This year: Blake Griffin or David Lee?

[Grinder]

Both guys are key players for teams likely to be in the playoffs in the West and two of the best at their position. Both guys play with excellent point guards and in the same division. So who would you say is the better player so far this and the rest of the year?



http://i46.tinypic.com/vxzrj4.png

[Fiasco]

blake

[Darius]

Lee is playing very well this year but I still like Griffin because he has the potential to be better than Lee in any given game.

[Clippersfan86]

It's misleading because Blake had such a subpar first month (worst of his career). Along with that Griffin is a much better defender this year. Griffin's numbers will continue to climb and surpass Lee by season end and he has always had more all around impact. Hard to boost his stats when he's only playing 3 quarters and taking 12 shots due to the Clippers blowing everybody out.

[senelcoolidge]

Griffin easily. Just a better overall player. Don't let the numbers mislead you. Griffin has sat out several 4th quarters. Plus he had a slow start of the season. Lee plays matador defense. Griffin has improved defensively a lot. Plus Griffin does things you don't even see on the box score that help his team.

[Fiasco]

Griffin easily. Just a better overall player. Don't let the numbers mislead you. Griffin has sat out several 4th quarters. Plus he had a slow start of the season. Lee plays matador defense. Griffin has improved defensively a lot. Plus Griffin does things you don't even see on the box score that help his team.

like teabagging

[TheCalmInsanity]

Definitely Griffin, along with the hustle and energy he gets you, he's also only playing 32 minutes per game.

He also started the season injured, wasn't playing well at all. Now that he shook it off, he's been averaging insane numbers in this winning streak while not even playing in the 4th quarter...

[devin112]

Blake plays more then 5 mins less then Lee because Clippers keep blowing out teams, so his numbers are a little lower. Put Blake on GSW, he'll post up career numbers easy.

[Alan]

Kevin Love over both of them.

[B-hoop]

Blake, his defense is much better and the stats are misleading because Blake is playing almost half a quarter less than Lee.

[IGotACoolStory]

Neither if I had the choice. I guess give me the curly haired ginger because they are a more rare specie.

[sundizz]

Is this a troll thread? David Lee is quite possibly the most skilled, best passing PF in the league. He can control a game in ways that Griffin can't. Griffin can score, can pass, can dribble...but it's like the difference between the way Kobe and Lebron manage a game. To one it comes naturally and it flows and puts the teammates at ease. The other (Kobe) forces it and it shows. And this coming from a Kobe fan.

I've watched every Warrior game this season and about 16 Clips games and Lee is better by a large margin. He has the full offensive repertoire and he does not play matador defense. He gets scored on here and there because he doesn't have the length. He is almost always in the right spot and has soft hands. It is the reason he is such a good rebounder. He gets almost all 50/50 balls and keeps the other team to minimal second chance opportunities.

[atljonesbro]

David Lee easily. Anyone with a brain would pick David Lee. Griffin just seems better because he's flashy and on ESPN more often. If you're on ESPN more often according to this forum you're better.

[Heavincent]

David Lee.

[upside24]

Kevin Love over both of them.
Maybe last years Love.

I'm sure he will improve as the season moves along but right now he looks pretty bad.

[bd#1pguard]

Blake plays more then 5 mins less then Lee because Clippers keep blowing out teams, so his numbers are a little lower. Put Blake on GSW, he'll post up career numbers easy.

exactly the no defense style of the warriors inflates the numbers of lee. griffin has many scoring options on his team as well as people that rebound where as lee is the sole inside presence scoring and rebounding wise. griffin by a somewhat large margin.

[Clippersfan86]

exactly the no defense style of the warriors inflates the numbers of lee. griffin has many scoring options on his team as well as people that rebound where as lee is the sole inside presence scoring and rebounding wise. griffin by a somewhat large margin.

Bingo.

[LoneyROY7]

Give me Wake n' Blake Griffin.

[konex]

I like both but Blake's game is more limited. Lee is much more skilled and less reliant on an uptempo game or pure athleticism. I'll take Lee

[Clippersfan86]

I like both but Blake's game is more limited. Lee is much more skilled and less reliant on an uptempo game or pure athleticism. I'll take Lee

Wtf? David Lee has played nothing but uptempo, no defense ball his entire career. Blake can play on the run and in the halfcourt getting fed. He's also a more skilled ballhandler, passer, playmaker, defender. Lee is a high skill player but Griffin's skillset is more unique.

[Heavincent]

Wtf? David Lee has played nothing but uptempo, no defense ball his entire career. Blake can play on the run and in the halfcourt getting fed. He's also a more skilled ballhandler, passer, playmaker, defender. Lee is a high skill player but Griffin's skillset is more unique.

Lee is probably the best passing big man in the league (4 assists per game). He's a better shooter too and is an absolute animal on the glass. I've been watching him since he was a rookie and he has always been one of the best rebounders in the league. His effort and intensity is up there with Faried, and when you match that with his refined skill set...you have yourself an elite PF.

I'd say Lee has been the best or second best big man in the league so far this year. It's close between him and Duncan (would probably give the edge to Duncan though).

[Brujesino]

Wtf? David Lee has played nothing but uptempo, no defense ball his entire career. Blake can play on the run and in the halfcourt getting fed. He's also a more skilled ballhandler, passer, playmaker, defender. Lee is a high skill player but Griffin's skillset is more unique.
Your either way too blind because of Blakes nuts are all in your face or your just stupid.

Have you ever seen Lee play?You can feed him the ball in the post and he can make moves.He can shoot hooks with both his left and right hand.He can spin around defenders because of his skill.

Passing for sure has to go with to David Lee.

Defense can go either way its not like either are lockdown defenders.Actually one on one it may be a tie help defense will probably go to Blake because he can use his athleticism to block shots and that something Lee cant do.

Ball handling honestly who gives a shit i wouldnt want my PF to ball holding on to the ball for long periods of time anyway just give it up to a guard and set a screen or go get post position.

The only thing unique about blake is his athleticism nothing else.

[Whoah10115]

Griffin got off to a bad start but the bad start is part of the season.


So far, Lee has been the better player. Lee is the best player on the Warriors, no doubt. Lee is deserving of an All-NBA spot right now. He has been absolutely terrific.


Griffin has gotten better as a player, even if his overall season isn't as good as last season, so far...but I do think he's the better player, already.

[The Nets]

Blake Griffin has been declining, David Lee is having his career season. Griffin won by a mile last season, but Id take David Lee this time.

[Meticode]

Hard choice. I haven't seen much improvement with Griffin the last 2 years. He's been playing at nearly the same level since his rookie season. David Lee is playing at his absolutely best that he ever will in his career. Right now he's a second option on almost any team and he knows his role of this sense the beginning of his career.

Griffin on the other hand feels he's a first option, but he's never developed into this yet fully. His potential is untapped so far while Lee has tapped his.

[Graviton]

Lee is probably the best passing big man in the league (4 assists per game). He's a better shooter too and is an absolute animal on the glass. I've been watching him since he was a rookie and he has always been one of the best rebounders in the league. His effort and intensity is up there with Faried, and when you match that with his refined skill set...you have yourself an elite PF.

I'd say Lee has been the best or second best big man in the league so far this year. It's close between him and Duncan (would probably give the edge to Duncan though).
Scoring/Shooting wise, Aldridge/Bosh>Lee
Defense, Noah/Duncan>Lee
Passing, Noah/M. Gasol>Lee

He is basically the #1 option on a team playing no defense and allowing 100+ constantly, jesus against Kings they allowed 130 points. They spend ALL their energy on offense. Lee's numbers have been nice but he hasn't actually been better than Z-Bo, Duncan, Griffin, Noah, Aldridge, Gasol. He is just statpadin on a team with no other rebounders.

[Clippersfan86]

Your either way too blind because of Blakes nuts are all in your face or your just stupid.

Have you ever seen Lee play?You can feed him the ball in the post and he can make moves.He can shoot hooks with both his left and right hand.He can spin around defenders because of his skill.

Passing for sure has to go with to David Lee.

Defense can go either way its not like either are lockdown defenders.Actually one on one it may be a tie help defense will probably go to Blake because he can use his athleticism to block shots and that something Lee cant do. Lee is doing great with assists this year but he doesn't have a ball dominant PG like CP3 and plays on a much faster tempo team.

Ball handling honestly who gives a shit i wouldnt want my PF to ball holding on to the ball for long periods of time anyway just give it up to a guard and set a screen or go get post position.

The only thing unique about blake is his athleticism nothing else.

Blake is a career 3.5 apg player and sets up a ton of plays for us. Get back to me when Lee regularly gets a rebound, runs the break and makes a difficult, bullseye pass like Griffin does all the time. Defense doesn't go either way. Griffin is a very respectable defender this year, Lee isn't.

Also as already mentioned Lee plays with nowhere near the talent Blake does so it's much easier to put up numbers. Lee has never come close to rookie Blake numbers and likely never will.

Lee is a more versatile post up player but Griffin is a better finisher and shooter from midrange this year.

[Clippersfan86]

Let me put it in simpler terms. This year Lee is playing better so far but isn't the bettwr player generally speaking.

[Brujesino]

Blake is a career 3.5 apg player and sets up a ton of plays for us. Get back to me when Lee regularly gets a rebound, runs the break and makes a difficult, bullseye pass like Griffin does all the time. Defense doesn't go either way. Griffin is a very respectable defender this year, Lee isn't.

Also as already mentioned Lee plays with nowhere near the talent Blake does so it's much easier to put up numbers. Lee has never come close to rookie Blake numbers and likely never will.

Lee is a more versatile post up player but Griffin is a better finisher and shooter from midrange this year.

Lee isnt a respectable defender this year?You are just as stupid as i thought.Truth is his defense has improved hes not great but hes not awful.Same with Blake hes also not awful but not great.Stop overrating his improvement.

Where did Blakes rookie stats get him?Stats arent everything either.Blake doesnt show much leadership while Lee does.Unless you call trying to put your nuts in a guys face while hes sitting down leadership because you know some of his team did join him.x

No way Blake is a better mid range shooter either.Zero chance.Blake takes wide open mid range shots because the defense lets him.Keep in mind WIDE OPEN.Lee can shoot the mid range shot while defended and can also shoot it open.Blake cant.Offensively all that Blake has on Lee is dunks.

[Brujesino]

Let me put it in simpler terms. This year Lee is playing better so far but isn't the bettwr player generally speaking.
You just made a list saying that Blake was better at everything,which inflated stats or not most are just not true.

[Clippersfan86]

You just made a list saying that Blake was better at everything,which inflated stats or not most are just not true.

Quit talking out of your ass while accusing me of being a homer and put out some facts and evidence like I'm about to do.

Blake Griffin's defense has been good, not "not bad". Synergy Sports says he's been the 24th best defender in the NBA this year which is amazing considering how terrible he was in the first two years. Lee on the other hand is ranked 149th. Then you look at defensive rating.. Griffin is at 96 which is around Ben Wallace's career average. David Lee on the other hand is at 104 defensive rating which would be considered below average.

Then you wanna talk about passing? The PER 36 assists are pretty much identical but the difference is Blake actually creates a bunch of our offense as a whole. Outside of CP3 nobody else sets up scoring opportunities on the team like Blake. Blake is a career 3.5 apg player, Lee is at 2.5 apg career.

Scoring? Griffin is shooting the jumper better than Lee this year and scoring better in the deep post and at the rim. In otherwords sure Lee has a more expansive post game (he's been in the league 3 times as long to develop) but in terms of production and efficiency Griffin still has him beat. Even with Griffin's career worst first month of this season he's scoring more than Lee PER 36 by 1.5 ppg.

In otherwords the only thing Lee is better at is rebounding. It's still only about a third of the way through the season and by season end I'm 100 percent certain even raw statistics Griffin will be ahead.

For the sake of purely summing it up for this season though...


Scoring= Griffin
Efficiency=Griffin
Defense=Griffin
Passing=Equal
Rebounding=Lee


Dispute this with facts or GTFO.

[La Frescobaldi]

Quit talking out of your ass while accusing me of being a homer and put out some facts and evidence like I'm about to do.

Blake Griffin's defense has been good, not "not bad". Synergy Sports says he's been the 24th best defender in the NBA this year which is amazing considering how terrible he was in the first two years. Lee on the other hand is ranked 149th. Then you look at defensive rating.. Griffin is at 96 which is around Ben Wallace's career average. David Lee on the other hand is at 104 defensive rating which would be considered below average.

Then you wanna talk about passing? The PER 36 assists are pretty much identical but the difference is Blake actually creates a bunch of our offense as a whole. Outside of CP3 nobody else sets up scoring opportunities on the team like Blake. Blake is a career 3.5 apg player, Lee is at 2.5 apg career.

Scoring? Griffin is shooting the jumper better than Lee this year and scoring better in the deep post and at the rim. In otherwords sure Lee has a more expansive post game (he's been in the league 3 times as long to develop) but in terms of production and efficiency Griffin still has him beat. Even with Griffin's career worst first month of this season he's scoring more than Lee PER 36 by 1.5 ppg.

In otherwords the only thing Lee is better at is rebounding. It's still only about a third of the way through the season and by season end I'm 100 percent certain even raw statistics Griffin will be ahead.

For the sake of purely summing it up for this season though...


Scoring= Griffin
Efficiency=Griffin
Defense=Griffin
Passing=Equal
Rebounding=Lee


Dispute this with facts or GTFO.

Not saying this is end all, be all but I've liked CBS Sports rankings for a long time....... they usually have a pretty good line on that kinda stuff

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings

[Heavincent]

How is Griffin a better scorer than Lee? Lee is scoring more points on about the same FG% (much better FT%) and is one of the most skilled big men in the game. He has it all offensively. You can go to him in the post, he can hit the mid range jumper, and he is arguably the best passer among big men. What can't he do offensively? He doesn't dominate the ball, but he can still create his own shot (and create for others) with his refined skills.

And lets not forget that David Lee is probably the best player on his team and has them well above .500. Sure, Lee wouldn't be the best player on the Clippers, but I don't think the Warriors would be quite as good with Griffin instead of Lee.

There's no doubt Griffin is improving. I just want to see him develop a better post game so he can become a true go-to guy in the half court.

[B-hoop]

:wtf: can't you people read the OP, Blake is averaging almost 6 less minutes per game and he still is scoring pretty much the same ppg as Lee!

[Al Thornton]

How is Griffin a better scorer than Lee? Lee is scoring more points on about the same FG% (much better FT%) and is one of the most skilled big men in the game. He has it all offensively. You can go to him in the post, he can hit the mid range jumper, and he is arguably the best passer among big men. What can't he do offensively? He doesn't dominate the ball, but he can still create his own shot (and create for others) with his refined skills.

And lets not forget that David Lee is probably the best player on his team and has them well above .500. Sure, Lee wouldn't be the best player on the Clippers, but I don't think the Warriors would be quite as good with Griffin instead of Lee.

There's no doubt Griffin is improving. I just want to see him develop a better post game so he can become a true go-to guy in the half court.

come on stop it. you can't rely on david lee in the post at all. he is capable of scoring in the post and can score a few times a game in the post but that isn't his game at all. griffin has one of the best post games in the nba. clippers can go to him 5 straight possessions in a row and he will either score or get fouled or get an assist on all 5 possessions. that's never ever happening with david lee. david lee is also never getting double teamed when he posts up. blake almost always is getting doubled. the clippers would still be pretty good with lee instead of griffin because they have one of the most talented teams in the nba and lee can fill the david west role with paul.

griffin has some ugly shots in the post sometimes. that doesn't make his game inside ineffective, stop being silly.

he has been a "true go-to guy in the half court" for the past three seasons, and it's very clear and obvious.

[Clippersfan86]

:wtf: can't you people read the OP, Blake is averaging almost 6 less minutes per game and he still is scoring pretty much the same ppg as Lee!

They choose to avoid that fact. Griffin is scoring 20.5 PER 36 to Lee's 19. Not to mention he's more efficient from pretty much everywhere this year. This is with Griffin playing with better scorers.

[B-hoop]

Not saying this is end all, be all but I've liked CBS Sports rankings for a long time....... they usually have a pretty good line on that kinda stuff

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings

:roll:

Lee is the 6 best player in the NBA according to that :facepalm

[Batz]

:roll:

Lee is the 6 best player in the NBA according to that :facepalm
Yeah, he happens to be playing really well in comparison to the rest of the league... What so troubling to comprehend here?

[B-hoop]

Ok, so you agree that he is playing better than CP3 and Tim Duncan?

[bdreason]

David Lee has been the superior player this year, hands down. The entire offense runs through Lee.


Going forward the obvious choice is Griffin, because of his potential.

[Batz]

Ok, so you agree that he is playing better than CP3 and Tim Duncan?
Offensively, yes. Just a tad bit, not a mammoth amount. Is it really hard to believe that a 6'10 white boy from Missouri who hasn't accomplished much in his career happens to be playing slightly better offensively 26 games into the season than some big-name players? No? Well, **** you.

[bdreason]

And in response to some of the nonsense in this thread;


Lee is scoring on higher %'s despite playing more minutes and having a higher usage rate. Not the mention that he doesn't get nearly as many transition dunks as Griffin.

Lee is a better at both scoring from the post and passing from the post. Anyone who thinks Griffin is a better passer than Lee is smokin too much weed.

Lee has the better midrange shot, and it isn't even close.


Griffin is a better defender, and has really impressed me with his improvement this year.

Griffin is a better transition player because of his athleticism.



I think both guys are about equal in regards to rebounding. Lee is better at boxing out and positioning, but Griffin is more physical and really gets up for rebounds.

[Al Thornton]

david lee has a prettier post game than blake griffin, that is fine to say. he doesn't have a more effective post game than blake. and he isn't relied on to have one, which works out well for the warriors.

[Batz]

david lee has a prettier post game than blake griffin, that is fine to say. he doesn't have a more effective post game than blake. and he isn't relied on to have one, which works out well for the warriors.
Dammit Al, go to sleep - you're high.

[bdreason]

david lee has a prettier post game than blake griffin, that is fine to say. he doesn't have a more effective post game than blake. and he isn't relied on to have one, which works out well for the warriors.


The entire Warrior offense runs through Lee on the high post. Watch a Warriors game sometime homie.

[Al Thornton]

Dammit Al, go to sleep - you're high.

im not high at all and its only 9, im not going to sleep sorry. 8-(

[Brujesino]

Not saying this is end all, be all but I've liked CBS Sports rankings for a long time....... they usually have a pretty good line on that kinda stuff

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings
So David Lee is the 6th best player right now:pimp:

[Batz]

im not high at all and its only 9, im not going to sleep sorry. 8-(
Well that ain't right bro.

[B-hoop]

Offensively, yes. Just a tad bit, not a mammoth amount. Is it really hard to believe that a 6'10 white boy from Missouri who hasn't accomplished much in his career happens to be playing slightly better offensively 26 games into the season than some big-name players? No? Well, **** you.

:wtf: who the hell said it was a ranking based on offense? Read the site before you say stupid shit. :facepalm

[Al Thornton]

The entire Warrior offense runs through Lee on the high post. Watch a Warriors game sometime homie.

i don't have league pass and don't want to homie. blake only plays in the low post and is much better at it then lee.

[Batz]

:wtf: who the hell said it was a ranking based on offense? Read the site before you say stupid shit. :facepalm
TPR is heavily lop-sided towards offensive statistics...


Stupid shit.

[NuggetsFan]

Dispute this with facts or GTFO.

I've never seen a person twist statistics\logic around to fit their agenda as much as you do. First you talk about assists, how B.Griffin is a 3.5 guy compared to David Lee being 2.5 but than you turnaround and talk about Griffin being a better jump shooter for 1\4th of the year and not acknowledging the fact that Lee has had a better jumper for their careers. Like you did with assists. Not to mention the PER36 thing. I've never understood that, who cares about hypotheticals? Numbers aren't linear in the NBA. If you average 5 points in 10 minutes, it's not a guarantee you'll average 10 points in 20 minutes. So using PER36 so you can determine Blake Griffin is a 1.3 or whatever per game scorer is ridiculous.

I understand taking into account a guy playing less minutes but obviously every situation is different. Can't make up what you think would happen in those extra 5 minutes based on 32 minutes of previous gameplay.

Give me Lee so far but it'll be Griffin by the end of the season IMO. Blake's a better player, don't see Golden State's hot start continuing at this pace. Griffin was awful at the start of the year and is starting to come around now, while Lee has GS off to an amazing start and is playing at a high level.

[Batz]

I've never seen a person twist statistics\logic around to fit their agenda as much as you do.
Preaching the truth. :oldlol:

[B-hoop]

TPR is heavily lop-sided towards offensive statistics...


Stupid shit.

So? Thats exactly the point i was making. David Lee isn't the 6th best player in the NBA this season.

Offensively? Maybe.

But that isn't what they were ranking, if it were then they should've changed the name of their ranking to OPR. Don't you think so? If not, **** you

[Batz]

If not, **** you
Now that's just inappropriate.

[B-hoop]

:cheers:

[Al Thornton]

Offensively? Maybe.

no not maybe. definitely not maybe.

[Clippersfan86]

And in response to some of the nonsense in this thread;


Lee is scoring on higher %'s despite playing more minutes and having a higher usage rate. Not the mention that he doesn't get nearly as many transition dunks as Griffin.

Lee is a better at both scoring from the post and passing from the post. Anyone who thinks Griffin is a better passer than Lee is smokin too much weed.

Lee has the better midrange shot, and it isn't even close.


Griffin is a better defender, and has really impressed me with his improvement this year.

Griffin is a better transition player because of his athleticism.



I think both guys are about equal in regards to rebounding. Lee is better at boxing out and positioning, but Griffin is more physical and really gets up for rebounds.

According to the numbers this year David Lee isn't a better midrange shooter last I saw. Lee has a tad bit higher TS% due to him shooting an awesome 81+ percent from the stripe but Blake is more effective on the low block and hitting the jumper more consistently this year.

Blake has a PER of 23.5, Lee 21. Griffin has SIGNIFICANTLY more win shares per minute meaning his overall contribution to wins. Blake has a near equal offensive rating while having a SIGNIFICANTLY better defensive rating. Blake also has better on and off court differential numbers. In otherwords Blake's raw stats may be less due to less minutes this year and more talent around him than Lee but all metrics show Griffin having a superior impact and all around game.

Another thing that people continuously dodge in this thread is how Griffin is doubled constantly and Lee isn't. Teams don't game plan for Lee, they do for Griffin. Not to mention the Warriors play in a system that caters to players like Lee. Sure they are pretty solid defensively this year but the Warriors are still not far from a run and gun team where they rank 6th in pace to the Clippers 18th. Griffin actually has LESS transition buckets than Lee this year believe it or not.

[bdreason]

It's Christmas eve let's keep it civilized gentlemen. :cheers:

[Clippersfan86]

Just got the exact numbers on the shooting chart from Hoopsdata.

Blake Griffin is shooting 54 percent from 10-15 feet this year and 41 percent from 16-22 feet.

David Lee is shooting a pretty atrocious 30 percent from 10-15 feet this year :lol and 44 percent from 16-22 feet.


In otherwords Griffin is a better shooter this year by quite a bit outside of the paint and inside the 3 point line (midrange, high post).

I guess that about puts the nail on the coffin in the whole Lee is a significantly better shooter this year talk.

[Batz]

Just got the exact numbers on the shooting chart from Hoopsdata.

Blake Griffin is shooting 54 percent from 10-15 feet this year and 41 percent from 16-22 feet.

David Lee is shooting a pretty atrocious 30 percent from 10-15 feet this year :lol and 44 percent from 16-22 feet.


In otherwords Griffin is a better shooter this year by quite a bit outside of the paint and inside the 3 point line (midrange, high post).

I guess that about puts the nail on the coffin in the whole Lee is a significantly better shooter this year talk.
Meanwhile... There are about three players participating in the contesting of David Lee's jumper whilst Blake is throwing rocks into the open sea.


**** yo nail, boii.

[brandonislegend]

You guys realize people are guarding David Lee all the way to the out mid range and they leave Blake griffin wide open on every single jumper right

[Clippersfan86]

I've never seen a person twist statistics\logic around to fit their agenda as much as you do. First you talk about assists, how B.Griffin is a 3.5 guy compared to David Lee being 2.5 but than you turnaround and talk about Griffin being a better jump shooter for 1\4th of the year and not acknowledging the fact that Lee has had a better jumper for their careers. Like you did with assists. Not to mention the PER36 thing. I've never understood that, who cares about hypotheticals? Numbers aren't linear in the NBA. If you average 5 points in 10 minutes, it's not a guarantee you'll average 10 points in 20 minutes. So using PER36 so you can determine Blake Griffin is a 1.3 or whatever per game scorer is ridiculous.

I understand taking into account a guy playing less minutes but obviously every situation is different. Can't make up what you think would happen in those extra 5 minutes based on 32 minutes of previous gameplay.

Give me Lee so far but it'll be Griffin by the end of the season IMO. Blake's a better player, don't see Golden State's hot start continuing at this pace. Griffin was awful at the start of the year and is starting to come around now, while Lee has GS off to an amazing start and is playing at a high level.

I think career wise Lee is a better shooter obviously. I mean the guy is a jumpshooting big offensively so that's his specialty. It had nothing to do with hypocrite but rather specifically me disputing people saying THIS YEAR Lee is a better shooter by a long ways.

I disagree with projections not being valid because they are. 80+ percent of the time PER 36 is the best way to project which player is going to explode when they get opportunity. In this case we know Griffin is a perennial all star who would produce more in more minutes and with more shots. It's pretty common lately to see the guy rack up 20/10 games to go with a few steals and assists in just 3 quarters.

It's ridiculous to say a player playing 5.5 more minutes and taking more shots isn't going to get a boost in his stats when both are all star caliber players. Not to mention the bigger issues here like Lee playing in an offensive, uptempo system with less talent to share the ball with.

[bdreason]

I don't really care what the numbers say to be honest, I watch almost every Warriors and Clippers game, and D. Lee's jumper is far superior to Griffins. The fact that someone would even claim Griffin has a better jumper is mind boggling.

[Clippersfan86]

You guys realize people are guarding David Lee all the way to the out mid range and they leave Blake griffin wide open on every single jumper right

You realize teams don't game plan for David Lee or double team him the way they do with Griffin right? Griffin is getting contested a lot more on his shot the last 2 or 3 weeks.

[Batz]

I think career wise Lee is a better shooter obviously. I mean the guy is a jumpshooting big offensively so that's his specialty. It had nothing to do with hypocrite but rather specifically me disputing people saying THIS YEAR Lee is a better shooter by a long ways.

I disagree with projections not being valid because they are. 80+ percent of the time PER 36 is the best way to project which player is going to explode when they get opportunity. In this case we know Griffin is a perennial all star who would produce more in more minutes and with more shots. It's pretty common lately to see the guy rack up 20/10 games to go with a few steals and assists in just 3 quarters.

It's ridiculous to say a player playing 5.5 more minutes and taking more shots isn't going to get a boost in his stats when both are all star caliber players. Not to mention the bigger issues here like Lee playing in an offensive, uptempo system with less talent to share the ball with.
It's like arguing Dwight vs Bynum circa 2011. :oldlol:

You realize teams don't game plan for David Lee or double team him the way they do with Griffin right? Griffin is getting contested a lot more on his shot the last 2 or 3 weeks.
Now this, this shit gotta be framed.

[Clippersfan86]

I don't really care what the numbers say to be honest, I watch almost every Warriors and Clippers game, and D. Lee's jumper is far superior to Griffins. The fact that someone would even claim Griffin has a better jumper is mind boggling.

In general Lee is a more gifted shooter and career wise is a no brainer better shooter. That being said the dude is shooting 37 percent from midrange this year (10-22 feet) after what 28 games? So it's not unreasonable to say THIS YEAR, RIGHT NOW Griffin is shooting better. Lee's having a career low shooting year, Griffin a career best so far from midrange.

Bottom line is this year Griffin knocks it down more often and more consistently.

[Cali Syndicate]

According to the numbers this year David Lee isn't a better midrange shooter last I saw.

According to the numbers, Dwight Howard has been a good midrange shooter. Doesn't mean he is.

And Lee is easily the better offensive player right now.

[winwin]

I don't really care what the numbers say to be honest, I watch almost every Warriors and Clippers game, and D. Lee's jumper is far superior to Griffins. The fact that someone would even claim Griffin has a better jumper is mind boggling.
this

oh and David Lee >> Griffin

[Whoah10115]

Both are great and I think Griffin is ahead right now. But I think bdreason is 100% right. Lee is the main cog in that Warrior offense. Curry is far from a true PG and he has Thompson as his partner. That's why Jack is so important. And that's also the big gap that Lee fills. Griffin is a better dynamic playmaker. Lee facilities the offense tho.

[Clippersfan86]

According to the numbers, Dwight Howard has been a good midrange shooter. Doesn't mean he is.

Lee is easily the better offensive player right now.

Like I said.. he scores less per minute, is shooting worse from midrange, is finishing worse in the paint... I'd love to know where Lee is a better scorer outside of free throw shooting?

[Al Thornton]

Lee is easily the better shooter/passer right now.


there that's fine. now cool it.

[Brujesino]

You realize teams don't game plan for David Lee or double team him the way they do with Griffin right? Griffin is getting contested a lot more on his shot the last 2 or 3 weeks.
Ya cuz hes just a scrub averaging 20ppg and 11rpg on 54% shooting.Teams just forward his tapes in the film rooms.

Meanwhile the gameplan for Blake is to let him shoot midrange shots.

[Clippersfan86]

Both are great and I think Griffin is ahead right now. But I think bdreason is 100% right. Lee is the main cog in that Warrior offense. Curry is far from a true. PG and he has Thompson as his partner. That's why Jack is so important. And that's also the big gap that Lee fills. Griffin is a better dynamic playmaker. Lee facilities the offense tho.

Interesting and fair way of looking at it. Griffin seems better at playmaking, especially on the fly but this year Lee is more involved in the offensive flow of his team.

[Clippersfan86]

Ya cuz hes just a scrub averaging 20ppg and 11rpg on 54% shooting.Teams just forward his tapes in the film rooms.

Meanwhile the gameplan for Blake is to let him shoot midrange shots.

He's not a scrub. He's a deserving all star and a great PF who's playing great this year. I'm just saying teams send 3 defenders in the paint at Griffin and flagrantly foul him nonstop. Do they have to do the same to stop Lee? Do they send doubles once Lee catches down low?

[Brujesino]

Actually it makes sense that Lee is has big numbers no NBA teams study film on him or gameplan for him.Its like they only see 4 warrior players on the court.

[bdreason]

Lee is a better jumper shooter than Griffin. He's been better his entire career, and unless Griffin makes significant strides in that department, Lee will always be a better shooter. Next you're going to claim Griffin is a better FT shooter. :oldlol:

[Batz]

He's not a scrub. He's a deserving all star and a great PF who's playing great this year. I'm just saying teams send 3 defenders in the paint at Griffin and flagrantly foul him nonstop. Do they have to do the same to stop Lee? Do they send doubles once Lee catches down low?
It's a conspiracy.

[bdreason]

Actually it makes sense that Lee is has big numbers no NBA teams study film on him or gameplan for him.Its like they only see 4 warrior players on the court.


Yes, other teams completely disregard the only guy in the NBA averaging 20/10 on 50%.

[Clippersfan86]

Lee is a better jumper shooter than Griffin. He's been better his entire career, and unless Griffin makes significant strides in that department, Lee will always be a better shooter. Next you're going to claim Griffin is a better FT shooter. :oldlol:

Similar train of thinking to the people who still claim Dirk is the best PF based on what he did 2 years ago. Lee isn't even a top 30 midrange jump shooter this year let alone in Griffin's league so it's stupid to say he's better currently. Is he a more capable shooter and better career wise? Yes. Right now though he's not producing with his shot, Griffin is and nearly 30 games is a big enough sample to make a claim. Maybe by season end it changes but RIGHT NOW Griffin is better in that regard.

[Brujesino]

Yes, other teams completely disregard the only guy in the NBA averaging 20/10 on 50%.
Yup hes a ghost.

David "Ghost" Lee.

[Clippersfan86]

Yes, other teams completely disregard the only guy in the NBA averaging 20/10 on 50%.

Lee has been a 20/10 player in 3 of his 8 career years. Teams honestly haven't paid much attention to him. Which is why he was the most criticized "empty stats" player in the NBA before Love came along.

[Cali Syndicate]

Like I said.. he scores less per minute, is shooting worse from midrange, is finishing worse in the paint... I'd love to know where Lee is a better scorer outside of free throw shooting?

Just answer this. based on numbers, Blake has been converting at a higher % fom 10-23 feet than Kobe. Tell me who is the better shooter?

[Batz]

Lee has been a 20/10 player in 3 of his 8 career years. Teams honestly haven't paid much attention to him. Which is why he was the most criticized "empty stats" player in the NBA before Love came along.
No one takes you seriously.

[bdreason]

My advice would be to watch the game on not rely on stats from 'hoopsdata'. Unless you think a guy who primarily shoots jumpers is shooting 37% and 44% on jumpers yet averaging 54% from the field on the season. And please don't tell me Lee gets more layups/dunks than Griffin, because I'm trying not to lose respect for you man.

[Clippersfan86]

Just answer this. based on numbers, Blake has been converting at a higher % fom 10-23 feet than Kobe. Tell me who is the better shooter?

Blake Griffin is shooting better this year was my only point. I already said generally speaking and resume wise Lee is better.

[Clippersfan86]

My advice would be to watch the game on not rely on stats from 'hoopsdata'. Unless you think a guy who primarily shoots jumpers is shooting 37% and 44% on jumpers yet averaging 54% from the field on the season. And please don't tell me Lee gets more layups/dunks than Griffin, because I'm trying not to lose respect for you man.

It's not relying on stats. It's simply pointing out that when comparing players for a 30 game sample it's important to factor in metrics and dig deeper than raw stats. Lee plays more minutes, takes more shots and has a lower impact and that's the pretty black and white truth.

[Brujesino]

Blake Griffin is shooting better this year was my only point. I already said generally speaking and resume wise Lee is better.
Except when you posted this


Blake can play on the run and in the halfcourt getting fed. He's also a more skilled ballhandler, passer, playmaker, defender

or this


For the sake of purely summing it up for this season though...


Scoring= Griffin
Efficiency=Griffin
Defense=Griffin
Passing=Equal
Rebounding=Lee


Dispute this with facts or GTFO.

so your only point wasnt really that blake is a better shooter but that he shits on David Lee.

[Brujesino]

It's not relying on stats. It's simply pointing out that when comparing players for a 30 game sample it's important to factor in metrics and dig deeper than raw stats. Lee plays more minutes, takes more shots and has a lower impact and that's the pretty black and white truth.
Except here it says that Lee is the 6th best player in the league and contributes to his team therefore having more impact to his team.It counts offense and defense.


The NBA Total Player Ratings are a total player-rating system based on various offensive and defensive statistics. Players increase their scores with every contribution they make to the game

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings

Why didnt you use this stat?

[bdreason]

Less impact? The entire offense runs through Lee. And in your own admission, Griffin plays on a 'stacked' team, that doesn't even need him in the 4th quarter. That was your excuse for him having inferior stats, right?

[Clippersfan86]

Except when you posted this



or this



so your only point wasnt really that blake is a better shooter but that he shits on David Lee.

Yes this year that's valid :confusedshrug: . Fine let's say...

Scoring=Griffin
Defense=Griffin
Passing=Lee
Rebounding=Lee

I think scoring and defense are a bit more valuable for a big than passing+rebounding no?

[Al Thornton]

u have to admit clippersfan is incredibly consistent and takes 0 nights off.

:applause:

[Clippersfan86]

Except here it says that Lee is the 6th best player in the league and contributes to his team therefore having more impact to his team.It counts offense and defense.



http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings

Why didnt you use this stat?

Because it's not a widely used or recognized metric. It actually makes no sense at all. Similarly to how you asked me if Kobe is a worse midrange shooter than Griffin this year based on a metric you honestly want to tell me with a straight face Lee is a top 10 player right now?

[bdreason]

I think scoring and defense are a bit more valuable for a big than passing+rebounding no?



That depends on the roster and what the team needs. I would argue the Warriors wouldn't even be a .500 team without D. Lee. I'm not sure I could argue the same for Griffin and the Clippers.

[Brujesino]

u have to admit clippersfan is incredibly consistent and takes 0 nights off.

:applause:
That much is true.

[bdreason]

...you honestly want to tell me with a straight face Lee is a top 10 player right now?


Based on his contributions and importance to the team and their record, I would say Lee is indeed a top 10 performer this year.

[Clippersfan86]

That depends on the roster and what the team needs. I would argue the Warriors wouldn't even be a .500 team without D. Lee. I'm not sure I could argue the same for Griffin and the Clippers.

Of course the Clippers are less dependent on Griffin, they have a deeper and better team :facepalm . That doesn't mean he's not an equal or better player. Bottom line is... I think Lee deserves mad props. I think he's an all star worthy player this year, top 3-5 PF and a great player. Do you give Griffin the same respect? Outside of acknowledging his much improved D you seem to be underrating the other aspects of his game.

[La Frescobaldi]

Based on his contributions and importance to the team and their record, I would say Lee is indeed a top 10 performer this year.

I probably agree

[Clippersfan86]

Based on his contributions and importance to the team and their record, I would say Lee is indeed a top 10 performer this year.

It would be the first time in NBA history that a top 10 player was ranked 21st in PER, so horribly in defensive metrics and averaged less than 20 ppg I'd be willing to bet. Regardless it's Christmas now. No reason to spend so much time on debating something that will be resolved for us soon anyways.

By season end I think we will have a more definitive answer.

[bdreason]

Of course the Clippers are less dependent on Griffin, they have a deeper and better team :facepalm . That doesn't mean he's not an equal or better player. Bottom line is... I think Lee deserves mad props. I think he's an all star worthy player this year, top 3-5 PF and a great player. Do you give Griffin the same respect? Outside of acknowledging his much improved D you seem to be underrating the other aspects of his game.


Actually I'm a big fan of Griffin, and watch almost every Clippers game. Going forward, I would take Griffin over Lee without a second thought. Griffin is already a better defender and simply a more dynamic player. If Griffin continues to improve on his jumper and playmaking abilities, the sky is the limit.


To be honest, I think Lee is just in the perfect offense for his skill set, and he's thriving in it.

[Clippersfan86]

Actually I'm a big fan of Griffin, and watch almost every Clippers game. Going forward, I would take Griffin over Lee without a second thought. Griffin is already a better defender and simply a more dynamic player. If Griffin continues to improve on his jumper and playmaking abilities, the sky is the limit.


To be honest, I think Lee is just in the perfect offense for his skill set, and he's thriving in it.

What do you mean by more dynamic? Maybe it was somebody else I mistook for you lately that was bashing Griffin. I know it was one of the Warriors fans. I don't know what we are disagreeing about then based on this post? I already said Lee is having the better season but Griffin is the better overall player which is what it sounds like you're saying...

[livinglegend]

Griffin better shooter than Lee :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
Merry Christmas :D

[spiegel]

Griffin is a better passer and runs the floor better. Both are equal scorers with Griffin better in close and Lee has more variety to his game and better shooter. Lee is a better rebounder but Griffins upside is bigger.

[bdreason]

By more dynamic I mean he does things athletically that D. Lee could only dream of on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. These are things that cannot be taught, and can often swing the momentum of games.




And you only lost me when you claimed Griffin was a better shooter, because it honestly isn't close at this stage of their careers.

[Clippersfan86]

By more dynamic I mean he does things athletically that D. Lee could only dream of on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. These are things that cannot be taught, and can often swing the momentum of games.




And you only lost me when you claimed Griffin was a better shooter, because it honestly isn't close at this stage of their careers.

:cheers: well not going to let a little difference like that cause a lengthy debate. At least we mostly see things similarly. Anyways Merry Christmas man.

[SacJB Shady]

Bingo.


Clippersfan86 you are better than this. Bingo? Do you know the Warriors are actually very defense oriented this year? They wouldn't be winning if it wasn't for their defense. Honestly I think that deep down you see Lee as a threat and that you know that people who actually follow league pass instead of ESPN know that Lee is a far better all around player than Griffin. I know you like the Clippers and all, but that's really what I think is going on with you whether you deny it or not. Give Lee respect man. If Griffin didn't have Paul, he probably wouldn't be winning. Every time I watch Lee and Griffin matchup, I'm always thinking Man it's so obvious Lee is better.

[Clippersfan86]

Clippersfan86 you are better than this. Bingo? Do you know the Warriors are actually very defense oriented this year? They wouldn't be winning if it wasn't for their defense. Honestly I think that deep down you see Lee as a threat and that you know that people who actually follow league pass instead of ESPN know that Lee is a far better all around player than Griffin. I know you like the Clippers and all, but that's really what I think is going on with you whether you deny it or not. Give Lee respect man. If Griffin didn't have Paul, he probably wouldn't be winning.

I do give Lee respect. I called him a top 3-5 PF, deserving all star and great player.

[SacJB Shady]

Let me put it in simpler terms. This year Lee is playing better so far but isn't the bettwr player generally speaking.


Well at least you admit this. Remember it's not about who you think is better it's about what they are doing right now, not what you anticipate.

[SacJB Shady]

Of course the Clippers are less dependent on Griffin, they have a deeper and better team :facepalm . That doesn't mean he's not an equal or better player. Bottom line is... I think Lee deserves mad props. I think he's an all star worthy player this year, top 3-5 PF and a great player. Do you give Griffin the same respect? Outside of acknowledging his much improved D you seem to be underrating the other aspects of his game.



Clippersfan they don't have a deeper team per say. That may be the consensus, but it's really Chris Paul that makes the Clippers where they are at. Remember a good portion of your bench used to be guys that played on the losing warriors. We have Landry and Jack. Crawford is back to his 42 pct. Odom is well Odom. So I don't think you can say your bench is superior to ours. Plus with Bogut, I'd say our team is more complete, but your team is a little more veteran like with cp3 being your main advantage.

[Whoah10115]

Clippersfan they don't have a deeper team per say. That may be the consensus, but it's really Chris Paul that makes the Clippers where they are at. Remember a good portion of your bench used to be guys that played on the losing warriors. We have Landry and Jack. Crawford is back to his 42 pct. Odom is well Odom. So I don't think you can say your bench is superior to ours. Plus with Bogut, I'd say our team is more complete, but your team is a little more veteran like with cp3 being your main advantage.



The Clippers are a lot deeper. A lot a lot. There's a reason no one has stand-out stats on that team. They don't even have Hill yet. Their wings are stacked. Decent rotation at center. They could use another PF.

[Clippersfan86]

The Clippers are a lot deeper. A lot a lot. There's a reason no one has stand-out stats on that team. They don't even have Hill yet. Their wings are stacked. Decent rotation at center. They could use another PF.

When Billups and Hill get back they may be considered one of the deepest benches in NBA history if they gel, if they already aren't. Never before in my memory has the bench outplayed the starters on this many occasions. Our bench regularly comes in and turns tie games into blowouts vs other teams starters with their defense.

[SacJB Shady]

The Clippers are a lot deeper. A lot a lot. There's a reason no one has stand-out stats on that team. They don't even have Hill yet. Their wings are stacked. Decent rotation at center. They could use another PF.


But they don't have a lot of depth, so how could they be a lot deeper when they have Odom, Barnes, Crawford, shooting 48 percent, an average center and a 40 year old Hill? What in the world are you smoking?

Chris Paul is the reason they are where they are at.

A lot A lot? The other way around. What are you talking about?

[SacJB Shady]

When Billups and Hill get back they may be considered one of the deepest benches in NBA history if they gel, if they already aren't. Never before in my memory has the bench outplayed the starters on this many occasions. Our bench regularly comes in and turns tie games into blowouts vs other teams starters with their defense.


Deepest bench in history? They are not deep period. Odom? Barnes? Crawford? Turiaf? Maybe Bledsoe is good but other than that a 40 year old Hill and a 38 year old Billups doesn't make them deep at all, let alone one of the deepest in history. WTF?!! Maybe if they were 10 years younger..

[TeamLAC]

Lee is probably the best passing big man in the league (4 assists per game). He's a better shooter too and is an absolute animal on the glass. I've been watching him since he was a rookie and he has always been one of the best rebounders in the league. His effort and intensity is up there with Faried, and when you match that with his refined skill set...you have yourself an elite PF.

I'd say Lee has been the best or second best big man in the league so far this year. It's close between him and Duncan (would probably give the edge to Duncan though). because no one on his team can rebound for shit

[SacJB Shady]

because no one on his team can rebound for shit


Which is why they are a better rebounding team than LA and out rebound their opponent almost every night? Get your facts straight. Now your center can't rebound shit. Don't be lazy and actually look at the stats pal.

[BuffaloBill]

SacJB single handedly taking out the entire ISH Clippers fanbase

[Al Thornton]

Which is why they are a better rebounding team than LA and out rebound their opponent almost every night? Get your facts straight. Now your center can't rebound shit. Don't be lazy and actually look at the stats pal.

our center plays 25 mpg, and a lot of the time even less than that. if he got lee's minutes he would easily average 11+ rebounds per game.

[Whoah10115]

But they don't have a lot of depth, so how could they be a lot deeper when they have Odom, Barnes, Crawford, shooting 48 percent, an average center and a 40 year old Hill? What in the world are you smoking?

Chris Paul is the reason they are where they are at.

A lot A lot? The other way around. What are you talking about?



The problem with your post is you don't know what you're talking about. Shooting 48%...that's a bad percentage? I'm not sure what you mean. Crawford is the runaway 6thMOTY. Barnes has been terrific. Billups, Bledsoe.


They're there because of Chris Paul? Paul hasn't even been one of the top 2 PG's in the league so far this year. Yet, neither of the better PG's have as good a record as the Clippers do. You know why? There we go.

[Clippersfan86]

SacJB single handedly taking out the entire ISH Clippers fanbase

Stop encouraging him dude :oldlol:

[Clippersfan86]

The problem with your post is you don't know what you're talking about. Shooting 48%...that's a bad percentage? I'm not sure what you mean. Crawford is the runaway 6thMOTY. Barnes has been terrific. Billups, Bledsoe.


They're there because of Chris Paul? Paul hasn't even been one of the top 2 PG's in the league so far this year. Yet, neither of the better PG's have as good a record as the Clippers do. You know why? There we go.

Clippers are the number 1 most productive all around bench in the NBA. 1st defensively and something like 3rd or 4th offensively. No other bench has a bigger ALL AROUND impact on games and blows out starting 5's like they do. Not sure what he means by bench not that good.

[Al Thornton]

The problem with your post is you don't know what you're talking about. Shooting 48%...that's a bad percentage? I'm not sure what you mean. Crawford is the runaway 6thMOTY. Barnes has been terrific. Billups, Bledsoe.


They're there because of Chris Paul? Paul hasn't even been one of the top 2 PG's in the league so far this year. Yet, neither of the better PG's have as good a record as the Clippers do. You know why? There we go.

he's not the runaway 6th man. kevin martin is right there, and it will likely be decided by who has the better record and who has the better overall stats.

[bdreason]

Clippers are the deepest team in the league, and they play like it.



When we had Rush and Jefferson, I think the Warriors were also one of the deepest teams in the league. With a healthy Bogut, you're looking at bench squad consisting of Jack, Rush, Barnes, Landry, Ezili, Green, Tyler (I actually like this kids upside) and Biedrins... that's a solid bench.

[SacJB Shady]

SacJB single handedly taking out the entire ISH Clippers fanbase


Well everything I said is at the very least pretty close to accurate. I didn't say that GSW is better, I said that LAC has Chris Paul and that is their main weapon. But I'm looking at their roster and stats right now and what in the heck are they talking about? Half of their bench wouldn't make it on good teams. I could list man for man on the bench and favor my bench. I just don't get these guys. Their players do flourish in a team led by Paul, but I'm not gonna pretend like they have a deep bench just because that was the consensus at the beginning of the year. They have a decent talented team and any Chris Paul is the type of player that can make any team much improved. Take him out of the equation and I don't see a deep bench. I see a weak bench and they really annoy the heck out of me and I think they are doing it on purpose.

[Clippersfan86]

Clippers are the deepest team in the league, and they play like it.



When we had Rush and Jefferson, I think the Warriors were also one of the deepest teams in the league. With a healthy Bogut, you're looking at bench squad consisting of Landry, Jack, Rush, Barnes, Green, Jenkins, Ezili, Tyler (I actually like this kids upside) and Biedrins... that's a solid bench.

Naw I'd say it's a top 5 bench if 100 percent healthy and meshed. Still though lol at saying the Clippers aren't the best bench right now. Scary thing is they are going to get much stronger and deeper when Billups, Hill and our young stretch 4 Thompkins return.

[TeamLAC]

SacJB single handedly taking out the entire ISH Clippers fanbase
he is going full boar against anyone opposing his opinion and then he made that thread "The Warriors won't make the playoffs and how will the fans react?" this reminds me of the bipolarity of CF86

[Cali Syndicate]

Well everything I said is at the very least pretty close to accurate. I didn't say that GSW is better, I said that LAC has Chris Paul and that is their main weapon. But I'm looking at their roster and stats right now and what in the heck are they talking about? Half of their bench wouldn't make it on good teams. I could list man for man on the bench and favor my bench. I just don't get these guys. Their players do flourish in a team led by Paul, but I'm not gonna pretend like they have a deep bench just because that was the consensus at the beginning of the year. They have a decent talented team and any Chris Paul is the type of player that can make any team much improved. Take him out of the equation and I don't see a deep bench. I see a weak bench and they really annoy the heck out of me and I think they are doing it on purpose.

Just the other day you were clownin on the warriors and how they won't even make the playoffs. Pick a side dude

[SacJB Shady]

Clippers are the number 1 most productive all around bench in the NBA. 1st defensively and something like 3rd or 4th offensively. No other bench has a bigger ALL AROUND impact on games and blows out starting 5's like they do. Not sure what he means by bench not that good.


Dude when you have 3 or 4 players that used to play on the Warriors who are on your bench, I can't ever take you seriously. And that was the losing Warriors. Crawford is back to his same ol stats. And then you have Odom on your bench... You could have superstars on the rest of that bench... I mean I don't get you man. Here what I'm saying. Those ex warriors wouldn't be wanted back on the new Warriors. That's a good portion of your bench right there considering there are only 7 bench players. Plus Odom.

[Clippersfan86]

Dude when you have 3 or 4 players that used to play on the Warriors who are on your bench, I can't ever take you seriously. And that was the losing Warriors. Crawford is back to his same ol stats. And then you have Odom on your bench... You could have superstars on the rest of that bench... I mean I don't get you man. Here what I'm saying. Those ex warriors wouldn't be wanted back on the new Warriors. That's a good portion of your bench right there considering there are only 7 bench players. Plus Odom.

:biggums:

[SacJB Shady]

Just the other day you were clownin on the warriors and how they won't even make the playoffs. Pick a side dude


But they SHOULD make the playoffs. I think bad luck seems to follow them. You saw what happened the other game, shit happens.

[SacJB Shady]

:biggums:


Clippersfan, am I not accurate on my post? Did I say something that was entirely wrong? No, Im talking to you man.

[Whoah10115]

Well everything I said is at the very least pretty close to accurate. I didn't say that GSW is better, I said that LAC has Chris Paul and that is their main weapon. But I'm looking at their roster and stats right now and what in the heck are they talking about? Half of their bench wouldn't make it on good teams. I could list man for man on the bench and favor my bench. I just don't get these guys. Their players do flourish in a team led by Paul, but I'm not gonna pretend like they have a deep bench just because that was the consensus at the beginning of the year. They have a decent talented team and any Chris Paul is the type of player that can make any team much improved. Take him out of the equation and I don't see a deep bench. I see a weak bench and they really annoy the heck out of me and I think they are doing it on purpose.



Hey, idiot, since some of those guys can't make other teams then go ahead and explain how they've been the most productive bench this season? You don't know what you're talking about and your posts are actually annoying.



Since they ANNOY you, answer my question, you whiny little bitch.

[Whoah10115]

he's not the runaway 6th man. kevin martin is right there, and it will likely be decided by who has the better record and who has the better overall stats.



I was about to mention him. Crawford comes in with the entire bench and the onus seems to be on him to initiate all the offense and to even do so against starters. Martin comes in and usually plays with the two stars and fits right into the normal offense.

[Brujesino]

this thread got WAAAAAYYYYY more interesting.

Go get'em SacJb:rockon:

[Scholar]

I am going with Lee. I bet if you replace Blake with David Lee on the Clippers, David's year would be even more impressive. He's not playing with a true PG, like BG is.
Replace David Lee w/ BG on the Warriors and I bet his stas worsen. He won't have the pass-first PG backing him.

Blake is obviously the big ticket because he's on SportsCenter so often, but David Lee is more effective.

[tpols]

I wouldn't trust matt Barnes, Lamar Odom or any of their big men Hollins whoever else in the playoffs. Crawford and Bledsoe are obviously legit though

[bdreason]

Odom has actually been looking pretty good the last few games. If he turns the corner, and Hill can play perimeter defense like he did for the Suns? :eek:


I like Billups, but I'm not sure how VDN is gonna find minutes for Paul, Bledsoe, Crawford, and Billups. Anyway you look at, it's taking minutes from Godsoe and Godford, and those guys are what make the Clips bench so dangerous.

[Clippersfan86]

Odom has actually been looking pretty good the last few games. If he turns the corner, and Hill can play perimeter defense like he did for the Suns? :eek:


I like Billups, but I'm not sure how VDN is gonna find minutes for Paul, Bledsoe, Crawford, and Billups. Anyway you look at, it's taking minutes from Godsoe and Godford, and those guys are what make the Clips bench so dangerous.

It's actually not that complicated. Willie Green racks up DNP's like he did the two games Billups came back and Bledsoe's and Crawford's minutes weren't affected.

[SacJB Shady]

Ahh whatever. You guys will make the playoffs and we will lose the last game of the year while the Lakers beat us out. It will happen I tell ya. Ironic is what always happens. I'm already weeping over our missed playoff chance. It will happen, unfortunately. It's just the Warriors nature.

[Al Thornton]

Odom has actually been looking pretty good the last few games. If he turns the corner, and Hill can play perimeter defense like he did for the Suns? :eek:


I like Billups, but I'm not sure how VDN is gonna find minutes for Paul, Bledsoe, Crawford, and Billups. Anyway you look at, it's taking minutes from Godsoe and Godford, and those guys are what make the Clips bench so dangerous.

it gives him a lot of options. if you need defense and want to force turnovers it's obviously gonna be bledsoe. if you need offense and playmaking it's crawford. if you need a calming presence and someone who can hit a big shot it's billups. and depending on the situation you could play 3 guards. he could fck it up, but that's still a great problem to have. and you have 3/4 of a regular season to figure it out.

[FKAri]

Blake Griffin is a puny mortal. I will go with the deity, the kings of kings, the mighty David Lee.

[Darius]

Ahh whatever. You guys will make the playoffs and we will lose the last game of the year while the Lakers beat us out. It will happen I tell ya. Ironic is what always happens. I'm already weeping over our missed playoff chance. It will happen, unfortunately. It's just the Warriors nature.

It suddenly all makes sense.

CF86 created SacJB Shady as an alias to make himself look better.

[Magic bird]

Whoever can defend.

[JerryWest]

David Lee at the moment, but shouldn't we wait till the season actually finishes :confusedshrug:

[BEAST Griffin]

Blake Griffin is on a stacked team with good rebounders and plays less minutes. Put him on the Warriors without Chris "I dribble around for 23 seconds and ignore Blake Griffin" Paul, and he'll put up beastly numbers which David Lee can only dream of.

FACT!!!!

[brandonislegend]

Can't wait til CP3 leaves the Clippers, to see the reaction of Clipper fans that think CP3 is making Griffin worse somehow.

[Fiasco]

Can't wait til CP3 leaves the Clippers, to see the reaction of Clipper fans that think CP3 is making Griffin worse somehow.

cp3 leaving looooooooooooooool

[JohnRuck]

Lee and it's not close

[Ikill]

Clippersfan86 you are better than this. Bingo? Do you know the Warriors are actually very defense oriented this year? They wouldn't be winning if it wasn't for their defense. Honestly I think that deep down you see Lee as a threat and that you know that people who actually follow league pass instead of ESPN know that Lee is a far better all around player than Griffin. I know you like the Clippers and all, but that's really what I think is going on with you whether you deny it or not. Give Lee respect man. If Griffin didn't have Paul, he probably wouldn't be winning. Every time I watch Lee and Griffin matchup, I'm always thinking Man it's so obvious Lee is better.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=griffbl01&p2=leeda02

[Clippersfan86]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=griffbl01&p2=leeda02

What I told them before. Lee has won 2, MAYBE 3 of the 8 matchups. Griffin's completely obliterated him in a way Lee hasn't in some of the games.