suns almost made the playoffs with one of the worst rosters in the league last year. :oldlol:

You're telling me he couldn't do better with Pau and Dwight instead of Gortat and...no one? Lol.

[chazzy]

If the Lakers had any balls they would put Kobe in check and let him watch Nash lead this team to a winning record. The Suns almost made the playoffs with one of the worst rosters in the league last year. :oldlol:

You're telling me he couldn't do better with Pau and Dwight instead of Gortat and...no one? Lol.
Nash has been running the offense since coming back 9 games ago, and they've been great at that end all year. i don't know how letting Nash take 100% control would fix their defense. How many times does this need to get repeated

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Nash has been running the offense since coming back 9 games ago, and they've been great at that end all year. i don't know how letting Nash take 100% control would fix their defense. How many times does this need to get repeated

My point is that Kobe breaks said offense w/ his shot-jacking.

Really, though, who wants to play defense when your "leader" is someone enamored w/ chasing scoring titles? :confusedshrug:

[gengiskhan]

Too bad Kobe has played 114 more games than Jordan is still not even close to him in any statistical category.

Jordan = 1072 career games
Kobe = 1186 games

MJ = 30.1 PPG, .497 FG%, 893 blocks, 2514 steals, 5633 assists, 6,672 rebounds, 32,292 points.

KB = 25.5 PPG, .454 FG%, 599 blocks, 1762 steals, 5542 assists, 6,272 rebounds, 30,222 points.

6 rings / 6 FMVP, 10 scoring titles (vs 2), 5 MVP's (vs 1), DPOY, Collegiate national champion, 4 gold medals.

All done without a dominant big man either. :roll::oldlol::lol:banana:

MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.

Kobe & kobe'tards bu$$f'kd beyond imagination. :coleman:

[tpols]

Nash has been running the offense since coming back 9 games ago, and they've been great at that end all year. i don't know how letting Nash take 100% control would fix their defense. How many times does this need to get repeated
The Lakers would have a better record with a hobbled Nash + Jodie Meeks backcourt. :oldlol: Kuniva_dAMiGhTy got exposed in that other thread.. Dudes a hater and a liar.

As for this Thread its MJ at the same ages.. Kobe's defense hasn't been on his level for a while now even though the offense is comparable.

[chazzy]

Really, though, who wants to play defense when your "leader" is someone chasing scoring titles? :confusedshrug:
Weak excuse. That's just hater talk. People can't point at his efficiency anymore so they come up with garbage reasons like this :oldlol:

MJs teams and more notably Iverson's teams had 0 problems playing defense with their best player taking a high volume of shots. 2010 Lakers had no problem playing defense either. Reaching hard.

[The-Legend-24]

This. Plus isn't 1996-1999 "the 90's"? :roll:
Kobe > Shaq.

U Mad fakkit?

[guy]

True. I just find it annoying that Jordan's age is taken at face value, i.e. his accomplishments at 34, 35 or 38 are compared straight up with that of players who did not take 5 years off--and Jordan was doing nothing athletically for 3 years of those years. Yet people compare Jordan at 38 to Kareem being all-NBA first team and top 5 in MVP voting at 38--his 17th season. :no:

I see your point. At the same time, alot of people act like doing what Jordan did taking a 2 year break in his early 30s then return in his mid 30s then retire again and return after a 3 year break in his late 30s and play the way he did in his comebacks was not in anyway difficult. You can argue one or the other is more difficult, but both are clearly difficult in different ways.

[guy]

MJ retired for essentially two seasons, while attempting to play another professional sport. That's rigorous, and shouldn't be so casually dismissed.


I've never understood why people just dismiss this. Sure, baseball isn't basketball, but it clearly takes a toll on someone's body. People act like he was cryogenically frozen and then came back the same person and player he was the day he retired.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Weak excuse. That's just hater talk. People can't point at his efficiency anymore so they come up with garbage reasons like this :oldlol:

MJs teams and more notably Iverson's teams had 0 problems playing defense with their best player taking a high volume of shots. 2010 Lakers had no problem playing defense either. Reaching hard.

So he's allowed to play NO defense and chuck up shots. :confusedshrug:

Kobe isn't Iverson nor Jordan for that matter. Kobe has had a history of alienating his teammates.

[chazzy]

So he's allowed to play NO defense and chuck up shots. :confusedshrug:

Kobe isn't Iverson nor Jordan for that matter. Kobe has had a history of alienating his teammates.
Your two points have been

- The Lakers should run the offensive exclusively through Nash in order to succeed
-They're playing bad defense because their leader is taking too many shots

What does that have to do with excusing Kobe from not playing defense? I never said that.

[guy]

Are you in ur own little World? When did I ever make an excuses for Lakers under performing with their roster?

Do you know how to read? If you do please go back and read my post.


All I said was "Funny how Kobe haters dont mention MJ has been with the similar roster for longer time with Phil as their coach." Which is FACT and me mentioning PHIL is pretty much the same thing as system.


First of all, its not a fact AT ALL. Jordan only played for Phil for 7 seasons (8 if you include the end of 95), while Kobe played for Phil for 11 seasons. And as far as teammates they played with under Phil, Jordan played with the Pippen/Grant/Paxson/Cartwright core for 4 years and the Pippen/Rodman/Kukoc/Harper/Longley core for 3 years. As far as consistency goes, how is that so radically different from Kobe playing under Phil with the Shaq/Fisher/Fox/Horry/Shaw core for 4-5 years and then the Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Fisher core for 4 years? If you seriously find some significant difference there, YOU ARE NITPICKING. If you're trying to say something else, please clarify.

Second of all, if you're not trying to make excuses for this year, then what relevance does your point hold, even if it is true? What is the point? What difference does it make? I don't really get how anyone can read that as anything other then you trying to point out some favorable situation Jordan was in and/or some unfavorable situation Kobe was in.



Not even that the Bulls made it to the Playoffs without MJ. Do you think Lakers can do the same without Kobe?

GTFO here with ALL Time great teammates. You can have all the talent but if they dont give you all they got its useless. And no shiit its pathetic that Lakers are where they are now but if you think THINK, Their roster does not work well with D'Antoni. They are OLD Nash is not the SAME 2 time MVP Caliber player like he was before who can take over offensively. He can barely get his own shot against good defenders this season.

WTF are you talking about I brought up Jordan? :facepalm

Its so obvious ur a Kobe hater and a Jordan stan GTFO here.

Can the Lakers make it to the playoffs without Kobe? Sure its possible. There problem clearly isn't talent, its chemistry. If there was that big of a change, the chemistry might be different and possibly for the better.

Kobe's teams not giving all they got and inconsistent effort has been a common thing throughout his career. Do you think thats a coincidence? At some point you have to look at the leadership of the team. Its not all Kobe's fault, but unless you want to say he's not a leader of this team, he definitely should shoulder much of the blame.

[ZaaaaaH]

Too bad Kobe has played 114 more games than Jordan is still not even close to him in any statistical category.

Jordan = 1072 career games
Kobe = 1186 games

MJ = 30.1 PPG, .497 FG%, 893 blocks, 2514 steals, 5633 assists, 6,672 rebounds, 32,292 points.

KB = 25.5 PPG, .454 FG%, 599 blocks, 1762 steals, 5542 assists, 6,272 rebounds, 30,222 points.

6 rings / 6 FMVP, 10 scoring titles (vs 2), 5 MVP's (vs 1), DPOY, Collegiate national champion, 4 gold medals.

All done without a dominant big man either. :roll::oldlol::lol:banana:

MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.


Fake Shaq I understand you dont like Kobe and always try to find ways to discredit what Kobe has done. You comparing Kobe to MJ really does not help ur case since NO ONE comes Close to Jordans accomplishments and HOW he has done it. When you do this only thing it shows is ur insecurity.

Try to be more like the REAL Shaq and respect Kobe for what He has done for the league.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Your two points have been

- The Lakers should run the offensive exclusively through Nash in order to succeed
-They're playing bad defense because their leader is taking too many shots

What does that have to do with excusing Kobe from not playing defense? I never said that.

But, you said it's an "excuse" for Kobe's teammates not to play defense while he gets to focus on....scoring.

Obviously him scoring isn't the answer. Maybe he should try playing defense, and, I don't know, making his teammates better? :confusedshrug:

[ZaaaaaH]

First of all, its not a fact AT ALL. Jordan only played for Phil for 7 seasons (8 if you include the end of 95), while Kobe played for Phil for 11 seasons. And as far as teammates they played with under Phil, Jordan played with the Pippen/Grant/Paxson/Cartwright core for 4 years and the Pippen/Rodman/Kukoc/Harper/Longley core for 3 years. As far as consistency goes, how is that so radically different from Kobe playing under Phil with the Shaq/Fisher/Fox/Horry/Shaw core for 4-5 years and then the Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Fisher core for 4 years? If you seriously find some significant difference there, YOU ARE NITPICKING. If you're trying to say something else, please clarify.

Second of all, if you're not trying to make excuses for this year, then what relevance does your point hold, even if it is true? What is the point? What difference does it make? I don't really get how anyone can read that as anything other then you trying to point out some favorable situation Jordan was in and/or some unfavorable situation Kobe was in.



Can the Lakers make it to the playoffs without Kobe? Sure its possible. There problem clearly isn't talent, its chemistry. If there was that big of a change, the chemistry might be different and possibly for the better.

Kobe's teams not giving all they got and inconsistent effort has been a common thing throughout his career. Do you think thats a coincidence? At some point you have to look at the leadership of the team. Its not all Kobe's fault, but unless you want to say he's not a leader of this team, he definitely should shoulder much of the blame.

Thats my point Jordan has been with Phil Longer then Kobe has been with D'Antoni. Not just Jordan but Pippen as well who is the Main CORE of the roster. You can always replace role players and make sure they do their part but its harder to get ur main guys like Dwight and Gasol who is trying to learn a system that does not fit them. On top of that Phil is Great getting players together compare to D'Antoni who doesnt really get along with his players.

This has nothing to do with Kobe being with Phil so thats irrelevant whatever u wrote.

Only point I was making was YOU Kobe haters find whatever you can to bring him down and Never can respect him for what he has done.

If you think Lakers can Make the Playoffs this year without Kobe or even have a Chance I was wasting my time on someone who dont even watch basketball.

Kobe not being a good leader or what not can not be measured but his 5 rings and 2 Rings without Shaq can be.

[guy]

Thats my point Jordan has been with Phil Longer then Kobe has been with D'Antoni. Not just Jordan but Pippen as well who is the Main CORE of the roster. You can always replace role players and make sure they do their part but its harder to get ur main guys like Dwight and Gasol who is trying to learn a system that does not fit them. On top of that Phil is Great getting players together compare to D'Antoni who doesnt really get along with his players.

This has nothing to do with Kobe being with Phil so thats irrelevant whatever u wrote.

Only point I was making was YOU Kobe haters find whatever you can to bring him down and Never can respect him for what he has done.

If you think Lakers can Make the Playoffs this year without Kobe or even have a Chance I was wasting my time on someone who dont even watch basketball.

Kobe not being a good leader or what not can not be measured but his 5 rings and 2 Rings without Shaq can be.

Okay, and your point is irrelevant, because as I pointed out, which you just completely glossed over, a much worse version of Jordan stepped into a worse situation not even playing the game in years, playing with even worse teammates NONE of which he ever played with before, and for a coach who hadn't coached him in 13 years and got similar, arguably better, results.

And if you want to just talk about the year in question, Jordan without Pippen that year was leading his team to a 56-26 pace, and either way, to attribute a 62-20 record to a 37-45 record (Lakers current pace), a 25 win difference, to the fact that Jordan had Phil as a coach before and got to play with Pippen for half the season while D'Antoni and Howard are new for Kobe is completely stupid and pathetic. Like I said, its one thing if they were just underachieving, like they were the 4th-5th seed instead of the 1st-2nd seed, but its so much worse then that.

Ummm, you were the one saying that its not all about talent. So why am I off base there? Chemistry is the issue and if you took such a significant part of the team away, it could be better or it could be worse.

What happened in the past doesn't necessarily apply to now, and his 5 rings doesn't necessarily mean he was ever that great of a leader. It could just mean the talent, chemistry, and other leaders on that team were good enough to compensate for that. And I'm not even saying Kobe should go down as a bad leader. Just that he doesn't seem to be a good one this year, and that he really shouldn't be compared to Jordan in that regard.

[KOBE143]

Why it is so hard for Jordan stans to accept the truth that Kobe at age 34 is better than Jordan same age? Look at their stats, it tells everything.. We know Prime Jordan was slightly better than current Kobe but at age 34, Kobe is no doubt the better player by far..

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Kobe > Shaq.

U Mad fakkit?

:facepalm

[DKLaker]

LMAO at butthurt Bulls fans/Jordan Stans who feel threatened by Kobe's greatness :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe is about to pass Jordan in career 3's made...........BY 1,000 :eek:
Watch the crying start in a game or two.
MJ is the GOAT, Kobe is Great.......just leave it at that....stop trying to bash him :oldlol:

[aau]

counter-factual arguments are fun especially as they
relate to hypothetical conjectures , which are
fact-based in the world of jordan fans

they believe that because their favorite player is
considered by many to be the best player ever
that thru osmosis it makes them GOAT fans

delusional bunch

these are the facts

.

6 title runs

regular season - pippen led jordan in reb & asst every year

post-season - pippen led jordan in reb 5of6 & asst 4of6

finals - pippen led jordan in reb 6 of 6 & asst 4 of 6

all while being the lead defender and avg 20ppg

. . . . . . . . . but jordan did it all by himself

.

.

as it relates to kobe

they're quick to point out that shaq did the same

but what they can't explain is how during shaq's first 8 years

.

from his ROY in 1993 to 2000 ASG MVP

shaq received

ZERO awards and ONE honor

.

his playoff record

18-18 before LA - 1 final and swept 3 times by smits hakeem & luc
14-16 before 2000 kobe and swept twice ostertagged & d-robbed

32-34 postseason record before 00 kobe and swept 5 times

.

.

.

but y'all didn't hear this from me

[OldSchoolBBall]

Funny to see a guy who adamantly stated that Kobe would destroy the 90's to an equal or greater degree than MJ talking about counterfactuals. :oldlol:

[Rysio]

32/5/5 50% vs 28/5/3 46%. really hard choice. :rolleyes:

[Roundball_Rock]

these are the facts


6 title runs

regular season - pippen led jordan in reb & asst every year

post-season - pippen led jordan in reb 5of6 & asst 4of6

finals - pippen led jordan in reb 6 of 6 & asst 4 of 6

all while being the lead defender and avg 20ppg

. . . . . . . . . but jordan did it all by himself

Exactly. We saw Jordan "by himself" in several seasons and the results were abysmal. How many all-time greats have had 5 losing seasons (3 during his youth)?

Jordan fans love to point out the Bulls without Pippen were a top team for half of 1998 (56 win pace as guy note) but conveniently ignore that the Bulls without Jordan, with Pippen were at a 58 win pace in 1994. It was all, Mike, though? :roll:


I've never understood why people just dismiss this. Sure, baseball isn't basketball, but it clearly takes a toll on someone's body. People act like he was cryogenically frozen and then came back the same person and player he was the day he retired.

True, but part of the reason he isn't credited much is because he wasn't playing at the highest level or even the second-highest level. He was playing AA baseball. AA baseball is to baseball what the Arena League is to the NFL or the D-League to the NBA.

He deserve a lot of credit for coming back the first time and quickly resuming his throne as the best player in the league and even the second time he came off of playing absolutely no pro sports for 3 years to 26/5/5 before he got hurt.

The question is why did he retire twice? He was widely considered the best player in the league both in 1993 and 1998 and he walked away nonetheless. No other all-time NBA great has done this. I question whether Jordan in his 17th season could match Kobe in his 17th simply because Jordan was unable to maintain a motivation to play basketball let alone to continue to play at a high level. This is what makes Kareem so impressive and why his GOAT case should not be so casually dismissed. KAJ showed up year after year dedicated to playing at a high level--and did so. He was top 5 in MVP voting and all-NBA first time when he was 38/39. In the playoffs as a 40 year old he was scoring nearly 20 a game.


32/5/5 50% vs 28/5/3 46%. really hard choice.

True. Jordan fans love to invoke these numbers versus Kobe but ignore them vis-a-vis Kareem. Kareem's career numbers--playing from 1969 to 1989--are 25/11/4/3 on 56%. Since MJ only played during 15 years let's compare Kareem through 15 seasons with MJ: 27/13/4/3 on 56%.

27/13/4/3 blocks on 56%>32/5/5 on 50%, no? Do the extra 5 points offset an additional 8 rebounds and only one less assist?