What makes a healthy DRose better than Russell Westbrook?

[eliteballer]

Real talk.

I'm not saying he is or isn't, but you go down the list skill by skill and I don't see where there is some huge difference:confusedshrug:

[andremiller07]

Hes better under pressure, number 1 guy on his team and won a MVP

[Dictator]

They're pretty equal. Drose gets more love because he has a type of "from the streets", and-1, allen iverson type game that people love.

[eliteballer]

Westbrook was pretty beastly in that game 5 of the Finals.

[Whoah10115]

Westbrook deserves to be ranked higher. It's obviously not Rose's fault, but Westbrook has gotten better while Rose has been hurt. I'm sure Rose is getting better, but we have to see it.


His MVP season is not only better than Westbrook last year or Westbrook this year, but the peaks he reached that year were higher than most of Westbrook has done...BUT, I will admit that I was remarkably impressed with Westbrook in the Finals.


Rose has more handles and a better jumpshot. Westbrook is a better passer. We'll see next year, where they are.

[BuffaloBill]

I think Westbrook is more athletic and also a better defender. But he makes too many bonehead plays. Rose is a much better decision maker and ball handler. That's the only real difference

[Replay32]

Rose plays under control better. Rose can actually consistently finish around the rim (with layups).

Westbrook is not an elite finisher around the rim. Dude misses a lot of layups because he's out of control.

[Graviton]

Better shot selection, better finisher around the rim with his layup arsenal, has a floater he can get off vs any defense. Westbrook has a better pullup J, their defense is about a wash with Rose being a man to man pitbull and Westbrook a pest that applies pressures.

Rose put up better numbers on higher percentages as a #1 option with way worse teammates offensively. Guy got doubled at halfcourt quite often he was so dangerous.

[Sarcastic]

Rose doesn't have to share the ball with Durant.

[BuffaloBill]

Rose plays under control better. Rose can actually consistently finish around the rim (with layups).

Westbrook is not an elite finisher around the rim. Dude misses a lot of layups because he's out of control.

He also bricks a lot of easy jumpshots. Westbrook's game is pretty ugly when he's not hot.

[Graviton]

I think Westbrook is more athletic and also a better defender. But he makes too many bonehead plays. Rose is a much better decision maker and ball handler. That's the only real difference
Rose has a higher vertical, better body control/agility and change of direction. Speed and explosiveness are about the same but Rose is more dangerous in the halfcourt with his burst. Westbrook has the durability advantage.

Don't see how he is more athletic.

[BuffaloBill]

Rose doesn't have to share the ball with Durant.


Durant should make Westbrook better. Westbrook bricks way too many wide open jumpers. I don't understand how a player like him stays around the 41-42% range.

[andremiller07]

Rose doesn't have to share the ball with Durant.

They both take the most shots on their team

[Clifton]

There is something very trustworthy about Derrick Rose.

With Westbrook, though, I always feel like it's only a matter of time until he lets me down somehow.

Rose seems to have everything Westbrook has, except throw in Chauncey Billups's intangibles.

[BuffaloBill]

Rose has a higher vertical, better body control/agility and change of direction. Speed and explosiveness are about the same but Rose is more dangerous in the halfcourt with his burst. Westbrook has the durability advantage.

Don't see how he is more athletic.


Durability is a part of it. Also Westbrook showcases his athleticism a lot more.

[Graviton]

They both take the most shots on their team
Rose being a #1 is harder for him as the sole focus of defenders, Westbrook got Durant/Martin and had Harden. There is no one else on the Bulls that anyone respects offensively, they all triple/quadruple Rose in the paint but he still finishes the layup lol.

Just watch and be amazed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8Cx85w-uw

80% of those shots were with 3-4 guys in the post. Imagine him with Durant/Martin lol, wide open 3s all day.

[andremiller07]

Rose being a #1 is harder for him as the sole focus of defenders, Westbrook got Durant/Martin and had Harden. There is no one else on the Bulls that anyone respects offensively, they all triple/quadruple Rose in the paint but he still finishes the layup lol.

Just watch and be amazed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8Cx85w-uw

80% of those shots were with 3-4 guys in the post. Imagine him with Durant/Martin lol, wide open 3s all day.

I agree with you 100% my point was what does it matter that Westbrooke has to share the ball with Durrant when he takes more shots than Durrant and doesn't even do a good job of it.

[Sarcastic]

They both take the most shots on their team

Yea but one is an alpha and one is a beta. Thibs could do most of same things with Westbrook that he does with Rose.

They are both great either way.

[Nash]

Not having Durant.

[gyu]

Basketball IQ

[TaLvsCuaL]

Rose is better decision maker, Westbrook sometimes seems dumb and cost points and possessions.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I think they're equal simply because Rose is a much smarter player and Westbrook is more athletic (Rose has better control) but I honestly think when Westbrook is hot he's better than Rose is when he's on his game.

[Cali Syndicate]

Rose is a better and smarter PG. As a player, overall neither really edges the other. Although Rose might have more controlled nerves in crunch time situations.

[Haymaker]

Rose is the better scorer, simply. Too bad he won't be the same after that devastating injury.

[brandonislegend]

Rose is the better scorer, simply. Too bad he won't be the same after that devastating injury.

You never know, look at Adrian Peterson.

[Haymaker]

You never know, look at Adrian Peterson.

Snowball's chance in hell. Adrian Peterson seems to be a freak of nature.

[Graviton]

Snowball's chance in hell. Adrian Peterson seems to be a freak of nature.
Look at GSP.

[andremiller07]

Look at GSP.

Yeap his face got smashed in last fight lol, thank god they won't let him face the true freak of nature in Anderson Silva

But seriously for a white guy as well hes beyond freakish athletic

[Graviton]

Yeap his face got smashed in last fight lol, thank god they won't let him face the true freak of nature in Anderson Silva

But seriously for a white guy as well hes beyond freakish athletic
He stilk had his explosiveness/quickness on takedowns. ACL injuries in this advanced medical age isn't as serious. I have hope.

[Haymaker]

Look at GSP. Different sports. GSP is not running and jumping for 30+ minutes 82+ days a year not including team practice and scrimmages. Peterson is a better comparison.

[andremiller07]

Different sports. GSP is not running and jumping for 30+ minutes 82+ days a year not including team practice and scrimmages. Peterson is a better comparison.

Lol you'd be suprised how hard training is in MMA, GSP is great comparison

[imdaman99]

they are comparable. rose had a great defense behind him to keep them in the games, which was the main reason he won mvp. not saying he didnt deserve it, he was easily the best player on the team with the best record. but he also went down quietly against the heat once they put lebron on him in the 4th quarters of close games. i dont see westbrook allowing that.

i agree on rose being better decision maker though. westbrooks ceiling is higher now that rose had a major injury.

[Young X]

They're basically equals, the only thing is that I'm not sure if Westbrook would be as effective if he was the best player on his team, getting the same defensive attention that Rose does.

[Graviton]

Different sports. GSP is not running and jumping for 30+ minutes 82+ days a year not including team practice and scrimmages. Peterson is a better comparison.
He is doin something thats much harder lol, training hard 3-4 hours a day for months then fighting for 25 minutes in the cage, his explosiveness takedowns are still there so is his cardio and quickness.

Some NBA players go to work out with UFC camps and come back praising how hardcore their regime is. Running and jumping on a court for 30 minutes every few days isn't supernatural, especially when you don't go all out. 35 year old Duncan/Kobe seem fine lol.

[nathanjizzle]

Real talk.

I'm not saying he is or isn't, but you go down the list skill by skill and I don't see where there is some huge difference:confusedshrug:

i did some stat checks derrick rose mvp season vs russell westbrooks against the top 6 teams in the NBA. from what i remember the stats wernt even close.

rose had 28 points 7 assist and a very winning record
russell westbrook had 19 points and 5 assists. dont remember what the record was.

not exact but it was something along those lines. it wasnt close, and i remember being inferioriated when people tried to say d rose was the same as westbrook that year when it clearly wasnt.

[Zodiac]

Lol..the only D Westbrook plays is pick-pocketing big men.

[Dictator]

i did some stat checks derrick rose mvp season vs russell westbrooks against the top 6 teams in the NBA. from what i remember the stats wernt even close.

rose had 28 points 7 assist and a very winning record
russell westbrook had 19 points and 5 assists. dont remember what the record was.

not exact but it was something along those lines. it wasnt close, and i remember being inferioriated when people tried to say d rose was the same as westbrook that year when it clearly wasnt.


What?

[plowking]

their defense is about a wash with Rose being a man to man pitbull and Westbrook a pest that applies pressures.


Da fuq?

Rose sucks balls on defense. He gets lit up by just about every guard in the league. Westbrook is an absolute beast. If there is a big gap anywhere, its the defensive end. One is terrific, the other putrid.

[Haymaker]

He is doin something thats much harder lol, training hard 3-4 hours a day for months then fighting for 25 minutes in the cage, his explosiveness takedowns are still there so is his cardio and quickness.

Some NBA players go to work out with UFC camps and come back praising how hardcore their regime is. Running and jumping on a court for 30 minutes every few days isn't supernatural, especially when you don't go all out. 35 year old Duncan/Kobe seem fine lol. I understand, I'm just talking about that it's not the same stress on the knees.

[KungFuJoe]

It's all moot anyways. Westbrook is much more durable and whatever edge Rose had over him will be gone when he comes back.

Does anyone seriously think Rose will be even remotely close to what he used to be?

[Bigsmoke]

Rose is a better and smarter PG. As a player, overall neither really edges the other. Although Rose might have more controlled nerves in crunch time situations.

Lol@ Westbrook being an overall scorer as Drose.

[dabulls23]

Westbrook deserves to be ranked higher. It's obviously not Rose's fault, but Westbrook has gotten better while Rose has been hurt. I'm sure Rose is getting better, but we have to see it.


His MVP season is not only better than Westbrook last year or Westbrook this year, but the peaks he reached that year were higher than most of Westbrook has done...BUT, I will admit that I was remarkably impressed with Westbrook in the Finals.


Rose has more handles and a better jumpshot. Westbrook is a better passer. We'll see next year, where they are.

:facepalm

[RoseCity07]

A brain.

[pnyozzzoo]

Rose is not the smartest thinker of the game, more instinct based but definitely not boneheaded and make too many bad decisions like WB.

Aggression and score with certain efficiency, WB chucks too much, WB may have the speed explosion leap or even better body, but his skill wont allow him to drive everytime he wants. WB does not lack intensity effort or the motor but he just seems do not have the skill to get in paint any sec like Rose.

[Graviton]

Da fuq?

Rose sucks balls on defense. He gets lit up by just about every guard in the league. Westbrook is an absolute beast. If there is a big gap anywhere, its the defensive end. One is terrific, the other putrid.
I like all the evidence you presented to back up your bullshit. You obviously haven't watched any Bulls games, name me 1 PG that went off vs Chicago. Rose is a great man to man defender that keeps PGs from driving with his strength. Go look at opposing PG percentages when Rose covers them. There is a reason why Rose dominates other elite PGs in head to head match ups, he tires them out with his offense and keeps them under control on defense. As a matter of fact, when Rose is out, that's when other PGs go ham vs Bulls.

[stevieming]

Rose is better with the flow of the game, Russell only has one pace, and thats full speed, which is great when he is on, but that always lead to mental errors...

case in point in the finals, he was on fire but totally forgot about his team, and then just fouled Chalmers for the dumbest foul ever, especially after timeout, when apparently everyone said no fouls as they only had like 3 seconds on the shotclock!!!!

I feel Rose can get his and also get the ball better to Durant, or at least recognise the need to get the ball to Durant.

I sometimes think Russell is happy that Kevin isn't quite free, so he can go and put up some shots...

Also Russell flat out is a average to below average passer....

[stevieming]

I like all the evidence you presented to back up your bullshit. You obviously haven't watched any Bulls games, name me 1 PG that went off vs Chicago. Rose is a great man to man defender that keeps PGs from driving with his strength. Go look at opposing PG percentages when Rose covers them. There is a reason why Rose dominates other elite PGs in head to head match ups, he tires them out with his offense and keeps them under control on defense. As a matter of fact, when Rose is out, that's when other PGs go ham vs Bulls.
not just that, the other PGs have some much respect/intimidated by him.....when you listen to interviews from other PGs, you can tell they don't enjoy playing against him at all...so mentally he has an edge on them already...

It will be interesting to see how the other PGs guard him when he comes back from injury, as per knee Arenas toyed with all PGs in the league and then when he came back, a lot of PGs were shocked at how much Gilbert had fallen off..

[Graviton]

not just that, the other PGs have some much respect/intimidated by him.....when you listen to interviews from other PGs, you can tell they don't enjoy playing against him at all...so mentally he has an edge on them already...

It will be interesting to see how the other PGs guard him when he comes back from injury, as per knee Arenas toyed with all PGs in the league and then when he came back, a lot of PGs were shocked at how much Gilbert had fallen off..
This article covers it well.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/656564-derrick-roses-dismal-defense-dismissing-disparaging-drivel

[dunksby]

What makes Westbrook better is 'reality' where Russel has never missed a game in his career.

[Graviton]

What makes Westbrook better is 'reality' where Russel has never missed a game in his career.
HEY! There is still hope, God is kind and merciful, Derrick Rose will rise again.

[Odinn]

A brain.

/thread

[Glide2keva]

A brain.

/thread
This ^^^^

[Dragonyeuw]

When healthy I'd say they're both on the same level, each having advantages.

[plowking]

I like all the evidence you presented to back up your bullshit. You obviously haven't watched any Bulls games, name me 1 PG that went off vs Chicago. Rose is a great man to man defender that keeps PGs from driving with his strength. Go look at opposing PG percentages when Rose covers them. There is a reason why Rose dominates other elite PGs in head to head match ups, he tires them out with his offense and keeps them under control on defense. As a matter of fact, when Rose is out, that's when other PGs go ham vs Bulls.

As opposed to all the facts and stats you presented. Look at the Atlanta series from 2 years ago. Jeff Teague had a great series, and it was due to Rose, not because hes some bad ass player. Every time down the court, Teague was in the lane, setting up his teammates. It was even worse when Rose switched onto Crawford on occasions. Crawford in his 30's made young Rose look flat footed and dumb as hell while guarding him.

I hate this notion that people have to hype up a superstar players defense after a certain number of seasons to pretend as if hes improving in all facets of the game. The facts are, Rose is still terrible at defense, one of the worst starting guards at defense in the league. He hedges the wrong way, he lets his player into the paint, he can't stay in front of his man... Hes not even good at playing the passing lanes. He literally is a liability on that side of the court. There is a reason they were exponentially better with CJ Watson in with the starters defensively. I think it was something like 9ppg over the course of the game better. That's ridiculous for one player to have that much impact. Clearly, hes not very good on defense.

[Burgz V2]

Rose knows how to pass the ball

/thread

[KOBE143]

Healthy DRose was the best pg in the league and arguably a top 5 player at worst.. The only thing that Westbrook is better than DRose is durability and anything else is already on DRose favor..

[poido123]

As opposed to all the facts and stats you presented. Look at the Atlanta series from 2 years ago. Jeff Teague had a great series, and it was due to Rose, not because hes some bad ass player. Every time down the court, Teague was in the lane, setting up his teammates. It was even worse when Rose switched onto Crawford on occasions. Crawford in his 30's made young Rose look flat footed and dumb as hell while guarding him.

I hate this notion that people have to hype up a superstar players defense after a certain number of seasons to pretend as if hes improving in all facets of the game. The facts are, Rose is still terrible at defense, one of the worst starting guards at defense in the league. He hedges the wrong way, he lets his player into the paint, he can't stay in front of his man... Hes not even good at playing the passing lanes. He literally is a liability on that side of the court. There is a reason they were exponentially better with CJ Watson in with the starters defensively. I think it was something like 9ppg over the course of the game better. That's ridiculous for one player to have that much impact. Clearly, hes not very good on defense.

Thanks Heat fan. Will read again

[nightprowler10]

Just watch and be amazed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8Cx85w-uw

80% of those shots were with 3-4 guys in the post. Imagine him with Durant/Martin lol, wide open 3s all day.
Thanks man, that was good memories.

[nightprowler10]

Rose isn't necessarily a high IQ player, but he has much better instincts than Westbrook. He has better body control while driving, better touch around the rim, better mid-range jumper (though I haven't Russ this year, he may have improved), and IMO better passing. His defense was mediocre at times during his MVP year and the point about him slacking off on Teague all the time is a good one, but it ignores what all Chicago fans knew by the end of that year that Rose had been ridden hard all year and his legs were giving out. Just watch him play defense last season and he was already starting to look like a much better defender.

The whole "Bulls played better without him" thing is such a fallacy. Here are the facts; in Rose's MVP year, Thibs barely had a plan offensively. By his own admission, his plan was mostly to give Rose the ball and let him create. That's it. You want proof? Go back and watch some of the games from that season and see what happens when CJ Watson was running the floor. Dribble-dribble-dribble-oh-crap-three-seconds-left-somebody-shoot. It was painful to watch the Bulls' offense just completely come to a standstill until Rose came back in. The plays he ran coming out of the timeouts were mediocre at best.

When Thibs' plan, or lack of one, didn't work against Miami in the playoffs, he actually started coaching offense. We saw the result of that last season and this season so far. I mean I really really wish he was doing what he's doing now against Miami. He put everything on a young Rose and expected it to work. What we saw last season with CJ Watson was not a result of the team working better without Rose, it was a result of Thibs finally coaching offense. I'll always maintain that while he deserved CTOY honors, he won that award the wrong year.

[/Rant]

[Whoah10115]

:facepalm



Meant to say playmaker...tho Rose is not a great passer.

[Bigsmoke]

When healthy I'd say they're both on the same level, each having advantages.

Westbrook
-better rebounder
-better at defending 2s
-more durable

Derrick Rose
-better jump shot
-better in the clutch
-better decision maker
-better finisher, body control, more moves in his arsenal especially around the rim "best floater in the NBA"
-much better handles
-more consistent
-better at playing within the flow of the offense
-less turnover prone

I'd much rather build a team around Rose when healthy.

[BlazersDozen]

Rose is a better play maker, maybe better court vision, better basketball IQ, Rose plays under control & with more poise.

[yobore]

There is some irony in the Bulls fans being convinced Rose is still the best PG in the league (or at least > Westbrook) when he comes back when they were the ones writing off Paul's career a couple years ago.

[Bigsmoke]

There is some irony in the Bulls fans being convinced Rose is still the best PG in the league (or at least > Westbrook) when he comes back when they were the ones writing off Paul's career a couple years ago.

i voted for Chris Paul :confusedshrug:

[TeamLAC]

Da fuq?

Rose sucks balls on defense. He gets lit up by just about every guard in the league. Westbrook is an absolute beast. If there is a big gap anywhere, its the defensive end. One is terrific, the other putrid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPdoiC94MY you lose ******* :lol

[plowking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPdoiC94MY you lose ******* :lol

Shane Battier made a near identical mistake on the Golden State game winner. I guess hes a shitty defender too.
:rolleyes:

Next.

[Graviton]

Shane Battier made a near identical mistake on the Golden State game winner. I guess hes a shitty defender too.
:rolleyes:

Next.
"What happens when Derrick Rose plays through defense is that he's very good at fighting through picks, he is tremendous at coming out and challenging jump shots, and he is very hard to get around. And if you're going to say "Jeff Teague" you should be aware that only 28 of the 82 points Teague scored were on Rose.

The fact of the matter is that after Joe Johnson's big first game Rose spent a lot of time guarding him. He also spent a lot of time guarding Jamal Crawford. In total Synergy only charged Rose only with 50 points in the six game series."

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/

Rose isn't a "shitty" defender as you said without any facts, all the advanced numbers show you he is a very good man to man defender. You don't outplay all the elite PGs in this league if you are a shitty defender.

[LikeABosh]

Media hype