Lebron was better than Bird ever was

[StateOfMind12]

as individual players, prol not there in terms of career yet, but Lebron at his peak was better than Bird was at his peak.

[kenny817]

The Larry Legend disrespect on here is astounding

[IGotACoolStory]

Larry Bird is white. Country hick type of white, too.

He must be overrated at basketball.

[Mach_3]

as individual players, prol not there in terms of career yet, but Bird at his peak was better than Lebron was at his peak.

I agree :applause:

[KG215]

This probably isn't as outlandish as some posters are going to make it out to be. It's probably actually a legitimate argument honestly, I just haven't seen enough of peak/prime Bird to really know.

[imdaman99]

probably, but bird was at least twice the man in the clutch than lebron ever been and will be.

[StateOfMind12]

probably, but bird was at least twice the man in the clutch than lebron ever been and will be.
Pretty funny you say that when some of Bird's playoff games/series were weak and he underperformed.

[Bigsmoke]

i dont konw about all that

LeBron might end up having a better career :confusedshrug:

[DonDadda59]

I have no idea why 'basketball fans' nowadays feel the need to tear down past legends to prop up their favorite players. If your guy is really that good, his game/accomplishments should speak for themselves. Lebron is doing just fine creating his own legacy, it has nothing to do with what Larry Legend accomplished during his run.

[Haymaker]

In terms of athleticism, sure. Bball IQ and skills? Not in your dreams. Larry Bird had mastered the fundamentals of the game before joining the league.

[DonDadda59]

In terms of athleticism, sure. Bball IQ and skills? Not in your dreams. Larry Bird had mastered the fundamentals of the game before joining the league.

Lebron's skills and bball IQ are all time elite. He's not as refined as Bird was in terms of shooting ability and his post game is lacking (but improving), but like you pointed out he makes up for said deficiencies with his athleticism, and he puts in the work to improve. Both guys are ATGs in terms of non PG passing ability and playmaking/court vision. Lebron has the edge on D, though Bird is very underrated as a defender.

In summation- they are/were great :lol

[CAstill]

as individual players, prol not there in terms of career yet, but Lebron at his peak was better than Bird was at his peak.


No he's not lol. You obviously haven't watched much of Bird.
Lebron is a better slasher and a slightly better at rim finisher.
Bird has him in almost every other aspect.
I've never been scared of Lebron just going off, taking over
and dominating the way Bird did. Lebron has but no where near
the capacity that Bird did.

[Richie2k6]

in b4 page 20

[konex]

Paul Pierce is better than Bird ever was as an individual player. How is this news?

[Pushxx]

Someone say this to Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem, or any other legend that played against Bird and see what they say.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://x28.xanga.com/760c236402432157718880/w118230939.gif

[bdreason]

Gimme Bird.

[Fudge]

Dwight > Yao

[pauk]

It is a very legitimate argument, i have seen alot of both...

Lebron is very clearly a better:

Ballhandler & slasher
Athlete
Open court player
Somewhat of a better facilitator/playmaker (not to be confused with passing skills/vision)
Defender
More versatile player on both ends (especially defensively)

Bird was very clearly a better:

Shooter
Somewhat of a better rebounder

Anything else they were pretty much the same... like scoring & passing skills/court vision... scoring wise they were both equally good but did it in somewhat different ways, Lebron was more productive as a scorer but Larry had a better scoring arsenal (could shoot/postup better)....... pure passing skills/court vision wise (ignoring assists a game) its almost impossible to tell, both are the best passing non-PGs i ever seen at least (both in terms of assists a game or passing skills/vision)...

Individually overall you could say Lebron is somewhat better, why not...? Larry Bird i think was more accurately closer to something like Kevin Durant... minus the athleticism but with more passing...

[stevieming]

In terms of athleticism, sure. Bball IQ and skills? Not in your dreams. Larry Bird had mastered the fundamentals of the game before joining the league.

Exactly, I totally agree with you....The media really does hype up Lebron's IQ and skills....

Case in point, towards the end of the game against the Thunder, lebron has the ball at the side of the court ready for 1 on 1.....Perkins goes over and Bosh is wide open, and Lebron passes him the ball....OK it was a good play, dude is wide open, and Lebron passes it. The commentators are practically slobbering all over LBJ for that play! Are you serious....:facepalm

I think the only other superstar that wouldn't have passed the ball would have been Kobe, because he has a mental problem with always wanting to take the final shot instead of letting someone else take it.

Dudes, lebron has limited skill in shooting....lebron has only in the last two years mastered understanding tempo and when to be the man....

His insane athleticism masks his deficiencies quite a lot in my opinion - in particular when he beats guys off the dribble, it's always either:

1. hesitation and explode.
2. Pure strength and speed.

He doesn't juke, he doesn't shimmy...granted he's bloomin effective at options 1 and 2 moves, but when he declines ala wade athletically he's going to suffer. (and Wade has great handles and eurostep moves, etc)

[tpols]

It is a very legitimate argument, i have seen alot of both...

Lebron is very clearly a better:

Ballhandler & slasher
Athlete
Open court player
Somewhat of a better facilitator/playmaker (not to be confused with passing skills/vision)
Defender
More versatile player on both ends (especially defensively)

Bird was very clearly a better:

Shooter
Somewhat of a better rebounder

Anything else they were pretty much the same... like scoring & passing skills/court vision... scoring wise they were both equally good but did it in somewhat different ways, Lebron was more productive as a scorer but Larry had a better scoring arsenal (could shoot/postup better)....... pure passing skills/court vision wise (ignoring assists a game) its almost impossible to tell, both are the best passing non-PGs i ever seen at least (both in terms of assists a game or passing skills/vision)...

Individually overall you could say Lebron is somewhat better, why not...? Larry Bird i think was more accurately closer to something like Kevin Durant... minus the athleticism but with more passing...
Why do you list a bunch of bullshit pros for lebron and leave out the obvious pros for Bird?

Athlete? Does that really need to be mentioned when the other attributes grossly imply it?

Birds definitely a better facilitator then drive and dish LeBron is. And he's a better half court player, and he's got a better off hand, and he's more clutch, and he's a better leader/much tougher.. On a different mental plane. In addition to the like one pro you gave him over Bron.

[pauk]

@Stevieming

As far as passing when the game is on the line or unselfishness goes Bird had a very similar mindset to Lebron (when to score, when to pass), they always wanted to make the correct play no matter what the clock said...

[SHAQisGOAT]

:facepalm Just no, not to say LeBron isn't close but gimme Bird all the way.



It is a very legitimate argument, i have seen alot of both...

Lebron is very clearly a better:

Ballhandler & slasher
Athlete
Open court player
Somewhat of a better facilitator/playmaker (not to be confused with passing skills/vision)
Defender
More versatile player on both ends (especially defensively)

Bird was very clearly a better:

Shooter
Somewhat of a better rebounder

Anything else they were pretty much the same... like scoring & passing skills/court vision... scoring wise they were both equally good but did it in somewhat different ways, Lebron was more productive as a scorer but Larry had a better scoring arsenal (could shoot/postup better)....... pure passing skills/court vision wise (ignoring assists a game) its almost impossible to tell, both are the best passing non-PGs i ever seen at least (both in terms of assists a game or passing skills/vision)...

Individually overall you could say Lebron is somewhat better, why not...? Larry Bird i think was more accurately closer to something like Kevin Durant... minus the athleticism but with more passing...


BS on the first bolded, lmao at the 2nd

Bird is a better:

shooter
rebounder
passer
post-player
team defender

Not to mention intagibles, better in the clutch, better under pressure, better leader, more basketball IQ, better at improving teams/teammates, tougher, hustled more, more determination...

With all of that said if I had prime/peak LeBron and prime/peak Bird avalaible in a draft I would pick Bird

[Papaya Petee]

Someone say this to Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem, or any other legend that played against Bird and see what they say.

Umm okay? Someone say this to Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard or any other legend that played against LeBron and see what they say.

[pauk]

Why do you list a bunch of bullshit pros for lebron and leave out the obvious pros for Bird?

Athlete? Does that really need to be mentioned when the other attributes grossly imply it?

Birds definitely a better facilitator then drive and dish LeBron is. And he's a better half court player, and he's got a better off hand, and he's more clutch, and he's a better leader/much tougher.. On a different mental plane. In addition to the like one pro you gave him over Bron.

Those things i mentioned is something you can not really debate.... anything else, you can...

[stevieming]

@Stevieming

As far as passing when the game is on the line or unselfishness goes Bird had a very similar mindset to Lebron (when to score, when to pass), they always wanted to make the correct play no matter what the clock said...

I acknowledge your point.

I was just annoyed at the two commentators...like stop kissing his ass man.....

[KyrieTheFuture]

Umm okay? Someone say this to Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard or any other legend that played against LeBron and see what they say.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Are you seriously comparing Wade Melo and Howard to any of those previously mentioned players? Legends? Is you serious?

[Asukal]

Give Bird Lebron's athleticism and there would be no discussion on who is the better player. :facepalm

[Replay32]

I have no idea why 'basketball fans' nowadays feel the need to tear down past legends to prop up their favorite players. If your guy is really that good, his game/accomplishments should speak for themselves. Lebron is doing just fine creating his own legacy, it has nothing to do with what Larry Legend accomplished during his run.

Excellent Post.

[Derka]

Comparisons such as this are ridiculous.

[Pacers4ever]

Why do you list a bunch of bullshit pros for lebron and leave out the obvious pros for Bird?

Athlete? Does that really need to be mentioned when the other attributes grossly imply it?

Birds definitely a better facilitator then drive and dish LeBron is. And he's a better half court player, and he's got a better off hand, and he's more clutch, and he's a better leader/much tougher.. On a different mental plane. In addition to the like one pro you gave him over Bron.
lol hell no and lebron doesn't have an off or main hand.

[Pacers4ever]

Give Bird Lebron's athleticism and there would be no discussion on who is the better player. :facepalm
and give lebron birds jump shot he's the better player, since you want to use that most retarded argument ever.

[lilgodfather1]

Someone say this to Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem, or any other legend that played against Bird and see what they say.
They say whichever one strokes their ego more. When the answer is a toss up, you go with the one that makes you feel better about yourself.

There really isn't much of an argument for Bird though. LeBron's already almost toppled all of his career stats in 10 years.

[Jolokia]

Lebron > Bird as first option
Bird > Lebron as second option

Bird > Lebron all time
But Lebron > Bird when Lebron retires.

[DuMa]

he should be better than Larry in a few years and after a couple more championships. for sure hes gonna tap Larry Legend for more years played. Larry had his career cut short. same as Magic. they both could have accomplished the GOAT title if they had more runs while being healthy or able bodied to play.

[Shepseskaf]

Paul Pierce is better than Bird ever was as an individual player. How is this news?
:facepalm :facepalm

Bird is correctly ranked on most all-time lists at around the 5 - 7 range. LeBron isn't close to that yet.

Bird is arguably the best passing forward ever, had one of the highest bb IQs, and was best known for being clutch.

You can't put LeBron ahead of Bird right now. Its absurd.

[Whoah10115]

It is outlandish...let it sound arrogant. Lebron is absolutely not as good as Larry Bird.


Not at all...not an argument. Bird was a better rebounder, a better scorer (a better scorer), a better passer, better vision (better vision), more inventive and resourceful and had greater impact. He shot the ball better, he played a better team game, a better floor game. James has the better handles and can create better for others off the dribble and in transition. He is also the better defender, tho I don't know where this idea that Bird can't defend actually came from. Bird was a good man defender and a terrific team defender, who made big plays.

[Remix]

future negs!!

[lilgodfather1]

It is outlandish...let it sound arrogant. Lebron is absolutely not as good as Larry Bird.


Not at all...not an argument. Bird was a better rebounder, a better scorer (a better scorer), a better passer, better vision (better vision), more inventive and resourceful and had greater impact. He shot the ball better, he played a better team game, a better floor game. James has the better handles and can create better for others off the dribble and in transition. He is also the better defender, tho I don't know where this idea that Bird can't defend actually came from. Bird was a good man defender and a terrific team defender, who made big plays.
LeBron - 6.9 apg, Bird 6.3 apg
Career high: LeBron - 8.6, Bird - 7.6

LeBron's a better passer.

LeBron - 27.6ppg, Bird - 24.3
Career high: LeBron - 31.4, Bird - 29.9

Don't see where the myth that Bird was a better passer, and scorer came from.

One more thing

LeBron - 4,923 assists in 714 games, Bird - 5,695 in 897 games
LeBron - 19,683 points in 714 games, Bird - 21,791 in 897 games

LeBron will pass Bird next year most likely in points scored in roughly 70 less games played, and will pass him in assists in roughly 30 less games played.

Don't know where the evidence is to support your myths, but it's not your fault it's what you've been told to believe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Hambledon_Hill_Sheep.jpg

[Pacers4ever]

It is outlandish...let it sound arrogant. Lebron is absolutely not as good as Larry Bird.


Not at all...not an argument. Bird was a better rebounder, a better scorer (a better scorer), a better passer, better vision (better vision), more inventive and resourceful and had greater impact. He shot the ball better, he played a better team game, a better floor game. James has the better handles and can create better for others off the dribble and in transition. He is also the better defender, tho I don't know where this idea that Bird can't defend actually came from. Bird was a good man defender and a terrific team defender, who made big plays.
debatable. Seriously people are living on nostalgia now a days. LeBron was the more complete players easily

[DatAsh]

It is a very legitimate argument, i have seen alot of both...

Lebron is very clearly a better:

Ballhandler & slasher
Athlete
Open court player
Somewhat of a better facilitator/playmaker (not to be confused with passing skills/vision)
Defender
More versatile player on both ends (especially defensively)

Bird was very clearly a better:

Shooter
Somewhat of a better rebounder

Anything else they were pretty much the same... like scoring & passing skills/court vision... scoring wise they were both equally good but did it in somewhat different ways, Lebron was more productive as a scorer but Larry had a better scoring arsenal (could shoot/postup better)....... pure passing skills/court vision wise (ignoring assists a game) its almost impossible to tell, both are the best passing non-PGs i ever seen at least (both in terms of assists a game or passing skills/vision)...

Individually overall you could say Lebron is somewhat better, why not...? Larry Bird i think was more accurately closer to something like Kevin Durant... minus the athleticism but with more passing...

You go into to detail pointing out everything that Lebron is better at, yet you neglect to do the same for Bird.

Lebron was a better
on ball scorer
defender
playmaker

Bird was a better
off ball scorer
rebounder
passer

[Shepseskaf]

LeBron - 6.9 apg, Bird 6.3 apg
Career high: LeBron - 8.6, Bird - 7.6

LeBron's a better passer.

LeBron - 27.6ppg, Bird - 24.3
Career high: LeBron - 31.4, Bird - 29.9

Don't see where the myth that Bird was a better passer, and scorer came from.

One more thing

LeBron - 4,923 assists in 714 games, Bird - 5,695 in 897 games
LeBron - 19,683 points in 714 games, Bird - 21,791 in 897 games

LeBron will pass Bird next year most likely in points scored in roughly 70 less games played, and will pass him in assists in roughly 30 less games played.

Don't know where the evidence is to support your myths, but it's not your fault it's what you've been told to believe.
A collection of stats from someone who likely never saw Bird play. How surprising.

[Whoah10115]

debatable. Seriously people are living on nostalgia now a days. LeBron was the more complete players easily



No.

[raprap]

In his prime? maybe.

[Whoah10115]

So Lebron isn't in his prime?


I have a hard time understanding how anyone could take Cleveland Lebron over the Miami version...he's clearly a much better player now.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron Easily More Talented and athletic but what made Bird Great was his Clutchness, Knowledge of the game all all around play. Lebron all around does everything a little better except Shoot than Bird. When its Said and Done he will be ranked ahead of Larry and I am pretty sure Bird would agree with that himself if U asked him.

[Asukal]

and give lebron birds jump shot he's the better player, since you want to use that most retarded argument ever.

Athleticism cannot be learned, jump shots can be mastered. What's stopping Lebron? :confusedshrug:

[DatAsh]

So Lebron isn't in his prime?


I have a hard time understanding how anyone could take Cleveland Lebron over the Miami version...he's clearly a much better player now.

He had better stats in Cleveland, that's why. People can't seem to understand that stats heavily depend on role.

[Whoah10115]

He had better stats in Cleveland, that's why. People can't seem to understand that stats heavily depend on role.



Well, those people are special...there's a reason that team had the best record in the league two years in a row but never had a shot at a title...I always point to his performance against the Magic...you would think he had one of the great playoff series ever...if that was the case, his team would have won.

[unbreakable]

larry bird carried his team to multiple chips lets see lebron do that

[Pacers4ever]

Athleticism cannot be learned, jump shots can be mastered. What's stopping Lebron? :confusedshrug:
You can't train for athleticism :lol ? I've learned to increase my vertical pretty well too(and you come off like lebron didn't train for his athleticism and he just with it or got it for free). Also you think bird would be using the same jump shot / stroke if he was lebron size. It's not that easy shooting at his mass, but he clearly improved and one of the greatest to ever finish in the paint.

[Segatti]

LeBron - 6.9 apg, Bird 6.3 apg
Career high: LeBron - 8.6, Bird - 7.6

LeBron's a better passer.

I love how people just throw stats with no context whatsoever and make his conclusions on it.

[Jolokia]

You can't train for athleticism :lol ? I've learned to increase my vertical pretty well too(and you come off like lebron didn't train for his athleticism and he just with it or got it for free). Also you think bird would be using the same jump shot / stroke if he was lebron size. It's not that easy shooting at his mass, but he clearly improved and one of the greatest to ever finish in the paint.
As you can see, NBA players are pretty much maxed out with their athleticism after their 3rd or 4th season. Even if you do gain vertical, it is negligible at probably an inch or 2 inches at the very best. Strength can be added on but then you lose agility/quickness with your lateral movements. Skill takes years and years of practice but the difference over a 10 year span will be more noticeable than someone taking 10 years to master their athleticism attributes.

Lebron is a unique specimen who has basically the right combination of all the above. People have got to understand that. The only players I can put in the same league as him right now are Adrian Peterson and Calvin Johnson (at the top of my head)...no hate on the linemen...Maybe D-Wade, D-Rose, Blake Griffin, & Westbrook too.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Lebron all around does everything a little better except Shoot than Bird.

Bird was also a better rebounder (clearly), passer, off-ball player, and post player.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird was also a better rebounder (clearly), passer, off-ball player, and post player.

Forgot about his off-ball game, Bird was amazing at it, impactful.

[StateOfMind12]

Bird was also a better rebounder (clearly), passer, off-ball player, and post player.
Better rebounder? Not sure, Lebron is more athletic and his technique has been great since coming to Miami.

Off-ball player? Yes
Post-player? Yes

It doesn't really matter though if it doesn't really make you any more effective or help your team out to win.

[SHAQisGOAT]

LeBron - 6.9 apg, Bird 6.3 apg
Career high: LeBron - 8.6, Bird - 7.6

LeBron's a better passer.

LeBron - 27.6ppg, Bird - 24.3
Career high: LeBron - 31.4, Bird - 29.9



Bird handled the ball a whole lot less than LeBron, and he never had sooo many 3pt shooters (I can think of Ainge right now) around as James throughout his career.

Plus he took less shots than LeBron also.

[Whoah10115]

Better rebounder? Not sure, Lebron is more athletic and his technique has been great since coming to Miami.

Off-ball player? Yes
Post-player? Yes

It doesn't really matter though if it doesn't really make you any more effective or help your team out to win.



Nothing to argue. Bird is the better rebounder.

[CavaliersFTW]

Better rebounder? Not sure, Lebron is more athletic and his technique has been great since coming to Miami.

Off-ball player? Yes
Post-player? Yes

It doesn't really matter though if it doesn't really make you any more effective or help your team out to win.
:oldlol: what's not to be sure about? Check their $TATS breh - and Bird was getting more boards at a higher % his entire career with two HOF bigmen on the floor with him. Lebron has been surrounded by below average rebounding big men almost his entire career and still hasn't rebounded the ball like Bird did.

[StateOfMind12]

:oldlol: what is their not to be sure about? Check their $TATS breh
They played at a faster pace and Bird played closer to the basket than Bron did because Bird would occasionally guard PFs because the SF was a good scorer and Mchale was always on the best scorer.

I'll take Lebron, better athleticism.

[StateOfMind12]

Nothing to argue. Bird is the better rebounder.
:oldlol:

well since this idiot just said Bird is a better rebounder then Lebron is clearly a better rebounder since he is wrong about everything.

[Whoah10115]

They played at a faster pace and Bird played closer to the basket than Bron did because Bird would occasionally guard PFs because the SF was a good scorer and Mchale was always on the best scorer.

I'll take Lebron, better athleticism.



:oldlol:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Better rebounder? Not sure, Lebron is more athletic and his technique has been great since coming to Miami.

Off-ball player? Yes
Post-player? Yes

It doesn't really matter though if it doesn't really make you any more effective or help your team out to win.

Like rebounding is all about athleticism lol, not even close, Larry was grabbing 9.6 rpg in his last season in less than 37 min, at 35, under the most debilitating conditions, playing alongside Parish, Kleine or McHale (if you wanna bring up pace, his team's pace was less than 96 that season)


Again Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, passer, post-player off-ball player, team defender, post defender, and brought way better intagibles...
That's more than enough for me.

[BrickingStar]

Like rebounding is all about athleticism lol, not even close, Larry was grabbing 9.6 rpg in his last season in less than 37 min, at 35, under the most debilitating conditions, playing alongside Parish, Kleine or McHale (if you wanna bring up pace, his team's pace was less than 96 that season)


Again Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, passer, post-player off-ball player, team defender, post defender, and brought way better intagibles...
That's more than enough for me.
disagree on team defender and lebron not as flashy set up his team mates better then bird.

[StateOfMind12]

Like rebounding is all about athleticism lol, not even close, Larry was grabbing 9.6 rpg in his last season in less than 37 min, at 35, under the most debilitating conditions, playing alongside Parish, Kleine or McHale (if you wanna bring up pace, his team's pace was less than 96 that season)


Again Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, passer, post-player off-ball player, team defender, post defender, and brought way better intagibles...
That's more than enough for me.
Bird wasn't better than Lebron at any type of defense, lol at that.

Lebron is better in the post-season, better all-around player, and just a better overall player. You can give me the specifies of Bird being superior in certain aspects, too bad it doesn't make him a more impactful or valuable player as Lebron was.

[Whoah10115]

Bird wasn't better than Lebron at any type of defense, lol at that.

Lebron is better in the post-season, better all-around player, and just a better overall player. You can give me the specifies of Bird being superior in certain aspects, too bad it doesn't make him a more impactful or valuable player as Lebron was.



:oldlol:

[Raider007]

Yesterday, someone threaded something like "LeBron has better hands than Magic"...

Today, we have better peak that Bird...


No and No

The people that post these things obviously never saw Bird or Magic play except on short videos.

LeBron is a great player, it will take many years of great play for him to even come close to Bird and Magic.. sorry kids

[CavaliersFTW]

...
http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/How+God+made+OP+_3962f76bdbd509ba9b0b8cdb8f515d53. jpg

[OldSchoolBBall]

Better rebounder? Not sure, Lebron is more athletic and his technique has been great since coming to Miami.

This is not even up for debate. Bird was the better rebounder. Dude outrebounded prime Moses Malone in a playoff series, for crying out loud.


Off-ball player? Yes
Post-player? Yes

It doesn't really matter though if it doesn't really make you any more effective or help your team out to win.

But it does help you team win by making you more versatile and able to slide into multiple roles and attack in different ways.

[SHAQisGOAT]

They played at a faster pace and Bird played closer to the basket than Bron did because Bird would occasionally guard PFs because the SF was a good scorer and Mchale was always on the best scorer.

I'll take Lebron, better athleticism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA - Guess that kills your whole pace argument pretty much.

Bird played alongside dudes like Parish or McHale... Forget much?


Really wanted to see Bird playing alongside weaker rebounders and being surround by as many 3pt shooters as LeBron...
Plus having the ball as much as LBJ and caring for his stats as much (he told the coach he wanted to stay in the bench in the 4th because his team had the win secured, while being 1 steal shy away from a quadruple double). He could've had way better stats if he wanted to (not to say he didn't have amazing numbers), but he wouldn't be the winner he was.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yesterday, someone threaded something like "LeBraon has better hands than Magic"...

Today, we have better peak that Bird...


No and No

The people that post these things obviously never saw Bird or Magic play except on short videos.

LeBron is a great player, it will take many years of great play for him to even come close to Bird and Magic.. sorry kids
Then it is confirmed ...Chris Broussard has multiple accounts here on ISH

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird wasn't better than Lebron at any type of defense, lol at that.

Lebron is better in the post-season, better all-around player, and just a better overall player. You can give me the specifies of Bird being superior in certain aspects, too bad it doesn't make him a more impactful or valuable player as Lebron was.

OK I'm done with you because you clearly know what you're talking about :facepalm :oldlol:

[StateOfMind12]

This is not even up for debate. Bird was the better rebounder. Dude outrebounded prime Moses Malone in a playoff series, for crying out loud.
Maybe Lebron could too if you put him back there. He averaged about 10 rpg in the playoffs last season playing PF. He can rebound.




But it does help you team win by making you more versatile and able to slide into multiple roles and attack in different ways.
Sure, but considering how Lebron was more dominant in the playoffs and simply better overall makes it moot.

Adaptability can be overrated. We're talking two legends here, top 10 players of all-time.

Teams/Franchises would build around them no matter what, they'll never be the bitch or anyone else but I doubt Lebron would have much of a problem fitting into certain teams. He may not fit as well as Bird, but he would still fit in.

[SHAQisGOAT]

disagree on team defender and lebron not as flashy set up his team mates better then bird.

Translation: never saw Bird play except for a 2 min highlight vid :rolleyes:

[ThaRegul8r]

They played at a faster pace

People always automatically use this as an excuse, but that won't fly. Rebound rate is independent of pace, and Bird had a career TRB% of 14.5, which LeBron never reached in any year of his career, while also playing alongside Parish and McHale.

Bird was clearly the better rebounder.

[SHAQisGOAT]

If LeBron did something like the best stuff here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFeM6VnUK_Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjcGLGM3emE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H76dsMqo3s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H76dsMqo3s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGWCk4VoX6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUmz44FurLc


His fans would be running wild (even more), ESPN showing it all over the place for months and so on, sh!t would be even more ridiculous... IJS

[elementally morale]

What's next?
Kobe better than Jordan?
Eh.

[STATUTORY]

damn RG why u posting with such anger and vitriol recently?

problems in personal life? let's take this to the OTC

[StateOfMind12]

What's next?
Kobe better than Jordan?
Eh.
lol Kobe

Guy prol wasn't even better than KG at his peak.

[Raider007]

lol Kobe

Guy prol wasn't even better than KG at his peak.


Saying something like that says allot more about your basketball knowledge than anything else. If you had a clue, you would kill yourself.

[StateOfMind12]

Saying something like that says allot more about your basketball knowledge than anything else. If you had a clue, you would kill yourself.
Besides scoring and scoring less efficiently, what exactly did Kobe do better than KG at his peak?

[CavaliersFTW]

Besides scoring and scoring less efficiently, what exactly did Kobe do better than KG at his peak?
win?

[elementally morale]

lol Kobe

Guy prol wasn't even better than KG at his peak.


Your original comparison stinks on many levels.

1) As an individual player blahblah... well, it's a team game for a reason
2) Comparing players of different eras is diffficult... and mostly fruitless
3) Let's wait until LeBron retires, this talk is premature
4) Bird cca. 83-86 was something else, possibly the best prime I've ever seen (yes, including 89-92 Jordan, 92-95 Hakeem and 99-03 Shaq)


I'm not a fan of Bird by any means btw. Just a few years older than you.

[StateOfMind12]

win?
i'm sure that's not a team thing.

KG was stuck on garbage teams like Kobe had from 06-07 his entire career but KG kept playing through it.

Kobe? He cried and begged for a trade when he has a bad team. He is just a spoiled little brat.

KG in 04 was better than Kobe ever was


Deal with it.

[Raider007]

Besides scoring and scoring less efficiently, what exactly did Kobe do better than KG at his peak?


Here....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/


Your momma and public schools failed you but there is hope if you know how to read.

[StateOfMind12]

Here....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/


Your momma and public schools failed you but there is hope if you know how to read.
Ok, so I see that KG was far more productive than Kobe was and even then that doesn't tell you everything because KG is one of the greatest defenders of all-time while Kobe is one of the most overrated.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Your original comparison stinks on many levels.

1) As an individual player blahblah... well, it's a team game for a reason
2) Comparing players of different eras is diffficult... and mostly fruitless
3) Let's wait until LeBron retires, this talk is premature
4) Bird cca. 83-86 was something else, possibly the best prime I've ever seen (yes, including 89-92 Jordan, 92-95 Hakeem and 99-03 Shaq)


I'm not a fan of Bird by any means btw. Just a few years older than you.

Bird's prime/peak was just something unreal, I only put Shaq's prime above it.

[elementally morale]

Bird's prime/peak was just something unreal, I only put Shaq's prime above it.

I put Shaq's absolute peak above it. 2000 Shaq. And 95 Hakeem. And 92 Jordan.

But I can't name another player that had 3-4 years in a row that was better altogether than 83-86 Bird. Well, Wilt, possibly. But I haven't seen enough of that and nothing did I see when it actually happened.

[Round Mound]

Lebron James is Better than Bird at:

-Athletic Ability: Leaping, Quickness and Potence
-Penetrating, Driving to the Basket and Slashing
-Open Floor Finishing
-Ball Handling
-Offense Creator
-1 on 1 Defense
-Impact Player

Larry Bird is Better than James at:

-Far Range or Mid Range Shooting or Shooting Itself
-Post Game
-Catch and Shoot or Moving Around Screens to Shoot
-Rebounding: Learn To Read the Ball of th Backboard or Rim, Learn to Box Out and See Other Rebounders before You Jump
-Passing
-Team Defense
-Clutch Shooting
-Team Player

[Force]

I watched a prime Larry Bird. Unreal mind and instincts. Larry was better than Lebron at some things for sure but Lebron is so much better defensively, can't overlook that.

Larry at his best was the perfect player, as good as anybody who ever stepped on the court.

Last shot for the win and you can choose anybody in history to get the ball, who do you take? I flip a coin, Jordan on one side, and Larry Legend on the other.

[julizaver]

as individual players, prol not there in terms of career yet, but Lebron at his peak was better than Bird was at his peak.

Between 1984-86 Larry Bird was 3 times MVP and 2 times Finals MVP.
And from 1983 and 1988 he was something like a 27 ppg, 10 rpg, 7 apg, 2 spg player with over 0.500 from the field and over 0.400 beyond the arc.

If Lebron peak is now, this season he is 25.8 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.3 spg while he is shooting at his career best with 0.545 and 0.425. I intentionally missed the FTs, because it is Lebron's career low and it would be a little bit unfair to him (maybe he would improve his percentage till the end of the season).

If we leave the numbers and personal favor aside and I have watched Bird and it is very hard to say that "Lebron was better than Bird ever was". So it is more of Lebron trying to catch Bird then opposite.

And I am not a hater. For example If I was a coach I would take Lebron over Kobe (to start a team), although the later was one of my favorite players.

[LeBird]

:oldlol:

well since this idiot just said Bird is a better rebounder then Lebron is clearly a better rebounder since he is wrong about everything.

Bird is a double-digit rebounder over an entire career. This, despite having to share his rebounds with McHale and Parish. Bird was so good he went toe-to-toe with one of the greatest rebounders of all time (Moses Malone). Lebron could never do that.

Lebron also has similar assist numbers to Bird because he dominates the ball in almost every play. Bird never carried the ball possession after possession like a PG, as Lebron does. And yet, he still has about as many assists as Lebron.

Lebron's awesome stats are only on par with Bird's...despite the fact that Bird had to take a hit on his stats due to playing with such a great team for most of his career.

As you can tell from my name, I like Lebron. But peak Bird is arguably the greatest player the game has seen.

[Asukal]

You can't train for athleticism :lol ? I've learned to increase my vertical pretty well too(and you come off like lebron didn't train for his athleticism and he just with it or got it for free). Also you think bird would be using the same jump shot / stroke if he was lebron size. It's not that easy shooting at his mass, but he clearly improved and one of the greatest to ever finish in the paint.

Yah Lebron worked really hard to get that athleticism. If Bird worked hard enough he would have had Lebron's body also. :rolleyes:

[Blue&Orange]

Yah Lebron worked really hard to get that athleticism. If Bird worked hard enough he would have had Lebron's body also. :rolleyes:
Yep those PED's are really hard to take.

[po3try]

Yes? What retard thinks something else? Lebron just does more allround and is much more impactful-dominant player.

[La Frescobaldi]

Yes? What retard thinks something else? Lebron just does more allround and is much more impactful-dominant player.

Those that watched hoops back then possibly have a different point of view than people who say things like impactful, an atrocious misuse of English and a word which didn't exist when Bird played basketball. But then literacy and retardation may or may not be related.... right?

[Jailblazers7]

OP is the biggest tool on ISH. Makes threads like this and Harden is the best SG in the league just to try to sound bold and original.

[La Frescobaldi]

OP is the biggest tool on ISH. Makes threads like this and Harden is the best SG in the league just to try to sound bold and original.
I dunno if OP is the biggest tool on ISH.

But this thread is completely useless.

[tmacattack33]

Lebrons playing amazing right now. Undisputed number one player in the leagu with Durant playing pretty well.

I haven't seen peak bird play for a whole season at a time, so I won't say anything. But all I know is this current Lebron is playing historically great.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison. Lebron is really, really good. Truly historically dominant, imo, but I have to disagree. Lebron has some advantages such as athleticism and as a result, attacking the basket, ball-handling and overall defense(particularly man to man.) But Bird was easily the better pure shooter, a much better post player and a more skilled and crafty scorer overall as well as a vastly superior off the ball player. His left hand was incredible, and outside of scoring, he was the better passer and a much better rebounder. Lets not forget that Bird was an excellent help/team defender as well. His instincts were remarkable. Some will argue that Lebron is a better playmaker because of his ball-handling and ability off the dribble, but I disagree there as well. I think Bird had a greater impact on his teammates with his passing, and overall, he was more capable of dominating individually while allowing his teammates to play their games. I can't imagine Lebron playing his game and McHale still averaging 25+ as he did during the '86 and '88 playoffs or the '87 regular season.


Paul Pierce is better than Bird ever was as an individual player. How is this news?

Mark Jackson, is that you?

[Bigsmoke]

I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison. Lebron is really, really good. Truly historically dominant, imo, but I have to disagree. Lebron has some advantages such as athleticism and as a result, attacking the basket, ball-handling and overall defense(particularly man to man.) But Bird was easily the better pure shooter, a much better post player and a more skilled and crafty scorer overall as well as a vastly superior off the ball player. His left hand was incredible, and outside of scoring, he was the better passer and a much better rebounder. Lets not forget that Bird was an excellent help/team defender as well. His instincts were remarkable. Some will argue that Lebron is a better playmaker because of his ball-handling and ability off the dribble, but I disagree there as well. I think Bird had a greater impact on his teammates with his passing, and overall, he was more capable of dominating individually while allowing his teammates to play their games. I can't imagine Lebron playing his game and McHale still averaging 25+ as he did during the '86 and '88 playoffs or the '87 regular season.



Mark Jackson, is that you?

*looks for RG's new account*

[ZaaaaaH]

as individual players, prol not there in terms of career yet, but Lebron at his peak was better than Bird was at his peak.

Little Kids like you care about Peaks too dam much :facepalm


Ask the Players and Coachs its about Career.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Little Kids like you care about Peaks too dam much :facepalm


Ask the Players and Coachs its about Career.

I disagree, I'm not saying a player should be primarily judged by their peak, but I like to judge them by their primes. A player's best 4-5 seasons is how I like to remember them, and I think it's a much easier, more accurate way to judge the player. Then you can talk about what they could do as players rather than reading accomplishments off a sheet of paper. To me, if you weren't better than a guy, you simply weren't better. Doesn't matter that Karl Malone's longevity is pretty much unmatched he's simply not particularly close to the player guys like Shaq, Bird, Hakeem or Magic were.

[Bandito]

Bird is a double-digit rebounder over an entire career. This, despite having to share his rebounds with McHale and Parish. Bird was so good he went toe-to-toe with one of the greatest rebounders of all time (Moses Malone). Lebron could never do that.

Lebron also has similar assist numbers to Bird because he dominates the ball in almost every play. Bird never carried the ball possession after possession like a PG, as Lebron does. And yet, he still has about as many assists as Lebron.

Lebron's awesome stats are only on par with Bird's...despite the fact that Bird had to take a hit on his stats due to playing with such a great team for most of his career.

As you can tell from my name, I like Lebron. But peak Bird is arguably the greatest player the game has seen.:applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

Bird is a double-digit rebounder over an entire career. This, despite having to share his rebounds with McHale and Parish. Bird was so good he went toe-to-toe with one of the greatest rebounders of all time (Moses Malone). Lebron could never do that.

Lebron also has similar assist numbers to Bird because he dominates the ball in almost every play. Bird never carried the ball possession after possession like a PG, as Lebron does. And yet, he still has about as many assists as Lebron.

Lebron's awesome stats are only on par with Bird's...despite the fact that Bird had to take a hit on his stats due to playing with such a great team for most of his career.

As you can tell from my name, I like Lebron. But peak Bird is arguably the greatest player the game has seen.
:applause:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyd8kgAjMn1qma1obo1_250.gif

/thread

[UtahJazzFan88]

OP is the biggest tool on ISH. Makes threads like this and Harden is the best SG in the league just to try to sound bold and original.

OP banned again, when is his stateofmind account going to get banned permanently?

[red1]

GOAT small forward is going to come down to these two, both will be top 6 when all is said and done. Lebron may never win 3 rings but all-time rankings will favour him in the end.

[SpecialQue]

OP makes Oscar Wilde look like Teddy Roosevelt.

[Jailblazers7]

OP makes Oscar Wilde look like Teddy Roosevelt.

This might be the most random thing I've ever read on ISH. :applause:

[LeBird]

I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison. Lebron is really, really good. Truly historically dominant, imo, but I have to disagree.


Yeh, this. Lebron is definitely a truly special talent. People shouldn't take it as a slight towards Bird that the comparison arises. And the Lebron fans similarly shouldn't be slighted...Bird was that special too.

[Nash]

Well, Larry Bird himself thinks Lebron is better than him since he has said in plenty of interviews that he thinks Lebron is up there with Jordan.

[Micku]

I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison. Lebron is really, really good. Truly historically dominant, imo, but I have to disagree. Lebron has some advantages such as athleticism and as a result, attacking the basket, ball-handling and overall defense(particularly man to man.) But Bird was easily the better pure shooter, a much better post player and a more skilled and crafty scorer overall as well as a vastly superior off the ball player. His left hand was incredible, and outside of scoring, he was the better passer and a much better rebounder. Lets not forget that Bird was an excellent help/team defender as well. His instincts were remarkable. Some will argue that Lebron is a better playmaker because of his ball-handling and ability off the dribble, but I disagree there as well. I think Bird had a greater impact on his teammates with his passing, and overall, he was more capable of dominating individually while allowing his teammates to play their games. I can't imagine Lebron playing his game and McHale still averaging 25+ as he did during the '86 and '88 playoffs or the '87 regular season.


This reflects my opinion on the matter.

Pretty much I think Bird is the better offensive player than Lebron because of his ability to play off the ball, which allows DJ, Mchale, and others to get their shots, and being able to make right plays.

LeBron has better defense and is versatile. So, while I don't think he has more impact than Bird on the offensive end, he does have more impact on the defensive end.

I think LeBron is close, but I do think Bird impact the game a bit better. Their play styles are completely different, but both could impact the game greatly.

[LeBird]

^They're two greats who could very easily play with each other because of their contrasting ways.

[sixer6ad]

I watched Bird in his prime and lived up close and personal with LBJ during his prime (still occurring). Some differences here between these players:

- LBJ on TV nearly every game, and Bird was on TV occasionally. This contributed to the legendary status. Every time Larry was on, it was a special occasion, and he hardly ever disappointed. LBJ is on so much that we see it all, and it puts him up for persecution more than Larry.

- Larry won a title in his second year with the Celtics - that instantly earned him the "winner" title. LBJ made his team better, but did not win a title until Year 9. Because of this, Larry was deemed a winner his entire career, while LBJ couldn't win a title.

- Larry hit daggers his entire career and was rarely emotional. Maybe a fist pump here or there, but hardly any emotion at all. LBJ has played the Drama card from the moment he arrived. It's been fun, and he's amazing, but how many times has he fallen, been hit in the eye, done the chalk, had cramps, gave the stare, etc. Two different players emotionally.

- Both players have made inferior players better. My Lord, the 07 Cavs team that went to the Finals had Boobie, Sasha, Drew Gooden, and Z starting with LBJ. Larry made players like Jerry Sichting and Danny Ainge look golden.

- Better finisher and athlete? Duh.

- More daggers into opponents' hearts? Actually pretty close.

- Larry - 3 titles and LBJ 1.

- Larry played in the best decade I have ever seen. The Lakers/Celtics battles makes any of today's rivalries look like rec league. I'm not saying that as a put down, it's just my opinion. Because of the intensity, guys would NEVER think of leaving their teams. Today's stars are all about what's next. We loved LBJ here, but it was ALWAYS about where he would play next. Looming free agency for every star produces the same angst. It wasn't that way during Larry's time.

- Best overall basketball player? LBJ has been close to my favorite at one time because we had never had that athlete before in Cleveland. During a period when he was at his height here in c-town, I would be hard pressed to say that he was "better" than Larry Bird. It would be a big icon for him to pass.

[Pointguard]

I have Bird as better.

If Lebron hung out in the post a bit more its possible to change.

To me Lebron is hard to compare to anybody because he's half front court half back court type of player, while being dominant at the same time. If you compared Shaq and David Robinson the way many of you now compare Lebron/Bird, Robinson would blow Shaq away because he's more skilled, fundamental, was more versatile, more athletic, more rebounds, more blocks, more steals, quicker, faster, etc. Same with Lebron and Bird to a degree. It's not a comparison that could be made easily by a number of different things slanting in one guys favor.

Bird was a better rebounder. Lebron was a better scorer. Passing is up in the air. Lebron's a better defender. But ultimately it was Bird's blend into the team concept that was the killer for me. I don't have an obvious price for it except that I saw it.

But Lebron now, mature and relaxed, can be the best all around player ever if not already. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Lebron has a couple of years where he shot the 3 ball at a higher clip than Bird or Dirk ever did. His shooting this year improved tremendously just because he's more relaxed now. Next Summer he will have time to work on his shot.

While people are saying Lebron was more ball dominant he did take less shots and scored more despite not being the foul shooter Bird was. The game was also more wide open in Bird's era. Bird was finished product that had a great understanding of the game. Lebron just isn't that at this time.

[Whoah10115]

Those that watched hoops back then possibly have a different point of view than people who say things like impactful, an atrocious misuse of English and a word which didn't exist when Bird played basketball. But then literacy and retardation may or may not be related.... right?



I have actually used it once here...I was a co-English major so I know it's wrong but it's the internets.

[Kiddlovesnets]

This... Lebron is great but he still needs to win 2 more rings to stand in the same category of top 5 players like Bird and Magic. I do agree that CP3 is already better than Kidd and Nash ever were though.

[Whoah10115]

Paul Pierce is better than Bird ever was as an individual player. How is this news?



Paul Pierce is one of my 10 favorite players of all-time, but I just threw up in my mouth.



Then again, you think McGrady was on par with your hero so that was maybe a waste of vomit.

[Whoah10115]

OP makes Oscar Wilde look like Teddy Roosevelt.



Oscar was Wilde...Teddy would just take your cake.


I don't know what either of us is talking about.

[ralph_i_el]

both were the best player in the league 3 times?

[TheBigVeto]

I do agree that CP3 is already better than Kidd and Nash ever were though.

No dude, not yet.

[Euroleague]

LeBron isn't even half as good as Bird was.

[ZaaaaaH]

I watched a prime Larry Bird. Unreal mind and instincts. Larry was better than Lebron at some things for sure but Lebron is so much better defensively, can't overlook that.

Larry at his best was the perfect player, as good as anybody who ever stepped on the court.

Last shot for the win and you can choose anybody in history to get the ball, who do you take? I flip a coin, Jordan on one side, and Larry Legend on the other.



:applause: Thank you for mentioning about his instincts. These Young LeBrownie Fans have no Idea what instinct is with these Weak minded Modern era kids.

[TheMarkMadsen]

as individual players, prol not there in terms of career yet, but Lebron at his peak was better than Bird was at his peak.


You no life no dlck havin man boy ass grabbin feggit. Jackin off just to eat your own *** ewww your gross. Askin little boys to touch your dingy and then having them fart in your eye. Eww you're gross you feggit

[dunksby]

RG beastin in this thread.

[ILLsmak]

Well, Larry Bird himself thinks Lebron is better than him since he has said in plenty of interviews that he thinks Lebron is up there with Jordan.

Nah you wrong there...

Anyone who thinks Larry thought MJ was better than him is dumb. You can't be a player like Bird and think people are better than you. You give out respect. He said something like Magic and MJ were the guys he'd actually pay to watch... but there's no way he actually believed anyone was a better, more capable basketball player than himself.

-Smak

[Nash]

Nah you wrong there...

Anyone who thinks Larry thought MJ was better than him is dumb. You can't be a player like Bird and think people are better than you. You give out respect. He said something like Magic and MJ were the guys he'd actually pay to watch... but there's no way he actually believed anyone was a better, more capable basketball player than himself.

-Smak
He said up there with Jordan.

[Whoah10115]

He said up there with Jordan.


Where do you think he'd rank Steve Nash?

[Micku]

Nah you wrong there...

Anyone who thinks Larry thought MJ was better than him is dumb. You can't be a player like Bird and think people are better than you. You give out respect. He said something like Magic and MJ were the guys he'd actually pay to watch... but there's no way he actually believed anyone was a better, more capable basketball player than himself.

-Smak

Magic and Bird both do stuff like that. They always humble themselves when talk about great stars of today with their individual play. But when you start to say which is the best team of all time, then you start to see a glimpse of their ego/pride of their team. They would instantly say their team is better no matter what the comparison it seems, but they would explain why plus including their contribution.

But Magic said Bird was better than him. Bird said Magic is better than him and etc. That's what they do. But when you start talking about teams, then they get their fangs out.

[plowking]

The old heads on this board are hilarious - "Bird is a better rebounder, check the stats"

Then you mention Lebron is the better passer and to check the stats... Doesn't matter according to them. LOL.

Bird and Lebron is close in terms of peak play, but Bird is one of the best ever, so its not a knock. Lebron is most definitely better than Magic at his peak though. Its hilarious when people try to play it off otherwise.

[Micku]

The old heads on this board are hilarious - "Bird is a better rebounder, check the stats"

Then you mention Lebron is the better passer and to check the stats... Doesn't matter according to them. LOL.

Bird and Lebron is close in terms of peak play, but Bird is one of the best ever, so its not a knock. Lebron is most definitely better than Magic at his peak though. Its hilarious when people try to play it off otherwise.

That's because assist =/= passing skills. John Stockton has more assists than Magic Johnson. Is he the better passer? Not so much. Plus you have to take into account that Bird played more off the ball than LeBron. LeBron have the ball in his hands a lot more than Bird.

Both are great passers though.

[Whoah10115]

The old heads on this board are hilarious - "Bird is a better rebounder, check the stats"

Then you mention Lebron is the better passer and to check the stats... Doesn't matter according to them. LOL.

Bird and Lebron is close in terms of peak play, but Bird is one of the best ever, so its not a knock. Lebron is most definitely better than Magic at his peak though. Its hilarious when people try to play it off otherwise.



:cry:

[ZaaaaaH]

That's because assist =/= passing skills. John Stockton has more assists than Magic Johnson. Is he the better passer? Not so much. Plus you have to take into account that Bird played more off the ball than LeBron. LeBron have the ball in his hands a lot more than Bird.

Both are great passers though.


Ether

[KevinNYC]

Give Bird Lebron's athleticism and there would be no discussion on who is the better player. :facepalm

Give Bird Lebron's athleticism and he may never have developed into the player he was.

One of the reason that Bird developed his arsenal of moves and fakes and facility with both his left and right hand is he was always a step slower than the other players. This didn't happen when he got to the NBA, he happened on courts in French Lick. If he could just elevate over everyone and get to the rim at will, he might might not have worked as hard as he did on his fundamentals.

The thing with Bird was he was an offensive mismatch for virtually every team, too big for the quick guys and too quick for the big guys and his well-rounded game meant he could adjust to whoever was guarding him. Very few quys of his size had his skills previously. John Havilcek was 6'5" Given that it's 30 years since Bird entered the NBA, he would probably need to be taller to create such mismatches, like closer to Dirk's size.

[KevinNYC]

This is not even up for debate. Bird was the better rebounder. Dude outrebounded prime Moses Malone in a playoff series, for crying out loud.

If you're talking about the 1981 Finals, Bird did not outrebound Malone. Bird definitely brought it on the boards and averaged 15.3 RPG that series, but Malone was doing work as well and averaged 16.3 RPG. Bird's rebounding is the main reason his coach expected him to win the Finals MVP even though he had some bad shooting games.

[SpecialQue]

Oscar was Wilde...Teddy would just take your cake.


I don't know what either of us is talking about.

I was implying that OP's femininity was such that it made the notoriously gay writer appear as butch as our most famously butch ex-president.

[tpols]

The old heads on this board are hilarious - "Bird is a better rebounder, check the stats"

Then you mention Lebron is the better passer and to check the stats... Doesn't matter according to them. LOL.

Bird and Lebron is close in terms of peak play, but Bird is one of the best ever, so its not a knock. Lebron is most definitely better than Magic at his peak though. Its hilarious when people try to play it off otherwise.
Aren't you the same person who was arguing with me back in 09 or 10 that dwill is a better passer than jkidd based on higher apg numbers(which deron did have with the jaz back then) ? Yup that was definitely you. LOL please step away from all bball convo. :lol

[Whoah10115]

I was implying that OP's femininity was such that it made the notoriously gay writer appear as butch as our most famously butch ex-president.


:coleman:

[Whoah10115]

Aren't you the same person who was arguing with me back in 09 or 10 that dwill is a better passer than jkidd based on higher apg numbers? Yup that was definitely you. LOL please stop p away from all bball convo. :lol



He knows even more about soccer...certainly a lot more than I do...



:roll:

[ballinhun8]

Bookmarked so I can neg dumb OP.

[TMT]

Monumental advantage goes to Lebron for being African-American and everyone knows it. Obviously if Bird was black and Lebron was white it would be the other way around.

dumb thread