The overwhelming splendor and excellence of the Bible cannot be disputed

[BuGzBuNNy]

yup

[Kews1]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23123771.jpg

[vinsane01]

The obscurity of the writings is the reason why there are thousands of christian denominations. Believers simply could not agree on every issue, whether or not a passage is meant to be taken literally or metaphorically; or whether or not a passage could still be applied in today's society. Personal interpretations differ and could also be influenced by cultural and social upbringing, hence geographical location is also major factor in determining what particular denomination you'd adhere to.

[Derka]

Its good if you like fables and fairytales and such.

[Derka]

I'd expect even the most hardcore atheists can acknowledge the greatness (for lack of better term) of the Good Book

Common sense stuff. Do unto others, don't steal and lie, try not to act like a prick. Oral traditions and fables were promoting similar messages to burgeoning civilizations for centuries before the Bible started coming together.

[Derka]

:oldlol: So you think thats a good summary?

Yep. I've read the thing cover-to-cover. Dad's family is devoutly Southern Baptist, Mom's family is strict Roman Catholic. Probably one of the few people in this city who not only had to do Confirmation, but also attended Sunday School a couple times a month.

Its not my intent to slander the Bible by any means, so don't interpret my words as such.

[Derka]

What does this even mean? Unless you're from some heavy atheist area with a small population I find it hard to believe you were 'one of few people in this city' to attend a sunday school. How do you even come to such a conclusion and what are you proving by saying it?

...okay. You've basically ignored the actual substance of my reply in favor of adopting a snarky, defensive tone for no reason and questioning a small point I couldn't possibly offer proof of.

You are the reason that debating on the internet is mostly the province of the retarded.

[kNicKz]

Its good if you like fables and fairytales and such.


Its not my intent to slander the Bible by any means, so don't interpret my words as such.

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2010/7/29/c60ecec2-3291-47cd-b182-729b9e6f080b.jpg

[kNicKz]

I'm not aware of a universe where comparing a religious text to a fairytale isn't offensive, but I'm also not a douchebag so :confusedshrug:

[Patrick Chewing]

Got this for Christmas!


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Ke5T7TAL._SL500_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-big,TopRight,35,-73_OU01_SS500_.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-78qK0DDj9XY/Thj8aCG4ImI/AAAAAAAADpQ/kWbttunUQUo/s1600/ActionBibleSample.jpg

[macmac]

The pages don't burn that consistently so if you're out of zig zags, it's not the greatest alternative....however it does make for a good wipe after you came on a chick in a motel and there's no towels or toilet paper, just the bible in the dresser :confusedshrug:

Don't mistake my words for insults, I am merely proposing modern uses for obsolete fiction. Too many trees have died in the name of Jesus!

[Jello]

The pages don't burn that consistently so if you're out of zig zags, it's not the greatest alternative....however it does make for a good wipe after you came on a chick in a motel and there's no towels or toilet paper, just the bible in the dresser :confusedshrug:

Don't mistake my words for insults, I am merely proposing modern uses for obsolete fiction. Too many trees have died in the name of Jesus!
You're a pretentious douche. Doesn't even have the decency to just stay out of the thread, let alone has to downgrade the value of a literary and historical work such as the bible to "obsolete fiction" Pretty unbelievable that he writes out these little gems of insight while having a google thesaurus on the other tab. Takes a lot of effort to impress your little forum friends, doesnt it? but wait; don't mistake my words as insults, it's just a very clear insight of your shitty self.

[macmac]

You're a pretentious douche. Doesn't even have the decency to just stay out of the thread, let alone has to downgrade the value of a literary and historical work such as the bible to "obsolete fiction" Pretty unbelievable that he writes out these little gems of insight while having a google thesaurus on the other tab. Takes a lot of effort to impress your little forum friends, doesnt it? but wait; don't mistake my words as insults, it's just a very clear insight of your shitty self.

Good one. Hope I impressed you.

[Burgz V2]

OP can post whatever he wants if you dont agree then stay out of the thread.

[Jello]

Good one. Hope I impressed you.
Yes, very impressed. A+ for effort.

[miller-time]

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick

Considering it took the Australian Aboriginals several thousand years before they heared it, I'll stop you right there.

[Nanners]

You're a pretentious douche. Doesn't even have the decency to just stay out of the thread, let alone has to downgrade the value of a literary and historical work such as the bible to "obsolete fiction" Pretty unbelievable that he writes out these little gems of insight while having a google thesaurus on the other tab. Takes a lot of effort to impress your little forum friends, doesnt it? but wait; don't mistake my words as insults, it's just a very clear insight of your shitty self.

Here we are in a thread about the "overwhelming splendor and excellence" of an obsolete fictional book, and you are gonna get all whacked out of shape when someone points out that this obsolete fictional book could actually still be useful for a couple things? You are the pretentious douche.

[Jello]

Here we are in a thread about the "overwhelming splendor and excellence" of an obsolete fictional book, and you are gonna get all whacked out of shape when someone points out that this obsolete fictional book could actually still be useful for a couple things? You are the pretentious douche.
Every university has the Bible as reading in their ancient history curriculum, a core humanities class that is required in nearly every university. It is also a core part of many people's beliefs.
It doesn't surprise me that you think you can degrade something core to someone's belief system to shit and *** rags and then call it useful.
If you think that's okay, then it's obvious you're a pretentious douche as well.

[Kews1]

Too bad that the bible was plagiarized from no less than a dozen sources, in particular these other "Gods" who were before Jesus' time but are remarkably similar to what he is claimed to be...

http://loltheists.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/horus-attis-mithra-krishna-dionysus.jpg

[Kews1]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebzCmt0GidQ/T4EquL8ScoI/AAAAAAAABOY/0mlrA8nLgz0/s1600/horus+THEN+jesus.png

[miller-time]

Every university has the Bible as reading in their ancient history curriculum, a core humanities class that is required in nearly every university. It is also a core part of many people's beliefs.
It doesn't surprise me that you think you can degrade something core to someone's belief system to shit and *** rags and then call it useful.
If you think that's okay, then it's obvious you're a pretentious douche as well.

The bible has had an impact on literature, and it is historically important. However overall it is trash. If it were written today it would be mocked to high heaven. And it isn't a core of peoples beliefs, people pick and choose the bits they like and disregard the bits they don't. Every philosophy filters down to the average person, but if we trashed buddha or socrates or descartes you probably wouldn't care.

[Kews1]

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

http://godwillbegod.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/horus.jpg

[Jello]

The bible has had an impact on literature, and it is historically important. However overall it is trash. If it were written today it would be mocked to high heaven.
:lol That's a good reason to say overall, the Bible is trash. It would be mocked in 2012. Very good reasoning.

And it isn't a core of peoples beliefs, people pick and choose the bits they like and disregard the bits they don't.
The Bible is the most fundamental source of differences in beliefs so yes, it is the core of their beliefs. How does people picking and choosing bits to believe make the core source not the Bible?:hammerhead:

Every philosophy filters down to the average person, but if we trashed buddha or socrates or descartes you probably wouldn't care.
Nice assumption.

[Nanners]

Every university has the Bible as reading in their ancient history curriculum, a core humanities class that is required in nearly every university. It is also a core part of many people's beliefs.
It doesn't surprise me that you think you can degrade something core to someone's belief system to shit and *** rags and then call it useful.
If you think that's okay, then it's obvious you're a pretentious douche as well.

dont really see your point about universities, as most universities read plenty of fiction books in addition to the bible. the illiad for example.

so melodramatic with all your crying about someone degrading your core beliefs as a c*um rag. if my beliefs were actually written down on paper somewhere I would be honored if you used it to wipe up some sex juice.

[Jello]

dont really see your point about universities, as most universities read plenty of fiction books in addition to the bible. the illiad for example.

so melodramatic with all your crying about someone degrading your core beliefs as a c*um rag. if my beliefs were actually written down on paper somewhere I would be honored if you used it to wipe up some sex juice.
Yes, I know you're a douche. You don't have to make it clearer.

[Nanners]

Yes, I know you're a douche. You don't have to make it clearer.


seems like you mad. maybe you should move some place where a larger percentage of the population actually gives a shit when their beloved holy books get disrespected......try the middle east or africa.

[Jello]

seems like you mad. maybe you should move some place where a larger percentage of the population actually gives a shit when their beloved holy books get disrespected......try the middle east or africa.
:mad: Douche, please stahp it. Just stahp.

[Nanners]

:mad: Douche, please stahp it. Just stahp.

once again the fiction book loses against logic and fact

"please stop pointing out that my belief system based on a book about magic that makes no sense.... i cant handle the truth"

[Kews1]

Also the "overwhelming splendor and excellence" of the bible can absolutely be disputed especially because of the numerous errors and contradictions that are in it, or do these errors in OP's opinion add to its greatness... :lol

[miller-time]

How does people picking and choosing bits to believe make the core source not the Bible?:hammerhead:

Because the overall process of picking and choosing is influenced by social and literary sources outside of the bible.

[Jello]

once again the fiction book loses against logic and fact

"please stop pointing out that my belief system makes no sense.... i cant handle the truth"
What logic? You would like people to use your written work as shit rags. Seeing your posts, it would be necessarily a shit rag.
You're on the little hook that it's fiction. It doesn't matter if it's "obsolete fiction" There is plenty of archaeological, historical, and sociological value and insights that you can get from the Bible and its use in history. Continue to be douche because of your disdain for people who have different beliefs than you.

[Kews1]

There is plenty of archaeological, historical, and sociological value and insights that you can get from the Bible and its use in history. Continue to be douche because of your disdain for people who have different beliefs than you.

Theres at the very least a million books that can claim the same thing, what makes this one special?

[Jello]

Because the overall process of picking and choosing is influenced by social and literary sources outside of the bible.
It's a man made literary work that is open to interpretation. I still don't see how society influencing what parts people choose to believe means the Bible isn't a core source of their beliefs.

[maybeshewill13]

"I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees".

[Jello]

Theres at the very least a million books that can claim the same thing, what makes this one special?
Because there is over 6 billion copies worldwide?
Because it was used as tool for political power and gives sociological insight?
Because it is the basis of a religion that has almost 2 billion self proclaimed believers?
Because it has been a significant source for archaeology and descriptions from Biblical text has been used to help discover ancient cities?
Because it has historically corresponding events with early historians?

[Kews1]

Because there is over 6 billion copies worldwide?
Because it was used as tool for political power and gives sociological insight?
Because it is the basis of a religion that has almost 2 billion self proclaimed believers?
Because it has been a significant source for archaeology and descriptions from Biblical text has been used to help discover ancient cities?
Because it has historically corresponding events with early historians?

None of those things essentially mean jack shit or are fundamentally false.

its not a popularity contest the amount of sales hardly influences its validity or greatness,

It has also been used as a tool for evil, political schemes and oppression.

An almost unquestioned basis whereby people are brainwashed as children and no decisions are made based on fact by them when they are capable adults, if you are told that it is true by your parents, teachers, preachers and church when you are young you will inevitable believe it, at least untill you do the research yourself and make an informed decision - which almost nobody does, people are shocked when the realize how flawed it is.

Like what? What places have been found that would not have been found without guidance from the bible and what about the many places revealed in the bible have never been found - Where is the Garden of Eden? Where is Lazarus Tomb? Where is Jesus' Tomb? - And what about the fact that these ancient cities you claim the bible help to find have maintained their names since the time of the writing of the bible, how hard is it to find if it has been called the same thing for 2000 years? What about the numerous cities named in the bible that have never been found?

I dont even know what the **** your last thing means

Your a ****ing half-wit, GTFOH

[Jello]

None of those things essentially mean jack shit or are fundamentally false.
What? It does have value in a wide range of subjects.


its not a popularity contest the amount of sales hardly influences its validity or greatness,
That's why it has its value in sociology. 2 billion people still believing in Christianity is not a worthy phenomenon to study?

It has also been used as a tool for evil, political schemes and oppression.
Um yeah. That's why its important to study how it was used historically and sociologically.


An almost unquestioned basis whereby people are brainwashed as children and no decisions are made based on fact by them when they are capable adults, if you are told that it is true by your parents, teachers, preachers and church when you are young you will inevitable believe it, at least untill you do the research yourself and make an informed decision - which almost nobody does, people are shocked when the realize how flawed it is.

This has nothing to do with the post you responded too.

Like what? What places have been found that would not have been found without guidance from the bible and what about the many places revealed in the bible have never been found - Where is the Garden of Eden? Where is Lazarus Tomb? Where is Jesus' Tomb? - And what about the fact that these ancient cities you claim the bible help to find have maintained their names since the time of the writing of the bible, how hard is it to find if it has been called the same thing for 2000 years? What about the numerous cities named in the bible that have never been found?
I never said that the Bible is an infallible source of archaeology. Archaeologists use literary works like the Bible and Illead to look for clues to pick a site to excavate. Do they excavate with no reference?


I dont even know what the **** your last thing means

Your a ****ing half-wit, GTFOH
It's because you're the halfwit. It's basically saying that the Bible has some historical value. Your post reads like you think I'm arguing for the Bible as infallible and that I believe in it. If you do think that, you made a horrible assumption. If you want my opinion, the Bible and religion are man made social phenomena and they need to be studied to get an accurate picture of the ancient world.

[Kews1]

Poor reply, bad job, bad effort

[Just2McFly]

Its good if you like fables and fairytales and such.
Didnt have to scroll far.

The bible is a great book with many lessons that a lot of people could learn from and apply to their lives.

[lakers_forever]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebzCmt0GidQ/T4EquL8ScoI/AAAAAAAABOY/0mlrA8nLgz0/s1600/horus+THEN+jesus.png

No that Zeitgeist BS again. :lol A bunch of BS made up by a 19th century poet named Gerald Massey. No respected historian in the world claim those "facts" about those deities.

Read it and learn http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one An article ((with all the references) made by a non christian debunking all that BS.

Even militant atheists like historian Richard Carrier and those guys from the Atheist Experience show think Zeitgeist is BS.

Example: Horus wasn't born of a virgin, on the 25th dec, a teacher at 12, he wasn't crucified, he did not ressurect, he wasn't know as the Light, God's sheperd. There were no star in the east, no 12 disciples. It's all made up by Gerald Massey (lamer in history).

From wikipedia:



Claimed parallels between Horus and Jesus

One of the more sensational aspects of Massey's writings were the parallels he drew between the Christian god Jesus of Nazareth and the Egyptian god Horus. These comparisons are primarily contained in his book The Natural Genesis. Massey's writings on this subject have influenced various later authors such as Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Tom Harpur, and Acharya S.[5]

Some of the similarities that Massey claimed existed are that they both

Were born of virgins on December 25
Taught in a temple as a child at age 12
Were teachers who had 12 Disciples
Were baptized in a river
Gave a sermon on the mount
Healed the sick
Raised men from the dead (El-Asar-Us for Horus, Lazarus for Jesus)
Died by crucifixion
Were resurrected three days later.[6]


Criticism from scholars

W. Ward Gasque, a Ph.D from Harvard and Manchester University conducted an international poll of twenty Egyptologists - including Professor Kenneth Kitchen of the University of Liverpool and Ron Leprohan, Professor of Egyptology at the University of Toronto - in Canada, US, UK, Australia, Germany, and Austria to verify academic support for these claims. The scholars were unanimous in dismissing the claims

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey

[miller-time]

It's a man made literary work that is open to interpretation. I still don't see how society influencing what parts people choose to believe means the Bible isn't a core source of their beliefs.

If you can't even abstractly understand what I am saying then I probably can't help you. There is a difference between understanding and accepting. I honestly don't understand how you cannot understand my point (well I can hazard a guess and say you are either ignorant, delusional, or operating in a massive effort of cognitive dissonance).

[DonDadda59]

A bunch of BS made up by...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SnWfu8vlgV8/TgWIIACKBhI/AAAAAAAAAG8/kXpESQqFyNE/s1600/iron+knee.jpg


Nothing against Christians though, except when they tell me I'm going to hell:(

You're going to a special layer of hell where Jurassic Park plays on a loop for all eternity :mad:

[Droid101]

I'm always surprised by the amount of people here who have read the bible. I've never known anyone who has. I tried opening it up once, shit was unreadable.

Nothing against Christians though, except when they tell me I'm going to hell:(
You're reading the wrong Bible, my friend.

http://images.bookcloseouts.com/covers/large/isbn978076/9780764538117-l.jpg

[LikeABosh]

Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you.
All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them.

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]:biggums:

[LikeABosh]

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.

Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.

When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.

When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21] God is good.... Praise be to him

[Derka]

Didnt have to scroll far.

The bible is a great book with many lessons that a lot of people could learn from and apply to their lives.

So are Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings. Just sayin...

[Kews1]

No that Zeitgeist BS again. :lol A bunch of BS made up by a 19th century poet named Gerald Massey. No respected historian in the world claim those "facts" about those deities.

Read it and learn http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one An article ((with all the references) made by a non christian debunking all that BS.

Even militant atheists like historian Richard Carrier and those guys from the Atheist Experience show think Zeitgeist is BS.

Example: Horus wasn't born of a virgin, on the 25th dec, a teacher at 12, he wasn't crucified, he did not ressurect, he wasn't know as the Light, God's sheperd. There were no star in the east, no 12 disciples. It's all made up by Gerald Massey (lamer in history).

From wikipedia:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/26993666.jpg

[Pacers4ever]

So are Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings. Just sayin...
lol like what and it has to be original.

[TheGreatBlaze]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebzCmt0GidQ/T4EquL8ScoI/AAAAAAAABOY/0mlrA8nLgz0/s1600/horus+THEN+jesus.png
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE

[Kews1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE

For each video saying its not true i could find you ones that say it is, but thats beside the point if its true or not dosnt affect my views on it or beliefs so im not concerned either way :banana:

[TheGreatBlaze]

For each video saying its not true i could find you ones that say it is, but thats beside the point if its true or not dosnt affect my views on it or beliefs so im not concerned either way :banana:
You made assertions full of lies and fabrications that have been exposed and refuted years ago. If you're going to make a claim, prove it. People who actually study this sort of stuff can see right through you.

[DCL]

the bible is for stupid people.

those people may be good-natured folks, but they're still stupid people.

[Mach_3]

Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.


Oh F***

[Chapallaz]

I think people should stop bothering others with what they believe in.

[miller-time]

No doubt that is the reason for some, but many are due to people just not wanting to give something up--hence they build a denomination that allows it

That may be true, but it doesn't take away from the fact that this "perfect" book is subject to all sorts of subjective interpretation.

A rudimentary maths textbook is more perfect because it can only be interpreted one way, all of the time, by anyone regardless of their cultural or religious or economic background. That is kind of how I would expect the creator of the laws of the universe to write a book. Except I am expected to believe that this is his best effort? A set of identical twins with all of the same inputs will even differ in opinion on some points. I'm sorry but splendor and excellence are not words I would use to describe this derivative (because it had already been done before by people - God isn't even original in his method of delivery; prophet + book = religion) approach.

[red1]

Reading the Bible should be fun. Find out people's favorite scriptures, books, verses... Discover the brilliancy behind select scripture, the message.. ask questions
We reading the same bible? Reading playboy is fun. Bible? Not so much

[miller-time]

...it also tells me that satan is one hell of a deceiver. (In other words..check your sources)

Check what sources? Are you attributing every religion that came before Judaism, and from all corners of the globe to Satan? Are you saying that no other religion that was formed by a (false) prophet and had subsequent teachings either oral or written was man-made but rather inspired by Satan?

You have to remember that Christian thought has been combating criticism since its inception and it now has plenty of in-built and quite ingenious defensive mechanisms.

One is attributing other religions as products of Satan - and by engaging or thinking about them he is leading you astray.

Two is the notion that the Bible is only inspired and not dictated by God - this allows for human errors to be accounted for, alleviating your dissonance towards the fact that "something ain't quite right."

[Budadiiii]

Religion is such a huge flaw in modern society.


Just glad I wasn't brainwashed into it. Well they tried, I was just smart enough to see the fallacies

[Kblaze8855]

quick question.

I read once that the sales of the Bible and the Koran are not counted in official sales because the vast majority of those printed are given away. so the numbers on them are more what gets produced than what is sold. kinda like a record company saying 5,000,000 albums were shipped when they don't have the numbers on what sold. but they advertise. 5,000,000 sales

a lot of books sell in the hundreds of millions when you count being given away as a sale. the teachings of Mao in China for example.

Also.....



people crazy about their religion pretty much created truly widespread disdain for people different than them. people have been murdered for thousands of years for not swearing allegiance to this God or that God.

God fearers should be able to take a little harmless joking on the Internet. if all you had to deal with was one jerk on the internet for every person murdered in the name of god because of what some idiot took an old book to mean....... that seems more than fair to me

[miller-time]

quick question.

I read once that the sales of the Bible and the Koran are not counted in official sales because the vast majority of those printed are given away. so the numbers on them are more what gets produced than what is sold. kinda like a record company saying 5,000,000 albums were shipped when they don't have the numbers on what sold. but they advertise. 5,000,000 sales

a lot of books sell in the hundreds of millions when you count being given away as a sale. the teachings of Mao in China for example.

Also.....



people crazy about their religion pretty much created truly widespread disdain for people different than them. people have been murdered for thousands of years for not swearing allegiance to this God or that God.

God fearers should be able to take a little harmless joking on the Internet. if all you had to deal with was one jerk on the internet for every person murdered in the name of god because of what some idiot took an old book to mean....... that seems more than fair to me

What exactly is the question?

[Kblaze8855]

part about the Bible sales often being more about what is produced than actually sold....

i imagine it would be hard to get concrete sales numbers on a book that its followers believe you shouldn't charge anybody for. so where do sales numbers really come from? not like only 1 place produces Bibles. and so many are given away it would be hard to keep up with the numbers.

[miller-time]

part about the Bible sales often being more about what is produced than actually sold....

i imagine it would be hard to get concrete sales numbers on a book that its followers believe you shouldn't charge anybody for. so where do sales numbers really come from? not like only 1 place produces Bibles. and so many are given away it would be hard to keep up with the numbers.

Even though they are given away someone has to buy them from the publisher. So I guess they are still "sold." But it is still misleading.

I don't know who is constantly needing bibles though, my entire family is atheist and we have like 3 or 4 of them in our house. Surely if you are a believer you'd have one handy somewhere. We have one that my Grandma was given in school, so it'd be about 70-75 years old, they are pretty sturdy books.

[Kblaze8855]

many people produce the Bible for free so it's not even sold from the publisher. but yes just about everyone has Bibles. I have more than one and also have a Koran somewhere. well not the Koran its one of those books claiming to explain what it means in English. I may even have a book of Mormon somewhere though I'm not sure I kept it after I moved.

[miller-time]

I'm saying check the sources that are telling you these things, that are claiming plagiarism, etc.. The whole Zeitgeist deal for example. I'll get to the rest of what you posted when I get off, you too kblaze. Good to see you posting in here

I didn't say the Bible was plagiarized. I said God used exactly the same method to deliver his word as every man-made religion that preceded Judaism and Christianity. Which raises a red flag. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

[MMM]

I believe in a creator but not in one that needs a blood sacrifice to forgive sin, that seems unGodly to me and that is just one example. There are many examples of attributes that are attributed to GOD that I have trouble believing.

[miller-time]

I believe in a creator but not in one that needs a blood sacrifice to forgive sin, that seems unGodly to me and that is just one example. There are many examples of attributes that are attributed to GOD that I have trouble believing.

Agreed. If he exists I feel bad for him. Imagine if people painted a picture like that about you?

I can not possibly reconcile the idea that the same God that created quantum physics and biological organisms would also initiate such a poorly formed rule book. It is such a logical disconnect that it actually pains me to think about.

[miller-time]

The Bible being inspired by God, and not dictated is in the Bible itself (see 2 Timothy 3:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3%3A16&version=KJV), other places as well I'm sure. May look them up and get back to this)

Christianity existed before the New Testament.


However, most modern critical scholars argue that 2 Timothy was not written by Paul but by an anonymous follower, after Paul's death in the First Century. Most scholars now affirm this view.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Epistle_to_Timothy

It'd almost be required for the author to put that line in.

[DonDadda59]

I'm saying check the sources that are telling you these things, that are claiming plagiarism, etc..

Yes, check the sources for everything else except what you believe in. Not at all a flawed system.

[miller-time]

I can say the same thing in my favor

You shouldn't need defensive mechanisms. The arguments should stand on their own merits.

What makes science work is that theories either hold water or they don't, and if they don't you discard them, you don't hold on to them by creating ad-hoc hypotheses.

[Edwin]

This thread didn't turn into the mess I expected and is a fun read due to some well educated posters who seem pretty knowledgeable putting aside the uneducated ones.

Props to BuGZBuNNy, miller-time and all the other educated people who've made this thread an enjoyable debate to read.

[miller-time]

Zeitgeist was clearly bs. This chart...

..clearly bs :oldlol:

I wasn't talking about any direct relationship to the stories within the bible. But the medium as a whole. Like I said: Prophet + Written/Oral Stories = Religion.

Why would he do what people have already been doing for thousands of years?

Actually a similar argument was made in Bill Maher's "Religulous " where he compared Jesus to a bunch of other religious figures and a lot of the comparisons were BS or very vague and shaky at best.

[miller-time]

This thread didn't turn into the mess I expected and is a fun read due to some well educated posters who seem pretty knowledgeable putting aside the uneducated ones.

Props to BuGZBuNNy, miller-time and all the other educated people who've made this thread an enjoyable debate to read.

Aww man, now I feel pressure to make better arguments lol.

[miller-time]

Soooo..you're saying that that specific verse is likely a defensive mechanism to critics claiming error? That before this verse people believed the Bible was other than inspired by God?

I'm not sure, I am only speculating. But it can certainly be used for that reason there-after.

We could raise the same point with any verse, in any religious text and it'd be difficult to separate intention and actuality. Generally I try not to argue too much inside of the Bible because it is an internally consistent narrative. Whether passages were put in there with an external motive in mind we can't really know.

[DonDadda59]

Zeitgeist was clearly bs. This chart...

..clearly bs :oldlol:

I don't remember mentioning zeitgeist. You and I have been down this road before, you know I have the goods to prove my point :D

So I'll just leave it at this- the connections to Christianity between religions and philosophies that predate it are undeniable. As Miller Time alluded to before, nothing claimed in Christianity is particularly new or unique and has its roots in older traditions. It is just the continuation of a game of telephone that was started as far back (at the latest) as 1000 BC in Persia.

Allah=God=Yahweh=Ahura Mazda

The bible is no more 'excellent' or full of 'splendor' than the Q'uran, the Torah, the Avesta, etc. You just choose to believe that. Which is your prerogative. But the point still stands.

[DonDadda59]

Give me these religions and sources.

A good place to start would be Zoroastrianism. Plenty of material online about the belief system and you can also read the source material in the Avesta, gothas, etc.

Zarathustra laid the foundation for the dominant world religions (the so called Abrahamic religions). He claimed it all began when he was inspired by the word of the one true God, which was remarkable considering the religious beliefs of his time dictated a multitude of deities.

[miller-time]

So I'll just leave it at this- the connections to Christianity between religions and philosophies that predate it are undeniable. As Miller Time alluded to before, nothing claimed in Christianity is particularly new or unique and has its roots in older traditions. It is just the continuation of a game of telephone that was started as far back (at the latest) as 1000 BC in Persia.

This is an interesting video on the history of the Bible and God, I have posted it on here before.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfFx9JTQl8

[miller-time]

Surely if he wanted it to be flawless he'd of written it himself

Why would he want to inspire an imperfect book? The image I have of God is that he is constantly dissatisfied with imperfection. It is essentially the main theme of the book. Yet the book is the most imperfect product produced by God so far.

Although the tree of knowledge and flooding the entire world weren't his best ideas either...

[DonDadda59]

:oldlol: You've been fighting the bad fight too long man. The mere fact that some things submitted by your sources are clearly bs says something.

Negro please. Do I have to post your thread where you threw in the towel during our exchange? :oldlol:

You just choose to believe whatever makes you feel good vs what is actually true. Like I said before, that's your prerogative. But don't try to pass off plagiarized mythology as undeniable truth and then dismiss anything that aims to illuminate that as 'clearly bs'.


As a Christian im of the belief that every alleged error, contradiction, accusation of plagiarism..has more than a plausible explanation given a thorough understanding. Keep in mind that I'm not against the idea that God didn't care for a book that was flawless or free of error and I think post two supports that. Surely if he wanted it to be flawless he'd of written it himself
The legacy, the impact (both on individuals and the world as a whole) of the Bible compared to these books is on another level. That cannot be disputed. If thats what I'm calling splendor and excellence, you must agree. I hate to submit a reply so fast b/c I could never sum its greatness up so quickly. It covers so much ground, really every aspect of life..more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen. I must agree

You could've stopped right there. That's all it comes down to. You have no interest in truth, you are more than happy to continue on in conditioned belief. Everything you say, hundreds of millions say the same of the Q'uran, or Star Wars or Harry Potter. You like the book, great. But nothing about it's perceived (your perception) 'splendor' or 'excellence' is undeniable or even unique.

[DonDadda59]

This is an interesting video on the history of the Bible and God, I have posted it on here before.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfFx9JTQl8

I'm sure I've seen it before, will check it out again later. The course of religious belief in Judea shifted dramatically after the Hebrews came into contact with the Zoroastrians during the Babylonian captivity and began co-opting their ideas. You still see the fruit of those seeds being planted today, case in point the OP believing things Zarathustra spoke about many centuries before Paul and Constantine.

[miller-time]

Gods part in the Bible is the message, and the message is perfect. I've remained that constant throughout the thread

Well it seems like a poor way to treat a perfect message. It'd be like taking a photo of Scarlett Johansson with a 1st generation camera phone.

[DonDadda59]

Dawg...One of your sources claimed that Perseus was born of a virgin and you backed that..only to later say that he was born of a virgin in that, his mother was a virgin before she became pregnant with him, smh. This claim holds absolutely no weight. If this is what you call being born of a virgin than I very well may have been born of a virgin

Pretty sure you also quoted sources that claimed biblical cannons were edited at the councils when I'm certain most sources will say otherwise or that it could never be certain.

Stop it :lol

I provided you sources that showed that the whole demigod being born of a virgin mortal and God was just a recycled Pagan convention, which it clearly is. You spent like a page trying to convince me that there might be a difference between Jesus being born of the God Yahweh and the mortal Mary and Perseus being born of the God Zeus and the mortal Semele because the latter may have involved God-mortal sex while the former was a result of magic. It didn't even matter to you that one of the Church's early fathers, one of its most famous martyrs said in no uncertain terms that the stories surrounding Jesus' life were the same as the life stories of the 'sons of Jupiter' (aka Zeus). C'mon son.

Like I said, I can bump the thread again if you want to retread that road. Just say when.


I ended the thread, no denying that. But it wasn't because you were dogging me or something. You had no interest in admitting to your mistake of a claim, thats not why I ended it either though. I can also admit that you've been fighting in this game longer than I have..clearly you've spent more time trying to disprove the Bible than I've spent trying to prove it. I've said that before. Hell, clearly you care more to disprove the Bible than I care to prove it

You can't admit the impact/greatness of the Bible?

I can admit the impact of the bible same as I can admit the impact of the movie Avatar. You'd have to tell me what your definition of greatness is.

[miller-time]

Eh, its not like the message isn't apparent everywhere its found

What you mean?

[miller-time]

The jury seems to be out on Justin Martyr. I've seen all kinds of things questioning him. That he was controversial...questioning if he was a saint, apostate, heretic. (http://www.cogwriter.com/justin.htm) I won't form an opinion on him before I at least feel I know enough about him to

Wondering what you thought about the videos I posted on the last page?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

Do you find inaccuracies in what he is describing?

[DCL]

i see nothing wrong with making fun of someone's religion.

imaging a dude who sees his toilet bowl as his god and he worships that toilet bowl. every morning, he makes a prayer to that toilet bowl, and all his faith belongs to the toilet bowl. granted, he may be a nice person, but he's still worshipping a f--king toilet bowl.

i don't really see a difference between christians and that guy worshipping his toilet bowl.

both believe in the same kind of faith. it doesn't necessarily make them bad people, but they're both funny. if you must respect christians, then you must also respect the guy worshipping his toilet bowl.

[miller-time]

i see nothing wrong with making fun of someone's religion.

imaging a dude who sees his toilet bowl as his god and he worships that toilet bowl. every morning, he makes a prayer to that toilet bowl, and all his faith belongs to the toilet bowl. granted, he may be a nice person, but he's still worshipping a f--king toilet bowl.

i don't really see a difference between christians and that guy worshipping his toilet bowl.

both believe in the same kind of faith. it doesn't necessarily make them bad people, but they're both funny. if you must respect christians, then you must also respect the guy worshipping his toilet bowl.

Hitchens makes a good point on the mockery of religion. http://youtu.be/8t4VhQX5Ckk?t=1m21s

Although the distinction should be made about the mockery of a belief system and mockery of the individual. Those are two different exercises.

"One of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority."

[maybeshewill13]

I thought most people realized wizards and fantasies weren't real by time they were in their teens? :confusedshrug:

[miller-time]

I haven't watched them, I will now..and this one

If I am to believe that the Bible is truth, nothing like this will ever surprise me as it hints it time and again. Continuing to watch

So what is your opinion?

[Himan12]

You know what I never understood about the major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam). God decided to reveal his word to some group of special people in those days but how come he cant reveal to us? What makes them worthy?

We are asked to believe in some books that we have 0 clues regarding their origins.